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View Full Version : "Dr." Mitch McLeod Needs to be FIRED!!!



DI-16goldbrick
04-08-2005, 07:00 PM
First off, I did have the "pleasure" of playing for Mitch. During my years in the program, it was clear to me and the other players that Mitch was not a good coach. At best he was a mediocre DII coach, and he definitely has no business coaching at the DI level. In an interview this week Mitch said he was "baffled" after UND beat NDSU, a game which they were ouplayed, outcoached and outclassed. He has always been baffled when it comes to baseball, but now he has publicly admitted it. He doesn't do a good job recruiting and can't evaluate talent. He's had some success, (little if any can be credited to him), because he was lucky to have some talented players and upperclassmen that took control and provided leadership for the team. With that success, there has also been a history of inconsistency and underachievement that he can take credit for. He runs a program that lacks discipline and structure and combine that with his lack of credentials and credibility as a coach, it really is a joke. Over the years, Mitch's team's regularly get beat in games they should win, by lesser talented teams that are better coached. It is frustrating as a player when your coach is letting you and your team down because he doesn't care enough about what he is doing and doesn't want to do anything to correct problems that directly affect the outcome on the field.

To take a look at this year, even at the DI level the Bison have been in games they could have won, and would've won with a better coach. NDSU baseball has a chance to be competitive to an extent at the DI level, but not with Mitch McLeod as the coach.

ballboy
04-08-2005, 07:44 PM
Amen Brother!! 1 Conference Title in 12 yrs. He has no idea how to run a bullpen, teach hitting, or defense. If my team consistently had 4 or more errors a game I'd be hitting them grounders till midnite. This team lacks motivation and leadership and that starts with the good "Dr." on down. No way he was ready for D1...

JBB
04-08-2005, 10:24 PM
I dont know anything about this coach but I do think an endowment should be built to assure good salries and the best coaches possible. They are faculty and they are teaching. I also feel that NDSU should commit itself to funding higher salaries across the board for all professors.

RedRiver
04-08-2005, 10:54 PM
Let's see how they finish the season!

silkamilkamonico
04-08-2005, 11:10 PM
first off, I don't know jack $hit about baseball, but can NDSU really compete with any DI? There is no way they can recruit with teams down south because of the weather, and baseball isn't even a focused sport within the university.

Someone sell me of my ignorancy, and explain why and how NDSU can compete!

Pedro
04-09-2005, 03:34 AM
Our critics contridict themselves. NDSU won last season so he had good players or he coached them up. So either he recruited good players or he can coach. I like the freshman players.

The reality is that chronic losing creates issues be them real or imagined. No one playing on an athletic team is entitled to anything, being a representative and wearing the uniform is reward enough. If a player doesn't like it they can quit or transfer somewhere else.

Competing in any sport as an independent is difficult. Any real success will not occur until a conf. affiliation is arranged.

This merely displays the amount of difference between D1/D2/NAIA and the obstacles to be overcome.

D1 will have a common start date of March 1st within the next three years, that with league membership will help.

Bison_Kent
04-09-2005, 11:04 AM
I agree with Pedro. Last year's team had a number of senior and this year is sort of a rebuilding year. Lets give Mitch a little time to get acclimated to DI.

The game I saw in Kansas State was one where NDSU was compeating well with the Wildcats but had a couple of errors and bad pitches to allow K-State to win 11-5.

In looking at the starting lineup, I think there were five freshman in it.

sambini
04-09-2005, 06:12 PM
come on people give the man a chance. it takes time and it wasn't not long ago we were playing on a makeshift field were the dome is now. we have not been a baseball tradition school. let mitch build his program.

Gamehunter
04-09-2005, 06:12 PM
I dont know anything about this coach but I do think an endowment should be built to assure good salries and the best coaches possible. They are faculty and they are teaching. I also feel that NDSU should commit itself to funding higher salaries across the board for all professors.

It's being worked on; can only do one step at a time.....

JBB
04-09-2005, 07:20 PM
first off, I don't know jack $hit about baseball, but can NDSU really compete with any DI? *There is no way they can recruit with teams down south because of the weather, and baseball isn't even a focused sport within the university. *

Someone sell me of my ignorancy, and explain why and how NDSU can compete! *

We can play baseball outside. We can work on all of our techniques inside and then play outside. Cold weather baseball is played in a lot of places. Cold weather players dont get as much field time but there are a lot of them in the pros.

Who cares if we lost most of our games this yr. It was a tough season but it was only our first in Division I. I thought we had a great schedule and I hope we can play most of those teams again. Im sure we can at least hope for five hundred ball in five yrs?

dtdfb33
04-10-2005, 01:34 AM
I played for McLeod a few years ago and the man has ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT being a collegiate coach at any level, let alone D1. He treats the position as if it was a 9 to 5 job, never going the extra mile to do what it takes to win, let alone win consistently. He doesn't have the slightest idea how to recruit and his past players have proven it. Many of names you see at the top of Bison record books were lightly recruited walk-ons.

This program has the potential to be a Northern power if it had the right man to lead it. NDSU needs to recruit outside of the extreme upper midwest because the talent pool is simply not deep enough and we can't survive just off of guys the Gophers weren't interested in. I know the weather sucks but the school has a lot of other things going for it like an exceptional facility, a competitive schedule and a large fan base. These would be an inticing sell for many kids who wind up lost in the endless talent pool down south, back east, or out west.

I think its gonna be hard to get a serious highly talented D1 ball players to sign on with such a bonehead as McLeod because they would see right through him.
The potential is there but it needs guidance and Mitch definently isn't the man.

During my time at SU our practice would consist of playing catch for 5 minutes, infielders take 5 minutes of groundballs, outfielders 5 minutes popfliesand then about 2 hours of on-field batting practice that usually turns into home run derby with absolutely nothing productive taking place. No time was spent on situational aspects or the mental part of the game which seperates the excellent from the mediocre. The reason for this is that Mitch knows nothing about either.

If this school has any seriousness in fielding a competitive program at the D1 level then this guy needs to go. And thats the bottom line.

silkamilkamonico
04-10-2005, 03:36 AM
*I know the weather sucks but the school has a lot of other things going for it like an exceptional facility, a competitive schedule and a large fan base.


I've seen a little bit of one game and there was absolutely nobody at the game. I might be wrong but I don't think the baseball interest for NDSU in this area is very high, especially with the Redhawks and the NDSU basketball program's, the majority of the sports fans in this area seem ot take the spring off from fanbasing.

TheTruth
04-10-2005, 03:39 AM
I agree on McLeod. He's no good at all.

With the situation he's had at SU, he should've won many NCC titles.

Tuk
04-10-2005, 08:39 AM
Perhaps we could recruit #33??

http://www.nlfan.com/fargo/cards/simunic00.jpg

WYOBISONMAN
04-10-2005, 02:20 PM
Hmmmm.......sounds like a change man be in order..

bisongold
04-10-2005, 04:02 PM
I'm sure there are performance goals in place that have reasonable expectations for the D-1 transtion. If these are not met, a change should be made. From my viewpoint, it all starts with the coach. If teams are consistantly not performing, the next step is that everyone starts making excuses for the losing ways. When this stage is reached, a change of coach is in order to rejuvenate the program. Professional owners don't hesitate to change coaches, neither should colleges. It is part of the business. The tolerance for losing decreases as one moves up the coaching ladder.

Pedro
04-10-2005, 06:55 PM
Sounds like a witch hunt to me. One title in 12 years and it was in the 12th season. D1 transition is going to take 5-7 years.

To play .500 with the current schedule you are going to need a budget of $15,000-$25,000 to evaluate and recruit athletes. (no time for teaching)

Where is that going to come from? 4.5 scholarships is way short if you are to recruit out of the area.

Tony LaRussa couldn't fix this season

dtdfb33
04-10-2005, 11:32 PM
Sounds like a witch hunt to me. One title in 12 years and it was in the 12th season. *D1 transition is going to take 5-7 years.

To play .500 with the current schedule you are going to need a budget of $15,000-$25,000 to evaluate and recruit athletes. (no time for teaching)

Where is that going to come from? 4.5 scholarships is way short if you are to recruit out of the area.

Tony LaRussa couldn't fix this season

Pedro if you really believe this guy has any right to any college baseball coaching position you are oblivious. You're talking about recruiting budgets and scholarships as if they influence this guys coaching skills and baseball knowledge. Sure with the right guy that kinda stuff would be useful discussion. The bottom line is that Mitch is a guy who knows nothing about the game and what it takes to win at a high level. He's an amateur team coach in a D1 job. I'd say probably 95% of the guys in the program leave here having very little if any respect as Mitch for a coach. It's inexcusable when most of the players have more baseball knowledge than the head coach. This guy needs to resign or be canned.

kchats
04-10-2005, 11:35 PM
Pedro if you really believe this guy has any right to any college baseball coaching position you are oblivious. *You're talking about recruiting budgets and scholarships as if they influence this guys coaching skills and baseball knowledge. *Sure with the right guy that kinda stuff would be useful discussion. *The bottom line is that Mitch is a guy who knows nothing about the game and what it takes to win at a high level. *He's an amateur team coach in a D1 job. *I'd say probably 95% of the guys in the program leave here having very little if any respect as Mitch for a coach. *It's inexcusable when most of the players have more baseball knowledge than the head coach. *This guy needs to resign or be canned.


You said you played for Mitch, what did you do to improve yourself? Were you on scholarship? Did you put in the extra effort to make yourself a winning player? Somethings a coach can help but other things the players need to do on their own.

dtdfb33
04-10-2005, 11:47 PM
Yeah I was on scholarship and played one season here then transferred to a very sucessful D2 down south. I was a starter and put up good numbers here and there. Like I said before the guy doesn't do what it takes to win. If you believe he does then it shows you don't know jack about baseball. Next time save your breath and don't make a post questioning my credibility.

kchats
04-11-2005, 12:02 AM
Yeah I was on scholarship and played one season here then transferred to a very sucessful D2 down south. *I was a starter and put up good numbers here and there. * Like I said before the guy doesn't do what it takes to win. *If you believe he does then it shows you don't know jack about baseball. *Next time save your breath and don't make a post questioning my credibility.

Are you still playing? How long ago were you a Bison? Did you leave because of Mitch or the move to division I?

dtdfb33
04-11-2005, 12:24 AM
I left because I wanted to win the national championship and play serious baseball. I achieved both. Here we couldn't even come close to making the regionals. The move to D1 means nothing for quality of baseball. There are many D2 and NAIA teams that would smoke the bottom 2/3's of D1 and play right along side those major conference teams from the Big 12 and SEC. The NCC and DAC-10 are two or the worse D2 and NAIA baseball conferences in the country.

kchats
04-11-2005, 12:42 AM
I left because I wanted to win the national championship and play serious baseball. *I achieved both. *Here we couldn't even come close to making the regionals. *The move to D1 means nothing for quality of baseball. *There are many D2 and NAIA teams that would smoke the bottom 2/3's of D1 and play right along side those major conference teams from the Big 12 and SEC. The NCC and DAC-10 are two or the worse D2 and NAIA baseball conferences in the country.

