Sick of hearing about lawsuit

[Bison_Dan]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=160396&section=news

I see Ralph is still running und from the grave. :o

[tcbison]

Bison Dan,
I am curious why it says Probation: Can't stop talking about UND under your name?

[Bison_Dan]

Bison Dan,
*I am curious why it says Probation: Can't stop talking about UND under your name?

I think this thread "News about other schools" is where this topic should go. It made the front page of the Forum, and it's news.

[tcbison]

I am not accusing you of anything, just asking a question. I haven't seen anyone else have that under their name.

[Bison_Dan]

I am not accusing you of anything, just asking a question. I haven't seen anyone else have that under their name.

I'm use to being tormented; you should hear what my wife has to say.

[TheBisonator]

I still can't get over the fact the guy was a Nazi. Pissed me off the first time I heard it.

[IowaBisonToo]

170 people donating at just over $100 each for a lawsuit run by the state and not the school :(. *Frivalous? *Maybe. Still not quite sure how I feel about the whole thing. Although, I find it disgracful that a single family can impose so much power over an instituition of higher learning and to top it off, that said institution allowed themselves to be manipulated the way they were.

[kchats]

Not only the university the Board of Higher Education. Nothing looks worse than voting to unanimously support the school to the north keeping the nickname and logo the day after they receive a threatening letter from Englestad. After bowing to Englestad then they had no choice but to allow the school to the north to sue.

[NorthernBison]

The subject of the lawsuit and the nickname/logo controversy have been debated ad nauseum. I wouldn't even try to debate it or try to change any opinions about it because nobody is open to change there.

We do need to keep a little perspective here though. Dan is right when he says it is news. The Forum and GF Herald will continue to follow the story and keep us updated. Why? Because a lot of people care.

Ralph was not a Nazi. Ralph was rich, opinionated, egotistical, and maybe a little bigoted in some ways. He was also quite generous to his alma mater and his hometown. He had a certain fascination with WWII memorabilia just like a lot of people. He made a couple huge mistakes with the parties on Hitler's birthday and he acknowledged them. Rich and powerful people often forget that they can't just say what they want without repercussions.

This vendetta and judgement mentality among some of my fellow Bison fans charging that UND is corrupt and being run by the Engelstads is IMHO wrong. The Engelstad family probably has been able to wield some influence over some things at UND because of their generosity. That happens at every institution where large donors are giving money.

Here's where we sometimes go too far: The Lawsuit is not being run by Engelstads and the decision to keep the name is not only due to Ralph. The actions of the University mirror the will of the majority of UND fans, boosters, alumni and students. Let's try to remember that. I, like most Bison supporters, often take pleasure in bashing UND. I won't ever stop doing it but I try to at least try to be fair in my criticism.

[RodentiaX1]

UND fans may support the nickname, but Englestead threatening to shut down the hockey arena if UND changed the nickname is just plain extortion. Collecting WWII memorabilia is one thing, but throwing birthday parties for Hitler is another thing entirely.

[NorthernBison]

UND fans may support the nickname, but Englestead threatening to shut down the hockey arena if UND changed the nickname is just plain extortion. *Collecting WWII memorabilia is one thing, but throwing birthday parties for Hitler is another thing entirely.

I agree with you on both points. Just remember that the decision to keep the name was made by the State Board of Higher Education and not by UND. It may sound like splitting hairs but it isn't.

Ralph did hold several parties on Hitler's birthday and even made some comments that were way out of left field regarding Hitler. He was wrong and admitted it. I just pointed out that Ralph was not a Nazi. That goes too far and is something we should never do.

I stand by my assertion that the University in Grand Forks is not being run by the Engelstads. By far, the overwhelming majority of people who are tied to UND support the fight against the NCAA. My personal opinions on whether they are right or wrong are immaterial. UND is fighting the NCAA because their alumni, students, fans, etc. feel that they should. I can respect that.

[RodentiaX1]

Throwing birthday parties for Hitler makes you look at least a lot like a Nazi sympathizer. An apology doesn't impress me, that's just what people do when they get caught.

