New Conference??

[Bison_Kent]

Here is a story out of Utah, mainly on Utah Valley State but it looks like the Independent Team Conference might be in the future.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600118679,00.html

Although the story does not include NDSU or SDSU, I would assume that the two would be a part of the 11 schools.

I believe the schools would be as follows:
NDSU
SDSU
Utah Valley State
Indiana-Fort Wayne
Longwood (Virginia)
Texas A&M-Corpis Christi
Texas-Pan American
Savannah State (Georgia)
Northern Colorado ??
Winston Salem State (North Carolina) ??
Central Arkansas ??

The last three I am guessing at. Winston Salem and Central Arkansas are two schools looking at moving up next year. UNC may get into the Big Sky so I put them as questionable too.

From UVSC AD quote, four of the eleven schools that are talking play football so I would guess UNC would be a part of it. NDSU, SDSU, UNC and Savannah State have football.

[greenandgold01]

Perhaps they could lure UNC away from the Big Sky (if they get invited) and SUU away from the Mid Con?

NDSU
SDSU
UNC
SUU
UVSU
IP FW
LU

That would make a decent conference. I wouldn't want to add any southern teams because of travel costs.

I also think that WSSU and CAU might get called on by the Southland because they play football.

[JBB]

I dont think UNC will be part of this. They are going to the BSC, at least I havent seen anything that would indicate differently. I like this conference set-up. Its very clear to me that NCAA DI needs another conference. Lets get it formed and then see if the future will bring about reorganization that will provide more geographical economy of scale.

[greenandgold01]

I dont think UNC will be part of this. They are going to the BSC, at least I havent seen anything that would indicate differently. I like this conference set-up. Its very clear to me that NCAA DI needs another conference. Lets get it formed and then see if the future will bring about reorganization that will provide more geographical economy of scale.


I think you're exactly right.

Get the 32nd conference made. Then let the conferences shuffle around until all the DI teams have a more regional fit.

[NDSU_grad]

It would be next to impossible to lure an existing conference member into a new conference that doesn't have an NCAA auto-bid. In order for a conference to get an auto-bid in bball it needs to have seven members who have been DI for eight years and six members who have played together in that conference for five years. In other words, the soonest a new conference would receive an auto-bid would be five years from the date of inception.

[greenandgold01]

It would be next to impossible to lure an existing conference member into a new conference that doesn't have an NCAA auto-bid. In order for a conference to get an auto-bid in bball it needs to have seven members who have been DI for eight years and six members who have played together in that conference for five years. In other words, the soonest a new conference would receive an auto-bid would be five years from the date of inception.


DI needs a 32nd conference, no?

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

What is your guys reasoning behind saying that the NCAA or D1 needs/wants another conference? I just don't see any info leading to this assumption. Is there any evidence to back it?

[NDSU_grad]

DI needs a 32nd conference, no?

Why? ???

[JBB]

Lots of independents that arent being absorbed indicates to me that a new conference is needed. Get it formed, get the clock ticking for the auto bid (its not ticking now) and wait and see what will happen. this isnt about tomorrow or even next yr. Its about the long term future.

[greenandgold01]

Why? ???


Why not? There are a bunch of independants out there that have no where to go. No conferences want them.

[NDSU_grad]

Why should the rest of DI care if these schools have a conference or not? IMO, it's in the best interest of DI schools to not have these schools form a conference, since that would mean less tournament money for them. The rules about auto-bids are strict for a reason.

[JBB]

As you suggest a conference has the luxury of being selfish, I dont think the NCAA has that luxury.

Heres what the forum has to say about it this morning:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=86042&section=Sports

[Stunnedmonkey]

A little note on IPFW, they are in the final stages of their head basketball coaching search and rumors have it that Dane Fife (IU alum) is possibly going to get that. Might bring some more national press as well as some good competition to a newly formed conference.

[Paulie]

The article says nine met but it only lists eight, I wonder who is missing?

Anyway, I think NDSU, SDSU, Utah Valley, IUPU Fort Wayne, TAM Corpus Christi and the University of Texas-Pan American are a strong foundation for a conference.

I'd say forget Longwood they are too far away and Savananah is too far away and a disgrace. But, would be some easy wins every year... let's get Savannah in the Great West! :-X

[BisonCountry]

The article says nine met but it only lists eight, I wonder who is missing? *


If it wasn't a typo I would guess it was either Winston-Salem or Central Arkansas.

I don't think these schools would provide the greatest conference, but I don't know how much longer we can wait on the better solution of Missouri Valley, Mid-Con, Big Sky, etc...taking us in.

[kchats]

NDSU should only become a member of this conference if they can do the same thing as they did with the Great West Conference, no penalty for leaving for a better conference. I truly believe that NDSU and SDSU will be invited to join the Big Sky later this year.

[Bisonguy]

*I truly believe that NDSU and SDSU will be invited to join the Big Sky later this year.

I won't be holding my breath....

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would say in a couple years.....

[Bison_Kent]

I agree that this new conference would likely just be a temporary solution. But I don't see the harm in it. Just like the Great West for football, NDSU will be playing these independent teams any way. Might as well count them as conference opponents.

Here is a little info on the eight known teams to be talking after doing a little research:

Savannah State
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Nickname: Tigers
Student Pop: 2,700
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Bowling (women), Cross Country (Men's & Women's), Football, Golf (men's & women's), Softball, Tennis (women's), Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball (Women's)

Longwood
Location: Farmville, Virginia (64 miles from Richmond)
Nickname: Lancers
Student Pop: 3,700
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Golf (men's & women's), Lacrosse (women's), Soccer (men's & women's), Softball, Tennis (men's & women's)

Utah Valley State
Location: Orem, Utah (40 miles from Salt Lake City)
Nickname: Wolverines
Student Pop: 17,048
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Golf (men's), Soccer (women's), Softball, Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball (women's), Wrestling

Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Nickname: Mastodons
Student Pop: 11,757
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Golf (men's & women's), Soccer (men's & women's), Softball, Tennis (men's & women's), Track & Field (women's), Volleyball (men's & women's)

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Nickname: Islanders
Student Pop: 8,227
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Golf (women's), Softball, Tennis (Men's & Women's), Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball

Texas-Pan American
Location: Edinburg, Texas (150 miles from Corpus Christi or 64 miles from Brownsville)
Nickname: Broncos
Student Pop: 16,154
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Golf (men's & women's), Tennis (Men's & Women's), Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball

South Dakota State
Location: Brookings, SD (70 miles from Sioux Falls)
Nickname: Jackrabbits
Student Pop: ~10,000
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Equestion, Football, Golf (men's & women's), Soccer (women's), Softball, Swimming (men's & women's), Tennis (Men's & Women's), Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball, Wrestling

North Dakota State
Location: Fargo, ND
Nickname: Bison
Student Pop: 12,026
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Football, Golf (men's & women's), Soccer (women's), Softball, Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball, Wrestling

[JBB]

very nice group of schools. *Thanks Kent.

