Possible Solutions to Higher Ed Funding Dilemma

[IowaBison]

Considering North Dakota's political landscape, possibly the best/only? solution to our state's higher ed mess is to follow Colorado's lead and move from institutional support to student support.

That is instead of giving the money to institution's using a completely subjective funding formula give each state resident $x/semester for Y semesters, similar to K12 vouchers.

This might appeal to conservatives in the state.

We would be focused on outcomes, not institutions.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/01/19_helmsm_colmodel/

[NanoBison]

Interesting idea, but basically it would mean, the schools would all be completely dependent on the students tuition. There are more costs which have to be offset by funding from the state every year. Plus, many college students are going to college for 5 years or more, some disciplines even require 5 years to complete a plan of study, would there exist a bias against anyone who doesn't finish in 4 years? I think Higher Education funding is a bit more complicated than K-12 funding...

[IowaBison]

Not all funding would come from the grant program, institutions would still receive some direct funding from the state.

In Colorado students receive $2400/semester for ten semesters, which covers about 2/3 of state spending.

[NanoBison]

I must admit, it would have been nice to have the state pay for at least part of my education, since I do plan on staying in the state. All I ever received from the state was 2 SEOG grants totaling $600. The rest was all Federal Loans.

Doesn't California also have a policy similar to what your talking about, except that all state residents may attend any California school for free?

[IowaBison]

You're kind of off the mark Nano.

Students wouldn't necessarily see any benefit from the voucher, you'd still pay tuition-who knows if it would be more or less than what one would pay other wise. NDSU would be a net winner.

Cal grants pay for some of each California residents tuition.

[NanoBison]

I have an idea. Since we have $200 million in the coffers, why don't we take like $50,000,000 of that and pay for in-state and out-of-state students (at least a majority of tuition) to goto the two research universities for free, in various high tech fields, based upon the certain criteria :

1. Must be top 5% of graduating class
2. SAT's and ACT's have to be very high
3. They must remain in state for at least 5 years after graduation
3.b working at an established or startup firm in ND in a related high tech field
3.c working at a current start up or rapidly expanding tech business
3.d through state assistance start their own technology company (best case scenario)
4. If the individual ever leaves the state before that time the grants turn into a loan
which must be paid back to the state within a reasonable time.

I would imagine it being offered to those in :

Computer Science
Software Engineering
Chemistry
Physics
Theoritical Mathematics
Polymeric Coatings
Nanotechnology
Nano Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Biomedical Engineering
Medical Research
Aerospace
Agricultural Genetics
Genetics
and the list could go on and on......

Of course competition would be very tough, and spots would be limited with $50,000,000 to work with.

[IowaBison]

Ah, no.

[NanoBison]

How about we use the $200+ million right now to establish an endowment that can be used for research at the two doctoral universities?

[Bison_Dan]

The only way your going to get rid of some of the dead weight in higher ed is to find a substitute or create a new mission for each university that you want to replace. Either by subsizing a business to purchase the university or something. These small towns won't give up the jobs and will take down the whole higher ed system before they give up the universities.

[insane_ponderer]

I have an idea. Since we have $200 million in the coffers, why don't we take like $50,000,000 of that and pay for in-state and out-of-state students (at least a majority of tuition) to goto the two research universities for free, in various high tech fields, based upon the certain criteria :

1. Must be top 5% of graduating class
2. SAT's and ACT's have to be very high
3. They must remain in state for at least 5 years after graduation
* *3.b working at an established or startup firm in ND in a related high tech field
* *3.c working at a current start up or rapidly expanding tech business
* *3.d through state assistance start their own technology company (best case scenario)
4. If the individual ever leaves the state before that time the grants turn into a loan
* *which must be paid back to the state within a reasonable time.

I would imagine it being offered to those in :

Computer Science
Software Engineering
Chemistry
Physics
Theoritical Mathematics
Polymeric Coatings
Nanotechnology
Nano Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Biomedical Engineering
Medical Research
Aerospace
Agricultural Genetics
Genetics
and the list could go on and on......

