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BisonMav
12-02-2005, 12:55 PM
Hope this doesn't turn into a smack thread. *With SCSU looking at DI, will a DI NCC be a reality? *Will NDSU and SDSU be part of it? *

SCSU Could Go Division I
Posted Thu, Dec 01, 2005 07:00:08 AM

Link expired

Rodentia
12-02-2005, 02:41 PM
It is certainally possible that SCSU could go D-I. In other states they might already be D-I. Minnesotans perception of D-I is colored by the size of the University of Minnesota, and tend to associate D-I with very large schools. Of course, the Twin Cities campus of the U of M is one of largest in the country, it's hardly typical.

And a D-I NCC is possible. You could form a D-I conference made up of former NCC teams, and if the NCC folded, you could even take the NCC name. But NDSU will probably have an all-sports conference by the time that this could happen.

BisonBacker
12-02-2005, 02:50 PM
With the University of Minnesota just down the road, I don't see this EVER happening. No smack just a fact, Its like saying that UNO will go DI and the Huskers will just say OK? Isn't going to happen!

kchats
12-02-2005, 06:42 PM
That link doesn't show any story about SCSU going division I, is it gone?

BisonMav
12-02-2005, 07:24 PM
That link doesn't show any story about SCSU going division I, is it gone?

Looks like it expired

BisonMav
12-02-2005, 07:28 PM
I get the feeling it will be UNO, USD, UND, SCSU, MSU-Mankato making an announcement. *They still need a sixth school to form a conference, if NDSU and SDSU don't join them. They don't need a sixth, but six is better for obvious reasons.

markerman
12-02-2005, 08:17 PM
I get the feeling it will be UNO, USD, UND, SCSU, MSU-Mankato making an announcement. *They still need a sixth school to form a conference, if NDSU and SDSU don't join them. *They don't need a sixth, but six is better for obvious reasons.
Not only do I not see this happening, I wouldn't want it to happen. I'd rather play Cal Poly and Cal Davis than a 40 (maybe?) scholarship Mankato or St. Cloud. It would also hurt our recruiting and fan base.

BisonMav
12-02-2005, 08:37 PM
Not only do I not see this happening, I wouldn't want it to happen. *I'd rather play Cal Poly and Cal Davis than a 40 (maybe?) scholarship Mankato or St. Cloud. *It would also hurt our recruiting and fan base. *

Cal-Poly and UC-Davis may stay in the Great West with some of these NCC teams added.

TransAmBison
12-02-2005, 09:56 PM
UNO has never expressed any interest in D-1AA to my knowledge, I don't see that one happening.

Bison_Kent
12-02-2005, 09:57 PM
Any nearby teams would help the Great West to get to the magical 6 number that is required for an automatic bid in the I-AA playoffs.

I am not sure about the other sports though. St. Cloud is just an hour from Minneapolis but that is about all it has that would be better in comparison to NDSU or SDSU for a current DI conference.

Bisonguy
12-02-2005, 10:00 PM
Any nearby teams would help the Great West to get to the magical 6 number that is required for an automatic bid in the I-AA playoffs. *

I am not sure about the other sports though. *St. Cloud is just an hour from Minneapolis but that is about all it has that would be better in comparison to NDSU or SDSU for a current DI conference. *



Plus, St. Cloud has a DIII team located there that gets more attention and support than SCSU does.

sambini
12-03-2005, 03:56 AM
I don't see it happening. And yes St.Johns draws better than SCSU.

DIBISON
12-03-2005, 05:11 AM
Again, the key words are "could" or "may" go DI. Until talk turns to actions it doesn't mean a thing. Under the current landscape, there is no way a majority of the current NCC DII universities will go DI.

