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Bison_Dan
12-19-2006, 12:44 PM
I see a article in the gf herald says that MN, Iowa, & Wis. won't play the sioux in any sports except hockey because of their name. Too bad! ;D ;D


http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=20977&section=News

IowaBison
12-19-2006, 01:16 PM
So Minnesota won't play them in any sport other than hockey........


Still not enough to make them change their name, but that's probably half million dollars worth of guarantee money and publicity lost each year.........

RedRiver
12-19-2006, 01:19 PM
That news report was on the radio this morning also. That decision has to be a huge blow to UND. The Gophers have to be the #1 choice for scheduling. Heck, I still think about the Bison-Gopher football game in the Metrodome!!

NDSUguy
12-19-2006, 01:22 PM
That news report was on the radio this morning also. *That decision has to be a huge blow to UND. *The Gophers have to be the #1 choice for scheduling. *Heck, I still think about the Bison-Gopher football game in the Metrodome!!
+++++++++
I'll be there next year!

Bison_Dan
12-19-2006, 01:32 PM
That news report was on the radio this morning also. *That decision has to be a huge blow to UND. *The Gophers have to be the #1 choice for scheduling. *Heck, I still think about the Bison-Gopher football game in the Metrodome!!
+++++++++
I'll be there next year!

Me too. Most fun I've ever had at a Bison game. (and I've been to quite a few). I haven't talked to anyone that was there that isn't going back. This is a HUGH blow to und.

IowaBison
12-19-2006, 01:35 PM
maybe a reason to stay DII.........

(I kid, I kid)

westriverbison
12-19-2006, 01:43 PM
http://static.flickr.com/71/187528924_f3522ad9ed_m.jpg


The straw that will break the camel's back

imabison
12-19-2006, 02:12 PM
I see a article in the gf herald says that MN, Iowa, & Wis. won't play the sioux in any sports except hockey because of their name. *Too bad! * ;D ;D


http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=20977&section=News


And if anyone paid attention when they announced the delay of the trial of the lawsuit that the "Judge" recommended that sides try to come to an agreement by changing the logo/nickname. When the Judge makes a recommendation it could mean that he sees the writing on the wall.

IowaBisonToo
12-19-2006, 02:26 PM
I see a article in the gf herald says that MN, Iowa, & Wis. won't play the sioux in any sports except hockey because of their name. *Too bad! * ;D ;D


http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=20977&section=News


And if anyone paid attention when they announced the delay of the trial of the lawsuit that the "Judge" recommended that sides try to come to an agreement by changing the logo/nickname. *When the Judge makes a recommendation it could mean that he sees the writing on the wall. *
Yeah, and to think the "Judge" is a UND grad. *To early to tell, though. *Maybe he just wants to prolong the name thing so the Sioux can continue to host post-season events. *Although, the way their hockey team is playing this year, they won't have to worry about that one. *Maybe for women's basketball.

IowaBisonToo
12-19-2006, 02:27 PM
http://static.flickr.com/71/187528924_f3522ad9ed_m.jpg


The straw that will break the camel's back
;D ;D ;DThat's a big straw! What do you suck with that thing? :D

84grad
12-19-2006, 02:55 PM
The judge asked that the parties try to work something out-of-court in the meantime, but I doubt if that is really possible. *Both camps are so set in their ways that there is no middle ground, no win-win situation. *It will only drag out even more and prolong the sue's agony in the media. * :'( :'( :'(

Flanders
12-19-2006, 03:13 PM
The judge never said this. Why would you make this up?




I see a article in the gf herald says that MN, Iowa, & Wis. won't play the sioux in any sports except hockey because of their name. Too bad! ;D ;D


http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=20977&section=News


And if anyone paid attention when they announced the delay of the trial of the lawsuit that the "Judge" recommended that sides try to come to an agreement by changing the logo/nickname. When the Judge makes a recommendation it could mean that he sees the writing on the wall.

IowaBison
12-19-2006, 03:14 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.

IowaBisonToo
12-19-2006, 04:17 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.
I heard it, too. Geez, Flanders. Anything that might be construed as something bad against und (which this by no means is) gets you all riled up. If it wasn't verbatim, it was pretty damn close.

Junior
12-19-2006, 04:41 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.
I heard it, too. *Geez, Flanders. *Anything that might be construed as something bad against und (which this by no means is) gets you all riled up. *If it wasn't verbatim, it was pretty damn close.

When did the GFH web site start looking exactly like the Forum web site? I never read the Hearld so I just noticed this.

Junior
12-19-2006, 04:42 PM
http://static.flickr.com/71/187528924_f3522ad9ed_m.jpg


The straw that will break the camel's back
;D ;D ;DThat's a big straw! *What do you suck with that thing? :D

Maybe it's just a small camel..... :D

BisBison
12-19-2006, 04:58 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.
I heard it, too. *Geez, Flanders. *Anything that might be construed as something bad against und (which this by no means is) gets you all riled up. *If it wasn't verbatim, it was pretty damn close.

When did the GFH web site start looking exactly like the Forum web site? *I never read the Hearld so I just noticed this. *

right after the Forum bought the Herald.

Hambone
12-19-2006, 05:17 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.
I heard it, too. *Geez, Flanders. *Anything that might be construed as something bad against und (which this by no means is) gets you all riled up. *If it wasn't verbatim, it was pretty damn close.
I think Flanders might be talking about imabison saying that they should come to an "agreement by changing the logo/nickname". I heard that the judge wanted them to settle on an agreement, but I never heard the judge say by "changing the logo/nickname". Of course, it could have said that but I don't remember it worded like that.

NDSUguy
12-19-2006, 05:40 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.
I heard it, too. *Geez, Flanders. *Anything that might be construed as something bad against und (which this by no means is) gets you all riled up. *If it wasn't verbatim, it was pretty damn close.
I think Flanders might be talking about imabison saying that they should come to an "agreement by changing the logo/nickname". *I heard that the judge wanted them to settle on an agreement, but I never heard the judge say by "changing the logo/nickname". *Of course, it could have said that but I don't remember it worded like that.

In the article it was stated that the judge said that it might be best to change the name. That being said, I think that he was referring to the use of the word "fighting" - alluding to the fact that the sioux indians might accept the logo/mascot more if they weren't labeled as hostile people.

Junior
12-19-2006, 05:54 PM
He certainly did, it was in the press.
I heard it, too. *Geez, Flanders. *Anything that might be construed as something bad against und (which this by no means is) gets you all riled up. *If it wasn't verbatim, it was pretty damn close.

When did the GFH web site start looking exactly like the Forum web site? *I never read the Hearld so I just noticed this. *

right after the Forum bought the Herald.

Hmm, I guess I missed that. Oh well.

RedRiver
12-19-2006, 05:54 PM
Just another example of the nickname issue costing UND big-time. Like what was stated in the aritcle, that is alot of guarantee money and PR. Just look at the Bison-Gophers football game this past fall for the many benefits of such a game.

BisBison
12-19-2006, 05:56 PM
Sorry, but I think it's funny. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

2006gwfcchamps
12-19-2006, 06:00 PM
If for some reason the NCAA wanted NDSU to get rid of "Bison", I'd rather we just be known as NDSU rather than something else.

Junior
12-19-2006, 06:03 PM
Sorry, but I think it's funny. *;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Not like it hasn't been coming for years and years and years and years.....

mikelsch
12-19-2006, 06:23 PM
UND is off-the-record considering __________ as replacement nicknames

1. "Force of the North"
2. No nickname

IowaBison
12-19-2006, 06:57 PM
Are they considering both or is this a quiz?

I like tool crib of the north.

tony
12-19-2006, 07:03 PM
If I were them, I'd consider just going without a nickname - like universities did for decade upon decade before product licensing became big business.

As long as the nickname isn't official, folks can call themselves whatever they want. Offical nicknames are just about marketing - UND, of course, wants to continue to use the Sioux name, heritage, and image to help market their product, but the only thing that would change from them going "unofficial" is that they wouldn't be able make money by licensing the Sioux name and image to folks peddling t-shirts, water, hotdogs, etc.

IowaBison
12-19-2006, 07:12 PM
they could (almost certainly would?) establish a dummy corporation that retained ownership of the logo and other property

-establish a board independent of the university
-sell apparel with North Dakota and the logo on it
-give all proceeds back to the university

TheDoctor
12-19-2006, 08:10 PM
If I were them, I'd consider just going without a nickname - like universities did for decade upon decade before product licensing became big business.

As long as the nickname isn't official, folks can call themselves whatever they want. Offical nicknames are just about marketing - UND, of course, wants to continue to use the Sioux name, heritage, and image to help market their product, but the only thing that would change from them going "unofficial" is that they wouldn't be able make money by licensing the Sioux name and image to folks peddling t-shirts, water, hotdogs, etc.



I agree! Make them UND. When they make it to Division 1, people will say things like, "So you guys are independant" to which they will say "yes, except in hockey", most will then say "Hockey? What the hell is hockey and why would you want to waist money on that when you have football! Everyone wants to play the University of Notre Dame in football! " "Oh no, were the other UND the one that sued the NCAA and are so proud of our hockey program". To which they will say "ARen't you guys Division 2?' ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

markerman
12-19-2006, 08:58 PM
I would guess that in addition to these three schools not playing them, their nickname will weigh heavily in future conference discussions (except for the Great West, who will have no choice).

IowaBison
12-19-2006, 09:16 PM
maybe i should encourage the faculty senate to support a new policy similar to Minnesota's.


hehehe

SDbison
12-19-2006, 09:17 PM
How about the UND Fighting Sue. Could be a way around the legal issues with the tribes while still keeping the same sounding name......that is, unless all the women and boys named Sue got together to sue the Sue. ;D ;D ;D

mikelsch
12-19-2006, 09:50 PM
I would guess that in addition to these three schools not playing them, their nickname will weigh heavily in future conference discussions (except for the Great West, who will have no choice).

Their current nickname is an issue with the Big Sky; not sure about the Mid-Con. Conferences don't want to pick up a controversial school that could bring negative publicity to the entire conference.

Bisonguy
12-19-2006, 10:11 PM
UND is off-the-record considering __________ as replacement nicknames

1. "Force of the North"
2. *No nickname



First off, love the new avatar Greenie.

