MN Twins Get New Stadium!!

[Bison_Kent]

As a Twins' fan, I found this story to be great news. It looks like after several attempts in the Twin Cities area to get a baseball only stadium for the Twins, Hennipan County is finally going to make it a reality.

Here is the story from the Star-Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/509/5383177.html

[JACKGUYII]

I watched most of the hearing and this is not done yet. Next stop will be the legislature where there will be more grandstanding. If it passes the legislature then it goes back to the Hennepin County for a final vote. There are three women on the council opposed to the stadium and four men in favor.

[greenandgold01]

The biggest enemy of this bill will be a public vote.

If the people get to have a say, it'll go down in flames.

[jjbluecw]

The biggest enemy of this bill will be a public vote.

If the people get to have a say, it'll go down in flames.

I agree. Any popular vote to raise taxes will be shot down much like we saw here in fargo.
Hopefully it doesn't come to a referendum.

[greenandgold01]

That really should tell the Twins owner Carl Pohlad something: build the stadium with your own damned money you jerk off!!!!

It's not like you have $2 billion, is it??!!

[jjbluecw]

That really should tell the Twins owner Carl Pohlad something: build the stadium with your own damned money you jerk off!!!!

It's not like you have $2 billion, is it??!!

He won't build it with his own money because he could move the team somewhere else where they will build with public funds.

[02Bison]

That really should tell the Twins owner Carl Pohlad something: build the stadium with your own damned money you jerk off!!!!

It's not like you have $2 billion, is it??!!

He may have a lot of wealth, but the majority of it isn't in highly liquid assets (i.e. his wealth isn't all cash or easily converted to cash). I don't know where exactly to stand on the whole publicly financed stadium issue. Wouldn't the taxpayers of the county technically own it?Shouldn't the Twins have to pay rent to use it? Just questions I've never really thought about before....

[JACKGUYII]

The Hennepin County Council already shot down the referendum idea because they know it has no chance.

[02Bison]

The Hennepin County Council already shot down the referendum idea because they know it has no chance.

3 cents tax on $20 and only in one county...wow, that's such a huge cost for people to bear..... ??? Does anyone know if its like the local taxes in Fargo with a cap on it...(i.e. only the first $2500 of any given purchase is taxable)? If so, there is nothing to lose with this tax. If people can't afford that pocket change, they are fooling themselves. They are just people who cringe and automatically vote "no" the second they hear the word tax. Isn't America great!?!?

[greenandgold01]

That 3 cents becomes $30 dollars per $20k income. That's added onto normal taxes.

30 bucks is 10 extra gallons of milk.

[greenandgold01]

He may have a lot of wealth, but the majority of it isn't in highly liquid assets (i.e. his wealth isn't all cash or easily converted to cash). I don't know where exactly to stand on the whole publicly financed stadium issue. Wouldn't the taxpayers of the county technically own it?Shouldn't the Twins have to pay rent to use it? Just questions I've never really thought about before....


He can sell his stocks at anytime he wants. He might not exactly get the price he wants, but he could get at least a billion dollars if he sold everything he has.

[02Bison]

That 3 cents becomes $30 dollars per $20k income. That's added onto normal taxes.


Its a sales tax, not an income tax!

[greenandgold01]

Its a sales tax, not an income tax!

The calculations still apply.

I wouldn't be suprised if the average Hennipen resident spends $20k a year on taxable items.

[02Bison]

Wow, either way...$30 on $20,000 really breaks the bank... ::)

[JACKGUYII]

He can sell his stocks at anytime he wants. He might not exactly get the price he wants, but he could get at least a billion dollars if he sold everything he has.

I'm now convinced the author of this quote is none other than Bison1234

[02Bison]

I'm now convinced the author of this quote is none other than Bison1234


I think you are correct!

[greenandgold01]

Wow, either way...$30 on $20,000 really breaks the bank... ::)


I never said anything about breaking any banks.

$30 doesn't seem like much to a Twins fan (and I am one, and no it's nothing).

But to a non Twins fan, $30 is a significant amount of money.

[02Bison]

The calculations still apply.

I wouldn't be suprised if the average Hennipen resident spends $20k a year on taxable items.

The average resident also drops their pennies from change in the little cup by the register too. *This is a tax of *substantially less than a penny per dollar. *Your argument doesn't hold water! *Are you a member of the freemen (i.e. enjoy and expect the frills of society, but refuse to pay for them)? *

[greenandgold01]

The average resident also drops their pennies from change in the little cup by the register too.

No they don't. Why would you assume this anyway about an entire county when I doubt you yourself even do it. I know I don't do it and I don't know anyone else that does it.


This is a tax of substantially less than a penny per dollar. Your argument doesn't hold water! Are you a member of the freemen (i.e. enjoy and expect the frills of society, but refuse to pay for them)?

