UND riding NDSU coattails???

[KTF]

I found this article in todays Forum to be rather interesting.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=131102&section=Sports


“They (midcon presidents) are at ground zero as far as what they know about us,” said Buning, who admits there is a fear NDSU will make a move(acceptance into a confrence) without UND.
This by far has to be my favorite quote from the article. It appears that UND is banking that NDSU will say "no" to conference membership without the promise that UND will be offered as well. Just shows the leadership quality at UND!

[WYOBISONMAN]

We have paid our dues, and when the invite comes we have no choice but to take it.

[roadwarrior]

I cant even comprehend what he was thinking about in the first paragraph.


"North Dakota State doesn’t plan to wait for rival University of North Dakota in its search for an NCAA Division I conference."

[swaghook]

I would be very pissed off if NDSU turned down an invite for any reason if it came from the Mid-Con. This includes the remote possibility of SDSU being left behind. It's every "man" for themselves in the transition process at this point.

[roadwarrior]

We dont have to worry about that!


“If the Mid-Con comes and says we’re in, we’re going,” said NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor.

[Mr._Bill]

NDSU has much greater affinity right now toward SD State right now than ND. Even with that, this conference thing is every man for themselves.

We will see if NDSU gets into the mid-con, let's hope so. If NDSU gets into the mid-con as I suspect, und will most likely be without a whole sport conference for 2-3 years until a Big Sky shakeup or Mid-Con 2. They will, however, get into the Great West for football as we are desperate for a 6th member.

[broke_back_mnt]

I think Buning is starting to understand his situation. *He has very little grace and is looking a little ridiculous advising NDSU on their situation. *He isnt even at a DI institution! *

[Flanders]

I think Buning is starting to understand his situation. He has very little grace and is looking a little rediculous advising NDSU on their situation. He isnt even at a DI institution!

Are you kidding me? Maybe you should read the article over again. Not only is Buning not advising NDSU on their situation, he also was very complimentary of the Bison.

[Flanders]

I think Buning is starting to understand his situation. He has very little grace and is looking a little rediculous advising NDSU on their situation. He isnt even at a DI institution!

"Very little grace"? Do you know the man? He actually has quite a lot of grace. He does not look ridiculous, either. You're welcome to take your pot-shots at Kupchella, but your ignorance is showing when you make statements like that about Buning.

[Mr._Bill]

I agree with Flanders, nothing said by Bunning was anti-ndsu. *He simply said it would be good for und if ndsu ended up waiting and both schools could join a conference together. * I think that Bunning see the reality of that happening being very slim. *Bunning understands that his role is to play nice and build relationships with schools from potential conferences, including ndsu & sdsu. *

Bunning and und are in a position of having very few friends over the next several years. *Und's exit from the NCC will be viewed as even less graceful than ndsu's by the remaining NCC members putting them in bigger bind), and we know how the xdsu's feel about und. *Good thing there are some NAIA schools in the area. * The only thing helping und is the Great West which will probably accept them in 2008 or so. *Without that they would really be in trouble. Then there's the whole logo/nickname thing . . . we will really see what und is made of in the next 6 years.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think Buning is starting to understand his situation. *He has very little grace and is looking a little rediculous advising NDSU on their situation. *He isnt even at a DI institution! *

I don't agree with that at all. Buning is one of the few recent bright spots in the UND administration. Both he and Lennon have been fairly complimentary of NDSU.

[silkamilkamonico]

Buning has done alot of good things at UND and did say good things about NDSU in the article, however, you do have to wonder what he was thinking when he made this comment, "But there may be something said for being patient for something better. I would think they would have considered that option, too."

So, grab a conference now if we have the oppurtunity too and continue forth with our move, or wait 5+ years and then take it from there? With that kind of patience, what could possibly be "something better", considering the circumstances.

[broke_back_mnt]

Buning didn't say anything anti NDSU, but his attempts at advice are out of place. *

Grace doesn't come from within. *Its bestowed from outside. *His situation is as desperate as it seems and he seems to be feeling a bit alone.

Kuppy came from out of state with no past history to explain his apparent hostility toward NDSU. *Buning is subject to the same cultural influences. *Dont be fooled by a Trojan horse.

