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kchats
07-02-2006, 05:39 PM
Today there were a couple of new articles on UND making the move to division I. The first from Kevin Fee where he says UND couldn't stay division II because of the diluted state the classification is in. He also takes the time to rip on the Mid Con as a division I conference even though he knows nothing about the conference or division I. Statements like his have a way of coming up from UND fans, administration and media. NDSU fans have gotten ahead of themselves as well when they state the Mid Con is a bad conference. NDSU needs to actually be a member of the conference before fans, coaches or administrators can judge the quality of the universities that are members of the conference. Mr. fee actually states that a group of NCC schools grouped together in division I would be a better conference than the Mid Con. He is way off base with that statement, especially since the Mid Con schools have been division I for many years and most of the current NCC schools have not made the decision to move and aren't sure if they can fund the move. Division I is a big step up from division II and that in itself should tell fans for current and transitioning schools that division I schools should be a step up from their level. I don't want to eat humble pie if NDSU gets invited to join the Mid Con and doesn't immediately become competitive and I will reserve my judgement on the quality of the athletic programs until NDSU is a member for a full season.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/sports/14950135.htm

The Mid-Continent Conference, which is taking a look at UND rival NDSU, is disintegrating.

The Mid-Con lost two members in recent months: Chicago State and its flagship school, Valparaiso of Indiana.

Not only does the league have little status, it also is a geographical nightmare. Schools stretch from Southern Utah to Centenary (Shreveport, La.) to Oakland, Mich. (a Detroit suburb).

The other schools are Oral Roberts, Western Illinois, Missouri-Kansas City and Indiana-Purdue-Indianapolis.

Now, the Mid-Con might add IUPU-Fort Wayne, NDSU and South Dakota State, where it will make campus visits later this summer.

If all the Sioux are hoping for is any conference when the school plays its first season of Division I in 2008-09, they shouldn't have any worries.

The Mid-Con likely will have a few spots.

Many of the current Mid-Con teams are looking elsewhere. At best, the conference would be a place for NDSU and UND to use their Division I training wheels.

When they want to hop on the Harley, they will join the Big Sky, which I think could be a savior for both, or form a conference with those from the North Central Conference who have left, such as NDSU and SDSU, or might leave in the next couple of years.

The latter scenario would be ideal, with lower travel costs and known rivalries. They also could play football in the same conference as their other athletic teams. The Mid-Con doesn't even have football (NDSU and SDSU play in the Great West Football Conference).

The key would be to find enough teams to form a conference of former NCC schools and others. Another problem with this scenario is a waiting period for the new conference to receive automatic berths into NCAA championships.

Or we just shoot for the Big Sky. Let's bring back the games against the Montana schools



NDSU and SDSU athletes were also interviewed and stated that they are enjoying competing in division I in this article.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/sports/14950109.htm

broke_back_mnt
07-02-2006, 05:55 PM
AFter reading that first article you have to wonder why they think they would be welcome anyplace. *The Big Sky would be perfect for them, as long as we arent there. *

Its worthwhile to read. *It reminds me why any association with them is undesirable. *At least if they got into the BSC we would only have to play them in the playoffs. *I hope they get in. *But first they have to move up and thats no given if they dont clear up their issues with the NCAA.

bincitysioux
07-02-2006, 08:24 PM
AFter reading that first article you have to wonder why they think they would be welcome anyplace. *The Big Sky would be perfect for them, as long as we arent there. *

Its worthwhile to read. *It reminds me why any association with them is undesirable. *At least if they got into the BSC we would only have to play them in the playoffs. *I hope they get in. *But first they have to move up and thats no given if they dont clear up their issues with the NCAA.

FYI: That wasn't a press release from the University. It was an opinion, by a columnist. And it was a stupid column that was a waste of space in today's paper, IMO. Not unlike 90% of the columns that McFeely puts out in the Forum.

BisonMav
07-02-2006, 08:36 PM
FYI: That wasn't a press release from the University. *It was an opinion, by a columnist. *And it was a stupid column that was a waste of space in today's paper, IMO. *Not unlike 90% of the columns that McFeely puts out in the Forum. *

Nice job Kevin McFee ::) :-[ :-/

broke_back_mnt
07-02-2006, 09:52 PM
Im sorry bincity, I didnt want to imply it was Unds official position, only its official attitude. Besides my point was about your chances of having your D1 application approved.