In seven short yrs we could be playing for our own auto bids and have our conference fate in our own hands.

[Paulie]

They all play Baseball, that is a huge benefit which the Big Sky doesn't offer. *

[Bison_Kent]

As far as baseball goes, this conference could be home heavy for the southern teams (two Texas schools, Savannah State, and Longwood) for the February/March timeframe and than be home heavy for the northern schools (NDSU, SDSU, IUPU-FW, and UVSC) in April/May from a conference game standpoint to allow better weather in the northern teams' home games.

[greenandgold01]

Obviously track and softball would be the same way.

I wouldn't put too much value on the size of a school's student body. Saint Cloud State has around 15k while Furman (who made the DIaa playoffs) has only around 3k.

I'd put more value on the size of markets that contain the school or are close to it.

[Paulie]

Just an update, there is an articel out of Ft. Wayne that lists Ney Jersey Tech instead of Savannah State.

I've never heard of New Jersey Tech...

Here is the link: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/sports/colleges/11159462.htm

[Siouxpreme]

So, to the average observer, or even to an informed one, which group is the step up?

Augustana vs Longwood
Minnesota State vs Pan American
Minnesota-Duluth vs Tex A&M - Corpus Christi
St. Cloud St. vs IPFW
South Dakota vs Utah Valley State
Nebraska-Omaha vs New Jersey Tech
North Dakota vs South Dakota State

The NCC is clearly more prestigious on all counts (academics, athletics, fan support, recognition, facilities) than this new trans-continental conference.

Actually, hope you can form a new conference, as your programs are going to need it.

[TheBisonator]

So, to the average observer, or even to an informed one, which group is the step up?

Augustana vs Longwood
Minnesota State vs Pan American
Minnesota-Duluth vs Tex A&M - Corpus Christi
St. Cloud St. vs IPFW
South Dakota vs Utah Valley State
Nebraska-Omaha vs New Jersey Tech
North Dakota vs South Dakota State

The NCC is clearly more prestigious on all counts (academics, athletics, fan support, recognition, facilities) than this new trans-continental conference.

Actually, hope you can form a new conference, as your programs are going to need it.


If the NCC is still sooooo prestigious, then all those NCC schools should've moved up with UNC, NDSU and SDSU to Division I.

[Bison_Kent]

Here is some info on NJIT (like what I did for the other schools):

New Jersey Institute of Technology
Location: Newark, New Jersey
Nickname: Highlanders
Student Pop: 8,249
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (Men's & Women's), Cross Country (Men's & Women's), Fencing (Men's & Women's), Soccer (men's & women's), Swimming (men's & women's), Tennis (men's & women's), Volleyball (men's & women's)

[IowaBison]

So, to the average observer, or even to an informed one, which group is the step up?

Augustana vs Longwood
Minnesota State vs Pan American
Minnesota-Duluth vs Tex A&M - Corpus Christi
St. Cloud St. vs IPFW
South Dakota vs Utah Valley State
Nebraska-Omaha vs New Jersey Tech
North Dakota vs South Dakota State

The NCC is clearly more prestigious on all counts (academics, athletics, fan support, recognition, facilities) than this new trans-continental conference.

Actually, hope you can form a new conference, as your programs are going to need it.



truth is most folks won't know any of these teams

and they sure as heck don't care if any D2 school has nice facilities or fan support

as bad as the worst DI schools or conferences may be, they are still DI and that 'signal' is worth a hell ova lot more than almost anything D2 can have or can do

[BisonMav]

truth is most folks won't know any of these teams

and they sure as heck don't care if any D2 school has nice facilities or fan support

as bad as the worst DI schools or conferences may be, they are still DI and that 'signal' is worth a hell ova lot more than almost anything D2 can have or can do

Well said NDB

[JBB]

Im not sure why the NCC is brought up, but this conference is much better especially when you consider its companion the GWFC.

I am more in favor of staying with the GWFC and starting this new conference - maybe we could call it the American Collegiate Athletic Conference - than joining an exitisting conference. * the new conference would eventually have its own auto bid, a huge asset. *It would fill an obvious need in Division 1. *It would give new divisional members a place to go. *It may also help with some geographical shuffeling that may be needed for some conferences.

It seems to me that as more schools move into Division 1 there wont be any conferences that have room for them. *Division 1 needs another conference if it is going to continue to absorb universities that find themselves in a position to move from a lower division.

[Siouxpreme]

as bad as the worst DI schools or conferences may be, they are still DI and that 'signal' is worth a hell ova lot more than almost anything D2 can have or can do

Are you the same posters that were claiming NDSU was too good for the Mid-Continent, saying a school as good as NDSU will get better conference opportunities, and now you are reduced to forming a conference with the dregs of DI?

The mental gymnastics you must be doing to deal with NDSUs continued rejection and yet still put on a brave face is something to behold.

[Siouxpreme]

I am more in favor of staying with the GWFC and starting this new conference - maybe we could call it the American Collegiate Athletic Conference - than joining an exitisting conference. * the new conference would eventually have its own auto bid, a huge asset. *It would fill an obvious need in Division 1. *It would give new divisional members a place to go. *It may also help with some geographical shuffeling that may be needed for some conferences.
Case in point on the mental gymnastics.

Does anyone on this forum actually believe this kind of drivel? If this had been proposed when DI was first announced, Chapman would have been run out of town.

[norm4life]

this potential conference would have to be a temporary thing. i think attendance would be poor for a bison vs. savannah state basketball game. or against most of those potential schools. I think staying independent is better, instead of joining a new "doormat" conference.

[Bisonguy]

Who's to say this proposed conference won't be better than some other mid-major conferences, such as the Big Sky?

The GWFC was supposedly a thrown-together, hodge-podge conference, but ended up being the second best I-AA conference in it's first year of existence.

As long as there isn't a clause in the conference bylaws stating that NDSU would have to remain in this conference for the next 100 years, I say, "Do it!".

The Big Sky had their chance, now they can get beat up by another conference besides the GWFC.