[Bison_Pride]

“They earned a lot of gutsy points, and they are ready to reap that reward for getting into a conference,”

That doesn't sound like someone who is stepping out of bounds with advice.

I don't buy into the silly hate-mongering, Bunning has been a pretty good AD for UND.

[kchats]

It is the comment about having patience for something better. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if UND hasn't talked with Gene Taylor about waiting for them and then getting into the Big Sky together. That doesn't fly with NDSU or any NDSU fan or alumnus because we have already spent 3 + years as an independent and understand how important a conference is. I think the Mid Con is interested in improving the strength and image of the conference and I would be extremely happy if NDSU was offered membership. To sit for another 3 years as an independent for a school that has done nothing to assist you in the transition to division I would be completely idiotic and foolish. They will understand why NDSU says when we get an offer we are taking it after going a couple of years as an independent.

Maybe UND should wait to accept an invitation to a division I conference until the University of Mary finally makes the move to division I and they can go in together, you know patience might just pay off for them in the end. ;)

[BisonBacker]

*

Maybe UND should wait to accept an invitation to a division I conference until the University of Mary finally makes the move to division I and they can go in together, you know patience might just pay off for them in the end. ;)

That's classic ;D ;D

[The_Sicatoka]

The Mid-Continent Conference:

Centenary
Chicago State
Indiana U/Purdue U Indianapolis
U Missouri Kansas City
Oakland
Oral Roberts
Southern Utah
Valparaiso
Western Illinois

I find one, maybe two, of that list that I'd call a peer of either of the 'SUs or UND. (That is a compliment to the 'SUs and UND.)

Wasn't NDSU's move about returning to competition against "like" universities, e.g. Montana and Montana State? As I said above, I find one, maybe two, of that list comparable.

But if that's the option, at this point, I guess you take it.

[Bisonguy]

The Mid-Continent Conference:

Centenary
Chicago State
Indiana U/Purdue U Indianapolis
U Missouri Kansas City
Oakland
Oral Roberts
Southern Utah
Valparaiso
Western Illinois

I find one, maybe two, of that list that I'd call a peer of either of the 'SUs or UND. (That is a compliment to the 'SUs and UND.)

Wasn't NDSU's move about returning to competition against "like" universities, e.g. Montana and Montana State? As I said above, I find one, maybe two, of that list comparable.

But if that's the option, at this point, I guess you take it.

For the sake of conversation, how many of the Big Sky schools could be called peers of NDSU, SDSU, of UND?

[The_Sicatoka]

For the sake of conversation, how many of the Big Sky schools could be called peers of NDSU, SDSU, of UND?

The Big Sky trumps the best of Mid-Con easily with Montana and Montana State.
Sac St and Northern Arizona are matches to Western Illinois.
And Northern Colorado is a former NCC member.

The Mid-Con is a fine conference; I just believe the 'SUs (and UND) are above it.

[broke_back_mnt]

Thats funny. *

Chicken little says that the sky is falling, even though it aint you know he still come calling.

Fabricating an internal crisis of govenance inside the NCAA is not going to get Und its way. There is no crisis for anyone except Und and REA.

Unconditional and enthusiastic tribal support would get you off the list.

[roadwarrior]

It really doesnt matter what Buning says to any reporter or if he calls Taylor and talks to him. What matters is that NDSU needs a conference ASAP, and there is no doubt that is the road that we will take.

Personally, I think Buning was a positive change for UND. It gets a little embarassing for some Bison fans to continue to read post after post after post bashing anything and everything that comes out of grand forks.

[broke_back_mnt]

Not as frustrating as the Und/REA assault on the NCAAs right to self governance.

[The_Sicatoka]

Not as frustrating as the Und/REA assault on the NCAAs right to self governance.

The NCAA's own rules of self-governance say that the Executive Committee does not have the power to create or enact such things as this. Something like this would have to go to the floor for a full membership vote at a convention.

All UND is doing is asking the NCAA to follow its own defined process. When the NCAA didn't UND was left with no recourse but the courts.

[MplsBison]

Here's the thing about the Big Sky.

