DII gone? [Archive] - Bisonville Forums

MplsBison

06-11-2006, 02:48 PM

There isn't a DII in ice hockey anymore and there isn't a DII for some other sports as well.

But could DII as a whole be going away?

The NCAA has about 1200 schools.

I'd say 400 schools in the US could afford to sponser the minumum number of scholarships and sports that are required to be DI.

That leaves 800 or so that would be in DIII if DII disappeared.

There are also about 300 schools in the NAIA. That would be closer to 1000-1100 in DIII if they joined the NCAA.

sambini

06-11-2006, 03:18 PM

WOW

MinotBison

06-11-2006, 03:25 PM

You mean our friends to the North would maybe wind up in D-III?

roadwarrior

06-11-2006, 05:25 PM

This is a ridiculous idea ::)

Tatanka

06-11-2006, 05:34 PM

Not the first one brought up recently, and probably not the last.

tony

06-11-2006, 05:39 PM

There are more DII schools than ever.

BisonMav

06-11-2006, 05:39 PM

This is a ridiculous idea ::)

++++++++++++++++++++++...................infinity

kchats

06-11-2006, 06:31 PM

Look at all the schools moving up to division II from NAIA. That was a big reason NDSU starting looking to leave. When Moorhead State moved up that showed NDSU they needed to get out.

MplsBison

06-11-2006, 07:50 PM

DII going away is not my idea.

This is an offshoot of the SCSU DI article where it says that DII could be in trouble.

Just seeing what you guys thought about it.

tcbison

06-12-2006, 01:33 PM

DII going away is not my idea.

This is an offshoot of the SCSU DI article where it says that DII could be in trouble.

Just seeing what you guys thought about it.

Do you have a link to the article?

IowaBisonToo

06-12-2006, 01:51 PM

MplsBison

06-12-2006, 09:49 PM

Well the thing is, why offer a handful of scholarships when you can offer none and save all that money? You know.

I can see the lower end DII schools thinking like that.

The higher up DII schools obviously then look to I-AA.

If you go to the SCSU DI thread the link is there: http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060611/SPORTS/106110007/1002

Thomas said that the NCAA wants to keep the Division II level of competition, but the fact that the NCC has lost four members since 2000 is an alarm.

Bisonguy

06-12-2006, 11:28 PM

DII going away is not my idea.

This is an offshoot of the SCSU DI article where it says that DII could be in trouble.

Just seeing what you guys thought about it.
DII may be in trouble in terms of the vast chasm between the haves and the have-not's but I highly doubt DII would go under. *You see the influx of NAIA into DII because they can already offer scholarships. *DIII can't so it would be a more difficult jump. *I guess I just don't see it happening.

DII needs to split into two levels, just like DI, for football.

I proposed this idea a few years back on the D2football.com board, only to have it dismissed as something that would not work. Now, they seem much more open to the idea.

kchats

06-13-2006, 01:25 AM

Division II needs to be more strict with their scholarship levels. They also need to implement a probationary transition period similar to division I that might be a deterent to schools that can't afford to make the move. The biggest problem division II has is that they cater to the schools with no budget instead of the larger schools with big budgets. The only time division II ever pays attention to what a division II school with a large budget says is as they are moving up to division I and by then it is too late. I still think they need to implement a formula where the teams that fund the maximum amount of scholarships. Points awarded toward wins and losses should be adjusted based on the opponents scholarship levels and by doing that it would encourage or force the conferences that don't have scholarship levels at the maximum to get there. If a conference can't make the playoffs because their scholarship levels aren't at the maximum they should raise money and get them there. If schools with no funding are looking at moving to division II they would then understand they have little chance at playoffs or tournaments unless they fund scholarships at the maximum level. Until the schools that have the funding are in control and command division II will continue to have problems.

MplsBison

06-13-2006, 10:28 AM

Isn't there a proposal to have DII-A and DII-AA with separate playoffs and scholarship limits or did I just dream this up?

BisonMav

06-13-2006, 12:10 PM

DII as it was in the 70's and 80's is gone, mostly to I-AA.

Yes, I heard talk of a DII splitting into scholarship levels.

IowaBisonToo

06-13-2006, 02:14 PM

Read the SC Times article and saw Kurtz' picture. I don't think that guy has change one bit since I dealt with him when I was in school there back in the late 80's.

