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Flanders
05-31-2006, 07:55 PM
The time is now to go D-1. He said it today at a press conference in which UND's task force released its findings to President Kupchella. He said that that is his recommendation to Kupchella. Some other intersting things came out at the press conference as well.

mn-bison
05-31-2006, 08:05 PM
What kind of interesting items? Don't leave us hangin'...

Flanders
05-31-2006, 08:35 PM
What kind of interesting items? Don't leave us hangin'...

Just trying to build some suspense. He said that with NDSU, SDSU, and Northern Colorado gone, NCC just isn't the same. And there isn't any quality schools to replace them. He said he doesn't see the point of being the top dog in D2 anymore because there is little reward. He was very adament.

Bisonguy
05-31-2006, 08:43 PM
I thought Bunning was in favor of moving up. Kupchella, on the other hand, now that's the $64,000 question.

mikelsch
05-31-2006, 09:01 PM
I like Bunning -- he's a likeable guy, good leader, a straight shooter, and has great perspective coming in from an untainted outside source. *Sounds similar to Gene Taylor when he came to NDSU. *Unfortunately for UND, the same comparison cannot be made with the presidents, who ultimately make the call. *

Bunning realizes that UND's peers are now (or already were) in Division I, and isn't afraid to take the chance of being an ordinary fish in the big pond. *The old pond (DII and the NCC) is drying up and there is no water or other big fish in sight. *Spots in midwest/west DI conferences don't open up very often as they have learned from NDSU. The time for them to move to DI is now; or risk missing their opportunity. *The extra required money to move is there, they just have to try harder to find it.

Link to UND's DI study
http://www.und.edu/president/taskforce.html

roadwarrior
05-31-2006, 09:25 PM
It should be not be a surprise to anyone that Buning is for the move to D-I.

broke_back_mnt
05-31-2006, 10:06 PM
After reading the report from the DI committee up there (its posted on suesports) they have work to do, but that report did not reveal any major roadblocks. *Putting Bunings comments together with the talk on DII football.com (UND is a DI lock and SCSU is right behind), and the report, I am of the opinion they will move. *I still think they will respect the 18 month notice to the NCC. *Their last season in the NCC and DII will probably be 2007.

Flanders
05-31-2006, 10:11 PM
It should be not be a surprise to anyone that Buning is for the move to D-I.

It should be a surprise. He has not tipped his hand until today. It might have been the best guess, but it never came from him.

DIBISON
06-01-2006, 02:48 AM
It should be not be a surprise to anyone that Buning is for the move to D-I.

It should be a surprise. *He has not tipped his hand until today. *It might have been the best guess, but it never came from him. *

It's been no secret that Bunning desires to move to DI and has tipped his hand many times. Why shouldn't Bunning publically state that DI would be in the best interest of his program, after all isn't that his job? But as everyone knows for now it is not his decision to make, so his opinion is only window dressing for the man in charge, President Kupchella. Sort of an embarrassing position to be in.

MinotBison
06-01-2006, 03:48 AM
It should be not be a surprise to anyone that Buning is for the move to D-I.

It should be a surprise. *He has not tipped his hand until today. *It might have been the best guess, but it never came from him. *

It's been no secret that Bunning desires to move to DI and has tipped his hand many times. *Why shouldn't Bunning publically state that DI would be in the best interest of his program, after all isn't that his job? *But as everyone knows for now it is not his decision to make, *so his opinion is only window dressing for the man in charge, President Kupchella. *Sort of an embarrassing position to be in.

How long will it be before Bunning gets fired by Pres. K? Just kidding, but I agree, it must indeed be an embarrassing position to be in.

kchats
06-01-2006, 03:53 AM
After reading the report from the DI committee up there (its posted on suesports) they have work to do, but that report did not reveal any major roadblocks. *Putting Bunings comments together with the talk on DII football.com (UND is a DI lock and SCSU is right behind), and the report, I am of the opinion they will move. *I still think they will respect the 18 month notice to the NCC. *Their last season in the NCC and DII will probably be 2007.

How would that work JBB? If they declare their intent to move to division I prior to July 1 they enter into an exploratory year immediately don't they? I know NDSU and SDSU waited a year even though they made the decision to move up to division I at the same time. Did NDSU and SDSU announce the move to division I a full year before the exploratory year?

What happens if they declare their intentions to make the move (JBB now thinks they go, I still think they stay) and they get shut out of all the conference spots? Do they decide to stay division II after their exploratory season?

I see no evidence that either the Big Sky or the Mid Con would be willing to carry a division II transition university for more than one or two years at the most. From what NDSU and SDSU have seen and experienced the conferences expect the universities to go through the transition as an independent since a transitioning school really has nothing to offer a mostly stable conference. It is looking like NDSU and SDSU will finally get an invite to the Mid Con but they won't play in the Mid Con until the 2007-2008 season at the earliest which is the year before they are eligible much like UNC is playing in the Big Sky this coming season the year before they are eligible. So you see the pattern? Neither the Big Sky or the Mid Con has a need to carry a university through a 5 year transition.

Bisonguy
06-01-2006, 04:02 AM
After reading the report from the DI committee up there (its posted on suesports) they have work to do, but that report did not reveal any major roadblocks. *Putting Bunings comments together with the talk on DII football.com (UND is a DI lock and SCSU is right behind), and the report, I am of the opinion they will move. *I still think they will respect the 18 month notice to the NCC. *Their last season in the NCC and DII will probably be 2007.

How would that work JBB? *If they declare their intent to move to division I prior to July 1 they enter into an exploratory year immediately don't they? *I know NDSU and SDSU waited a year even though they made the decision to move up to division I at the same time. *Did NDSU and SDSU announce the move to division I a full year before the exploratory year?

Yes, NDSU declared a full year before the beginning of the exploratory year. The deadline when NDSU declared was Dec.1 of the exploratory year. It has now changed to June 1 (July 1 for UND this year) preceeding the exploratory year. NDSU actually declared the move to DI before UNC did, although UNC is a year ahead of NDSU in the transition. UND would have to declare by July 1 that 2007/2008 will be their exploratory year if the wish to honor the 18 month notice now required by the NCC and not burn any bridges.





What happens if they declare their intentions to make the move (JBB now thinks they go, I still think they stay) and they get shut out of all the conference spots? *Do they decide to stay division II after their exploratory season?

That's a perfectly possible scenario

MinotBison
06-01-2006, 04:10 AM
If UND makes "the move", what happens to the rest of the NCC? Would they then join with the NSIC?

In particular, I am thinking of Omaha. They are in a tough spot. I would think they would not want to stay D2, but on the other hand it would be tough to compete against their big brother over in Lincoln in the recruiting department.

kchats
06-01-2006, 04:17 AM
How many of the larger schools that now may be forced to move to division I are thinking if we had only listened to NDSU, SDSU and UNC we would almost be through the transition and in a conference?

I'm guess the move up schools would have been:

NDSU
SDSU
UNC
UND
SCSU
USD
UNO
Mankato

I don't believe Augustana would have made the move.

I do think NDSU is better off getting into an existing conference (hopefully the Mid Con this year) because the conference they get into will have an autobid. A moved up NCC might have tried to limit scholarships that would have limited or eliminated the ability of NDSU to be successful in most of their sports.

rabidrabbit
06-01-2006, 04:32 AM
Assuming we get the nod from Mid-con for the two SU's we're going to be extremely happy that we moved when we did. JMHO, but UND moving now, and playing their first transition year in '08 will leave them with several opportunities to join the mid-con in probably '10 or '11, in much the same capacity as UC Davis to the Big West.

I would foresee adding them right away to the GWFC tho.

With the deferral period, may see most of the rest of the NCC jumping except Augie. Tho, I think UNO and USD may team up with the Missouri D II conference.

That would give them plenty of teams to play, and they may try to force their way along with a "scheduling alliance" much as we'll see in '06.

roadwarrior
06-01-2006, 12:12 PM
This quote from the Forum has me puzzled: According to North Dakota’s task force report, it would take an additional $1 million per year to operate in Division I.

Did the task force do its job? Didnt NDSU's budget increase by at least 2 if not 3 million?

Bison_Dan
06-01-2006, 12:49 PM
After reading the task force report I now know why NDSU had an outside firm do their report. Here is a list of things I found in the report.

1. It reads like a advertisement for und athletics
2. It deals in averages and makes conclusions on averages.
3. It doesn't address the added cost of moving bb into the ralph.
4. It mentions that for fb that the alerus has to expand but doesn't factor in that und has no control over that and what the cost would be.
5. It doesn't do a good job of addressing the the athletic dept as needed personnel for dii or DI.

This report is the reason you can't have people that are in the department or any company do a comprehensive report on themselves. It just doesn't work.

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 02:13 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. *Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. *Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. *Of course there isnt. *They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. Beautiful. He is ready to retire anyway.

Paulie
06-01-2006, 02:17 PM
[quote author=kchats link=1149105305/0#10 date=1149134011][quote author=JBB link=1149105305/0#6 date=1149113219]

NDSU actually declared the move to DI before UNC did, although UNC is a year ahead of NDSU in the transition.



What day did NDSU declare because UNC declared on May 10, 2002?

IowaBisonToo
06-01-2006, 02:18 PM
Besides the financial red tape, how different is und right now than NDSU was when they decided to go DI?

Is there less financial support?
Is there less support from the city (not as that would make a huge difference)?
Is it just a "because they did it, we need to do it, too, ASAP?"

How do they compare?

RedRiver
06-01-2006, 02:56 PM
One major difference is the cash draining women's hockey program which must be funded by other funds.

BisonBacker
06-01-2006, 02:59 PM
Some things that I find interesting...

Bunning states in the article "Declaring an exploratory year would give UND the chance to join an established conference, attract more students and put the Sioux on the national map, Buning said"

Seems we always hear about how they are nationally recognized by those who post on here.

Didn't kuppy say in his infamous email
"Is the level of competition in DIAA really that much better then DII?"
Yet Bunning states...
“For a university of our stature, Division I is where our peers are currently competing at,” Buning said."

So which is it?

Also wasn't the poll that was taken (albeit results may have been skewed based on the wording) that the majority of those polled were not in favor of the move yet Bunning says...

“Based on the sense I got from members of the community and my own personal feeling, many of the barriers that might have been there before have disappeared."

Why is it so hard for them to understand that the reality is no conference will look at them seriously until after they are well into the transition if not completely through it? Bunning must be joking when he says...

"Declaring an exploratory year would give UND the chance to join an established conference, attract more students and put the Sioux on the national map, Buning said."

This has obviously come down IMHO to not what is best or right for und but just trying to keep up with NDSU and Fargo. Then again what else would you expect from them? Nothing has changed, they have always been trying to keep up with NDSU :)

RedRiver
06-01-2006, 03:02 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. *Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. *Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. *Of course there isnt. *They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." * First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. *Beautiful. *He is ready to retire anyway.

UND only alerted the NCC of their intent to move up, nothing about an official notice of withdrawal.

This is all talk and window dressing anyway. I think it is funny, Bunnings says we are going DI and the President says - - whoa hold on were not going anywhere just yet. What a joke!!

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 03:04 PM
The real price of air travel is up about 20%. (ATPI Index, BTS)

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 03:06 PM
Its now a two headed monster. The AD is talking big and the Pres now looks like an agreeable fool. There is no panic.

Flanders
06-01-2006, 03:24 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. Of course there isnt. They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. Beautiful. He is ready to retire anyway.

UND only alerted the NCC of their intent to move up, nothing about an official notice of withdrawal.

This is all talk and window dressing anyway. I think it is funny, Bunnings says we are going DI and the President says - - whoa hold on were not going anywhere just yet. What a joke!!

That wasn't said. Do you really think that Buning and Kupchella haven't discussed a game plan concerning this? I'll clue you in: Kupchella tells Buning "You be the point man on this. Go out and deliver the pro-DI speech. We have a month to get our message across. At the end of the month I'll give the D-1 move the go-ahead."

IowaBisonToo
06-01-2006, 03:38 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. *Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. *Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. *Of course there isnt. *They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." * First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. *Beautiful. *He is ready to retire anyway.

UND only alerted the NCC of their intent to move up, nothing about an official notice of withdrawal.

This is all talk and window dressing anyway. *I think it is funny, Bunnings says we are going DI and the President says - - whoa hold on were not going anywhere just yet. *What a joke!!