Taxes for police, fire, health care, etc. are not at all comparable to a new facility for a private entitiy.

::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

I guess the taxpayers should pay for my new house too!

[02Bison]

Were you against the Fargo Dome tax too, greenandgold01? Well I agree its a shame that stadiums seem to be only get built if publicly funded I also realize that these stadiums do bring people and money to town. Plus, it would be owned by the County, not the Twins. How can this possibly be a losing situation for anyone involved? 3 cents tax on $20...if that's too much, your problems are much greater than a 0.15% percent sales tax.

[greenandgold01]

It's not a problem, it's the principle.

[02Bison]

It's not a problem, it's the principle.

Paying fractions of a penny for something the general public can enjoy and own collectively...what's wrong with that principle?

[greenandgold01]

Paying fractions of a penny for something the general public can enjoy and own collectively...what's wrong with that principle?


Because the Twins are not a public entitiy.

Sans the Twins (something that isn't even guaranteed with a new stadium!) there is no purpose for this new ballpark.

What good does it do the citizens of Hennipen county to own a ballpark with no team to play in it?


Using your same logic, there is no good reason why the citizens of Cass county can all enjoy owning a peice of my new multi million dollar mansion! Of course, I'll get to have exclusive rights to it and use it as I please, but they'll get to enjoy it as a publically built place!

HAhahaha!

[02Bison]

Because the Twins are not a public entitiy.

Sans the Twins (something that isn't even guaranteed with a new stadium!) there is no purpose for this new ballpark.

What good does it do the citizens of Hennipen county to own a ballpark with no team to play in it?


Using your same logic, there is no good reason why the citizens of Cass county can all enjoy owning a peice of my new multi million dollar mansion! Of course, I'll get to have exclusive rights to it and use it as I please, but they'll get to enjoy it as a publically built place!

HAhahaha!

Like it or not, they are good for the local economy. My logic is for public buildings, not private buildings. Come clean and reveal your true identity...1234? Siouxmenow? Who are you?

[roadwarrior]

I will not post any comment that in any way would dispute anything greenandgold says 8)

As a resident of Hennepin County, I am 100% behind the current Twins stadium proposal.

[greenandgold01]

I will not post any comment that in any way would dispute anything greenandgold says 8)

As a resident of Hennepin County, I am 100% behind the current Twins stadium proposal.


If I lived in Hennepin County, I would vote for it too.

But does us wanting it mean that the people who also live in Hennepin County and don't want it should be forced to pay for it too? Of course not.

Only those who want it should be forced to pay for it.

[greenandgold01]

Like it or not, they are good for the local economy. My logic is for public buildings, not private buildings. Come clean and reveal your true identity...1234? Siouxmenow? Who are you?


Public builds are fine and good! And needed too! Roads, bridges, parks, etc. All that good stuff.


However, building a building just for the sake of building it is ludicrous! There needs to be a universally enjoyable purpose to it. Not just a sports fan enjoyable purpose.

I am greenandgold01.

[02Bison]

They think its a win/win for both the twins and the downtown economy greenandgold01...they don't just want to build this for the sake of building it.

[JBB]

I stayed in Memphis this week and the lodging tax was $25/day. That was significant. $30 is 10 gallons of milk. Are you for taking that away from hungry children?

[greenandgold01]

They think its a win/win for both the twins and the downtown economy greenandgold01...they don't just want to build this for the sake of building it.

The building won't do jack for any economy if there isn't a purpose for people to come there.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Great for the TWINS. They deserve it!

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

g&g01, I see what you're saying but you're basing it on the assumption that the team will leave. I believe that they are making the Twins sign a contract to stay if they build it aren't they? Yes, if they built it and then the team left it would be a disaster, but with the team there it will be a hit.

Another thing, this stadium NEEDS a retractable roof! They need to do what they have to to get a retr. roof on it otherwise they are asking for trouble in the future.

[greenandgold01]

I believe that they are making the Twins sign a contract to stay if they build it aren't they? Yes, if they built it and then the team left it would be a disaster, but with the team there it will be a hit.

This is exactly what I'm getting at, thank you.

Another possibility (although it seems remote now) is MLB contraction.

What if MLB simply decides that the Twins need to go?

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

I think that the contraction bit is gone for good. If it was still around I think the Expos would have died before going to DC. PLus if they were to get a new stadium there is no way in hell MLB would then pull the Twins out! No way in hell! If they did that the government would step in.

You know, I was just thinking, remember when there was all that contraction talk and it was in the paper all the time and all over the news? I think that might have had more press and been talked about more then the possablility of the bases in ND closing. That's sad!