Of course competition would be very tough, and spots would be limited with $50,000,000 to work with.


Love the idea nano...just one problem...if they all have to stay in state for 5 years after they graduate are they going to work as janitors or just be pracs rats? cause there arent nearly enough jobs in those fields to even support the graduates we have now.

After reading a little closer i noticed the other stipulations under the 5 years rule...and i like it better, its very idealistic but damn would it be cool.

[MplsBison]

I would love to see this idea.


But anyone who wants to see the status quo stay will cry for blood that NDSU and UND are trying to eliminate the smaller schools.


Likely a messy, public battle with probable lawsuits.

[NanoBison]

So in essence, small town North Dakota is holding the rest of the state back correct ???

They can't come up with anything to add jobs in their dying cities, or don't even want to bother trying, since they know they are "safe", since it would basically take a revolution to close down one or more of these schools...

How about this idea on for size :

Economic Impacts on the state can all be measured for every campus in the system. For example, NDSU and UND have an economic impact on the state of over $1 billion/year each. I say we tally up the impacts and then whatever you're share of that is, thats the share of state funding you will receive. Of course there would be a "base level" everything is funded at, becuase I'm guessing when you match Mayville up to NDSU or UND it isn't a pretty number. It would be tough on the smaller schools, but I think it would be fair across the board. So in essence, if you want more money, do more for the state.

Any thoughts? Feel free to blast me on any of these....

[NanoBison]

I have an idea. Since we have $200 million in the coffers, why don't we take like $50,000,000 of that and pay for in-state and out-of-state students (at least a majority of tuition) to goto the two research universities for free, in various high tech fields, based upon the certain criteria :

1. Must be top 5% of graduating class
2. SAT's and ACT's have to be very high
3. They must remain in state for at least 5 years after graduation
3.b working at an established or startup firm in ND in a related high tech field
3.c working at a current start up or rapidly expanding tech business
3.d through state assistance start their own technology company (best case scenario)
4. If the individual ever leaves the state before that time the grants turn into a loan
which must be paid back to the state within a reasonable time.

I would imagine it being offered to those in :

Computer Science
Software Engineering
Chemistry
Physics
Theoritical Mathematics
Polymeric Coatings
Nanotechnology
Nano Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Biomedical Engineering
Medical Research
Aerospace
Agricultural Genetics
Genetics
and the list could go on and on......

Of course competition would be very tough, and spots would be limited with $50,000,000 to work with.


Love the idea nano...just one problem...if they all have to stay in state for 5 years after they graduate are they going to work as janitors or just be pracs rats? cause there arent nearly enough jobs in those fields to even support the graduates we have now.

After reading a little closer i noticed the other stipulations under the 5 years rule...and i like it better, its very idealistic but damn would it be cool.


I was hoping that, since these are the top of the crop recruits were talking about, they would turn into Michael Chambers type people and start their own little corporations like Aldevron. Wishful thinking, but still, there is some logic behind it.

[IowaBison]

Nano, you could get $2 million for your idea from the general fund.

Sad, but true.

[NanoBison]

{In an ACE VENTURA voice}


RRReeeeeeeeehhheeeeehheeeeeeheheeeeeeeeaalllllllly yyyyyy. :o



But really, I don't think I'd be the one appropriate to run something like that.
I've got research to do.

[IowaBison]

That should have read couldn't.

:P

[NanoBison]

:-? :-/ ::) :o

[IowaBison]

Sorry to get your hope up.

[broke_back_mnt]

Good idea Nano! How about giving the in-state kids preference?

