UND and USD may be on Gateway's radar......

[WYOBISONMAN]

After reading the article in todays Forum it seems that UND and USD are on the radar of some of the Gateway people. *If it did happen that the Mid-Con and Gateway took the xDSUs and the UxDs.......where does that leave the Big Sky? *The folks at the Big Sky ought to be very nervous right about now. *And, that really does not bother me one bit.......

Here is the quote from the article.....

It appears the Gateway is not considering any other schools besides NDSU and SDSU, although Hartzell mentioned the University of North Dakota and the University of South Dakota when asked about expansion.

“That set of four would be attractive,” he said. “But we don’t have to expand, either.”


Here is the link........

http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/144783

[IowaBison]

Why would they be nervous?

They weren't going to add UND or USD.

Their UNC problem, if it even is a problem, is not that big of a deal imo.

[IowaBisonToo]

Hartzell mentioned the UxD's but, he's close enough to know about them - that's it. The other schools might not be. It also doesn't change the fact that the UxD's aren't going to be post-season eligible for some time. Not sure if schools in the Gateway want teams on their schedule that aren't eligible for tournament. Just my $0.02.

[WYOBISONMAN]

My point is that important people are talking about the UxDs.............

[BisonBacker]

YAWN,
I heard that Mary is doing quite well in DII, maybe they are on the radar too ;D ;D ;D ;D

[RedRiver]

Purely a speculative comment from an AD that has ties to the NCC and even hired an x-und coach Glas. Didn't the Gateway Commissioner's office say just last week that only NDSU & SDSU are being considered for expansion? Depending who you ask, U of Mary may be on the radar too!! ;D ;D

[broke_back_mnt]

UMary is a good game for NDSU.

Any time you have independents your are going to have conferences looking at them and they will be looking at conferences. As we know and other schools know even better there are no guarantees. I dont know what the average stay in the independent ranks is, but it seems unlikely a school would remain independent forever. Being independent sure is a hassel for scheduling and recruiting.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would doubt that any conference (with autobids) starts the invite process until the UxDs are a year or two from eligibility, however, the fact that the Sky could get caught in a real pinch makes this thing very interesting. *NDSU and SDSU are in the best position of all because we had the courage to move early, however the way this is shaking out the UxDs may have some options after spending some time in independent purgatory.......

[BisonBacker]

I would doubt that any conference (with autobids) starts the invite process until the UxDs are a year or two from eligibility, however, the fact that the Sky could get caught in a real pinch makes this thing very interesting. *NDSU and SDSU are in the best position of all because we had the courage to move early, however the way this is shaking out the UxDs may have some options after spending some time in independent purgatory.......


Hell we moved 20 years to late >:(

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would doubt that any conference (with autobids) starts the invite process until the UxDs are a year or two from eligibility, however, the fact that the Sky could get caught in a real pinch makes this thing very interesting. *NDSU and SDSU are in the best position of all because we had the courage to move early, however the way this is shaking out the UxDs may have some options after spending some time in independent purgatory.......


Hell we moved 20 years to late *>:(

I won't argue with you on that at all...........

[tony]

Hehe, I've been waiting a few years to bring this up (I was waiting for an NDSU v UNI game). UNI's AD was one of the sources the Grand Forks Herald ran to every time they needed a quote to show that NDSU was blithely going to their DI doom.

Anyway, here are the quotes from the Herald article, written by Virg Foss:



If NDSU is to have any chance at succeeding at the Division I level, Hartzell said, it must find conference affiliation.

To make that move without it is suicide, Hartzell said. You cannot play as a Division I independent. You ll end up traveling all over the country to find games. And without a conference, no matter how good your facilities are, kids won t come to your school.

Hartzell said that the Gateway Conference would likely reject any overture from NDSU for membership - for several reasons.

We already have strong teams in the conference in Southwest Missouri State, Illinois State, Western Kentucky and Youngstown, Hartzell said. Why would you take somebody else in that you think might be able to beat you? It s the same reason why the Big Ten is hesitant to take in Notre Dame. Brutal truth

There s another reason why the Gateway Conference isn t likely to look kindly on a possible application from NDSU, Hartzell said.

I can only speak for myself, but you look around the league and you ll find a lot of schools that feel like they ve paid their dues at the Division I level and are now trying to elevate programs, Hartzell said. They d (NDSU) have to give us a very good reason why we should let them into that fraternity. That s just the bold, honest truth.

Hartzell said he was on the front side of accepting Western Kentucky into the Gateway Conference. I m not so sure it was a good idea, Hartzell said. For one thing, they re good. And it s a long and hard trip for us to travel there, and they have some admission standards and financial aid issues that are different than ours. If Western Kentucky hadn t been brought in, I think schools like NDSU and UND would have had a better chance of getting into the conference.

Conference affiliation could be a major hurdle for NDSU. The Big Sky Conference - including schools such as Montana and Montana State - has an indefinite moratorium on expansion. It also has expressed no interest in expanding to the Midwest.

.....