Second, my FIL told me this weekend that the entire "Force of the North" ad campaign is a transition to the new nickname. FWIW, he's pretty "connected" to the UND administration (athletic and academic)while not technically on the payroll. He told me Hakstol was the new coach three days before Blais left UND, so he has a pretty good track record on inside info.

IowaBisonToo
12-19-2006, 10:19 PM
UND is off-the-record considering __________ as replacement nicknames

1. "Force of the North"
2. *No nickname
I thought "Fighting Fire Trucks" was right up there as the front runner. ;)

IowaBisonToo
12-19-2006, 10:22 PM
If I were them, I'd consider just going without a nickname - like universities did for decade upon decade before product licensing became big business.

As long as the nickname isn't official, folks can call themselves whatever they want. Offical nicknames are just about marketing - UND, of course, wants to continue to use the Sioux name, heritage, and image to help market their product, but the only thing that would change from them going "unofficial" is that they wouldn't be able make money by licensing the Sioux name and image to folks peddling t-shirts, water, hotdogs, etc.



I agree! *Make them UND. *When they make it to Division 1, people will say things like, "So you guys are independant" to which they will say "yes, except in hockey", most will then say "Hockey? *What the hell is hockey and why would you want to waist money on that when you have football! *Everyone wants to play the University of Notre Dame in football! " *"Oh no, were the other UND the one that sued the NCAA and are so proud of our hockey program". * To which they will say "ARen't you guys Division 2?' ;D *;D * ;D * ;D *;D * *;D * * ;D
Don't forget, the big-time UND has a DI hockey team, too.

RodentiaX1
12-19-2006, 10:31 PM
They could change the nickname to the Fighting Soup.

Swaghook
12-20-2006, 02:47 AM
UND is off-the-record considering __________ as replacement nicknames

1. "Force of the North"


"Farce of the North" sounds more appropriate to me.

TransAmBison
12-20-2006, 02:55 AM
UND is off-the-record considering __________ as replacement nicknames

1. "Force of the North"


"Farce of the North" sounds more appropriate to me.
that's great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IowaBison
12-20-2006, 02:56 AM
Fart of the North aka the North Wind?

would make a great song


....when the north wind blows......and the coyotes suck......................

SDbison
12-20-2006, 04:47 AM
So "Force of the North" wouldn't be their nickname. *What are they going to call themselves, the UND Fighting Force? * ;D ;D

TheDoctor
12-20-2006, 06:38 AM
Fart of the North aka the North Wind?

would make a great song


....when the north wind blows......and the coyotes suck......................


;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


FINISH IT!

Jeffdaryl3rd
12-20-2006, 01:17 PM
Force of the North would be the worst nickname ever, so I think even UND can come up with something better than that. Fighting Fire trucks all the way.

kchats
12-21-2006, 03:25 AM
How about the Big Wind.

IowaBison
12-21-2006, 03:28 AM
I'm hoping that UND doesn't pick a nickname.

Then NDSU students could start a tradition where each spring a vote is held to determine what derogatory name they will use to refer to UND for the following academic year.

sambini
12-21-2006, 03:44 AM
FIRETRUCKS OR RED PEPPERS TACO GRINDERS MMM I MUST BE HUNGRY?

lakesbison
12-21-2006, 04:06 AM
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!! WE DONT PLAY THEM NOR WILL WE!! MY GOD!!!!!!


QUIT POLLUTING MY NDSU BISON BOARD WITH THIS CRAP!!!

Jeffdaryl3rd
12-21-2006, 01:32 PM
lakes, if you don't like reading this type of stuff, don't read it. Simple as that.

imabison
12-21-2006, 01:50 PM
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!! *WE DONT PLAY THEM NOR WILL WE!! * *MY GOD!!!!!!


QUIT POLLUTING MY NDSU BISON BOARD WITH THIS CRAP!!!



Lakes I will make a deal with you, if the teams do not play in the next 5 years in any sports, I will pay you $ 20. *You do not know who I am, but I know who you are so I will be good for it. *

I am so sure it will happen that I will not even require you to pay me.

No, let me modify my payment, I will make the payment to the Team Makers where it will do more good.

That school up north has a new AD who has been trying to patch things up from the very beginning. *Do I support the school up north. *Nope, do I think the games will be schedules again. *Almost positive.

sambini
12-23-2006, 10:32 AM
Teammakers can use the money. Thanks for your support.

Gully
12-23-2006, 01:28 PM
How about the UND Fighting Sue. *Could be a way around the legal issues with the tribes while still keeping the same sounding name......that is, unless all the women and boys named Sue got together to sue the Sue. * ;D ;D ;D

Great post....this one made me LOL. :) :)

Jeffdaryl3rd
12-23-2006, 03:09 PM
I have to say that as much as I would rather not see UND on the schedule, I'm going to agree with imabison and say that there is almost zero chance they aren't on the schedule sometime in the near future. If they go D-I the games (aside from bad blood from the start of the transition) just make too much sense not to happen.

sambini
12-23-2006, 09:35 PM
It will happen when who knows? Do you miss them ? Not really time to move on.

DIBISON
12-24-2006, 05:48 AM
It will happen when who knows? Do you miss them ? Not really time to move on.

I agree!! They are not on the schedule for this year and not on the schedule for next year so who cares. Talk about them when they are ON the schedule.

RodentiaX1
12-24-2006, 08:09 AM
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!! WE DONT PLAY THEM NOR WILL WE!! MY GOD!!!!!!


QUIT POLLUTING MY NDSU BISON BOARD WITH THIS CRAP!!!



Your board? When did you create this board? When did you get made a moderator? Who gave you the authority to issue orders here?

sambini
12-24-2006, 02:31 PM
Aw that just Lakes venting his frustration. Lakes did you own a SUE SUCK shirt? I'LL get you one for x-mas. I know the guy who made and designed them. Time to listen to SID AND DAVE. About the Bison -Gopher WOMENS GAME...

Jeffdaryl3rd
12-24-2006, 02:51 PM
I guess I should just be thankful that we don't have them on any of the schedules for this year. Hopefully this continues.

lakesbison
12-24-2006, 02:53 PM
Lakes, watch the "gay" remarks. That is as inappropriate as the "N" word! Post edited.

--WYO

RodentiaX1
12-24-2006, 09:08 PM
Well, it's sure not my board, I didn't create it, nd am not a moderator. As such, I don't scream at people and attempt to give orders on a board that I neither created nor moderate.

RedRiver
02-02-2007, 01:33 PM
I see a article in the gf herald says that MN, Iowa, & Wis. won't play the sioux in any sports except hockey because of their name. *Too bad! * ;D ;D


http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=20977&section=News


Neither will the University of Wisconsin.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=25900&section=sports

IowaBison
02-02-2007, 03:28 PM
Wowwy wow wowwy wow.

I can't see how the name won't be changed now. The PR and the money lost from not being able to play the U and Wisconsin are significant, but why would any conference add them? Despite UND's many assets, their location, NCAA rules, and the negative pr outweigh them.

NDBs prediction: UND will be without an all-sports conference until after they drop their name.

[you can't help but think that UND's administrators hadn't foreseen this. I've known about Minnesota's, Wisconsin's, and Iowa's rules for years.]

Bison_Dan
02-02-2007, 04:04 PM
Wowwy wow wowwy wow.

I can't see how the name won't be changed now. *The PR and the money lost from not being able to play the U and Wisconsin are significant, but why would any conference add them? *Despite UND's many assets, their location, NCAA rules, and the negative pr outweigh them.

NDBs prediction: *UND will be without an all-sports conference until after they drop their name.

[you can't help but think that UND's administrators hadn't foreseen this. *I've known about Minnesota's, Wisconsin's, and Iowa's rules for years.]



How can you have known it when und's crack DI committee missed it? It just goes to show that the whole DI report is all fluff like I said when it came out. I think your right, this will be the straw that breaks the camels back and they will change their name now. ;)

Mr._Bill
02-03-2007, 04:18 PM
I don't see why it is inevitable that we will be playing the Sioux. *They will not be in any of our conferences, period, for the next 5 years. *Not basketball, not football, not baseball, not soccer . . . no conferenece affiliation at all (assuming the GFC comes through, a high probability). *Yes it makes sence to play them in time, but nothing will happen due to being in the same conference which would be the easiest way to meet on the field so no one has to eat crow over scheduling the other.

They will be despirate, despirate, despirate (did I make that clear) for games against NDSU and SDSU, and we will most likely throw them a bone in a couple of years. *Therefore, I think your $20 is probably safe within the next 5 years. *But with no conference affiliation, it is not inevitable.

BTW, the next time a sioux fan tells me that NDSU fans are jealous of und and have an inferiority complex, I think I will puke. They have almost left my radar totally, and it's doesn't feel that bad. What would I be jealous about . . . leadership, nickname, growth, competition they play, vison, being owned by a large donor?

The only thing that an ndsu fan could possible look to und with eny about is hockey, and that is also off my personal radar. IMO, being owned by and cowering to the REA is nothing to be jealous of and taints their success. If any NDSU donor wanted to give a hundred million with a bunch of unreasonable strings such as Ralph did, I would say no thanks.

RedRiver
02-03-2007, 07:22 PM
I don't see why it is inevitable that we will be playing the Sioux. *They will not be in any of our conferences, period, for the next 5 years. *Not basketball, not football, not baseball, not soccer . . . no conferenece affiliation at all (assuming the GFC comes through, a high probability). *Yes it makes sence to play them in time, but nothing will happen due to being in the same conference which would be the easiest way to meet on the field so no one has to eat crow over scheduling the other.

They will be despirate, despirate, despirate (did I make that clear) for games against NDSU and SDSU, and we will most likely throw them a bone in a couple of years. *Therefore, I think your $20 is probably safe within the next 5 years. *But with no conference affiliation, it is not inevitable.

BTW, the next time a sioux fan tells me that NDSU fans are jealous of und and have an inferiority complex, I think I will puke. *They have almost left my radar totally, and it's doesn't feel that bad. What would I be jealous about . . . leadership, nickname, growth, competition they play, vison, being owned by a large donor?

