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NDSUstudent
01-14-2007, 09:06 PM
SDSU beats Minnesota on a last second shot and by last second I mean the SDSU player shot the ball at the last possible instant before the light came on behind the hoop. The refs ruled it good right away and then looked at it for a short time and it looked like the refs ruled it to Minnesota the crowd erupted and FSN took the two points away. But then they continued to review the play and finally gave SDSU the two points and the win. Congrats to the Jacks on getting a win in the barn.

Bison_Dan
01-14-2007, 09:25 PM
SDSU beats Minnesota on a last second shot and by last second I mean the SDSU player shot the ball at the last possible instant before the light came on behind the hoop. The refs ruled it good right away and then looked at it for a short time and it looked like the refs ruled it to Minnesota the crowd erupted and FSN took the two points away. But then they continued to review the play and finally gave SDSU the two points and the win. Congrats to the Jacks on getting a win in the barn.

I saw the ending - It was real close. The clock said 00.0 and the ball was still in her hand, but the backboard light wasn't on. I'm betting that the UofM coach will be having a talk with someone.

kchats
01-14-2007, 09:47 PM
So if the Bison women had played better since the game with Minnesota the NDSU vs. SDSU game might be a tighter afair. NDSU dominated Minnesota but had them at the BSA.

JackJD
01-14-2007, 10:00 PM
I watched the whole game and it's important for the Minnesota coach to ask the guy running the clock the following:

How come the game went on for 20-25 second with about 11:30 to play...BUT THE GAME CLOCK WASN'T RUNNING? *The refs, after discovering the problem, did nothing. *With under a minute to go and down to about 3.5 seconds, SDSU was up. And then, ask about the following: With 3.4 seconds on the clock, MN shot and made two free throws, going up by one, 58-57. *So, with those same 3.4 seconds remaining, SDSU is in-bounding the ball under the MN basket. *SDSU throws the ball half court to the sideline ...an SDSU player and MN player jump for it and it's tipped out. *Now, think about that. *The clock shouldn't start until the ball is touched. *When it was touched, it was immediately tipped out by MN. *So, SDSU's ball now from the sideline at half court (well, executed play, I might add). *BUT, the game clock was now down to 2.5 seconds. *So, SDSU getting the home-job even more by the clock official. *How did 1.1 seconds expire on that play?

Maybe the MN coach doesn't want to know.

With 2.5 seconds, we toss it in, looks like we have a clear shot but Verdigan dribbles in and then passes to Maria Boever under the basket. *She puts it up and in. *VERY close call on when the ball left her fingers but in slow motion, clear the ball was enroute, out of her fingers, as the light around the rim of the backboard lit up. *SDSU wins.

Had to fight a spirited Gopher team, home-court crowd and the toughest guy in Williams Arena today: the guy running the clock.

JackJD
01-14-2007, 11:11 PM
Here's a link to the official MN site which has video of the last 30 seconds and shows the refs deliberating. Ask yourself how 1.1 seconds came off the clock, from 3.5 to 2.4 on the inbounds pass that was then tipped out? The call was correct.

I saw a post-game interview on FSN...about 20 minutes after the game...interview of a Star-Tribune reporter who apparently talked to the refs. No question in the ref's minds after review.

http://www.gophersports.com/mediaPlayer/video.dbml?DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=38666&SPID=3303&DB_OE M_ID=8400&CLIP_ID=53454&CLIP_FILE_ID=58248&CONTENT _TYPE=ONDEMAND

imabison
01-15-2007, 04:52 AM
Here's a link to the official MN site which has video of the last 30 seconds and shows the refs deliberating. Ask yourself how 1.1 seconds came off the clock, from 3.5 to 2.4 on the inbounds pass that was then tipped out? The call was correct.

I saw a post-game interview on FSN...about 20 minutes after the game...interview of a Star-Tribune reporter who apparently talked to the refs. No question in the ref's minds after review.

http://www.gophersports.com/mediaPlayer/video.dbml?DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=38666&SPID=3303&DB_OE M_ID=8400&CLIP_ID=53454&CLIP_FILE_ID=58248&CONTENT _TYPE=ONDEMAND



WDAY showed a shot from the court level, and to me it clearly looked like the ball was out of the hand before the clock expired. They showed it a couple times.

Good with for the Jacks. Xdsu rule the Gohpers this year.

sambini
01-15-2007, 05:19 AM
Congrats to the JACKS +++

TransAmBison
01-15-2007, 12:28 PM
Great job Jacks!!!!

Bison_Dan
01-15-2007, 12:35 PM
Here's a link to the official MN site which has video of the last 30 seconds and shows the refs deliberating. *Ask yourself how 1.1 seconds came off the clock, from 3.5 to 2.4 on the inbounds pass that was then tipped out? *The call was correct.

