University of Illinois will drop Chief Illiniwek

[Junior]

URBANA, Ill. (AP) -- The University of Illinois will drop its 81-year-old American Indian mascot, Chief Illiniwek, following the last men's home game of the season on Wednesday, officials said.

The move makes the school eligible to host postseason NCAA championship events.

The NCAA in 2005 deemed Illiniwek -- portrayed by buckskin-clad students who dance at home football and basketball games and other athletic events -- an offensive use of American Indian imagery and barred the university from hosting postseason events.

http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=327250

[sambini]

A sign of the times..

[DIBISON]

Good for them.

[SDbison]

Much made of nothing. *I disagree about all this sensitivity and political correctness BS. *Instead of worrying about the little stuff, the Indians need to start addressing their real problems in an organized society (bad work habits, lack of financial stability, alcohol /drug abuse, inability to maintain property, etc.). *Getting rid of so called hostile imagery will do nothing to change their status. *
With all these new rules every kid in America will no longer have nightmares about hostile Indian attacks and the educated masses will now stop believing Indians live in tee pees, wear buffalo skins and scalp white men. * ::) *
Thank you misguided politicians and lawyers for another way to limit expression in a free society. *Thank God we have such great leaders in America. :-X

[56BISON73]

Much made of nothing. *I disagree about all this sensitivity and political correctness BS. *Instead of worrying about the little stuff, the Indians need to start addressing their real problems in an organized society (bad work habits, lack of financial stability, alcohol /drug abuse, inability to maintain property, etc.). *Getting rid of so called hostile imagery will do nothing to change their status. *
With all these new rules every kid in America will no longer have nightmares about hostile Indian attacks and the educated masses will now stop believing Indians live in tee pees, wear buffalo skins and scalp white men. * ::) *
Thank you misguided politicians and lawyers for another way to limit expression in a free society. *Thank God we have such great leaders in America. * :-X

Well said.
Cheif Illiniwek would practice for hours on the routine he did. It brought the whole stadium to its feet and there was nothing but respect showed.

As Ive said before. The NCAA needs to take care of the business it is supposed to do. Not try and direct social conciousness.

[kchats]

They are talking about possible new nicknames for the University of Illinois in this article.

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02/18/sports/doc45d7c40d71a1c875114610.txt

[TheDoctor]

They are talking about possible new nicknames for the University of Illinois in this article.

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02/18/sports/doc45d7c40d71a1c875114610.txt


NOW, lets find a new nick name for UND ;)!

[sambini]

FIRE TRUCKS

[Uni_of_No_Diks]

http://www.startribune.com/357/story/1014754.html


http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/coleman.html

OH OH.

[Flanders]

Wow. Are you really siding with Nick Coleman on this one? Good luck with that.

[sambini]

my oh my...

[SD-STATE]

Much made of nothing. I disagree about all this sensitivity and political correctness BS. Instead of worrying about the little stuff, the Indians need to start addressing their real problems in an organized society (bad work habits, lack of financial stability, alcohol /drug abuse, inability to maintain property, etc.). Getting rid of so called hostile imagery will do nothing to change their status.
With all these new rules every kid in America will no longer have nightmares about hostile Indian attacks and the educated masses will now stop believing Indians live in tee pees, wear buffalo skins and scalp white men.
Thank you misguided politicians and lawyers for another way to limit expression in a free society. Thank God we have such great leaders in America.

Nothing like naming of a few stereotypes and making yourself look stupid. You can't be serious can you?

[SDbison]

Much made of nothing. *I disagree about all this sensitivity and political correctness BS. *Instead of worrying about the little stuff, the Indians need to start addressing their real problems in an organized society (bad work habits, lack of financial stability, alcohol /drug abuse, inability to maintain property, etc.). *Getting rid of so called hostile imagery will do nothing to change their status. *
With all these new rules every kid in America will no longer have nightmares about hostile Indian attacks and the educated masses will now stop believing Indians live in tee pees, wear buffalo skins and scalp white men.
Thank you misguided politicians and lawyers for another way to limit expression in a free society. *Thank God we have such great leaders in America.

Nothing like naming of a few stereotypes and making yourself look stupid. You can't be serious can you?
If you have a brain and read in context what is being said it makes sense. What stereotypes? How about just plain facts like the high abuse of drugs and alcohol by American Indians. Do I need to pull up the data from the Internet for you? As far as taking care of property go take a look at any indian reservation. Have yet to see one that doesn't look like a dump, even a few years after free government housing is built for them. Indians are full of excuses and have nobody to blame but themselves.