RodentiaX

06-13-2006, 09:58 PM

I think a better idea is to add a new NCAA division between the current D-II and D-III divisions. That division could absorb the current NAIA schools, and keep D-II from being watered down by schools that don't belong in D-II. D-II's in trouble, but it's not going to fold. One big reason that the NAIA exists is because there are schools that don't want to play D-III, but D-II is too big a jump for them. If a new division isn't added, sooner or later these schools flooding to D-II will get the scholarships reduced.

If a new division were added, I think NAIA would fold, a lot of D-III schools would move up to the new division, and some D-II schools would move down to the new division. It would allow D-II to add scholarships, and bring much needed stability to the NCAA.

MplsBison

06-13-2006, 10:04 PM

I already said that I thought I saw a proposal for DII that would split it into DII-A and DII-AA (A would have something like 36 scholarships to AA's 24 or so, each with separate playoffs).

BisonMav

06-14-2006, 02:44 AM

I already said that I thought I saw a proposal for DII that would split it into DII-A and DII-AA (A would have something like 36 scholarships to AA's 24 or so, each with separate playoffs).

I heard 18 for the AA's.

MinotBison

06-14-2006, 04:02 AM

What is the NSIC limit for FB scholarships? I think it is 22, but I could be wrong.

sambini

06-14-2006, 04:28 AM

Minot I THINK YOU ARE RUGHT WITH 22. MSUM IN MOORHEAD HAS 13?

Bisonguy

06-14-2006, 04:37 AM

The NSIC limits at 21. MSUM funded 5 last year. :o

The only school that I've heard funds the full conference limit was either SW Minnesota State or Wayne State. The rest of the conference is below the limit of 21.

sambini

06-14-2006, 04:49 AM

How does Winona do it?

kchats

06-14-2006, 05:04 AM

UC-Davis technically had no scholarships when they were division II. I'm sure Winona is probably covering the other scholarships by some other academic aid.

Bisonguy

06-14-2006, 05:16 AM

Winona funds somewhere between 15-17.
Winona has a pretty good location for recruiting.

UC-Davis, well, they have nearly 30k students in California. As long as they have a good coaching staff, the student-athletes for football will be there.

sambini

06-14-2006, 07:39 AM

DAVIS GETS GOOD KIDS AND THEY ARE RIGHT AROUND 30K . LOCATION DOESN'T HURT EITHER. I'VE BEEN OUT THERE FOUR TIMES FOR GAMES . HOPE THE NEW STADIUM IS DONE THIS YEAR?

MplsBison

06-14-2006, 01:28 PM

Davis has fairly high academic standards.

Plus, as it was already mentioned, there are a million football players in CA.

The new stadium (if it ever gets built) will also help.

Paulie

06-14-2006, 09:39 PM

TransAmBison

06-14-2006, 09:42 PM

Davis has fairly high academic standards.

Plus, as it was already mentioned, there are a million football players in CA.

The new stadium (if it ever gets built) will also help.

WHEN WILL THE *MADNESS STOP!!?

CANT WE FEAKIN IGNORE UC DAVIS!?!?!?

PLEASE!! *CANT WE KEEP BISONVILLE *AGGIELESS?!?

I don't think ANY of you are capable!!!!!!!! *my GOD!!!!

ID SAY 5% of ALL OF YOUR POSTS... in EVERY CATEGORY..... IS ABOUT UCD!!.

GET OVER IT!!! * WE ARE DIVISON 1.... *SCREW THEM!!!! * *ARGH!! * *IM DONE>...

IF I EVER POST ABOUT UCD.... BAN ME.. PLEASE!!

I can't stop laughing. Wouldn't say it's the best post ever...but definitely best of the day, maybe week, would get votes for the month...

RedRiver

06-14-2006, 10:02 PM

Davis has fairly high academic standards.

Plus, as it was already mentioned, there are a million football players in CA.

The new stadium (if it ever gets built) will also help.

WHEN WILL THE *MADNESS STOP!!?

CANT WE FEAKIN IGNORE UC DAVIS!?!?!?

PLEASE!! *CANT WE KEEP BISONVILLE *AGGIELESS?!?

I don't think ANY of you are capable!!!!!!!! *my GOD!!!!

ID SAY 5% of ALL OF YOUR POSTS... in EVERY CATEGORY..... IS ABOUT UCD!!.

GET OVER IT!!! * WE ARE DIVISON 1.... *SCREW THEM!!!! * *ARGH!! * *IM DONE>...

IF I EVER POST ABOUT UCD.... BAN ME.. PLEASE!!

UC Davis is Division I and on the NDSU schedule, whereas the other school is not!!