[Bison_Kent]

I agree that this conference is not the ultimate solution as far as conferences go but it does fill a need for the time being.

These schools will be playing each other anyway so why not just call it a conference. It fills each of these schools needs for the time being until a more regional conference comes calling.

This new conference idea sounds similar to the Mid Con to me. It is not much further in geographical region and I think it could be similar in quality of play.

I am all for it for right now.

[Bisonguy]

They all play Baseball, that is a huge benefit which the Big Sky doesn't offer. *

Women's softball, as well. That's a sport that NDSU has a chance at having some early DI success in, especially with a conference.

[Bisonguy]

I'd say forget Longwood they are too far away and Savananah is too far away and a disgrace. *But, would be some easy wins every year... let's get Savannah in the Great West! * :-X *

Not so much of a rebuttal about travel distances, but more of a springboard to post this:

Big Sky Travel for NDSU:

Fargo to Missoula- 952 miles
Fargo to Bozeman- 750 miles
Fargo to Cheney- 1165 miles
Fargo to Pocatello -998 miles
Fargo to Flagstaff- 1726 miles
Fargo to Portland- 1500 miles
Fargo to Sacramento- 1706 miles
Fargo to Ogden- 1126 miles

Average- 1240 miles



Proposed Conference Travel for NDSU:

Fargo to Farmville, VA- 1500 miles (Longwood)
Fargo to Orem, UT- 1207 miles (Utah Valley State)
Fargo to Fort Wayne, IN- 846 miles (IPFW)
Fargo to Corpus Christi, TX- 1482 miles (Texas A&M- Corpus Christi)
Fargo to Edinburg, TX- 1574 miles (Texas-Pan Am)
Fargo to Savannah, GA-1611 miles (Savannah State)

Average-1370 miles

Not much difference, other than the proposed conference would have some teams closer to NDSU's recruiting area. SDSU was left out, because they would be a common member in either conference. If SDSU is included in the numbers, the average travel distance for NDSU would be 1123 miles for the Big Sky and 1201 for the proposed conference.

The unknown would be the travel distance for an independent schedule for baseball and softball (Big Sky scenario). Quite a few games scheduled in a season, and not much for guarantees. :-/

[TheBisonator]

Seems like Hector International Airport would be NDSU Atlhetics' best friend in either case. :-/

[greenandgold01]

Seems like Hector International Airport would be NDSU Atlhetics' best friend in either case. :-/


Are their international flights out of Hector? I thought it only went to Mpls., Chicago, and Denver.

[Trimmy]

That's what we need. Someone to donate a jet.

[runtheoption]

G&G01,

I think it maybe is an international airport because UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. may have flights going from here into Canada. Could also be they have charter jets (Sun Country, Ryan Air/Trans Global) that fly directly to vacation destinations in Mexico. Or it could also be because the Air Guard jets can take off here and fly into foreign airspace and back.

All theories on my part.

[Bisonguy]

Are their international flights out of Hector? I thought it only went to Mpls., Chicago, and Denver.

I previously heard somebody state that Hector is a regional airport on here. :-/

If the Grand Forks Airport (http://www.gfkairport.com/index.html), the self-proclaimed "Busiest Commercial airport in North Dakota", can be considered an international airport with only daily flights to Minneapolis, then Hector is most definitely an international airport. *

[bisonranch]

G&G01,

I think it maybe is an international airport because UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. may have flights going from here into Canada. *

Or perhaps becaue the US Customs has an office there, or it has a nice ring to it. *(more theories)

I think any scheduling alliance beats hunting for an apponent every game. Hopefully it's temporary.

[TheBisonator]

I KNEW we'd get into the airport argument again!!! I knew it!! I knew it!! I knew it!!! ;D ;D ;D

[Bisonguy]

I KNEW we'd get into the airport argument again!!! I knew it!! I knew it!! I knew it!!! ;D ;D ;D

The names might change, but the arguments remain the same....... ;D ;D ;D

[JBB]

Speaking about the dregs of DI at least Bismarck St. Marys or upper Iowa werent mentioned as a possible great addition to the group. *Heck I didnt even see the UP schools from the GLIAC mentioned. *Were the Washington schools mentioned? *How about Minot? *

None of the schools mentioned as possible members of the new conference had to add they have facilities almost as good as a lot of DI schools or that a top recruit of theirs got a *lot of looks from some DI schools or better yet flunked out of a DI school and was moving down. *

When you find yourself doing those mental gymnastics you know your a dreg caught up in the small time. *;)* *

This is a great group of schools that will provide conference stability and in time an annual ticket to the NCAA tournament. *

[Bison_Kent]

Here are the records and attendence figures for the forementioned schools for the conference.

Longwood
Men's Basketball--800 avg/11 home dates
2004/2005 record--1-30

IPFW
Men's Basketball---2378/11 home dates
2004/2005 record--7-22

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Men's Basketball---2852/14 home dates
2004/2005 record--20-8

Texas-Pan American
Men's Basketball--1678/13 home dates
2004/2005 record--14-14

Savannah State
Men's Basketball--625/12 home dates
2004/2005 record--0-28

New Jersey Institute of Technology
Men's Basketball--192/11 home dates
2004/2005 record--11-15

Utah Valley State
Men's Basketball--1354/13 home dates
2004/2005 record--16-12

SDSU
Men's Basketball--1617/11 home dates
2004/2005 record--10-18

NDSU
Men's Basketball--1654/12 home dates
2004/2005 record--16-12

[greenandgold01]

Wow.

NJIT doesn't sound like a very exciting program. Are they DI?

[Bison_Kent]

I think NJIT is looking to move up, possibly next season to DI. From their website, they are still a DII school but plays DI soccer both in men's and women's.

[Charger]

South Dakota State
Location: Brookings, SD (70 miles from Sioux Falls)
Nickname: Jackrabbits
Student Pop: ~10,000
Sports: Baseball, Basketball (men's & women's), Cross Country (men's & women's), Equestion, Football, Golf (men's & women's), Soccer (women's), Softball, Swimming (men's & women's), Tennis (Men's & Women's), Track & Field (men's & women's), Volleyball, Wrestling


Brookings is actually 50 miles from Sioux Falls and our enrollment is just under 11,000 this year. *Not that this makes any difference, just though I would fill you in.