JACKGUYII
12-03-2005, 05:37 AM
Don't forget all these schools would not only have to add significant football scholarships to be competitive but also add a proportionate amount of womens scholarships to be Title IX complient. I have said it before and I will say it again USD does not have it's athletic financial house in order in DII so how will they make the big leap to DI. It won't happen. I also think UNO,Mn State,St Cloud,UMD have invested so much in hockey that it will be a real challenge to go DI. Womens hockey is a real lost leader. Even U of M who is arguably the dominant womens hockey program has nobody show up for games. *

DIBISON
12-03-2005, 05:44 AM
I agree, the und AD has said that before they could declare their intent to move to DI, they would have to plug the cash drain from women's hockey. And that won't be soon!!

sambini
12-04-2005, 03:03 PM
+++

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 12:47 AM
I get the feeling it will be UNO, USD, UND, SCSU, MSU-Mankato making an announcement. *They still need a sixth school to form a conference, if NDSU and SDSU don't join them. *They don't need a sixth, but six is better for obvious reasons.
I see this happening about as soon as I see a Monkey jumping out of Gil Dobie's butt. Gil Dobie is there something your not telling us ;D

BisonMav
12-05-2005, 02:10 AM
I see this happening about as soon as I see a Monkey jumping out of Gil Dobie's butt. *Gil Dobie is there something your not telling us ;D

Where did I say it was fact?

Better go play with you monkey!

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 05:12 AM
Where did I say it was fact? *

Better go play with you monkey!
You just said it so matter of factly that it was as if you saw this as a done deal. No playing with monkeys here! ;)

BisonMav
12-05-2005, 12:43 PM
Just speculating. If the SCSU study says DI is a go, wouldn't MSU-Mankato almost have to go too. UND is already doing a study, UNO and USD would not want to be left behind. We will see what happens when the smoke clears.

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 01:26 PM
Just speculating. *If the SCSU study says DI is a go, wouldn't MSU-Mankato almost have to go too. *UND is already doing a study, UNO and USD would not want to be left behind. *We will see what happens when the smoke clears.
I can tell you right now there is no way mankato will go. I lived down there for several years. They are going to have the same problem undii is having but only to a larger extreme. Financially is isn't happening. Think about if for a second. Mankato, St. Cloud, undii, UNO, UMD, and you already have of course NDSU all at DI? Never going to happen. You'd be hard pressed to find any area in the country with that many schools in proximity with DI institutions. But the biggest reason is simple. The financial committment or amount of $$$$$ it just simply put won't happen. If it does I'll crap out that Butt Monkey!

BisonMav
12-05-2005, 03:13 PM
I can tell you right now there is no way mankato will go. *I lived down there for several years. *They are going to have the same problem undii is having but only to a larger extreme. *Financially is isn't happening. *Think about if for a second. *Mankato, St. Cloud, undii, UNO, UMD, and you already have of course NDSU all at DI? *Never going to happen. *You'd be hard pressed to find any area in the country with that many schools in proximity with DI institutions. *But the biggest reason is simple. *The financial committment or amount of $$$$$ it just simply put won't happen. *If it does I'll crap out that Butt Monkey!

UMD won't go DI. The best case scenario is the ones mentioned prior. Wisconsin has 3 DI schools, Iowa has 3 DI schools, why couldn't Minnesota have 3? There are many area's of the country with many DI schools in close proximity. Philly by itself has at least 5 DI schools.

roadwarrior
12-05-2005, 03:27 PM
Wisconsin has 3 DI schools.

Yes, but two of them do not have football. Actually dont they have 4 with Marquette? And they dont play football either I believe.

BisonMav
12-05-2005, 03:49 PM
Yes, but two of them do not have football. *Actually dont they have 4 with Marquette? *And they dont play football either I believe.

They do have 4 in Wisco, my mistake.

But the Iowegian schools all play football, and they have 4 not 3, also. Drake is non-scholarship though.

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 03:52 PM
UMD won't go DI. *The best case scenario is the ones mentioned prior. *Wisconsin has 3 DI schools, Iowa has 3 DI schools, why couldn't Minnesota have 3? *There are many area's of the country with many DI schools in close proximity. *Philly by itself has at least 5 DI schools.
How many of those schools have DI hockey? Mankato does, St. Could does, UMD does, undii does. Is any of this sounding all too familiar? Unless they want to give up the hockey this is a no brainer. Its dead in the water.

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 03:53 PM
Does TitleIX ring a bell?

