A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

No.


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Wife and I were just discussing which day we were going to the Pecan Lodge .

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Wife and I were just discussing which day we were going to the Pecan Lodge .

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Just missed you last time. Flight was tardy.

Enjoy.


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Pecan Lodge is FBS level

what's a lie? that NDSU should be FBS?

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

NDSU is now 149-12 since dynasty...

150-12 after 9th title.

I remember fighting with some on here in 2013 saying. "what we gonna do, win 10 titles and 150 games, THEN you'll move up?"

well. we have reached that point

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And go where???
Apparently not the Mountain West.
The loudest FOBer (Fbs Or Bust) says this

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Quote Originally Posted by El_Chapo

yea lets face facts with the Mountain West:

Colorado State got their shit handed to them by US and SDSU, they wont invite us
Wyoming Bohl won't invite us because he knows we are a better program
Boise State doesn't want anyone with a "novelty" sharing the limelight.
UNLV and the other shit teams know that NDSU is better than them.
Fresno/San Jose/Hawaii/San Diego don't want to fly to Fargo

so F em.

CUSA/AAC into BIG 12 in 10 years works for me!

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Oh yeah there it is CUSA/AAC :)

Reusse weighs in. Sort of …

https://www.startribune.com/is-it-be...ond/600128479/

I would call it the typical curmudgeon response, the kind that seems to go over well up here with some folks, and the kind that Patrick is renowned for.

It’s not that hard. If NDSU gets an attractive FB-only FBS offer that is an upgrade in competition and $$, they will jump, but they will have to go out and find one. It’s not going to fall in your lap. In the meantime – while you are working on that – what you have is actually pretty nice. I’m guessing this is how the AD views things.

The thing that puzzles me is why FB-only is so shunned when FB clearly drives the bus. They’re called FBS conferences, right?

The real problem is that the FBS just sort of does whatever the hell it wants with no logic or consequences, based on chasing cash. They need leadership and universal standards. My opinion is that the 12-team playoff model will force that change, once again because of $$.

Take the top 84 in Sagarin, for example, and make 7 divisions: the P5 and G2, and introduce regional relegation.

Problem is the P5 schools have grown used to getting all the cash they can carry without really doing anything for it.



As much as you all hate him, MM gets it - https://twitter.com/McFeely_Inforum/...48415455043588
Zimmer does not apparently, but I hear the bunnies can't afford the move yet, so what would you expect.

Winning your conference in FBS becomes the equivalent of going to Frisco. It's a reset in how you view things. I expect that it would be much more challenging to win the MWC than another FCS chipper in TX.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Reusse weighs in. Sort of …

https://www.startribune.com/is-it-be...ond/600128479/

I would call it the typical curmudgeon response, the kind that seems to go over well up here with some folks, and the kind that Patrick is renowned for.

It’s not that hard. If NDSU gets an attractive FB-only FBS offer that is an upgrade in competition and $$, they will jump, but they will have to go out and find one. It’s not going to fall in your lap. In the meantime – while you are working on that – what you have is actually pretty nice. I’m guessing this is how the AD views things.

The thing that puzzles me is why FB-only is so shunned when FB clearly drives the bus. They’re called FBS conferences, right?

The real problem is that the FBS just sort of does whatever the hell it wants with no logic or consequences, based on chasing cash. They need leadership and universal standards. My opinion is that the 12-team playoff model will force that change, once again because of $$.

Take the top 84 in Sagarin, for example, and make 7 divisions: the P5 and G2, and introduce regional relegation.

Problem is the P5 schools have grown used to getting all the cash they can carry without really doing anything for it.



As much as you all hate him, MM gets it - https://twitter.com/McFeely_Inforum/...48415455043588
Zimmer does not apparently, but I hear the bunnies can't afford the move yet, so what would you expect.

Winning your conference in FBS becomes the equivalent of going to Frisco. It's a reset in how you view things. I expect that it would be much more challenging to win the MWC than another FCS chipper in TX.

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The question is: is there a better setup for the P5 where they would make more money than they do now, and could they get away with it?