[Bisonguy]

Actually, Brookings to Sioux Falls is 59.45 miles on mapquest, so you're both wrong. :P

[Siouxpreme]

This is a great group of schools that will provide conference stability and in time an annual ticket to the NCAA tournament. * Was not one of the arguments to move up to enhance the academic reputation of NDSU by affiliating with peer group schools. How does this conference do that ? By associating with these schools, NDSUs reputation would certainly not be enhanced and arguably would decline. Surely there are many fine people and students at these schools, but they are not exactly the academic elites:

Longwood - Mary University in Bismarck would exceed this college
Utah Valley State - a large school but just a few years removed from Junior College status
Corpus Christi- relatively new school, not accademically distinquished by any stretch at the moment
Pan American - ditto
IPFW - commuter school, offers Indiana or Purdue degrees, offering IPFW degrees would decrease enrollment
NJ Insitute of Technology - maybe a peer in engineering

Again, I hope you guys can make this work, but every one of these schools would have no intention of staying long. Would not a core group of at least six of these schools have to stay together at least five years before an autobid is possible? Since there are not even six schools that are yet full NCAA members, add three more years before the clock even starts on the core group. Does that mean youd have an autobid in 2015?

[JBB]

I would hate to suggest that your narrow minded but we did move up with peer institutions, DI institutions. That was the point of my previous post. None of the peers being considered for the NCC are Division 1 schools and the comparision is absurd. Those are your peers.

Your efforts at ill will and dispursons cast on the idea are not surprising, just indicative of your mind set. Certainly not an opinion to be considered except along the fringes of this discussion.

[Siouxpreme]

I would hate to suggest that your narrow minded but we did move up with peer institutions, DI institutions. *That was the point of my previous post. *None of the peers being considered for the NCC are Division 1 schools and the comparision is absurd. *Those are your peers.

So why do the so-called peers (BSC, MidCon) want nothing to do with you? *Face it, you are forming a conference with rejects. *If Valley City State tomorrow said they were going DI, they would be in your conference too, no questions asked, no selection process needed. This conference just needs warm bodies with a pulse. Not that there is anything wrong with that. *Only JBB could spin that in a positive light.


Your efforts at ill will and dispursons cast on the idea are not surprising, just indicative of your mind set. *Certainly not an opinion to be considered except along the fringes of this discussion.

What was written here is hardly ill will, just writing what some bison fans dare not speak without being persecuted for their non-herd reasoning and intellect.

[JBB]

No, its ill will because your msg is always the same. *

NDSU and SDSU are Division 1 schools in the process of our transition attempting to form a conference with our Division 1 peers. *Of course we have to do it over your carping. * ;)

At the same time you are trying to strengthen the NCC with your aforementioned peers. Im sure some of which have recruits that got some looks and some others could probably hang with some DI schools. Thats your situation right now. Take your pick. NDSU has a future.

[greenandgold01]

Brookings is actually 50 miles from Sioux Falls and our enrollment is just under 11,000 this year. *Not that this makes any difference, just though I would fill you in.

http://education.yahoo.com/college/facts/8675.html

Not quite 10k, actually.

[IowaBison]

siouxpreme,

No one ever promised and few expected conference affiliation with the Big Sky or the Mid-Con at this point

WE ARE IN TRANSITION, MORON!

I do disagree with jbb, however.

und is right where it wants to be and right where it belongs with a bunch of also rans who glorify a second tier sport

[Rodentia]

The NCC has prestige in D-II. *There's nothing wrong with D-II, but every D-I conference - including this new one, if it is formed - is more prestigious than any D-II conference.

A new conference, in combination with the GWFC makes good sense, provided that NDSU can get out of this conference without difficulty when the opportunity arises to switch to a better conference affiliation.

[Bison_Kent]

Here is a map of the US showing the location of the schools and their given mascot logos.

http://members.cox.net/kschmidt16/new-di-conference.GIF

[Trimmy]

Nice, BK.

[greenandgold01]

Is NJIT even DI? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[Charger]

http://education.yahoo.com/college/facts/8675.html

Not quite 10k, actually.

This figure is 3-4 years old. Our fall enrollment this year was over 10,900. I can't find a link, but believe me it's true.

[greenandgold01]

This figure is 3-4 years old. Our fall enrollment this year was over 10,900. I can't find a link, but believe me it's true.

I'm pretty sure yahoo would have the right info.

Nice try though.

[bisonranch]

SDSU Enrollment: 10561

http://www.sdgreatprofits.com/LaborForce/education.htm

Bored on a snowy Saturday night, I found the same digits a few places.

[Bisonguy]

SDSU's enrollment number reported to the OPE for 2003/2004 was 10,566, while having 7,311 full-time undergraduate students. An enrollment of 10,900 for this year is pretty realistic.

Don't know what the deal is with the South Dakota schools, but it looks like have a large percentage of part-time students. By contrast, NDSU reported 11,623 for enrollment in 2003/2004, and 10,157 for full-time undergraduate students.

[Bisonguy]

SDSU Enrollment: 10561

http://www.sdgreatprofits.com/LaborForce/education.htm

Bored on a snowy Saturday night, I found the same digits a few *places.

Don't know how old those numbers are- This info from 2003/2004 shows larger numbers for some of the schools, and is what is reported to the US Office of Postsecondary Education- http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstList.asp

[bisonranch]

10954 http://www.sdsucollegian.com/news/2004/10/19/FrontPageNews/Sdsu-Approaches.11000.In.Record.Enrollment-773518.shtml

I think if you look hard enough, you could find any number you'd like. The real number is probably classified somewhere.

[DIBISON]

Hey siouxpreme, the peer institutions that you refer to are just not limited to conference affiliation, the NCAA classification is just as important!

Nothing is final related to a conference, so don't get bent out of shape. Also, during the TRANSITION period, NDSU could very well begin in one conference and end up in another.

NDSU has always stated that their peer institutions are the other land grant universities. When NDSU & SDSU made the move to the DIVISION ONE classification, they were the only land grant universities that were not DI.

So NDSU's peer institutions are other land grant universities and other DIVISION ONE institutions. Please don't limit your discussions to just conference affiliations.

After all, during the upcoming 2005-2006 season NDSU has games with Montana St. in football, Wisconsin & Kansas St. in men's basketball, and Minnesota in women's basketball. Yes, I know that this is pretty impressive, and they are land grant institutions.
So NDSU will always schedule "peer" institutions, either against DIVISION ONE conference teams or nonconference games against other land grant institutions!

Yes, even the independent schools being discussed for a new DI conference are better than the dII Mary's, Crookston's, and Moorhead St's, because of the NCAA DIVISION ONE classification!