JBB
12-05-2005, 04:13 PM
I forgot where I read this, and it might be gossip for all I know, but there is typically 1 DI univeristy/500,000 population. *MN could handle a couple more. *SCSU and Mankato *would be the best choices if they could afford it because they are already so big. *I think they are both larger than NDSU? *

I still dont see just 1 school moving up. *It has to be 2 or a bunch. *If its not 2 what conference could they possibly join other than the GWFC? *If its 2 they at least have a travel partner. *

3 or more and you have a potential new conference if NDSU and SDSU join. *That means they will have to move fast because I really dont think we will be available *in a couple of yrs.

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 04:13 PM
Plus, St. Cloud has a DIII team located there that gets more attention and support than SCSU does.

As a native of St. Cloud and a SCSU grad (B.S., grad at NDSU), I really don't know if SJU is supported that much more than SCS. Maybe for FB but, with a history like St John's has vs. SCS's, there's reason for that. Plus, it's like NDSU vs Concordia or MSUM. Each has it's own following. Now that SCS has the new FB stadium on campus, it will get better. It helps that the NCC is a shell of its former self but if you have a winning team, the community will get used to that and expect that in the future -- regardless of what division they are in.

I can see SCS going DI, and being able to fund about 50-55 FB scholarships. They'd end up being the middle of the pack type of FB team they always have been. They would have a regular fan base on Saturdays of 3-4000 people who want to see better FB than what they're seeing now. Their wrestling, swimming/diving and skiing programs may go bye-bye to fund the jump. I think where SCS would be looking to benefit would be mens and women's BB. Think of it, SCS is the largest university in MN, ND, and SD behind the U of M -- something like 15,000. One hour from the Twin Cities. Not every kid that wants to play DI BB can play for the Gophers or some other large school but, if they're only an hour from home and they're with a bunch of their friends they went to high school with, that's a big recruiting tool in and of itself. There are some advantages for SCS going DI. Will they ever be the FB power NDSU will? No, but that's not what they're going for. They want a complement to their hockey program and I think BB would be the ticket. There's always been support for BB there as far back as I can remember. Not only would they then be able to someday, with conf affiliation of course, share in the TV revenues for BB but they would also be able to share in the revenues from mens hockey -- unlike any DII or lower school that plays DI hockey (a la undII :P)

BisonMav
12-05-2005, 04:18 PM
How many of those schools have DI hockey? *Mankato does, St. Could does, UMD does, undii does. *Is any of this sounding all too familiar? *Unless they want to give up the hockey this is a no brainer. *Its dead in the water.

I didn't say UMD would go, and you didn't say hockey when you asked. Be precise now and I will answer your question. Division I hockey schools, just try the Northeast, UMass, Harvard, Holy Cross, Northeastern, to find 4 schools in the same state that have football and Ice Hockey. They you have Brown, UConn, Dartmouth, Maine, New Hampshire, Cornell, Colgate, Princeton, Yale in an area smaller than the Dakota's and Minnesota that play Hockey and Football.

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 04:27 PM
I didn't say UMD would go, and you didn't say hockey when you asked. *Be precise now and I will answer your question. *Division I hockey schools, just try the Northeast, UMass, Harvard, Holy Cross, Northeastern, to find 4 schools in the same state that have football and Ice Hockey. *They you have Brown, UConn, Dartmouth, Maine, New Hampshire, Cornell, Colgate, Princeton, Yale in an area smaller than the Dakota's and Minnesota that play Hockey and Football.

The kicker there, though, is population. These schools lie in a densely populated area :o. I'm not saying MN couldn't handle another DI school but, when you talk about MN, unfortunately, the rest of the country will lump the Dakotas into that category strictly for population purposes. I mean look at the largest cities in N and S Dakota. They're all within 20 miles of MN. Swallow GF, Fargo, Sioux Falls and Brookings up into MN and the Dakotas wouldn't have squat. Then you'd have your multiple DI schools in MN.

BisonMav
12-05-2005, 04:35 PM
The kicker there, though, is population. *These schools lie in a densely populated area :o. *I'm not saying MN couldn't handle another DI school but, when you talk about MN, unfortunately, the rest of the country will lump the Dakotas into that category strictly for population purposes. *I mean look at the largest cities in N and S Dakota. *They're all within 20 miles of MN. *Swallow GF, Fargo, Sioux Falls and Brookings up into MN and the Dakotas wouldn't have squat. *Then you'd have your multiple DI schools in MN.