That wasn't said. *Do you really think that Buning and Kupchella haven't discussed a game plan concerning this? *I'll clue you in: *Kupchella tells Buning "You be the point man on this. *Go out and deliver the pro-DI speech. *We have a month to get our message across. *At the end of the month I'll give the D-1 move the go-ahead."
That's about the way I read it. What gets me though is by doing this, I think all he's doing is trying to save face. From the comments he's made in the past, if he were to be the "front man," he would get destroyed by fans, rivals, media, etc. on his complete 180. Let it look like Buning is the man making the decision and not Kup - even though most people realize Kup has the final word.

RedRiver
06-01-2006, 03:51 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. *Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. *Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. *Of course there isnt. *They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." * First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. *Beautiful. *He is ready to retire anyway.

UND only alerted the NCC of their intent to move up, nothing about an official notice of withdrawal.

This is all talk and window dressing anyway. *I think it is funny, Bunnings says we are going DI and the President says - - whoa hold on were not going anywhere just yet. *What a joke!!

That wasn't said. *Do you really think that Buning and Kupchella haven't discussed a game plan concerning this? *I'll clue you in: *Kupchella tells Buning "You be the point man on this. *Go out and deliver the pro-DI speech. *We have a month to get our message across. *At the end of the month I'll give the D-1 move the go-ahead."

Based on their comments I don't see how they have talked. Someone made a comment on talk radio that if they didn't know it, they couldn't tell that Kupchella and Bunning worked for the same university. Just look at the quotes in the Forum article today, neither are on the same path. And you are neutral to NDSU, come on!!

Sticks
06-01-2006, 03:56 PM
One major difference is the cash draining women's hockey program which must be funded by other funds.

Stupid title IX >:(

roadwarrior
06-01-2006, 04:07 PM
Stupid title IX * >:(

How will UND deal with Title IX when adding 27 football scholarships?

Was this addressed in the task force report?

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 04:31 PM
Stupid title IX >:(

How will UND deal with Title IX when adding 27 football scholarships?

Was this addressed in the task force report?

Everyone has to read that section.

What a hoot. ;)

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 04:31 PM
http://www.und.edu/president/docs/MASTER%20-%20%20FINAL%20NCAA%20TASK%20FORCE%20REPORT.pdf

Thats the report.

I couldnt find anything about your question specifically but they did mention that they have more grants-in-aid than the average DII institiution (Duh. *They have hockey which most DII institutions do not).

It also mentions that if they decide to move they need to do comprehensive financial planning and identify a conference that will take them.

The report even makes mention of DII schools compared to DI-AA institutions. *They dont even understand how the classification works!

You will find it entertaining reading. *If this is the extent of their planning they are really going out on a limb. *If they announce their move and then do the comprehensive planning that NDSU and SDSU did they will certainly have the cart before the horse.

Fits and starts. *Lurching and staggering their way to DI and hopefully back on the NDSU sports schedules. *Thats the way I see their move.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 04:41 PM
Did you guys know that DI-AAA is nonscholarship football (p. 35)?

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 04:50 PM
The stupidest thing I've read in a while:


pg. 7

"Comparison of the adjusted total of $6.9 million to support current UND athletics to the overall Division I-AA average (?) provides an indication of the need for additional funding of about $1 million (excluding facility related costs) is a move to Division I occurs."

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 04:53 PM
I found only one reference to Title IX, which states that Title IX wasn't taken into account when estimating a dollar value.

Sticks
06-01-2006, 05:00 PM
Didn't kuppy say in his infamous email
"Is the level of competition in DIAA really that much better then DII?" *
Yet Bunning states...
“For a university of our stature, Division I is where our peers are currently competing at,” Buning said."

So which is it?

This, I found interesting cause it really is a question to the recent UND athletic alumni....is the competition that much better in DI-AA then it is (or was when NCC was "whole") at DII?

Here's why I ask: Back when the NCC had ten members, it was one of the most competitive, talent-rich conferences in the country (most sports). So for us at the schools that got left behind, our conference got ripped apart and ultimately has turned into conference comparable to NSIC or even Dak-10....it's kind of a joke. I would like to know what it was that made schools like UNC, NDSU, and SDSU jump ship. Was it money? Exposure? ?? Because it certainly wasn't competition. No offense, but I think that UND could still give the SU's a good game (if not beat them) in football.

Somebody please clue me in on why everyone (including us now) is looking at/or already is moving up--cause you're now going from respectable DII program (competitve on a national level) to the bottom of the barrel in DI (playing teams no one's ever heard of).

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 05:01 PM
finding 8 on page 39 has a pretty good scholarship discussion.

It says they will need more than $1.5 million to bring all of their sports to DI maximums including womens hockey which is going to increase anyway. Obviously if they only need about $1 million to make the move they are going to do it on less than max scholarships and no increase in travel or other expenses.

Bison_Dan
06-01-2006, 05:01 PM
The stupidest thing I've read in a while:


pg. 7

"Comparison of the adjusted total of $6.9 million to support current UND athletics to the overall Division I-AA average (?) provides an indication of the need for additional funding of about $1 million (excluding facility related costs) is a move to Division I occurs."



These are the averages I was talking about - The one thing I learned from my brother in law (und grad in accounting) was you never make a business decision based on averages.

mikelsch
06-01-2006, 05:02 PM
The stupidest thing I've read in a while:


pg. 7

"Comparison of the adjusted total of $6.9 million to support current UND athletics to the overall Division I-AA average (?) provides an indication of the need for additional funding of about $1 million (excluding facility related costs) is a move to Division I occurs."



They'll find out that it costs a lot more than an extra $1 million per year. More like an extra $3 million per year than what they are used to. The increased travel, extra scholarships, and increased coaches' salaries add up fast.

IowaBisonToo
06-01-2006, 05:06 PM
[quote author=BisonBacker link=1149105305/15#21 date=1149173973]

Somebody please clue me in on why everyone (including us now) is looking at/or already is moving up--cause you're now going from respectable DII program (competitve on a national level) to the bottom of the barrel in DI (playing teams no one's ever heard of).
Nobodies in what sense? I'm sure when everyone was DII, everyone knew who NDSU, UND, Mankato, etc. were. ::) These aren't no-name teams we are/you would be playing. These are teams with less exposure than say, Minnesota, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, etc. However, they are teams with probably larger followings than say St Cloud, Mankato, Pitt St, etc. Of course, the SUs and Us in the Dakotas were probably the exception to the rule. It's all about exposure to the greater region and even the whole country. Bottom line, it's all about trying to attract more money when looking at it from a peer school point of view.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 05:06 PM
Apparently 5 months isn't long enough to make a couple of charts to identify the athletic profile, enrollment, and profile of a few dozen schools pgs. 25-26.

I could get that done in an afternoon.

For UND, it requires further study.

Flanders
06-01-2006, 05:12 PM
Apparently 5 months isn't long enough to make a couple of charts to identify the athletic profile, enrollment, and profile of a few dozen schools pgs. 25-26.

I could get that done in an afternoon.

For UND, it requires further study.



I wondered how long it would take for this to evolve into a "Smack UND" topic. I guess I have my answer. Are you really going to go through the entire report and point at references and giggle? Maybe you could underline the dirty words and penis references too. It's a report. Not done by consultants. Take it for what it's worth.

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 05:16 PM
Ill take a shot at the guests questions.

NDSU and SDSU moved because their markets could support it. *Both of the Great Land Grant studies identified the markets, the sources of revenue and the overall potential. *They also identified a will to move within the respective communities. *The competition thing was more of a fan based discussion, but obviously goes hand in hand with a move up. *Your kidding yourself if you dont think that means a higher level of competition. *

Even in the old days of the NCC when we had almost as many scholarships as we get in DI now, the game wasn't as good, because as you well know, most of the opponents didn't have that level of talent or number of scholarships. Often the games were lopsided. *Maybe 2 or 3 good games/year.

You may have a good football team, some even brag as good as a DI-AA team, but there are only about 10 other teams in your division that can match up with you. *That is not the case in DI-AA. *Most teams are very good.

Competition isn't the same as name recognition. *Your right about that, but the only reason you know anything about any of the DII teams you play is because you play them. *Its the same for many of our Division I opponents. I dont think thats changed. The NCC wasnt that good when we left.

The general dismissal of being at the bottom of the heap is just that, a generalization, and really means very little.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 05:16 PM
Here's the hidden whopper:

pg. 32 we have to remove one time expenses to get a more accurate recurring expenses number (makes sense to me)

pg. 34 apparently these expenses include facility and maintenance costs and sports camps and ACTUAL one time expenses to bring the $10 million number down to $6.9 million


$3.1 million dollars in one time expenses!

tony
06-01-2006, 05:21 PM
The stupidest thing I've read in a while:

pg. 7

"Comparison of the adjusted total of $6.9 million to support current UND athletics to the overall Division I-AA average (?) provides an indication of the need for additional funding of about $1 million (excluding facility related costs) is a move to Division I occurs."



Hehe. *How about the this "Football is classified as I-A, I-AA or I-AAA. Football under I-AAA is non-scholarship"? I thought that was pretty good. They are comparing UND's budget to the average of a pool of schools that includes many that offer few, if any, football scholarships. DI-AAA means "no football", not "no football scholarships," you goofballs.

It gets better (or worse, depending on your point of view). I did a search for "million" and found:

UND is at about 84 percent of the average level of total expenditures excluding the aspirational schools UND has identified. This equates to about a $2 million dollar difference.

Using the same data, if the UND total were adjusted to exclude facility, one time, and camp expenses, the difference excluding aspirational schools would be $5.1 million.

They are including $3 million in one-time expenses to establish what their current athletic budget is. Based on what UND's recurring expenses are, they should have released a $4 million per year figure to the press. Wow, they've got some brass.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 05:25 PM
Stupid title IX >:(

How will UND deal with Title IX when adding 27 football scholarships?

Was this addressed in the task force report?

Everyone has to read that section.

What a hoot. ;)


See pgs. 40-42 where they are estimating the increased grant-in-aid costs (specifically the table on page 40).

In one of the categories they refer to a max basketball/DI-AA football scholarship scenario (3 new mens bbal, 5 new womens bball, and 27 new football scholarships)
Starting with a base of 124 adding the 35 (plus two hidden schollies) they get to 171

But what about Title IX?

tony
06-01-2006, 05:26 PM
Hehehe. NorthDakotaBison beat me to it!

DIBISON
06-01-2006, 05:33 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. *Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. *Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. *Of course there isnt. *They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." * First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. *Beautiful. *He is ready to retire anyway.

UND only alerted the NCC of their intent to move up, nothing about an official notice of withdrawal.

This is all talk and window dressing anyway. *I think it is funny, Bunnings says we are going DI and the President says - - whoa hold on were not going anywhere just yet. *What a joke!!

That wasn't said. *Do you really think that Buning and Kupchella haven't discussed a game plan concerning this? *I'll clue you in: *Kupchella tells Buning "You be the point man on this. *Go out and deliver the pro-DI speech. *We have a month to get our message across. *At the end of the month I'll give the D-1 move the go-ahead."

Headlines in the same newspaper article:
Bunning: UND going DI
Kupchella: No decision has been made

Yes, I really think Bunning and Kupchella haven't discussed any plan for DI. Otherwise why would there be more embarrassing PR such as these conflicting statements??

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 05:34 PM
It almost looks like they cant pinpoint hockey costs, or wont. I noticed misleading general comparisons in other areas of the report too. The phrase needs more study is also overworked.

If this is the basis of their announcement to move be afraid if your helping to pay their way. It leaves me with the impression they have a long way to go. If this is it the exploratory year has a good chance of turning out to be an expensive, failed experiment.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 05:39 PM
NorthDakotaBison's Opinion

1. The report in and of itself it a piece of garbage. If I paid for it, I'd demand, and not too politely, for a refund.

2. If I had the relationship with UND that I do with NDSU, I'd ask them what the f#$k they are doing, possibly in those words.

3. I believe I was right when I stated that UND should hire this out.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 05:42 PM
I hope they continue to lurch, stagger and false start. Best thing for them would be a decision based on sloppy reasearch and poor planning. Their president stated today they are in no hurry, there is no panic. Of course there isnt. They appear to be on a hell bound train.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128603&section=Sports

Article states they have notified the NCC of their intent to leave, "to start planning a future without UND." First the push RT out and now the crush him by leaving. Beautiful. He is ready to retire anyway.

UND only alerted the NCC of their intent to move up, nothing about an official notice of withdrawal.

This is all talk and window dressing anyway. I think it is funny, Bunnings says we are going DI and the President says - - whoa hold on were not going anywhere just yet. What a joke!!