The answer is: they might be able to make some more money, but they’d get their pants sued off, at a minimum incur hundreds of millions in legal fees without knowing if they’d win.

That is why things have stayed the way they have for so long. Everyone in the P5 is fat and happy at the table, the G5 gets to pretend they also attend the party (albeit at the kids table). No one gets sued, everyone makes boatloads of money, and most importantly everyone can go back to their school, CFP, conference, etc. and point at how good of a job they’re doing.

Relegation? Lol why? Out of the goodness of their hearts?

I have no idea why people still think we'll get a football only invite. There's been a huge move away from affiliates recently, Hawaii and Navy are the only G5 affiliates left, and I hope you can see why they're different. Simply not going to happen, no matter how much our AD and Pres beg at the feet of the commissioners.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

The question is: is there a better setup for the P5 where they would make more money than they do now, and could they get away with it?

The answer is: they might be able to make some more money, but they’d get their pants sued off, at a minimum incur hundreds of millions in legal fees without knowing if they’d win.

That is why things have stayed the way they have for so long. Everyone in the P5 is fat and happy at the table, the G5 gets to pretend they also attend the party (albeit at the kids table). No one gets sued, everyone makes boatloads of money, and most importantly everyone can go back to their school, CFP, conference, etc. and point at how good of a job they’re doing.

Relegation? Lol why? Out of the goodness of their hearts?

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Theoretically you could get enough teams comfortable at the top plus the G5 that you could squeeze the middle into relegation compromise that would let the big guys keep the money with the illusion of access for the rest but there’s no way the guys on top would take that risk.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Relegation? Lol why? Out of the goodness of their hearts?

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Someone needs to light a fire under schools like Kansas and Rutgers, somehow. Why do they even have FB?

The bigger point is what McFeely says. It’s moving toward what it was in D2, and some are fine with that, apparently even some Bison fans. Familiarity, I guess. With the Bison owning the MVFC/FCS like they do, it’s really not that bad. But shortly after NDSU jumped, there was nothing familiar, and guess what. It took off. Go figure.

Some people apparently claim that a FB-only affiliate will be impossible to get. I'd like to see hard evidence of that. Links, statements, etc.

going FBS for ALL SPORTS actually helps NDSU and the university as a whole!
much better competition for all our teams, it would REALLY elevate the basketball program too

https://gopherhole.com/boards/thread...2#post-2378472

gopher fans like every other fbs fanbase making fun of ndsu still

So would have been a gopher.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Someone needs to light a fire under schools like Kansas and Rutgers, somehow. Why do they even have FB?

The bigger point is what McFeely says. It’s moving toward what it was in D2, and some are fine with that, apparently even some Bison fans. Familiarity, I guess. With the Bison owning the MVFC/FCS like they do, it’s really not that bad. But shortly after NDSU jumped, there was nothing familiar, and guess what. It took off. Go figure.

Some people apparently claim that a FB-only affiliate will be impossible to get. I'd like to see hard evidence of that. Links, statements, etc.

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Impossible in that I'd bet my life it'll never happen, no.
Impossible in that it makes absolutely no sense for any conference to add us in FB only, yes. FBS conference rules are different than FCS. This really isn't hard to understand if you've paid any attention at all the last few years.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Someone needs to light a fire under schools like Kansas and Rutgers, somehow. Why do they even have FB?

The bigger point is what McFeely says. It’s moving toward what it was in D2, and some are fine with that, apparently even some Bison fans. Familiarity, I guess. With the Bison owning the MVFC/FCS like they do, it’s really not that bad. But shortly after NDSU jumped, there was nothing familiar, and guess what. It took off. Go figure.

Some people apparently claim that a FB-only affiliate will be impossible to get. I'd like to see hard evidence of that. Links, statements, etc.

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I've heard that KU football actually makes more money than their basketball program. I can't imagine they'd be in a real big hurry to give that up, not would their conference mates be in a real hurry to turn off the money that Kansas brings the conference from basketball.