*True, IMO 6 schools are realistic in the future of the three states.

* the original question said proximity, not population

BisonBryce
12-05-2005, 05:10 PM
I think it is a good idea for schools to perform studies.

However isn't the new SCSU football stadium only seat 3500-4000? Wouldn't this be a problem if they wanted to transition to DI-AA? (certainly perhaps conference affiliation). Maybe they made that thing expandable.

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 05:18 PM
I think it is a good idea for schools to perform studies. *

However isn't the new SCSU football stadium only seat 3500-4000? *Wouldn't this be a problem if they wanted to transition to DI-AA? *(certainly perhaps conference affiliation). *Maybe they made that thing expandable.


4198 is the listed capacity. They could easily expand it. There's nothing on the East side of the field nor the endzones -- although the only endzone available would the South as there is a road on the North that can't be blocked off. Of course, they could put the road under the stands but that's only if they were going to expect about 20,000 people -- NOT! :D Double the capacity on the other side and then pull out the parking lot to the south to add more stands. Could easily create enough room for ~10,000 people. Plenty big for SCSU. The stadium is also used for soccer and high school events with it being covered with a "Golf Bubble" type dome in the winter. Very nice for the department.

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 05:46 PM
I didn't say UMD would go, and you didn't say hockey when you asked. *Be precise now and I will answer your question. *Division I hockey schools, just try the Northeast, UMass, Harvard, Holy Cross, Northeastern, to find 4 schools in the same state that have football and Ice Hockey. *They you have Brown, UConn, Dartmouth, Maine, New Hampshire, Cornell, Colgate, Princeton, Yale in an area smaller than the Dakota's and Minnesota that play Hockey and Football.
IowaBison already pointed out the population issue however it's just my opinion that I don't see this happening. I did live in Mankato and I don't think they have the funding or population base to draw on Like Fargo does. Mankato and North Mankato combined are under 50,000 in population, a little smaller then GF. Plus you can't talk about the move without considering all the ramifications and having hockey is a huge expense. Throw in title IX and what else is there to say. Even the gophers have said its a money pit when you factor in title IX.

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 07:05 PM
I think SCS has a leg to stand on and it would be a somewhat feasable move. We talked about the new stadium being a little small but it's nothing to major at this point. I believe the rest of the facilities would be more than sufficient. Halenbeck seats ~6500. It has a few issues with sight lines from what I remember -- similar to the West side upper deck at the BSA (big beams in your way depending on where you're sitting). The softball and baseball facilities are good even though they're off campus. Soccer uses the new football stadium. Track is still at old Selke field but the indoor track is quite nice. Swimming and Diving suck but, if it's like when I swam, it doesn't matter. Nobody shows up to watch anyway. My guess is that sport would be gone, anyway. They haven't competed on any type of scale since I was there and to build a facility that would be on par with UND, which is what they would need, is not going to happen.

Biggest thing they could do is a renovation of Halenbeck if that's possible. I guess they could start over and put something to the south of the NHC -- nothing but parking lot anyways.

Personally, I'd like to see them go. I think they'd compete better than most people might think.

In terms of population and fan base/support, as long as they could try and schedule BB around hockey, they'd draw pretty well. I know when the Huskies are at home at the NHC and there's also a BB game, BB is lucky if they draw 500-1000 people. There is a lot of interst from outlying areas, too. If they could find a conf home in somewhere like the Mid-Con, you'd get people not only from St Cloud coming to watch the games, you'd get people from a good 30 mile radius coming in as well.

In the end, there is going to have to be a lot of support from the St Cloud community and the student body. They built the NHC starting when I was a freshman there. If I remember correctly, we did have an increase in student fees but I don't remember anyone bitching to much. Don't remember the exact way funding for that played out but I think I payed for some of it. :D

BisonBacker
12-05-2005, 07:35 PM
Good Luck

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 08:03 PM
Good Luck

Was that sarcastic or heart-felt :-*? ;D

roadwarrior
12-05-2005, 08:10 PM
I seriously question the level of support for SCSU. When the Bison played football games there, the number of Bison fans always outnumbered the home fans. There were more fans at basketball than football but in no way was Hallenbeck hall even half full for any of the Bison games that I saw there. It appears they may have the hockey syndrome some other school we know so well has.