The only thing that an ndsu fan could possible look to und with eny about is hockey, and that is also off my personal radar. *IMO, being owned by and cowering to the REA is nothing to be jealous of and taints their success. *If any NDSU donor wanted to give a hundred million with a bunch of unreasonable strings such as Ralph did, I would say no thanks. *

The Bison may not be playing them every year, especially in football. If the schools are in different conferences their open dates may not align every year.

DIBISON
02-04-2007, 03:58 AM
Wowwy wow wowwy wow.

I can't see how the name won't be changed now. *The PR and the money lost from not being able to play the U and Wisconsin are significant, but why would any conference add them? *Despite UND's many assets, their location, NCAA rules, and the negative pr outweigh them.

NDBs prediction: *UND will be without an all-sports conference until after they drop their name.

[you can't help but think that UND's administrators hadn't foreseen this. *I've known about Minnesota's, Wisconsin's, and Iowa's rules for years.]

You are so right. The lost pr and money from no games with the Gophers and Badgers in the major sports of football and basketball has got to hurt.

TaTonka_31
03-06-2007, 08:31 PM
I have to hand it to UND's legal team for using the North Dakota's open records laws to get the NCAA to release transcripts from meetings regarding mascot nicknames.

It seems the NCAA is very, very reluctant to let the public hear what some of their narrow minded PC committee member have to say regarding this subject. *They are afraid they will be exposed for what they are is just a bunch of people trying to make themselves seem important at the expense of others and their traditions. *That is all this whole issue boils down to. *A very few making life miserable for many.

IowaBison
03-06-2007, 08:43 PM
baloney.

the judge screwed up in his initial decision. it seems as if UND is going revisit the decision making process down to the smallest detail, there is no end to this method and thus is a violation of the NCAA's freedom to assemble.

mikelsch
03-06-2007, 08:49 PM
Whatever the case is, no conference (except the Great West, because of absolute necessity) will invite UND with this nickname crap going on. It is in their best interest to quit pissing off the NCAA and figure out a reasonable compromise. The NCAA holds all the cards, it's THEIR championships --> they make the rules.

IowaBison
03-06-2007, 08:55 PM
++++

Flanders
03-06-2007, 08:56 PM
Actually, BisonBlogger is right. The judge didn't screw up the initial ruling. Also, you might want to brush up on North Dakota's Open Records Laws. It's very long and some of it is beyond tedious, but it is interesting. I can PM them to you if you'd like. Wayne Stenjehm and Co. are doing genious work on this. You know, you can remain a Bison fan and still hate PC running amok.

Flanders
03-06-2007, 08:58 PM
Whatever the case is, no conference (except the Great West, because of absolute necessity) will invite UND with this nickname crap going on. It is in their best interest to quit pissing off the NCAA and figure out a reasonable compromise. The NCAA holds all the cards, it's THEIR championships --> they make the rules.

I can absolutely gurantee you that you are wrong about this.

TaTonka_31
03-06-2007, 08:58 PM
Whatever the case, it sure would be fun to hear what these NCAA people have to say about colleges and their athletic traditions behind closed doors.

IowaBison
03-06-2007, 09:00 PM
Whatever the case is, no conference (except the Great West, because of absolute necessity) will invite UND with this nickname crap going on. It is in their best interest to quit pissing off the NCAA and figure out a reasonable compromise. The NCAA holds all the cards, it's THEIR championships --> they make the rules.

I can absolutely gurantee you that you are wrong about this.

You're a shoe-in for the Big Sky. Riight ;)

IowaBison
03-06-2007, 09:01 PM
Actually, BisonBlogger is right. The judge didn't screw up the initial ruling. Also, you might want to brush up on North Dakota's Open Records Laws. It's very long and some of it is beyond tedious, but it is interesting. I can PM them to you if you'd like. Wayne Stenjehm and Co. are doing genious work on this. You know, you can remain a Bison fan and still hate PC running amok.

Did I refer to open records laws?

Flanders
03-06-2007, 09:02 PM
Whatever the case is, no conference (except the Great West, because of absolute necessity) will invite UND with this nickname crap going on. It is in their best interest to quit pissing off the NCAA and figure out a reasonable compromise. The NCAA holds all the cards, it's THEIR championships --> they make the rules.

I can absolutely gurantee you that you are wrong about this.

You're a shoe-in for the Big Sky. Riight ;)

I hope not. ;)

Flanders
03-06-2007, 09:04 PM
Actually, BisonBlogger is right. The judge didn't screw up the initial ruling. Also, you might want to brush up on North Dakota's Open Records Laws. It's very long and some of it is beyond tedious, but it is interesting. I can PM them to you if you'd like. Wayne Stenjehm and Co. are doing genious work on this. You know, you can remain a Bison fan and still hate PC running amok.

Did I refer to open records laws?



My mistake.

SDbison
03-07-2007, 02:04 AM
I have to hand it to UND's legal team for using the North Dakota's open records laws to get the NCAA to release transcripts from meetings regarding mascot nicknames.

It seems the NCAA is very, very reluctant to let the public hear what some of their narrow minded PC committee member have to say regarding this subject. *They are afraid they will be exposed for what they are is just a bunch of people trying to make themselves seem important at the expense of others and their traditions. *That is all this whole issue boils down to. *A very few making life miserable for many.
This is great. I hope the NCAA gets caught with their pants down. This stupid PC crap o rama has to stop somewhere. I can hear those NCAA bafoons trying to justify how it is OK for some tribes (who get paid off) to allow so called offensive nicknames while elsewhere it is taboo. Good luck UND.

IowaBison
03-07-2007, 02:44 AM
[From a Man for All Seasons, out last week on DVD]

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!



(in this context you have decide who the Devil is UND or the NCAA ;))

mikelsch
03-07-2007, 03:01 PM
Whatever the case is, no conference (except the Great West, because of absolute necessity) will invite UND with this nickname crap going on. *It is in their best interest to quit pissing off the NCAA and figure out a reasonable compromise. *The NCAA holds all the cards, it's THEIR championships --> they make the rules.

I can absolutely gurantee you that you are wrong about this. *

What actually makes you think you are right? I would be interested to hear any real evidence to support your opinion.

Flanders
03-07-2007, 07:07 PM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". Well, which is it? UND doesn't have to change it's name. Nobody has told them they have to change their name. What exactly do you see as the problem? Serious question.

Bison_Dan
03-07-2007, 08:09 PM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". *Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". *Well, which is it? *UND doesn't have to change it's name. *Nobody has told them they have to change their name. *What exactly do you see as the problem? *Serious question.

Well lets see - suing the NCAA - win, lose, or draw you lose. Do you actually think that they will be straight up with you after this? They may penalize (not outright) any team that schedules the sioux. Lets face it, if it wasn't for the REA the name would have been changed. But if your happy then everything is great.

sambini
03-07-2007, 09:41 PM
All I know is were in the MID-CON and Gateway .And its a great day to be a BISON.

Flanders
03-07-2007, 10:17 PM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". Well, which is it? UND doesn't have to change it's name. Nobody has told them they have to change their name. What exactly do you see as the problem? Serious question.

Well lets see - suing the NCAA - win, lose, or draw you lose. Do you actually think that they will be straight up with you after this? They may penalize (not outright) any team that schedules the sioux. Lets face it, if it wasn't for the REA the name would have been changed. But if your happy then everything is great.

I'm not happy. People such as yourself, knowing full well that this PC B.S. has gone entirely too far, allowing your hatred of a school to cloud your personal judgement. You know this is total crap. Everyone does. I commend the Bison faithful that have spoken out about this.

Shawn-O
03-07-2007, 10:49 PM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". *Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". *Well, which is it? *UND doesn't have to change it's name. *Nobody has told them they have to change their name. *What exactly do you see as the problem? *Serious question.

Well lets see - suing the NCAA - win, lose, or draw you lose. *Do you actually think that they will be straight up with you after this? *They may penalize (not outright) any team that schedules the sioux. *Lets face it, if it wasn't for the REA the name would have been changed. *But if your happy then everything is great. *

You have absolutely nothing to base this on (other than the kool-aid served up in this forum), and you know it.

bisonmike
03-08-2007, 03:21 AM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". *Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". *Well, which is it? *UND doesn't have to change it's name. *Nobody has told them they have to change their name. *What exactly do you see as the problem? *Serious question.

Well lets see - suing the NCAA - win, lose, or draw you lose. *Do you actually think that they will be straight up with you after this? *They may penalize (not outright) any team that schedules the sioux. *Lets face it, if it wasn't for the REA the name would have been changed. *But if your happy then everything is great. *

You have absolutely nothing to base this on (other than the kool-aid served up in this forum), and you know it. *


Well there is the odd coincidence when Kupchella and Co. declared that the name would stay right after Ralph sent his infamous nasty little letter explaining how he would stop contruction on REA if the name was changed. I find it hard to believe that didn't have anything to do with it.

Bison_Dan
03-08-2007, 12:45 PM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". *Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". *Well, which is it? *UND doesn't have to change it's name. *Nobody has told them they have to change their name. *What exactly do you see as the problem? *Serious question.

Well lets see - suing the NCAA - win, lose, or draw you lose. *Do you actually think that they will be straight up with you after this? *They may penalize (not outright) any team that schedules the sioux. *Lets face it, if it wasn't for the REA the name would have been changed. *But if your happy then everything is great. *

You have absolutely nothing to base this on (other than the kool-aid served up in this forum), and you know it. *


I didn't say I agree with their actions (NCAA). But face the facts - You can stick your head in the sand and say it has nothing to do with the REA or the NCAA will be good sports if they lose and say "can't we all just get along"? It does and they won't!

tony
03-08-2007, 02:11 PM
Hehe, the irony of a stridently policitically correct university acting like they are arrayed against the forces of "PC run amok!" Spare me... Nobody complains more about non-PC behavior than UND... NOBODY. Nobody comes up with more draconian "cures" for impolite speech. Since when is "Sioux suck!" anything more than a a bit boorish? However, UND's position is that folks who say this are brutish racists who should be silenced (no First Amendment rights for individuals, I guess, only institutions). Personally, I do NOT yell "Sioux Suck!" and I hate to hear it, but only since some prominent Sioux leaders who I respect asked us to stop. For UND to make a federal case and make people take off t-shirts with "Sioux Suck" on them or censure kids for yelling seems to present a paradox as UND itself is ultimately responsible for the situtation - after all, it is they who have chosen to use Sioux culture as an athletic marketing device. How can they act shocked and surprised that mascots are symbolically ill-treated by fans of other teams when all other mascots are?