I saw a post-game interview on FSN...about 20 minutes after the game...interview of a Star-Tribune reporter who apparently talked to the refs. *No question in the ref's minds after review.

http://www.gophersports.com/mediaPlayer/video.dbml?DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=38666&SPID=3303&DB_OE M_ID=8400&CLIP_ID=53454&CLIP_FILE_ID=58248&CONTENT _TYPE=ONDEMAND



THe clock was 00.0 and the ball was still in her hand, but the scoreboard light wasn't on. I guess they go by the scoreboard light.

imabison
01-15-2007, 01:33 PM
Here's a link to the official MN site which has video of the last 30 seconds and shows the refs deliberating. *Ask yourself how 1.1 seconds came off the clock, from 3.5 to 2.4 on the inbounds pass that was then tipped out? *The call was correct.

I saw a post-game interview on FSN...about 20 minutes after the game...interview of a Star-Tribune reporter who apparently talked to the refs. *No question in the ref's minds after review.

http://www.gophersports.com/mediaPlayer/video.dbml?DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=38666&SPID=3303&DB_OE M_ID=8400&CLIP_ID=53454&CLIP_FILE_ID=58248&CONTENT _TYPE=ONDEMAND



Steve Hallstrom made the comment the the officials took 10 minutes before making the decision that SDSU had won, and they showed a clip for of a bit of shoving action between the players during the handshakes.





THe clock was 00.0 and the ball was still in her hand, but the scoreboard light wasn't on. *I guess they go by the scoreboard light.

89rabbit
01-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Bottom line had the officials done a better job of clock management the game would have been over before the Gophers shoot free throws to take the lead (the phantom 30 + seconds when the clock didn’t run). So for those Minnesota fans who want to argue that the Ref. got it wrong I agree. SDSU should have won that game earlier then we did.


Go State! :)

Bisonguy
01-15-2007, 09:56 PM
Anybody see the flying shoulder charge during the team handshakes?


Classy!!!

89rabbit
01-15-2007, 10:20 PM
Anybody see the flying shoulder charge during the team handshakes?


Classy!!!

Watching it in real time and not over and over again, I thought that it was unintentional, although I understand why the gopher player reacted the way she did. *

By the way didn't you just break rule # 8 of Tony's Ten Smack Suggestions? *A moderator should know better. *;) ;D


The Ten Smack Suggestons

1. Thou shall not gossip.

2. Thou shall take smack from other fans in good humor. Flying off the handle will not be tolerated.

3. Thou shall leave people's personal lives to themselves even if they are public figures.

4. Thou are not potty-mouthed, paste-eating pre-teens. Do not act post like you are one.

5. Thou shall be clever. If your post is not, it may end up having a short-shelf life.

6. Thou shall not pollute other boards with smack.

7. Thou shall spell names right and not play fast and loose with the truth.

8. Thou shall not accuse another program, school, player, or coach of not having class.

9. Thou shall not be smirky or backhanded in your smack and try to sneak it into the main boards.

10. Bison fans who post on this board will do so in a spirit of good sportsmanship.

Be sure to call me on it when I ignore these suggestions in the future.


Go State! *:)

Bisonguy
01-15-2007, 10:59 PM
Anybody see the flying shoulder charge during the team handshakes?


Classy!!!

Watching it in real time and not over and over again, I thought that it was unintentional, although I understand why the gopher player reacted the way she did. *

By the way didn't you just break rule # 8 of Tony's Ten Smack Suggestions? *A moderator should know better. *;) ;D


The Ten Smack Suggestons

1. Thou shall not gossip.

2. Thou shall take smack from other fans in good humor. Flying off the handle will not be tolerated.

3. Thou shall leave people's personal lives to themselves even if they are public figures.

4. Thou are not potty-mouthed, paste-eating pre-teens. Do not act post like you are one.

5. Thou shall be clever. If your post is not, it may end up having a short-shelf life.

6. Thou shall not pollute other boards with smack.

7. Thou shall spell names right and not play fast and loose with the truth.

8. Thou shall not accuse another program, school, player, or coach of not having class.

9. Thou shall not be smirky or backhanded in your smack and try to sneak it into the main boards.

10. Bison fans who post on this board will do so in a spirit of good sportsmanship.

Be sure to call me on it when I ignore these suggestions in the future.


Go State! *:)


It wasn't smack, nor intended to be. It was an observation.

Please notice the forum we're in.


If you think it was an accident, that's your observation.

89rabbit
01-15-2007, 11:09 PM
Anybody see the flying shoulder charge during the team handshakes?


Classy!!!