Why did you go to NDSU in the first place then? Seems like you made a horrible mistake.

mikelsch
04-11-2005, 04:10 PM
Back on the subject...NDSU needs a new baseball coach and more financial support from the administration. Hopefully Mitch will resign before the AD has to make his first coach firing.

greenandgold01
04-11-2005, 04:25 PM
Perhaps this is why the top recruits are drafted out of high school and go right away to the pros.

College baseball simply isn't to the MLB what college football and basketball are to the NFL and NBA.

D
04-11-2005, 04:55 PM
There are deeper reasons for the struggles of Bison baseball then just Mitch McLeod. Recruiting in this neck of the woods is not an exact science. The talent in the area is limited. The lakes area and St. Cloud area produces good players every year, but those places are no so much under the radar like they were 5-10 years ago. Coaches have to bring in guys who they perceive as projects. A 6-5 pitcher who is only in the upper 70's in HS is a good guy to take a chance on because what if he puts on 25 lbs and puts 10 mph on his fastball. The flipside is that that same player may not make any prgress at all, and often that ends up being the case. It is tough to get in on JUCO talent because, perhaps in baseball more then any other sport, the JUCOs are ranks are mined and sifted through by all the schools. The weather certainly doesn't help. Practicing indoors for 2 and a half months (Jan-March/April) gets so old and monotinous, it really wears on a guy. There is only so much that can be done. The high end D1 teams are loaded with guys who have been drafted, even sit some of those guys. Up here, we have none. Basically, coaches can make or break themselves on guys who could be considered wild cards, and if those wild cards do not turn out, fortunes could turn. However, I can say that had Todd Sather not been injured, Bison baseball the past 5 years would have been completely different. Arm injuries are another thing coaches have to compete with up here, cold weather + pitching = arm problems.

Pedro
04-11-2005, 05:08 PM
I merely see this as a few disgruntled people starting a shark frenzy. There is a fine line between stirring up the pot and encroaching upon someone's well being. When the line is crossed, it is convienent to hide anonymously.

mikelsch
04-11-2005, 06:46 PM
Welcome to the DI world. Either you are successful or get replaced. There is no room for bad coaches and half-motivated efforts at this level.

This is a bigger issue than Mitch McLeod. NDSU has to decide if it wants to have a competitive baseball team or not. If if doesn't (as during DII), then keep Mitch. If it does, put forth the resources and build the program, including hiring a new coach.

DI-16goldbrick
04-11-2005, 06:48 PM
There isn't a witch hunt or a shark frenzy going on. The facts speak for themselves. In my years playing for Mitch, the majority of the team was unhappy with his lack of coaching abilities. This wasn't a creation of my imagination. Almost from day one and especially after the season progessed my first year, seniors and upperclassmen openly told freshmen and other younger players that Mitch doesn't have a clue. These people were highly beloved by Mitch and were some of the better players that have played at NDSU. It was clear that easily over 90% of the players wished they had a different coach.

Over the years Mitch has had some talented players, but not because he recruited hard. NDSU gets a lot of players because of the school, not just for the athletics.
That is not my opinion, but rather what players and other coaches say too.

I can also think of at least a handful of players that left NDSU because of how Mitch runs his progam, and a couple of those players went on to have oustanding seasons at other Universities. Because Mitch doesn't know how to run a structured and disciplined program lots of problems develop, mainly inconsistency and underachievement. If coaching was supposed to be a 9-5 job and you didn't need any commitment to your team, Mitch would be in high demand at all the top programs in the country. When I was playing, things would have been even more chaotic had it not been for seniors and upperclassmen. They provided the only leadership in the years I played.

I actually know a few of the players on this years team, and it sounds like Mitch is still in the same fog, if not even worse. Mitch has a young team this year because at least 3 or 4 returning players and upperclassmen had enough of Mitch's program and didn't return. I think a couple went to play elsewhere while the others straight up quit. It also sounds like Mitch's approval rating with the players is at an all time low. It sounds like the general consensus is that they have had enough and if they have a say he would be gone right now.

I don't know where some people dream up things, but when it sounds like pretty much the whole team wants a coach fired, along with many former players, to me that adds up to a whole lot more than a few disgruntled people.

ballboy
04-12-2005, 06:35 AM
Pedro.. Nobody is trying to put McLeod out of a job, so dry your eyes. The record is clear.. 1 Conference Title in 12 years at the DII level, and another losing season this year. Granted, it was certainly understood that we would not go undefeated this first year, or the next, etc.etc. But your missing the point of the entire thread.. Dr. McLeod is not the coach to take this University to the next level even with 11.70 scholarships. I mean no disrespect, but he's NAIA at best. Listen to past players comments... get a clue. Have you ever played the game?

jeffdaryl3rd
04-12-2005, 07:01 AM
dtdfb33, while you may think that Mitch McLeod has "absolutely no right" to coach college baseball, I think you should probably stop talking about baseball and get the hell off this messageboard because you are a f**king idiot. That many of the school record holders were walk-ons underscores the problem with northern baseball--any player worth recruiting is either a project that comes out of nowhere or ends up playing at the U. As for this season, Mitch had to sign and play a bunch of freshmen because he has no budget to allow him to sign juco players and he lost two first team all region players after last season. How would you have done against the best players in the country as a true freshmen? (see game vs. Mizzou f/top starting pitcher in the country). The growing pains the team is experiencing were expected and unavoidable, so get off the man's back. Additionally, the team was as bad or worse for numerous years before Mitch got here and he basically put this team on the map. Finally: Just because some of you guys signed to play at NDSU and realized once you showed up that the coach couldn't make you into Bonds or Schilling and that you might actually have to get up off your asses and that Mitch wasn't going to hold your hand to make you do what you should be doing on your own, doesn't make it his fault you fizzled.

bison_baseball
04-12-2005, 10:24 PM
OK fella's...I agree and I disagree with alot of what you guys have said.
First of all: *the doctor has no direction when it comes to recruiting. *He brings you into the school and shows you the stadium...that's about it! * But it's not like the guy has 12 banners hanging from the roof to brag about! *I know I'm contradicting myself by saying he doesn't have much to offer and he sucks at doing it...but most of you who have been recruited by Mitch know what I'm talking about.
Now, *as for a head coach. *He sucks....plain and simple. *He has no discipline with the team. *We had guys coming to practice or warming up for games without even the proper BP gear on. *Did he say something....no! *Was I allowed as a senior to say something....damn straight, *but as a pitcher I had to worry about my job and not what everybody else was doing! * We had roadtrips where guys were drunk on the bus, *didn't Mitch discipline them? *Nope...they were his stars. *
The guy doesn't have much to work with, *the school doesn't back baseball at all. *Hell, you look at the basketball team who eats at Olive Garden on home game nights and gets it paid for by the school....and then you look at the baseball team eating pizza and Wendy's on the road cause that's all they can afford. *I guess if our AD was dating the headcoach like Lynn, *then maybe things would be different for baseball! *

DI-16goldbrick
04-12-2005, 10:35 PM
No one ever said that the transition to DI would be a quick or easy one, except I guess for Mitch. I heard some of this years players say that Mitch expected the team to be 15 games over .500, that this years team was the most talented he's ever had, and that they would've walked through the NCC this year. I'm a big believer in setting high goals, but that's just talking ridiculous. Mitch can't possibly think this team is more talented than the ones in his two best seasons, '96 and '04. They couldn't beat UND and have only beaten up on two teams that are maybe better than an average high school team. This years team certainly has had some opportunities to win some close games. Good coaches figure out how to win close games, and find a way to win games with marginal talent.

Finally, no one ever expected Mitch to hold anyone's hand or be a miracle worker, but there are certain responsibilities that come with being a coach and to think otherwise is irrational. I know for a fact that the successful players under Mitch were successful because they worked hard on their own time, outside of practice. If you're playing for Mitch and think you'll become a better player by just going to his practices and doing what he says, you might as well get in line to watch hell freeze over. I can honestly say that many high schools have more productive practices than what Mitch runs, and they do that with less time, space, and talent. In a lot of ways Mitch encouraged players to be lazy and slack off when I played. Mitch would never discipline people for being late, not staying on task or working hard, or anything for that matter. If anything was said it was usually by upperclassmen.

You can't make any excuses for how he runs his program, and that is the crux of this whole issue. If a coach isn't held responsible for any duties or expectations to players or the university, they might as well give Mitch a more accurate and fitting title like chaperone, or playground supervisor.

kchats
04-13-2005, 03:41 AM
*Deleted because it was offensive



This is a little over the top. *I find it very offensive. *

silkamilkamonico
04-14-2005, 01:05 AM
*I guess if our AD was munching on the head coach like Lynn, *then maybe things would be different for baseball! *




Is there a story behind this? I'm curious?!!

kchats
04-14-2005, 04:12 AM
Is there a story behind this? *I'm curious?!!

It doesn't belong on this board if there is one. >:(

BisBison
04-14-2005, 04:43 AM
OK f *I Deleted because it is offensive *


This is WAY out of line. It has no place in any fan message board.

bison_baseball
04-15-2005, 04:41 PM
I apologize the my loyal SU supporters, I do have to admit it was a little over the top and uncalled for....I guess I was just a little fired up over the poor support NDSU gives to baseball, compared to what they give out to other sports. I do understand that baseball doesn't have the fan base or report card like the other sports at SU but it hard to build a dynasty with little to no financial support.
And yes there is a story behind the comment, but it doesn't need to be told here.

tony
04-15-2005, 07:20 PM
Fine, you realized you were over the line, now please edit your post so I don't have to.

NDSU might be able to build more local fan support if the baseball season gets extended into the warmer months a bit.

randomsportsfan
04-18-2005, 03:10 PM
Whether or not Mitch needs to be fired, one thing is for certain--Mike Skogen needs to be fired. Seriously, he has never played college baseball and has no coaching experience at the college level except at NDSU, so what is he doing as an assistant coach at a division 1 program? I understand that the team has a limited budget, but I'd like to think they could at least pick up a coach with no experience who, say...has played some college baseball. From the stories I've heard it sounds like most of the players don't really take this guy seriously anyway. So whether Mitch stays or goes, get rid of this guy.

bison_baseball
04-18-2005, 03:38 PM
Skogen is like one of the boys, and thats why nobody takes him serious. He'd honestly be a great coach at some DIII school, but not at the DI level. He's a great guy, don't get me wrong but he doesn't belong at SU anymore. He's put in alot of time, on and off the field....alot more time the Mitch ever does at the field. And I'd hate to see him go, but I do agree.

ballboy
04-18-2005, 11:32 PM
Smooth move by Skogen to hand the ball to a freshman when we had a 6-4 lead in the 6th. No pressure there I guess.. he didn't even have Wagner warming up. If it wasn't for the shitty coaches and all the errors, we should of taken both games Sunday. No way would Monty give the ball to that reliever in a situation with 2 men on base with no outs, especially when some of the top pitchers had fresh arms. Of course Mcleod missed all the action... he was snoozen on the bus. They should of let the team just coach themselves.

bison_baseball
04-19-2005, 03:08 PM
What happened to the Doctor? *Did he get booted a 'la Tweet or what? *It's embarassing right now to even admit that I played for this program!