Hartzell said NDSU can t expect to be welcomed with open arms as an incoming Division I program. We learned that established Division I programs show you no mercy, Hartzell said. They don t care if you re new to it or not.

That's ironic on so many levels :)

[WYOBISONMAN]

Thanks Tony............very interesting and it puts those comments in a realistic light............

[virgfoss]

Hehe, I've been waiting a few years to bring this up (I was waiting for an NDSU v UNI game). UNI's AD was one of the sources the Grand Forks Herald ran to every time they needed a quote to show that NDSU was blithely going to their DI doom.

Anyway, here are the quotes from the Herald article, written by Virg Foss:

[quote]
If NDSU is to have any chance at succeeding at the Division I level, Hartzell said, it must find conference affiliation.

To make that move without it is suicide, Hartzell said. You cannot play as a Division I independent. You ll end up traveling all over the country to find games. And without a conference, no matter how good your facilities are, kids won t come to your school.

Hartzell said that the Gateway Conference would likely reject any overture from NDSU for membership - for several reasons.

We already have strong teams in the conference in Southwest Missouri State, Illinois State, Western Kentucky and Youngstown, Hartzell said. Why would you take somebody else in that you think might be able to beat you? It s the same reason why the Big Ten is hesitant to take in Notre Dame. Brutal truth

There s another reason why the Gateway Conference isn t likely to look kindly on a possible application from NDSU, Hartzell said.

I can only speak for myself, but you look around the league and you ll find a lot of schools that feel like they ve paid their dues at the Division I level and are now trying to elevate programs, Hartzell said. They d (NDSU) have to give us a very good reason why we should let them into that fraternity. That s just the bold, honest truth.

Hartzell said he was on the front side of accepting Western Kentucky into the Gateway Conference. I m not so sure it was a good idea, Hartzell said. For one thing, they re good. And it s a long and hard trip for us to travel there, and they have some admission standards and financial aid issues that are different than ours. If Western Kentucky hadn t been brought in, I think schools like NDSU and UND would have had a better chance of getting into the conference.

Conference affiliation could be a major hurdle for NDSU. The Big Sky Conference - including schools such as Montana and Montana State - has an indefinite moratorium on expansion. It also has expressed no interest in expanding to the Midwest.

.....

Hartzell said NDSU can t expect to be welcomed with open arms as an incoming Division I program. We learned that established Division I programs show you no mercy, Hartzell said. They don t care if you re new to it or not.


Northern Iowa sucks.

[ALPHAMALE]

I don't understand how the Gateway would ever take UND and USD, unless there are additional defections.

A two division format is stupid in I-AA, it leads to the need for a conference championship game, which 1. would interfere with the playoffs, and 2. Cause one of your two best teams to have a blemish on their record, which would reduce their standing in the playoff committees eyes. I doubt the conference is interested in letting two newcomers in to accomplish that.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I agree that there would probably have to be defections from both the MidCon and the Gateway to open the doors to the UxDs. However, this conference stuff seems to be in a constant state of turmoil and who knows what the world will look like in 5 years. I think 5 years from now NDSU could be getting ready to join the Horizon or Mo. Valley........

[silkamilkamonico]

We already have strong teams in the conference in Southwest Missouri State, Illinois State, Western Kentucky and Youngstown, Hartzell said. Why would you take somebody else in that you think might be able to beat you? It s the same reason why the Big Ten is hesitant to take in Notre Dame. Brutal truth


This is an interesting statement.


The Big 10 wanting ND is more likely to happen then ND wanting to be in the Big 10, which is very likely to never happen.

They get too many guarantees from a financial standpoint by being independant, and more specifically by being ND.

[mikelsch]

Notre Dame has an open invitation to join the Big Ten. Independent football is the only reason they haven't joined already.

This issue came up a couple years ago when the ACC started the conference reallignment cascade

[BisonBacker]

I think USD and und are on the outside looking in at this point.

[mikelsch]

I think UND and USD have a good shot at getting into the Mid-Con/Great West

They would be able to keep the Great West intact, and would make a nice 12-team Mid-Con

[BisonBacker]

Mid-Con is not interested in 12 team split conference from what I've read. I think the kool-aid drinkers over on ss.com want to believe that but I don't think there is much chance of it happening. Now if the Mid-Con was to lose another school maybe something would happen but I don't see them going to 12 schools.

[BisonBacker]

Besides they can take our place in the GWFC. The conference rank will go down but oh well they need to start somewhere.

[lakesbison]

THE MIAC WOULD BE THE PERFECT FIT FOR THEM.

TO BE IN A CONFERENCE WITH LONG STANDING SNOBS LIKE TOMMIES, JOHNNIES, ETC ETC..

PERFECT FIT!

[BisonBacker]

THE MIAC WOULD BE THE PERFECT FIT FOR THEM.

TO BE IN A CONFERENCE WITH LONG STANDING SNOBS LIKE TOMMIES, JOHNNIES, ETC ETC..

PERFECT FIT!
Besides they are used to playing that powerhouse Crookston. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[bincitysioux]

THE MIAC WOULD BE THE PERFECT FIT FOR THEM.