TheBisonator
07-02-2006, 09:53 PM
FYI: That wasn't a press release from the University. *It was an opinion, by a columnist. *And it was a stupid column that was a waste of space in today's paper, IMO. *Not unlike 90% of the columns that McFeely puts out in the Forum. *

Nice job Kevin McFee *::) :-[ :-/

Kevin McFeeley???

RodentiaX
07-03-2006, 12:52 PM
The Mid-Con is not disintegrating. Adding NDSU and SDSU will stableize it for several years. Yes, teams to eventually tend to move out of the Mid-Con. But as long as there are teams moving up to D-I, the Mid-Con will not be disintegrating. What it does is change. It reminds me of a problem in robotics. People have been working for years on making robots that can walk. They have tried to keep the robot stable while walking, but the problem is that humans aren't stable when we walk. We're only stable standing still, when we take a step, we are off-balance. Walking is controlled unstability. And that's what the Mid-Con is, controlled unstability. Teams come, teams go, but it's like walking, just staying upright until the next step. And you get where you are going.

89rabbit
07-03-2006, 02:07 PM
The folks up in Grand Forks crack me up. *Their hatred of NDSU knows no bounds. *For the past three years all they have done is take pot shots at the Bison (and occasionally the Jacks) about our move to D-I and how stupid it was. *When NDSU and SDSU tried to get the NCC to move up as a group, who led the charge about staying in D-II . *. *. you got it, UND. *Any one remember their President's letter to the NCAA about letting schools pick which programs would compete at what level (ala carte NCAA), or their old AD's letter on how D-II and I-AA football were really the same thing, from a compitition stand point?

Now D-I is the place to be and it is time to eat a little crow, although the author of this story isn't ready to pull up a chair to the dinner tabel just yet. *Still they must dog on NDSU, after all that is what folks up in Grand Forks do, and now that it looks like that the Bison are getting into the Mid-Con it is time to write about what a lousey conference the Mid-Con is.

Funny thing, what the writer is doing is setting himself up for a double helping of crow, because unless the membership of the Big Sky changes they have made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of expanding to the east for any Dakota school. *UND's best (and probably only) hope for a conference home will more then likely be the Mid-Con.

http://www.geocities.com/valbyrne2000/twocrows.jpg

UND supporters biggest fear is that they will spend an inordinate amount of time as an independent. *Before they decided to go to D-I, and after NDSU had shown signs of having success at the D-I level, their favorite dig was that NDSU was stupid for moving up to D-I without a conference invite in hand. *They claimed that because of their facilities (they are very proud of their hockey arena, and rightly so, but have never really grasped that to confences who don't play hockey it doesn't matter)they would have an invite before they made the move. *Now it looks like they are ready to move without a conference home so here comes crow #3.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/carrioncrowart180_tcm3-56439.jpg

Worse yet, UND may have waited too long and could be an idependent for an extended amount of time. *Earlier this year their were talks of "secret meetings" with the Big Sky and how they were going to take NDSU and SDSU and UND to form a 12 team league. *Oh the UND supporters were smug, they talked about how they let the State Universities do all the hard work and now they were going to waltz in and join us. *They were doing it the "right way" and wouldn't have to even be an independent, move from D-II right into the Big Sky. *When that proved to be just so much talk, they switched to talking about "partnering with NDSU", trouble is NDSU has had a partner all along and that is my school SDSU and it looks like we are heading to the Mid-Con.

How scary for the Sioux. *They are going to move to D-I, they will have to be an independent, NDSU is not there to be their partner, the Big Sky is not going to expand by 1 to the Dakotas, the Mid-Con might already be full (once it adds IPFW, NDSU, and SDSU), and they may have to join a reconstituted D-I NCC (without UNC, NDSU, and SDSU). *Talk about a D-I training wheel conference, a D-I NCC wouldn't be eligible to even petition the NCAA for a Basketball Auto Bid for 13 years. *Classic whistling past the grave yard. *

Don't get me wrong, I am good with UND moving up as it will add to the GWFC which needs members. *I also think that they will be asked to join the Mid-Con once they get closer to the end of the transition to D-I (remember they don't even begin the process until '07-'08). *It just cracks me up the lengths that some people will go to rather then just say, "We were wrong, please show us the way".