[IowaBisonToo]

[quote author=NanoBison link=1149614718/0#5 date=1149618107]


I was hoping that, since these are the top of the crop recruits were talking about, they would turn into Michael Chambers type people and start their own little corporations like Aldevron. Wishful thinking, but still, there is some logic behind it.
That's the idea, Nano. One thing that needs to be done, too, is the assurance of some companies that will pay good money to kids coming out of NDSU/UND/VCSU/etc. who work for them. Not to slam Chambers but, I don't think he's even close to paying his employees even the regional average in terms of salary. I've heard this through second hand information from very good sources so, it wouldn't surprise me. Here in Iowa, they had started, stopped and now started again something called the Iowa Values Fund. We had a company in town that was awarded something along the lines of a $9M start-up grant (some being actual grant money, some being small business loans) for an addition they were planning. The stipulation on that particular grant was they had to employ somewhere around 250 people in the next 5 years with an average salary of $45K. Now, that doesn't seem like a lot but when you consider the areas average income being around that $35K mark, that's a huge benefit for the local economy. It sounds like there could be a merger of this type of fund along with what you're proposing. The biggest problem is, ND just isn't into the luring of businesses like other states are. They seem to happy with the status quo. :-[ I'd love to come back to Fargo and start a business someday but, there are other states out there that would welcome me with open arms much more than ND. That's just sad. :(

[insane_ponderer]

[quote author=NanoBison link=1149614718/0#5 date=1149618107]


I was hoping that, since these are the top of the crop recruits were talking about, they would turn into Michael Chambers type people and start their own little corporations like Aldevron. Wishful thinking, but still, there is some logic behind it.
That's the idea, Nano. *One thing that needs to be done, too, is the assurance of some companies that will pay good money to kids coming out of NDSU/UND/VCSU/etc. who work for them. *Not to slam Chambers but, I don't think he's even close to paying his employees even the regional average in terms of salary. *I've heard this through second hand information from very good sources so, it wouldn't surprise me. *Here in Iowa, they had started, stopped and now started again something called the Iowa Values Fund. *We had a company in town that was awarded something along the lines of a $9M start-up grant (some being actual grant money, some being small business loans) for an addition they were planning. *The stipulation on that particular grant was they had to employ somewhere around 250 people in the next 5 years with an average salary of $45K. *Now, that doesn't seem like a lot but when you consider the areas average income being around that $35K mark, that's a huge benefit for the local economy. *It sounds like there could be a merger of this type of fund along with what you're proposing. *The biggest problem is, ND just isn't into the luring of businesses like other states are. *They seem to happy with the status quo. :-[ *I'd love to come back to Fargo and start a business someday but, there are other states out there that would welcome me with open arms much more than ND. *That's just sad. :(

Mike Chambers is in a way definently the mold to follow for the little tech corp guys around the area. I know a lot of people that work there and that have worked there over the past, not to mention being there myself for awhile while i was an undergrad. There are some great stories that have been done about the company itself and lots of credit given to NDSU and allowing them to start the company in a back room on campus. Mike is what I would call a typical visionary; very idealistic, high energy, creative and at the same time horribly disorganized, scatterbrained etc. It is quite entertaining to watch at times.

I always was very appreciative of his interest in helping NDSU and giving back though. Whenever the biotech club wanted to get a tour or have someone come in and talk to us or when we threw the hot zone event a few years ago he was always there with all his resources to help. He was also always excellent at hiring NDSU students for small part time lab jobs so they could get some experience.

I will say that everyone that works there is underpaid, thats not to say that they don't get paid fairly well, but Mike and I think any small company still trying to make a name for itself demands a lot of work. I am excited to see where it goes in the next couple years, and honestly It has always been a thought of mine as well to come back and start a company similar. I think i would absolutely love it.

[insane_ponderer]

And for the record, if anyone on this board is an investment banker or something of that nature and is interested in a life sciences/biotechnology related small business venture...let me know ;)

[IowaBisonToo]

And for the record, if anyone on this board is an investment banker or something of that nature and is interested in a life sciences/biotechnology related small business venture...let me know ;)
What do plan on starting G-city? Might be able to offer my expertise, too. PhD and 7 years in biotech companies must be worth something, shouldn't it? :)

[insane_ponderer]

Hey, no doubt...I am guessing we could hook up, i got a little time yet, currently trying to get my Phd. *There are quite a few of us Biotech/Microbiology grads from 04/05 that are getting Phd's and there are definitely a few that have the entrepreneurial mindset. *We would probably have to find someone with a MBA or something though.