DI-16goldbrick
04-19-2005, 09:47 PM
As sad as it sounds, right now Skogen is probably an asset to the baseball program under Mitch, but that also indicates the problems with the baseball program. He actually does a lot of behind the scenes stuff, reservations, ordering, etc. He does all of the stuff Mitch is too lazy to do and without Skogen things would even be more of a mess than they are now. As far as being a legitimate assistant coach with baseball knowledge and credibility, it's a lot like trying to get corvette performance from a geo metro. The players deserve a lot more than they are getting from their coaches especially at the D1 level, maybe with the exception of Montgomery, at least he has some credibility.

JACKGUYII
04-19-2005, 11:21 PM
I think NDSU has placed so much emphasis/money and scholarships on football and it's bound to have an effect on the underfunding of the other programs.

kchats
04-19-2005, 11:29 PM
I think NDSU has placed so much emphasis/money and scholarships on football and it's bound to have an effect on the underfunding of the other programs.

NDSU has upped scholarships in all of their sports. Where do you see them limiting scholarships? They upped wrestling, men's basketball, women's basketball, volleyball, etc. I know you all think we only fund football but they all had increases. The only limiting factor was probably title IX in the men's basketball program has a couple fewer scholarships than the women's team. Yes it was important to get football up to 63 scholarships quickly so we can play a division I-A team for a big pay day and exposure but we didn't do it at the expense of the other programs. Football didn't have quite a big a jump as the other programs, although track and field is showing their leap wasn't too big for them. The other programs will improve as they recruit better athletes. Money is not the reason they are struggling. NDSU is trying to raise money to renovate the BSA, the baseball team plays in a great stadium. It's not money it is the type of players we currently have are not what is necessary to win in division I consistently on the programs that are struggling.

Jeffdaryl3rd
04-20-2005, 12:54 AM
Mike has definitely earned his keep at this program. He certainly puts in more time than he needs to for however much it is we pay him, and it can't be much. I agree that he could be a very good DIII coach, but I think that until he decides to leave the program he should probably be allowed to stay at NDSU. And by the way, Mitch did get tossed earlier in the game on sunday and Mongo was away tending to family matters, thus putting Skogs in charge.

bison_baseball
04-20-2005, 03:10 PM
Skogs has earned his keep at SU, he's been with the program for over 6 years and wasn't getting paid to do what he does until this year. He does all of Mitch's grunt work, ordering equipment, booking games and probably even whipping his ass for him when he shits. The guy is a great guy, and a good friend of mine. I'd like to see him however get his shot as a head coach at a small school. For those of you that have played in the last 10 years, he's a heck of a lot better than Vido!

OCBison
04-20-2005, 08:35 PM
Come on. How about allowing the guy to be a full-time coach and then see what he can do? Name one other head coach at NDSU that is also teaching a full course load? There isn't one.

Baseball isn't a priority at NDSU, hasn't been a priority at NDSU and never will be a priority at NDSU. When they make the position of head baseball coach full-time is when they'll begin making it a priority.

As for this statement "Yes it was important to get football up to 63 scholarships quickly so we can play a division I-A team for a big pay day and exposure but we didn't do it at the expense of the other programs. "

What sort of crack are you smoking man? The whole move to DI was at the expense of the other sports.

bison_baseball
04-20-2005, 09:55 PM
Full course load, come on man! Have you ever attended one of the Doctor's classes? I'm suprised Skogen doesn't just teach them for him!

kchats
04-20-2005, 11:20 PM
All the other sports had their scholarships increased too. The main thing NDSU needs to do is give the scholarships to athletes that have division I talent. The list in the paper over the weekend indicated scholarship increases for almost all sports.

Jeffdaryl3rd
04-22-2005, 05:24 AM
All the other sports had their scholarships increased too. *The main thing NDSU needs to do is give the scholarships to athletes that have division I talent. *The list in the paper over the weekend indicated scholarship increases for almost all sports.
I don't think this is getting through to you--all sports had scholarships increased, but football got/is getting increased to the full alotment while others are not. This allows them to sign the best players they can draw to fargo. Many other sports, on the other hand, cannot sign players even if they like ndsu, because they are getting offered twice as much money by schools with a full allotment of scholarships.

mikelsch
04-22-2005, 04:13 PM
The higher profile sports are fully funded: football, m/w basketball, volleyball. Wrestling, soccer, softball are almost full and will be full soon. The other sports: baseball, m/w golf, m/w track and field/cross country will take a few more years.

kchats
04-23-2005, 03:24 AM
Remember there is title IX that has to be satisfied as well. They can't up everything to the limits without adding a sport for the women. I still contend the Bison teams that have struggled so far would be better if the athlete they gave the scholarship to was more of a division I athlete. The football team has recruited borderline division I-AA talent for quite a few years and division I-AA isn't as big a jump as division I is for all the other teams.

Hager780
04-23-2005, 06:50 AM
[quote author=kchats link=board=misc;num=1112983220;start=45#53 date=04/22/05 at 21:24:37]Remember there is title IX that has to be satisfied as well. *They can't up everything to the limits without adding a sport for the women. *I still contend the Bison teams that have struggled so far would be better if the athlete they gave the scholarship to was more of a division I athlete. *The football team has recruited borderline division I-AA talent for quite a few years and division I-AA isn't as big a jump as division I is for all the other teams.[/quote

I still haven't had it explained to me how the FB team adds 20+ schollys with NO significant additions to womens sports and we're still in title IX compliance???

Hager780
04-23-2005, 06:51 AM
this WILL BE a problem....

DIBISON
04-23-2005, 06:59 AM
No, it won't be a problem, NDSU has professional and competent administrators in the athletic department.

Bisonguy
04-23-2005, 07:19 AM
Remember there is title IX that has to be satisfied as well. *They can't up everything to the limits without adding a sport for the women. *I still contend the Bison teams that have struggled so far would be better if the athlete they gave the scholarship to was more of a division I athlete. *The football team has recruited borderline division I-AA talent for quite a few years and division I-AA isn't as big a jump as division I is for all the other teams.[/quote

I still haven't had it explained to me how the FB team adds 20+ schollys with NO significant additions to womens sports and we're still in title IX compliance???


Cut out the 'we' schtick. We know "stand-ups" aren't your thing, but it's time you remove the Bison facade. It's worn and old. Actually, it was worn and old the first time you tried it on here.

ballboy
04-24-2005, 01:04 AM
This thread has been hijacked.. these comments have nothing to do with the subject...

runtheoption
04-28-2005, 03:10 PM
Maybe I should start a new thread, but oh well...

I read in the Star Tribune today that the Gopher's signed Kyle Carr out of Linton. Said he is a lefty with his fastball clocked at 90-91 mph. Great for him, but too bad for NDSU. This is the type of player that the Bison need to keep in-state. ND is not exactly a hot bed for DI baseball prospects, so when there is one, we gotta get 'em.

D
04-28-2005, 04:14 PM
Maybe I should start a new thread, but oh well...

I read in the Star Tribune today that the Gopher's signed Kyle Carr out of Linton. *Said he is a lefty with his fastball clocked at 90-91 mph. *Great for him, but too bad for NDSU. *This is the type of *player that the Bison need to keep in-state. *ND is not exactly a hot bed for DI baseball prospects, so when there is one, we gotta get 'em.

I can tell you first hand that that 90-91 is complete BS. He will get drafted though, and it may be in the middle rounds, which in baseball is pretty damn good $$. To be honest , though, I would take Fargo North grad and Bison FR pitcher Jake Laber over Kyle Carr anyday. Kyle Carr projects better because he is 6-5 and rail thin, but Jake Laber throws just as hard, if not harder, has a very good hammer, and also throws wrong-handed. The Bison got a good player there, but it may take him 'til next year to get adjusted.

runtheoption
04-28-2005, 04:34 PM
Sounds like you have seen Kyle play. Like you said though, being 6'5'', he could fill out and become a dominant, overpowering pitcher.

ballboy
04-28-2005, 04:49 PM
Yeah, well one can assume that the good "Dr." hasn't a clue as to whom Kyle Carr or Jake Laber are. As far as he knows there's only 2 pitchers on this team....

NDSU_grad
04-28-2005, 05:29 PM
I can tell you first hand that that 90-91 is complete BS. *He will get drafted though, and it may be in the middle rounds, which in baseball is pretty damn good $$. *To be honest , though, I would take Fargo North grad and Bison FR pitcher Jake Laber over Kyle Carr anyday. *Kyle Carr projects better because he is 6-5 and rail thin, but Jake Laber throws just as hard, if not harder, *has a very good hammer, and also throws wrong-handed. *The Bison got a good player there, but it may take him 'til next year to get adjusted.


Even if his fastball is mid-80's he'd get drafted just because he's a leftie.

bison_baseball
04-28-2005, 08:05 PM
Nowadays, lefty's are a dime a dozen. The chances of him getting drafted when he only throws in the mid 80's are slim to none! Look at Mike Peschel, that kid dominated the NCC and was never drafted. He was a lefty and only threw in the mid 80's! Where's your theory now????

tophatfan
04-28-2005, 11:51 PM
Yeah, well one can assume that the good "Dr." hasn't a clue as to whom Kyle Carr or Jake Laber are. As far as he knows there's only 2 pitchers on this team....

This may be off the subject a little, but don't put quotes around the Dr. prefix, Dr. Mitch McLeod did earn his Phd and is deserving of the title.

D
04-29-2005, 06:01 AM
Even if his fastball is mid-80's he'd get drafted just because he's a leftie.


Sad but true. Just like Jeremy Horst from Des Lacs, been drafted the last 2 years, out of HS and after his first year at Iowa Western (where he threw roughly 30 innings), and I'm sure will get taken again this year. Tops out at 84-85 but is 6-4 and 250. Oddly enough, he was taken by the Pirates, Don Hansen's current team. Jake Laber is beter then Horst though also.

The reason Mike Peschel never got his shot was his size and history, it masked everything he did on the field, and quite unfairly. Facts are, he is thought of as a risk as a short lefty with a history of arm trouble.

IowaBison
04-29-2005, 01:50 PM
This may be off the subject a little, but don't put quotes around the Dr. prefix, Dr. Mitch McLeod did earn his Phd and is deserving of the title.


Actually, I wonder if Mitch didn't earn an Ed.D. in which case the quotation marks may be appropriate ;)

ballboy
04-29-2005, 06:50 PM
I'll put my quotation marks where I want and you can put your commas where you want. As long as he prefers to be addressed as "Dr." Mitch McLeod then so be it. At least it's not "Dr. Coach Mitch Mcleod Ph.D" By the way anyone can put in the time to earn a Ph.D, but that doesn't mean they necessarily deserve it. Look up the word philosophy in your dictionary. I could find nothing pertaining to the good "Dr." Now look up the word tenured. Great picture of Mitch eh?