TO BE IN A CONFERENCE WITH LONG STANDING SNOBS LIKE TOMMIES, JOHNNIES, ETC ETC..

PERFECT FIT!
Besides they are used to playing that powerhouse Crookston. *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

*cough* Moorhead *cough* :D

[drewaely]

THE MIAC WOULD BE THE PERFECT FIT FOR THEM.

TO BE IN A CONFERENCE WITH LONG STANDING SNOBS LIKE TOMMIES, JOHNNIES, ETC ETC..

PERFECT FIT!
Besides they are used to playing that powerhouse Crookston. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

*cough* Moorhead *cough* :D


That's not a slam as Moorhead is not any worse than Crookston.

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

USD and UND are not going to get into the Gateway at the same time as NDSU and SDSU. The SU's might get in and pave the way for the addition of USD and UND a ways down the road, but if NDSU can't get into long-term conferences right off the bat, why should we believe that USD and UND can? Also, I think USD needs to address its finances before they go d-1, as they had to cut baseball a couple years back to save dough.

[bincitysioux]

..... I think USD needs to address its finances before they go d-1, as they had to cut baseball a couple years back to save dough.

If I remember right, I think they actually cut baseball for Title IX reasons.

[Bisonguy]

UND will not be on the Gateway's radar until an invite from the Mid-Con (or any other DI non-football conference) is accepted.

[dakotadan]

I think USD and UND are on the outside looking in at this point. *

This is definately true, as neither school has even submitted it's paperwork for DI. But the fact that people in these various conferences have mentioned UND and USD is good news for us. At least we know we are on the radar for possible future expansion or movement and are being talked about when these conferences are discussing their future.

[DIBISON]

Consider who is doing the talking, an athletic director!! Has anyone heard anybody else mention any other schools but NDSU & SDSU??

[bisonbballfan]

As much as I hate UND, they are a rather attractive program to conferences. Here is the scenerio that I see happening. NDSU and SDSU will be admitted to the Gateway, and will begin conference play in 2008. Once UND has been D1 for a little bit the conference will look at the facilities that they have up there, and will see that they do have good programs. Once they see the programs, they will think geographically and it becomes an obvious choice to add the school, because of the distance between UND and NDSU. Basically they are rather attractive and it would be hard for the conference to pass them up, after they are established. As for USD, I have no idea about the facilities and the programs. Once again UND will follow NDSU, and attempt to succeed.

[drewaely]

As much as I hate UND, they are a rather attractive program to conferences. Here is the scenerio that I see happening. NDSU and SDSU will be admitted to the Gateway, and will begin conference play in 2008. Once UND has been D1 for a little bit the conference will look at the facilities that they have up there, and will see that they do have good programs. Once they see the programs, they will think geographically and it becomes an obvious choice to add the school, because of the distance between UND and NDSU. Basically they are rather attractive and it would be hard for the conference to pass them up, after they are established. As for USD, I have no idea about the facilities and the programs. Once again UND will follow NDSU, and attempt to succeed.

That sounds great but you're still forgetting the fact that the gateway will NOT expand further (without someone else leaving). With NDSU and SDSU that would make the gateway a 9 team league. I seriously doubt that they will want to add UND or USD because 11 teams is too big to be in one conference. They also won't split into EAST/WEST because there would need to be a playoff to determine a champion which would add another game and interfere with d1-aa playoffs.

Also, how does geography help UxD's??? It's not like other sports when you travel up or down 1-29 to catch a game on the following day. A team would have to go to NDSU, fly/bus home and then fly/bus BACK to UND.... To me that seems silly and is in no way a benefit to any of the current schools.

While UND and USD might be attractive flagship schools, I just don't see them bringing anything to the Gateway. Now, with that being said, I think that it's much more likely that the geography would be favorable for the mid-con (assuming that other schools leave).

[Bison_Dan]

As much as I hate UND, they are a rather attractive program to conferences. Here is the scenerio that I see happening. NDSU and SDSU will be admitted to the Gateway, and will begin conference play in 2008. Once UND has been D1 for a little bit the conference will look at the facilities that they have up there, and will see that they do have good programs. Once they see the programs, they will think geographically and it becomes an obvious choice to add the school, because of the distance between UND and NDSU. Basically they are rather attractive and it would be hard for the conference to pass them up, after they are established. As for USD, I have no idea about the facilities and the programs. Once again UND will follow NDSU, and attempt to succeed.

That sounds great but you're still forgetting the fact that the gateway will NOT expand further (without someone else leaving). *With NDSU and SDSU that would make the gateway a 9 team league. *I seriously doubt that they will want to add UND or USD because 11 teams is too big to be in one conference. *They also won't split into EAST/WEST because there would need to be a playoff to determine a champion which would add another game and interfere with d1-aa playoffs.

Also, how does geography help UxD's??? *It's not like other sports when you travel up or down 1-29 to catch a game on the following day. *A team would have to go to NDSU, fly/bus home and then fly/bus BACK to UND.... *To me that seems silly and is in no way a benefit to any of the current schools. *

While UND and USD might be attractive flagship schools, I just don't see them bringing anything to the Gateway. *Now, with that being said, I think that it's much more likely that the geography would be favorable for the mid-con (assuming that other schools leave).

