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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Agreed. Neither am I, but my own perspective evolves in unpredictable ways. For example:
Speaking in the 100 % hypothetical - for obvious reasons given the constraints - how would people feel if NDSU somehow got a FB-only invite to the Sunbelt, if say Mo State was a full conference member?
Again, 100 % hypothetical, so don't go postal on me please.
Back in the height of the realignment chaos when it looked like an invite was a possibility, I offhand mentioned that if the Big 12 invited us we should be very cautious. I was immediately jumped on, when what I really meant was if the B12 was reduced to inviting ANY team directly from FCS that something terrible was going on behind the scenes and they were on the verge of collapse. Similarly, I don't think we can separate a Sun Belt invite from what happened to make them look halfway across the country at us. If the MAC had invited NDSU/SDSU or CUSA invited 5-7 midwest schools that's pretty easy to understand. The problem with pretty much any other hypothetical is 'why?'
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
Just a different way of saying the same thing. Still can't remember anybody actually saying avoid FBS at any cost.
Apparently still not making it clear enough for you.
The thought is that there are fans that don't want to go FBS regardless of cost. They want "the right" scenario.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
Back in the height of the realignment chaos when it looked like an invite was a possibility, I offhand mentioned that if the Big 12 invited us we should be very cautious. I was immediately jumped on, when what I really meant was if the B12 was reduced to inviting ANY team directly from FCS that something terrible was going on behind the scenes and they were on the verge of collapse. Similarly, I don't think we can separate a Sun Belt invite from what happened to make them look halfway across the country at us. If the MAC had invited NDSU/SDSU or CUSA invited 5-7 midwest schools that's pretty easy to understand. The problem with pretty much any other hypothetical is 'why?'
Why? Better FB competition, obviously, and more P5 games. Play JMU on a regular basis. Any FBS move for NDSU is going to involve travel.
Sunbelt is trending up and seems very stable, so I don't think your concern is legitimate.
I get the impression that being with the other Dakota schools is very important to you. Would you say that's accurate?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Why? Better FB competition, obviously, and more P5 games. Play JMU on a regular basis. Any FBS move for NDSU is going to involve travel.
Sunbelt is trending up and seems very stable, so I don't think your concern is legitimate.
I get the impression that being with the other Dakota schools is very important to you. Would you say that's accurate?
I absolutely want to stay with regional partner(s). History has shown that's the only path to success. I'm fine with that only being SDSU, though I wouldn't be surprised if state politics force us to stay with UND and SDSU with USD.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
You sure about that? ;)
Broadly speaking, it seems to me that the lefties want to stay FCS and the righties want to move up, although there are obvious exceptions
What does the program want? What do the former players want? I’d put more weight on that. Fans are fickle, especially spoiled ones
This is not remotely political. And for what its worth, even "lefty" types in ND are largely pretty tame.
Honestly, I've never seen the board more unified on wanting to move up. The fights on here 7-8 years ago were wild. Basically everyone wants to move up. The disagreements are pretty minor.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
I absolutely want to stay with regional partner(s). History has shown that's the only path to success. I'm fine with that only being SDSU, though I wouldn't be surprised if state politics force us to stay with UND and SDSU with USD.
Only? Sample size of 1? Bold statement bro
As for the bolded, I think that's what some are hoping for, but I don't see how they could stop NDSU from moving up
I understand you better now, though
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
ByeSonBusiness
This is not remotely political. And for what its worth, even "lefty" types in ND are largely pretty tame.
Honestly, I've never seen the board more unified on wanting to move up. The fights on here 7-8 years ago were wild. Basically everyone wants to move up. The disagreements are pretty minor.
Thanks for the insight. I don't see it myself, TBH, but I'm glad to hear it and I'll take your word.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Thanks for the insight. I don't see it myself, TBH, but I'm glad to hear it and I'll take your word.
I think he’s right. Just because a lot of people want lakes to turn his volume nob down six notches and stop with the ridiculous character attacks doesn’t mean they’re FBS forever.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
I absolutely want to stay with regional partner(s). History has shown that's the only path to success. I'm fine with that only being SDSU, though I wouldn't be surprised if state politics force us to stay with UND and SDSU with USD.
So that's the new strategy, force us to stay with the rest. You truly are FCS Forever because there's no way USD and UND move, and it sounds like SDSU doesn't want to move either.