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 08:26 PM
I seriously question the level of support for SCSU. *When the Bison played football games there, the number of Bison fans always outnumbered the home fans. *There were more fans at basketball than football but in no way was Hallenbeck hall even half full for any of the Bison games that I saw there. *It appears they may have the hockey syndrome some other school we know so well has.

Oh, I completely agree with you. What I wanted to get at, though, was if they did it right, they could garner more support. Remember, there are numerous schools at the DI level that have very little support. I was once down in Atlanta for a conference and visited a colleague who is a professor Georgia State U and got her degrees at NDSU. They are DI in an area where both UGA and GTU are dominant. They may, at best, average a few hundred fans per game for basketball -- strictly a commuter college. In fact the building she taught and did research in was an old parking ramp. :-/ ??? The rest of their facilities are either renovated office buildings or a gym that is on the level of Fargo North. Yet a few years ago, they were in the field of 64/65. SCS has a much more established program and a better following than many schools at the DI level.

I also remember during the mid-80's when the fan support at the BB games was very good. In fact, I think they've had better support over the past few years, too. Yes, I do remember during my last year or so down there and a friend of mine and I attended a game when the Bison were in town. About the same number of NDSU fans as SCS fans. I also remember the FB games being the same way. However, like I said previously, with the NCC a shell of its former self, SCS could start winning more which in turn could lead to more fans which could translate into continued fan support during a jump to DI.

NDSU is a unique school. There aren't many schools that can duplicate what the Bison are doing during their transition to the big time.

JACKGUYII
12-05-2005, 09:33 PM
People at St Cloud seem to think Hallenback is the cute,historical facility that is wonderful. I think it's a total dump with absolutely horrible site lines,restroom facilities and concessions. They would never tolerate this kind of venue for their hockey team.

BisonBryce
12-05-2005, 10:05 PM
People at St Cloud seem to think Hallenback is the cute,historical facility that is wonderful. I think it's a total dump with absolutely horrible site lines,restroom facilities and concessions. They would never tolerate this kind of venue for their hockey team.

Their hockey rink isn't anything to write home about either but it is acceptable (not near the dump that bemidji st. is). But agreed, they wouldn't tolerate the Hallenback for the hockey venue.

IowaBisonToo
12-05-2005, 11:07 PM
It's not a matter of whether or not you think it's total crap -- I do, too -- it's a matter of can they make it work until they can afford to do something better? Should NDSU have had a better BB/indoor track facility before they went DI? No. They'll make due with the BSA for now, I repeat, for now. The same might be able to be said for SCS. That is why they do the studies, isn't it? All I've said from the start is, they could make due with what they have for now. Not all schools are blessed with facilities like the FargoDome or Frost arena or might I say, the Ralph. SCS would have to come up with a lot of money to find a new place for BB down the road but, I'm sure there are schools worse off than SCS.

As far as the NHC, you can probably thank USA Hockey for that memorial to concrete. That was towards the end of the era when architects were designing arenas that were of similar ilk to the HHH Blunderdome. Seat as many people as you can while putting as few dollars into it as possible and forget about concessions and bathrooms. SCS didn't have a huge budget at the time, especially since they had been in DI for a whole year. USA Hockey came in and offered a chunk of money. They did the best they could while still trying to follow what was needed for USA Hockey to come in during the summer and train. I was at a Huskie vs. Brown game over Thanksgiving and was reminded how bad that arena is when compared to what's going up these days. No thanks to RE up north for setting the bar high. Sometimes I wonder if fans have gotten a little spoiled now days when it comes to those creature comforts. :)

kchats
12-06-2005, 04:02 AM
If somebody spends the kind of money they spend on arenas these days they better have all the comforts you can throw in them. Better to do it right than wish you would have had something after you build it.

sambini
12-06-2005, 04:06 AM
Are the Johnnies the big draw in the fall around St.Cloud? There stadium is very nice . That d2 schools would envy. I don't think the Huskies will move up.

tony
12-06-2005, 04:44 AM
I think all current NCC teams would be foolish not to study a move to DI.