[Bisonguy]

NDSU has always stated that their peer institutions are the other land grant universities. *When NDSU & SDSU made the move to the DIVISION ONE classification, they were the only land grant universities that were not DI.

So NDSU's peer institutions are other land grant universities and other DIVISION ONE institutions. *Please don't limit your discussions to just conference affiliations. *

After all, during the upcoming 2005-2006 season NDSU has games with Montana St. in football, Wisconsin & Kansas St. in men's basketball, and Minnesota in women's basketball. *Yes, I know that this is pretty impressive, and they are land grant institutions.
So NDSU will always schedule "peer" institutions, either against DIVISION ONE conference teams or nonconference games against other land grant institutions!




Don't forget New Jersey's land grant university, Rutgers. NDSU's Andrew Aakre won the decathlon at the University of Miami's Hurricane Invite on friday, besting student-athletes from Miami, Rutgers, Syracuse, and FIU. *:o :o

[JBB]

*If Valley City State tomorrow said they were going DI, they would be in your conference too, no questions asked, no selection process needed.


If thats true then I guess und2* could probably get in as well, but Valley City State is more likely to end up in the NCC than Division I.

From what i see, the conference issue revolves on 2 pts, travel and the auto bid. Confrences are seeking geographic compatibility. They dont like the idea of new members profiting from the auto bid either, and only seem interested in adding schools to protect the bid a la the BSC.

Having twin conferences which is a very popular model in DI would be a huge asset. With this conference and the GWFC NDSU and all other members would have great national exposure.

[greenandgold01]

Here's one of the big sky.

A little small but I don't know any free hosting sites that are over 1 mb.

http://img68.exs.cx/img68/8183/bigsky0517ie.png

[jack100]

I'm pretty sure yahoo would have the right info.

Nice try though.


When you do not know the facts - why are you making an argument? Posting a link from some Yahoo site - brilliant.
What's a better source for enrollment - the SDSU student newspaper or the yahoo site? If it makes you feel good to try and minimize SDSU go for it - at least get your facts in order.

How about this one - which university NDSU or SDSU is taking a risk by not complying with Title IX? Maybe nothing will come of it - but NDSU would have a public relations nightmare if that would hit the court system.

[Trimmy]

Sometimes I wonder if G&G01 is a kinder, gentler reincarnation of BF1234.

[Bisonguy]

NDSU is already a lot closer to having athletic related aid being in proportion to the gender breakdown of the student enrollment for Title IX. SDSU has more ground to make up, so they have to do something.

[Bisonguy]

Sometimes I wonder if G&G01 is a kinder, gentler reincarnation of BF1234.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

[greenandgold01]

When you do not know the facts - why are you making an argument? Posting a link from some Yahoo site - brilliant.
What's a better source for enrollment - the SDSU student newspaper or the yahoo site? If it makes you feel good to try and minimize SDSU go for it - at least get your facts in order.

How about this one - which university NDSU or SDSU is taking a risk by not complying with Title IX? Maybe nothing will come of it - but NDSU would have a public relations nightmare if that would hit the court system.


LOL, you're actually asking me if I think the SDSU student newspaper is correct?

Well, let's just say this: it's run by the students of SDSU. That should tell you plenty.

[greenandgold01]

Here's a Gateway graphic. They're a lot closer together than the Big Sky.

http://img205.exs.cx/img205/4885/gateway0518xi.png

**EDIT: Fixed SMS location.

[89rabbit]

Here's a Gateway graphic. They're a lot closer together than the Big Sky.

http://img133.exs.cx/img133/7773/gateway0518xs.png

You have SMS (soon to be Missouri State) where SEMO is. SMS is located in Springfield, MO. In the South West corner of the State, much closer to Oklahoma.

[Bisonguy]

Sometimes I wonder if G&G01 is a kinder, gentler reincarnation of BF1234.

Maybe G&G01 and Bison_Kent are alter egos. They both have a thing for maps....... ???

[greenandgold01]

Maybe G&G01 and Bison_Kent are alter egos. They both have a thing for maps....... ???


I do like maps.

[greenandgold01]

You have SMS (soon to be Missouri State) where SEMO is. SMS is located in Springfield, MO. In the South West corner of the State, much closer to Oklahoma.




I doubt that SEMO or even Central and NW state's would let them get away with calling themselves Mizzou State.

[Bisonguy]

I doubt that SEMO or even Central and NW state's would let them get away with calling themselves Mizzou State.

They can't stop it- SMS will be Missouri State on August 28th, 2005-the state congress already passed the bill, and the governor of Missouri signed the bill.

Name Change to "Missouri State University" (http://www.smsu.edu/namechange)


In a campus ceremony on March 17, 2005, the 100th anniversary of Founders Day, Governor Matt Blunt signed Senate Bill 98, which included changing Southwest Missouri State University’s name to Missouri State University. The new name becomes effective August 28, 2005.

The Missouri Senate passed Senate Bill 98 in the early morning hours of February 15 on a vote of 25-7. The Missouri House passed SB 98 on March 1 on a vote of 120-35. The "truly agreed to and finally passed" bill went to the Governor for his signature on March 2.........

[greenandgold01]

Hmm...ok whatever. Seems a bit unfair but I guess it's done.

Here's a mid con pic as well.

http://img235.exs.cx/img235/3732/midcon14eq.png

[89rabbit]

Hmm...ok whatever. Seems a bit unfair but I guess it's done.

Here's a mid con pic as well.

http://img235.exs.cx/img235/3732/midcon14eq.png

Not to be nit picky guy, but you have Oral Roberts in Oklahoma City. They are in Tulsa, much closer to Kansas and Missouri.

[greenandgold01]

They didn't even win the Mid Con. I'm too lazy to change it.

[89rabbit]

They didn't even win the Mid Con. I'm too lazy to *change it.

LOL! ;D

[jackrabbit1979]

http://education.yahoo.com/college/facts/8675.html

Not quite 10k, actually.

That must be 2003-2004 numbers because Fall 2004 enrollment at SDSU was 10,954. *

[jackrabbit1979]

I'm pretty sure yahoo would have the right info.

Nice try though.

Pretty sure you should concede to the SDSU fans on their own enrollment. *10,954 students, Fall 2004

[jackrabbit1979]

Green and Gold,
Why don't we believe you about SDSU's enrollment, you seem to be right on with all your facts and locations on this thread. ::)

[greenandgold01]

Green and Gold,
Why don't we believe you about SDSU's enrollment, you seem to be right on with all your facts and locations on this thread. ::)


I guessed on the locations.