Do you remember when USD and UND didn't want to move to D1? If we had been held back by them back then where would we be now? For a person who claims to not be an FCS Forever, you've sure shown that you really are in that mode.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Only? Sample size of 1? Bold statement bro
As for the bolded, I think that's what some are hoping for, but I don't see how they could stop NDSU from moving up
I understand you better now, though
If by only you mean the partners needed for success, just compare the xDSU path vs UND. Look which side USD chose and how they've done. Travel partners are the gold standard for conference membership, not sure why you're calling this a sample size of 1. As far as FBS moves, look at UConn, UMass, FAMU and tell me all jumps are successful.
As for politics, the ND SBoHE absolutely has the ability to stop NDSU jumping. They absolutely have veto power over something like this. I have no idea what their position is on it, but if they informally told NDSU athletics they can't go FBS without UND then we're stuck for the time being.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
NDSU1980
So that's the new strategy, force us to stay with the rest. You truly are FCS Forever because there's no way USD and UND move, and it sounds like SDSU doesn't want to move either.
Do you remember when USD and UND didn't want to move to D1? If we had been held back by them back then where would we be now? For a person who claims to not be an FCS Forever, you've sure shown that you really are in that mode.
FCS Forever doesn't exist. Just because I don't currently see a path to success doesn't mean I want us to stay FCS. That's something your group has completely failed to understand. You're willing to destroy the rest of NDSU athletics just to have your ego stroked. Remember how we went D1 with a close partnership with SDSU? It was an amazing success for both of us. Partners exist for a reason and we need them.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
FCS Forever doesn't exist. Just because I don't currently see a path to success doesn't mean I want us to stay FCS. That's something your group has completely failed to understand. You're willing to destroy the rest of NDSU athletics just to have your ego stroked. Remember how we went D1 with a close partnership with SDSU? It was an amazing success for both of us. Partners exist for a reason and we need them.
I agree with everything except needing SDSU. If we have a good opportunity to move and they arent invited then its BYE as far as Im concerned.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
https://footballscoop.com/news/map-s...tball-programs
This is why small population states aren't FBS. This analysis is 4 years old. The reality is most likely, North Dakota should reduce the number of College football teams (substantially) to fund a team at the highest level. The other alternatives are to stay as is, or move the state.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
FCS Forever doesn't exist. Just because I don't currently see a path to success doesn't mean I want us to stay FCS. That's something your group has completely failed to understand. You're willing to destroy the rest of NDSU athletics just to have your ego stroked. Remember how we went D1 with a close partnership with SDSU? It was an amazing success for both of us. Partners exist for a reason and we need them.
How could we possibly do any more damage to mens basketball by going FBS??? The program is already in the dumpster. And again, just because we go FBS doesn't mean we are switching all sports to a different conference. You FCS For The Next 30 Years guys just jump from one tangent to another.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
If by only you mean the partners needed for success, just compare the xDSU path vs UND. Look which side USD chose and how they've done. Travel partners are the gold standard for conference membership, not sure why you're calling this a sample size of 1. As far as FBS moves, look at UConn, UMass, FAMU and tell me all jumps are successful.
As for politics, the ND SBoHE absolutely has the ability to stop NDSU jumping. They absolutely have veto power over something like this. I have no idea what their position is on it, but if they informally told NDSU athletics they can't go FBS without UND then we're stuck for the time being.
Sample size of 1 as in NDSU has only jumped once, and the hypothetical scenario I listed was FB-only. But never mind, I get your angle now ;)
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
NDSU1980
How could we possibly do any more damage to mens basketball by going FBS??? The program is already in the dumpster. And again, just because we go FBS doesn't mean we are switching all sports to a different conference. You FCS For The Next 30 Years guys just jump from one tangent to another.
Cause and effect. Do you think our MBB is good enough for an FBS conference to want us? I've repeated stated we should improve BB. I completely disagree on FB only invites, the NCAA rules discourage that and there's only 2 FB affiliates in all of the G5. I don't see us being the 3rd.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
We don't need a partner at all for football only, other sports need them but football has grown beyond regional rivals. All the regional schools also have virtually no ability to go FBS....Either they don't have the resources or the ambition to make the move. This whole thing is a creation by the FCS forever crowd to anchor the program down. The only thing we need is a conference, indy football is not going to be feasible.
The best thing for other sports is to have the school's cash cow to be best positioned in the world of college athletics. So if going FBS is best for the football program, the other sports are going to have to adjust and grow.
Trying to anchor down football in the dumpster fire that is the FCS may just lower the tide for all programs at the school, letting hockey and basketball schools that are our regional peers guide what our football program should do is also a horrific strategy that is what crippled us in 90s. If SDSU wants to go FBS with us great but if they don't, then goodbye.