For instance, they could move up to DI without adding many scholarships at all - nobody is going to force them to fully fund football, and they might think that they can get DI-AA to lower the schollie limit (it's a heck of a lot more likely than any of the UND schemes for revamping the NCAA completely). If that doesn't work, they could move up and set their own conference schollie limit of 40 or so.

Anyway, I think the other NCC schools are beginning to realize that UND is on the verge of giving them an epic screwing over. They lead the resistance against a DI NCC and as soon as they've effectively killed that option, they decide to move up? Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

If I were an NCC member right now, I'd be studying DI in preparation to trying to convince the rest of the NCC that if one more team moves up, all should move up. And, no, I don't think NDSU or SDSU want to be part of it... heck no! They want to be part of DI autobid conference. If neither team has an invitation by 2009, then I could see NDSU and SDSU being more receptive - but, of course, they are going to jump at the first invitation to a real DI conference.

kchats
12-06-2005, 05:17 AM
Heck they could move up and make their football nonscholarship at the division I level. It is not like any of the other remaining NCC schools other than UND have storied football programs. Division I-AA is too smart to allow a reduction in scholarships, they will just tell you to go nonscholarship because that is an option. If you can't fund it that is where you belong.

Rodentia
12-06-2005, 06:57 AM
The biggest issue would be whether or not they have enough money to make the move. Their proximity to the Twin Cities is a factor, of course. I think that the proximity would hurt them most in football. If they were to make the move, I would try to schedule around the Gophers. If the Gophers are playing an evening game, try to put the game in the afternoon, and vice versa.

Geographically, Duluth makes a lot of sense at D-I. Again, it's an matter of whether they can raise the funds.

IowaBisonToo
12-06-2005, 03:31 PM
Sambini, SJU does get more people going to the games than SCS. But, like I said before, if SCS begins to show some life in the FB program, winning will draw more people. Think of it like this. When SCS was in DII/DIII hockey, they played in a crappy little 1500 seat arena on the north side of SC. Same place where the high school teams and SJU played. The games I went to while still in high school, they may have drawn along the lines of 750-1000 people each game. Then they decided to bring Herb Brooks in and bring the program to DI level. They played 1 or 2 seasons at Municipal while the NHC was built, then moved into there. I remember going to some of the first games at the NHC. Besides the Gophers, the games maybe drew 1500-2000 people. Pretty dismal for a state-of-the-art (at the time) 6000 seat arena. Low and behold, they started winning. Now, it's pretty hard to get a ticket to one of their games. When I went to the Brown game over Thanksgiving, it wasn't full but had about 4500 in attendance. Not bad for a holiday weekend and playing a fairly dismal team. My point is, they could do the same with the other sports.

Fund raising would be a big issue in St Cloud. I think there would be a better chance of the community backing the building a new hockey arena than trying to fund a 64 scholarship I-AA football program. What they do about Hallenbeck is a whole other issue. Maybe take the NHC and somehow convert it into the BB arena while keeping the ability there for ice to accomodate youth tournaments. I don't know??? However, I think basketball has a legitimate shot in St Cloud regardless of where they play to begin with. We all know the current problems with the BSA but NDSU didn't have a new or renovated arena before they went to DI. Restating my point from a previous post, though, the games would have to be scheduled around hockey -- Thursday nights, Sundays, Saturday afternoons, etc. No more of the Fri/Sat series now seen in the NCC.

Rodentia, I don't think scheduling around the Gophs really would be necessary. The people coming to SC from the Cities are going to be friends and family of players and a few alumni. The draw for BB will be the SC metro area (~100,000 people), up to Little Falls, down to Willmar, over to Princeton/Milaca and maybe as close to the Cities as Monticello.