That's the problem with UND and their dang nickname. It is a potential PR disaster for any school to schedule them - and most of all for NDSU because UND has proven time and time again that they will not hesitate to try an make NDSU's "bad behavior" a media event if they can. Before NDSU ever schedules UND again, we should have their assurance that they completely understand that any disrespect of their mascot has nothing to do with disrespect toward the actual Sioux Nation and that they will affirm as much if it becomes an issue in the media. Believe me, when I was bellowing out "Sioux Suck!" when I was in college, I was displaying no malice toward the real Sioux, I was merely engaging in some alliterative disrespect for an opponent - and mild disrespect at that.

They can't even tell us that "Well, you are disrespecting the Sioux Nation because you have ignored their request that you stop" without being monumental hypocrites because they have spent decades ignoring the requests of the same folks.

IowaBisonToo
03-08-2007, 02:17 PM
Very astute, Tony. They don't want the NCAA to impose their beliefs on UND but, UND wants to make all the schools they play "respect" the Sioux name and be politically correct. Do I have it summed up correctly? :-?

This is what the UND fan doesn't understand. If you want to keep the nickname, then accept the fact that people are going to say things like, "Sioux Suck" or even worse and don't bitch about it when it happens. If you don't want that because it would "dishonor" the Native American and you want to protect their feelings (which I don't think most UND fans really care about), then be proactive and get rid of the name so things like that don't happen. Problem is, they want it both ways.

Flanders
03-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Tony, why is it that you use the very large umbrella of "UND says" or "UND did" blah blah blah...you take a vocal minority and advance their beliefs and shove them down everyone's throats as if it's the poplular majority saying it. Sound familiar? It's what the NCAA is doing. You're wrong and you know it. I could care less if you yelled "Sioux Suck". And the same 5 people who get their panties in a twist when someone does yell "Sioux Suck" do not, DO NOT, DO NOT represent what "UND thinks" or what "UND fans think".

tony
03-08-2007, 06:03 PM
Tony, why is it that you use the very large umbrella of "UND says" or "UND did" blah blah blah...you take a vocal minority and advance their beliefs and shove them down everyone's throats as if it's the poplular majority saying it. *Sound familiar? *It's what the NCAA is doing. *You're wrong and you know it. *I could care less if you yelled "Sioux Suck". *And the same 5 people who get their panties in a twist when someone does yell "Sioux Suck" do *not, DO NOT, DO NOT represent what "UND thinks" or what "UND fans think".

I was writing about what UND's administration have said in the past and continues to say in the future.

All I'm saying is that before NDSU plays UND again, I would like UND's assurance that they will cease deflecting blame towards NDSU for their nickname problems. If you are correct and UND administration and alumni association have not used NDSU as a scapegoat, then you shouldn't have a problem with them reaffirming that position.


The infrequent incidents that occur largely involve the fans of opposing teams, most often at away games. This manifests itself in the wearing or chanting of inappropriate slogans, such as 'Sioux Suck.


Given all of the above, how then might we explain that there are those who oppose the use of the nickname “Fighting Sioux” and the use of the logo described above? While we do not fully understand the nature of the opposition by some to what the University considers to be respectful uses of the logo and the nickname, at least some of the opposition to the University’s use of the nickname has to do with the behavior of fans, particularly those of opposing teams. In the past, fans of opposing teams and, apparently, even some of our own, less-gifted, fans have worn T-shirts and made banners that went beyond respectful to the point of obscene. UND turns away all such fans and confiscates such offensive materials. We have not seen evidence of such behavior in recent years. Effective measures have also been taken at the schools of opposing teams.

If I had time, I could probably find a hundred other quotes from UND officials making NDSU fans out to be the problem. The one thing UND and nickname opponents seem to agree on is that NDSU is bad :)

I just don't think NDSU needs that kind of headache. Besides, it's a heckuva lot more fun playing teams whose mascots you can have a little fun with than playing a school that uses every contest as an excuse to claim victimhood.

Flanders
03-08-2007, 06:40 PM
UND doesn't have a mascot. Florida State has a mascot. The Belcourt Braves have a mascot. UND doesn't have a mascot. UND has a nickname and a logo created by a Native American.

Flanders
03-08-2007, 06:44 PM
Tony, why is it that you use the very large umbrella of "UND says" or "UND did" blah blah blah...you take a vocal minority and advance their beliefs and shove them down everyone's throats as if it's the poplular majority saying it. Sound familiar? It's what the NCAA is doing. You're wrong and you know it. I could care less if you yelled "Sioux Suck". And the same 5 people who get their panties in a twist when someone does yell "Sioux Suck" do not, DO NOT, DO NOT represent what "UND thinks" or what "UND fans think".

I was writing about what UND's administration have said in the past and continues to say in the future.

All I'm saying is that before NDSU plays UND again, I would like UND's assurance that they will cease deflecting blame towards NDSU for their nickname problems. If you are correct and UND administration and alumni association have not used NDSU as a scapegoat, then you shouldn't have a problem with them reaffirming that position.


The infrequent incidents that occur largely involve the fans of opposing teams, most often at away games. This manifests itself in the wearing or chanting of inappropriate slogans, such as 'Sioux Suck.


Given all of the above, how then might we explain that there are those who oppose the use of the nickname “Fighting Sioux” and the use of the logo described above? While we do not fully understand the nature of the opposition by some to what the University considers to be respectful uses of the logo and the nickname, at least some of the opposition to the University’s use of the nickname has to do with the behavior of fans, particularly those of opposing teams. In the past, fans of opposing teams and, apparently, even some of our own, less-gifted, fans have worn T-shirts and made banners that went beyond respectful to the point of obscene. UND turns away all such fans and confiscates such offensive materials. We have not seen evidence of such behavior in recent years. Effective measures have also been taken at the schools of opposing teams.

If I had time, I could probably find a hundred other quotes from UND officials making NDSU fans out to be the problem. The one thing UND and nickname opponents seem to agree on is that NDSU is bad :)

I just don't think NDSU needs that kind of headache. Besides, it's a heckuva lot more fun playing teams whose mascots you can have a little fun with than playing a school that uses every contest as an excuse to claim victimhood.


I can't believe I almost missed this nugget. If the same five people that bitch and whine about the nickname stop "claiming victimhood" as you put it, I can assure you that no one associated with UND will ever say another thing about NDSU's actions.

IowaBison
03-08-2007, 07:27 PM
UND doesn't have a mascot. Florida State has a mascot. The Belcourt Braves have a mascot. UND doesn't have a mascot. UND has a nickname and a logo created by a Native American.


::) ::) ::)

Flanders
03-08-2007, 07:51 PM
Sorry to bring facts into the discussion. I know that sucks for you.

insane_ponderer
03-08-2007, 08:04 PM
UND doesn't have a mascot. *Florida State has a mascot. *The Belcourt Braves have a mascot. *UND doesn't have a mascot. *UND has a nickname and a logo created by a Native American.

Hell if that's the case than you shouldn't have any problems changing your mascot when the time comes....which is soon. ;)

mikelsch
03-08-2007, 11:11 PM
Let's see, you first said that "no conference". *Then you hedged your bets and said "except the Great West". *Well, which is it? *UND doesn't have to change it's name. *Nobody has told them they have to change their name. *What exactly do you see as the problem? *Serious question.

I was perfectly clear with my statement. The Great West will take UND because they only have THREE teams remaining, they can't afford not to take them.

But no "all-sports" (Mid-Con, Big Sky) conference will take UND until they resolve their lawsuit with the NCAA. That would be a PR nightmare that the conference would not want to deal with.

You are right, UND doesn't have to change their name/mascot. They just can't host a NCAA tourney game...which in all practical purposes is hockey and football; or play in a NCAA tourney game on the road wearing the "offensive" logo.

GFBison
03-09-2007, 03:51 AM
UND doesn't have a mascot. *Florida State has a mascot. *The Belcourt Braves have a mascot. *UND doesn't have a mascot. *UND has a nickname and a logo created by a Native American.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source mas·cot (m[ch257]s'k[ch335]t', -k[ch601]t) *Pronunciation Key *
n. * A person, animal, or object believed to bring good luck, especially one kept as the symbol of an organization such as a sports team.

I suppose a logo could be the object that is the symbol of the Fighting Sioux. *A mascot.

Although not an official mascot, the dude who runs around the field with the sioux flag would qualify as a psuedo mascot. Then again maybe it's official since it's become a tradition, and he is allowed on the field where the casual fan isn't.

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 12:30 PM
was Sammy Sioux an unofficial mascot?

:P

tony
03-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Hehe, I admit it that I just got into this to twist some flickertail tails (and plus I like a debate every once in a while) and I doubt the nickname deal will stop NDSU from scheduling UND in the future. However, I can't believe any rationale person (which I guess excludes 90% of UND fans) cannot see why a school might look at the potential downside of scheduling UND and decide that it's not worth the risk - especially given UND's past behavior.

Contentions
--------------
1. UND has a tendency for grand-standing displays of political correctness at the expense of other schools.
2. This causes undeserved bad publicity for their opponents.
3. This is specifically true for NDSU.

Supporting arguments
--------------------------
1. There have been dozens of instances, when UND representatives complain about misuse of their mascot by opposing fans and NDSU is the most frequent target. BTW, I'm sure not happy seeing North Dakota tax dollars being used to present that particular argument on a national stage - defend the mascot if you have to but leave NDSU and other schools out of it.
2. Mesa State. They had some poor college student write a headline "Mavs Scalp Sioux" and there was a firestorm of indignation from UND but notice that the headline was "Mavs Scalp Sioux" not "Sioux Scalp Mavs". Good grief.
3. A comment of "Nice Afro" gets blown up into a national media story after Gene Roebuck uses a postgame interview to rail about it (I will be pretty darn surprised if Roebuck ever gets to coach against NDSU again because of this).
4. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and St. Cloud have all been attacked in the press by UND over the nickname issue. However, all these schools are doing is complying with the wishes of a lot of Sioux tribes. UND is ever eager to appease these "politically correct morons" every time it's somebody else's ox being gored but discount anything tribal councils say that they don't like.