Jeffdaryl3rd
04-30-2005, 03:32 AM
Nowadays, *lefty's are a dime a dozen. *The chances of him getting drafted when he only throws in the mid 80's are slim to none! * *Look at Mike Peschel, *that kid dominated the NCC and was never drafted. *He was a lefty and only threw in the mid 80's! *Where's your theory now????
As has been said earlier, Mike was a victim of having a couple arm injuries otherwise he would have been drafted or signed by a MLB team as a free agent, ala Jeremiah Piepkorn. He definitely has the stuff and the bulldog attitude required. As regards Jake Laber, I play catch with him everyday and I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever played with someone that has as good of raw "stuff" as he does. As he showed against the U of M, he can throw gas and he has a filthy, filthy hook. If he can control the changeup he is working on (also pretty dirty) and get a bit more consistent with his mechanics, he could be scary good. As is he is still a good pitcher and I'll take a guy with proven stuff over some tall guy with "potential" anyday.

ballboy
05-01-2005, 04:10 PM
JD3rd... The tall guy with potential has gone to a school with a winning program where he will be developed and brought along accordingly... the lad with the raw "stuff", who throws gas and is filthy with the hook will never have that chance with the present staff. Yes, I know it's not up to the good "Dr." to hold his hand and make him do the extras that it takes to be a consistent, smart pitcher. But a little guidance, knowledge and direction in the art of pitching couldn't hurt. The Gophers can provide that and more.

JackBison
05-28-2006, 06:59 PM
does the good "Dr" still need to be fired?
i wonder if he is any better than he used to be? cant be much worse
i saw 2 games this year against creighton. the bison were competitive. in fact they should have won at least 1 of those games but they had trouble running the bases. their 3rd base coach turned a few runs into outs and left others stranded when they should of scored. really dumb stuff.
and no, the "Dr" was not the 3rd base coach that day. the bison had some little sawed off guy coaching 3rd base.
key questions for 2007, will the "Dr" be back? will the schedule lighten up some? will the bison improve their base running/coaching?

Sticks
05-30-2006, 02:10 PM
I left because I wanted to win the national championship and play serious baseball. *I achieved both. *Here we couldn't even come close to making the regionals. *The move to D1 means nothing for quality of baseball. *There are many D2 and NAIA teams that would smoke the bottom 2/3's of D1 and play right along side those major conference teams from the Big 12 and SEC. The NCC and DAC-10 are two or the worse D2 and NAIA baseball conferences in the country.

Now I believe it might be you that doesn't know jack about baseball. *The "full" NCC (Auggie, UND, NDSU, SCSU, SDSU, USD, UNO, MSU, UNC, Morningside) was one of the most respected and competitive conferences in the country, and this was only 5-6 years ago. Up until this past season, it has stayed competitve and richly loaded with talent...so you apparently didn't hang around long enough to realize this (or you didn't cut it....NDSU has had some pretty solid teams in the recent past).

lakesbison
05-30-2006, 02:43 PM
should solidfy Mitch for next year.... I mean Tony Larussa wouldve been 15-40 with that team..... Mitch was 11-43 or whatever....

played MUCH MUCH better at end of the year..

Shouldve won at Metrodome to sweep Minnesota.. Could've pulled out a win vs Crieghton (world series team???? perhaps??)

Minnesota is on a roll right now...

I saw improvements.... next year's goals should be to ELIMINATE all losses vs teams of similar caliber or below..

If you do that.. you get to 500.. i believe..........


Mitch should be evaluated after Next year with his recruits and he STILL hasnt signed all his MINNESOTA boys yet..

...

Sticks
05-30-2006, 04:36 PM
It looks like this thread has been the cause of a couple people losing their privileges...way too funny! * * ;D

I do agree with the fact that Mitch doesn't belong in a DI program....to be honest, I never thought he belonged in DII. *I also agree with the comment that he was dealt this situation (DI transition), and it is gonna be a rocky one.

However...this still is no excuse for the lack of baseball knowledge that is "Dr." McLeod. *I have heard guys comment on the fact that they liked his hitting philosophies, and maybe there's some integrity to that, but the rest of the game of baseball seems like a myth to him (for all the reasons that have previously been stated in this thread). *These guys couldn't be more "right on" when they speak of recruiting also. *Guys like Mike Peschel, Todd Sather, and Jason Bruske "fell" into his lap. *There was no pursuit of these guys...they were good enough to play DII baseball, were right in the "Dr.'s" backyard, and still had to seek out NDSU......sad.

I think most of his on field problems stemmed from the fact that he instilled NO discipline in his players.....which was a product of the lack of respect that they had for him, which was a product from his lack of baseball knowledge, which ruined his credibility with the guys. *If you're a solid DI prospect (or even a mediocre one) do you want to be told how to swing the bat, or field a ground ball from a guy you don't respect? *If you don't think he's got anything intelligent to say, are you gonna listen to him? *I sure as hell wouldn't

I'll just reiterate what's been said about 70 times already on this thread: *If NDSU wants to be competitive in the sport of baseball, Mitch has to be replaced. *Somebody see if Mongo's interested in being a head coach.

mikelsch
05-30-2006, 05:03 PM
I would think that he has another year or two to figure out how to be successful in DI (recruiting, scheduling, etc). A coach can't win only 10 or 13 games in a season and expect to return each year. This year's team did improve over the season and had its bright spots. A conference home in the Mid-Con would help a lot to improve the schedule and create some stablility.

tony
05-30-2006, 05:15 PM
It looks like this thread has been the cause of a couple people losing their privileges...way too funny! * * ;D


You know, maybe you should try knowing what you are talking about before you say something like that, Katohtr. Nobody has been banned this year. However, that may change. Up until this point, I hadn't been following this thread. Now I am following it, and I will certainly consider suspending people without warning if there is any more remotely personal stuff posted here. I don't mean you can't say what a crappy coach McLeod is - that's OK - any other crap that even whiffs of gossip is not.

outsidelookin
05-31-2006, 04:07 AM
Creighton World Series team? They didn't make the NCAA tournament. Creighton was a great team in 1991

Sticks
05-31-2006, 02:40 PM
It looks like this thread has been the cause of a couple people losing their privileges...way too funny! * * ;D


You know, maybe you should try knowing what you are talking about before you say something like that, Katohtr. Nobody has been banned this year. However, that may change. Up until this point, I hadn't been following this thread. Now I am following it, and I will certainly consider suspending people without warning if there is any more remotely personal stuff posted here. I don't mean you can't say what a crappy coach McLeod is - that's OK - any other crap that even whiffs of gossip is not.

Take it easy Tony, just speculating. Kinda coincidental that there are now 3 ex-members, and 2 of them had posts on the this thread that were either edited by you or them--kinda weird how I drew that conclusion eh?

Sticks
05-31-2006, 02:43 PM
I would think that he has another year or two to figure out how to be successful in DI (recruiting, scheduling, etc). *A coach can't win only 10 or 13 games in a season and expect to return each year. *This year's team did improve over the season and had its bright spots. *A conference home in the Mid-Con would help a lot to improve the schedule and create some stablility. *

Stability in schedule or not--it doesn't change Mitch's knowledge and style of coaching. I agree that things might not be so helter-skelter with an actual conference, but it really doesn't solve the problems that NDSU baseball is having from an administrative level.

broke_back_mnt
05-31-2006, 02:46 PM
I dont think you know what your talking about. 8-)

Sticks
05-31-2006, 02:52 PM
I dont think you know what your talking about. * 8-)

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got em--and they all stink! *You're no exception...but I think I've got a little more baseball knowledge then you my friend. Administrative from a COACHING standpoint....nothing to do with AD or something.

broke_back_mnt
05-31-2006, 02:59 PM
Your crude. 8-)

Sticks
05-31-2006, 03:34 PM
Your crude. * 8-)

That should be y-o-u apostrophe r-e

....and why am I crude? I just think that they could make a change at the head coach position and have better results....that's all.

broke_back_mnt
05-31-2006, 04:04 PM
Thank you, you are absolutely correct. Your language is crude. It takes away from the legitimacy of your argument. Puts you in a poor light. If opinions are so easily dismissed yours is long forgotten.

I think Mitch is doing a fine job on limited resources. Certainly there is no crisis in BISON Baseball. Your expert opinion aside, my confidence is with the program.

Sticks
05-31-2006, 04:22 PM
Thank you, you are absolutely correct. *Your language is crude. *It takes away from the legitimacy of your argument. *Puts you in a poor light. *If opinions are so easily dismissed yours is long forgotten.

I think Mitch is doing a fine job on limited resources. *Certainly there is no crisis in BISON Baseball. *Your expert opinion aside, my confidence is with the program. *

It's an expression...don't get all Mr. Rogers on me. *You're starting to sound like a principal. *And BTW, what are you singling me out for? *Have you read the previous 75 posts on this thread? *There might be two of them that are of the same flavor as yours. *Certainly everyone on here is entitled to their own opinion...

I did not say anything regarding having an EXPERT opinion--nor did I say that there was a CRISIS. *I SAID I think that NDSU would be better off with someone else at the helm--that's it (which is an opinion---shared by the majority in this thread BTW). *This is the third time I've had to point out the details of my posts. *Maybe it would help if you went and read it a couple more times...

You guys whine and cry about "trolls" on this site....yet you're the instigator in about half of the situations.

02Bison
05-31-2006, 07:32 PM
Thank you, you are absolutely correct. *Your language is crude. *It takes away from the legitimacy of your argument. *Puts you in a poor light. *If opinions are so easily dismissed yours is long forgotten.

I think Mitch is doing a fine job on limited resources. *Certainly there is no crisis in BISON Baseball. *Your expert opinion aside, my confidence is with the program. *

It's an expression...don't get all Mr. Rogers on me. *You're starting to sound like a principal. *And BTW, what are you singling me out for? *Have you read the previous 75 posts on this thread? *There might be two of them that are of the same flavor as yours. *Certainly everyone on here is entitled to their own opinion...

I did not say anything regarding having an EXPERT opinion--nor did I say that there was a CRISIS. *I SAID I think that NDSU would be better off with someone else at the helm--that's it (which is an opinion---shared by the majority in this thread BTW). *This is the third time I've had to point out the details of my posts. *Maybe it would help if you went and read it a couple more times...

You guys whine and cry about "trolls" on this site....yet you're the instigator in about half of the situations.

Would you two just kiss and makeup already or use the PM option to discuss your differences....please!

broke_back_mnt
05-31-2006, 09:51 PM
Im sorry for the frank discussion and now feel I have had my say on this. *Your right 02. *Thank you.

Sticks
06-01-2006, 02:20 PM
Sorry. :-[

jbison
06-02-2006, 04:12 PM
I don't know what your actual experience is with the baseball program at NDSU and Mitch, Katohtr, but I'll say this, you're quite right about the situation. Mitch doesn't have the passion, drive, attitude, and baseball strategy and competence necessary to be an outstanding coach. Nothing against him personally, but there are a lot of little league coaches better than him. In my opinion he could have learned a lot from Kelvin Ziegler back in the Bison/Sioux days. I played for Mitch and the general consensus on the teams I played on was that Mitch lacked credibility and he definitely didn't have the respect from the players that a coach should have. Awhile back I ran into a former Bison from Mitch's earlier days. I don't want to name names but he does/did hold some hitting records at NDSU. He said Mitch has always had the same coaching flaws and he couldn't believe he hasn't been "canned" yet. It seems that Mitch has always just shown up and never done much or anything above and beyond treating his job as a 9-5. He lacks discipline in his program and players commonly have had to pick up his leadership slack, which is fine but only to a point.