Your right on! ;D

[RedRiver]

NDSU & SDSU got into the Mid-Con and soon to be Gateway because of defections from those conferences. It will have to be the same situation for the USD and und to get into any conference down the road (other than the Great West)!!

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would doubt that conferences will remain perfectly stable. There is always some movement going on. that movement creats opportunity for new programs. Valpo moving to the Horizon and Chicago State leaving created fantastic opportunities for us......I would suspect that as the UxDs progress towards eligibility there will be similar stuff happening. UND is a quality program, eventhough I can't stand them. USD I have many more questions about. I think UND will get the money from supporters to do this move right. I am not sure a school as small as USD and in a town as small as Vermillion can.

[IowaBisonToo]

I agree w/ WYO. I mentioned it on another thread that I had heard Myles Brand talking on the radio about how many schools have such ridiculously skewed budgets and deficits in the red that I have to think, also, that the schools changing/leaving conferences thing may have only just begun. Example, schools dropping from IA to IAA in football would change the way certain schools moving from II to IAA are affiliated in the future.

Maybe if these types of changes happen, a conference like the GWFC or even a new conference would flourish with the addition of the UXD's. Who knows, maybe in 15 years NDSU will be talking about how we're going to move to someplace like the MAC or Conf. USA. Then the UXD's would have someplace to go. ;D ;D ;D

[BisonBacker]

I think its a safe bet that where ever we go they are sure to follow. Remember we are the leaders and they are the followers. They can try to spin it anyway they want but that is a FACT!

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

The more I think about it, the more UND and USD being added to the BSC as part of later expansion sounds more reasonable to me than for them to be added to the Mid-con and Gateway. Indications are that the Mid-con does not want to expand to the point of being a two-league conference, and if the SU's are added to the Gateway, that would give them that magic number of nine teams, and I don't see why they'd want to expand past that just to add the UXD's.

[met1990]

I think the UXD's are in the same position the XDSU's were in when trying to make it into the Big Sky. It was certainly possible the XDSU's could get in the Big Sky, but there wasn't really a logical reason for them to be added. I think many Bison fans lost sight of that.

There was a logical reason to add the XDSU's to the Mid Con and the Gateway--conference stability and ease of scheduling. Basically, they needed some teams and the XDSU's more than fit the bill.

Outside of the GWFC, unless the (fill in the blank) conference loses a team (or suddenly gets the urge to expand just for the hell of it), there isn't a logical conference for the UXD's. I'm sure that will change in time, as it has for the XDSU's.

[kchats]

That is why you make the move prior to having a conference so when a conference is ready for you the transition is almost over or over so you are more attractive to them. If UND had listened to NDSU, SDSU and UNC and made the move to the conference expansions would have been very interesting. Now UND is on the outside looing in.

[BisBison]

That is why you make the move prior to having a conference so when a conference is ready for you the transition is almost over or over so you are more attractive to them. *If UND had listened to NDSU, SDSU and UNC and made the move to the conference expansions would have been very interesting. *Now UND is on the outside looing in.

The funny thing about that is they don't even know it. They think conferences are lining up to get them simply because they are the mighty SUE. The arrogance from up there is amazing.

[WYOBISONMAN]

That is why you make the move prior to having a conference so when a conference is ready for you the transition is almost over or over so you are more attractive to them. *If UND had listened to NDSU, SDSU and UNC and made the move to the conference expansions would have been very interesting. *Now UND is on the outside looing in.

The funny thing about that is they don't even know it. They think conferences are lining up to get them simply because they are the mighty SUE. The arrogance from up there is amazing.

I think that most the reasonable posters over on Sioux Sports realize that there is going to be some time served in Independent Purgatory and they will have to wait to see what is moving and shaking on the conference scene as they approach eligibility. There are a few that are arrogant and think they have the conferences lining up.......it is just that the arrogant ones do a lot of the posting.....

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

Just a hypothetical question here, but lets flashback a couple years and say NDSU, SDSU, UND and USD all went D-1 at the same time. How would the conference situation have worked out? We would have a 7 team GWFC. Would we be looking to expand that or get into the Gateway? Which 2 teams would have gotten into the Mid-Con? Just interesting to ponder.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Just a hypothetical question here, but lets flashback a couple years and say NDSU, SDSU, UND and USD all went D-1 at the same time. *How would the conference situation have worked out? *We would have a 7 team GWFC. *Would we be looking to expand that or get into the Gateway? *Which 2 teams would have gotten into the Mid-Con? *Just interesting to ponder.

It may be a fairly different world.......for one the GWFC would be close to getting an auto-bid. As for the rest of it.........I couldn't imagine what would have shaken out.

[broke_back_mnt]

NDSU and SDSU would have been invited to the Mid Con. The other two would have been left in the BB scheduling alliance. All would be in the GWFC with the Great Land Grants seemingly headed for the Gateway.