If politicians try to block NDSU from doing what is best for its marquee program and the state's marquee sports team....they best be prepared to reap what they have sown at the ballot box. Which is exactly why they won't touch it.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
Cause and effect. Do you think our MBB is good enough for an FBS conference to want us? I've repeated stated we should improve BB. I completely disagree on FB only invites, the NCAA rules discourage that and there's only 2 FB affiliates in all of the G5. I don't see us being the 3rd.
So we can't be an FBS invite because the football team is too good for a lot of G5 conferences and we can't get an FBS invite because the basketball team isn't good enough.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
56BISON73
I agree with everything except needing SDSU. If we have a good opportunity to move and they arent invited then its BYE as far as Im concerned.
Totally agree. While partnering with SDSU was the absolute perfect strategy for escaping DII, it would be completely unnecessary here. Hell, I'd even say we might want to leave them behind in order to further dominate regional recruiting and regional press. Remember, back then it was about reclassification for ALL sports. Here, we're just talking about conferences, etc.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
We gotta cheer for big 12 to hurry and take Boise...then go all out pushing for that MWC spot
NDSU WILL GO ALONE. then we use the local colleges as our minor leagues
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
We gotta cheer for big 12 to hurry and take Boise...then go all out pushing for that MWC spot
NDSU WILL GO ALONE. then we use the local colleges as our minor leagues
We are spinning our wheels on this. We are not likely going to be invited to the MWC from FCS. We need to be FBS first. They would barely want us regardless. If we want to be FBS (and we should want this), we need to pursue any FBS pathway that materializes.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
I absolutely want to stay with regional partner(s). History has shown that's the only path to success. I'm fine with that only being SDSU, though I wouldn't be surprised if state politics force us to stay with UND and SDSU with USD.
I'd be onboard with SBC + Missouri St, but don't think it will happen for precisely this reason.
SBC's strength comes from their regional rivalries, and their expansion choices were driven by that. They have a relatively tight footprint.
I'd also be ok with MAC if the admin evaluated it and decided its a net benefit. Its just feels more like a temporary home than a great long term home.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
We gotta cheer for big 12 to hurry and take Boise...then go all out pushing for that MWC spot
NDSU WILL GO ALONE. then we use the local colleges as our minor leagues
MWC would be a great fit for us.
Independent would be a disaster. Ask UMass, UConn, etc.
We don't have Notre Dame or BYU level resources to make it work, and even those schools are now affiliating with conferences.
Notre Dame is an ACC associate, and BYU is going B12.
Independents are mostly locked out of postseason bowls and CFP money. That hurts a lot.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigHorns
I'd be onboard with SBC + Missouri St, but don't think it will happen for precisely this reason.
SBC's strength comes from their regional rivalries, and their expansion choices were driven by that. They have a relatively tight footprint.
I'd also be ok with MAC if the admin evaluated it and decided its a net benefit. Its just feels more like a temporary home than a great long term home.
As much as I don't like the MAC and do not consider it a step up, I would be in favor of it as I think it could be a stepping stone to a better conference. The MWC is obviously the best choice out there if they'll ever take us (best choice as the Big 12 isn't gonna be offerin')*
*And the B10 is too much of a step down
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
TransAmBison
As much as I don't like the MAC and do not consider it a step up, I would be in favor of it as I think it could be a stepping stone to a better conference. The MWC is obviously the best choice out there if they'll ever take us (best choice as the Big 12 isn't gonna be offerin')*
*And the B10 is too much of a step down
I'll echo these exact sentiments plus add in CUSA. We need to take whatever, where ever, however. Take what we can, dominate and then move up. That was how the the FCS move was done. We went to the Great West, which wasn't a good fit but it was what we had and made it work. Dominate and move up.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Why do you guys never mention the AAC? Lots of schools in your same time zone. Long term deal with ESPN. A bunch of bowl games. Makes far more sense to me than the MW..I think the AAC would invite you right away too..The MW won't be doing anything for 4 years..
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
MWC
Why do you guys never mention the AAC? Lots of schools in your same time zone. Long term deal with ESPN. A bunch of bowl games. Makes far more sense to me than the MW..I think the AAC would invite you right away too..The MW won't be doing anything for 4 years..
Me too. Apparently its aiming too high for the cynics on here though. NDSU can't be that good, they say
Whose your team in the Mountain West?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
MWC
Why do you guys never mention the AAC? Lots of schools in your same time zone. Long term deal with ESPN. A bunch of bowl games. Makes far more sense to me than the MW..I think the AAC would invite you right away too..The MW won't be doing anything for 4 years..