Bisonguy

06-14-2006, 10:23 PM

Davis has fairly high academic standards.

Plus, as it was already mentioned, there are a million football players in CA.

The new stadium (if it ever gets built) will also help.

WHEN WILL THE *MADNESS STOP!!?

CANT WE FEAKIN IGNORE UC DAVIS!?!?!?

PLEASE!! *CANT WE KEEP BISONVILLE *AGGIELESS?!?

I don't think ANY of you are capable!!!!!!!! *my GOD!!!!

ID SAY 5% of ALL OF YOUR POSTS... in EVERY CATEGORY..... IS ABOUT UCD!!.

GET OVER IT!!! * WE ARE DIVISON 1.... *SCREW THEM!!!! * *ARGH!! * *IM DONE>...

IF I EVER POST ABOUT UCD.... BAN ME.. PLEASE!!

I can't stop laughing. *Wouldn't say it's the best post ever...but definitely best of the day, maybe week, would get votes for the month...

++

Scooter

06-14-2006, 11:17 PM

Paulie, that is pretty damn funny. :D :D

RodentiaX

06-15-2006, 01:30 PM

My proposal:

D-IA 85 scholarships
D-IAA 63 scholarships
D-II 40-44 scholarships
D-III 18-24 scholarships
D-IV 0 scholarships

Sticks

06-15-2006, 02:30 PM

Davis has fairly high academic standards.

Plus, as it was already mentioned, there are a million football players in CA.

The new stadium (if it ever gets built) will also help.

WHEN WILL THE *MADNESS STOP!!?

CANT WE FEAKIN IGNORE UC DAVIS!?!?!?

PLEASE!! *CANT WE KEEP BISONVILLE *AGGIELESS?!?

I don't think ANY of you are capable!!!!!!!! *my GOD!!!!

ID SAY 5% of ALL OF YOUR POSTS... in EVERY CATEGORY..... IS ABOUT UCD!!.

GET OVER IT!!! * WE ARE DIVISON 1.... *SCREW THEM!!!! * *ARGH!! * *IM DONE>...

IF I EVER POST ABOUT UCD.... BAN ME.. PLEASE!!

FREAKIN HILARIOUS PAULIE!!!!! * *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D

cadillac

06-15-2006, 02:47 PM

CLASSIC BURN ;D :'( ;D :'(

sambini

06-15-2006, 09:32 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OrneryAggie

06-16-2006, 06:04 PM

Davis has fairly high academic standards.

Plus, as it was already mentioned, there are a million football players in CA.

The new stadium (if it ever gets built) will also help.

WHEN WILL THE *MADNESS STOP!!?

CANT WE FEAKIN IGNORE UC DAVIS!?!?!?

PLEASE!! *CANT WE KEEP BISONVILLE *AGGIELESS?!?

I don't think ANY of you are capable!!!!!!!! *my GOD!!!!

ID SAY 5% of ALL OF YOUR POSTS... in EVERY CATEGORY..... IS ABOUT UCD!!.

GET OVER IT!!! * WE ARE DIVISON 1.... *SCREW THEM!!!! * *ARGH!! * *IM DONE>...

IF I EVER POST ABOUT UCD.... BAN ME.. PLEASE!!

I can't stop laughing. *Wouldn't say it's the best post ever...but definitely best of the day, maybe week, would get votes for the month...

I laughed so hard I started crying. I thought we aggies were the only ones to hijack threads and talk about ourselves. Nice to know we're rubbing off on you. See you all this fall.

sambini

06-17-2006, 04:22 AM

I HOPE TO MAKE THE TRIP+++++++++

Scooter

07-01-2006, 01:37 AM

I thought that a few of you guys would get a kick out of this one.

Let's set the stage, in the past 5 years there has been a mass exidus of strong DII schools into the waters of IAA/IA. *Let's recap, shall we?

1. Cal Davis- perenial playoff contender
2. Northern Colorado- National championships in DII
3. *NDSU- More Championships than any other school
4. SDSU- always in the top thirty in football
5. Central Arkansas- playoffs last year
6. Presbyterian- Playoffs last year
7. (announced intent to move) UND-playoffs and one National championship

So, three of the teams that were in the DII playoffs last year have said that the DII scene is not for them due to the instability of the division. *Now, here is an exerpt from Street and Smith's *DII writer who just happens to be from North Alabama.

"Division II football seams to only be getting better. *Leagues are deeper now than ever, and, even with expanded playoffs it seams as if more and more teams can state their case for the post season."

