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WYOBISONMAN
05-11-2005, 11:22 AM
Our buddy McFeely actually has a pretty acurate column on the issues that will be staring at the new UND AD when he takes over.....

Mike McFeely
The Forum - 05/11/2005


Thomas Buning will not meet with the media until Friday. That gives us, the jackals, plenty of time to formulate questions for the new University of North Dakota athletic director.

Such as:

- Do you have Ralph Engelstad Arena, Inc., on speed dial yet?

But seriously folks, amid all the talk of Division I, the future of Division II and the North Central Conference, fundraising, the nickname and whatever other issues UND faces, the most challenging for Buning might be the Sioux athletic department's relationship with REA, Inc.

REA controls both the Ralph and the Betty, arenas in which the Sioux hockey and basketball teams play. It, not unimportantly, dictates marketing and promotion of Sioux athletics. It also has a hand in other things, like ticketing.

It is a most odd relationship between a private entity and the athletic department of a public university. It can be frustrating, as former Sioux AD Roger Thomas will attest.

Throw in the fact UND's football team also plays in a non-university-controlled venue, the Alerus, and facilities become a major part of the daily battle.

How will Buning handle it?

- Did you have a plan in mind when you mentioned renewing UND's rivalry with North Dakota State, or were you just throwing ideas against the wall to see what stuck?

Quoted in an article in the Grand Forks Herald, Buning said restoring the Bison rivalry was "on the top of my plate."

He might want to return to the front of the buffet line and see what else is available.

In Fargo, home of NDSU, sentiment to play the Sioux again is nil.

At NDSU, where such decisions are made, sentiment to play the Sioux again might be less than nil.

Aside from Division I minimum standards that might hinder the rivalry's return as long as UND is D-II, there is an overwhelming sense among Bison coaches that athletic director Gene Taylor should tell the Sioux to take a hike should they come calling.

UND's decision to haughtily snub the Bison in 2004-05 doesn't sit well.

"I think he needs to get a little bit of a better feel for what is going on among the coaches in Grand Forks and what our feelings are. If he thinks there is going to be a welcome with open arms among our ranks and among our coaches, I think he'd be mistaken," Taylor said. "It's not as easy as it sounds. And I'll tell him that when I meet with him."

Buning, as a new guy, can be excused for not being in tune. When it comes to Sioux-Bison issues, he'll soon learn missteps aren't always so easily overlooked.

- Are you ready to play the hapless middle man in the endless will-they-or-won't-they, should-they-or-shouldn't-they clash over the Sioux and Division I?

Buning's president, Charles Kupchella, outwardly has no interest in Division I and his is the final say. Ditto some of his coaches. And boosters.

Yet some of his coaches, like ultra-successful football man Dale Lennon, are all for moving up. So are other coaches. And many boosters.

Buning, like his predecessor Thomas, is stuck in the middle. Can't speak out of turn and risk dissing Kupchella. Can't too harshly pooh-pooh Division I and alienate key staff and boosters.

He'll just have to ride that fence, no matter his personal feelings, and wait for word from above on what to publicly say and do.

Perhaps, given Buning's previous employer (the United States Military Academy), that might be one of the easier parts of a job that promises to be extremely difficult.

Bison_Dan
05-11-2005, 01:40 PM
First good column McFeely has written in a long time. I agree that Buning has a lot of fences to mend.

bisongold
05-11-2005, 02:03 PM
I still could care less if NDSU ever plays UND in anything ever again! Too much is made out of a rivalry that became too rabid and classless...something totally contrary to what sports should be about. Fortunately, I never witnessed the players getting out of hand for either team...only bottom-dwelling fans. No, this is one rivalry that I can do without. Would much prefer SDSU and Montana as rivals.

Sioux_Yeah_Yeah
05-11-2005, 03:04 PM
I still could care less if NDSU ever plays UND in anything ever again! *Too much is made out of a rivalry that became too rabid and classless...something totally contrary to what sports should be about. *Fortunately, I never witnessed the players getting out of hand for either team...only bottom-dwelling fans. *No, this is one rivalry that I can do without. * Would much prefer SDSU and Montana as rivals.

I thought the rivalry was great. *Sure there was classless acts and there was also that mutual hatred for each other that you just have to love. *But, it's like FSU-FLA or OSU-Mich * Like Rocky said, "you could go 1 and 10, but as long as that 1 is against those son of a guns your season is a success." *That's what I call a rivalry!

Of course if you're looking for handshakes and hugs after every game you aren't going to like a good rivalry.