As it is right now, I'd rather be in the BSC than the Mid Con because of UM and MSU.



What if Montana and MSU weren't in the Big Sky?


At that point, is being in a conference with UNC, Idaho St., Weber St., NAU, E Washinton, Portland St., and Sac St. really that much better than being in a conference with SDSU, UND, USD, Poly, Davis, and SUU?

[The_Sicatoka]

Academically, yes, Poly and Davis bring what Montana and Montana State bring (very solid credentials).

However, until your scenario plays out, all you can do is look at what's there today. We'd go nuts trying to run all of the "what if" scenarios.

[MplsBison]

I can run the numbers in my head just fine.

We can stick with the Great West, which is going to be Poly and Davis for now (until they go DI-A), SUU for now (as long as they keep football) and the other dakota flagships (SDSU, UND, and USD).

We can try to get into the Big Sky of which only playing Montana and Montana State excites me. E Wash and Portland St. usually have great teams. NAU, ISU, and Weber have had good seasons now and then. Sac State I could give a crap about. They're probably going I-A sooner rather than later, anyway.

If Montana and MSU leave for DI-A, I'd rather stay in the Great West.

If they stay, I'd rather be in the Big Sky.

[kchats]

It really doesnt matter what Buning says to any reporter or if he calls Taylor and talks to him. *What matters is that NDSU needs a conference ASAP, and there is no doubt that is the road that we will take.

Personally, I think Buning was a positive change for UND. *It gets a little embarassing for some Bison fans to continue to read post after post after post bashing anything and everything that comes out of grand forks.

It would be alot easier if UND would do this move alone like they wanted to 3 years ago when they told NDSU good riddence and good bye. Now everytime someone from UND talks it is about partnering with NDSU in the move to division I and becoming a team in this division I adventure. If UND would just leave NDSU out of their division I move like they did three years ago we wouldn't have to rip on them so much. UND made their bed by staying in division II when we asked them to move with us and now they keep talking about the move like they have been working with NDSU and helping NDSU all along. It isn't right.

[broke_back_mnt]

I hear that Kchats. Many of them now appear bearing gifts of wisdom and advice.

:o

[broke_back_mnt]

Not as frustrating as the Und/REA assault on the NCAAs right to self governance.

The NCAA's own rules of self-governance say that the Executive Committee does not have the power to create or enact such things as this. Something like this would have to go to the floor for a full membership vote at a convention.

All UND is doing is asking the NCAA to follow its own defined process. When the NCAA didn't UND was left with no recourse but the courts.

The World according to Garp!

[Bison_Dan]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. Where would und go? The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. I would rather be in our position than their's. ;D ;D

[RedRiver]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. *Where would und go? *The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. *I would rather be in our position than their's. * ;D ;D

That senerio is a very real possibility and the Mid-Con meeting has folks at und real nervous. If the Mid-Con adds multiple members and there is no turnover in the future and the Big Sky sits on its hands, where will und go??

[MplsBison]

They'll be in the Great West for sure. So their top sports as far as money go (men's hockey, football) will have conferences.


It's possible they could get into the Mid Con when other members leave for large conferences (Oakland to Horizon, for example).

[Hammersmith]

They'll be in the Great West for sure.
I know most everyone assumes that UND will be invited into the GWFC no later than 2009-10 (I believe it myself), but other than making scheduling easier, is there really any benefit to the other GWFC schools? The autobid question is normally thrown around, but I just don't see it working out. If I'm reading the NCAA manual correctly, the earliest the GWFC could be autobid eligible without poaching another core institution is 2021. That would be when UND is considered a core institution. Even if the GWFC finds another member, it still wouldn't be autobid eligible until 2016 when NDSU & SDSU "level up". And none of that addresses the issue of which conference will end up losing its autobid so the GWFC can get one(East-Coast Bias?). There are more than eight conferences that are autobid eligible now, much less in 2016.

Now its possible the playoff field might be expanded to 24 in the meantime, which could create up to 4 new autobids, but I just don't see the autobid argument holding much weight when it will be fifteen years before it happens.

[MplsBison]

Guaranteed conference games is the name of the game.

Poly and Davis want them. And they don't care if they have to fly out to the Dakotas twice a year.