[mikelsch]

The Gateway will never touch UND or USD until they committ to an all-sports conference (i.e. Mid-Con). The Gateway won't offer and then have UND/USD go to the Big Sky. This was the same process that happened with NDSU and SDSU.

[RedRiver]

The Gateway will never touch UND or USD until they committ to an all-sports conference (i.e. Mid-Con). *The Gateway won't offer and then have UND/USD go to the Big Sky. *This was the same process that happened with NDSU and SDSU.

And there will also have to be some members leaving the Gateway, otherwise there is no reason for them to expand!!

[ALPHAMALE]

An important thing to remember is that if any schools leave the mid-con, they next member to be added is going to be UTPA. It has to be, because their the only school that can help with the auto-bid for the conference. SDSU, NDSU, USD, and UND all do nothing to help with that, and another defection would put the conference at a critical point. Its funny that little things like that never get pointed out in these "in-depth" reports that are presented by USD and UND though.

Edit: I got that off of SS if your interested, I'll provide the link!

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

Do NDSU and SDSU start counting towards the auto-bid as soon as they are in the conference and playoff eligible? If so then the UXD's might garner some consideration once the SU's count towards the auto-bid. Good point though, I hadn't even considered that in this discussion.

[Hammersmith]

Do NDSU and SDSU start counting towards the auto-bid as soon as they are in the conference and playoff eligible? *If so then the UXD's might garner some consideration once the SU's count towards the auto-bid. *Good point though, I hadn't even considered that in this discussion.
Gateway = yes/no (playoff eligible + 2 years in-conference for continuity of membership)
Mid-Con = no (playoff eligible + 8 years, including 5 for continuity of membership)

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

That is outrageous! So now that we are in the Mid-Con it is going to be another eight years before we count towards the auto-bid. So, doing my math, that leaves:
4 years in the transition thus far
1 year of transition in Mid-Con
7 years additionally
--------------------------------------
12 stinkin' years from start of transition to full membership in 1-AA. The people at the NaziAA must be outside their minds!

[ALPHAMALE]

Its a hel! of a lot better than we we started the transition and we weren't eligible for the tournament for 16 years.

[Hammersmith]

That is outrageous! So now that we are in the Mid-Con it is going to be another eight years before we count towards the auto-bid. So, doing my math, that leaves:
4 years in the transition thus far
1 year of transition in Mid-Con
7 years additionally
--------------------------------------
12 stinkin' years from start of transition to full membership in 1-AA. The people at the NaziAA must be outside their minds!
NCAA DI membership is divided into two levels: active and core. An active member is playoff eligible and has all the rights of a DI institution. After eight years as an active member has passed, a university is considered a core institution of DI. As far as I know, this status is only important when determining a conference's automatic qualifier eligibility. Core institution status also only applies to conferences sponsoring major sports(sports played by more than 50% of DI (DI-AA football is not included in that)).

Please remember that, except for the occasional executive decision, the NCAA is an organization run by its member institutions. If you want to put the blame for this somewhere, make sure to place it where it's deserved: the big basketball schools that benefit most from the lucrative media contracts. They are the ones who voted these rules through.

[TheBisonator]

That is outrageous! *So now that we are in the Mid-Con it is going to be another eight years before we count towards the auto-bid. *So, doing my math, that leaves:
4 years in the transition thus far
1 year of transition in Mid-Con
7 years additionally
--------------------------------------
12 stinkin' years from start of transition to full membership in 1-AA. *The people at the NaziAA must be outside their minds!
NCAA DI membership is divided into two levels: active and core. An active member is playoff eligible and has all the rights of a DI institution. After eight years as an active member has passed, a university is considered a core institution of DI. As far as I know, this status is only important when determining a conference's automatic qualifier eligibility. Core institution status also only applies to conferences sponsoring major sports(sports played by more than 50% of DI (DI-AA football is not included in that)).

Please remember that, except for the occasional executive decision, the NCAA is an organization run by its member institutions. If you want to put the blame for this somewhere, make sure to place it where it's deserved: the big basketball schools that benefit most from the lucrative media contracts. They are the ones who voted these rules through.

Is an active member elligible to get any slice of the sweet sweet March Madness pie??

[Hammersmith]

Is an active member eligible to get any slice of the sweet sweet March Madness pie??
If they are part of a conference that gets money, then yes, I believe they do. I think there is some kind of waiting period, but I'm not sure of the details. I think the NCAA? uses a rolling period to determine how much each conference gets, and until a new conference member gets into that rolling period, they don't get any conference money. If a new member makes it into the big dance, then they get that money regardless of their time in-conference. I'll try to find the specifics.

[Hammersmith]

Okay, found the info. The NCAA uses a rolling six-year period to distribute money. Each appearance counts for one unit and each win counts for another. So, if a team wins their first round game but loses in the second, they've earned two units for their conference for that year. No member of the Mid-Con has won their first round game for the previous six years, so the Mid-Con has earned six units; one for each appearance. Each conference is then allowed to distribute the money as they see fit. Last year, the Mid-Con recieved 6 units worth $1,061,184 in total. In contrast, the Big East earned 84 units over the last six years and was paid $14,856,576. As you can see, each at-large bid is worth in excess of $1M over six years.