[NorthernBison]

Throwing birthday parties for Hitler makes you look at least a lot like a Nazi sympathizer. An apology doesn't impress me, that's just what people do when they get caught.

I can't really argue with that statement. I'm not a Ralph apologist. He had some faults like anybody else. I chalk up some of his ravings to the delusions of an old man. I have a father in his 90's who sometimes says some things which, if taken literally, would drive the lefties crazy. I don't take them seriously.

[kchats]

UND fans may support the nickname, but Englestead threatening to shut down the hockey arena if UND changed the nickname is just plain extortion. *Collecting WWII memorabilia is one thing, but throwing birthday parties for Hitler is another thing entirely.

I agree with you on both points. *Just remember that the decision to keep the name was made by the State Board of Higher Education and not by UND. *It may sound like splitting hairs but it isn't.

Ralph did hold several parties on Hitler's birthday and even made some comments that were way out of left field regarding Hitler. *He was wrong and admitted it. *I just pointed out that Ralph was not a Nazi. *That goes too far and is something we should never do.

I stand by my assertion that the University in Grand Forks is not being run by the Engelstads. *By far, the overwhelming majority of people who are tied to UND support the fight against the NCAA. *My personal opinions on whether they are right or wrong are immaterial. *UND is fighting the NCAA because their alumni, students, fans, etc. feel that they should. *I can respect that.


Not only did Englestad extort the university he also extorted the Board of Higher Education. *Nothing looks worse than voting to unanimously support the school to the north keeping the nickname and logo the day after they receive a threatening letter from Englestad. *After bowing to Englestad then they had no choice but to allow the school to the north to sue.

He also had a large picture of himself in a Nazi uniform with a signature that basically showed admiration for Hitler in his office. His apology was hollow.

[NorthernBison]

Just so we're clear here, KC you underlined, highlighted and bold printed your comment like you think I totally misunderstand this situation. Most of what you said in that paragraph is also what I said. The exception being UND's involvement in this particular decision. Chuck never got to make a public decision on the nickname issue because the SBOHE made it for him and the University.

As for Ralph's Hitler crap, I totally agree that he was off the wall there and so do most reasonable people. Bringing that crap into discussions about UND, the nickname issue, the arena, and whatever else about UND is just wrong. It taints the issues and is irrelevant. UND has never supported Ralph's views about Hitler.

[Shawn-O]

Just so we're clear here, KC you underlined, highlighted and bold printed your comment like you think I totally misunderstand this situation. *Most of what you said in that paragraph is also what I said. *The exception being UND's involvement in this particular decision. *Chuck never got to make a public decision on the nickname issue because the SBOHE made it for him and the University.

As for Ralph's Hitler crap, I totally agree that he was off the wall there and so do most reasonable people. *Bringing that crap into discussions about UND, the nickname issue, the arena, and whatever else about UND is just wrong. *It taints the issues and is irrelevant. *UND has never supported Ralph's views about Hitler.

What is this? *A voice of reason? *In BISONVILLE?? *Must...sit down....feeling woozy.....**KLUNK***.

Northern Bison, their hatred of "the school up north" clouds rational thinking. *Your very well reasoned posting will fall on deaf ears here. *

[Mr._Bill]

Just so we're clear here, KC you underlined, highlighted and bold printed your comment like you think I totally misunderstand this situation. *Most of what you said in that paragraph is also what I said. *The exception being UND's involvement in this particular decision. *Chuck never got to make a public decision on the nickname issue because the SBOHE made it for him and the University.

As for Ralph's Hitler crap, I totally agree that he was off the wall there and so do most reasonable people. *Bringing that crap into discussions about UND, the nickname issue, the arena, and whatever else about UND is just wrong. *It taints the issues and is irrelevant. *UND has never supported Ralph's views about Hitler.

What is this? *A voice of reason? *In BISONVILLE?? *Must...sit down....feeling woozy.....**KLUNK***.