Take this source for what it's worth, I don't see a breakdown of basketball monies, but my guess would be bball brings in a lot but also spends a boatload --> https://www.collegefactual.com/colle...t-life/sports/

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

https://gopherhole.com/boards/thread...2#post-2378472

gopher fans like every other fbs fanbase making fun of ndsu still

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Which bowl game are they playing in? I could give a shit about what goopher fans think. My only fear of going FBS is being as irrelevant as goopher football.

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Originally Posted by taper

Impossible in that I'd bet my life it'll never happen, no.
Impossible in that it makes absolutely no sense for any conference to add us in FB only, yes. FBS conference rules are different than FCS. This really isn't hard to understand if you've paid any attention at all the last few years.

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So, since we all know that this is what NDSU is pursuing right now, you’re essentially saying that NDSU athletics is clueless. I’ll take their knowledge and experience on this question over yours, thanks

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Originally Posted by oldmantutters

I've heard that KU football actually makes more money than their basketball program. I can't imagine they'd be in a real big hurry to give that up, not would their conference mates be in a real hurry to turn off the money that Kansas brings the conference from basketball.

Take this source for what it's worth, I don't see a breakdown of basketball monies, but my guess would be bball brings in a lot but also spends a boatload --> https://www.collegefactual.com/colle...t-life/sports/

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Thanks. I'll take a look

So it pays to even just kind of suck at FB if you are lucky enough to be in the P5 club. I get it, but doesn't seem right

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Thanks. I'll take a look

So it pays to even just kind of suck at FB if you are lucky enough to be in the P5 club. I get it, but doesn't seem right

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Look man, actual ability of football program means nothing. Hell it’s better if you can’t beat the top tier teams. Perception means much more, but still pales in comparison to how much money you can bring in. No one is “lighting a fire” under anyone. They’re very important parts of the power equilibrium in the major conferences.

Bringing in some little farmer college from the cold plains (which is what we are in the eyes of everyone outside the Midwest) to whoop up on your conference and make everyone look bad is not in anyones’ interest. Look at what the Dakota schools did to the MVFC and Summit. Think the MAC or MW wants that?

Ability, deservedness, authenticity all mean nothing. What can you bring to the conference and what risk is the conference taking on by bringing you in? That’s it.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Look man, actual ability of football program means nothing. Hell it’s better if you can’t beat the top tier teams. Perception means much more, but still pales in comparison to how much money you can bring in. No one is “lighting a fire” under anyone. They’re very important parts of the power equilibrium in the major conferences.

Bringing in some little farmer college from the cold plains (which is what we are in the eyes of everyone outside the Midwest) to whoop up on your conference and make everyone look bad is not in anyones’ interest. Look at what the Dakota schools did to the MVFC and Summit. Think the MAC or MW wants that?

Ability, deservedness, authenticity all mean nothing. What can you bring to the conference and what risk is the conference taking on by bringing you in? That’s it.

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I sense some purple here, but if there was a 12-team-playoff model like the one that was proposed, then any given conference would want to have the best FB possible, to be better positioned to compete for the additional playoff $$. If that doesn’t happen, then no, there would be no incentive.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

So, since we all know that this is what NDSU is pursuing right now, you’re essentially saying that NDSU athletics is clueless. I’ll take their knowledge and experience on this question over yours, thanks

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No, a small but vocal group of internet fanboys is calling for FB only. NDSU has been very guarded in its statements, which imo is the correct path right now. Simple fact is there hasn't been an invite and there's no sign of an upcoming invite. Plus the G5 as a whole dumped nearly all their affiliates in the last few years. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

I sense some purple here, but if there was a 12-team-playoff model like the one that was proposed, then any given conference would want to have the best FB possible, to be better positioned to compete for the additional playoff $$. If that doesn’t happen, then no, there would be no incentive.

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It seems like everything in college football is reactionary. I don't think anyone will bring anyone in to boost the level of football in their conference until after an expanded playoff is in place. Even then I think the P5s are going to do everything they can to keep as many dollars amongst themselves as possible and not give a cent more than they have to to the G5s.

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Originally Posted by oldmantutters

It seems like everything in college football is reactionary. I don't think anyone will bring anyone in to boost the level of football in their conference until after an expanded playoff is in place. Even then I think the P5s are going to do everything they can to keep as many dollars amongst themselves as possible and not give a cent more than they have to to the G5s.