One of us has ….
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigHorns
I'd be onboard with SBC + Missouri St, but don't think it will happen for precisely this reason.
SBC's strength comes from their regional rivalries, and their expansion choices were driven by that. They have a relatively tight footprint.
I'd also be ok with MAC if the admin evaluated it and decided its a net benefit. Its just feels more like a temporary home than a great long term home.
Good point. It's really too bad our regional rivals have no real shot at FBS. I'm not sure they will in 10 years, either, given trends, and waiting seems fraught with risk.
The Footballscoop article someone posted a few pages back sums it up perfectly. Creates a challenge but not an insurmountable one for NDSU FB IMO
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Professorbum
We are spinning our wheels on this. We are not likely going to be invited to the MWC from FCS. We need to be FBS first. They would barely want us regardless. If we want to be FBS (and we should want this), we need to pursue any FBS pathway that materializes.
Agreed... that's why CUSA/AAC should be options as we to pursue..
the problem is.... OUR ADMIN WONT PURSUE ...OR SOLICIT OR GLADHAND OR SEND FLOWERS..
if 1 leader (besides me) would take the torch and run with it...he'd be a hero and everyone would follow & jump on board.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
CAS4127
One of us has ….
and I agree with you. Academically, NDSU is a much better fit for the AAC than the Sunbelt, FWIW. That’s just the truth. Sorry if it offends anyone ...
Travel would be easier in the AAC too, IMO, but FB probably a little below the MWC. Have to see how the new landscape evolves …
So get after it Dr. Cook :) Goodluck and Godspeed
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Just give me a conference invite, get us a ticket out of the FCS dumpster fire. I can deal with the CUSA dumpster fire because it is a ladder out of an even bigger dumpster fire that we currently reside in. Like I have said before, if we waited for the ideal situation to leave DII we would still be in DII right now.
I don't get the regional obsession some of our fans have. These schools are not really our athletic peers, they are basketball and hockey driven schools. Their vision does not mesh with ours but because of distance I guess we should let them drive what happens to one of the most successful football programs in the country.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
...OR SOLICIT OR GLADHAND OR SEND FLOWERS...
Flowers are big for conference invites?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
Agreed... that's why CUSA/AAC should be options as we to pursue..
the problem is.... OUR ADMIN WONT PURSUE ...OR SOLICIT OR GLADHAND OR SEND FLOWERS..
if 1 leader (besides me) would take the torch and run with it...he'd be a hero and everyone would follow & jump on board.
Dude, you have no idea what our admin will or won't do. Stop being a dumbass.
Also, you are not, nor will you ever be, a "leader" in this discussion. Stop being delusional. Being a dick isn't leading.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
... but FB probably a little below the MWC.
You're crazy if you think that.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Answer Guy
Flowers are big for conference invites?
LOL only you would fall for the sarcasm.. But Maybe it's time to woo the secretaries.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
OrygunBison
Dude, you have no idea what our admin will or won't do. Stop being a dumbass.
Also, you are not, nor will you ever be, a "leader" in this discussion. Stop being delusional. Being a dick isn't leading.
they haven't done SHIT. dean has been retiring for 5 years now & matt is happy to be here and would never upset the gift handed him to get out of shithole stony brook.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
OrygunBison
You're crazy if you think that.
Oh, I'm definitely crazy
But I'm taking the Big 12 departees out of the AAC, even though they haven't left yet, and leaving BSU and SDSU in the MWC
Plus, I want our MWC buddy to keep coming back here and saying nice things about NDSU
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
NDSUstudent
Just give me a conference invite, get us a ticket out of the FCS dumpster fire. I can deal with the CUSA dumpster fire because it is a ladder out of an even bigger dumpster fire that we currently reside in. Like I have said before, if we waited for the ideal situation to leave DII we would still be in DII right now.
I don't get the regional obsession some of our fans have. These schools are not really our athletic peers, they are basketball and hockey driven schools. Their vision does not mesh with ours but because of distance I guess we should let them drive what happens to one of the most successful football programs in the country.
^^^^^^THIS. It's just so refreshing to see that the vast majority here get it.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
Agreed... that's why CUSA/AAC should be options as we to pursue..
the problem is.... OUR ADMIN WONT PURSUE ...OR SOLICIT OR GLADHAND OR SEND FLOWERS..
if 1 leader (besides me) would take the torch and run with it...he'd be a hero and everyone would follow & jump on board.
If you were a leader you wouldnt have had to be forced to give to Team makers.
IOW you're nothing more than an immature over winded internet gas bag.