I want to smoke what he's smoking.

This guy gets my vote for idiot of the year.

MplsBison

07-01-2006, 04:13 AM

My proposal:

D-IA * 85 scholarships
D-IAA 63 scholarships
D-II * *40-44 scholarships
D-III * 18-24 scholarships
D-IV * 0 scholarships

This is about what the DII-A/DII-AA proposal suggests (though they say leave DII-A at 36).

mikelsch

07-13-2006, 03:55 PM

Division II to consider second football championship (from www.ncaa.org on July 13, 2006)

The Division II Management Council will consider a proposal to develop a second Division II Football Championship when it meets July 17-18 in Dallas.

The proposal developed by the Division II Football Issues Task Force would establish a 16-team bracket for teams offering up to 36 financial aid equivalencies and an eight-team bracket for teams offering 50 percent of the maximum or less.

Football-playing conferences have examined the proposal extensively since it was introduced in May, with some discussion focusing on whether the 50 percent figure is an appropriate ceiling for the second bracket. Some sentiment exists to modify the formula so that the ceiling for the second bracket would be at 20 or 24 equivalences, rather than 18 as proposed by the Football Task Force.

Regardless of where the line falls, the creation of a second football championship would have to be voted upon at the annual Convention in January 2007. The Football Task Force proposal recommended an effective date of 2009.

MinotBison

07-13-2006, 04:49 PM

Doesn't the NSIC have a (self imposed?) limit of something like 20-22 scholarships? I would think that they would look favorably upon splitting D-II as it's being proposed.

Scooter

07-13-2006, 04:52 PM

So, which one is it? *Does DII need a second tier championship for those schools that just can't compete with the few elite? Or, is DII as the Street & Smith writer from North Alabama writes, *"Stronger and deeper than it has ever been with more and more schools being able to state their case for the playoffs?" *I'm sure that losing NDSU, SDSU, UNC, Cal Davis, Central Arkansas, Presbyterian,and now UND only made DII stronger. *What the hell was that DII writer smoking?!?

Of course there are more teams that can state their case for the playoffs. *With so many weak conferences that have two teams each with 11-0 and 10-1 records, on paper they look great. *Some of those teams don't see a quality team until the second round of the playoffs. *

These schools have NO CHANCE WHAT SO EVER of winning a DII title. *This was never so evident as when Bloomsburg made it to the championship game and was blown out by Delta State. *Let's not forget UNC's and NDSU's last appearences to the championship game either. *Both were blow out wins playing teams that were obviously in a weaker bracket. *

I'm sure that 9-2 University of South Dakota (who BTW kicked the hell out of UND last year) *thought that those also-ran eastern DII schools were more deserving than they were. *Yeah, right!?! ::) *I'm sure that no one was happier than UND about the fact that USD was left out of the playoffs.

Clearly there are two levels of football in DII. *Why wouldn't the little guys be pushing for this second championship? *Hell, they have effectively cut the scholorship levels so far that the next level of cuts will probably cut into the bone.

Paulie

07-13-2006, 10:28 PM

To me this just creates more confusion. So you'll have a DIIa and a DIIb champion? Will teams align via conference or on their own? Will they need to publish how many scholarships each team has so the general public has some sort of idea who fits where?

If you bother to go to all this trouble just create a new division. DII for 19 to 36 scholarships and DII-AA for 1 to 18.

It's still too many divisions I feel. Either you play in the 36 scholarship world or drop to DIII… or go NAIA if needed.

USA_Hockey

07-14-2006, 03:14 AM

Personally I wouldn't care for this idea. In every division in every sport in college athletics there will always be the have and have nots. Downsizing the divisions and having more national champions isn't as fun in my opinion. One of the things that makes athletics so fun to watch is the underdogs with pride pull off those big upsets. I think having four divisions in football and three in everything else is a good balance.

RodentiaX

07-14-2006, 03:56 AM

The problem is that the big gulf between 0 scholarship D-III and 36 scholarship D-II is causing schools to flood to D-II that can't afford to run a D-II program. That means that sooner or later, there will be enough D-II schools to drop the scholarship limit to 24.

I would sit down with the people who run the NAIA and tell them "We're going to add a new division. We can absorb the NAIA, which means you keep your jobs, or we put the NAIA out of business." The NCAA is more prestigious than the NAIA, and I think a new division would be filled up with schools flooding from the NAIA, the upper ranks of D-III and the lower ranks of D-II.