Some things I heard about this past year. I heard that the players' anonymous review of Mitch last year was pretty bad. Mitch gets the feedback, and supposedly, at the beginning of fall ball Mitch addressed everyone and said he thought the reviews were "a bunch of crap". That's pretty arrogant and ignorant of him to think players aren't entitled to have and express their views and opinions. Apparently he didn't take his reviews to heart. A couple of players told me that when the new coach from Texas, B.J. Griffith, arrived he pretty much took over and ran the show while Mitch stood by with his thumb inserted. It sounds like the players had a lot more respect for B.J. than Mitch. According to my math and the figures I get, the NDSU athletic department already has their replacement for Mitch as soon as they dispose of his tenure situation. I have nothing against Mitch personally, but the best direction for the program is without him.

IowaBisonToo
06-02-2006, 09:15 PM
Great to hear an insiders view point. It's too bad the program is to that extent. If this is truly the case, hopefully Taylor will start listening to some of the players - both current and former - and do what must be done. The longer it continues, the worse off the program will be.

kchats
06-03-2006, 02:41 AM
The thing you all need to remember is the schedule that baseball has played the past couple of seasons has been brutal. Once the Bison get into a conference and have more games against conference foes their record should improve. He could lighten up on the schedule some and probably get a much better review from the players. They probably don't like losing even though they play a killer schedule.

IowaBisonToo
06-03-2006, 08:36 PM
The way jbison spoke, though, it wasn't a schedule issue. It was a personal character issue - something that no matter what the schedule is won't make the players like him anymore. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it "plays out."

BASEBALLFAN
06-05-2006, 07:16 PM
Good post jbison. I have also watched a number of games this season and have spoken to many of the current players and the reviews of Mitch are all the same “He is not a good coach”. He doses nothing to teach and strengthen position play. In a home game against SDSU I saw him send a player out to play 2nd base who had no idea what he was doing, this after all most a whole year in the program. Mitch likes to think of himself as a great hitting instructor but his key ever day players that do well hitting say what he teaches is crap and they don’t listen to him. A great example of this is Mitch’s top recruit from last year who was brought in because of his great hitting. After a year of Mitch’s teaching this kid could not hit a basketball if you through it to him. Mitch will also sit in the dugout and yell instruction at the hitters during their at bats. From everything I have learned about hitting an at bat in a game is not the time for instruction it’s a time for confidence. It’s hard enough to hit an 85+-mile per/hour fastball or a good curveball without having to worry about what he is yelling now. Most of these guys have had very good hitting instruction. They don’t need Mitch, who has no real hitting credentials, to totally change their batting style. Ever hitter is different, the basics are the same, but there are differences and a good coach fine-tunes to individuals strengths.

Jbison, I hope the replacement in the wings is not B.J. Where as the review of him is better, he also is not qualified to coach at this level. As I here it B.J. has a great knowledge of the game but he also can’t teach it. He thinks that screaming and yelling is what makes a coach. There wasn't any quality leadership coming from him. If anyone saw him coaching 3rd base this year I’ll bet many of you, as I did, left wondering what he was doing out there (many lost opportunities and miss quos).

Lastly the schedule was not the problem, all though it was tuff and not put together well from a student prospective (a couple of key games could have been left out that would have helped greatly with missed class time). Coaching or the lack of it is the problem in this program.

Sticks
06-05-2006, 07:59 PM
JBB, I hope you and that stupid space alien avatar of your's are still reading this thread.

I couldn't agree more with baseballfan and jbison, and I didn't even play for Mitch...but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that this guy isn't doing a whole lot to make this program better. *It's obvious that the last decade's worth of Bison baseball players haven't had a shred of respect for Mitch, and the majority of them hated playing for him.

Really dissapointing considering the position that NDSU is in now...they're getting to play some bigger name schools and be in some exciting games--time to get someone in there that will comand respect and light a fire under those boys' ass!

Aroundthehorn
06-05-2006, 09:18 PM
From a former players perspective Baseballfan said it 99% correct. The scheduling is a problem, I'm not saying that the baseball team shouldn't play teams in the big 12 or SEC but they shouldn't take a springbreak trip where they only play these teams and get served and lose all confidence that they once had. This isn't fair to the team because it makes them look like they are alot worse then they are. The football team doesn't play 3 or 4 games in-a-row against the big 10 or big 12, why does the baseball team have to go on a 10 day road trip against them?? Another point a bring up is Gene Taylor (I think he is a great AD) I heard through the grapevine he said that he didn't schedule Minnesota on the Football teams previous schedules out of respect to the players. Where is the respect for baseball team with their scheduling?? Just thought I'd throw this out there.

formerplayer
06-05-2006, 09:23 PM
Interesting topic we have ran into.

The Bison need Blair Tweet back. I had a ton of respect playing for him. I would agree that Mitch is decent with hitting. His concepts are not that hard to understand and he is flexible with different hitters. Some people just can't make adjustments. The main problem was discipline--trying to be a buddy and not an authority figure. A lot of those close game losses may have been wins with a little more discipline, it was too easy not to take things seriously. And we all know each game is huge when dealing with the college baseball season and the selection process for regions when we were D2.

It is a lot easier to criticize from the outside, although a lot of the criticisms are accurate.

on an unrelated issue. katohtr is right with that bad avatar Jbb has though.

Jeffdaryl3rd
06-05-2006, 11:04 PM
Awhile back I ran into a former Bison from Mitch's earlier days. I don't want *to name names but he does/did hold some hitting records at NDSU. He said Mitch has always had the same coaching flaws and he couldn't believe he hasn't been "canned" yet. It seems that Mitch has always just shown up and never done much or anything above and beyond treating his job as a 9-5. He lacks discipline in his program and players *commonly have had to pick up his leadership slack, which is fine but only to a point.

Some things I heard about this past year. I heard that the players' anonymous review of Mitch last year was pretty bad. Mitch gets the feedback, and supposedly, at the beginning of fall ball Mitch addressed everyone and said he thought the reviews were "a bunch of crap". That's pretty arrogant and ignorant of him to think players aren't entitled to have and express their views and opinions. Apparently he didn't take his reviews to heart. A couple of players told me that when the new coach from Texas, B.J. Griffith, arrived he pretty much took over and ran the show while Mitch stood by with his thumb inserted. It sounds like the players had a lot more respect for B.J. than Mitch. According to my math and the figures I get, the NDSU athletic department already has their replacement for Mitch as soon as they dispose of his tenure situation. I have nothing against Mitch personally, but the best direction for the program is without him.

Let me just say that I've played a lot of baseball and played a lot of baseball with players who hold baseball records at various schools and in various leagues, and let me tell you that holding records does not mean that a person has any idea what they are talking about when they talk about who would make a good coach. *Moving on to the topic at hand though, I stuck up for Mitch last year and I'm going to do it again this year. *While I think that the transition is not going as smoothly as it could have otherwise gone, I think that it is certainly well within the realm of what was expected. *Sure, 22 wins in two years is not good, but last year this team was loaded up with freshmen and thrown into the fire. *This program has gone through its growing pains, but I think with 8 players signed for next year (four of them JUCO players who could realistically help right away), the return of Kole Zimmerman (not only on the field but in the locker room) and a good nucleus of young players returning (Mossey, Laber *will be Jr's, Otto, McNary So's) this program is showing signs of life. *Let's all remember that before Mitch arrived on the scene NDSU baseball had been floundering around with a terrible record for quite some time, and that was in D-II. *I say that at the very least Mitch needs to be allowed to have his second recruiting class get to be juniors ('08 season) before his recruiting job can be fairly evaluated, so I say get off his ass until then.

Also, I am disinclined to put any stock in the end of year evaluations from the 2005 team. *My reason is best illustrated by this example: last year ('05) we had a pitchers only (plus Mongo) meeting after the first game of a four game set against Missouri, which we had lost to drop our record to 0-6 on the spring trip, a six game stretch where we gave up 80 runs as a pitching staff. *Mongo asked what the problem was, why pitchers were walking guys, not throwing strikes, and making stupid pitches. *Despite the admission of a couple players (literally, 2) that said it was a lack of focus on their part and failure to execute, the general consensus was reached that it was the catchers' faults. *They were not setting up far enough out on the plate, they were calling a bad game, they were not blocking balls or throwing runners out. *This just typifies what the attitude of that team was, which was to point fingers at coaches and teammates and complain about failure rather than look in the mirror and work to fix or minimize their weaknesses as players. *If I had been on this team in the fall when the alleged discussion of the evaluations took place I would have also expressed my opinion that I thought they were bullsh*t.

Finally, one of the former bison players I played with (you should like him Jbison, because believe it or not he's a Bison recordholder) said that he thought Mitch's approach to hitting was very simple, easy to apply and yielded results to those players who spent the time and effort to apply it. *So there you all have it. *All points debunked, and now, this Bison recordholder is going to go ice his wrists to eleviate the carpel-tunnel I got from typing this ridiculously long response.

kchats
06-06-2006, 03:25 AM
Thanks for being a voice of reason. I hope you are having good luck with your career and wish you the best. Let's see how things turnout as the players mature and as the Bison get into a conference. Bot of these events will help things immensely.

jbison
06-06-2006, 07:44 PM
In "debunking" former "debunked" points, I must point out that it is entirely possible for a pitcher (highly touted and beloved no less) to have a slightly skewed and different view of Mitch than that of MOST hitters or of an average Joe Bison. The majority feeling among all of the players is what counts. Mitch will and has acknowledged the fact that different strategies and styles work for different hitters but he has always failed use that knowledge in his own coaching style to bring out the best in ALL of the hitters and players, not just a few. It definitely hurt the baseball program when Blair Tweet finally left and when he started to cut back on the time he spent helping out hitters. It must be pure irony that players (hitters especially, ordinary & an ocassional Bison record holder here and there) responded so well to his instruction over Mitch's, not to mention the tremendous amount of respect everyone had for Blair. It wasn't that their concepts and basic fundamentals were polar extremes or that much different, but rather the coaching style, presentation, approach, personality, credibility, and emphasis on discipline was what players really took to. Blair always seemed to have success with ALL hitters, and especially ones that didn't take to Mitch's style. From my own experience, I can tell you that Blair wasn't always thrilled with how Mitch would work with some of the hitters and he didn't hide it.

We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Mitch was getting the most out of his players and team, which by the way is part of what a coach is supposed to do and not necessarily measured by wins and losses. At times Mitch has tried to crack down and operate "boot camp" but it has always been short-lived and not taken seriously. Coaches coach and players play. I had the luxury of playing for outstanding and poor coaches alike during my career. Maybe it is again ironic that the outstanding coaches always seemed to get the most out of the players and teams, even when dealing with marginal talent, young players, tough opponents, and adversity. Players always seemed to work hard, be prepared, focused, disciplined, and ready to play. Must be a coincidence. Even in Mitch's most successful season's, I guarantee you the consensus sentiment among players was that of disappointment in a season that ended too soon and a sense of underachievement.