BisonBacker
12-06-2005, 04:56 PM
Sambini, SJU does get more people going to the games than SCS. *But, like I said before, if SCS begins to show some life in the FB program, winning will draw more people. *Think of it like this. *When SCS was in DII/DIII hockey, they played in a crappy little 1500 seat arena on the north side of SC. *Same place where the high school teams and SJU played. *The games I went to while still in high school, they may have drawn along the lines of 750-1000 people each game. *Then they decided to bring Herb Brooks in and bring the program to DI level. *They played 1 or 2 seasons at Municipal while the NHC was built, then moved into there. *I remember going to some of the first games at the NHC. *Besides the Gophers, the games maybe drew 1500-2000 people. *Pretty dismal for a state-of-the-art (at the time) 6000 seat arena. *Low and behold, they started winning. *Now, it's pretty hard to get a ticket to one of their games. *When I went to the Brown game over Thanksgiving, it wasn't full but had about 4500 in attendance. *Not bad for a holiday weekend and playing a fairly dismal team. *My point is, they could do the same with the other sports.

Fund raising would be a big issue in St Cloud. *I think there would be a better chance of the community backing the building a new hockey arena than trying to fund a 64 scholarship I-AA football program. *What they do about Hallenbeck is a whole other issue. *Maybe take the NHC and somehow convert it into the BB arena while keeping the ability there for ice to accomodate youth tournaments. *I don't know??? *However, I think basketball has a legitimate shot in St Cloud regardless of where they play to begin with. *We all know the current problems with the BSA but NDSU didn't have a new or renovated arena before they went to DI. *Restating my point from a previous post, though, the games would have to be scheduled around hockey -- Thursday nights, Sundays, Saturday afternoons, etc. *No more of the Fri/Sat series now seen in the NCC.

Rodentia, I don't think scheduling around the Gophs really would be necessary. *The people coming to SC from the Cities are going to be friends and family of players and a few alumni. *The draw for BB will be the SC metro area (~100,000 people), up to Little Falls, down to Willmar, over to Princeton/Milaca and maybe as close to the Cities as Monticello.
You still havent touched on the Title IX issues? How are you going to overcome that?

IowaBisonToo
12-06-2005, 06:12 PM
Not sure. I'm not an AD and don't know all the requirements to meet Title IX. That's why they get paid the big bucks. That's for them to figure out. Although, they could drop mens tennis, mens golf, and mens skiing. Not like they'd miss the few students they brought in to field these sports. They could also look into droping swimming all together. It's a money drain and they don't offer many scholarships if any. In fact, I was a walk on but didn't know of more than a few that shared a scholarship or two. Then they could look at limiting the number of scholarships the offer in FB. I highly doubt if they went DI, they would ever be able to support a full scholarship program at the I-AA level. Of course this doesn't address the issue of whether or not the conferences they'd be wanting to get into have specific sports that must be fielded.

Again, that's why they they have the job of AD and why they would do the study -- to find out what has to be done in order to finance the move, meet Title IX, build new facilities, etc.

BisonBacker
12-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Well the first flaw in your argument is when you said cutting back scholarships in football. Good luck trying to get that by the NCAA

NDSU_grad
12-06-2005, 07:36 PM
Well the first flaw in your argument is when you said cutting back scholarships in football. *Good luck trying to get that by the NCAA
About 1/3 of the programs in I-AA don't offer the maximum of 63. While it's not a good idea for St. Cloud to cut scholarships if they want to be competitive, there's no NCAA rule saying they have to offer 63.

IowaBisonToo
12-06-2005, 07:40 PM
Well the first flaw in your argument is when you said cutting back scholarships in football. *Good luck trying to get that by the NCAA

Easy there BisonBacker. I didn't mean getting the NCAA to cut scholarships (I'm not as brain dead as the Pres to the north >:( Remember, I am an NDSU grad in addition to an SCS grad.) Only a Sioux fan would think that is a viable option. What I meant to say is that SCS could offer a limited # of scholarships; i.e. 45-50 instead of the full compliment of 64. Unless, the NCAA says a full 64 or none at all. Again, I'm not about to sit down and read the NCAA rule book so maybe someone else can fill me in on what the NCAA requires. I have better things to do to occupy my time. ;) Again, that's for Kurtz and his crew to figure out.

Rodentia
12-06-2005, 09:05 PM
Rodentia, I don't think scheduling around the Gophs really would be necessary. The people coming to SC from the Cities are going to be friends and family of players and a few alumni. The draw for BB will be the SC metro area (~100,000 people), up to Little Falls, down to Willmar, over to Princeton/Milaca and maybe as close to the Cities as Monticello.