[greenandgold01]

Still, knowing Pohlad, what if this new stadium gets built, then Pohlad sells the team for a nice chunk to some guy who could care less that moves the team to San Antonio or Las Vegas?


Not only that, but I simply don't udnerstand why everyone in the county should have to pay for it when not everyone in the county will enjoy it?


Those are my big two reasons to not have the government pay for it.

[02Bison]

Still, knowing Pohlad, what if this new stadium gets built, then Pohlad sells the team for a nice chunk to some guy who could care less that moves the team to San Antonio or Las Vegas?


Not only that, but I simply don't udnerstand why everyone in the county should have to pay for it when not everyone in the county will enjoy it?


Those are my big two reasons to not have the government pay for it.

Its a 0.15% flipping tax...what's such a big deal about that? Everyone in the county is going to be paying so much for this ::)...yeah right! The only people/businesses for which a 0.15% amounts to a sizable amount of money, are the ones who have a lot of money and for whom such purchases are immaterial even though they may seem sizable to people like you greenngold01. If a 0.15% tax is too much for you, I feel sorry for you.

[greenandgold01]

Any percentage taxation without representation is unconstitutional.

I don't care if it's .00000000000000015%.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Any percentage taxation without representation is unconstitutional.

I don't care if it's .00000000000000015%.


Oh no...........1234 rides again........

[JACKGUYII]

Any percentage taxation without representation is unconstitutional.

I don't care if it's .00000000000000015%.

You can change your name but your stupidity always gives up your true identity.

[greenandgold01]

You can change your name but your stupidity always gives up your true identity.


Interstingly enough, North Dakota and South Dakota are supposidly red states.

You must be a hold over from the Daschle administration.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

I don't know guys, maybe I'm softening up, but I think g&g01 has a point on this one. *I, for one, would love a new stadium and think the Twins need one, but I always find it a tough subject when public money goes into a facility, such as this, that can handle only one event or one team.

Are the people of Hennipen county going to be asked for another tax hike in 5 years when the Vikes need a new stadium?

[greenandgold01]

I too want the Twins to get a stadium and I hope they do get one.

But I want to see that the people who are going to be paying for it will get to vote on it.

Or, as has been done already by the New England Pats and could've been done at any time by Pohlad in the last 10 years, build one privately.

[greenandgold01]

Are the people of Hennipen county going to be asked for another tax hike in 5 years when the Vikes need a new stadium?

That would be Anoka county if the Blaine stadium gets approved.


But what about the new Gopher stadium? There's another tax hike!

[roadwarrior]

The Hennepin County Commissioners are voted on by the residents of the county to make decisions for us. We elect them to represent us to make decisions. Should every decision to spend tax dollars be put to a vote of the residents of the county? If that happened, I dont think the voters would approve of the hundreds of millions of $$ that Hennepin County spent in ONE YEAR for welfare.

I believe that in the current proposal, MLB must guarantee that a team will remain in Minnesota for 30 years.

[sornball]

I am all for the stadium, but I do see a major problem with using the public money. A new stadium would raise the value of the franchise. Who is to say that as soon as the stadium is built Pohlad won't turn around and sell the franchise. You can't forget that we are talking about a man who made his fortune forclosing homes during the Great Depression. Can you justify using public money to turn a significant profit for the private sector?

[greenandgold01]

I believe that in the current proposal, MLB must guarantee that a team will remain in Minnesota for 30 years.

How will they guarantee that?


If, in fact, they could guarantee this in someway, it would make it easier for the county to approve it.

[BisonCountry]

How will they guarantee that?


If, in fact, they could guarantee this in someway, it would make it easier for the county to approve it.

I don't believe there is a guarantee, but there is something about Hennepin County getting a percentage of the sale price of the Twins if they are sold in the future.

[roadwarrior]

The following is taken from the stadium proposal:

The Team will agree to a no-escape, 30 year lease or use agreement, including specific performance remedies, agreement not to relocate and to oppose contraction. The Team will obtain from Major League Baseball approval of its lease or use agreement and such other assurances as Major League Baseball has provided in similar circumstances to other teams, and satisfactory to the County, regarding the Team’s continuing to play its games in the Ballpark. In the unlikely event that there is a contraction of the Team prior to the end of the 30 year term, the County shall be entitled to the lesser of (i) in a secured manner, 50% of the proceeds to the owner from such contraction or (ii) the damages suffered by the County for unrecovered public development costs and the unamortized public share of the Ballpark costs based on a 30 year period, net of any recovery of such amounts by the County.

[greenandgold01]

That sounds good in theory.

Let's see if it works out that way in actuallity.

[jjbluecw]

There is a much greater chance that the Twins will leave if a stadium isn't built. I hope they get this thing built now. Jacobs Field cost around $230 million to build. The price of building a stadium has doubled in 10 yrs.