I'd describe the last two seasons of play as inconsistent, mediocre, and underachieving.... the same words MOST players (current and former, record and non-record holding) use to describe Mitch's coaching style and abilities. All you have to do is make a list of the things an exceptional or ideal coach does or should do. Compare that to what Mitch actually does and you'll see it's the minimum at best. If Mitch can't get the most and best out of himself as a coach, how can he get the best out of his players and have their respect? Mitch isn't giving his full energy and effort into the baseball program and he isn't passionate about baseball and what it takes to win. He never has and never will, and that is the main problem... not the traveling, the schedule, or young players, those are all secondary and just excuses made for a coach who has never gotten the most out of his teams, worked on his own coaching weaknesses, and gave more than a minimum mediocre effort.

Sticks
06-06-2006, 08:06 PM
Very good post--lots of truth to it also....main thing is that it doesn't take a former or current player (record holder or non-record holder (how did this come up?)) to recognize this, which is a HUGE red flag. *When you have non-NDSU coaches, players, fans..ect making comments to the same affect.....

I think that you're rigth about Tweet too. *I used to HATE that guy and I never really figured it out until right now. *It was because the guy was as competitive and passionate about winning as some of the other players were. *This guy was in your face (opponents) chirpin right along with the other 22 Bison in the dugout. *Ball players want to play hard and win for a coach that wants to win as much as them, which describes Blair Tweet. *I think the players sensed that, which is probably why they took to him a little more than they took to Mitch. *You need to have someone in charge that is as intense as some of the guys, and Mitch always just looked like he was occupying space.

boss
06-06-2006, 08:43 PM
No arguments from me on Tweeter. He was a hard ass but it was because he had so much heart. I learned a lot from him both on and off the field. Almost like a father away from home. Too bad the RedHawks didn't see his worth for what he did around Newman outdoor field for everyone involved, he basically ran the place. They couldn't afford what he was worth anyway. I was very disappointed when he couldn't be around my senior year as much....but also knew that it was for the right reasons, to have more time with his family. Best kids ever.

Jeffdaryl3rd
06-06-2006, 09:28 PM
Jbison, I have devised a way in which we can tell objectively whether Mitch is doing a good job coaching the hitters or not--take a look at the numbers. *So I have provided for you the stats of every player who hit in both last year (’05) and this year (’06) for the Bison.
Matt Mossey (’05) .294 AVG, 29 R, 7 2B, 4 3B, 2 HR, 27 RBI, .402 SLG, 18 BB, 47 K, 2.61 K/BB, .359 OBP
Matt Mossey (’06) .320 AVG, 31 R, 7 2B, 3 3B, 3 HR, 28 RBI, .430 SLG, 13 BB, 34 K, 2.61 K/BB, .380 OBP

Charles Magedanz ’05 .219 AVG, 26 R, *8 2B, 2 3B, 2 HR, 19 RBI, .317 SLG, 12 BB, 30 K, 2.50 K/BB, .279 OBP
Charles Magedanz ’06 .304 AVG, 31 R, 10 2B, 2 3B, 2 HR, 30 RBI, .396 SLG, 13 BB, 29 K, 2.23 K/BB, .346 OBP

Ryan Langlais ’05 .207 AVG, 15 R, 3 2B, 2 3B, 0 HR, *7 RBI, .270 SLG, 11 BB, 27 K, 2.45 K/BB, .276 OBP
Ryan Langlais ’06 .263 AVG, 26 R, 8 2B, 0 3B, 3 HR, 23 RBI, .355 SLG, 30 BB, 27 K, 0.90 K/BB, .371 OBP

Jared Sullivan ’05 .294 AVG, *9 R, *2 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, *5 RBI, .353 SLG, *2 BB, *6 K, 3.00 K/BB, .442 OBP
Jared Sullivan ’06 .351 AVG, 32 R, 21 2B, 0 3B, 7 HR, 41 RBI, .592 SLG, 22 BB, 33 K, 1.50 K/BB, .500 OBP

Tyrus Powe ’05 .246 AVG, 7 R, 3 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 6 RBI, .328 SLG, 10 BB, 25 K, 2.50 K/BB, .347 OBP
Tyrus Powe ’06 .128 AVG, 4 R, 0 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, 4 RBI, .128 SLG, *3 BB, 20 K, 6.67 K/BB, .239 OBP

Gavin Hofer ’05 .221 AVG, 10 R, 2 2B, 0 3B, 1 HR, *8 RBI, .269 SLG, *5 BB, 29 K, 5.80 K/BB, .274 OBP
Gavin Hofer ’06 .265 AVG, 15 R, 4 2B, 1 3B, 0 HR, 18 RBI, .309 SLG, 15 BB, 26 K, 1.73 K/BB, .333 OBP

Greg Plecki ’05 .182 AVG, 13 R, 3 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, *9 RBI, .212 SLG, 13 BB, 27 K, 2.08 K/BB, .308 OBP
Greg Plecki ’06 .235 AVG, 36 R, 3 2B, 0 3B, 2 HR, 15 RBI, .283 SLG, 27 BB, 36 K, 1.33 K/BB, .336 OBP

I will note that Sullivan and Powe’s numbers are not going to be real indicative of the statistical change from one season to the next, as Sullivan only played about 10 games before he got hurt last year and Powe’s ’05 numbers were massively inflated by a very high average against D-II and NAIA teams. *Having said all that, if you look at the numbers, there is a huge improvement from 2005 to 2006. *Now, I know that the numbers are not all impressive, even the improved 2006 numbers, but they do show that the hitters have improved under Mitch’s tutelage. *To me the most striking number isn’t even batting average, it is on-base percentage and the strikeout-to-walk ratio (by the way, a smaller number is better) which indicate patience and plate discipline, maybe the best offensive indicator of coaching. *Check out Langlais walking more than he K’d, an impressive feat. *Just thought I’d point out that every hitter on the ’05 team improved in the ’06 season except one, which last time I checked probably qualifies as getting the most out of your talent.

lakesbison
06-06-2006, 10:33 PM
looks good to me!!!..... I ran into mitch the other day.. he seemed happy... which is a good indication that his year end review went well. and this thread can probably be doused.....

jbison
06-07-2006, 12:21 AM
Jeffdaryl3rd- Nice attempt, but your statistical analysis is simplistic, flawed, and in no way proves a correlation between the players increase in production and a positive influence from Mitch's coaching. You don't take into account any adjustments the players may have taken themselves or from a new coach, the individual maturation process, or quite possibly Mitch working with players less, allowing them to perform more naturally in their own way. Without putting any of the listed players on the spot, it wouldn't suprise me if at least several of them would be quite offended with you crediting their improvement to Mitch... from what I hear anyway. Numbers can always be skewed and interpreted in a way to support opinions, everyone knows that.

The true measure of Mitch is still the players view of him. If the players like playing for him, which still doesn't seem to be the case, hats of to him for making adjustments in his coaching style. Until he wins the players over and gets them to buy into his coaching, he'll continue to have inconsistent and underachieving teams no matter what level he's coaching at.

Jeffdaryl3rd
06-07-2006, 01:15 AM
In my experience, players don't always know even what is best for themselves, and that coaches are there to provide experienced advice to them and to guide them. *If players know what is best for them all the time, why do major league teams have bench coaches, hitting coordinators, pitching coaches, managers, etc? *Like I said, a simple increase in batting average by itself is not necessarily an important or relevant piece of information. *However, an increase in walks and a decrease in strikeout to walk ratio coupled with an increased batting average is an obvious sign of increased plate discipline and/or strike-zone awareness. *I understand that isolated numbers are relatively meaningless, but across the board improvement cannot be ignored. *I understand your point, but I think the numbers are indicative of improvement, and would typically be the type of improvement that comes from coaching as well as experience.

As to my statistical analysis being simplistic, what do you really want from me here? As much as I love throwing numbers around, I'm not exactly going to do statistical significance testing on the Bison baseball stats, so this is the best I am willing to do as far as investing time and effort into numbers for a fan site.

NebraskaBISON
06-07-2006, 01:48 AM
It's not like we're talking about little league here. They're big boys, and if he's as disliked as some say, he probably would've been canned back in the '90s. Plus, it's not like players say, hey this coach isn't my favorite guy in the world, I'm gonna play like shit today or just not try. If you can't motivate yourselves for a game by the time you're in college, baseball may not be for you. Former players have a right to talk, but other than that it sounds like a lot of speculation from outsiders.

bison_baseball
06-07-2006, 02:01 PM
People have made some great comments on here, and some not so great (myself included) and even busted out stats to prove their point. But when it comes down to it, NDSU needs a coach that has a love for the game, somebody that's there 24 hrs a day not only on the field but off, somebody that's a father figure on and off the field....let's us not forgot that we've got kids here that are 17-18 years old, some leaving home for the first time, going to college in another state or even country, and they need somebody to turn to. Never once did Mitch ever stop by the dorms during my freshman year to check in on me or my teammates. Never once did he call in to see if we needed anything or have us over for dinner. And don't get me wrong here, we were big boys and we could take of ourselves, but it's the little things that build a program and make you feel at home at a school! Sure Mitch has some great knowledge when it comes to hitting, but I really feel he doesn't have all the key elements to be a D-I HEAD coach....maybe a hitting coach but by know means does he have all the tools to lead this program. When you've got players (freshman - seniors) that don't respect you as a coach, there's no way you're going to be able to grab their attention and have them play at their top potential. Sure players should have their own drive and determination on the field, but it's always nice to have that extra push from somebody you respect and look up to. Blair Tweet is a great example, not only was he always there for you but he was somebody that pushed you each and every day!
On another note, I do agree with the fact that we need to give this program time to be built, rome wasn't built over night guys. I think there has been some improvement over the last two years, and players are starting to mature and the team is starting to come together. But things need to change in the program, they need to start building a tradition and start setting a standard.

BASEBALLFAN
06-07-2006, 09:14 PM
Jeffdaryl3rd-The players you listed have learned that what Mitch is teaching dosn't work and they don't follow it (A couple of these players have actually told me the differance form last year to this year is just that). A good question to ask would be if Mitch's hitting instruction is so good why dosn't he inforce it on everyone? Why do the ones that go back to they own style become better hitters and the ones tring to earn a spot in the line-up that are force to follow Mitch's teachings struggle.

BamBison
10-26-2006, 05:27 PM
interesting comments...

STC_TFA
10-27-2006, 05:56 AM
Very interesting reading. And thats why we have an athletic director.

Jeffdaryl3rd
10-27-2006, 04:28 PM
I think this is going to be the year that the baseball program turns the corner and gets up around .500. Mossey, Laber, Langlais, etc are all upperclassmen and have two years as starters under their belts. Last year the team showed much improvement in the individual stats and also played many more competitive games. I'm not saying that this team is going to go on a tear, but I think that this team will be better and competitive on a more consistent basis.

kchats
10-30-2006, 02:31 AM
Remember in 2007 the baseball team will be in a conference and the schedule will be more consistent. NDSU has had a killer schedule during this transition that makes it tough to win alot of games. The team should improve because of that great competition.