But I went right to yahoo for the numbers.

[jackrabbit1979]

How many students does NDSU have enrolled?

[jackrabbit1979]

How many students does NDSU have enrolled?

According to your "source" green and gold it is just over 10,000

http://education.yahoo.com//college/facts/7806.html

The numbers don't lie ::)

[TheBisonator]

Hey greenandgold01, you know those Yahoo numbers aren't up to date, right??

The 2005 World Almanac lists SDSU's enrollment from 2003-2004 as 10,642. I assume that it may have increased a little into the 2004-2005 year.

NDSU had 11,623 in 2003 and 12,026 in 2004.

[greenandgold01]

I guess yahoo is wrong.

[jack100]

I guess yahoo is wrong.


You should have said you were wrong about a lot of things. Arguing about SDSU's enrollment and distance from Sioux Falls (the distance is actually 52-53 miles) with people from SD would be like me arguing the distance from the Fargodome to Hector International. I do not live in Fargo. The only way I could actually verify and argue the distance would be for me to drive to Fargo and then drive from the Fargodome to Hector. When is the last time the you have gotten on the interstate in Brookings and checked the mileage sign to Sioux Falls? My bet is that you haven't. As far as enrollment numbers in the fall of 2004 - those numbers come straight from SDSU's registrars office. If it makes you feel better to believe an old Yahoo - go for it.

[greenandgold01]

You should have said you were wrong about a lot of things. Arguing about SDSU's enrollment and distance from Sioux Falls (the distance is actually 52-53 miles) with people from SD would be like me arguing the distance from the Fargodome to Hector International. I do not live in Fargo. The only way I could actually verify and argue the distance would be for me to drive to Fargo and then drive from the Fargodome to Hector. When is the last time the you have gotten on the interstate in Brookings and checked the mileage sign to Sioux Falls? My bet is that you haven't. As far as enrollment numbers in the fall of 2004 - those numbers come straight from SDSU's registrars office. If it makes you feel better to believe an old Yahoo - go for it.


You might want to check your blood pressure after a (needless) rant like that.

[IowaBison]

You should have said you were wrong about a lot of things. *Arguing about SDSU's enrollment and distance from Sioux Falls (the distance is actually 52-53 miles) with people from SD would be like me arguing the distance from the Fargodome to Hector International. *I do not live in Fargo. *The only way I could actually verify and argue the distance would be for me to drive to Fargo and then drive from the Fargodome to Hector. *When is the last time the you have gotten on the interstate in Brookings and checked the mileage sign to Sioux Falls? *My bet is that you haven't. *As far as enrollment numbers in the fall of 2004 - those numbers come straight from SDSU's registrars office. * *If it makes you feel better to believe an old Yahoo - go for it.

I wouldn't post this but you damn rabbits beat us at football

National Center for Education Statistics
2004 enrollment 8,695

and to be fair NDSU 9,902

and that's total enrollment, no funny number crunching involved

[89rabbit]

Can I be the first to say it is time to move on and let the enrollment thing go. Bottom line SDSU and NDSU are very close no matter what source you use.

Go State! ;D

[IowaBison]

1,207 isn't close, silly rabbit!

didn't godzilla teach you anythin?


size does matter!

[89rabbit]

1,207 isn't close, silly rabbit!

didn't godzilla teach you anythin?


size does matter!

And yet we beat you in football and 2 out of 3 in Men's Basketball. ;)

[greenandgold01]

And yet we beat you in football and 2 out of 3 in Men's Basketball. ;)



And Bucknell beat Kansas. So what?

[89rabbit]

And Bucknell beat Kansas. So what?

I guess it means that Bucknell is better then Kansas and SDSU is better then NDSU. *;) ;D

Go Jackrabbits! *;D

P.S. Want to see a picture of our rock?

http://www.argusleader.com/gallery/2004/sdsu_ndsu/images/5.jpg

Now before anyone gets their undies in a wad, I am just having a little fun with you all. :D

[greenandgold01]

Kansas is better than Bucknell.

[89rabbit]

Not when it counted, during the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament.

Bucknell 64, Kansas 63


Can't believe you are dissing a fellow Bison team. :o

[IowaBison]

Not when it counted, during the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament.

Bucknell 64, Kansas 63


Can't believe you are dissing a fellow Bison team. *:o


not surprised that you're touting a once-in-a-lifetime upset ;D

[89rabbit]

So you guys don't believe in settling things on the floor/field. *I guess the Griz were a better team then the Bison in '03. *I mean after all they did make the I-AA playoffs and you (like my Rabbits) missed the D-II playoffs. *::)

The guys over on E-Griz will be glad to know that you have come around to their way of thinking. ;)

Go State! ;D

[IowaBison]

the sun shines on a hare's ass every once in awhile

[89rabbit]

Like I said, the Griz fans will be happy to know that you feel that way. *;)

Go State! *;D

P.S. I'm done with line of reasoning. Peace my Bison brothers.

[IowaBison]

every hare has his day!

[89rabbit]

every hare has his day!

Some hares have two out of every three days. (Football '02, '04 - Men's Basketball in Brookings and Fargo). I couldn't help myself, I am weak. ;)

[BisonCountry]

FargoDome - November 12, 2005
http://www.makersgallery.com/gibson/pix/deaths2.jpg

[greenandgold01]

Some hares have two out of every three days. (Football '02, '04 - Men's Basketball in Brookings and Fargo). I couldn't help myself, I am weak. ;)

Why do you only include the last 3 years Instead of the last 60 years? ::) ::) ::) ::)

[Charger]

1,207 isn't close, silly rabbit!

didn't godzilla teach you anythin?


size does matter!

I believe that UND has a greater number of students than both of us. Does that mean they are better than you guys? I would say we (NDSU and SDSU) are very comparable universities in size and mission.

[IowaBison]

1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207 1207

[Bisonguy]

1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 * 1207 *

You only typed that 288 times- you should have typed it 1207 times. :-/

[IowaBison]

you're right, there's even a big difference between 288 and 1207 ;)

[dakotadan]

I previously heard somebody state that Hector is a regional airport on here. *:-/

If the Grand Forks Airport (http://www.gfkairport.com/index.html), the self-proclaimed "Busiest Commercial airport in North Dakota", can be considered an international airport with only daily flights to Minneapolis, then Hector is most definitely an international airport. *


Just wanted to point out that UND's flight program is run out of the GF Airport, making it the busiest airport in ND. Actually, the Grand Forks Airport is in the top 50 in the nation for number of flights a day. I understand it is a little deceiving calling it the busiest airport in ND but it is a fact.