Ideas, I guess I am not totally sure...antibody company, drug testing/development company, something small and govt funded preferably :)

[MplsBison]

How about finding a chemical that will convert cellulose into ethanol?

[insane_ponderer]

Well I have always thought about putting that biotech education of mine to figure out how to engineer an organism that is more tolerant to ethanol in the whole distilation process...i am pretty sure that would probably be fairly useful.

[NanoBison]

Look what I've gone and done... I've got some people grinding the gears, thinking of ideas... Always good to see....

[insane_ponderer]

Nothing beats a brainstorming session. Speaking of which, there used to be kinda an informal club that would meet every now and then, i think it was the 5:01 club. I was just wondering if that is still active ?

[IowaBisonToo]

How about finding a chemical that will convert cellulose into ethanol?
MplsBison - there already is an enzyme that will convert cellulose into useable material for the yeast to break down and convert to ethanol. There are already a couple of plants using this technology (I know one for sure in Idaho) and others that are being planned. Depending on how efficient the enzyme actually is, can you imagine what this would mean for Joe consumer?

Think of it like this. You mow your lawn one afternoon and take the clippings along with the trimmings from the hedge and probably some old left-over vegetables you had in the fridge, throw them into a big tank in your garage and start the brewing. Over the next couple of days, you have pure ethanol. Go to the gas station, but a little gasoline and mix it with your ethanol. Taa Daa! Pumping it into your E85 vehicle. Now you'd only do this of course if you wanted to potentially blow up your garage but, you get the idea.

Maybe that's what the State Board of Higher Ed can do - open up their own ethanol plant. Run it for a few years (you know, live off the subsidies from the feds) and then sell it to some big corporation for a tidy profit which in turn goes back into something like an endowment/trust.

[insane_ponderer]

How about finding a chemical that will convert cellulose into ethanol?


Think of it like this. *You mow your lawn one afternoon and take the clippings along with the trimmings from the hedge and probably some old left-over vegetables you had in the fridge, throw them into a big tank in your garage and start the brewing. *Over the next couple of days, you have pure ethanol. *Go to the gas station, but a little gasoline and mix it with your ethanol. *Taa Daa! *Pumping it into your E85 vehicle. *Now you'd only do this of course if you wanted to potentially blow up your garage but, you get the idea.



Hey, I am pretty sure that if some good ol' boys from down south can do it without blowing themselves up MplsBison could figure it out. :)

[Herd_Mentality]

Somebody come up with something that doesn't require 3 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. *Build all these refineries and if ND has a couple of dry years like we've had in the past...we'll be sucking our aquifers dry (all of this new farm irrigation and mega hog barns will only make matters worse).

[MplsBison]

How about finding a chemical that will convert cellulose into ethanol?
MplsBison - there already is an enzyme that will convert cellulose into useable material for the yeast to break down and convert to ethanol. There are already a couple of plants using this technology (I know one for sure in Idaho) and others that are being planned. Depending on how efficient the enzyme actually is, can you imagine what this would mean for Joe consumer?

Think of it like this. You mow your lawn one afternoon and take the clippings along with the trimmings from the hedge and probably some old left-over vegetables you had in the fridge, throw them into a big tank in your garage and start the brewing. Over the next couple of days, you have pure ethanol. Go to the gas station, but a little gasoline and mix it with your ethanol. Taa Daa! Pumping it into your E85 vehicle. Now you'd only do this of course if you wanted to potentially blow up your garage but, you get the idea.

Maybe that's what the State Board of Higher Ed can do - open up their own ethanol plant. Run it for a few years (you know, live off the subsidies from the feds) and then sell it to some big corporation for a tidy profit which in turn goes back into something like an endowment/trust.


Actually, I'd be taking the E85 and putting it into my flexfuel plug in hybrid. 100 mpg sounds about right to me.


New nuclear and clean coal power plants too!