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Completely agree, which is why I think standards should be high. Not worth it to go to CUSA with that looming, IMO. I guess we’ll see how it all shakes out.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

I sense some purple here, but if there was a 12-team-playoff model like the one that was proposed, then any given conference would want to have the best FB possible, to be better positioned to compete for the additional playoff $$. If that doesn’t happen, then no, there would be no incentive.

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If the teams at the top of the mac or mw think they have a chance of making the CFP at 12 teams, they surely aren’t going to bring us in to screw it up for them.

No purple, all truth. We could literally win 100 straight games and we’d be no closer to being in FBS. Just because we’re a top 50 team doesn’t mean they want us or ever will.

Continue building on academics (R1 designation is huge), increase endowment, increase fan base, continue to get monster TV ratings and see what happens.

Be a school that conference mates would be proud to have, not ashamed when the only thing that makes it look like we belong is beating them in football. This isn’t XBOX, conference affiliations have much less to do with football ability than many other things.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

If the teams at the top of the mac or mw think they have a chance of making the CFP at 12 teams, they surely aren’t going to bring us in to screw it up for them.

No purple, all truth. We could literally win 100 straight games and we’d be no closer to being in FBS. Just because we’re a top 50 team doesn’t mean they want us or ever will.

Continue building on academics (R1 designation is huge), increase endowment, increase fan base, continue to get monster TV ratings and see what happens.

Be a school that conference mates would be proud to have, not ashamed when the only thing that makes it look like we belong is beating them in football. This isn’t XBOX, conference affiliations have much less to do with football ability than many other things.

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There's so much truth in this. 92 and I had some sparring in previous threads, but it's clear we both want what's best for NDSU. Since it's clear we didn't have what it takes to get an invite in this realignment, do everything we can to improve the entire university to be ready for the next round.

Fair enough. Me too really. Hard not to want it sometimes though, and not get impatient, given the reality of the situation

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Fair enough. Me too really. Hard not to want it sometimes though, and not get impatient, given the reality of the situation

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The reality of the situation is that impatience has been warranted, given that we have been an FBS-caliber football program for a decade. The reality is that we should go FBS independent if we don't have a conference. The reality is, if we had gone FBS independent a couple years ago when there were plenty of other FBS independent teams to schedule, we'd be in an FBS conference today. Does anyone think Las Cruces is easier than Fargo for most CUSA teams to get to? And we are already a better quality university than most of the teams in G5 conferences. We're R1, and we've been R1 in the past. There's just not many other achievements for us to secure as a university.

I think the reality is that if we continue to wait for the landscape to change in our favor, we will continue to get passed by (if we ever have been passed by). I'm not convinced that we were passed up this round as much as we just sat this one out. I'm guessing we never contacted CUSA or the MAC to express an interest. We may not have even contacted the MWC. We needed to be aggressive and proactive.

If not FBS, fine. But then let's fund football at a typical FCS level and put more money into basketball. Or let's start hockey (...why should UND have everything we have and then some?). Lets do something to move forward. Does the athletics department have a strategic plan that is about anything other than better offices for coaches and better play spaces for athletes?

Having said all of that, I don't believe FBS will happen. So I'm resigned to that. I'm just frustrated at our own role in ensuring that we never move up. We deserve to be where we are at for not having tried. And how do I surmise that we haven't tried? Because ML and DB have repeatedly told us as much.

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Originally Posted by taper

No, a small but vocal group of internet fanboys is calling for FB only. NDSU has been very guarded in its statements, which imo is the correct path right now. Simple fact is there hasn't been an invite and there's no sign of an upcoming invite. Plus the G5 as a whole dumped nearly all their affiliates in the last few years. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

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then enjoy the fargodome with 12,500 each saturday.

you say "I'm guessing we never contacted CUSA or the MAC to express an interest. We may not have even contacted the MWC. We needed to be aggressive and proactive."

OF COURSE NDSU hasn't contacted anyone, same shit as the last 10 years. Dean is gone now and Matt L/Todd/Lein can convince the new president that we shouldn't risk our cushy jobs for the next 5 years as well. we are screwed.

wait is this true? can someone show me or point me to podcast of this?