Go State! * :)

BisonMav
07-03-2006, 02:29 PM
But aren't UNO and USD going to be forced to make a decision now? :-?

kchats
07-03-2006, 02:44 PM
Well said 89Rabbit. Couldn't agree more and as a Bison fan I am happy we have had such a great partner in the transition in SDSU. There was an article a couple of days ago that talked about how NDSU, SDSU and IPFW worked together to achieve the site visits from the Mid Con. They all said in division I athletic directors need to work more closely with each other and almost partner to do so. UND's behavior during the past 3 or 4 years puts them behind the 8 ball in finding institutions that would partner with them. It wasn't a good move to rip on their closest division I universities and to do it very publicly.

Even if USD and UNO join UND in moving to division I it won't change anything for NDSU and SDSU. NDSU and SDSU should be in the Mid Con by then and it would be foolish to leave that conference to join schools that only moved to division I to follow everyone else. The other NCC schools aren't thinking of moving to division I because that is the direction they want their school to go in they are doing it because they "had no choice". As diluted as division II is if NDSU and SDSU were still in it none of the other schools would be considering division I. Not really the best way to approach such an important decision or move. If things get tough they will all have the excuse we didn't want to do this it's the other schools fault that we aren't any good anymore.

BisonBacker
07-03-2006, 03:02 PM
89 rabbit, you have hit the nail on the proverbail head. Grand Forks and und will never admit it but always have been and continue to be a Fargo Wannabe. Fargo and NDSU are growing, Grand Forks and und are stagnant.

TaTonka_31
07-03-2006, 04:08 PM
This stuff is so comical. Its like childish sibling rivalries. Here UND has one of the premier D1 Hockey program in the nation but yet their biggest fear is that the Ag school will rival them in national recognition. The Wisconsin win really shook the UND people to the core. It is only a sample of what could happen if the mens basketball team gets into the tournament and has some success.

Now with this talk of merging the two schools and eliminating the Bison teams, it is very important that the Bison teams build their statewide fan base in order to head off any attempt to try such a stupid thing.

UND, you have hockey and the people of ND respect that program. People that are in the UND corner must come to the realization that NDSU exists and has a following of its own regionally with the other major college sports.

insane_ponderer
07-03-2006, 06:00 PM
I think someone should make sure to forward this article to all the presidents of the mid-con schools and anyone of any importance involved with the conference just to make sure when und is begging for conference scraps that they remember not to let them in to their "watered down" "falling apart" conference.

BisonBacker
07-03-2006, 06:50 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

kchats
07-03-2006, 07:42 PM
I guarantee you the commissioner and conference presidents have been following the stories in the news papers. Why else would Tom Douple use the phrase "They had the guts to make the move and withstood arrows of criticism by doing so". That is paraphrased a little but pretty close. They know UND was highly critical of NDSU's move and division I for the past 3 or 4 years. UND will not only have to prove they belong in division I if they continue to make the move, but they will also have to overcome their criticism of division I and attacks on their former conference foes in the eyes of the conferences as well.

BisonMav
07-03-2006, 07:52 PM
I guarantee you the commissioner and conference presidents have been following the stories in the news papers. *Why else would Tom Douple use the phrase "They had the guts to make the move and withstood arrows of criticism by doing so". *That is paraphrased a little but pretty close. *They know UND was highly critical of NDSU's move and division I for the past 3 or 4 years. *UND will not only have to prove they belong in division I if they continue to make the move, but they will also have to overcome their criticism of division I and attacks on their former conference foes in the eyes of the conferences as well.

All while NDSU has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level.

Flanders
07-03-2006, 08:48 PM
I think someone should make sure to forward this article to all the presidents of the mid-con schools and anyone of any importance involved with the conference just to make sure when und is begging for conference scraps that they remember not to let them in to their "watered down" "falling apart" conference.

Since no one else is apparently going to point out the obvious to you and a couple of the others, then I'll do it: The story didn't come from UND. It is not a UND press release. It came from the GF Herald. A columnist. His PERSONAL opinion. You want to forward a columnist's opinion piece to all the president's of the mid-con schools? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? On Friday morning, UND Athletic Director Tom Buning was being interviewed on a local radio show. One of the sports guys tried to goad him into saying something negative about the mid-con. Buning not only didn't take the bait, he also said, quote, "Any conference is a good conference". He again congratulated the Bison on their success in finding a conference. If you have a problem with Kevin Fee, then state that. I have a hard time believing that you would want ALL of McFeeley's columns associated with NDSU. Please try to keep an open mind in the future.