That wasn't said. Do you really think that Buning and Kupchella haven't discussed a game plan concerning this? I'll clue you in: Kupchella tells Buning "You be the point man on this. Go out and deliver the pro-DI speech. We have a month to get our message across. At the end of the month I'll give the D-1 move the go-ahead."

Headlines in the same newspaper article:
Bunning: UND going DI
Kupchella: No decision has been made

Yes, I really think Bunning and Kupchella haven't discussed any plan for DI. Otherwise why would there be more embarrassing PR such as these conflicting statements??

If you read the report, a move to DI would be crazy.

Two completely unmet concerns.

1) Conference Affiliation-remember they have to have that!?! ;)

2) Accurate financial estimates-something they've demonstrated they have no clue about given the report

Flanders
06-01-2006, 05:49 PM
You seem rather worried about this. Why not just let them fall flat on their faces? If you're so sure of it. Seems like your whistling through a graveyard. You doth protest too much. Or is this how it was when NDSU did it's internal report and the Sioux fans went nuts?

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 06:01 PM
If your going to follow in NDSUs shoes you will need at least another year before you can even have the information needed to make a decision. Then you need 18 months notice to the NCC.

Of course you could run off half cocked and announce a move then do the research. The only risk is the reversal of a Kupchella decision and a move back to DII after the exploratory year, of course he is happy with the completeness of the report. That should give us all confidence if he decides to take the huge risk July 1.

UND92
06-01-2006, 06:12 PM
Ill take a shot at the guests questions.

NDSU and SDSU moved because their markets could support it. Both of the Great Land Grant studies identified the markets, the sources of revenue and the overall potential. They also identified a will to move within the respective communities. The competition thing was more of a fan based discussion, but obviously goes hand in hand with a move up. Your kidding yourself if you dont think that means a higher level of competition.

Even in the old days of the NCC when we had almost as many scholarships as we get in DI now, the game wasn't as good, because as you well know, most of the opponents didn't have that level of talent or number of scholarships. Often the games were lopsided. Maybe 2 or 3 good games/year.

You may have a good football team, some even brag as good as a DI-AA team, but there are only about 10 other teams in your division that can match up with you. That is not the case in DI-AA. Most teams are very good.

Competition isn't the same as name recognition. Your right about that, but the only reason you know anything about any of the DII teams you play is because you play them. Its the same for many of our Division I opponents. I dont think thats changed. The NCC wasnt that good when we left.

The general dismissal of being at the bottom of the heap is just that, a generalization, and really means very little.
Two things JBB. Ndsu's move was football driven. Second, I don't know why you always say the ncc was not that good, you constantly put it down. Do you know in the last 10 years of football in the ncc, half the teams in the conference either won or shared a conference title. That sounds like a good competitive conference to me. The ironic part is, out of half of the teams that won a title, none of them were ndsu or sdsu. So when you keep saying the conference is not that good you are indeed putting your own school down.

jack100
06-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Stupid title IX >:(

How will UND deal with Title IX when adding 27 football scholarships?

Was this addressed in the task force report?

Everyone has to read that section.

What a hoot. ;)


See pgs. 40-42 where they are estimating the increased grant-in-aid costs (specifically the table on page 40).

In one of the categories they refer to a max basketball/DI-AA football scholarship scenario (3 new mens bbal, 5 new womens bball, and 27 new football scholarships)
Starting with a base of 124 adding the 35 (plus two hidden schollies) they get to 171

But what about Title IX?







When NDSU raised football scholarships by 27 - what women's scholarships were added? Maybe a dozen spread across wbb, volleyball, soccer, softball, & track. NDSU did not pay much attention to Title IX in this regard either.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 06:28 PM
Long term Title IX is a must.

To only mention it once, and to completely ignore it as mentioned above is shocking in my opinion.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 06:38 PM
My last gripe: comparable DI institutions.

DI schools that sponsor DIAA football and hockey
New Hampshire and Maine-other than location, these are great comparisons

DI schools that sponsor DIAA football (and not hockey)
NDSU, Idaho State, SDSU, UNI, Montana State, Montana---all relatively good comparisons

DI schools that sponsor DIA football (and not hockey)
Idaho, Utah, New Mexico??? Idaho isn't horrible, but comparing yourself to two schools twice your size in communities twenty times as big as Grand Forks that play DIA football?

Finally Wisconsin, Minnesota, and K State? seriously? I understand the hockey connection with the first two, but seriously? There is no value at all in comparing UND to these schools, other than demonstrating that you have an ego problem.

I think the best, simple peer identifying process is for the organization you identify as a peer to identify you as a peer.

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 07:03 PM
Ill take a shot at the guests questions. *

NDSU and SDSU moved because their markets could support it. *Both of the Great Land Grant studies identified the markets, the sources of revenue and the overall potential. *They also identified a will to move within the respective communities. *The competition thing was more of a fan based discussion, but obviously goes hand in hand with a move up. *Your kidding yourself if you dont think that means a higher level of competition. *

Even in the old days of the NCC when we had almost as many scholarships as we get in DI now, the game wasn't as good, because as you well know, most of the opponents didn't have that level of talent or number of scholarships. Often the games were lopsided. *Maybe 2 or 3 good games/year.

You may have a good football team, some even brag as good as a DI-AA team, but there are only about 10 other teams in your division that can match up with you. *That is not the case in DI-AA. *Most teams are very good.

Competition isn't the same as name recognition. *Your right about that, but the only reason you know anything about any of the DII teams you play is because you play them. *Its the same for many of our Division I opponents. *I dont think thats changed. *The NCC wasnt that good when we left.

The general dismissal of being at the bottom of the heap is just that, a generalization, and really means very little.
Two things JBB. *Ndsu's move was football driven. *Second, I don't know why you always say the ncc was not that good, you constantly put it down. *Do you know in the last 10 years of football in the ncc, half the teams in the conference either won or shared a conference title. *That sounds like a good competitive conference to me. *The ironic part is, out of half of the teams that won a title, none of them were ndsu or sdsu. *So when you keep saying the conference is not that good you are indeed putting your own school down. *

First of all the NDSU move was not football driven. *It was program driven.

Secondly, I dont always say the NCC was not that good. It was competitive but beyond 2 or 3 teams other than NDSU and the NCC football conference was very predictable. *NDSU was always one of the great teams. Maybe, like you pointed out not the best, but one of the 2 or 3 teams in the mix. Otherwise how do you explain winning over 80% of our football games with an average margin of victory of something like 20 pts or more.

Woden
06-01-2006, 07:34 PM
3. It doesn't address the added cost of moving bb into the ralph.


I'll leave the other points alone, but I'm not sure who you've been talking to about basketball at UND, because they have been playing in the Ralph the last couple of years, so there wouldn't be added cost of moving into the Ralph.

IowaBison
06-01-2006, 07:46 PM
Not true. They have played a couple of games at the Ralph, they don't 'play' at the Ralph.

Also, the cost of an event at the Ralph has to be significantly more than a game at the Betty or Hyslop. I'd guess over a 1,000 bucks a game, more for ones that are better attended. I think that is part of the burden of the lodestone UND accepted with the Ralph, amazing facility, amazing maintenance and operations costs.

met1990
06-01-2006, 08:08 PM
I'm a tad bit confused by what is going on at UND. With the deadline extension moved to July 1, it sounds like Buning wants to make a decision regarding a move by then. Is it safe to assume the university isn't going to work with a consultant about the move? Did I miss something while I was out of town this week? I'm an NDSU supporter so I don't really pay that much attention to what UND does, but I'd hate to see them not have the concrete information in place like NDSU did with Carr and Associates.

mikelsch
06-01-2006, 08:09 PM
Stupid title IX * >:(

How will UND deal with Title IX when adding 27 football scholarships?

Was this addressed in the task force report?

Everyone has to read that section.

What a hoot. *;)


See pgs. 40-42 where they are estimating the increased grant-in-aid costs (specifically the table on page 40).

In one of the categories they refer to a max basketball/DI-AA football scholarship scenario (3 new mens bbal, 5 new womens bball, and 27 new football scholarships)
Starting with a base of 124 adding the 35 (plus two hidden schollies) they get to 171

But what about Title IX?







When NDSU raised football scholarships by 27 - what women's scholarships were added? *Maybe a dozen spread across wbb, volleyball, soccer, softball, & track. * NDSU did not pay much attention to Title IX in this regard either.

NDSU did pay attention because it is now close to the max in all its women sports. Title IX review is part of the DI certification process, and there hasn't been any problems to this point.

Bisonguy
06-01-2006, 08:13 PM
[quote author=kchats link=1149105305/0#10 date=1149134011][quote author=JBB link=1149105305/0#6 date=1149113219]

NDSU actually declared the move to DI before UNC did, although UNC is a year ahead of NDSU in the transition.



What day did NDSU declare because UNC declared on May 10, 2002?

Paulie, I stand corrected. :-[NDSU declared on August 31, 2002 (link-NDSU DECISION: School to make move to Division I (http://www.bisonzone.com/index.cfm?page=article_full&id=17059)).

I could have sworn that NDSU declared before UNC, maybe it was just the fact that NDSU could have been at the same point in the transition as UNC.

Bisonguy
06-01-2006, 08:16 PM
After reading the task force report I now know why NDSU had an outside firm do their report. *Here is a list of things I found in the report.

1. *It reads like a advertisement for und athletics
2. *It deals in averages and makes conclusions on averages.
3. *It doesn't address the added cost of moving bb into the ralph.
4. *It mentions that for fb that the alerus has to expand but doesn't factor in that und has no control over that and what the cost would be.
5. *It doesn't do a good job of addressing the the athletic dept as needed personnel for dii or DI.

This report is the reason you can't have people that are in the department or any company do a comprehensive report on themselves. *It just doesn't work.


LOL- It's like having your cousin Vinnie do your taxes. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You get what you pay for.

(no offense intended to anyone that actually has a cousin named Vinnie)

bincitysioux
06-01-2006, 08:57 PM
Not true. *They have played a couple of games at the Ralph, they don't 'play' at the Ralph.


UND played all of their conference home games in the Ralph in 2003-04 and 2004-05.

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 09:04 PM
I dont understand Bunings comment about how expensive it is to get DII teams to Grand Forks. *He was talking BB I think but $6,000 for Bemidji, $4,000 for Crookston. *Arent our football gurantees up around $75,000? *Im sure we are paying more for BB too. *The whole scope of things has to get larger. *I really dont see the value he is talking about. *They have trouble with attendance now.

It was loud and clear when he mentioned DI-A football money though. *The report mentioned it too. *

Flanders
06-01-2006, 09:06 PM
I dont understand Bunings comment about how expensive it is to get DII teams to Grand Forks. He was talking BB I think but $6,000 for Bemidji, $4,000 for Crookston. Arent our football gurantees up around $75,000? Im sure we are paying more for BB too. The whole scope of things has to get larger. I really dont see the value he is talking about. They have trouble with attendance now.

It was loud and clear when he mentioned DI-A football money though. The report mentioned it too.



UND? I don't think so.

tony
06-01-2006, 09:11 PM
Paulie, I stand corrected. *:-[NDSU declared on August 31, 2002 (link-NDSU DECISION: School to make move to Division I (http://www.bisonzone.com/index.cfm?page=article_full&id=17059)).

I could have sworn that NDSU declared before UNC, maybe it was just the fact that NDSU could have been at the same point in the transition as UNC.


You were so close. UNC officially declared they were going DI the day before NDSU announced they were going DI. They may have done unofficial stuff before then but it wasn't definite. NDSU could have been on the same schedule as UNC. The Bunnies didn't declare for DI until 8/15/2003.

http://www.in-forum.com/specials/d1decision/

NDSU DECISION: School to make move to Division I By Jeff Kolpack The Forum - 08/31/2002
UNC exercises Division I option By Jeff Kolpack The Forum - 08/30/2002

mikelsch
06-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Alarming fiscal numbers from page 33 of the report

"Over time, UND Athletics has periodically been provided an institutional subsidy at year end to balance
revenue and expense in addition to base institutional funding already provided. *In the most recently completed fiscal year 2005, Athletics Department expenditures were greater than revenues resulting in the need for a year end subsidy of about $250,000. *The Athletics Department entered fiscal year 2005-06 with projected expenditures exceeding projected revenues by almost $700,000. Since that time, changes have occurred to narrow the projected shortfall, although this is still a moving target."