Replying to
@tonyelgringo12

@angelgalvez4722
and 3 others

No FBS conference has ever reached out to NDSU regarding moving up. This was confirmed by the AD a few weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by taper

There's so much truth in this. 92 and I had some sparring in previous threads, but it's clear we both want what's best for NDSU. Since it's clear we didn't have what it takes to get an invite in this realignment, do everything we can to improve the entire university to be ready for the next round.

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Absolutely, we have some different perspectives on certain things but in the end we seem pretty realistic with our views and really just want what’s best for the university.

Move the university forward and see what comes.

…and maybe make some phone calls to the good conferences ;)

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Originally Posted by taper

There's so much truth in this. 92 and I had some sparring in previous threads, but it's clear we both want what's best for NDSU. Since it's clear we didn't have what it takes to get an invite in this realignment, do everything we can to improve the entire university to be ready for the next round.

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Need to get enrollment to 20k so we improve our academics and research. Make NDSU the premier university in the upper Midwest!

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Absolutely, we have some different perspectives on certain things but in the end we seem pretty realistic with our views and really just want what’s best for the university.

Move the university forward and see what comes.

…and maybe make some phone calls to the good conferences ;)

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If you aren’t doing this then you aren’t serious about moving up, that much is certain. We’ll see what the new POTU pushes. NDSU/MSU looking like the best available. No idea why SHU is moving up. Makes no sense. The people who run FBS must be stupid.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

If you aren’t doing this then you aren’t serious about moving up, that much is certain. We’ll see what the new POTU pushes. NDSU/MSU looking like the best available. No idea why SHU is moving up. Makes no sense. The people who run FBS must be stupid.

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Sammy is moving up because it provides the rest of the conference the ability to recruit Houston and DFW. It’s geographically right there and Sammy has no chance of leaving them high and dry.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Sammy is moving up because it provides the rest of the conference the ability to recruit Houston and DFW. It’s geographically right there and Sammy has no chance of leaving them high and dry.

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Overrated

If Houston market mattered Rice would be good at FB. Rice sucks at FB and will forever

Too much other good stuff going on in Houston

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Overrated

If Houston market mattered Rice would be good at FB. Rice sucks at FB and will forever

Too much other good stuff going on in Houston

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Recruiting bro, not market. Even NDSU comes to DFW and Houston metros for recruits in the past.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Overrated

If Houston market mattered Rice would be good at FB. Rice sucks at FB and will forever

Too much other good stuff going on in Houston

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Sometimes it's about the other good schools wanting to recruit kids in that area. So the other schools(not Rice) can tell a kid they will play in their home city multiple times over their collegiate career.

And the schools like to have other schools in their conference in large metros to recruit kids academically.

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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

Sometimes it's about the other good schools wanting to recruit kids in that area. So the other schools(not Rice) can tell a kid they will play in their home city multiple times over their collegiate career.

And the schools like to have other schools in their conference in large metros to recruit kids academically.

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Well in this case it’s exactly the geography the commish wants, so good on them, I guess. I’m skeptical they’ll climb in FBS. Rice will always suck at FB though.

I don't understand your last sentence, FWIW, so maybe I'm stupid too.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Well in this case it’s exactly the geography the commish wants, so good on them, I guess. I’m skeptical they’ll climb in FBS. Rice will always suck at FB though.

I don't understand your last sentence, FWIW, so maybe I'm stupid too.

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It wasn't written very well. I read comments from school presidents in the past when it comes to conferences looking at schools that said they want to have schools in their conference that are in big markets because then their school becomes a known name in that city. So from an academics side they can market to that area and pull more regular students to their school.

And also now in today’s age of recruiting, a lot of the time a coach will play a game, stick around with a coordinator or two and go meet kids in the area. Sammy is ideal for that as well.

If NDSU can't afford an all sport move to another conference (and I'm not sure they can)...how in the heck can UMKC do it?

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Originally Posted by Gully

If NDSU can't afford an all sport move to another conference (and I'm not sure they can)...how in the heck can UMKC do it?

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