[SD-STATE]

Pull up the facts, there are more whites living in poverty than American Indians. Drug and alcohol abuse are prevalent throughout the whole of society. Reservations look like a dump because that is a reflection of the poverty not the culture, and poverty is not restricted to American Indians. I was just trying to help you out, because it was you that sounded as if you had no brain. Any person that had one wouldn't have said those things in any CONTEXT. You don't represent the school you support and the people on this board very well sounding like a bigot and racist.

[56BISON73]

Pull up the facts, there are more whites living in poverty than American Indians. Drug and alcohol abuse are prevalent throughout the whole of society. Reservations look like a dump because that is a reflection of the poverty not the culture, and poverty is not restricted to American Indians. *I was just trying to help you out, because it was you that sounded as if you had no brain. Any person that had one wouldn't have said those things in any CONTEXT. You don't represent the school you support and the people on this board very well sounding like a bigot and racist.

Another fact many people dont know is that a very small percentage of Native Americans live on resevations. The many who are NOW trying to claim they are NA are wannabes and only want the casino money. Oh thats a quote from a NA friend of mine. PL

[IowaBison]

I don't know.

Is 33.5% low?

[SDbison]

Pull up the facts, there are more whites living in poverty than American Indians. Drug and alcohol abuse are prevalent throughout the whole of society. Reservations look like a dump because that is a reflection of the poverty not the culture, and poverty is not restricted to American Indians. *I was just trying to help you out, because it was you that sounded as if you had no brain. Any person that had one wouldn't have said those things in any CONTEXT. You don't represent the school you support and the people on this board very well sounding like a bigot and racist.
You pull up the facts you name calling idiot. You started this by calling me stupid and then later calling me a bigot and a racist. You have some big time problems. All I did is point out some well known problems Indians have. Nice try with "there are more Whites in poverty than Indians". Why don't you measure that as a percentage of race. Same goes for the drug and alcohol abuse. I think you will find the Indians are much higher in both these areas. Get a life and stay on your own frickin Jack board if you only want to come here and attack.

[SDbison]

Pull up the facts, there are more whites living in poverty than American Indians. Drug and alcohol abuse are prevalent throughout the whole of society. Reservations look like a dump because that is a reflection of the poverty not the culture, and poverty is not restricted to American Indians. *I was just trying to help you out, because it was you that sounded as if you had no brain. Any person that had one wouldn't have said those things in any CONTEXT. You don't represent the school you support and the people on this board very well sounding like a bigot and racist.
You pull up the facts you name calling idiot. *You started this by calling me stupid and then later calling me a bigot and a racist. *You have some big time problems. *All I did is point out some well known problems Indians have. *Nice try with "there are more Whites in poverty than Indians". *Why don't you measure that as a percentage of race. *Same goes for the drug and alcohol abuse. *I think you will find the Indians are much higher in both these areas. Get a life and stay on your own frickin Jack board if you only want to come here and attack. *
For your reference here are some facts:
According to the 2000 Census, there were 4.1 million American Indians, including Alaska Natives. Native Americans remain the poorest minority group in the nation. The poverty rate among Indian people is 25.9%, compared to the national rate of 11.3%. (from several different sources I found the percentage of whites in poverty was around 6%).
Rates of current illicit Drug use among the major racial/ethnic groups in 2001 were 7.2 percent for whites, 6.4 percent for Hispanics, and 7.4 percent for blacks. The rate was highest among American Indians/Alaska Natives (9.9 percent) and persons reporting more than one race (12.6 percent). Asians had the lowest rate (2.8 percent).

[SD-STATE]

I will admit, that I could have more tactfully disagreed with your statement. For that I apologize. The following are questions that popped up in my mind as I read the post of yours I first responded to. Hopefully, you can see where I'm coming, and you can tell me if I'm still an idiot or totally misinterpreted your posts, or both if you wish.

Ok, so if Native Americans raised their status, cleaned up their act, made more money, repaired run-down homes, etc. Would their arguments and complaints be more reasonable? Credible?

Are Native Americans the only people with the problems mentioned in our discussion?

The problems that you pointed out, do they pertain to all Native Americans?

Does a person that belongs to a race, that does not have the high percentages of problems you mentioned give them more of a right to decide what is wrong or right, in reference to Native American nicknames and mascots?

Can you honestly say that you can truly understand why those nicknames and mascots are so offensive to Native Americans?

[SD-STATE]

This is an article I found a long time ago, it was written well before then, 1991. Tim Giago of the Lakota Times wrote this as part of an article he did around the time of the the Atlanta Braves making the World Series in 1991. I am not trying to preach and it is not my true intent to attack. I just want to help broaden people's perspectives.