JBB
05-11-2005, 03:08 PM
Great column. *Dr. Taylors words are true. *As Dirks Bently might say weve got a lot of scheduling left to do and it doesnt need to include a North Dakota DII school *

As a long time BISON fan, third generation graduate and financial contributor to NDSU I am behind him all the way. *Their treatment of NDSU has been less than shabby and was designed to inflict harm on our University. *It just isnt as easy as being a nice guy. *

Buning needs to visit Fargo all right, even before he finds out he works in Grand Forks. *$27.50 for his thoughts.

UND92
05-11-2005, 04:53 PM
Honestly, with all bitterness put aside, who would like to see the games between us played again? McFeely said there is "nil" interest in Fargo and less interest at ndsu. Michaels said last night on his radio show "let's face it, everybody in fargo want's the sioux-bison game". There is two different opinions from the media. Just wondering what the fans of both schools think. I know many bison fans are upset with UND's administration, but put that aside and honestly answer. I for one would like to see it continue. It is like no other game.

IowaBison
05-11-2005, 04:57 PM
Honestly, with all bitterness put aside, who would like to see the games between us played again? *McFeely said there is "nil" interest in Fargo and less interest at ndsu. *Michaels said last night on his radio show "let's face it, everybody in fargo want's the sioux-bison game". *There is two different opinions from the media. *Just wondering what the fans of both schools think. *I know many bison fans are upset with UND's administration, but put that aside and honestly answer. *I for one would like to see it continue. *It is like no other game.

In all honesty, I'd be just as excited for the rivalry game as I am for SDSU, Montana, or Montana State.

That's especially true until UND becomes an established DIAA program, which in all honesty, might never happen.

Do I want to see us beating up on some D2 team, even if it is UND? *Definitely not.

The best thing about the rivalry is that the teams were competitive especially in recent years and the games were good regardless of it being UND/NDSU.

I just don't see that being the case in the next ten years.

JBB
05-11-2005, 05:37 PM
I think NDSU needs to cultivate new relationships in our division. Its obvious we will be following the common DI-AA model and playing a lower division school most seasons. This seems to be the case for DI-A football schools as well. If we play anyone from North Dakota it should be Bismarck. Their program could use the boost.

roadwarrior
05-11-2005, 06:13 PM
Based on the number of posts on this site mentioning UND by Bison fans, it is quite apparent that there is a very high interest in continuing the rivalry. (Although no one seems brave enough to admit it)

This thread is in the "Bison Commons" area of Bisonville, and what do I see besides a bunch of topics related to UND! Maybe Tony should create a special section devoted to UND topics only. That way those Bison fans that cannot get UND off their minds can keep posting in that area and leave the rest of the bulletin board to what it was intended to be.

By the way, I would like to see the games between the Bison and Sioux return, but only after UND moves up to D-I.

JACKGUYII
05-11-2005, 06:14 PM
Honestly, with all bitterness put aside, who would like to see the games between us played again? *McFeely said there is "nil" interest in Fargo and less interest at ndsu. *Michaels said last night on his radio show "let's face it, everybody in fargo want's the sioux-bison game". *There is two different opinions from the media. *Just wondering what the fans of both schools think. *I know many bison fans are upset with UND's administration, but put that aside and honestly answer. *I for one would like to see it continue. *It is like no other game.

I think the memories of the cold shoulder treatment by UND and USD towards the State U's after our move to DI will not die anytime soon. In five years if USD and UND want to come to Brookings and Fargo for an ass wupping than I say fine! They need us a lot more than we need them. When we did need them they were pouting in the corner!

mikelsch
05-11-2005, 06:55 PM
I like when we are playing DI (or I-AA) opponents. Could care less about lower level teams. Last year, sue said they wouldn't play us because we were in a different division, this concept hasn't changed.

tony
05-11-2005, 07:57 PM
I am tremendously optimistic that Thomas Buning is the kind of guy who can provide the type of leadership that will detoxify UND's athletic department (esp. Glas, Roebuck, and Harmeson). If UND's athletic department shapes up, I'd be all for a game.

While I'd prefer the football games to be held in Fargo until such time as UND moves up, if NDSU wants to take the high road on that issue, I'd be fine with it.

For other sports, I'd prefer to leave scheduling up to the coaches, but the football game is a big deal in North Dakota and deserves special consideration. As long as we are scheduling DII teams, I think we have to consider scheduling UND.

sornball
05-11-2005, 09:08 PM
The deal with REA in the article makes no sense. Since the monies are controlled by REA, the state can't touch them. This means a larger contribution to the athletic department.