Rebuttals From UND fans
-----------------------------
1. Flanders can't believe he missed the nugget about UND embracing the culture of victimhood (implying that it isn't true, I guess, or, that if it is true, that it is truer of NDSU than UND. Problem is that even if he were right (and he's not) it doesn't apply to any of my contentions.
2. UND doesn't have a mascot; UND only has a nickname. Again, doesn't rebutt any argument, it's just quibbling about peripheral details. It doesn't matter if it's just a nickname because whether it is a logo, mascot, or nickname, UND is still liable to go off on a politically correct blamefest on any school that makes the mistake of scheduling them. Besides, UND uses a Sioux warrior to market their sports teams, that makes it a mascot in my view.

Hehe, but my favorite part of this little debate was having a UND fan say, "I can assure you that no one associated with UND will ever say another thing about NDSU's actions." That is classic!

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 02:21 PM
I think I'll contact Gene Berry and push for a non-binding Faculty Senate resolution regarding playing teams with Native American mascots, logos......

Flanders
03-09-2007, 03:41 PM
I think I'll contact Gene Berry and push for a non-binding Faculty Senate resolution regarding playing teams with Native American mascots, logos......

North Dakota State Board of Higher Education might have something to say about that.

Flanders
03-09-2007, 03:50 PM
Hehe, I admit it that I just got into this to twist some flickertail tails (and plus I like a debate every once in a while) and I doubt the nickname deal will stop NDSU from scheduling UND in the future. However, I can't believe any rationale person (which I guess excludes 90% of UND fans) cannot see why a school might look at the potential downside of scheduling UND and decide that it's not worth the risk - especially given UND's past behavior.

Contentions
--------------
1. UND has a tendency for grand-standing displays of political correctness at the expense of other schools.
2. This causes undeserved bad publicity for their opponents.
3. This is specifically true for NDSU.

Supporting arguments
--------------------------
1. There have been dozens of instances, when UND representatives complain about misuse of their mascot by opposing fans and NDSU is the most frequent target. BTW, I'm sure not happy seeing North Dakota tax dollars being used to present that particular argument on a national stage - defend the mascot if you have to but leave NDSU and other schools out of it.
2. Mesa State. They had some poor college student write a headline "Mavs Scalp Sioux" and there was a firestorm of indignation from UND but notice that the headline was "Mavs Scalp Sioux" not "Sioux Scalp Mavs". Good grief.
3. A comment of "Nice Afro" gets blown up into a national media story after Gene Roebuck uses a postgame interview to rail about it (I will be pretty darn surprised if Roebuck ever gets to coach against NDSU again because of this).
4. Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and St. Cloud have all been attacked in the press by UND over the nickname issue. However, all these schools are doing is complying with the wishes of a lot of Sioux tribes. UND is ever eager to appease these "politically correct morons" every time it's somebody else's ox being gored but discount anything tribal councils say that they don't like.

Rebuttals From UND fans
-----------------------------
1. Flanders can't believe he missed the nugget about UND embracing the culture of victimhood (implying that it isn't true, I guess, or, that if it is true, that it is truer of NDSU than UND. Problem is that even if he were right (and he's not) it doesn't apply to any of my contentions.
2. UND doesn't have a mascot; UND only has a nickname. Again, doesn't rebutt any argument, it's just quibbling about peripheral details. It doesn't matter if it's just a nickname because whether it is a logo, mascot, or nickname, UND is still liable to go off on a politically correct blamefest on any school that makes the mistake of scheduling them. Besides, UND uses a Sioux warrior to market their sports teams, that makes it a mascot in my view.

Hehe, but my favorite part of this little debate was having a UND fan say, "I can assure you that no one associated with UND will ever say another thing about NDSU's actions." That is classic!




The problem you face in providing a rebuttal for someone other than yourself, is that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Nice try though. Point one: without the PC bullshit permeating the nickname issue, there would be no reason that anyone from UND would chastise NDSU or it's fans for their behavior. Get it? Why don't you spend your time trying to rid the situation of the real problem?

Secondly, taking blind quotes out of context makes you look very fraudulent. I would expect far more from a board moderator.

Finally, continued respect to the majority of the Bison faithful who see this nickname issue for what it really is. Thank you. Won't be forgotten in this corner.

Flanders
03-09-2007, 03:54 PM
I think I'll contact Gene Berry and push for a non-binding Faculty Senate resolution regarding playing teams with Native American mascots, logos......

That's really going to suck when the Florida State Seminoles call you for a football game in Tallahassee. Or when you face them in the NCAA BB tournament. They have a Native American mascot and logo. ;)

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 04:23 PM
I think I'll contact Gene Berry and push for a non-binding Faculty Senate resolution regarding playing teams with Native American mascots, logos......

North Dakota State Board of Higher Education might have something to say about that.

so what.

The Faculty Senate is an independent body. If the SBoHE said anything with force you'd see 1937 all over again.

(It's my opinion that the SBoHE has discredited themselves and embarrassed the state twice in the past decade because of this issue. If they tried to interfere with the independence of faculty.)

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 04:24 PM
I think I'll contact Gene Berry and push for a non-binding Faculty Senate resolution regarding playing teams with Native American mascots, logos......

That's really going to suck when the Florida State Seminoles call you for a football game in Tallahassee. Or when you face them in the NCAA BB tournament. They have a Native American mascot and logo. ;)

Yeah. I'll keep that in mind.

The 'resolution' would be similar that at other schools: no scheduling, will play in post-season tournaments (which are somewhat outside of the institution's control).


Also, I was being facetious.

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Why don't you spend your time trying to rid the situation of the real problem?


Good. It's agreed: UND will discard its nickname. :D

Flanders
03-09-2007, 04:31 PM
[ Why don't you spend your time trying to rid the situation of the real problem?


Good. It's agreed: UND will discard its nickname.



Does the old Indian head on the side of state patrol cars offend you? How about the Indian head on the highway signs? How about Sioux Falls? Or Sioux City? How abou the bois de Sioux river? How do you get out of bed each day? With all that offends you it must be hard. Or is just a UND thing? If it is, that could become a very slippery slope.

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 04:35 PM
Did I say any of that?

Flanders
03-09-2007, 04:38 PM
Not yet. That's why I asked.

Flanders
03-09-2007, 04:40 PM
BTW, NorthDakotaBison, why do you think the NCAA sells FIGHTING SIOUX merchandise on its website?

TaTonka_31
03-09-2007, 04:44 PM
The Double Standard issue is why I am whole heartedly behind UND's law suit. As long as the Washington Redskins, Atlanta Braves, Western Michigan Chippewa's, Florida State Seminoles and countless other pro, college and high school teams are to keep their traditions, I will be in UND's corner.

To have a few PC pin heads in a room somewhere decide who can keep their names and who can't is simply Boshevek. Besides, all these Native American names have in some cases 150 year old traditions behind them that were state intitutions feeble attempts to repect and honor the memories of the great Native American Cultures. Shouldn't these great nations be remembered for something more than running Gaming Establishments.

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 04:59 PM
I will note that, in general, I do not support the naming of sports teams after Native American peoples. First, in many cases it presents incorrect stereotypes. Second, the identity of a community of people is co-opted. Third, it provides a platform for the degradation of a people.

IMO, the first case does not apply to UND. The Sioux are represented in what I think is a historically accurate depiction. The use of Plains Indian dress by the Illinois (Chief Illiwinek) and Florida is incorrect, stereotypical, and offensive to me.

The second and third cases apply in some degree to all uses. When a Caucasian UND alumnus from Minto comes up to me and says, "I'm a (Fighting) Sioux and always will be," something is wrong. Sorry buddy, you're a strong supporter of your alma mater, not a Sioux. The guy probably has volumes of UND sports related trivia in his head, but couldn't tell much about the Sioux-maybe some reference to the Little Big Horn, Sitting Bull, or Crazy Horse-that's sad. Tony presented a good overview of the third case, although it should be noted that such behavior is not exclusive to external parties- an example from UND's recent history is Sammy Sioux.

Also, I agree (to some extent) with the standard set by the NCAA. Let those groups represented make the call. Some schools met this standard, many did not. One was foolish enough to begin litigation against the NCAA (note to UND: don't sh$t where you eat). (I don't think it's right for Seminole consent for a school in Florida to use their identity as a proxy to allow use of Plains Indian' motifs.)

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 05:01 PM
BTW, NorthDakotaBison, why do you think the NCAA sells FIGHTING SIOUX merchandise on its website?

How the heck would I know?

Flanders
03-09-2007, 05:14 PM
I will note that, in general, I do not support the naming of sports teams after Native American peoples. First, in many cases it presents incorrect stereotypes. Second, the identity of a community of people is co-opted. Third, it provides a platform for the degradation of a people.

IMO, the first case does not apply to UND. The Sioux are represented in what I think is a historically accurate depiction. The use of Plains Indian dress by the Illinois (Chief Illiwinek) and Florida is incorrect, stereotypical, and offensive to me.

The second and third cases apply in some degree to all uses. When a Caucasian UND alumnus from Minto comes up to me and says, "I'm a (Fighting) Sioux and always will be," something is wrong. Sorry buddy, you're a strong supporter of your alma mater, not a Sioux. The guy probably has volumes of UND sports related trivia in his head, but couldn't tell much about the Sioux-maybe some reference to the Little Big Horn, Sitting Bull, or Crazy Horse-that's sad. Tony presented a good overview of the third case, although it should be noted that such behavior is not exclusive to external parties- an example from UND's recent history is Sammy Sioux.

Also, I agree (to some extent) with the standard set by the NCAA. Let those groups represented make the call. Some schools met this standard, many did not. One was foolish enough to begin litigation against the NCAA (note to UND: don't sh$t where you eat). (I don't think it's right for the Seminole consent for a school in Florida to use their identity as a proxy vote to allow use of Plains Indian' motifs.)





If you consider the unofficial use of that character, 35 years ago, as RECENT history, then I guess I can see what your agenda is. I disagree with you on almost every single point.

IowaBison
03-09-2007, 05:16 PM
That's fine, I certainly respect people who do.