I haven't been able to find out how the Mid-Con distributes its share of the money. I find it hard to believe that NDSU will recieve a full share its first year in the conference. I wouldn't be suprised if NDSU recieved one share while a school that had been in the Mid-Con for six years or more would recieve 6 shares. That's only a guess, though.

Here are some of the local conferences and their units:
Mid-Con: 6
Big Sky: 7
Horizon: 13
MAC: 11
WAC: 17
MVC: 24
Big Ten: 74

[99Bison]

Hammersmith... the compliance officer.

[southpaw]

NDSU and SDSU would have been invited to the Mid Con. *The other two would have been left in the BB scheduling alliance. *All would be in the GWFC with the Great Land Grants seemingly headed for the Gateway. *

so explain to me the benefit had UND moved up when ndsu did? they'd be stuck without a conference (except for football).

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

The benefit would be this: if the Fighting Fire Trucks had started the transition when NDSU and SDSU did, they would have had two partners to help them with scheduling and they would have been in the GWFC for football. *As it stands right now, UND has said that it is going to make the D-I move, but USD has not, leaving open the possibility of UND having to wander the independent waste land with no help of any sort. *By the time they are playing full D-I schedules, the SU's will be in a conference and if USD doesn't make the move the GWFC will fold even with UND due to lack of membership (4 teams). *Now, maybe they would have ended up spending a couple years as a true independent anyway, but at least they would be almost done with the transition and be an attractive option for a conference.

[broke_back_mnt]

I dont think there is any benefit for them moving now. *Nobody knows what would have happened, but we did get the invite. *If the NCC had move en mass as we suggested, and und led the fight against, we would all be in the new DI conference. *As it is now good luck to them.

On the Division 1 issue und has been a friend and allie to no one. *They haven't even been able to do whats best for themselves, burning all bridges and turning on those they aligned with in the NCC. *I hope USD doesn't invest too heavily in their relationship with them.

If their only strategic goal had NOT been to screw NDSU maybe their tactical moves would have made more sense. *

This is a major consideration when it comes to NDSU scheduling and voting on new conference members.

[IowaBisonToo]

I know UND thinks it's the right time to move up and are thinking that they may be an option for the Gateway/Mid-Con while others are thinking their best shot is at the Big Sky because of their shopping channel. One of the things UND is hoping for when it comes to the Big Sky is that U of British Columbia makes the jump to DI, too, allowing UND to partner with them.

The D-line coach at U of Calgary (which is only his part-time job) is currently visiting our company on business. We started talking about this at length and he stated that UND better not hold their breath as UBC is hardly in a position to move to DI in his eyes. This would make UND look a lot less atractive to the BSC if this is what UND was/is counting on.

In either case, UND may be in for a long, hard road in the independent waste-land IF they actually move.

[Bison_Dan]

I know UND thinks it's the right time to move up and are thinking that they may be an option for the Gateway/Mid-Con while others are thinking their best shot is at the Big Sky because of their shopping channel. *One of the things UND is hoping for when it comes to the Big Sky is that U of British Columbia makes the jump to DI, too, allowing UND to partner with them.

The D-line coach at U of Calgary (which is only his part-time job) is currently visiting our company on business. *We started talking about this at length and he stated that UND better not hold their breath as UBC is hardly in a position to move to DI in his eyes. *This would make UND look a lot less atractive to the BSC if this is what UND was/is counting on.

In either case, UND may be in for a long, hard road in the independent waste-land IF they actually move.

I hope star2city doesn't see this - I doubt his heart could take it. ;)

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

I think UND is going to be totally screwed if they decide to go to a D-I classification. USD, in my opinion, is not going to decide to go D-I and even if they do, like some other posters have said they probably aren't going to look to UND for much support. That would leave them totally on their own in the independent waste land. Not a good situation if that is what materializes.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Like we did, UND will just have to move up and wait and see where the movement is in the conference picture........

The whole conference thing is so fluid that what may be apparent now, will likely change dramatically in 3 or 4 years.......

[IowaBisonToo]

Like we did, UND will just have to move up and wait and see where the movement is in the conference picture........

The whole conference thing is so fluid that what may be apparent now, will likely change dramatically in 3 or 4 years.......
+++++++++++++++

People can guess all they want but, until they have moved up and gone through a few years as an independant, they're not going to know what conference they're going to be in.

[southpaw]

I know UND thinks it's the right time to move up and are thinking that they may be an option for the Gateway/Mid-Con while others are thinking their best shot is at the Big Sky because of their shopping channel. *One of the things UND is hoping for when it comes to the Big Sky is that U of British Columbia makes the jump to DI, too, allowing UND to partner with them.

The D-line coach at U of Calgary (which is only his part-time job) is currently visiting our company on business. *We started talking about this at length and he stated that UND better not hold their breath as UBC is hardly in a position to move to DI in his eyes. *This would make UND look a lot less atractive to the BSC if this is what UND was/is counting on.