WYOBISONMAN
05-11-2005, 10:21 PM
I would support the rivalry returning too. A return to playing UND has absolutely no downside for NDSU. D2 or D1 UND is worth beating any day of the week. I also support a home and home with UND. However, they were to have played the last one at NDSU, and at NDSU is where the rivalry needs to resume.

NDSU gains nothing by acting as poorly as UND did over our jump to D1. But, we have a lot to gain in playing a game that will put a huge number of fans in the seats as a UND game will.

sornball
05-11-2005, 11:14 PM
I would support the rivalry returning too. *A return to playing UND has absolutely no downside for NDSU. *D2 or D1 UND is worth beating any day of the week. *I also support a home and home with UND. *However, they were to have played the last one at NDSU, and at NDSU is where the rivalry needs to resume. *

NDSU gains nothing by acting as poorly as UND did over our jump to D1. *But, we have a lot to gain in playing a game that will put a huge number of fans in the seats as a UND game will. *

Agreed, UND did act childishly before, but at the same time NDSU put UND in that position and the rivalry was ruined by them. It would be a huge step for NDSU to say yes we will help you out even though you didn't help us. The rivalry is what really matters here and the vast majority of fans want to see it renewed.

DIBISON
05-11-2005, 11:37 PM
Great article, all valid issues. The rivalry will continue when und goes DI. The only other way would be for und to come to Fargo for all games as long as they are DII. A DI isn't going to travel to DII even if it is a rival.

MinotBison
05-12-2005, 12:07 AM
In all honesty, I'd be just as excited for the rivalry game as I am for SDSU, Montana, or Montana State.

That's especially true until UND becomes an established DIAA program, which in all honesty, might never happen.

Do I want to see us beating up on some D2 team, even if it is UND? *Definitely not.

The best thing about the rivalry is that the teams were competitive especially in recent years and the games were good regardless of it being UND/NDSU.

I just don't see that being the case in the next ten years.





I would want to see us beating up on a DII school only if it were UND. ;D

SDbison
05-12-2005, 01:10 AM
I would support the rivalry returning too. *A return to playing UND has absolutely no downside for NDSU. **
I support the rivalry in football returning, but would prefer it happen after UND is in DI-AA football for a few years. I disagree that there is no downside playing DII UND. Actually, NDSU has everything to lose (possible upset) and even if NDSU won the three years before UND's change to DI-AA and the three years after that you know what the comments would be out of Grand Forks.......NDSU won because of the additional scholarships.

Tatanka
05-12-2005, 02:54 AM
Must.... fight.... urge.... to.... agree with McFeeley.... :-X :P Too late, he's right.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind playing und* again, but on our terms (and in our buildings at first), and only after a public mea culpa for their douchebaggery since we made the move.

Having said that, it would appear as if the Bison coaches still feel a bit chapped in the buttocks about the whole deal. Can't blame them one bit.

kchats
05-12-2005, 04:55 AM
I'm glad the Bison coaches and administration feel the same way I do about UND. They tried to stick it to us last year by refusing to play us when we needed games in our transition year and they only publicly mentioned that they were interested in playing us again this year because they knew we wouldn't. They were sticking it to us again. Their coaches and administration have done nothing during our move but naysay and accuse NDSU of making a huge mistake. I would rather cultivate our true rival SDSU and partner in this move to division I. SDSU, Northern Colorado and Cal-Davis are going to be connected with NDSU for years to come because we moved up together. SDSU has been a great partner in the move to division I and I look forward to developing a respectful rivalry with them. I enjoyed the satellite broadcast last season with SDSU fans. UND does not deserve a game against NDSU. If they move to division I NDSU better stick it to them when they are in the transition year where scheduling is tough. I agree wholeheartedly with Jackguy when he says our new rivals are NDSU ours is SDSU. I don't anticipate NDSU playing any division II schools after this season. I think they will play division I-A schools instead.

JBB
05-12-2005, 05:18 AM
kchats,

perfect words were never spoken. Who are they anyway? Never heard of them.

kchats
05-12-2005, 05:25 AM
They is two different schools.

They that might move to division I is UND. That is the they that NDSU needs to stick it to in their transition year.

They in the final sentence refering to playing division I-A games is NDSU. Starting with the 2006 football schedule I expect NDSU to start playing division I-A schools for a big payday. Why pay a division II school to play us when we can make good money playing a division I-A school.

JBB
05-12-2005, 05:34 AM
I think we will play a DII and a DI-A team. *

DII because we want a reasonable guarantee, a warmup game, and a huge gate with good weather and great tailgating. *Great BISON Football in the traditional sense of the classic rought*.

DI-A for the challenge of big money football against the nations best.