[I'm surprised by that my definition of recent history as the Vietnam Era to the present evokes such a reaction!]

IowaBisonToo
03-09-2007, 06:19 PM
[ Why don't you spend your time trying to rid the situation of the real problem?


Good. *It's agreed: *UND will discard its nickname.



Does the old Indian head on the side of state patrol cars offend you? *How about the Indian head on the highway signs? *How about Sioux Falls? *Or Sioux City? *How abou the bois de Sioux river? *How do you get out of bed each day? *With all that offends you it must be hard. *Or is just a UND thing? *If it is, that could become a very slippery slope.
Sioux City offends me. If you ever have been downtown Sioux City, you'd be offended, too - by the smell. ;D ;D ;D

Flanders
03-09-2007, 06:49 PM
Agreed. Been there too many times.

IowaBisonToo
03-09-2007, 07:00 PM
Actually, now that they've taken out the stockyards, it's not nearly as bad.

Hambone
03-09-2007, 09:20 PM
I will note that, in general, I do not support the naming of sports teams after Native American peoples. *First, in many cases it presents incorrect stereotypes. *Second, the identity of a community of people is co-opted. *Third, it provides a platform for the degradation of a people.

IMO, the first case does not apply to UND. *The Sioux are represented in what I think is a historically accurate depiction. *The use of Plains Indian dress by the Illinois (Chief Illiwinek) and Florida is incorrect, stereotypical, and offensive to me.

The second and third cases apply in some degree to all uses. *When a Caucasian UND alumnus from Minto comes up to me and says, "I'm a (Fighting) Sioux and always will be," something is wrong. *Sorry buddy, you're a strong supporter of your alma mater, not a Sioux. *The guy probably has volumes of UND sports related trivia in his head, but couldn't tell much about the Sioux-maybe some reference to the Little Big Horn, Sitting Bull, or Crazy Horse-that's sad. *Tony presented a good overview of the third case, although it should be noted that such behavior is not exclusive to external parties- an example from UND's recent history is Sammy Sioux.

Also, I agree (to some extent) with the standard set by the NCAA. *Let those groups represented make the call. *Some schools met this standard, many did not. *One was foolish enough to begin litigation against the NCAA (note to UND: don't sh$t where you eat). *(I don't think it's right for Seminole consent for a school in Florida to use their identity as a proxy to allow use of Plains Indian' motifs.)





Just a clarification question - so when people on here say "Once a Bison, always a Bison" or "Great day to be a Bison", do you literally take that to mean they are a four legged mammal? *Based on the logic used above, I'm assuming you would. * :D

56BISON73
03-09-2007, 10:07 PM
I will note that, in general, I do not support the naming of sports teams after Native American peoples. *First, in many cases it presents incorrect stereotypes. *Second, the identity of a community of people is co-opted. *Third, it provides a platform for the degradation of a people.

IMO, the first case does not apply to UND. *The Sioux are represented in what I think is a historically accurate depiction. *The use of Plains Indian dress by the Illinois (Chief Illiwinek) and Florida is incorrect, stereotypical, and offensive to me.

The second and third cases apply in some degree to all uses. *When a Caucasian UND alumnus from Minto comes up to me and says, "I'm a (Fighting) Sioux and always will be," something is wrong. *Sorry buddy, you're a strong supporter of your alma mater, not a Sioux. *The guy probably has volumes of UND sports related trivia in his head, but couldn't tell much about the Sioux-maybe some reference to the Little Big Horn, Sitting Bull, or Crazy Horse-that's sad. *Tony presented a good overview of the third case, although it should be noted that such behavior is not exclusive to external parties- an example from UND's recent history is Sammy Sioux.

Also, I agree (to some extent) with the standard set by the NCAA. *Let those groups represented make the call. *Some schools met this standard, many did not. *One was foolish enough to begin litigation against the NCAA (note to UND: don't sh$t where you eat). *(I don't think it's right for Seminole consent for a school in Florida to use their identity as a proxy to allow use of Plains Indian' motifs.)





There are Seminole Tribes in Oklahoma. PL

TransAmBison
03-09-2007, 11:02 PM
I will note that, in general, I do not support the naming of sports teams after Native American peoples. *First, in many cases it presents incorrect stereotypes. *Second, the identity of a community of people is co-opted. *Third, it provides a platform for the degradation of a people.

IMO, the first case does not apply to UND. *The Sioux are represented in what I think is a historically accurate depiction. *The use of Plains Indian dress by the Illinois (Chief Illiwinek) and Florida is incorrect, stereotypical, and offensive to me.

The second and third cases apply in some degree to all uses. *When a Caucasian UND alumnus from Minto comes up to me and says, "I'm a (Fighting) Sioux and always will be," something is wrong. *Sorry buddy, you're a strong supporter of your alma mater, not a Sioux. *The guy probably has volumes of UND sports related trivia in his head, but couldn't tell much about the Sioux-maybe some reference to the Little Big Horn, Sitting Bull, or Crazy Horse-that's sad. *Tony presented a good overview of the third case, although it should be noted that such behavior is not exclusive to external parties- an example from UND's recent history is Sammy Sioux.

Also, I agree (to some extent) with the standard set by the NCAA. *Let those groups represented make the call. *Some schools met this standard, many did not. *One was foolish enough to begin litigation against the NCAA (note to UND: don't sh$t where you eat). *(I don't think it's right for Seminole consent for a school in Florida to use their identity as a proxy to allow use of Plains Indian' motifs.)





Just a clarification question - so when people on here say "Once a Bison, always a Bison" or "Great day to be a Bison", do you literally take that to mean they are a four legged mammal? *Based on the logic used above, I'm assuming you would. * :D
I'm a Bison...take it however you want! ;D

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 12:44 AM
That $200K check that you collect from Central Michigan will be really neat!! ::) ;D ;D ;D

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 01:03 AM
That $200K check that you collect from Central Michigan will be really neat!! * ::) ;D ;D ;D

http://boifromtroy.com/archives/hypocritesblogadbase.JPG

;D ;D ;D ;D

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 02:11 AM
http://www.hcn.org/allimages/2006/feb06/graphics/060206-010.jpg

Some ne'er do wells from UND made t-shirts from this pic......my 6 year old son was very upset by this.....change your nickname and logo please.

SDbison
03-10-2007, 03:57 AM
I just want to puke after hearing some Bison fans get so riled up about this nickname / mascot thing. This Bison fan is all for UND winning their lawsuit against the NCAA. I might be pissed about what happened during the transition to DI, but I won't join in with the 10 - 15% of Bison fans that want UND to change their name. NDBison give it a break. Are you really that offended? I think you have bigger and better things to worry about. As long as there is a double standard about allowing some Indian names I will never respect the intentions of the NCAA. As for the Indians themselves, they need to look inward at resolving their numerous problems on the reservation. Eliminating a nickname is not going to make any of that better.

WePharm
03-10-2007, 04:02 AM
Using tribal groups as mascots and the refusal to change is simply about power. Who has it and who wants it. Up until a short time ago no one gave even lip service to what the tribes thought. I have always wondered why using a group of people as a symbol that has nothing to do what ever with our heritage made much sense. In my case it would have to do with being short, fat, bald, white and ugly! We may certainly respect the Sioux heritage as one of proud and individualistic warriors. The rub is projecting that on ourselves. We've never been them. Can't be them. Wichita State "Shockers", Nebraska "Cornhuskers", Notre Dame "Fighting Irish", St. Olaf "Oles" those are some names that both give us an identity and a reference to our heritage. I don't think United Tribes technical college in Bismarck ever thought of calling themselves the "Coaldiggers" or "Sodbusters". While these names have reference to heritage, in the case of tribal names there is also that racial undercurreent. Slight or not. Is this pc? Of course it is. Is it a bad thing that ALL of us can vote? Own property? Worship as we please? How about sports programs for your sisters & daughters? This is all pc on a much greater level. How about the great commandment- "Do unto others as I have done to you"-the ultimate in PC. That we should be discussing mascots instead of voting should make us feel very good on how far we've come!

Keeping a tribal group as a mascot is about marketing, making money and keeping a perceived identity. We fear change. We fear a loss of power. Legal challenges may make one feel good but in the end one of two things will happen. Someone(s) of vision and authority will say let's move on
or the pain of scheduling, conference affiliation and NCAA sanctions (loss of revenue) will demand it.

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 04:20 AM
Using tribal groups as mascots and the refusal to change is simply about power. Who has it and who wants it. Up until a short time ago no one gave even lip service to what the tribes thought. I have always wondered why using a group of people as a symbol that has nothing to do what ever with our heritage made much sense. In my case it would have to do with being short, fat, bald, white and ugly! *We may certainly respect the Sioux heritage as one of proud and individualistic warriors. The rub is projecting that on ourselves. We've never been them. Can't be them. Wichita State "Shockers", Nebraska "Cornhuskers", Notre Dame "Fighting Irish", St. Olaf "Oles" those are some names that both give us an identity and a reference to our heritage. I don't think United Tribes technical college in Bismarck ever thought of calling themselves the "Coaldiggers" or "Sodbusters". While these names have reference to heritage, in the case of tribal names there is also that racial undercurreent. Slight or not. Is this pc? Of course it is. Is it a bad thing that ALL of us can vote? Own property? Worship as we please? How about sports programs for your sisters & daughters? This is all pc on a much greater level. How about the great commandment- "Do unto others as I have done to you"-the ultimate in PC. That we should be discussing mascots instead of voting should make us feel very good on how far we've come!

Keeping a tribal group as a mascot is about marketing, making money and keeping a perceived identity. We fear change. We fear a loss of power. Legal challenges may make one feel good but in the end one of two things will happen. Someone(s) of vision and authority will say let's move on
or the pain of scheduling, conference affiliation and NCAA sanctions (loss of revenue) will demand it.

http://www.kitleyskrypt.com/images/psychobabble.jpg

I know that what my son was subjected to was not of a racial/nationality/ethnic origin....but nevertheless it created a hostile and abusive venue for us. The NCAA needs to better govern the environment in which athletic contests are conducted. I think there are special interest groups that will be very interested in hearing our story. I will keep all of you abreast of our progress in this fight to create the type of family-friendly atmosphere that we deserve at these NCAA sanctioned events.