The report also raises the question of increasing student fees to help pay for the move (page 45)


A political circus would have erupted if NDSU considered a move to DI while having pre-existing budget deficits and considering the increase of student fees to help pay for the move.

BisonBacker
06-01-2006, 09:53 PM
I am enjoying this circus going on up north. It is hilarious that these buffoons are in charge yet the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. That report is so full of holes that anyone reading it just has to laugh and think are they serious? Makes for good posting material though. I may print some out and use it in the bathroom where it belongs ;D

RedRiver
06-01-2006, 09:59 PM
Alarming fiscal numbers from page 33 of the report

"Over time, UND Athletics has periodically been provided an institutional subsidy at year end to balance
revenue and expense in addition to base institutional funding already provided. *In the most recently completed fiscal year 2005, Athletics Department expenditures were greater than revenues resulting in the need for a year end subsidy of about $250,000. *The Athletics Department entered fiscal year 2005-06 with projected expenditures exceeding projected revenues by almost $700,000. Since that time, changes have occurred to narrow the projected shortfall, although this is still a moving target."

The report also raises the question of increasing student fees to help pay for the move (page 45)


A political circus would have erupted if NDSU considered a move to DI while having pre-existing budget deficits and considering the increase of student fees to help pay for the move.

Bunning is quoted in the paper today about financial stability for the DI move. So what is UND going to do, move to DI and then try to resolve their final problems and athletic deficits!

Paulie
06-01-2006, 10:48 PM
When it comes down to it you can't wait to make the move for the finances to be perfect because they never will. Intercollegiate athletics for most schools (with the exception of the Texas', N. Carolinas, Florida States, etc) is a money loser.

So you either have the onions to step up or not, simple as.

broke_back_mnt
06-01-2006, 11:07 PM
I dont understand Bunings comment about how expensive it is to get DII teams to Grand Forks. *He was talking BB I think but $6,000 for Bemidji, $4,000 for Crookston. *Arent our football gurantees up around $75,000? *Im sure we are paying more for BB too. *The whole scope of things has to get larger. *I really dont see the value he is talking about. *They have trouble with attendance now.

It was loud and clear when he mentioned DI-A football money though. *The report mentioned it too. *



UND? *I don't think so.

UND Average football Attendance
2005 - 9,488
2004 - ?
2003 - 9,033
2002 - 9,488
2001 - 10,517

bincitysioux
06-01-2006, 11:51 PM
I dont understand Bunings comment about how expensive it is to get DII teams to Grand Forks. *He was talking BB I think but $6,000 for Bemidji, $4,000 for Crookston. *Arent our football gurantees up around $75,000? *Im sure we are paying more for BB too. *The whole scope of things has to get larger. *I really dont see the value he is talking about. *They have trouble with attendance now.

It was loud and clear when he mentioned DI-A football money though. *The report mentioned it too. *



UND? *I don't think so.

UND Average football Attendance
2005 - 9,488
2004 - ?
2003 - 9,033
2002 - 9,488
2001 - 10,517

2004- 9,327

Excellent point JBB. *UND football attendance averaged over the last 5 seasons is higher than any other 5 year period in UND history, and has gone up in each of the last two seasons. *I believe it is top 5 in DII attendance and if we were DI would be somewhere in the mid 30's. The average I-AA football program draws ~7,500, so no UND doesn't have attendance issues. It is indeed a wonderful time to be a fan of Fighting Sioux Football!! *Now if it is true that UND is going to go DI, it will be an even more exciting atmosphere within the confines of the Alerus Center if UND sees the same 15-25% increase that the novelty of DI brought to both SDSU & NDSU.

broke_back_mnt
06-02-2006, 12:35 AM
If what your saying is your attendance might be workable in DI-AA you are probably right. It is in the top 50 for DI-AA, Im sure.

It doesnt make Bunings statement about value look any better. With your attendance and DII gurantees its going to be a lot easier to make ends meet in DII. You will need a 50% increase in attendance just to keep up with the $75,000 gurantees.

Scooter
06-02-2006, 02:33 AM
UND Average football Attendance
2005 - 9,488
2004 - ?
2003 - 9,033
2002 - 9,488
2001 - 10,517

2004- 9,327

Excellent point JBB. *UND football attendance averaged over the last 5 seasons is higher than any other 5 year period in UND history, and has gone up in each of the last two seasons. *I believe it is top 5 in DII attendance and if we were DI would be somewhere in the mid 30's. *The average I-AA football program draws ~7,500, so no UND doesn't have attendance issues. *It is indeed a wonderful time to be a fan of Fighting Sioux Football!! *Now if it is true that UND is going to go DI, it will be an even more exciting atmosphere within the confines of the Alerus Center if UND sees the same 15-25% increase that the novelty of DI brought to both SDSU & NDSU.

Bincity, you say that UND football attendance is the highest that it's ever been for a five year period- fantastic. *So, you'll be O.K. in 1AA. *Here is the problem with that thinking. *When you say that you are doing just great because you draw more than the average 1AA program, you may be setting yourself up to fail. *

Please use NDSU as an example. *When NDSU was looking at going 1AA they did not look at the numbers for the AVERAGE 1AA team. *The looked at the numbers at the top to get a gage of where they needed to be. *If you look at the numbers for the average school as a benchmark that's just what you are going to be, average. *Please have your administration look at the appropriate numbers before you guys make this important decision.

Here are the numbers that you should be looking at:
1. Montana * * 22,479
2. Delaware * 22,177
3. Yale * * *21,667
4. Southern U 19,888
5. Appalacian St * *17,917
6. Ga Southern 16,241
7. Fl A&M * 15,177
8. Tennesee St 15,023
9. NC A&T *14,610
10 Jackson ST *14,597
11. Youngstown 14,544
12. S Carolina St * *14,266
13. Alabama St 14,182
14. NDSU * *14,160
15. Montana St 13,710 *

kchats
06-02-2006, 04:08 AM
Sounds like a desperate attempt to ride NDSU and SDSU's coat tails into the Mid Con Conference. Buning basically wanted to let the Mid Con know that UND would announce the move if they are offered membership. I guess UND's administration believes they are so great that a conference would immediately admit them over a bunch of schools that are either nearly through the transition or completely through the transition.

I think they are hopeful that the Mid Con invites them as a division II school during their June 27th meeting even though the Mid Con didn't ask for anything from them and had plenty of division I schools to choose from. NDSU and SDSU are 2 years out from being eligible for tourneys and that could hurt their chances but UND can waltz right in because they are UND.

I say if the Mid Con does what is probably and only invites division I schools that are through are nearly through the transition then Kupchella says we will study this further before making a decision while monitoring conference moves in division I. If the Mid Con doesn't make a decision on who to invite during their June 27th meeting we'll see what kind of balls Kupchella has because he might have to announce the move with the hope of getting an invite that in all likelihood won't happen. I think UND gets rebuffed by the Mid Con prior to the June 27th meeting and they then decide to study it further. It will be about 3 years before they do anything.

TheBisonator
06-02-2006, 06:50 AM
Sounds like a desperate attempt to ride NDSU and SDSU's coat tails into the Mid Con Conference. Buning basically wanted to let the Mid Con know that UND would announce the move if they are offered membership. I guess UND's administration believes they are so great that a conference would immediately admit them over a bunch of schools that are either nearly through the transition or completely through the transition.

I think they are hopeful that the Mid Con invites them as a division II school during their June 27th meeting even though the Mid Con didn't ask for anything from them and had plenty of division I schools to choose from. *NDSU and SDSU are 2 years out from being eligible for tourneys and that could hurt their chances but UND can waltz right in because they are UND.

I say if the Mid Con does what is probably and only invites division I schools that are through are nearly through the transition then Kupchella says we will study this further before making a decision while monitoring conference moves in division I. *If the Mid Con doesn't make a decision on who to invite during their June 27th meeting we'll see what kind of balls Kupchella has because he might have to announce the move with the hope of getting an invite that in all likelihood won't happen. *I think UND gets rebuffed by the Mid Con prior to the June 27th meeting and they then decide to study it further. *It will be about 3 years before they do anything.

You're exactly right, kchats. I have no idea why all these UND people (and some Bison people as well!! :o) are starting to talk like this is a done-deal that UND will be moving DI. OK, their AD wants it, but the prez still has the final say. And I think this report he was given yesterday will give him all the excuse to say "We're gonna STAY." I don't believe for one second that Kuppy has EVER wanted for UND to go to DI. I believe he has been against it one way or another this whole time. Remember when he said UND would not move without a conference affiliation first?? Well, now that it was revealed to them that you can now flush that notion down the toilet (something Bison fans have known for over 3 years!!), he has nothing to work from. He has already made up his mind. It's HIS decision, and HIS decision ultimately, and he will say NO.

Another thing, Kupchella and Buning have not been on the same page WHATSOEVER throughout this ENTIRE proccess. This lack of communication has, other than make observers go absolutely insane with speculation, hurt their whole decision proccess. Is Kuppy even the kind of guy who likes to talk or socialize with anybody?? I mean, if you're trying to make a decision on whether or not to move your athletic programs to DI, shouldn't you at least MEET with your AD to make sure you're on the same page?? Because it seems to me from these press releases, they haven't talked to each other for a LOOOOONG time. Hell, if I was Buning, and I was able to chat with Kuppy for 10 minutes, the first thing out of my mouth would be making sure we're together on how to move forward with this. This stumbling and spattering and indecisiveness on UND's part is not in any way helping them in establishing a consensus to DI. It's doing the EXACT opposite. This purgatory between DII and a decision of DI is clusterphucking up EVERYTHING. If you think UND will move to DI, you have to look at what's actually going on. The only person in this snafu who does not have their head up their arse is Buning. The prez and the "committee" have no idea what in God's name they're doing.

Rant off.

tony
06-02-2006, 11:21 AM
I think it's a mistake to ascribe malicious intent to everything UND does. I think Buning thinks going DI is what's best of UND. Who are we to say he's not right? After all, NDSU went DI.

We're whistling in the dark if we don't accept that UND will go DI someday. If they don't, it means that NDSU's foray will have been a disaster or something really bad happened at UND. Neither should be an attractive scenario for anybody.

I'm not sure that what is going on between Kupchella and Buning, but history has shown when Kupchella tries to rein in UND's athletic department, all he gets is public humiliation. Maybe this time he figures that if they are going to do it anyway, he might as well get out in front even if it "makes no otherwise sense."

Yep, I think UND could have done things better. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find one aspect of going DI that UND has not completely bungled, but that just gives us something to tease them about. In the end, we should probably be wishing them luck even as we mock them.

However, If UND purposely underestimates their costs by 200-300% and then rushes to DI without doing any market research, they will be building their DI dream house on a foundation of sand. OTOH, it's an athletic department not a nuclear power plant so if they run into some trouble, they can cut expenses and then build the budget back up as money becomes available.

BisonBacker
06-02-2006, 11:57 AM
Whether they go or not which I believe ultimately they will to me isnt the point. *The point is the way everything has been done dating back to when NDSU declared and how they mocked it and said we would fail ect ect ect. *To me its the height of hypocrisy not to mention that its hard not to get the feeling of NDSU and SDSU doing all the hard work and undII benefiting from it. *There is no way in hell if we (NDSU and SDSU) had not made the move that they undII would even be considering it. *So hence all the talk from up North about how we need them is such a bunch of crap. *Then add to that how some of them relish the fact that both SU's have had no success getting the much wanted BSC invite and all you hear from up north is how without them we don't get in or some other bunch of nonsense. *Then add to that the poor leadership up there and in general how undII has taken every opportunity to be a thorn in the side of NDSU (the thorn is a nice way of saying something else) why the hell would we want to assist them in anyway whatsoever? *Its beyond me, I hope they stay in DII and wallow in the NCC (NO Comeptition Conference) for good. *I don't want to see them in any conference NDSU is in again. *I respect the opinions of others who may disagree with that but that is my opinion and I know I'm not alone. *Many folks go on and on about the "rivalry" which I say is BS. *We've done fine in this transition without them and I say lets continue down that road. *After all they are the high and mighty let them see what its like to finally go on their own instead of following us which is what they have always done and are trying to do again. *It's like having an anchor holding you down. *Regarding the comments in the Foolum today about the GWFC I don't see that being the longterm answer for NDSU or SDSU anyway. *We will have conference affiliation soon and eventually a home for football hopefully in the gateway. *

RedRiver
06-02-2006, 01:14 PM
Headlines in the same newspaper article:
Bunning: *UND going DI
Kupchella: *No decision has been made

Yes, I really think Bunning and Kupchella haven't discussed any plan for DI. *Otherwise why would there be more embarrassing PR such as these conflicting statements??

those headlines say it all ....