Northern Bison, their hatred of "the school up north" clouds rational thinking. *Your very well reasoned posting will fall on deaf ears here. *

No, who would support his view on Hitler. But it hasn't stopped said school from taking his money and following his wishes to the letter. You don't pick and choose when you apply your core principles and beliefs, do you?

[NorthernBison]

Just so we're clear here, KC you underlined, highlighted and bold printed your comment like you think I totally misunderstand this situation. *Most of what you said in that paragraph is also what I said. *The exception being UND's involvement in this particular decision. *Chuck never got to make a public decision on the nickname issue because the SBOHE made it for him and the University.

As for Ralph's Hitler crap, I totally agree that he was off the wall there and so do most reasonable people. *Bringing that crap into discussions about UND, the nickname issue, the arena, and whatever else about UND is just wrong. *It taints the issues and is irrelevant. *UND has never supported Ralph's views about Hitler.

What is this? *A voice of reason? *In BISONVILLE?? *Must...sit down....feeling woozy.....**KLUNK***.

Northern Bison, their hatred of "the school up north" clouds rational thinking. *Your very well reasoned posting will fall on deaf ears here. *

No, who would support his view on Hitler. *But it hasn't stopped said school from taking his money and following his wishes to the letter. *You don't pick and choose when you apply your core principles and beliefs, do you?

Shawn-O you might be surprised that I would tend to disagree with the nickname supporters but I would prefer to keep that discussion free of all the peripheral crap that has nothing to do with the discussion. Actually I blame Strinden and Baker for not solving the problem a long time ago. That's a whole different discussion.

On Bison, I think your comment is too simplistic and implies the school is somehow going against its core beliefs. I don't think that is the case. It could be that they truly believe that their use of the nickname and logo is not hostile and abusive, that they do a lot for NA people, and that they received permission from the closest tribe to continue use of the name when Spirit Lakes passed their resolution. I don't think the school has ever taken a position other than that. Their real fight is with the NCAA. Now I think I need to take a shower because I just defended UND.

[Mr._Bill]

I made a comment about the school taking $100 million dollars from a guy like Ralph and what he stands for, not about the Sioux nickname. *My only point, it appears they will take whatever stand is necessary to get Ralph's money. Incuding fight a battle that they might not otherwise fight.

[kchats]

Kupchella was thinking of changing the nickname until Ralph threatened him.

[NorthernBison]

Kupchella was thinking of changing the nickname until Ralph threatened him.

I think you have that correct. I believe that he indicated in some email correspondence that he was leaning that way. Pretty sure that I saw it in a news report. That might have triggered Ralph's letter but we will most likely never know all of the details.

[IowaBisonToo]

Just so we're clear here, KC you underlined, highlighted and bold printed your comment like you think I totally misunderstand this situation. *Most of what you said in that paragraph is also what I said. *The exception being UND's involvement in this particular decision. *Chuck never got to make a public decision on the nickname issue because the SBOHE made it for him and the University.

As for Ralph's Hitler crap, I totally agree that he was off the wall there and so do most reasonable people. *Bringing that crap into discussions about UND, the nickname issue, the arena, and whatever else about UND is just wrong. *It taints the issues and is irrelevant. *UND has never supported Ralph's views about Hitler.

What is this? *A voice of reason? *In BISONVILLE?? *Must...sit down....feeling woozy.....**KLUNK***.

Northern Bison, their hatred of "the school up north" clouds rational thinking. *Your very well reasoned posting will fall on deaf ears here. *

No, who would support his view on Hitler. *But it hasn't stopped said school from taking his money and following his wishes to the letter. *You don't pick and choose when you apply your core principles and beliefs, do you?
You do, when it come to that kind of money! And I'm not just talking about UND. There are many, many people on this board, myself probably included :'(, that would follow the wishes of an individual/entity in order to get their hands on $100MM if it meant waffling on some of their own beliefs. That kind of money doesn't come along every day much less every 50 years or so if ever. I've seen it occur in the company I work for. The owners claim to be very moral people yet will screw their mother if it means putting another $10 in their own pockets. That's human nature.