WePharm
03-10-2007, 12:38 PM
Well, gee, I guess I don't know what pschobabble is but I do know what reality is. Reality is this issue that is sitting on UND's front porch and that is what people see. This problem is going to keep growing
and growing. Instead of the hockey, football and basketball teams, when one thinks of UND it will be
the nickname issue. Instead of quality academics it's the nickname issue. etc etc

IowaBison
03-10-2007, 01:11 PM
http://www.hcn.org/allimages/2006/feb06/graphics/060206-010.jpg

Some ne'er do wells from UND made t-shirts from this pic......my 6 year old son was very upset by this.....change your nickname and logo please.

Talk about a faulty parallel.

If I made a t-shirt with a dead Sioux with blood all around I would either lose my job or be sent to psychiatrist, be the subject of an FBI investigation, and probably see the story making the network news.

IowaBison
03-10-2007, 01:15 PM
I just want to puke after hearing some Bison fans get so riled up about this nickname / mascot thing. This Bison fan is all for UND winning their lawsuit against the NCAA. I might be pissed about what happened during the transition to DI, but I won't join in with the 10 - 15% of Bison fans that want UND to change their name. NDBison give it a break. Are you really that offended? I think you have bigger and better things to worry about. As long as there is a double standard about allowing some Indian names I will never respect the intentions of the NCAA. As for the Indians themselves, they need to look inward at resolving their numerous problems on the reservation. Eliminating a nickname is not going to make any of that better.

I voiced my conscience on the issue and how it was formed. There are certainly more important things in my life and in society that need to be dealt with.

I'm not so passionate about the issue that I'm going join the crusade. I took fifteen minutes over lunch to put in writing how I feel about the issue.

Mr._Bill
03-10-2007, 02:15 PM
http://www.hcn.org/allimages/2006/feb06/graphics/060206-010.jpg

Some ne'er do wells from UND made t-shirts from this pic......my 6 year old son was very upset by this.....change your nickname and logo please. *

Let's see *. . . what is the most benign mascot that I can think of . . . ah, the "Orange". *Do you suppose that if you took a picture of someone smashing an orange with a hammer, or throwing an orange at a school bus window, *that would also be upsetting to your 6 year old. *Those oranges can be terrible things. *Do you want to take that one to the NCAA on behalf of Syacuse?

I know that you want to blame everyone else and take all other mascots down with you, but I'm sorry. *You'll be going to court alone on this one. *

Let's see . . . Orange, Bison, Fighting Sioux (a fruit/color, an animal, a human being - minority group) . . . I don't think too many 6 year olds would get the multiple choice answer on that one wrong if asked which one is the most offensive to use as a sports mascot. *You have a very perceptive and sensitive 6 year old, why don't you ask him.

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 02:56 PM
http://www.hcn.org/allimages/2006/feb06/graphics/060206-010.jpg

Some ne'er do wells from UND made t-shirts from this pic......my 6 year old son was very upset by this.....change your nickname and logo please. *

Let's see *. . . what is the most benign mascot that I can think of . . . ah, the "Orange". *Do you suppose that if you took a picture of someone smashing an orange with a hammer, or throwing an orange at a school bus window, *that would also be upsetting to your 6 year old. *Those oranges can be terrible things. *Do you want to take that one to the NCAA on behalf of Syacuse?

I know that you want to blame everyone else and take all other mascots down with you, but I'm sorry. *You'll be going to court alone on this one. *

Let's see . . . Orange, Bison, Fighting Sioux (a fruit/color, an animal, a human being - minority group) . . . I don't think too many 6 year olds would get the multiple choice answer on that one wrong if asked which one is the most offensive to use as a sports mascot. *You have a very perceptive and sensitive 6 year old, why don't you ask him.

It was hypothetical of course, but I think this is the road we're headed down....I really do.

Mr._Bill
03-10-2007, 03:04 PM
No, we are not going down a road where fruits, colors and animals cannot be used as nicknames or mascots, as they are not human. *Yes, we are going down a road where human beings from minority groups will not be used as nicknames or mascots.

We can accept and respect that, or we can fight that. *Just another choice, like many things in this world. *I have my opinion, but do not stand in judgement.

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 03:15 PM
No, we are not going down a road where fruits, colors and animals cannot be used as nicknames or mascots, as they are not human. *Yes, we are going down a road where human beings from minority groups will not be used as nicknames or mascots.

We can accept and respect that, or we can fight that. *Just another choice, like many things in this world. *I have my opinion, but do not stand in judgement.

I respect your opinion, On Bison. *Get rid of them across the board....Seminoles, Runnin Utes, CHIPPEWAS!!, or none. I may not agree if that happened, but I could accept it. *However, this arbitrary and capricious manner in which some are "hostile and abusive" and others are not....cannot be allowed, and must be fought. *I suppose your cool with the $200,000 because Central Michigan is on the "accepted list"?

Mr._Bill
03-10-2007, 03:20 PM
No, we are not going down a road where fruits, colors and animals cannot be used as nicknames or mascots, as they are not human. *Yes, we are going down a road where human beings from minority groups will not be used as nicknames or mascots.

We can accept and respect that, or we can fight that. *Just another choice, like many things in this world. *I have my opinion, but do not stand in judgement.

I respect your opinion, On Bison. *Get rid of them across the board....Seminoles, Runnin Utes, CHIPPEWAS!!, or none. I may not agree if that happened, but I could accept it. *However, this arbitrary and capricious manner in which some are "hostile and abusive" and others are not....cannot be allowed, and must be fought. *


Agreed, I believe that day will come for all.

Shawn-O
03-10-2007, 03:27 PM
No, we are not going down a road where fruits, colors and animals cannot be used as nicknames or mascots, as they are not human. *Yes, we are going down a road where human beings from minority groups will not be used as nicknames or mascots.

We can accept and respect that, or we can fight that. *Just another choice, like many things in this world. *I have my opinion, but do not stand in judgement.

Fruits and vegetables will probably be ok. ;D Flowers are okay too. ;D Not so sure if animals will be okay....natural disasters is another one, the Miami Hurricanes could be very upseting.... :-?

Mr._Bill
03-10-2007, 03:34 PM
Anything outside of human beings will be fine as long as it's done in a respectful manner. I think that Cyclones and Hurricanes will be around for a long time as nicknames. If your mascot was the "Rabid Badgers", and your mascot was acting crazy and foaming at the mouth, the NCAA might have something to say.

Mr._Bill
03-10-2007, 03:48 PM
While the NCAA, I believe, would like to see all human being mascots and nicknames discarded, they are making exceptions where they believe the Nickname & the people that represent the Nickname are one and the same. *Yes, a slippery slope.

If Grand Forks were . . . all of the following, they would have no problems with the NCAA.

In the middle of a/the Sioux indian reservation
In the town of Grand Sioux Forks
With Sioux representation on the UND university board
Had prominent Sioux people connected to the university
Representing & benefiting Sioux interests
Had strong support of all Sioux people

Some of these things are being met at und, so it will be interesting how things play out. *What the NCAA doesn't want is a group of non-indian people using an Indian name with loose or no affiliation or support. *There is some affiliation at und, is it strong enough?

lakesbison
03-10-2007, 04:13 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


why do we at NDSU care? seriously. man. sooo boring and lame of a conversation that doesn't effect NDSU.

get over it.

Mr._Bill
03-10-2007, 06:59 PM
I guess I should ask your permission before I post, next time, you . . . "The Great and Wonderful Voice of all Bison Fans".

This is a nickname forum, your opinions are not welcome unless they are on topic.

TransAmBison
03-10-2007, 07:11 PM
Hey Tony, can we have a little guideline for Lakesbison or something??? I mean, he has no reason to even jump into this thread. He uses his bullying tactics, and I for one am thinking it is getting a little old. I'm not saying ban him again...but give him some defined borders of what is and isn't acceptable. Then ban his @$$.

Ideas for guidelines:

1. Lakes can basically rant all he wants in the smack section. Heck, give him his own little blog in there. Call it "Lakes Playground...Viewer Discretion Advised" :)

2. He must stay out of all civil conversations on other threads such as this one where he has nothing productive to say.

3. If he breaks the above rules, or any others set forth, he must write 50 times that he loves Gene Roebuck and Chuckie K, and thinks they are the greatest minds since...oh, say...Mike Mcfeeley. ;D

56BISON73
03-10-2007, 08:46 PM
Hey Tony, can we have a little guideline for Lakesbison or something??? *I mean, he has no reason to even jump into this thread. *He uses his bullying tactics, and I for one am thinking it is getting a little old. *I'm not saying ban him again...but give him some defined borders of what is and isn't acceptable. *Then ban his @$$. *

Ideas for guidelines:

1. *Lakes can basically rant all he wants in the smack section. *Heck, give him his own little blog in there. *Call it "Lakes Playground...Viewer Discretion Advised" :)

2. *He must stay out of all civil conversations on other threads such as this one where he has nothing productive to say.

3. *If he breaks the above rules, or any others set forth, he must write 50 times that he loves Gene Roebuck and Chuckie K, and thinks they are the greatest minds since...oh, say...Mike Mcfeeley. ;D

How many times has this moron been banned and he still hasnt learned to play well with others. Its obvious his main goal is to be as obnoxous as possible.
Get rid of him. PL

IowaBisonToo
03-10-2007, 08:46 PM
3. *If he breaks the above rules, or any others set forth, he must write 50 times that he loves Gene Roebuck and Chuckie K, and thinks they are the greatest minds since...oh, say...Mike Mcfeeley. ;D
That, TAB, is priceless! ;D ;D ;D He'd cut off his hand before he'd write those things.

TransAmBison
03-10-2007, 10:08 PM
3. *If he breaks the above rules, or any others set forth, he must write 50 times that he loves Gene Roebuck and Chuckie K, and thinks they are the greatest minds since...oh, say...Mike Mcfeeley. ;D
That, TAB, is priceless! ;D ;D ;D *He'd cut off his hand before he'd write those things.
;)

sambini
03-11-2007, 05:21 AM
my oh my

lakesbison
03-11-2007, 08:13 AM
whats your guy's [problem.. for real.

are you even NDSU BISON fans??

why do you insist on RIPPING on me and trying to bring me down here every thread or post??

are you closet UND fans?? I just BITCH and MOAN at you because some of you turn EVERY THREAD on an NDSU board into UND.. bla bla bla bla!!!!!


wow... soo pathetic.