For Und's sake I hope they don't move up for a few years.

jack100
06-02-2006, 01:47 PM
Stupid title IX >:(

How will UND deal with Title IX when adding 27 football scholarships?

Was this addressed in the task force report?

Everyone has to read that section.

What a hoot. ;)


See pgs. 40-42 where they are estimating the increased grant-in-aid costs (specifically the table on page 40).

In one of the categories they refer to a max basketball/DI-AA football scholarship scenario (3 new mens bbal, 5 new womens bball, and 27 new football scholarships)
Starting with a base of 124 adding the 35 (plus two hidden schollies) they get to 171

But what about Title IX?







When NDSU raised football scholarships by 27 - what women's scholarships were added? Maybe a dozen spread across wbb, volleyball, soccer, softball, & track. NDSU did not pay much attention to Title IX in this regard either.

NDSU did pay attention because it is now close to the max in all its women sports. Title IX review is part of the DI certification process, and there hasn't been any problems to this point.



So - NDSU increases football scholarships by 27 - where is the corresponding increase in women's scholarships? I'd say that is a big question concerning being Title IX compliant.

RedRiver
06-02-2006, 02:10 PM
You also need to factor in the gender percentages of the general student population to determine the Title IX ratio.

BisonMav
06-02-2006, 02:25 PM
You also need to factor in the gender percentages of the general student population to determine the Title IX ratio.

Isn't NDSU 54% Male, 46% Female?

roadwarrior
06-02-2006, 02:25 PM
So - NDSU increases football scholarships by 27 - where is the corresponding increase in women's scholarships? *I'd say that is a big question concerning being Title IX compliant.

There are different ways to accomplish compliance with Title IX. NDSU is fully aware of implications of increasing men's scholarships. I am not an expert in the field but I heard at a meeting a little over a year ago that NDSU was in good shape as far as Title IX was concerned.

RedRiver
06-02-2006, 09:11 PM
You also need to factor in the gender percentages of the general student population to determine the Title IX ratio.

Isn't NDSU 54% Male, 46% Female?

Yes.

roadwarrior
06-02-2006, 09:15 PM
You also need to factor in the gender percentages of the general student population to determine the Title IX ratio.

This is not always the case.

NanoBison
06-02-2006, 10:06 PM
I'd like to congratulate UND on coming this far, by cooking them something nice to eat. Anybody know any good recipes for Crow? They are going to need a BIG helping.

::)

Mr._Bill
06-03-2006, 01:38 AM
For two people who are supposed to be working together to study and decide the move, the forum quotes from Bun and Kup are unbelieveable. You would swear that they are not even from the same school. If I was seeing that kind of a gap from Taylor and Chapman, I would be pissed and have serious quesitons about their leadership. Bun and Kup are a million miles apart . . . this is unbelieveable, almost comical!

What is Bunning trying to do? Why would he be going so far about the D1 move when you know he is in left field compared to most in leadership at und. I think he is simply trying to entice the Mid Con for the June meeting, then und will go back into their reseach mode after they are rejected.

NDSU has always taken challenges head on and worked for it, and und has always had a silver spoon. I don't know if they have it in them to face adversity . . . we'll see.

kchats
06-03-2006, 03:00 AM
Tony what is malicious about pointing out what UND is trying to do? *They are grasping at our coat tails and are hoping they can grab on and slip into the Mid Con by doing nothing that earned them the privilege of joining the conference. *In case people are wondering what I mean when I state they are riding our coat tails for the conference and therefore the division I issue maybe this will explain it to you. * I posted it on Bison Zone Media Blog in response to a poster wondering why we say they are riding our coat tails. *He also asked who paved the way for NDSU and SDSU.

NDSU and SDSU have made a move to division I and have completed 3 years of their transition. During this 3 year period NDSU and SDSU have been communicating with division I conferences regarding possible membership. NDSU and SDSU have also been playing teams from these conferences and representing themselves very well. Meanwhile UND has been sitting there trying very hard to not make a decision and hoping that something good will happen for them. NDSU and SDSU did not have anyone pave the way for them they did this move as partners and have been instrumental in the formation of a football conference, a wrestling conference, a soccer conference and a basketball scheduling alliance. UND wouldn't even be thinking of division I if not for the success of NDSU and SDSU and division I conferences would not be considering any of the schools if NDSU and SDSU had not made the move to division I. The Mid Con Conference that UND is now trying to get into has no knowledge of UND whatsoever so I don't know where they think they will get an invite. Basically any invite that might (and it's a big might since division I conferences don't want to carry dead weight for 5 years) come UND's way would only be because of the hard work of NDSU and SDSU's administrations in moving up to division I and promoting themselves as possible conference members. If that isn't a coat tail ride then I don't know what one is. :)

DIBISON
06-03-2006, 05:10 AM
For two people who are supposed to be working together to study and decide the move, the forum quotes from Bun and Kup are unbelieveable. *You would swear that they are not even from the same school. *If I was seeing that kind of a gap from Taylor and Chapman, I would be pissed and have serious quesitons about their leadership. *Bun and Kup are a million miles apart . . . this is unbelieveable, almost comical! *

What is Bunning trying to do? *Why would he be going so far about the D1 move when you know he is in left field compared to most in leadership at und. *I think he is simply trying to entice the Mid Con for the June meeting, then und will go back into their reseach mode after they are rejected.

NDSU has always taken challenges head on and worked for it, and und has always had a silver spoon. *I don't know if they have it in them to face adversity . . . we'll see.

Flanders says that Bunning and Kupchella have been talking about the move to DI and that this reaction is their plan of action. Its funny because after people read their quotes in the Forum article they ended up laughing!! One says we are going DI and the other says no decision has been made. Just more negative PR for UND. Are you going or not??

rabidrabbit
06-03-2006, 12:55 PM
Tony what is malicious about pointing out what UND is trying to do? *They are grasping at our coat tails and are hoping they can grab on and slip into the Mid Con by doing nothing that earned them the privilege of joining the conference. *In case people are wondering what I mean when I state they are riding our coat tails for the conference and therefore the division I issue maybe this will explain it to you. * I posted it on Bison Zone Media Blog in response to a poster wondering why we say they are riding our coat tails. *He also asked who paved the way for NDSU and SDSU.

NDSU and SDSU have made a move to division I and have completed 3 years of their transition. During this 3 year period NDSU and SDSU have been communicating with division I conferences regarding possible membership. NDSU and SDSU have also been playing teams from these conferences and representing themselves very well. Meanwhile UND has been sitting there trying very hard to not make a decision and hoping that something good will happen for them. NDSU and SDSU did not have anyone pave the way for them they did this move as partners and have been instrumental in the formation of a football conference, a wrestling conference, a soccer conference and a basketball scheduling alliance. UND wouldn't even be thinking of division I if not for the success of NDSU and SDSU and division I conferences would not be considering any of the schools if NDSU and SDSU had not made the move to division I. The Mid Con Conference that UND is now trying to get into has no knowledge of UND whatsoever so I don't know where they think they will get an invite. Basically any invite that might (and it's a big might since division I conferences don't want to carry dead weight for 5 years) come UND's way would only be because of the hard work of NDSU and SDSU's administrations in moving up to division I and promoting themselves as possible conference members. If that isn't a coat tail ride then I don't know what one is. :)

Kchats - Good post. There would be no angst in GF but for the success of the Bison and the Jacks. A big part of that success is the "2fer" effect that the SU's have. UND used to be the other half of that for NDSU, now that's the Jacks. The ONLY WAY that UND goes DI and succeeds is through and by the support and help from the other two schools. IF THEY GO DI, Bison and Bunnies will have them on double duals so fast that our heads will spinning, because of the low cost. IF WE GET a mid-con invite (extremely likely, especially if wanting to consolidate mid-con/GWFC), in a couple of years, when some other school leaves or goes out of sports, then we'll support UND's application, ASSUMING THAT THEY ARE MOSTLY THRU TRANSITION, like we are now. As of yet, we're not on the inside to make that happen.

There are few, if any, clearer definitions of coat-tail riding than this.

SloStang
06-03-2006, 01:32 PM
The MidCon can treat UND like the Big West treats UC Davis. Davis will become a full member when their transition period is done, but they have a full Big West schedule in all sports until then. They are not counted in the standings and records, but it helps them with their scheduling. This is done because it helps them with their transition and gives the conference a stronger team that has already started to build rivals when the transition is done. The conference also does not risk losing an autobid if Davis should win the conference.

I think that UND is riding the coat tails of SDSU and NDSU and they will benifit from the hard work of both schools, but they can not make up for the lost years that the SDSU and NDSU have put in and it will take years for them to catch up. NDSU and SDSU have the advantage in recruiting and national exposure over UND because they are already established and that will be hard to make up.

kchats
06-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Great Points SloStang. I don't think the Mid Con will do that however. I know the Big West is doing it for UC-Davis but didn't they aske UC-Davis to move up? The Mid Con isn't asking UND to move up and has plenty of other applicants that are nearly through the transition or that are completely through the transition. I think it is far more likely that they have to go through the transition as an independent and get consideration in their third year if an opening comes along due to a school leaving.

kchats
06-03-2006, 03:37 PM
Here is the definition from Wikipedia:


Riding coattails is a political metaphor that refers to the way in which lower level or uninspiring politicians can often get elected through their ties to another, more popular and successful political figure.

rabidrabbit
06-03-2006, 11:12 PM
Great Points SloStang. *I don't think the Mid Con will do that however. *I know the Big West is doing it for UC-Davis but didn't they aske UC-Davis to move up? *The Mid Con isn't asking UND to move up and has plenty of other applicants that are nearly through the transition or that are completely through the transition. *I think it is far more likely that they have to go through the transition as an independent and get consideration in their third year if an opening comes along due to a school leaving.

Yes, while I believe that _DSU's will be selected by the mid-con in the next selection, IMHO UND focused on the wrong election (big sky) and didn't even approach mid-con until after the primaries. Therefore, UND will NOT be able to be elected THIS Ballot to the mid-con, but hopefully, this will fuel their drive to DECISIVELY GO D-I, and on future ballots they will be found worthy. But like any political act, and we know that there are PLENTY of POLITICS in the NCAA, people need to know your views before voting you in. UND hasn't decided what view they want to show, and therefore, nobody's going to select them now.

BTW slo - the UC-Davis - Big West situation is the right model for UND, and if SDSU/NDSU are on the inside we could influence the conference toward that. But need to be working from the inside, much as Poly probably pushed to have Davis in Big West, not as an outsider hoping to get into the club yourself.

Wyoherdman
06-04-2006, 01:03 PM
I know there's never been alot of love for McFeeley on this board, but I sure liked his article in today's Forum pointing out und's hypocrisy on this whole D-1 move. Good for him!

bisonmike
06-04-2006, 01:24 PM
I know there's never been alot of love for McFeeley on this board, but I sure liked his article in today's Forum pointing out und's hypocrisy on this whole D-1 move. *Good for him!

McFeeley's article today was probably one of the best I have read in a long time

broke_back_mnt
06-04-2006, 02:48 PM
http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128935&section=Columnists&columnist=M ike%20McFeely

Theres the link. Its a good article. He seems to have forgotten that his position on DI was very negative as well. Negative and smacky enough that the Forum almost had to ban him! :)

Bisonguy
06-04-2006, 03:07 PM
McFeely's column is by far the most objective view of UND's 'process' of looking at DI.

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 03:20 PM
I love how you guys hate McFeely when he says bad stuff about NDSU and love him when he says bad stuff about UND.


McFeely is damn good at his job: pissing people off.


And he doesn't care who he pisses off. NDSU, UND, or MSU. Any and all.



As far as UND moving DI. It's happening.


The Mid Con and the esp. the Great West need them to survive. So I don't want to hear a bunch of crap about riding coattails.

gcichy
06-04-2006, 03:33 PM
UND has no choice but to be D-1. * They (UND) are afriad that NDSU will be the "University of Choice" in North Dakota. * *:) :) NDSU *has a great University President, Athletic Director, Football Coach, Basketball coach etc etc etc. *UND is running scare!!!!! Just read the posts on SUESports.com. *All I can say GO Bision Bison, GO. *I waiting for the first Bison - UND game Football game in D-1. Be there or Be sqaure :) :) :) *

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 03:34 PM
Well said gcichy.

NanoBison
06-04-2006, 04:34 PM
The MidCon, after it accepts IPFW, NDSU and SDSU will not need the school up north to survive.