They have to fly to every away game anyway.

[broke_back_mnt]

I dont even know how you apply for admission to the GWFC. Certainly they will need at least 3 schools supporting them, and maybe 5. They will be in the day the conference approves them and no sooner.

There will have to be information transfers, several meetings, the Presidents will then have to vote to schedule a visit and then make the final decision. Its not happening any time soon and if it doesnt look like it might happen they wont move.

It might not be as easy as they think. Will the naming issue have to be settled first? Will they be allowed to use a nickname that prevents them from hosting NCAA championship events and using it in those events? Personally I dont think a conference wants that dropped in their laps by a new member.

Will the NCAA even approve their request to move as long as this is an issue?

All of our other scheduling alliances are theirs!

[kchats]

Email Gene Chapman, Joe Chapman and Tom Douple and let them know that membership criteria needs to be in place for the Great West Football Conference. New schools that are transitioning should not be allowed to compete for conference championships, or have their statistics count in the conference which eliminates them from weekly honors as well.

For those of you that say NDSU didn't have to wait, well when NDSU joined the Great West Football Conference they were one of 7 schools that helped create the conference and out of the 7 schools only Cal Poly and SUU were postseason eligible. When UND tries to join the 5 schools will be eligible and that is why UND shouldn't be treated the same as NDSU, SDSU and UNC were.

[roadwarrior]

The Great West already has a complete set of bylaws. These were all put in place before the first game happened. Its ridiculous to think that fans should be giving that kind of advice to commissioners and presidents. They will do what is right for the conference, not take into account some of our personal views about a certain school.

[Flanders]

The Great West already has a complete set of bylaws. These were all put in place before the first game happened. Its ridiculous to think that fans should be giving that kind of advice to commissioners and presidents. They will do what is right for the conference, not take into account some of our personal views about a certain school.

Thank you. I laughed out loud at "membership criteria needs to be in place for the Great West Football Conference". I think Gene and Joe have already taken care of that. On a day that Kchats and jbb should be happy with the situation the Bison are in, it's sad to see them take the time to worry about the Fighting Sioux.

[virgfoss]

The Great West already has a complete set of bylaws. *These were all put in place before the first game happened. *Its ridiculous to think that fans should be giving that kind of advice to commissioners and presidents. *They will do what is right for the conference, not take into account some of our personal views about a certain school.

Thank you. *I laughed out loud at "membership criteria needs to be in place for the Great West Football Conference". *I think Gene and Joe have already taken care of that. *On a day that Kchats and jbb should be happy with the situation the Bison are in, it's sad to see them take the time to worry about the Fighting Sioux.



Yes, Flanders, and here you are on the "Bison Board" all worried about it. It's sad to see that you need to check in on the "Bison Board" every hour on the hour. Laughter, right back atchya.

[Flanders]

Hi Virg! How's retirement? The reason I check in on the Bison Board is because I'm very interested in the D-1 transition process and college athletics in general. Hope that's ok with you!

[Bison_Dan]

Hi Virg! *How's retirement? *The reason I check in on the Bison Board is because I'm very interested in the D-1 transition process and college athletics in general. *Hope that's ok with you!

Now it's time to watch und squirm for the next few years. ;D ;D After reading and listening to all the posts and BS from up north and then they turn around and follow NDSU into DI it's very funny. And the real funny part is they're following with less support, money, and conference chances than NDSU did.

It just proves the point that NDSU doesn't need und, but und badly needs NDSU.

[buffalobill]

With malice towards none and charity for all. That's how Honest Abe put it after the Civil War. Some things never change nor should they. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[broke_back_mnt]

Im joining in a converstaion here Flanders. *Your not. *Your using the forum to slam others by name. *Check the board. *Im celebrating with the rest. *

Im not sure what the entrance procedure is, hence the post, but your (Unds) nickname will probably be a big negative. *No conference should admit a school that might keep a home playoff game away from them. *I think the other concern is legit too.

[BisonMav]

My prognosticator says NDSU & SDSU will be Mid-Con Gateway eventually, and UND will be Big Sky. Better recognition for the State of North Dakota than any cockamany merger plan.