Scooter
07-03-2006, 10:24 PM
I guarantee you the commissioner and conference presidents have been following the stories in the news papers. *Why else would Tom Douple use the phrase "They had the guts to make the move and withstood arrows of criticism by doing so". *That is paraphrased a little but pretty close. *They know UND was highly critical of NDSU's move and division I for the past 3 or 4 years. *UND will not only have to prove they belong in division I if they continue to make the move, but they will also have to overcome their criticism of division I and attacks on their former conference foes in the eyes of the conferences as well.

All while NDSU has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level.

Gil Dobie, this fact that you point out is glaring. *Just take a look at the figureheads of these two universities and compare. *Thank God for Chapman and Taylor! *The relationships that they are forming throughout the nation in IA are impressive. *

In comparision, Kupchella's letters , ill conceived ala carte' IA program proposal, and impending lawsuit do not make for positive relations with fellow IA institutions. *In fact it makes them look more a joke than anything else. This is unfortunate because I think that UND could make a fairly smooth transition to IA/IAA. *Bunning is head and shoulders better than Roger Thomas as an AD. *His problem is that he is saddled by prior actions and statements made by Kupchella and Thomas. *He's paying for the sins of his predecessors. *

By wasting time on a year before their exploritory year, precious time will be wasted on exploring silly proposals to selectively move up programs,the stupid nickname issue, and posturing to appear intellectually superior. *If they are going to move as they have stated, it puzzles me that they can't see the need for urgency. *The Mid Con, who I think is going to be great for NDSU's BB programs, showed no interrest what so ever in considering a school that was DII. *This is the rule not the exception when trying to find a conference in IA. *This timid leap by UND is OK for me because the longer they posture and wait, the more distance NDSU will put between the two schools. *Hell, I love having a four plus year head start. *I'm sure SDSU does as well.

Mr._Bill
07-03-2006, 11:57 PM
"UND had no Choice" *. . . yea right. * UND has had many choices over the past few years . . . many choices, they just haven't made many good ones.

Recent UND Choices:
How to deal with the Indian tribes on the naming issue.
How to work with the NCAA on the naming issue.
Expressing your opinions on NDSU's potential D1 move
How you *treat NDSU in their D1 transiton
Whether or not to stay in the NCC and position yourself firmly as #2 in ND. *Yes this is a choice.
Discussing the D1 issue over and over, forever and ever, until everyone is complete sick of hearing about it and seeing your inactivity.
Actually making a decisoin . . . *on the D1 move.
Whether you lead or you follow.
Doing what is best for your school or following other schools.


These are all und choices. *Everyday we all make choices that we have to live with. *I am glad to the NDSU administration is not afraid to make decisions, and I'm glad they have a mind of their own.

BisBison
07-04-2006, 04:23 AM
"UND had no Choice" *. . . yea right. * UND has had many choices over the past few years . . . many choices, they just haven't made many good ones.

Recent UND Choices:
How to deal with the Indian tribes on the naming issue.
How to work with the NCAA on the naming issue.
Expressing your opinions on NDSU's potential D1 move
How you *treat NDSU in their D1 transiton
Whether or not to stay in the NCC and position yourself firmly as #2 in ND. *Yes this is a choice.
Discussing the D1 issue over and over, forever and ever, until everyone is complete sick of hearing about it and seeing your inactivity.
Actually making a decisoin . . . *on the D1 move.
Whether you lead or you follow.
Doing what is best for your school or following other schools.


These are all und choices. *Everyday we all make choices that we have to live with. *I am glad to the NDSU administration is not afraid to make decisions, and I'm glad they have a mind of their own.



Well spoken On Bison

insane_ponderer
07-04-2006, 05:35 AM
I think someone should make sure to forward this article to all the presidents of the mid-con schools and anyone of any importance involved with the conference just to make sure when und is begging for conference scraps that they remember not to let them in to their "watered down" "falling apart" conference.

Since no one else is apparently going to point out the obvious to you and a couple of the others, then I'll do it: *The story didn't come from UND. *It is not a UND press release. *It came from the GF Herald. *A columnist. *His PERSONAL opinion. *You want to forward a columnist's opinion piece to all the president's of the mid-con schools? *Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? *On Friday morning, UND Athletic Director Tom Buning was being interviewed on a local radio show. *One of the sports guys tried to goad him into saying something negative about the mid-con. *Buning not only didn't take the bait, he also said, quote, "Any conference is a good conference". *He again congratulated the Bison on their success in finding a conference. *If you have a problem with Kevin Fee, then state that. *I have a hard time believing that you would want ALL of McFeeley's columns associated with NDSU. *Please try to keep an open mind in the future.