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 04:35 PM
The MidCon, after it accepts IPFW, NDSU and SDSU will not need the school up north to survive.


They'd just be stupid not to accept them as other schools are likely to leave the MidCon (ORU, WIU).

NebraskaBISON
06-04-2006, 04:56 PM
I love how you guys hate McFeely when he says bad stuff about NDSU and love him when he says bad stuff about UND.


McFeely is damn good at his job: pissing people off.


And he doesn't care who he pisses off. NDSU, UND, or MSU. Any and all.



As far as UND moving DI. It's happening.


The Mid Con and the esp. the Great West need them to survive. So I don't want to hear a bunch of crap about riding coattails.

I'd have to disagree. I really don't care that once every three months or so he writes something that doesn't completely suck. Any good sports writer from could see right through this guy. It's a shame that a growing city like Fargo has this guy as their main sports guy. And it's not even that people disagree with a lot of his stuff, most high school kids could write something more intellegent. He just thinks he's cool by being Mr. Controversy. Also, he should get a new pic, what's with that necklace he's got on?

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 04:59 PM
I wouldn't consider him a main sports guy.

I would say Hallstrom, if anyone, would take that honor.

NanoBison
06-04-2006, 05:01 PM
Well, I'm not going to be one to tell a Conference how they run their operations. But I can see the arguement, since if NDSU was to ever get an invite from the BigTease, we obviously jump ship in a heart beat.

Flanders
06-04-2006, 05:16 PM
The MidCon, after it accepts IPFW, NDSU and SDSU will not need the school up north to survive.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong than this. This is one post I'm going to save.

kchats
06-04-2006, 05:46 PM
I love how you guys hate McFeely when he says bad stuff about NDSU and love him when he says bad stuff about UND.


McFeely is damn good at his job: pissing people off.


And he doesn't care who he pisses off. NDSU, UND, or MSU. Any and all.



As far as UND moving DI. It's happening.


The Mid Con and the esp. the Great West need them to survive. So I don't want to hear a bunch of crap about riding coattails.

When did you graduate from UND? You sure are all for them getting into a conference without paying their dues. UND has shown absolutely nothing in division I to prove they will be a successful division I program. The Mid Con has plenty of schools that are completely through the transition or nearly through the transition that they won't be desperate enough to add a division II school that hasn't even made up its mind about division I. After UND makes it through the transition process (alone since they did everything in their power to avoid moving up and working with NDSU and SDSU during the transition) and when they are nearly eligible they might be fortunate enough to find a conference with an opening that might consider them.

kchats
06-04-2006, 05:54 PM
Here is the email I sent to Mike McFeely after reading his article today. I for one am glad that somebody finally put it in writing. I wish he would have put all the quotes in the paper so the general public could read them as UND now changes its position 180 degrees. I wish he would have expanded on the fact that UND had done nothing at all during this transition period and expected to get invited into a conference based on NDSU and SDSU's hard work. That would have nailed the whole issue on the head and painted a true picture of what they are up. If you notice I have also included a great fundraising idea for them as they try to grab our coat tails on the way into the Mid Con. Who wouldn't pay to watch all the UND naysayers eat platefuls of crow served in many different ways? ;)

Mr. McFeely,
Great column. I'm glad somebody put it in writing because the UND folks will just gloss it over. They treated NDSU horribly for moving up to division I and also disparaged division I in the process. They are now trying as hard as they can to grab onto NDSU's coat tails and slip into the Mid Continent Conference. Talk about trying to get something for doing absolutely nothing that is what they are trying to do. Their study that was just submitted to President Kupchella was a joke and if they really want an objective look they should have hired an outside consultant to study it for them. They are arrogant enough up there to still believe their programs are better than NDSU's and SDSU's even though they are 4 to 6 years behind them in the transition. When they make the move they will quickly learn otherwise. I too await watching them eat their heaping plate of crow. Maybe the NDSU Administration can cook up a few platefuls of crow and ship them up to UND. That would be a great fundraiser as they desperately try to catch up to both NDSU and SDSU.

Hail The Bison!
kchats

NanoBison
06-04-2006, 06:34 PM
The MidCon, after it accepts IPFW, NDSU and SDSU will not need the school up north to survive.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong than this. This is one post I'm going to save.


That's fine with me Flanders. Keep it so we can read it over again when I'm serving everyone a helping of crow around the table. We'll have a good laugh. We'll at least I will. This batch of crow is going to be a good one... Yummmmmy.

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 07:13 PM
When did you graduate from UND? *You sure are all for them getting into a conference without paying their dues. *UND has shown absolutely nothing in division I to prove they will be a successful division I program. *The Mid Con has plenty of schools that are completely through the transition or nearly through the transition that they won't be desperate enough to add a division II school that hasn't even made up its mind about division I. *After UND makes it through the transition process (alone since they did everything in their power to avoid moving up and working with NDSU and SDSU during the transition) and when they are nearly eligible they might be fortunate enough to find a conference with an opening that might consider them.


You and most of the NDSU fans on this board are blinded by hate.

It's sad.


The Mid Con doesn't really need to add NDSU and SDSU to their conference. All they really need is another DI team to make sure they have seven core members should another school jump the Mid Con ship. I have to think that Western IL, ORU, and Oakland are going to be looking nice for some conferences (MVC and Horizon) should the A10 and others come calling after the Big East does its next raid of the CUSA.

Hear me when I say this: if the Mid Con doesn't have seven core members, they don't get an autobid to the NCAA tournament and they don't get money from the NCAA tournament. You obviously have no clue how devastating that would be to the Mid Con.

The Mid Con needs to add IPFW and would probably like to add UVSC to get a travel partner for SUU. That brings them back to nine after Valpo leaves. Add three more and you have a stable conference of 12 (NDSU, SDSU, and UND).

When the next raid happens and the A10 takes members from the MVC and Horizon, those conferences will take members from the Mid Con and new moves ups like USD, Mankato, and Saint Cloud will have their chance at the Mid Con as well.


That's not even saying anything about the Great West.

If the Great West ever wants a chance at an autobid, it needs six members. Adding UND gives us six.



I don't give a crap if UND moved up 1 minute before the deadline. I don't care if they ride our coattails. We're going to use them (autobids/protect current autobid and for huge money Bison-Sioux games at NDSU) just like they're going to use us.


If that makes you mad, I don't care.

NebraskaBISON
06-04-2006, 07:36 PM
Here is the email I sent to Mike McFeely after reading his article today. I for one am glad that somebody finally put it in writing. I wish he would have put all the quotes in the paper so the general public could read them as UND now changes its position 180 degrees. I wish he would have expanded on the fact that UND had done nothing at all during this transition period and expected to get invited into a conference based on NDSU and SDSU's hard work. That would have nailed the whole issue on the head and painted a true picture of what they are up. If you notice I have also included a great fundraising idea for them as they try to grab our coat tails on the way into the Mid Con. Who wouldn't pay to watch all the UND naysayers eat platefuls of crow served in many different ways? ;)

Mr. McFeely,
Great column. I'm glad somebody put it in writing because the UND folks will just gloss it over. They treated NDSU horribly for moving up to division I and also disparaged division I in the process. They are now trying as hard as they can to grab onto NDSU's coat tails and slip into the Mid Continent Conference. Talk about trying to get something for doing absolutely nothing that is what they are trying to do. Their study that was just submitted to President Kupchella was a joke and if they really want an objective look they should have hired an outside consultant to study it for them. They are arrogant enough up there to still believe their programs are better than NDSU's and SDSU's even though they are 4 to 6 years behind them in the transition. When they make the move they will quickly learn otherwise. I too await watching them eat their heaping plate of crow. Maybe the NDSU Administration can cook up a few platefuls of crow and ship them up to UND. That would be a great fundraiser as they desperately try to catch up to both NDSU and SDSU.

Hail The Bison!
kchats

I'm a big NDSU fan, sounds like you are too. But c'mon, you're getting a little too worked up about this. The whole coat tails analogy has been used to death. At least come up with a new way to say it. And all this speculation, you would think you all were personal friends with all these commissioners and school presidents. It's all speculation that some people are trying to pass off as gospel.

kchats
06-04-2006, 08:28 PM
OK NebraskaBison and MplsBison can you tell why you think UND deserves consideration for membership in the Mid Con? Can you also tell me what UND has done during this past 3 years to show division I conferences that they are worthy of membership in a division I conference? Have they declared their intentions to make a move to division I (Buning stating when not if doesn't count)? Have they been involved in conference formation meetings which formed the Great West Football Conference, United Soccer Conference, the Western Wrestling Conference and the basketball scheduling alliance? Have they played in games against marquee programs and showed not only the ability to be quite competitive but to actually win the game? Have the demonstrated the ability to schedule games with a strong RPI in division I which shows the conference that adding them will improve the conference?

We haven't even made it past the 4 year contract that NDSU offered UND to continue playing us with home and home games. UND could still have been playing NDSU but they spit on the contract and our administration and coaches and now you think they are the school that will save the Mid Con Conference?! >:(

Can you please tell me why the Mid Con wouldn't be better off adding IUPFW, Texas Pan Am , Utah Valley State etc. over division II schools that haven't even started the transition? Can you honestly tell me that UND has a better division I program than any of the schools I listed above? Can you tell me why you think UND will be a great addition to a basketball conference? Other than their hockey team, football team, possibly their swimming and diving team and their women's basketball team which other team of theirs makes the conference stronger? The hockey team is irrelevant when talking Mid Con as is the football team. Their men's basketball program is down but could eventually get up and be respectable but their other programs have shown nothing in division II so why expect it in division I? You seem to forget that UND hasn't even started the transition therefore it is about 6 years off before you can even begin the clock of them helping retain an autobid. I think you are blinded by past association with them and are giving them more credit than they deserve.

If the Mid Con is truly worried about an autobid you grab all the schools that are eligible now and call that a good expansion. That possibility makes me think NDSU and SDSU could be left out in the cold and you don't even anticipate that happening. You have already got the Mid Con as all former NCC schools and I just don't see that happening. UND might be a good addition for a football only conference but their committment to the other programs that would partake in the Mid Con leaves alot to be desired. Women's basketball isn't going to be a program that they say well they are good in that lets bring them on.

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 08:35 PM
kchats, you hate UND and don't want them to get anything DI because they're UND.

You won't even attempt any sort of logic or reason beyond that.



I don't feel that way about them. I think they can help the Mid Con and the Great West.


We'll see what the Mid Con does on the 27th and leave it at that.

Bison_Pride
06-04-2006, 08:45 PM
It UND declares they are going division I the Mid-Con will take a serious look at them. Regardless of all the Da Vinci Code - like conspiracy theories out there it comes down to a business decision on their part. They couldn't care less about the rivalry, in fact, it would probably play in UND favor as it would bring more recognition to the conference. If some way the Mid-Con could add NDSU, SDSU, and UND, they could in a few years, have one of the best mid-major conferences in the country.

My attitude it this, if UND declares, great! We get to dominate them on the field/floor now, instead of fighting our battles on the message boards. And if they don't declare, that's fine too. NDSU will take it's rightly place as the premier Athletic institution in North Dakota.

Looks like a win/win situation to me, why don't more people see it that way?

kchats
06-04-2006, 08:46 PM
Answer my questions MplsBison. >:( Tell me which programs UND has that make them a great addition to a division I conference that sponsors basketball as its main sport. Let me hear all the history of success of these programs they have. Volleyball? Track & Field? Softball? Baseball? Golf? Soccer?

I also didn't see any answers regarding why the Mid Con will pick us, SDSU or UND over the other programs that are already through the transition. Why do you think NDSU, SDSU and UND have any right to claim we are better than the current schools in the Mid Con? Have we been members of an established division I conference? When NDSU finally gets into a conference they won't be the top dog, they will have to improve and continue to improve to get there and stay there. We are not where we want to be with any program yet. We have shown promise but that is all. Now we must show consistency in having winning seasons and competing for and winning conference championships before we can be considered the school that is the cornerstone of a conference. Don't give me this BS about three transitioning schools saving a conference. The conference has alot more to offer us than we do them at this point in time and membership would be our privilege not our right.

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 09:14 PM
It UND declares they are going division I the Mid-Con will take a serious look at them. *Regardless of all the Da Vinci Code - like conspiracy theories out there it comes down to a business decision on their part. *They couldn't care less about the rivalry, in fact, it would probably play in UND favor as it would bring more recognition to the conference. *If some way the Mid-Con could add NDSU, SDSU, and UND, they could in a few years, have one of the best mid-major conferences in the country.