*the rought is a great BISON FOOTBALL tradition, officially defined as a 3 TD lead at the end of any half......The Golden Arm Committee

sornball
05-12-2005, 06:31 PM
I support the rivalry in football returning, but would prefer it happen after UND is in DI-AA football for a few years. *I disagree that there is no downside playing DII UND. *Actually, NDSU has everything to lose (possible upset) and even if NDSU won the three years before UND's change to DI-AA and the three years after that you know what the comments would be out of Grand Forks.......NDSU won because of the additional scholarships. *

The argument wouldn't be scholarships it would be you are DI, you're supposed to win.

BisBison
05-13-2005, 12:08 AM
Great article, all valid issues. *The rivalry will continue when und goes DI. *The only other way would be for und to come to Fargo for all games as long as they are DII. *A DI isn't going to travel to DII even if it is a rival. *
++ and they better come on bended knee. >:(

ndsubison
05-14-2005, 07:03 PM
Agreed, UND did act childishly before, but at the same time NDSU put UND in that position and the rivalry was ruined by them. *It would be a huge step for NDSU to say yes we will help you out even though you didn't help us. *The rivalry is what really matters here and the vast majority of fans want to see it renewed.


NOW you think it would be a "huge step" for NDSU to "help out" und? Sorry buddy, that train left town a long time ago. Six months ago the und cronies couldn't shut up about how NDSU was so stupid to go DI but as of late you've all been warming up to the idea. Face it--just like Coopchella said--you cannot stand the idea of NDSU being regarded more highly than you in any way whatsoever. I am not in favor of playing the game and I sincerely hope that your eventual attempt at DI bankrupts your athletic department, waters down your beloved hookey program and you become a laughingstock for the entire state. After how your administration and fans have acted about all of this, it is what you deserve. GO BISON!! Sioux who?

SDbison
05-14-2005, 07:23 PM
NOW you think it would be a "huge step" for NDSU to "help out" und? *Sorry buddy, that train left town a long time ago. *Six months ago the und cronies couldn't shut up about how NDSU was so stupid to go DI but as of late you've all been warming up to the idea. *Face it--just like Coopchella said--you cannot stand the idea of NDSU being regarded more highly than you in any way whatsoever. *I am not in favor of playing the game and I sincerely hope that your eventual attempt at DI bankrupts your athletic department, waters down your beloved hookey program and you become a laughingstock for the entire state. *After how your administration and fans have acted about all of this, it is what you deserve. *GO BISON!! *Sioux who?

I agree, except starting a couple years after UND's move to DI (when they are struggling to get their programs going on a limited budget ) NDSU should play them and kick their butt in all sports for about ten years.

JBB
05-15-2005, 08:31 PM
Helping would be a huge mistake. Remember the on line pharmacy program? A fine example of their idea of cooperation. I dont see them being an asset for us in any way with regards to Division I. We have our travel partner and can fill our schedule in all sports without them. We will form a new conference or be invited into an existing one in the next year. I think we have demonstrated without a doubt they are not needed.

As far as any future game? I would only want to see NDSU provide the guarantee money and help those regional schools that have maintained mutually supportive relationships with us.

scottheck
05-17-2005, 02:05 AM
"Whether you think this was a shot or not, whether you want the rivalry again or not, you(whoever you are) will have to face the fact that it is over, institutionally, for quite some time; for the very reasons NDSU is finding scheduling during the transition tough. When scheduling DI schools, there are many other issues that aren't as prevalent in the other divisions: guarantees, return trips, the fact that major schools schedule 3-4 years out.

If, and if so, however long it takes to make the decision, UND goes DI, NDSU will have moved on in it's scheduling. Free dates will be few and far between. If it's 3 or 4 years, NDSU may then have a conference with a non-conference schedule of guarantee and home/away games.

It's for that reason, our athletic administration told us this weekend, there is no interest at NDSU in restarting the rivalry.

In addition, NDSU athletic administration is taking a leadership role in corraling the remaining DI independents into a new conference. "

Copied from my post under the GF Herald thread in Smacktalk... as appropriate here.

JBB
05-17-2005, 03:17 AM
In five yrs we should have enough contractual relationships in DI sports to schedule much easier, conference or not. *As a result NDSU is going to have some really big games in all sports happen in Fargo. Probably two football sellouts and BB has huge upside. *

When it comes to the regional DIIs, lets reward those programs that maintain mutually respectful relationships with us. *We have a lot of cash to offer those programs for some interesting games in Fargo. *If my program were hundreds of thousand of dollars in the red I would be trying to rekindle the rivalry too. *It just isnt that easy.

Dr. Taylors job would be the best in Fargo, running the scheduling for the biggest draw in town.