Watching it in real time and not over and over again, I thought that it was unintentional, although I understand why the gopher player reacted the way she did. *

By the way didn't you just break rule # 8 of Tony's Ten Smack Suggestions? *A moderator should know better. *;) ;D


The Ten Smack Suggestons

1. Thou shall not gossip.

2. Thou shall take smack from other fans in good humor. Flying off the handle will not be tolerated.

3. Thou shall leave people's personal lives to themselves even if they are public figures.

4. Thou are not potty-mouthed, paste-eating pre-teens. Do not act post like you are one.

5. Thou shall be clever. If your post is not, it may end up having a short-shelf life.

6. Thou shall not pollute other boards with smack.

7. Thou shall spell names right and not play fast and loose with the truth.

8. Thou shall not accuse another program, school, player, or coach of not having class.

9. Thou shall not be smirky or backhanded in your smack and try to sneak it into the main boards.

10. Bison fans who post on this board will do so in a spirit of good sportsmanship.

Be sure to call me on it when I ignore these suggestions in the future.


Go State! *:)


It wasn't smack, nor intended to be. It was an observation.

Please notice the forum we're in.


If you think it was an accident, that's your observation.

Easy big fella, just having a little fun, no need to get your undies in a knot. *Sorry. :(

Bisonguy
01-15-2007, 11:19 PM
Sorry, undies unknotted. 8-)

Wacker_in_the_Hall
01-16-2007, 12:35 AM
Here's a link to the official MN site which has video of the last 30 seconds and shows the refs deliberating. *Ask yourself how 1.1 seconds came off the clock, from 3.5 to 2.4 on the inbounds pass that was then tipped out? *The call was correct.

I saw a post-game interview on FSN...about 20 minutes after the game...interview of a Star-Tribune reporter who apparently talked to the refs. *No question in the ref's minds after review.

http://www.gophersports.com/mediaPlayer/video.dbml?DB_MENU_ID=&SPSID=38666&SPID=3303&DB_OE M_ID=8400&CLIP_ID=53454&CLIP_FILE_ID=58248&CONTENT _TYPE=ONDEMAND




JackJD---what is your explantion for Vogel's (obviously purposeful shoulder into Kelly Roysland) at the end of the game.

Don't give me this heat of the battle crap---I saw it ----It was BUSH LEAGUE

Wacker_in_the_Hall
01-16-2007, 12:38 AM
[quote author=Bisonguy link=1168812372/0#11 date=1168901784]Anybody see the flying shoulder charge during the team handshakes?


Classy!!!

Watching it in real time and not over and over again, I thought that it was unintentional, although I understand why the gopher player reacted the way she did. *

By the way didn't you just break rule # 8 of Tony's Ten Smack Suggestions? *A moderator should know better. *;) ;D


Come on Unintentional?????? *if you hit someone like that unintentionally , you stop say sorry or acknowledge your error---Vogel did not---it was cheap..took away from *the win in my eyes

JackJD
01-16-2007, 04:43 AM
JackJD---what is your explantion for Vogel's (obviously purposeful shoulder into Kelly Roysland) at the end of the game. *

Don't give me this heat of the battle crap---I saw it ----It was BUSH LEAGUE[/quote]

Wacker: *I didn't realize I was required to explain play on the court but as long as you asked, I recommend you watch the clip available on the UofMN's website, (link given in previous post). *I think its purely an unintentional bump. *Now, if you're convinced it was an intentional act and you want me to explain, then the best I can offer is the following: *(Starting point...you need to understand I love college basketball but was not a player myself and claim no expertise other than eating popcorn and watching a game... I was a run-and-turn-left athlete -- track -- and a college teammate and to-this-day friend of your head track coach, Lars) If that was an intentional act, then the best explanation I can give is an observation: *Sometimes great athletes, pumped up with what you call the heat of the battle crap, get a little exhuberant. *I have seen the same behavior by some great NDSU players and players on many other teams. I'm comfortable concluding it was unintentional because I know what kind of kid Vogel is. *

D
01-16-2007, 05:00 AM
No chance that was unintentional. *If it was unintentional, there would have been some kind of apology on the spot, or at least an acknowledgement that it happened on Vogel's past. *You don't do something like that unintentionally and put that much force into it and then claim you don't remember it after the game, even though it held up the handshake line for a few seconds and was clear as day. *Bush league. She may have a future as a fullback. * *

JackJD
01-16-2007, 05:01 AM
One additional comment, Wacker: If you think it was intentional, then it's unlikely I can change your mind. I know this: Minnesota's coach was 27-2 at Williams Arena against non-conference opponents. Now she's 27-3. Her only losses are to LSU a year or two ago when LSU was then-rated #1; a loss this year to Middle-Tennessee State (Jacks beat Middle TN earlier this year) and now SDSU. I'm enjoying the win and glad we join NDSU in victories over the Gophers. I think the NDSU / SDSU games will be well attended and they'll be real battles with home-court advantage maybe being the difference in both Fargo and Brookings.

mikelsch
01-16-2007, 03:26 PM
I think the Bison women are in trouble against SDSU for both games. The Jacks look more athletic, balanced, and talented. Interesting how these 2 teams have changed in the past 2 years.