TheDoctor
10-30-2006, 04:56 AM
2008 for baseball right? 2007 is the up coming season! ;)

STC_TFA
10-30-2006, 03:19 PM
Lakes what are your views on this subject?

BamBison
10-30-2006, 04:03 PM
Correct B1SON.
NDSU goes into the Mid-Con Conference in '08.

However, the NDSU baseball schedule lightens up considerably in '07, so the Bison W-L record should improve considerably, regardless of individual player improvement, or lack thereof.

TheDoctor
10-30-2006, 08:59 PM
Lakes what are your views on this subject?


When the excitement and the fire starts to wear off on a story, bring in Lakes, he'll get the party started again! ;D You guys antagonize him! Unbelievable. ::)

sambini
11-01-2006, 03:11 AM
Lakes is a former player and is from the Lakes. As is Mitch++

lakesbison
11-02-2006, 12:45 AM
I thought this topic was dead back in jun 7th 06... BAM BAM... who are you and why did you restart this???

seems like a hidden agenda to me..

I played and you know what, Mitch wasn't the greatest coach ever, but he was honest and upfront with people.. if you werent going to play or werent good enough, he cut you... if you were skilled he let you succeed.. (mike gunderson, Loesch, Scott Swanson, Eckhoff, Niel Wagner..... etc etc...)

College Baseball is finding TALENT and getting them in your progam.. thats about 90% of the job.

10% is taking the marginal players and making them better, depth etc..

so maybe 10-20% of Mitch isn't the greatest.. but there is still 80% good in him.


bad Schedules don't help matters.. but look at the IOWA and MINNESOTA win's last year.. Im lookin forward to a SOLID .500 record next year.. and upward from then.

Give him 2 years.. if NDSU is stuggling.. then Mitch will step down himself... im convinced of that, his wife has always said the same...

sambini
11-02-2006, 02:18 AM
Thanks Lakes . ENOUGH OF THIS STUFF ON MITCH.

TheDoctor
11-02-2006, 03:58 AM
WOW Lakes, that was good. The WHOLE post was mature, level headed, positive, and educational. I always knew you had it in you! ;)

sambini
11-03-2006, 09:49 AM
++++++++

heymch86
11-26-2006, 08:38 PM
Personnally, I think NDSU should just drop baseball altogether. No matter what, there is only going to be just a sprinkling of home games each year because of the weather. No cares enough about bison baseball. Drop it, save the athletic department some $$$ and then distribute that to basketball, football, track, soccer, wrestling.

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-26-2006, 10:07 PM
Good idea, distribute the money to sports like track (yawn), soccer (yaaawwwnnn), or women's basketball (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz). *Excuse me poster, but does your name happen to be Lynn Dorn? *She is the only person in athletic department who I think could ever be coaxed into believing that this stupid proposal was a good idea. *The Mid-Con sponsors baseball so they will start getting their fair share of conference home games in 2008 and this will ease the pressure to schedule so many road games. *They'll get closer to a 50/50 home/away as the years move forward, but they won't ever get all the way there probably. *If we are going to drop a sport, how about freakin' Volleyball.

Younguns
11-26-2006, 10:30 PM
Personnally, I think NDSU should just drop baseball altogether. No matter what, there is only going to be just a sprinkling of home games each year because of the weather. No cares enough about bison baseball. Drop it, save the athletic department some $$$ and then distribute that to basketball, football, track, soccer, wrestling. *

I think that statement is rather short-sighted. Do you have an agenda? I could say, who cares about track, soccer, and wrestling and make a more valid point. The reason people don't care about the program is because it is a perennial underachiever. It could be a much better program under the right leadership and probably develop into a regional power. No offense to all you other ex-players but you know as well as I do that if we had a better coach who knew anything about recruiting there would have been more than just one NCC title. The home game problem will be solved with entry into the new conference. Also, the NCAA has pushed the season starting date back by two weeks which should do a little to help northern teams schedule non-conference opponents. If NDSU were to continue taking the approach of waiting to schedule all of its home games in April and May then the weather problem shouldn't be much of a factor. That gives the program a 6 week period to get in about 18-24 home games which is a very reasonable amount for a northern school. If they can put together a decent season this year they should be able draw non-conference home dates with the UNI's, Wisconsin-Milwaukee's, Iowa's, and Nothern Colorado's out there. Sadly we also have the whole global warming thing on our side too since winters have really seemed mild these last few years.
If you think that this could never be a successful program then you really don't know too much about college baseball. It has one of the finest stadiums in the region and our location is definetely a potential upside. What else is there to do in Fargo during a Mid- April weekend? Not a whole lot. That's how programs like Wichita State benefit. Despite being small in size they are located in a market that embraces its sports because there's not much else there. Do you think a recruit would rather go to school in Fargo or Brookings? It's a no brainer. There is the whole name recognition thing too. We are the flagship school for the state. If the program can scrap together a 20-30 win season the name will bode well for recruiting. Realistically we are competing right now for the same quality of recruits as a Mid-Con level program. Do you think a recruit is gonna choose a Western Illinois-type over NDSU if win totals are the same? No way. Especially as our other programs grow in significance. There are also plans in the works to winterize the batting cage area below the stadium which should provide a somewhat decent winter facility. There is definitely an infrastructure available for the creation of a solid program, it's just that nothing has been done about it. With the right leadership and a little funding this could very easily become one of NDSU's better programs.

heymch86
11-26-2006, 11:57 PM
I know I wouldn't want to be sitting at Newman Outdoor Field on a 40 degree day in April with just 63 close friends and families of the players, thats for sure. Wrestling and Volleyball have been successful for many years. They generate much more press than baseball. Only time baseball gets any attention is when the University of Minnesota sends their C-squad team up to Fargo and the Bison win. Let it go, baseball will not succeed at NDSU. Wichita State is in college baseball central. With the college world series being held in the same state.

Younguns
11-27-2006, 12:48 AM
I know I wouldn't want to be sitting at Newman Outdoor Field on a 40 degree day in April with just 63 close friends and families of the players, thats for sure. Wrestling and Volleyball have been successful for many years. They generate much more press than baseball. Only time baseball gets any attention is when the University of Minnesota sends their C-squad team up to Fargo and the Bison win. Let it go, baseball will not succeed at NDSU. Wichita State is in college baseball central. With the college world series being held in the same state.

That's just dumb. *That post just proves you know nothing about college baseball or the dynamics of college athletics. *If you would have read my last post you would have been able to figure out why some of the games only have a handful of people show up. *It's due more to a lack of direction in the program. *It's not just the weather because it can get downright cold in Nebraska and people show up for those games religiously. *Here in Fargo home games would just have to start a couple weeks later. *If you would sit outside in 40 to 50 degree weather to watch football then what is the difference in watching baseball? *Either way you aren't the one playing, you're sitting in a seat. *Besides, after a long North Dakota winter 50 degrees ain't that uncomfortable. *Lately there have been alot more 60 and 70 degree days. *
Secondly, the point is not that wrestling and volleyball haven't been successful. *Those programs could go on to become national powers and they wouldn't draw a whole lot better than they do now. *Wrestling and volleyball are not very viable spectator sports. *
Saying that the only publicity occurs when the team beats a Minnesota's C-squad is about the most ridiculous thing yet. *First of all, a team that wins 12 games is not going to produce a whole lot of positive things to write about. *Secondly, since you must not have been at that game, the Bison did not beat a Minnesota "C-squad." *They left behind a shortstop who hit .270 and two other regulars that were really struggling at the time. *The Bison lost to the so-called "A squad" 5-4 at the dome because of an error. *Those pitchers they faced in Fargo were guys who got consistent innings in Big Ten play. *The whole "we left behind our best players" schtick was just Anderson's defense to the fact that they had a very good chance of coming here and getting beat. *This program could easily come to dominate the Gophers, as that program continues to spiral into mediocrety. *
And then finally... the College World Series is in Omaha which is in Nebraska... not Kansas. *The point is not that we are going to become a Wichita State (who are tremendously overrated and as anyone who has ever played there will tell you benefit greatly from hometown umpiring) but that sort of formula could work here. *Similar type of metro area, strong support for the university, good facility, media outlet, etc., etc. *If you don't want to support the baseball program then that's your choice but don't come on here espousing arguments that make no sense and have nothing backing them up. *It is America's pastime after all and college baseball is growing in stature all across the country. *Quit being a hater.

Hammersmith
11-27-2006, 01:10 AM
The point is moot anyway since NDSU is already at the bare minimum of sports required at the DI-FPS level. To drop baseball, we would need to add a sport. If you want to argue that baseball should be dropped and tennis or swimming & diving should be added, be my guest. But simply redirecting baseball funds to other sports won't work.

Bisonguy
11-27-2006, 01:35 AM
The point is moot anyway since NDSU is already at the bare minimum of sports required at the DI-FPS level. To drop baseball, we would need to add a sport. If you want to argue that baseball should be dropped and tennis or swimming & diving should be added, be my guest. But simply redirecting baseball funds to other sports won't work.



Actually, NDSU could drop two sports, as only 14 are required to be a member of DI (7 must be women's). NDSU currently sponsors 16 sports, as indoor and outdoor track are counted as separate sports if funded beyond 80% (NCAA DI Manual 20.9.1.2). 16 sports are required to participate in the DI-Football Bowl Subdivision.

btw- it's just the DI-FCS (Football Championship Subdivision), and the title is the DI Football Championship.

Younguns
11-27-2006, 01:48 AM
And I meant to add that the lack of leadership is not exclusive to coaching. *It goes all the way up the ladder. *I know it's popular to heap all kinds of praise on Gene Taylor for the success of the football program and strides that mens basketball has made but there are some programs that are really suffering from a lack of vision. *Baseball is one of those with its paltry budget. *Look at women's basketball too... that's been in a nosedive. And Dorn... let's not start on Dorn * *

Hammersmith
11-27-2006, 01:58 AM
The point is moot anyway since NDSU is already at the bare minimum of sports required at the DI-FPS level. To drop baseball, we would need to add a sport. If you want to argue that baseball should be dropped and tennis or swimming & diving should be added, be my guest. But simply redirecting baseball funds to other sports won't work.



Actually, NDSU could drop two sports, as only 14 are required to be a member of DI (7 must be women's). NDSU currently sponsors 16 sports, as indoor and outdoor track are counted as separate sports if funded beyond 80% (NCAA DI Manual 20.9.1.2). *16 sports are required to participate in the DI-Football Bowl Subdivision.

btw- it's just the DI-FCS (Football Championship Subdivision), and the title is the DI Football Championship.



I could've sworn that either Taylor or Dorn was quoted in the Forum as saying that NDSU was at the minimum number of sports. I could be remembering incorrectly, though. Do we know if Cross Country, Indoor T&F, and Outdoor T&F are all being funded at 80% or above for both men and women?