Good point, I do understand that he is just some random columnist on the level of a Mcfeely (although probably a bit lower because we all know the wonderful quality of the gf herald).

I really don't have a problem with the new AD up there, from everything I have heard he might be the one voice of reason up there. But, everyone knows that this was and has been unds stance and kupchellas stance and was rt's stance when he actually mattered to NDSU. The more NDSU succeeds the more crap und talks and now they are basically talking themselves into circles because everything they said painting d1-aa and the various conferences in a negative light has and hopefully will come back to bite them when they need these conferences to accept them as a member or schedule them for games.

BisonBacker
07-04-2006, 11:42 AM
This is all being thrown around and the sue are not even commited yet to DI. Remember folks they have the option to stay DII.

bincitysioux
07-04-2006, 03:20 PM
I guarantee you the commissioner and conference presidents have been following the stories in the news papers. *Why else would Tom Douple use the phrase "They had the guts to make the move and withstood arrows of criticism by doing so". *That is paraphrased a little but pretty close. *They know UND was highly critical of NDSU's move and division I for the past 3 or 4 years. *UND will not only have to prove they belong in division I if they continue to make the move, but they will also have to overcome their criticism of division I and attacks on their former conference foes in the eyes of the conferences as well.

All while NDSU has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level.

UND has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level for around 60 years.

virgfoss
07-04-2006, 03:33 PM
Too bad non-hocky fans didn't notice. That's only like 99% of the country, though, so I wouldn't cry.

kchats
07-04-2006, 03:51 PM
I guarantee you the commissioner and conference presidents have been following the stories in the news papers. *Why else would Tom Douple use the phrase "They had the guts to make the move and withstood arrows of criticism by doing so". *That is paraphrased a little but pretty close. *They know UND was highly critical of NDSU's move and division I for the past 3 or 4 years. *UND will not only have to prove they belong in division I if they continue to make the move, but they will also have to overcome their criticism of division I and attacks on their former conference foes in the eyes of the conferences as well.

All while NDSU has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level.

UND has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level for around 60 years.


Too bad none of the conferences that UND will have to approach for membership care about hockey. I'm sure the schools in the Mid Con are more interested in the basketball, volleyball, baseball, softball and track and field teams. They are also taking note of what is said about their institutions by prospective members and I'm sure the WCHA doesn't mean a thing to them.

The Big Sky is nothing more than a tease that enjoys knowing how interested schools are in membership only to stroke their ego.

broke_back_mnt
07-04-2006, 04:04 PM
WCHA doesnt have football or basketball. In fact its mostly the NCC anyway. Id be concerned if I were comissioner of a league looking to expand and had a hockey school on the list. Hockey represents a significant cash drain as the Und deficit attests. Could weaken them in other DI sports important to the conference.

gcichy
07-04-2006, 10:08 PM
Und has to be careful on what they say. Here in Wisconsin there have been rumors of the Big Ten taking over Hockey. If that happens UND is up creek with their great Hockey program. Now with the BIG TEN TV network I would not be surprise if that happens!! UND should have gone to DI when NDSU and SDSU did . They did not and UND should worry not US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO BISON. Happy 4th of July

Sioux1
07-05-2006, 12:33 AM
Und has to be careful on what they say. *Here in Wisconsin there have been rumors of the Big Ten taking over Hockey. *If that happens UND is up creek with their great Hockey program. *Now with the BIG TEN TV network I would not be surprise if that happens!! *UND should have gone to DI when NDSU and SDSU did . *They did not and UND should worry not US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *GO BISON. Happy 4th of July

There has been rumors of a Big Ten hocky league for the last 15-20 years. The big Ten Tv Network will not cause teams to want to form a Big Ten Hockey League. Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan already have FSN channels that cover there hockey games. I don't see them wanting to split those TV revenues with other Big Ten schools. That's not to say a Big Ten Hockey conference won't happen...But the beginning of a Big Ten TV network will not be the reason they will begin a hockey conference.

BisonMav
07-05-2006, 12:56 AM
All while NDSU has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level

UND has been making friends, forming relationships at the DI level for around 60 years.

I had not heard UND had no choice of moving hockey to DI in 2 years? *:-?

Dopey me, I thought they already were DI in hockey. *;D ;)

BisonMav
07-05-2006, 12:58 AM
Too bad non-hocky fans didn't notice. *That's only like 99% of the country, though, so I wouldn't cry.


Forming relationships at the I-AA level in football vs being critical of I-AA football ala a VirgFossism. *;)