I post alot of things on bisonville and i have inside info alot of times.. dont post about me!! *leave me alone!! * if I am SOOO popular that you get jealous and CALL FOR TONY to ban me.. then that is just plan lunacy!!!!

peace out and screw UND!

TheDoctor
03-11-2007, 09:23 AM
whats your guy's [problem.. for real.

are you even NDSU BISON fans??

why do you insist on RIPPING on me and trying to bring me down here every thread or post??

are you closet UND fans?? I just BITCH and MOAN at you because some of you turn EVERY THREAD on an NDSU board into UND.. bla bla bla bla!!!!!


wow... soo pathetic.

I post alot of things on bisonville and i have inside info alot of times.. dont post about me!! *leave me alone!! * if I am SOOO popular that you get jealous and CALL FOR TONY to ban me.. then that is just plan lunacy!!!!

peace out and screw UND!


"I don't know if you realize this, but I am kind of a big deal around here" Lakes B--I mean Ron Burgundy

" I am such a big deal that I created a thread to talk about my 1,000th post" Lakes Bison

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

TheDoctor
03-11-2007, 09:26 AM
Hey Tony, can we have a little guideline for Lakesbison or something??? *I mean, he has no reason to even jump into this thread. *He uses his bullying tactics, and I for one am thinking it is getting a little old. *I'm not saying ban him again...but give him some defined borders of what is and isn't acceptable. *Then ban his @$$. *

Ideas for guidelines:

1. *Lakes can basically rant all he wants in the smack section. *Heck, give him his own little blog in there. Call it "Lakes Playground...Viewer Discretion Advised" :)

2. *He must stay out of all civil conversations on other threads such as this one where he has nothing productive to say.

3. *If he breaks the above rules, or any others set forth, he must write 50 times that he loves Gene Roebuck and Chuckie K, and thinks they are the greatest minds since...oh, say...Mike Mcfeeley. ;D



Ah-frinken men to all of that as especially (because I am a fair guy ;)) to th highlighted part! ;)

TransAmBison
03-11-2007, 03:38 PM
whats your guy's [problem.. for real.

are you even NDSU BISON fans??

why do you insist on RIPPING on me and trying to bring me down here every thread or post??

are you closet UND fans?? I just BITCH and MOAN at you because some of you turn EVERY THREAD on an NDSU board into UND.. bla bla bla bla!!!!!


wow... soo pathetic.


I post alot of things on bisonville and i have inside info alot of times.. dont post about me!! *leave me alone!! * if I am SOOO popular that you get jealous and CALL FOR TONY to ban me.. then that is just plan lunacy!!!!

peace out and screw UND!
I'm not going to send you a PM so you can threaten to tell people what was really said. I can say it out in the open. I thought I had expressed a opinion in a humorous way to basically get the point across to you to lighten up. There are some threads you do not belong in. This one for example. You saw the title of the thread was about Firetruck's nickname. Stay out of it.

And, I have gotten quite tired of you telling everybody about how popular you are. Don't you realize YOU are the only one who thinks you are popular? You call people names if they don't agree with your "young" stance. People are either old, closet UND fans, small thinkers, hicks, plus other slams at people from rural North Dakota. You say a lot of things that wouldn't fly if you were talking face to face.

I have been trying to have a little fun with this. If you want this to get more serious we can debate more, but I feel it wouldn't be to your advantage...

IowaBison
03-11-2007, 03:43 PM
While the NCAA, I believe, would like to see all human being mascots and nicknames discarded, they are making exceptions where they believe the Nickname & the people that represent the Nickname are one and the same. Yes, a slippery slope.

If Grand Forks were . . . all of the following, they would have no problems with the NCAA.

In the middle of a/the Sioux indian reservation
In the town of Grand Sioux Forks
With Sioux representation on the UND university board
Had prominent Sioux people connected to the university
Representing & benefiting Sioux interests
Had strong support of all Sioux people

Some of these things are being met at und, so it will be interesting how things play out. What the NCAA doesn't want is a group of non-indian people using an Indian name with loose or no affiliation or support. There is some affiliation at und, is it strong enough?

What the NCAA set as its standard was approval from namesake tribes.

That's it.

Shawn-O
03-11-2007, 04:06 PM
While the NCAA, I believe, would like to see all human being mascots and nicknames discarded, they are making exceptions where they believe the Nickname & the people that represent the Nickname are one and the same. *Yes, a slippery slope.

If Grand Forks were . . . all of the following, they would have no problems with the NCAA.

In the middle of a/the Sioux indian reservation
In the town of Grand Sioux Forks
With Sioux representation on the UND university board
Had prominent Sioux people connected to the university
Representing & benefiting Sioux interests
Had strong support of all Sioux people

Some of these things are being met at und, so it will be interesting how things play out. *What the NCAA doesn't want is a group of non-indian people using an Indian name with loose or no affiliation or support. *There is some affiliation at und, is it strong enough?

What the NCAA set as its standard was approval from namesake tribes.

That's it. *

The NCAA deemed Illinewek as "hostile and abusive"...but there is no namesake tribe to approve or disapprove of Illinewek, so your statement is wrong.

TXBison_Fan
03-11-2007, 04:17 PM
I think UND is going to have to change. They are the NCAA's whipping boy and they want one school to push around. Once the NCAA sets it's mind to a case there is no turning back. I might call for a change of venue however because the judge might be a UND grad. Also, Ralph's dead and there is no one to bail them out now. And not playing Goldy and Bucky is going to hurt big time in the recruiting. How many recruits brought up the UM game when talking about the Bison?

How bout the UND fighting puckheads. or the UND overweight frat losers. (Derick Slovak, what a disaster)

IowaBison
03-11-2007, 04:18 PM
My comment was in reference to On Bison's comments regarding things that would help UND.

None of his points matter, imo. If UND had the approval of Spirit Lake and Standing Rock they would be on the approved list.

TheDoctor
03-11-2007, 04:45 PM
whats your guy's [problem.. for real.

are you even NDSU BISON fans??

why do you insist on RIPPING on me and trying to bring me down here every thread or post??

are you closet UND fans?? I just BITCH and MOAN at you because some of you turn EVERY THREAD on an NDSU board into UND.. bla bla bla bla!!!!!


wow... soo pathetic.


I post alot of things on bisonville and i have inside info alot of times.. dont post about me!! *leave me alone!! * if I am SOOO popular that you get jealous and CALL FOR TONY to ban me.. then that is just plan lunacy!!!!

peace out and screw UND!
I'm not going to send you a PM so you can threaten to tell people what was really said. *I can say it out in the open. *I thought I had expressed a opinion in a humorous way to basically get the point across to you to lighten up. *There are some threads you do not belong in. *This one for example. *You saw the title of the thread was about Firetruck's nickname. *Stay out of it.

And, I have gotten quite tired of you telling everybody about how popular you are. *Don't you realize YOU are the only one who thinks you are popular? *You call people names if they don't agree with your "young" stance. *People are either old, closet UND fans, small thinkers, hicks, plus other slams at people from rural North Dakota. *You say a lot of things that wouldn't fly if you were talking face to face.

I have been trying to have a little fun with this. *If you want this to get more serious we can debate more, but I feel it wouldn't be to your advantage...



;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lakesbison
03-11-2007, 07:09 PM
Im not attacking people Im just stating a FACT that I cant come onto a dam NDSU BISON message board without every dam thread involving SOME OF YOU talkin about UND

makes me wonder whether you are true NDSU fans..

its pathetic

so RIP on me all you want, attack me b1son and 56bisonPL you do it every freakin post to me. so Im used to it.


Bottom line of 90% of my rants is QUIT POLLUTING a NDSU board with the UND talk.... its embarassing and sad!!! our AD and coaches have moved on, why cant some of you fans.

theres plenty of people that PM me and even state the same facts as I am lying out here.

just the loud 2-3 doesnt mean your right.. hell.. IM LOUD and Im not claiming to be RIGHT!!

im done addressing certain people... BUT Im not done addressing this issue of polluting the NDSU board

thebluehatman
03-11-2007, 07:33 PM
Someone needs to take the sauce away from this angry bitter man and show him the love he didn't receive as a child.

NDSUstudent
03-11-2007, 07:44 PM
Lakes no matter how much you want to do it you will never be able to earse the 100+ years of rivalry NDSU has had with UND. It is foolish to even try, if people want to talk about it let them do it. I agree it can get annoying but it is just as annoying having to listen to your rants about why the two shouldn't play or that nobody should even talk about it.

56BISON73
03-11-2007, 08:02 PM
Im not attacking people *Im just stating a FACT that I cant come onto a dam NDSU BISON message board without every dam thread involving SOME OF YOU talkin about UND

makes me wonder whether you are true NDSU fans..

its pathetic

so RIP on me all you want, attack me b1son and 56bisonPL *you do it every freakin post to me. *so Im used to it.


Bottom line of 90% of my rants is QUIT POLLUTING a NDSU board with the UND talk.... *its embarassing and sad!!! *our AD and coaches have moved on, why cant some of you fans.

theres plenty of people that PM me and even state the same facts as I am lying out here.

just the loud 2-3 doesnt mean your right.. hell.. IM LOUD and Im not claiming to be RIGHT!!

im done addressing certain people... BUT Im not done addressing this issue of polluting the NDSU board

If this venue is not to your liking then you need to find a venue that meets your needs. Nobody here will complain if you dont come back here. As a matter of fact many will applaud .PL ;D ;D ;D ;D

Shawn-O
03-11-2007, 09:13 PM
He got what he wanted again....deflecting attention to himself and away from a legitimate discussion. >:(

TransAmBison
03-11-2007, 09:18 PM
I was actually a little serious about lakes having a thread of his own in smack. He can voice whatever opinion he wants. I think that would be pretty cool...if it was contained in there. It wouldn't litter each thread, but we could choose to read his banter if we want, when we want. I'll admit it, sometimes I am interested in what he has to say...but I would like to have the choice.

I'm even thinking of having one thread in smack as my own...you know...filling in enough recordings for an album ;)