Thanks for the FCS correction. Someday I'll get that right.

heymch86
11-27-2006, 02:29 AM
It's not just the weather because it can get downright cold in Nebraska and people show up for those games religiously. *Here in Fargo home games would just have to start a couple weeks later. *If you would sit outside in 40 to 50 degree weather to watch football then what is the difference in watching baseball? *Either way you aren't the one playing, you're sitting in a seat. *Besides, after a long North Dakota winter 50 degrees ain't that uncomfortable.

Look at women's basketball too... that's been in a nosedive. *And Dorn... let's not start on Dorn * *

People are interested in football, thats why they'd sit out in 10 degree weather. No one gives a crap about bison baseball= drop it.

As for Dorn, she's been around longer than Ruley, she oversaw all the women's basketball championships and the volleyball championships. She hired the new volleyball coach who turned one of the worst teams last season, to an above .500 team.

Bisonguy
11-27-2006, 02:32 AM
The point is moot anyway since NDSU is already at the bare minimum of sports required at the DI-FPS level. To drop baseball, we would need to add a sport. If you want to argue that baseball should be dropped and tennis or swimming & diving should be added, be my guest. But simply redirecting baseball funds to other sports won't work.



Actually, NDSU could drop two sports, as only 14 are required to be a member of DI (7 must be women's). NDSU currently sponsors 16 sports, as indoor and outdoor track are counted as separate sports if funded beyond 80% (NCAA DI Manual 20.9.1.2). *16 sports are required to participate in the DI-Football Bowl Subdivision.

btw- it's just the DI-FCS (Football Championship Subdivision), and the title is the DI Football Championship.



I could've sworn that either Taylor or Dorn was quoted in the Forum as saying that NDSU was at the minimum number of sports. I could be remembering incorrectly, though. Do we know if Cross Country, Indoor T&F, and Outdoor T&F are all being funded at 80% or above for both men and women?

Thanks for the FCS correction. Someday I'll get that right.


I could have sworn that Gene stated earlier that NDSU had enough sports if needed to move to DI-A (of course, now it's Bowl Subdivision ;)) while still looking for an all-sports conferene.

I'm pretty sure the women's side is close to fully-funded, as they were looking for anyplace to raise scholies to match those in football. The men's side might be another story, however.

kchats
11-27-2006, 02:50 AM
Let's get into the Mid-Con and let the programs recruit to build for winning the Mid-Con before cutting sports just for the hell of it. Heck Oral Roberts was excited about having the Mid-Con tourney at Newman Field. Oral Roberts is a baseball power.

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-27-2006, 03:01 AM
It is so absurd to suggest dropping Baseball. *Can't even fathom it. *Dropping baseball would also be an ecouraging return on NDSU's 34% ownership in Newman field.

As for Dorn, she salivates every time she hears anything about the possibility of baseball being dropped. *She hates the program and would love to see baseball struck for resources to go to her/Amy Ruley's basketball team **cough** I mean the NDSU athletic department. *I never took Lynn seriously in my time as an athlete and I take her even less seriously now. *What a joke.

Younguns
11-27-2006, 03:34 AM
[quote]People are interested in football, thats why they'd sit out in 10 degree weather. No one gives a crap about bison baseball= drop it.

As for Dorn, she's been around longer than Ruley, she oversaw all the women's basketball championships and the volleyball championships. She hired the new volleyball coach who turned one of the worst teams last season, to an above .500 team.


WTF? *Are you this thick in person? *When you attempt to make an argument it is neccessary to back it up with facts that relate to the subject. *I never made the claim that the general public cares about Bison baseball. *The only thing I said was that there is a reason for the lack of interest and that is because it's not a winning program because there is a lack of leadership and vision. *If one was to use the mind-set that "no one cares about it so we should drop it" then there's no reason to keep anything except football and men's basketball. *With the right guidance the program could be a very successful one and draw quite well (I could see it averaging 1000 to 1400 per game with a few winning seasons). *You need to get off of your volleyball high-horse and start living in reality. *Don't be bitter because volleyball isn't, never was, and never will be a sport of public interest in this country. *It will never leave the "niche sport" category. *I'm sorry but you need to realize that. *It seems like that's where alot of your frustration is coming from. *I'm not on here arguing that baseball should take precedence over any other sport *at this schoolor any other sport over baseball. *That is unrealistic and the idea is in itself is preposterous. *They're seperate entities and let them remain that way. *You have to understand where baseball sits in the spectrum of college athletics. *I will restate the reasons why this program has the potential to be successful:
1)Great home venue
2)name recognition-it's THE state university, not something like Youngstown State.
3) local media outlet
4)other athletic programs that continue to get better
5)a favorable baseball conference to start D1 in. *Oral Roberts is legit, not much else-beat them in the conf. tourney and you have an autobid
6)Location-there's not a damn thing going on in Fargo that time of year. *Minnesota has fallen off as the regional power with a few decent seasons we should be able to compete for recruits. And like I said, all things equal, where would a recruit rather go: somewhere like Brookings or Fargo?
7) A thing called "WICHE" which allows NDSU to recruit from throughout the western states because it reduces tuition to 150% of in-state. *In a sport like baseball where scholarships are limited that's huge and it allows the program to tap into the baseball hotbeds of the southwest and Junior College talent which is probably more important in baseball than any other sport.
8)Interest in college baseball is growing tremendously. *Some MLB teams are drafting almost exclusively college players. *15 years ago that was not the case. *As a result the level of competition is much better than ever before. *There is even a video game out for college baseball.

I guess you suckered me into addressing Dorn. *The statement that you made about her being around since before Ruley so we should keep her is unfounded. *In the sports world there is the "what have you done for me lately" creed. *Dorn is a dinosaur. *She's in the dark. *She and Ruley need to be shown the door. *Just because you did something substantial 10 years ago doesn't give one the right to wallow in mediocrety. *That was Division 2. *To be the kind of success NDSU has the potential for it's a totally different model. *As for the vball coach: How much of that hiring was Dorn's doing? The only thing she probably did is tell the secretary to put an add on NCAA.org advertising that the position had an opening. Give me a break

NebraskaBISON
11-27-2006, 03:47 AM
[/quote]

People are interested in football, thats why they'd sit out in 10 degree weather. No one gives a crap about bison baseball= drop it.

[/quote]

So what sports besides football and basketball do people care about? Have you ever seen a baseball game? Also, how is it possible you thought that Wichita is in Nebraska?

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-27-2006, 04:10 AM
Bottom line here is that there is basically one sport NDSU can expect to make significant money year in, year out and that is football. Beyond that, you would like to have programs that increase the visibility of the university, and as long as NDSU is in Newman they are doing that. This program has potential, but because it doesn't have the D-II history of programs like football, if it is going to ever become a very-good program it is going to take a while to grow. Small steps, and I think the program has moved ahead in baby steps these past few seasons.

cmav
11-27-2006, 04:27 AM
I would have to say no on dropping baseball....

and I think we'll be pleasantly surprised this year with the team... they've got a pretty decent recruiting class - they should put some W's in the column this season...

I love football and basketball as much as anyone, but come on - who can razz our one team that can put a W in the books against the Gophers?

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-27-2006, 04:52 AM
++++ Agreed on all points.

bisonball
11-27-2006, 04:02 PM
I am sick of everyone saying that the baseball program is a crap program. No one has mentioned that 1/2 way through the season last year we had the 12th hardest schedule in the country. If we played the bottom feeders of division 1 like football and basketball do then we would post atleast a .500 season. I am certainly not trying to say we are a great team, but our schedule along with softball's is far superior to any other sports at NDSU. Yeah so the football team played the gophers tough... props to them and basketball beat wisconsin... also a great game for the school, but until they start playing 4-5 ranked teams a year and another 3-4 that are borderline top 25 then I will continue to give them minimal respect.

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-27-2006, 04:17 PM
I'm not saying I give no respect to some of those programs, but it is important to uderstand that baseball has played top notch competition in its first couple years of D-I and while improvement may not have showed up in terms of the W/L record yet, this program has improved. It will continue to be a slow building process, but this will be a very good program.

cmav
11-27-2006, 07:15 PM
A Bison Baseball win over the Gophers should be in the same book as a Bison Basketball win over Wisconsin - in respect to the individual program. It's a great morale builder for the team and it gets the public's attention. And apprently, baseball is the only program that can get it done against the Gophers... regardless of the team they play. They'll do it again this year.

Baseball is building up for the Mid Con - no doubt about it!
I myself look forward to the first time I can freeze my butt off watching baseball at Newman. We're on the right track - but why rip into the coaches? Mitch knows he wont be here forever and he's got pretty good assistants... and who cares if Lynn wants to get rid of baseball, it's not going to happen!

D
11-27-2006, 07:40 PM
Don't you have to wonder about the direction of the program when you are 1 season removed from getting shutout by a bad UND team........in a mid-week game? And the team's best offensive plater, by far, has graduated, and Laber really hasn't progressed like he should have. His WHIP is terrible and his control isn't much better. The guy has all the potential in the world despite being a little short.

IowaBisonToo
11-27-2006, 08:19 PM
No way NDSU should drop baseball. Maybe they should drop Dorn? :-? ;D

D - go back to the Fighting Fire Truck site. They could use another blow hard.

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-27-2006, 08:46 PM
Laber will be fine. *He has been pitching in front of a poor defensive team and a team that doesn't score very many runs. *For a guy like Laber who knows he is good and who has great stuff, it is frustrating to pitch well and lose, then you start forcing things and it all goes down hill. *This will be one of the better defensive teams NDSU has had and Mossey and Laber will form a good 1-2 starting combo this season and that will be big for this team. *However, the #1 most important thing for this team in '07 will be getting Kole Zimmerman back. *This team sorely missed his bat, but more importantly his leadership and grit last season and getting him back and hopefully that will help stabilize things.

Hammersmith
11-28-2006, 03:43 AM
NDSU could also use a strong spring sport. Baseball seems to be the best candidate. Between baseball, softball, outdoor track & field, and golf, which do you think could potentially bring in the most attention and crowds? I wish Coach McLeod hadn't put together such a tough schedule during the past few years. It would be far easier to generate interest if we could see more tangible improvement. I'm sure there's been some, but the numbers of losses make it difficult to see.

Also Bisonguy: I concede. I'm sure you're right about the number of sports.

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-28-2006, 02:34 PM
Alert the press. *Hammersmith has been defeated on an NCAA compliance related issue.

wacker-backer
11-28-2006, 05:51 PM
Does Dorn really want to drop baseball?

Jeffdaryl3rd
11-28-2006, 09:47 PM
I guess I should clarify this statement. *I couldn't assure you with any certainty that Lynn wants to drop baseball. *What I said earlier about Lynn being the only person in the athletic department who would go along with such a move is based on the fact that Lynn has always butted heads with the baseball program. *There are various reasons as to why this could be, but to say that Lynn has never been a friend of the baseball team would be an accurate statement. So maybe I got carried away, but take home point: Lynn doesn't like Bison Baseball; interpret what you like from there.

wacker-backer
11-28-2006, 09:54 PM
I hope not (wanting to drop baseball) Dorn did a wonderful job with George Ellis by citing age she does not seem very smart to an outsider.

cmav
11-28-2006, 10:37 PM
is there ever really any certainty when it comes to Dorn? I mean, really!