[Bisonguy]

Just wanted to point out that UND's flight program is run out of the GF Airport, making it the busiest airport in ND. Actually, the Grand Forks Airport is in the top 50 in the nation for number of flights a day. I understand it is a little deceiving calling it the busiest airport in ND but it is a fact.


If it was just "busiest airport" I would understand, but the fact that they state "commercial airport" seems to infer that the GF Airport has more commercial flights than any other airport in ND, which is not the case.

I guess with GF Airport being a commercial airport it's correct, but it's like saying DI-AA NDSU football has more national championships than any other DI team while failing to mention they were at the DII/College Division level. :-/

[greenandgold01]

Commercial could also mean cargo.

[Bisonguy]

Commercial could also mean cargo.

UPS, FedEx, and DHL all have larger distribution hubs in Fargo than GF.

[Bison_Dan]

Ever been to the gf airport - it's a dump. *There talking about building a new one. *They have a couple of little runways on the east side of the airport that all the und students use for training. *You can rack up alot of takeoffs and landings when you have that many students learning to fly.

[greenandgold01]

UPS, FedEx, and DHL all have larger distribution hubs in Fargo than GF.


Umm...those are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to worldwide cargo companies.

[TheBisonator]

http://www.mwscomp.com/mpfc/argument.jpg

"I'm looking for an argument."

"No, you're not."

"Would you like a 5 minute argument or a 30 minute argument??"

[Bison_Kent]

Here is another story on the proposed new conference from Texas. It brings out another possible addition in the New York Institute of Technology.

http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=6331&Section=Sports

[kchats]

Interesting story. I noticed that they said President Chapman initiated the meeting. The Bison are doing all they can to get into a conference aren't they.

[Siouxpreme]

Interesting story. *I noticed that they said President Chapman initiated the meeting. *The Bison are doing all they can to get into a conference aren't they.

Kchats:

With your rose-colored glasses, of course you would see this article as a positive sign. Certainly, Chapman is being proactive.

But there is a negative flip side to that positive: unlike other independent schools, NDSU/Chapman have no other recourse than to pursue a new conference. So of course they are being aggressive. There are no other conferences that have even hinted at interest in them. Almost every other DI independent on that list has at least one possible suitor. Not only is your geography hurting you, but your historic lack of a decent mens Bball program (and atrocious facilities) is a big black mark against you. Pouring resources into football (relative to SDSU) only confirms the view that NDSU is a football school and your DI move is football oriented. Until you make a deep commitment to basketball (at a minimum announce a BSA refurbishment), you will not get the time of day from a non-football DI conference.

[jjbluecw]

Kchats:

With your rose-colored glasses, of course you would see this article as a positive sign. Certainly, Chapman is being proactive.

But there is a negative flip side to that positive: unlike other independent schools, NDSU/Chapman have no other recourse than to pursue a new conference. So of course they are being aggressive. There are no other conferences that have even hinted at interest in them. Almost every other DI independent on that list has at least one possible suitor. Not only is your geography hurting you, but your historic lack of a decent mens Bball program (and atrocious facilities) is a big black mark against you. Pouring resources into football (relative to SDSU) only confirms the view that NDSU is a football school and your DI move is football oriented. Until you make a deep commitment to basketball (at a minimum announce a BSA refurbishment), you will not get the time of day from a non-football DI conference.



Please tell us siouxpreme, why do you care?

[Siouxpreme]

Please tell us siouxpreme, why do you care? *

Believe it or not, I am concerned about you guys. Your athletic programs (other then football, wrestling, and maybe women's basketball) are in a more tenous long-term position than seems commonly acknowledged on this board.

[Rodentia]

Souixpreme, you should take a look at the tinting of your own glasses. Just what do you think is a reasonable expectation for a team in their first year of D-I?

You also forget about Softball (12-6 so far) and Volleyball (13-20 isn't bad at all for a first season). The soccer team was 5-11-1, and this is quite reasonable for a first year in D-I. Men's cross country is doing OK.

All you are really left with is that men's basketball and baseball are not having good seasons. But any objective observer wouldn't expect to much out of the first year in D-I.

[BisonCountry]

Kchats:

With your rose-colored glasses, of course you would see this article as a positive sign. *Certainly, Chapman is being proactive. *

But there is a negative flip side to that positive: *unlike other independent schools, NDSU/Chapman have no other recourse than to pursue a new conference. *So of course they are being aggressive. *There are no other conferences that have even hinted at interest in them. *Almost every other DI independent on that list has at least one possible suitor. *Not only is your geography hurting you, but your historic lack of a decent mens Bball program (and atrocious facilities) is a big black mark against you. *Pouring resources into football (relative to SDSU) only confirms the view that NDSU is a football school and your DI move is football oriented. *Until you make a deep commitment to basketball (at a minimum announce a BSA refurbishment), you will not get the time of day from a non-football DI conference.



Rose Colored Glasses Definition:

Big Sky send NDSU a letter of interest in Conference expansion. NDSU doesn't have a hint of a conference being interested in them.

Big Sky sends UND a letter of interest in Conference expansion. UND says Big Sky begging them to join.



It's funny to me how Sioux fans can spin things!

[BisonCountry]

Souixpreme, you should take a look at the tinting of your own glasses. *Just what do you think is a reasonable expectation for a team in their first year of D-I?

You also forget about Softball (12-6 so far) and Volleyball (13-20 isn't bad at all for a first season). *The soccer team was 5-11-1, and this is quite reasonable for a first year in D-I. *Men's cross country is doing OK.

All you are really left with is that men's basketball and baseball are not having good seasons. *But any objective observer wouldn't expect to much out of the first year in D-I.

There was a good piece on WDAY last night about the different schedule paths the BB vs. SB teams took. *McLeod (sp?) said if he could go back in time he wouldn't change it, because it is great experience for his young team. *They mentioned the last 4 Bison BB opponents had a combined record of 72-20 and they still have some great teams coming with the likes of Nebraska.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

Bisoncountry, what where they saying were the main differences? I haven't looked at the s-ball schedule, are they not playing the level of opponents that b-ball is?
I think, in the position the Bison find themselves, their baseball scheduling was very good. The only reason to schedule easier games would be to get w's on the board but those w's aren't going to get them anywhere. It's playing the tough competition and seeing what these other teams have to offer that will help them in the future.
On the other hand, if NDSU could get into a conference with baseball it would be nice so that they could have some sort of post-season, as in the other sports. I don't know if NDSU will ever qualify for a super-regional but starting a conference would definitely be a step in the right direction.
This brings up another question of mine, what sport did NDSU move up for the men (as the one DI sport you can have without penalty)?