My attitude it this, if UND declares, great! * We get to dominate them on the field/floor now, instead of fighting our battles on the message boards. *And if they don't declare, that's fine too. *NDSU will take it's rightly place as the premier Athletic institution in North Dakota.

Looks like a win/win situation to me, why don't more people see it that way?

Absolutely!

This is the attitude we need to adopt.

MplsBison
06-04-2006, 09:18 PM
Answer my questions MplsBison. >:( *Tell me which programs UND has that make them a great addition to a division I conference that sponsors basketball as its main sport. *Let me hear all the history of success of these programs they have. *Volleyball? *Track & Field? Softball? Baseball? Golf? Soccer? *

I also didn't see any answers regarding why the Mid Con will pick us, SDSU or UND over the other programs that are already through the transition. *Why do you think NDSU, SDSU and UND have any right to claim we are better than the current schools in the Mid Con? *Have we been members of an established division I conference? *When NDSU finally gets into a conference they won't be the top dog, they will have to improve and continue to improve to get there and stay there. *We are not where we want to be with any program yet. *We have shown promise but that is all. *Now we must show consistency in having winning seasons and competing for and winning conference championships before we can be considered the school that is the cornerstone of a conference. *Don't give me this BS about three transitioning schools saving a conference. *The conference has alot more to offer us than we do them at this point in time and membership would be our privilege not our right.

As far as the Mid Con is concerned, the best thing NDSU, SDSU, and UND have to offer is basketball potential.

All three are potential tournament 12 seeds like Montana was last season. Maybe even win the first round.

All three are flagship public schools, something the Mid Con does not have at the moment.


That's what the three dakota schools have to offer.

broke_back_mnt
06-04-2006, 09:26 PM
Growth is inevitable. *Kepechulla says when the pluses outnumber the minuses they will move up. *They will move. *When they do, in time they will be in the Mid-Con/GWFC or the BSC or something else. *

If it looks like we will play again we could sign them to a 2 for 1 home/home. *They will come to Fargo Twice in a row. *Same thing in all the sports. *I doubt we will play them in their exploratory yr but who knows? *Certainly we wont do that if its next season. *

They seem to be in a reckless hurry. *They need NDSU. *If they arent in a conference with us we may give them a rotational game for a guarantee, but I doubt we would travel up there. *We have a bigger stadium and wont travel much at all, especially as we get more established. *In fact, that might be how it goes until they get into the GWFC. *They come to Fargo for a Bus Ticket and lunch.

I can assure you of this, nobody cares about the coat tails beyond this board. *On the other hand we will be in first. *They should keep that in mind.

Filbert seems to have a great handle on the situation. *Its probably a couple of more yrs before we are actually in.

NebraskaBISON
06-04-2006, 10:11 PM
OK NebraskaBison and MplsBison can you tell why you think UND deserves consideration for membership in the Mid Con? Can you also tell me what UND has done during this past 3 years to show division I conferences that they are worthy of membership in a division I conference? Have they declared their intentions to make a move to division I (Buning stating when not if doesn't count)? Have they been involved in conference formation meetings which formed the Great West Football Conference, United Soccer Conference, the Western Wrestling Conference and the basketball scheduling alliance? Have they played in games against marquee programs and showed not only the ability to be quite competitive but to actually win the game? Have the demonstrated the ability to schedule games with a strong RPI in division I which shows the conference that adding them will improve the conference?

We haven't even made it past the 4 year contract that NDSU offered UND to continue playing us with home and home games. UND could still have been playing NDSU but they spit on the contract and our administration and coaches and now you think they are the school that will save the Mid Con Conference?! >:(

Can you please tell me why the Mid Con wouldn't be better off adding IUPFW, Texas Pan Am , Utah Valley State etc. over division II schools that haven't even started the transition? Can you honestly tell me that UND has a better division I program than any of the schools I listed above? Can you tell me why you think UND will be a great addition to a basketball conference? Other than their hockey team, football team, possibly their swimming and diving team and their women's basketball team which other team of theirs makes the conference stronger? The hockey team is irrelevant when talking Mid Con as is the football team. Their men's basketball program is down but could eventually get up and be respectable but their other programs have shown nothing in division II so why expect it in division I? You seem to forget that UND hasn't even started the transition therefore it is about 6 years off before you can even begin the clock of them helping retain an autobid. I think you are blinded by past association with them and are giving them more credit than they deserve.

If the Mid Con is truly worried about an autobid you grab all the schools that are eligible now and call that a good expansion. That possibility makes me think NDSU and SDSU could be left out in the cold and you don't even anticipate that happening. You have already got the Mid Con as all former NCC schools and I just don't see that happening. UND might be a good addition for a football only conference but their committment to the other programs that would partake in the Mid Con leaves alot to be desired. Women's basketball isn't going to be a program that they say well they are good in that lets bring them on.


I'm not a UND fan obviously, and no I hope they don't end up where we end up enventually. That wouldn't be right because if NDSU hadn't pulled the trigger a few years back, they'd never have even thought of D1 and we'd all be still doing the NCC thing. But your whole "coat tails" argument and dispise for them is just repetitive and stale. Don't take it personally, in fact we probably agree on a lot of points here. I'd like them to be D2 forever and have NDSU be the best (and only) thing going in ND ncaa athletics for the forseeable future. Just think you're getting a little worked up and defensive. Whatever happens, happens. It's not the end of the world.

roadwarrior
06-04-2006, 10:54 PM
Why do some of you get so worked up about what another member says??

Its just a bunch of opinions from people that dont really matter when it comes time for any conference to decide what its going to do.

buffalobilljr
06-05-2006, 10:31 AM
Growth is inevitable. *Kepechulla says when the pluses outnumber the minuses they will move up. *They will move. *When they do, in time they will be in the Mid-Con/GWFC or the BSC or something else. *

If it looks like we will play again we could sign them to a 2 for 1 home/home. *They will come to Fargo Twice in a row. *Same thing in all the sports. *I doubt we will play them in their exploratory yr but who knows? *Certainly we wont do that if its next season. *

They seem to be in a reckless hurry. *They need NDSU. *If they arent in a conference with us we may give them a rotational game for a guarantee, but I doubt we would travel up there. *We have a bigger stadium and wont travel much at all, especially as we get more established. *In fact, that might be how it goes until they get into the GWFC. *They come to Fargo for a Bus Ticket and lunch.

I can assure you of this, nobody cares about the coat tails beyond this board. *On the other hand we will be in first. *They should keep that in mind.

Filbert seems to have a great handle on the situation. *Its probably a couple of more yrs before we are actually in.
AS ABRAHAM LINCOLN SO APTLY STATED MANY YEARS AGO.
"WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE AND CHARITY FOR ALL"
AMAZING THINGS HAPPEN AFTER A CIVIL WAR IS OVER.

Paulie
06-05-2006, 02:34 PM
Growth is inevitable. *Kepechulla says when the pluses outnumber the minuses they will move up. *They will move. *When they do, in time they will be in the Mid-Con/GWFC or the BSC or something else. *

If it looks like we will play again we could sign them to a 2 for 1 home/home. *They will come to Fargo Twice in a row. *Same thing in all the sports. *I doubt we will play them in their exploratory yr but who knows? *Certainly we wont do that if its next season. *

They seem to be in a reckless hurry. *They need NDSU. *If they arent in a conference with us we may give them a rotational game for a guarantee, but I doubt we would travel up there. *We have a bigger stadium and wont travel much at all, especially as we get more established. *In fact, that might be how it goes until they get into the GWFC. *They come to Fargo for a Bus Ticket and lunch.

I can assure you of this, nobody cares about the coat tails beyond this board. *On the other hand we will be in first. *They should keep that in mind.

Filbert seems to have a great handle on the situation. *Its probably a couple of more yrs before we are actually in.
AS ABRAHAM LINCOLN SO APTLY STATED MANY YEARS AGO.
"WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE AND CHARITY FOR ALL"
AMAZING THINGS HAPPEN AFTER A CIVIL WAR IS OVER.

He also said "If you are racist I will attack you with the North."

broke_back_mnt
06-05-2006, 03:44 PM
If we have a new future, like "The South" had after the civil war, what is it? *Does anybody know? *Bill is this just a hope you have that all will be well? *If it is my advice is to look at history or you are doomed to repeat it. *

I dont think NDSU wants to repeat the history we have with Und. *Its going to take some objective and overt behavior on their part, including a change in leadership, before Im in favor of a cooperative partnership. *I hold out as a recent example the on-line pharmacy.

The civil war ended with a peace treaty and wholesale change of leadership in "The South". *

Sticks
06-05-2006, 04:15 PM
If we have a new future, like "The South" had after the civil war, what is it? *Does anybody know? *Bill is this just a hope you have that all will be well? *If it is my advice is to look at history or you are doomed to repeat it. *

I dont think NDSU wants to repeat the history we have with UND. *Its going to take some objective and overt behavior on their part, including a change in leadership, before Im in favor of a cooperative partnership. *I hold out as a recent example the on-line pharmacy.

The civil war ended with a peace treaty and wholesale change of leadership in "The South". *

Why not? *The NDSU/UND history goes back almost to when Moses wore short pants. *It has been a phenomenal, competitive, and anything but one-sided rivalry. *If we could wind up playing each other again on a higher level, what's the harm in that? *Is there a REAL down side to something like this happening besides the fact that you don't want us eating at the big boy table with you? *

I for one think it would be great for both communities and schools to get this rivalry flaring again.

BisonBacker
06-05-2006, 04:39 PM
If we have a new future, like "The South" had after the civil war, what is it? *Does anybody know? *Bill is this just a hope you have that all will be well? *If it is my advice is to look at history or you are doomed to repeat it. *

I dont think NDSU wants to repeat the history we have with Und. *Its going to take some objective and overt behavior on their part, including a change in leadership, before Im in favor of a cooperative partnership. *I hold out as a recent example the on-line pharmacy.

The civil war ended with a peace treaty and wholesale change of leadership in "The South". *

JBB I'm with you on this one and so are many others.

broke_back_mnt
06-05-2006, 04:49 PM
Thank you BisonBacker. I remain interested but dont really care what they do because the "rivalry" has been anything but good for both communities and both universities. It has been divisive and destructive and sometimes completely unethical as the on-line pharmacy scandal shows. Their desperation or eagerness to "join us at the big boys table" is clear evidence who needs who.

IowaBisonToo
06-05-2006, 05:01 PM
JBB, I tend to agree with you and Backer, too. Now, does UND offer exciting athletics? Sure depending on what your preference is. Does UND offer good academic programs? Of course. The problem is in the administration. ND is to small a place for two schools the size of NDSU and UND to be fighting over the same territory in some instances. But with administration like UND has, there will always be an attitude of, "Hey, they have it, we should steal it or do better at it (if we can)." or something to that effect. I blame it on Kup and how he runs that school (along with former AD great ::), RT). I think things would be a little different had those two never seen the inside of that university.

buffalobill
06-05-2006, 06:52 PM
Growth is inevitable. *Kepechulla says when the pluses outnumber the minuses they will move up. *They will move. *When they do, in time they will be in the Mid-Con/GWFC or the BSC or something else. *

If it looks like we will play again we could sign them to a 2 for 1 home/home. *They will come to Fargo Twice in a row. *Same thing in all the sports. *I doubt we will play them in their exploratory yr but who knows? *Certainly we wont do that if its next season. *

They seem to be in a reckless hurry. *They need NDSU. *If they arent in a conference with us we may give them a rotational game for a guarantee, but I doubt we would travel up there. *We have a bigger stadium and wont travel much at all, especially as we get more established. *In fact, that might be how it goes until they get into the GWFC. *They come to Fargo for a Bus Ticket and lunch.

I can assure you of this, nobody cares about the coat tails beyond this board. *On the other hand we will be in first. *They should keep that in mind.

Filbert seems to have a great handle on the situation. *Its probably a couple of more yrs before we are actually in.
AS ABRAHAM LINCOLN SO APTLY STATED MANY YEARS AGO.
"WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE AND CHARITY FOR ALL"
AMAZING THINGS HAPPEN AFTER A CIVIL WAR IS OVER.