In either case, UND may be in for a long, hard road in the independent waste-land IF they actually move.

apparently one or two posters on a message board constitute "und." i highly doubt people outside of a few fans are "holding their breath" that ubc will join the ncaa and und will get to partner with them. don't take what some fans say as representative as the university.

[cabis]

I know UND thinks it's the right time to move up and are thinking that they may be an option for the Gateway/Mid-Con while others are thinking their best shot is at the Big Sky because of their shopping channel. *One of the things UND is hoping for when it comes to the Big Sky is that U of British Columbia makes the jump to DI, too, allowing UND to partner with them.
The D-line coach at U of Calgary (which is only his part-time job) is currently visiting our company on business. *We started talking about this at length and he stated that UND better not hold their breath as UBC is hardly in a position to move to DI in his eyes. *This would make UND look a lot less atractive to the BSC if this is what UND was/is counting on.

In either case, UND may be in for a long, hard road in the independent waste-land IF they actually move.
Not sure where this comes from but that is one of the strangest ideas I have ever heard. For those that are not aware UBC is in Vancouver. Vancouver is give or take 1800 miles from Grand Forks. UBC is the second or third ranked University in Canada, has +/- 60,000 students in a metro area of about 3.5 million people.
While their negotiations with the NCAA are in the early stages and no disrespect to UND, I am pretty sure UBC's ultimate goal is more the Pac-10 and the Washingtons than the Big Sky and some small school 1800 miles away.

[sambini]

I agree Wyoming ++++

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

Agreed.

[max_cool]

I know UND thinks it's the right time to move up and are thinking that they may be an option for the Gateway/Mid-Con while others are thinking their best shot is at the Big Sky because of their shopping channel. One of the things UND is hoping for when it comes to the Big Sky is that U of British Columbia makes the jump to DI, too, allowing UND to partner with them.
The D-line coach at U of Calgary (which is only his part-time job) is currently visiting our company on business. We started talking about this at length and he stated that UND better not hold their breath as UBC is hardly in a position to move to DI in his eyes. This would make UND look a lot less atractive to the BSC if this is what UND was/is counting on.

In either case, UND may be in for a long, hard road in the independent waste-land IF they actually move.
Not sure where this comes from but that is one of the strangest ideas I have ever heard. For those that are not aware UBC is in Vancouver. Vancouver is give or take 1800 miles from Grand Forks. UBC is the second or third ranked University in Canada, has +/- 60,000 students in a metro area of about 3.5 million people.

While their negotiations with the NCAA are in the early stages and no disrespect to UND, I am pretty sure UBC's ultimate goal is more the Pac-10 and the Washingtons than the Big Sky and some small school 1800 miles away.
however, seeing as schools like UNLV, Utah, and Boise St. can't crack the Pac 10 I don't see UBC making any noise whatsoever. WAC maybe...

[IowaBisonToo]

I know UND thinks it's the right time to move up and are thinking that they may be an option for the Gateway/Mid-Con while others are thinking their best shot is at the Big Sky because of their shopping channel. *One of the things UND is hoping for when it comes to the Big Sky is that U of British Columbia makes the jump to DI, too, allowing UND to partner with them.
The D-line coach at U of Calgary (which is only his part-time job) is currently visiting our company on business. *We started talking about this at length and he stated that UND better not hold their breath as UBC is hardly in a position to move to DI in his eyes. *This would make UND look a lot less atractive to the BSC if this is what UND was/is counting on.

In either case, UND may be in for a long, hard road in the independent waste-land IF they actually move.
Not sure where this comes from but that is one of the strangest ideas I have ever heard. For those that are not aware UBC is in Vancouver. Vancouver is give or take 1800 miles from Grand Forks. UBC is the second or third ranked University in Canada, has +/- 60,000 students in a metro area of about 3.5 million people.
While their negotiations with the NCAA are in the early stages and no disrespect to UND, I am pretty sure UBC's ultimate goal is more the Pac-10 and the Washingtons than the Big Sky and some small school 1800 miles away.
These are just some things I've seen fans "proposing" over on the "other" site. ::) *According to this business aquaintance, they are about the class of an NAIA school (he should know, he played at Carroll College). *I have no specific idea of what they are planning but, according to him, they are a third rate school that just might be looking to get their foot into the NCAA in whatever way they can. *To break into the PAC-10 or the WAC might be a stretch for them to start with so why not partner with another "hockey school" and find a mutual place to go in DI. IMHO, it will be a long time before you see a Canadian college/university making a splash in the NCAA.

[2006gwfcchamps]

I would depend on how good UBC's academics are.

Right now there are 2 Canadian schools in the AAU (McGill and U Toronto).

If UBC has AAU level academics, I could see the PAC 10 considering them as they fit the profile of the PAC's public schools. They also would bring a market that no other conference would be able to claim.

[IowaBison]

yeah because Arizona State has AAU level academics...............