[IowaBison]

wrestling

[BisonCountry]

Bisoncountry, what where they saying were the main differences? *I haven't looked at the s-ball schedule, are they not playing the level of opponents that b-ball is?
I think, in the position the Bison find themselves, their baseball scheduling was very good. *The only reason to schedule easier games would be to get w's on the board but those w's aren't going to get them anywhere. *It's playing the tough competition and seeing what these other teams have to offer that will help them in the future. *
On the other hand, if NDSU could get into a conference with baseball it would be nice so that they could have some sort of post-season, as in the other sports. *I don't know if NDSU will ever qualify for a super-regional but starting a conference would definitely be a step in the right direction.
This brings up another question of mine, what sport did NDSU move up for the men (as the one DI sport you can have without penalty)? *

I think the reference they made was the SB team was easing into getting their feet wet, while the BB team was diving in and getting soaked.

I whole-heartedly agree with you that now is the time to schedule the tough teams as the W's are less important than the experience gained. I just hope the team members see it that way too and accept the challenge rather than dwell on the Win vs. Loss ratio.

I believe NDSU choose wrestling as their DI sport.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

As far as the team members go I would think that the guys who have been there for a couple of years would probably take this the worst as they are used to winning games and the new guys knew coming in that they would not win many games OR have the possibility to play in the post season. So I think that that is the trade-off the new kids made, playing higher competition without the chance of post-season and many wins.

[Rodentia]

Any indication that the players are taking the transition hard? It's not as if NDSU just made this decision overnight. Perhaps they didn't wish to be a big fish in a little pond.

[Bison_Dan]

Believe it or not, I am concerned about you guys. *Your athletic programs (other then football, wrestling, and maybe women's basketball) are in a more tenous long-term position than seems commonly acknowledged on this board.


I guess we could say the same thing about und (other than fb, women's bb, swimming). und has been in a tenous longterm position in dii sports since ever!! And that's dii!

[Gamehunter]

Believe it or not, I am concerned about you guys. Your athletic programs (other then football, wrestling, and maybe women's basketball) are in a more tenous long-term position than seems commonly acknowledged on this board.



I believe you mean tenuous. Nice try though.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

I guess we could say the same thing about und (other than fb, women's bb, swimming). *und has been in a tenous longterm position in dii sports since ever!! And that's dii!


I believe you mean tenuous. Nice try though. ;) ;D

[BisonCountry]

Thankfuly I don't never make speling or gramar errors.

[Tatanka]

Thankfuly I don't never make speling or gramar errors.
Yeah, no siht.

[scottheck]

Watch for news from the Athletic Dept on this issue. NDSU is taking a leadership role with all DI independents to create a conference of those schools.

[JBB]

Go BISON. Thats exactly what we (NDSU&SDSU) have to do!! :D

[mikelsch]

A newly created conference is an excellent idea, even if it isn't ideally what we want right now.

- Gets the clock ticking on an auto bid for tournaments
- Fills in scheduling holes
- Gives our teams a conference title to shoot for
- More visibility in a conference (even if widespread and low profile) than an independent
- Having membership, and being successful, in a conference increases the possibility of getting into a better conference in the future

Many of these points are similar to what the Great West has done for football.

[kchats]

Watch for news from the Athletic Dept on this issue. *NDSU is taking a leadership role with all DI independents to create a conference of those schools.

Scott if they start this new conference will they move the administration of the Great West Conference under the umbrella of this new conference? Will any of the schools that field football teams be joining the Great West Conference as well?

[mikelsch]

No other schools that play in the GWFC will be joining NDSU and SDSU in a new conference for our other sports. The other GWFC schools will be conferences that grant auto-bids already. UNC-Big Sky, S. Utah-Mid Con, UC Davis-Big West , Cal Poly-Big West.

Seven year wait for auto bid status - Men's and Women's Basketball. Let's get the clock ticking.

No idea if the administration for the GWFC would change hands.

New Conference Members?
NDSU
SDSU
Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne (IN)
Longwood (VA)
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi
Texas-Pan American
Utah Valley State
Savannah State (GA)
New Jersey Institute of Technology
New York Institute of Technology

[kchats]

My question was will any of the other independent schools that might be joining this newly formed conference also supply football teams to the Great West conference. I know the other members of the Great West Conference already have conferences that don't field football but I remember a couple of independents having football programs. They might not be up to the standards of the Great West but they would add numbers to the conference.

[mikelsch]

Doubt it. Football is too expensive to add (Title IX, facilities, scholarships, travel, coaches, etc.)

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

I don't think he meant start up teams, but, if they have teams will those teams join the GWFC. I was wondering the same thing.

[JBB]

The conference looks great. *If we can get it going next season can be yr 1 on the auto bid wait. It will take NDSU to a lot of great cities.

:)

[mikelsch]

Out of that group, only Savannah St has football. Their program is horrible...wouldn't want them in the GWFC. However if they were accepted, they could replace our yearly DII opponent at the beginning of the season. :)

[JACKGUYII]

This conference will not be around by the time the autobid kicks or should I say SDSU and NDSU will not be around. I like the idea of starting a new conference for all the reasons outlined but don't feel SDSU and NDSU are far off from being invited to an esstablished conference.

[Gamehunter]

Out of that group, only Savannah St has football. Their program is horrible...wouldn't want them in the GWFC. However if they were accepted, they could replace our yearly DII opponent at the beginning of the season. :)


Isn't Savannah St. horrible at just about everything?

[JBB]

The Mid Con manages the GWFC. If this starts up the 2 conferences should probably manage themselves? I suppose the Mid Con could manage both too.

[Paulie]

Isn't Savannah St. horrible at just about everything?

Yes, with the exception of equestrian.

[JBB]

Now that the Southland has made its decision there are still 7 independents that met on this issue: *Utah Valley State, Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Longwood, New Jersey Institute Institute of Technology and New York Institute of Technology. *

Is there any interest in going ahead with a new conference?

[kchats]

There are also other division II schools that are making the move to division I. I wouldn't completely rule out any of the existing conferences and I'm sure Gene Taylor hasn't ruled them out. Hopefully we get some encouraging news from the Mid-Con meetings later this month.