He also said "If you are racist I will attack you with the North."
Paulie
Please show me where that is in print.
Regards

Sticks
06-05-2006, 06:53 PM
Thank you BisonBacker. *I remain interested but dont really care *what they do because the "rivalry" has been anything but good for both communities and both universities. *It has been divisive and destructive and sometimes completely unethical as the on-line pharmacy scandal shows. * Their desperation or eagerness to "join us at the big boys table" is clear evidence *who needs who.
I'm seeing that there's somewhat of an agreence on here that NDSU/UND rivalry is not a good thing. *So I need to ask you guys why this is. *Am I missing something? *I used to live for the SU/UND football games at Memorial and at the Alerus...same with basketball, and volleyball (okay that was mainly for the girls)--but my point is, we'd go only cause they were playing NDSU and the whole rivalry thing.

Somebody fill me in--cause this just sounds like the twin brother that doesn't want to share his toys.

buffalobill
06-05-2006, 06:54 PM
If we have a new future, like "The South" had after the civil war, what is it? *Does anybody know? *Bill is this just a hope you have that all will be well? *If it is my advice is to look at history or you are doomed to repeat it. *

I dont think NDSU wants to repeat the history we have with UND. *Its going to take some objective and overt behavior on their part, including a change in leadership, before Im in favor of a cooperative partnership. *I hold out as a recent example the on-line pharmacy.

The civil war ended with a peace treaty and wholesale change of leadership in "The South". *

Why not? *The NDSU/UND history goes back almost to when Moses wore short pants. *It has been a phenomenal, competitive, and anything but one-sided rivalry. *If we could wind up playing each other again on a higher level, what's the harm in that? *Is there a REAL down side to something like this happening besides the fact that you don't want us eating at the big boy table with you? *

I for one think it would be great for both communities and schools to get this rivalry flaring again.
Two small fish in a big ocean or one SHARK patrolling the beach!!! Take your pick!!!

RedRiver
06-05-2006, 07:05 PM
One shark no doubt!! Isn't that the way it is now??

Sticks
06-05-2006, 07:13 PM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *

roadwarrior
06-05-2006, 07:17 PM
I'm sure shortly after the announcement (if one comes), und will be back on the schedule, first in football since no doubt the Great West would want an additional member. The other sports would happen later.

Bisonguy
06-05-2006, 08:38 PM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Do you realize what you're saying? ::)

There's plenty of 'consolodation of athletic programs' being tossed around by a certain member all over the board now. Be careful what you respond to, unless you really want to see the University of North Dakota State Fighting Bison with campuses in Fargo and Grand Forks. :o

buffalobilljr
06-06-2006, 02:59 AM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

TheBisonator
06-06-2006, 03:03 AM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

In the words of Dave Chappelle in Half-Baked - "Man... You have smoked yourself retarded."

NanoBison
06-06-2006, 03:32 AM
BB Jr. Wow, simply, wow. ::)

BisonBacker
06-06-2006, 04:01 AM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

Are you any better at selling insurance then you are at posting these wild crazy ranting posts online? There coming to take me away aha there coming to take away... watch out Buffalobilljr the men in the white coats are looking for you. If not they certainly should be given the stuff you post on here. There is no way that will ever happen, you can mark it down on your calendar and give up that crazy notion.

kchats
06-06-2006, 04:08 AM
If we have a new future, like "The South" had after the civil war, what is it? *Does anybody know? *Bill is this just a hope you have that all will be well? *If it is my advice is to look at history or you are doomed to repeat it. *

I dont think NDSU wants to repeat the history we have with UND. *Its going to take some objective and overt behavior on their part, including a change in leadership, before Im in favor of a cooperative partnership. *I hold out as a recent example the on-line pharmacy.

The civil war ended with a peace treaty and wholesale change of leadership in "The South". *

Why not? *The NDSU/UND history goes back almost to when Moses wore short pants. *It has been a phenomenal, competitive, and anything but one-sided rivalry. *If we could wind up playing each other again on a higher level, what's the harm in that? *Is there a REAL down side to something like this happening besides the fact that you don't want us eating at the big boy table with you? *

I for one think it would be great for both communities and schools to get this rivalry flaring again.

I think what he means is athletic department consolidation. UND keeps hockey, NDSU keeps football, basketball etc. and they are no longer rivals but one combined team known as the Bison.

BisonCountry
06-06-2006, 04:22 AM
He also said "If you are racist I will attack you with the North."

One of my favorite "Office" lines....nice work!

NanoBison
06-06-2006, 06:50 AM
Here's another singularity example : "My foot in your ass". [Red Foreman, 70's Show]

Sticks
06-06-2006, 02:15 PM
Here's another singularity example : *"My foot in your ass". [Red Foreman, 70's Show]
You're just trying to build your # of posts back up with this one! :D

WYOBISONMAN
06-06-2006, 02:42 PM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

Huh?!?!

IowaBisonToo
06-06-2006, 02:50 PM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

In the words of Dave Chappelle in Half-Baked - "Man... You have smoked yourself retarded."

Bisonator - that is classic! ;D I can't sit anymore - I laughed my ass off.

NanoBison
06-06-2006, 03:05 PM
Here's another singularity example : "My foot in your ass". [Red Foreman, 70's Show]
You're just trying to build your # of posts back up with this one! :D


Pretty Much. ( But I did think it was appropriate on the Singularity subject...) ;D

buffalobilljr
06-06-2006, 03:17 PM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

In the words of Dave Chappelle in Half-Baked - "Man... You have smoked yourself retarded."

Roadwarrior, paulie, and IOWA say I have insulted them. Only a coward from cyberspace would say something as idiotic as that knowing full well they can hide and not be forced to reveal themselves. I am not offended by cowards but if that is not an insult I don't what is. :( :( :( :( :( :(l * *

Paulie
06-06-2006, 10:23 PM
Yes, I'm scared of you. I'm sure you have retard strength. :o

buffalobill
06-07-2006, 01:36 AM
Yes, I'm scared of you. *I'm sure you have retard strength. * :o
Shame on you. But not to worry you couldn't figure out 370H SSV 0773H unless you were given remedial assistance. Vaya Con Dios My Amigo!!

Scooter
06-07-2006, 02:51 AM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

Hell, why think so small? *Why don't we have a merger of South Dakota and North Dakota. *Change the state constitutions to legally merge the two states into a megga state with more clout. *Then when this is done, we can have four campuses and be the Fighting-Coyote-Jack-Bison. *Our mascot can be a huge canine toothed white bison with flippin' big jack ears and big coyote paws and a fluffy jackrabbit tail.... *

buffalobilljr
06-07-2006, 11:56 AM
We were one territory at one time that isn't much of a stretch when it comes down to it. The other stuff is just plain silly and I'm quite sure you know that. I hope!

buffalobilljr
06-07-2006, 11:59 AM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

Are you any better at selling insurance then you are at posting these wild crazy ranting posts online? *There coming to take me away aha there coming to take away... watch out Buffalobilljr the men in the white coats are looking for you. *If not they certainly should be given the stuff you post on here. *There is no way that will ever happen, you can mark it down on your calendar and give up that crazy notion.
Please buy your insurance elsewhere. Who was really crazy in the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

buffalobilljr
06-07-2006, 12:03 PM
UND has no choice but to be D-1. * They (UND) are afriad that NDSU will be the "University of Choice" in North Dakota. * *:) :) NDSU *has a great University President, Athletic Director, Football Coach, Basketball coach etc etc etc. *UND is running scare!!!!! Just read the posts on SUESports.com. *All I can say GO Bision Bison, GO. *I waiting for the first Bison - UND game Football game in D-1. Be there or Be sqaure :) :) :) *
How you doing Bear!

buffalobilljr
06-07-2006, 12:07 PM
If we have a new future, like "The South" had after the civil war, what is it? *Does anybody know? *Bill is this just a hope you have that all will be well? *If it is my advice is to look at history or you are doomed to repeat it. *

I dont think NDSU wants to repeat the history we have with UND. *Its going to take some objective and overt behavior on their part, including a change in leadership, before Im in favor of a cooperative partnership. *I hold out as a recent example the on-line pharmacy.

The civil war ended with a peace treaty and wholesale change of leadership in "The South". *

Why not? *The NDSU/UND history goes back almost to when Moses wore short pants. *It has been a phenomenal, competitive, and anything but one-sided rivalry. *If we could wind up playing each other again on a higher level, what's the harm in that? *Is there a REAL down side to something like this happening besides the fact that you don't want us eating at the big boy table with you? *

I for one think it would be great for both communities and schools to get this rivalry flaring again.
You are wrong when Moses had short pants the Sioux(Native Americans in general) and the Bison had a symbiotic
relationship throughout much of north America!!!!!

buffalobilljr
06-07-2006, 12:10 PM
One shark no doubt!! *Isn't that the way it is now??

Yeah, you bet!! *You guys are sure ruling the roost right now!! *
THERE IS ROOM ON THE ROOST FOR TWO CAMPUSES, ONE UNIVERSITY, POTENTIAL UNLIMITED, APPROACH THE BIG TEN ON A 12TH SCHOOL WITH TWO DIVISIONS. THE EAST WITH MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN STATE, PENN STATE, INDIANA, PURDUE, AND OHIO STATE. THE WEST WITH IOWA, ILLINOIS, NORTHWESTERN, WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA AND THE STATE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA FIGHTING BISON WITH THEIR NEW MASCOT A WHITE BISON CALLED "SACRED ONE" IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!

In the words of Dave Chappelle in Half-Baked - "Man... You have smoked yourself retarded."

Is that your best? And to top it off you used it from someone else. Real original thinking.!!!!!

Sticks
06-07-2006, 02:31 PM
Are you trying to set a record for consecutive posts? *

Moses wearing short pants is a figure of speech...I borrowed it from Corrado (Junior) Soprano.

Paulie
06-07-2006, 02:40 PM
Yes, I'm scared of you. *I'm sure you have retard strength. * :o
Shame on you. But not to worry you couldn't figure out 370H SSV 0773H unless you were given remedial assistance. Vaya Con Dios My Amigo!! *

If I'm so stupid how did I get that NDSU degree?

Sticks
06-07-2006, 06:58 PM
If I'm so stupid how did I get that NDSU degree? *


Careful now, you're leaving the door WIDE open on this one.

Scooter
06-07-2006, 07:36 PM
If I'm so stupid how did I get that NDSU degree? *


Careful now, you're leaving the door WIDE open on this one.


My god, Katohtr! It must have Killed you not to just knock that out of the park.

What restraint you have.

broke_back_mnt
06-07-2006, 08:01 PM
I think its official. This board has been elevated to actual subject matter. Sue is good at sports.com has been relegated to the smack board! ;)

Sticks
06-07-2006, 08:16 PM
If I'm so stupid how did I get that NDSU degree? *
Careful now, you're leaving the door WIDE open on this one.

My god, Katohtr! *It must have Killed you not to just knock that out of the park.
What restraint you have.


My twelve step program is working wonders! * :D

gcichy
06-07-2006, 08:43 PM
UND has no choice but to be D-1. They (UND) are afriad that NDSU will be the "University of Choice" in North Dakota. :) :) NDSU has a great University President, Athletic Director, Football Coach, Basketball coach etc etc etc. UND is running scare!!!!! Just read the posts on SUESports.com. All I can say GO Bision Bison, GO. I waiting for the first Bison - UND game Football game in D-1. Be there or Be sqaure :) :) :)
How you doing Bear!

I'm doing great!!!!!!!!!!!!! and in Wisconsin :) :) :) :) :) :)

buffalobilljr
06-08-2006, 06:19 PM
Are you trying to set a record for consecutive posts? *

Moses wearing short pants is a figure of speech...I borrowed it from Corrado (Junior) Soprano.
In ancient Egypt I believe they wore something resembling a Scottish kilt, and sorry I don't watch the sopranos. Records aren't important only results. It is amazing what can be accomplished when you don't care who get's the credit! :) :)

buffalobilljr
06-08-2006, 06:21 PM
UND has no choice but to be D-1. * They (UND) are afriad that NDSU will be the "University of Choice" in North Dakota. * *:) :) NDSU *has a great University President, Athletic Director, Football Coach, Basketball coach etc etc etc. *UND is running scare!!!!! Just read the posts on SUESports.com. *All I can say GO Bision Bison, GO. *I waiting for the first Bison - UND game Football game in D-1. Be there or Be sqaure :) :) :) *
How you doing Bear!

I'm doing great!!!!!!!!!!!!! *and in Wisconsin :) :) :) :) :) :)
Bison BB victory must have been sweet or have you been converted?

kitcody
06-18-2006, 12:16 AM
Someone has to inform Tom Buning that your Civil War is over from everything I read!!!!!!