Wacker_in_the_Hall
01-16-2007, 04:15 PM
[quote author=JackJD link=1168812372/15#20 date=1168927293]One additional comment, Wacker: *If you think it was intentional, then it's unlikely I can change your mind. *I know this: Minnesota's coach was 27-2 at Williams Arena against non-conference opponents. *Now she's 27-3. *Her only losses are to LSU a year or two ago when LSU was then-rated #1; a loss this year to Middle-Tennessee State (Jacks beat Middle TN earlier this year) and now SDSU. *I'm enjoying the win and glad we join NDSU in victories over the Gophers. *I think the NDSU / SDSU games will be well attended and they'll be real battles with home-court advantage maybe being the difference in both Fargo and Brookings. *



I hold no ill will against SDSU at all---merely an observation ( that I think is correct). I have a son attending SDSU and Lars is a very good friend of mine. I was just stating what I saw was an obvious shoulder-lunge something.... It seems strange that not many people are talking about it. At any rate that was a big win for the Jacks. I hope we will be able to give the Jacks a good game, from what I saw Sunday, we will be the underdogs.

daherd
01-16-2007, 06:28 PM
IMO it was preety clear that she did it on purpose. Wouldn't you be upset if you got put on lockdown most of the day also. SDSU won but I would imagine that Vogel wanted to be a little bit more productive then she was. Does anyone else think that Vogel might just have a grudge against Roysland?

sambini
01-17-2007, 02:10 AM
It was cheap and its over with. Congrats to the Jacks they will be heavy favorites in both games.

JackJD
01-17-2007, 02:51 AM
IMO it was preety clear that she did it on purpose. Wouldn't you be upset if you got put on lockdown most of the day also. SDSU won but I would imagine that Vogel wanted to be a little bit more productive then she was. Does anyone else think that Vogel might just have a grudge against Roysland?

Vogel also turned an ankle in the first half .... nothing serious.

insane_ponderer
01-18-2007, 07:27 PM
Looks like the refs got it wrong after all.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=2734847

89rabbit
01-19-2007, 01:31 AM
Maybe not.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070118/SPORTS/701180351/1002

Review says game-winning shot was invalid
Jacks' win won't be overturned, but officials have been reprimanded

By Terry Vandrovec
tvandrovec@argusleader.com
Published: January 18, 2007

The outcome of the game will not be reversed, but a review by the Women's Basketball Officiating Consortium has determined that officials misapplied NCAA rules in deciding to count the final shot in South Dakota State's 59-58 victory at Minnesota on Sunday.

Coordinator of officials Patty Broderick said Maria Boever's layup - a shot that appeared to have come after the game clock reached 0.0, but before the red LED lights attached to the backboard lit up - should not have counted because the clock is the determining factor.

The officials - John Morningstar, Ron Applegate and Amy Bonner - determined that the shot was good at the time it happened. They then reviewed the play on a courtside monitor, allowing Jackrabbits coach Aaron Johnston access to the replay before ultimately allowing the shot.

That was another miscue by the officials, according to Broderick.

"They didn't procedurally handle the review of the video properly," she said. "Obviously coaches aren't supposed to be around. It was one mistake after another. They got caught up in the emotion of it." . . .

For their misunderstanding of the rules, the officials have been privately reprimanded, said Broderick. Possible disciplinary actions range from a written or verbal censure to a suspension.

"When they reviewed the monitor, they looked for the red light to see if the ball was out of her hands - but it's 'triple zeroes' that determine whether a shot should count or not," explained Broderick, adding that the outcome of a game cannot be overturned once the officials leave the court. "They misapplied the NCAA rule, so we have to level disciplinary action at the three officials."

However, "triple zero" can mean different things depending on where the decimal point is placed.

In the 2007 NCAA basketball rule book, Part B of Rule 5, Section 7, Article 2 states: "In games with a 10th of a second game clock and where an official courtside monitor is used, the reading of 0.00 on the game clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred before or after the expiration of time in any period."

There is a difference between 0.0 - as the clock at Williams Arena read - and 0.00.

The NCAA women's basketball office did not return a call seeking comment. Broderick said that beginning this season, each school is required to have a clock that counts 10ths of a second.

It's her understanding, then, that the game ends at 0.0. When asked about the contradictory wording within the NCAA rule, she said, "I don't even know if that's ever been brought to their attention."

That lack of clarity is a problem, according to SDSU's coach. . . . (read more)



Go State! :)

TriCollegeBison
01-21-2007, 07:52 AM
I suppose you could always use an asterik *. *That usually solves everything. *;) Good games, Jacks and Bison!