[Flanders]

Im joining in a converstaion here Flanders. Your not. Your using the forum to slam others by name. Check the board. Im celebrating with the rest.

Im not sure what the entrance procedure is, hence the post, but your (Unds) nickname will probably be a big negative. No conference should admit a school that might keep a home playoff game away from them. I think the other concern is legit too.



If you took what I wrote as a "slam", then I apologize. Truly. That was not my intention. I disagree with you about the nickname issue and it's affect on possible conference affiliation. I congratulate and applaud NDSU's success in finding a conference home.

[IowaBisonToo]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. *Where would und go? *The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. *I would rather be in our position than their's. * ;D ;D

That senerio is a very real possibility and the Mid-Con meeting has folks at und real nervous. *If the Mid-Con adds multiple members and there is no turnover in the future and the Big Sky sits on its hands, where will und go?? *
I guess they could stay DII with U Mary. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

[buffalobill]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. *Where would und go? *The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. *I would rather be in our position than their's. * ;D ;D

That senerio is a very real possibility and the Mid-Con meeting has folks at und real nervous. *If the Mid-Con adds multiple members and there is no turnover in the future and the Big Sky sits on its hands, where will und go?? *
I guess they could stay DII with U Mary. *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
I have said Sioux Suck(which I have now stopped) more times than you are minutes old, and I believe that was a cheap shot, but it is a free country(unless King George has his way).

[broke_back_mnt]

Thank you Flanders. Im sorry I jumped to a conclusion about your post. * :)

[IowaBisonToo]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. *Where would und go? *The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. *I would rather be in our position than their's. * ;D ;D

That senerio is a very real possibility and the Mid-Con meeting has folks at und real nervous. *If the Mid-Con adds multiple members and there is no turnover in the future and the Big Sky sits on its hands, where will und go?? *
I guess they could stay DII with U Mary. *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
I have said Sioux Suck(which I have now stopped) more times than you are minutes old, and I believe that was a cheap shot, but it is a free country(unless King George has his way).
You've said "Sioux Suck" over 19,000,000 times???? :o *Holy crap! *How do you keep track?? *So what if it's a cheap shot? *How do you know? *I guess the grins don't mean anything to you - unless you're now a dentist and it means polish my teeth please.

[buffalobill]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. *Where would und go? *The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. *I would rather be in our position than their's. * ;D ;D

That senerio is a very real possibility and the Mid-Con meeting has folks at und real nervous. *If the Mid-Con adds multiple members and there is no turnover in the future and the Big Sky sits on its hands, where will und go?? *
I guess they could stay DII with U Mary. *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
I have said Sioux Suck(which I have now stopped) more times than you are minutes old, and I believe that was a cheap shot, but it is a free country(unless King George has his way).
You've said "Sioux Suck" over 19,000,000 times???? :o *Holy crap! *How do you keep track?? *So what if it's a cheap shot? *How do you know? *I guess the grins don't mean anything to you - unless you're now a dentist and it means polish my teeth please.
Decent comeback IOWA! It appears they haven't brainwashed you yet.

[IowaBisonToo]

Buning could look like a fool if NDSU & SDSU go the Mid Con and they decide that's enough members and the BSC doesn't look east. *Where would und go? *The BSC will not come east to pick up 1 member. *I would rather be in our position than their's. * ;D ;D

That senerio is a very real possibility and the Mid-Con meeting has folks at und real nervous. *If the Mid-Con adds multiple members and there is no turnover in the future and the Big Sky sits on its hands, where will und go?? *
I guess they could stay DII with U Mary. *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
I have said Sioux Suck(which I have now stopped) more times than you are minutes old, and I believe that was a cheap shot, but it is a free country(unless King George has his way).
You've said "Sioux Suck" over 19,000,000 times???? :o *Holy crap! *How do you keep track?? *So what if it's a cheap shot? *How do you know? *I guess the grins don't mean anything to you - unless you're now a dentist and it means polish my teeth please.
Decent comeback IOWA! It appears they haven't brainwashed you yet. *
If when you say "they" - meaning the people of Iowa - NEVER!!!!!! They could only be so lucky ;)