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Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 07:38 AM
When NDSU decided to move to DI, some people/groups attacked us by saying student fees were going to be raised unfairly. Five years later, student activity fees are virtually unchanged(+$12/year compared to 2004). Now another school is moving up and this is their plan:


UND: Students will help pay for D-I (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=156394&section=sports)


My, how things change.


FYI: Current Student Activity Fees (full year)
NDSU: $298.00 (Activity Fee, Career Services, Library Fee)
UND: $494.28 (University Fee, Student Activity Fee, SAF Project, Student Health - Not Wellness Center)

Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 08:20 AM
In the spirit of full disclosure, I have to say that the activity fee at NDSU has more than doubled since 1999. However, most of that increase seems to have happened prior to the DI move. I don't have the year-by-year breakdown, but the activity fee was $5.00/credit hour in 99-00, $8.00/credit hour in 01-02, $10.00/credit hour in 04-05, and $10.50/credit hour today.

Tatanka
02-13-2007, 01:28 PM
:-?


:-X

Bison_Dan
02-13-2007, 02:04 PM
Is there really 200.00 per student per year difference? If we raised ours 200.00 it would generate 2 million dollars!

RedRiver
02-13-2007, 03:02 PM
So what is the final answer? Did NDSU raise their student fees to specifically pay for the DI transition? I wonder if SDSU did any type of student fee increase?

Bison_Dan
02-13-2007, 03:08 PM
So what is the final answer? *Did NDSU raise their student fees to specifically pay for the DI transition? *I wonder if SDSU did any type of student fee increase? *

the SD Leg. passed a law that you couldn't increase student activity fees for the DI move.

tony
02-13-2007, 04:07 PM
So what is the final answer? *Did NDSU raise their student fees to specifically pay for the DI transition? *I wonder if SDSU did any type of student fee increase? *

Nope, NDSU didn't raise student fees to pay for DI. At most, the activity fee has gone up by 2.50 per credit hour since NDSU started looking at DI. I tried to find out when and why activity fees were raised but my Googling only turned up that NDSU's student senate sends 35% of the activity fee money to the athletic department.

As for the rest of it, I think NDSU's and UND's activity fees are quite comparable - I think NDSU is just below $1000/year and UND is just over $1000/year. It sounds like UND is going to double their activity fees and send the full amount to the athletic department... but even then, that's a 10 to 20% increase over their current fees (which include activity fees, ConnectND, and all that).

http://www.ndus.nodak.edu/students/educational-costs/details.asp?id=215

Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 05:26 PM
Tony, you're both right and wrong(no offense, sir - please don't ban me! :) :) ;) )

The total student fees are comparable, but the activity fees are already almost double at UND. It's NDSU's higher technology, wellness and student union fees that bring NDSU's total fees close to UND's. My numbers were even a little generous, since I included NDSU's library fee and career services fee in my calculation. UND does not provide a complete breakdown of their fee, so I chose to err on the side of caution in case those types of services are included in the UND fee. Strictly speaking, the current comparison is $10.50/credit hour vs. $20.60/credit hour.


If anyone wants the entire breakdown per semester(full time)...

FeeNDSUUND
Activity Fee$126.00$247.14
Technology Fee$82.50$50.00
Wellness Fee$122.00$95.00
ConnectND Fee$81.00$81.00
Union Bond$39.00$14.50
ND Student Assoc$0.36$0.36
Career Services$13.00
NA
Library Fee$10.00
NA
McCannel Hall Bond
NA$15.00
Totals$473.86$503.00

insane_ponderer
02-13-2007, 05:59 PM
The money generated from the student fee is budgeted every year by the student senate. It is different from year to year but there is a Big 7 (I believe) which are the likes of the athletic dept., memorial union, spectrum, etc. that have a set rate that they expect per year (some percentage).

i don't remember all the little details, but if you were really curious about those sorts of things, contacting the NDSU student finance commissioner (currently Adam Montgomery) would be a good idea.

Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 07:15 PM
Yeah, sometime around 2000 there was a fundamental change in how money was allocated. Prior to that, every organization was treated the same and funds were allocated on a yearly basis. This put several of the big organizations like athletics, the Spectrum, fine arts and the union at the mercy of a group of student that sometime had agendas. There were a few abuses over the years that created the need for a change. I remember when a spat between the Spectrum and student government caused SG to zero out the Spectrum's budget for the following year. The same thing also happened to the Little Country Theatre a different year. Thankfully, the NDSU president has final authority over the budget and both those decisions were reversed. Still, the uncertainty created problems every year.

Eventually, a group of student senators, finance commissioners and NDSU staff came up with a solution. Every year, a fixed portion of the activity fee pool(by percentage) is set aside for the Big 7(?). Each of the 7 gets a percentage of that amount. Student government can only make limited changes to these percentages(something like 2% per year) so one group of senators cannot seriously hurt any of the big programs. The remaining monies are disbursed the old way. Joy Erickson(bookkeeper/business manager of the Dept. of Fine Arts and wife of former comp-sci professor Bruce) was one of the architects of the plan, I believe.

Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 07:48 PM
So what is the final answer? *Did NDSU raise their student fees to specifically pay for the DI transition? *I wonder if SDSU did any type of student fee increase? *

the SD Leg. passed a law that you couldn't increase student activity fees for the DI move.
That probably wasn't a bad idea:

NDSU: $126.00
UND: $247.14
SDSU: $352.00
USD: $367.20

Ouch.

roadwarrior
02-13-2007, 10:25 PM
Wasn't most of the increase in fees at NDSU recently to pay for the Memorial Union and Wellness Center additions? *(both were approved by student voting)

Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 10:46 PM
Yes and no. If you look at the breakdown above, you'll see that those fees are seperate from the activity fee. If you are asking whether the MU and WC fees caused the total student fee to rise, then the answer is yes. If you are asking if the MU and WC fees caused the activity fee to rise, then the answer is no.

tony
02-13-2007, 11:16 PM
Tony, you're both right and wrong(no offense, sir - please don't ban me! *:) :) ;) )


I can't ban you - who else is going to correct my mistakes.

Funny the Spectrum did an article on this just lately:

http://www.ndsuspectrum.com/news/Spring07/2_6_07_news_fees.html

Apparently, 35.62 percent of the activity gees goes to the athletic department but, unlike what posted before, that amounted to $910,310 this year and 30% goes to the Memorial Union.

Like Hammersmith, I can't help but marvel at the irony of it all. Almost every single thing the anti-DI-for-NDSU folks listed as a pitfall to going DI is coming to pass... except that instead of happening at NDSU, it's happening at UND, and for the extra twist, the very person who was most strident about the mistakes NDSU was sure to make are PUSHING for them to happen at UND (er, that would be President Kupchella of UND). Now the icing on the World Upside Down Cake will be when the Grand Forks Herald chimes in ala "We grudgingly think that UND students should shovel money to the athletic department because, as always, what is wrong at NDSU is right at UND."

Hammersmith
02-13-2007, 11:26 PM
Damn you, I was just about to post that 35.62% fact. You stole my thunder! <grumbles>

;D ;D ;)

Hammersmith
02-14-2007, 01:26 AM
While searching for some other information, I came across this fact: In 2002, when NDSU started looking into DI, the athletic department recieved $593,000 from the activity fee. Today that number is $910,310. Whether the larger fees were specifically for the DI move or not, it's clear the athletic department has benefited from them. BTW, adjusted for today's enrollment, the 2002 figure would come to about $690,000.

RedRiver
02-14-2007, 01:24 PM
Tony, you're both right and wrong(no offense, sir - please don't ban me! *:) :) ;) )


I can't ban you - who else is going to correct my mistakes.

Funny the Spectrum did an article on this just lately:

http://www.ndsuspectrum.com/news/Spring07/2_6_07_news_fees.html

Apparently, 35.62 percent of the activity gees goes to the athletic department but, unlike what posted before, that amounted to $910,310 this year and 30% goes to the Memorial Union.

Like Hammersmith, I can't help but marvel at the irony of it all. Almost every single thing the anti-DI-for-NDSU folks listed as a pitfall to going DI is coming to pass... except that instead of happening at NDSU, it's happening at UND, and for the extra twist, the very person who was most strident about the mistakes NDSU was sure to make are PUSHING for them to happen at UND (er, that would be President Kupchella of UND). Now the icing on the World Upside Down Cake will be when the Grand Forks Herald chimes in ala "We grudgingly think that UND students should shovel money to the athletic department because, as always, what is wrong at NDSU is right at UND."



Still, when you look at the numbers, NDSU's activity fee is almost 50% LESS than the total of UND's. The difference could be huge after they add on additional fees for the DI move.

IowaBison
02-14-2007, 01:43 PM
Note that the student activity fee has remained relatively constant in recent years. The increase in funding to the athletic department has resulted from an increase in the percentage of student activity funds used for that purpose.

(That's a pretty big difference from what UND is considering).

IowaBison
02-15-2007, 01:19 PM
Also, this is beyond hypocrisy.

Shouldn't the students get to decide before the fact if they want to provide additional funds for athletics? A number of schools have held votes in recent years. Nope, Kupchella simply makes the announcement (knowing that student funding will be significant part of those needed).

Bisonguy
02-16-2007, 02:09 AM
Also, this is beyond hypocrisy.

Shouldn't the students get to decide before the fact if they want to provide additional funds for athletics? *A number of schools have held votes in recent years. *Nope, Kupchella simply makes the announcement (knowing that student funding will be significant part of those needed). *


They've pretty much stated from the start that student fees could "help" pay for a move to DI.

IowaBison
02-16-2007, 04:13 PM
The rhetoric regarding a student fee came from the top down not from the students.

Students should have been given a 'number' from the administration or estimated one themselves and then held a vote to see if they were willing to pay.

Instead, the decision has been made which puts students under some degree of pressure to approve an increase in fees.