[2006gwfcchamps]

yeah because Arizona State has AAU level academics...............

I believe at the time the U of AZ of was being accepted (UA is in the AAU) they requested that ASU also be accepted as a travel partner.

They are not in the AAU but Carnegie gives them the highest research ranking (very high) and they have several top rated programs in the science/engineering areas IIRC.

As well, U of WA, U of OR, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC are all in the AAU. I'm pretty sure it's something that's important to them.

[IowaBison]

I believe at the time the U of AZ of was being accepted (UA is in the AAU) they requested that ASU also be accepted as a travel partner.


what in the hell are you talking about?

[2006gwfcchamps]

I believe at the time the U of AZ of was being accepted (UA is in the AAU) they requested that ASU also be accepted as a travel partner.


what in the hell are you talking about?

I thought we were talking about the PAC 10 when they accepted UA and ASU in 1978?

[Mr._Bill]

I don't know why many of you say "If und/usd move up". It is a done deal folks. Both of them are at the point of no return. They, like the rest of us, have made their declaration and there is no return.

Those of you who are hoping they crawl back to DII need a reality check. Being in D1 and being successful in D1 are two different things however. We'll see if they land on their feet. Eventually, like we did, they will find a conference.

[TransAmBison]

Have the Fire Trucks actually declared their exploratory year yet? I thought they just offered a promise ring? The engagement is still pending ;)

[THEsocalledfan]

Have the Fire Trucks actually declared their exploratory year yet? *I thought they just offered a promise ring? *The engagement is still pending ;)

Why? Were you hoping to pop the question?

[TransAmBison]

Nice new tag lines...one of them makes me think of San Juan... :) Those were the days...

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

I'm confused on this point as well. I don't think they have actually declared yet, only said that they were going to declare (next year I believe).

[Hammersmith]

I'm confused on this point as well. *I don't think they have actually declared yet, only said that they were going to declare (next year I believe).
I think it's because some of us feel they've lost their safety net with the demise of the NCC. When we, SDSU and UNC moved, we could've rejoined the NCC if something terrible would've happened. By the time UND and USD have to make the final decision in the summer of 2008, UNO will already be in the MIAC, Augie (and maybe SCSU & MSU) will be in the NSIC, and Crookston will either be DIII or NAIA. Either in DI or in DII, UND and USD won't have a conference home.

[sambini]

They have declared?

[SDbison]

Have the Fire Trucks actually declared their exploratory year yet? *I thought they just offered a promise ring? *The engagement is still pending ;)

I thought the pre-nup said no marriage unless a conference home was first established?

[IowaBisonToo]

Have the Fire Trucks actually declared their exploratory year yet? *I thought they just offered a promise ring? *The engagement is still pending ;)

I thought the pre-nup said no marriage unless a conference home was first established?
That was the other side of Kuppy's face talking. :)

[Gully]

I think they just declared the fact that they might declare next year.

[Bisonguy]

They have to declare before Sept. 1, 2007, if they want the 2007/2008 season to be their exploratory year.

[Hammersmith]

They have to declare before Sept. 1, 2007, if they want the 2007/2008 season to be their exploratory year.
Isn't it June 1, 2007? I thought that's what all the fuss was about this spring.

[Bisonguy]

They have to declare before Sept. 1, 2007, if they want the 2007/2008 season to be their exploratory year.
Isn't it June 1, 2007? I thought that's what all the fuss was about this spring.


Hold on while I look it up. I know it has changed twice since the Dec. 31st deadline that NDSU had.

[Bisonguy]

They have to declare before Sept. 1, 2007, if they want the 2007/2008 season to be their exploratory year.
Isn't it June 1, 2007? I thought that's what all the fuss was about this spring.


Hold on while I look it up. I know it has changed twice since the Dec. 31st deadline that NDSU had.




Looks like it is June 1-


In addition, the institution must submit a formal confirmation of its intent to
become an active Division I member and present a basic strategic plan that addresses the Division I phi-
losophy statement (see Bylaw 20.9) and certification operating principles (see Bylaw 22.2) not later than
June 1. (Revised: 5/8/06)

Sept. 1 must have been the intermediate deadline.

[Trimmy]

Plus, to complicate things, didn't they ask for an extension of some sort last summer?

[Hammersmith]

Plus, to complicate things, didn't they ask for an extension of some sort last summer?
Yeah, they didn't keep up with the changes and scheduled their self-evaluation team to submit its report a couple of days before the NCAA deadline. Whoops. To be somewhat fair, the new DI manual hadn't come out yet and the NCAA forgot to update their website with the change. Because of that, the NCAA gave UND until July 1 to submit the paperwork. I don't know why UND bothered getting the extension since they had no intention of starting the process this year anyway. In my opinion, that event confirms that UND's decision to move was fairly spur-of-the-moment, because in a well thought out plan, the AD would've had plenty of time to make connections within the NCAA offices and get all the latest changes and potential changes.

[Jeffdaryl3rd]

So while UND hasn't officially declared, are we at a consensus that they will join USD and declare officially by June. Sounds like that's what we have going on.