The sham rituals, such as the wearing of feathers, smoking of so-called peace pipes, beating of tom-toms, fake dances, horrendous attempts at singing Indian songs, the so-called war whoops, and the painted faces, address more than issues of racism. They are direct attacks upon the spirituality (religion) of the Indian people.
Suppose a team like the New Orleans Saints decided to include religious rituals in their halftime shows in keeping with their name. Would different religious groups feel insulted to see these rituals on national television?

For instance: suppose Saints’ fans decided to emulate Catholicism as part of their routine. What if they carried crosses, had a mascot dressed up like the Pope, spread ashes on their foreheads, and displayed enlarged replicas of the sacramental bread of Holy Communion while drinking form chalices filled with wine?
Would Catholics consider these routines anti-Catholic?
Eagle feathers play an important role in the spirituality of Native Americans. Faces are painted in a sacred way.
The Pipes that became known to the white man as “peace pipes” are known to most Indians who use them as part of their spirituality as Sacred Pipes. To most tribes of the Great Plains the Pipe was, and is, their Bible.
Because the treaties signed between the sovereign Indian nations and the U.S. government were so sacred and so important to the Indian nations, the signing was usually attended by the smoking of a Sacred Pipe.
This spiritual gesture was intended to show the white man that the document just signed was a sacred one and would be treated as such by the Indian people.
Since most of the treaties were intended to bring about peace between white man and Indian, the Sacred Pipe a peace pipe.
The point I hope to make here is that there is a national insensitivity when it comes to the religious beliefs, traditional values and the culture of the American Indian.
It is bad enough that American sees nothing wrong in naming football teams after the color of a people’s skin. Jack Kent Cooke, owner of the Redskins, considers the name Washington Redskins complimentary to the Indian people.
Would he consider a team called the Minnesota White-skins complimentary to the white race?
The Christian Bible says, “Do un to others as you would have them do unto you.” Would God-fearing Christians use sports mascots that would insult the Jewish people, Muslims, Buddhists, Shintoists, Hindus or any other minority religious group?
If not, then why in the world would they do this to the indigenous people of the Western Hemisphere, the American Indian?




Tim Giago
Copyright 1991 Lakota Times

Mascots, Spirituality, and Insensitivity

[SD-STATE]

For your reference here are some facts:
According to the 2000 Census, there were 4.1 million American Indians, including Alaska Natives. Native Americans remain the poorest minority group in the nation. The poverty rate among Indian people is 25.9%, compared to the national rate of 11.3%. (from several different sources I found the percentage of whites in poverty was around 6%).
Rates of current illicit Drug use among the major racial/ethnic groups in 2001 were 7.2 percent for whites, 6.4 percent for Hispanics, and 7.4 percent for blacks. The rate was highest among American Indians/Alaska Natives (9.9 percent) and persons reporting more than one race (12.6 percent). Asians had the lowest rate (2.8 percent).

Some more questions, not an attack.

Do the approximately 74% of Native Americans not living in poverty deserve to have their voices heard?
- 90% of not illicitly using drugs?

[BisonSig]

Here's the deal, I have said it many times. You can chose to be offended or you can chose to not be offended. When UND and all these other schools chose the names for their mascots, do you really believe their intent was to belittle the Native Americans? Some one, some where, decided to mock someone elses mascot. That was the demaining and belittling behavior. Not the Mascot name.

When you have lemons make lemonade. These Native Americans need to use the platform that having thier Tribe as a mascot for a University could allow them. They have a right and a responsibility to themselves to cause positive discussion that will encourage others to see them in a more positive light. Or they can have all the mascots names removed so that no one hears or cares about them.

I know for a fact that at least 2 North Dakota Native American communities have Warriors as their high school nickname and at least 1 more has Braves. Their choice. They could change it any time they like.

Maybe they wouldn't be upset with these Universities if there was a large sum of money in it for them for the 'licensing' of their tribal name. Money has a way of making the Native Americans happy for a while (the same with every other American I can think of).

So SDBison, SD-STATE: your both correct, Native Americans do deserve to have their voices heard, and they do have their problems, but what does a University mascot really have to do with either?

[Shawn-O]

Maybe they wouldn't be upset with these Universities if there was a large sum of money in it for them for the 'licensing' of their tribal name. *Money has a way of making the Native Americans happy for a while (the same with every other American I can think of).

Why do you think everything is so cozy between Florida State University and the Seminole Tribe? *

[sambini]

Money talks .....And those Seminoles got plenty of it. Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino In Florida.

[IowaBison]

You can chose to be offended or you can chose to not be offended.

Can people choose to be ignorant?

;)

[BisonSig]

You can chose to be offended or you can chose to not be offended. *

Can people choose to be ignorant?

;)

Point made. :D

I may be ignorant but I look good doing it. ;)

[IowaBison]

You're a good man, Sig.