I was thinking the other direction. Staggering games would allow people to go to an SCSU game, and still watch the Gophers on TV.

kchats
12-06-2005, 11:26 PM
I still say go nonscholarhip with their football team. They have never been any good anyway. If the move would be about basketball why even try to compete in football with teams paying for it. Go nonscholarship.

Rodentia
12-06-2005, 11:37 PM
Going nonscholarship would make the move to D-I a lot easier, and they could always add scholarships later when things got established.

IowaBisonToo
12-06-2005, 11:39 PM
I still say go nonscholarhip with their football team. *They have never been any good anyway. *If the move would be about basketball why even try to compete in football with teams paying for it. *Go nonscholarship.

They may not be that great but, they haven't been Augustana-bad, either. I don't think there would be anyone in SC that would want to see the FB team go with no scholarships. Have to see what the study says.

roadwarrior
12-06-2005, 11:57 PM
Why do I get the feeling there is more discussion of this topic on this board than what is going on in St Cloud today :o

Gully
12-07-2005, 02:06 AM
Why do I get the feeling there is more discussion of this topic on this board than what is going on in St Cloud today :o

That's right. It's hard for me to believe St. Cloud would make it in DI. They just don't have the fan support (don't talk to me about hockey either) that the SUs do.

sambini
12-07-2005, 02:26 AM
Good luck if they do go.

jaredboe
12-08-2005, 05:50 PM
You guys keep ripping SCSU as not very good but if I remember correctly didn't they beat you guys the last two times you played including ousting you from the DII playoffs?

BisonMav
12-08-2005, 06:43 PM
You guys keep ripping SCSU as not very good but if I remember correctly didn't they beat you guys the last two times you played including ousting you from the DII playoffs?

Do you think St Cloud will move to DI and I-AA for football?

sambini
12-09-2005, 02:42 AM
NO

bincitysioux
12-09-2005, 03:57 AM
Do you think St Cloud will move to DI and I-AA for football?

Yes

RedRiver
12-09-2005, 02:28 PM
Not a chance, who cares anyway?

BisonBacker
12-09-2005, 02:39 PM
I just think its very interesting that after NDSU and SDSU move up everyone else now wants to move up. Must say something about both schools and also the state of DII. Of course NDSU and SDSU saw this long ago. The other schools apparently don't have much vision, I know that to be true about the one to the North. The guy with two first names must be really squirming given that alot of the schools in the NCC are apparently not happy. He's been quiet and that is odd for him. He's never been one to give up an opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth.

IowaBisonToo
12-09-2005, 02:39 PM
Not a chance, who cares anyway?

Isn't that a little myopic on your part? I think you probably should care. Especially if SCS does go and they start taking away recruits from NDSU in varying sports. :-/

BisonBacker
12-09-2005, 02:43 PM
Isn't that a little myopic on your part? *I think you probably should care. *Especially if SCS does go and they start taking away recruits from NDSU in varying sports. :-/
As long as they have the money pit of Hookey it ain't happening!!!!

IowaBisonToo
12-09-2005, 02:44 PM
I just think its very interesting that after NDSU and SDSU move up everyone else now wants to move up. *Must say something about both schools and also the state of DII. *Of course NDSU and SDSU saw this long ago. *The other schools apparently don't have much vision, I know that to be true about the one to the North. *The guy with two first names must be really squirming given that alot of the schools in the NCC are apparently not happy. *He's been quiet and that is odd for him. *He's never been one to give up an opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth.

Sure does! It says all the other schools have a wait-and-see attitude -- just like the school to the north has publicly said in numerous communications. Don't worry about RT, though. It doesn't matter who's in the conference. Whether it be Ohio State or Mayville State. He has a fairly secure job and doesn't necessarily have to take verbal abuse from much of anyone anymore.

IowaBisonToo
12-09-2005, 02:45 PM
As long as they have the money pit of Hookey it ain't happening!!!!

We shall see, won't we??

BisonBacker
12-09-2005, 02:46 PM
Sure does! *It says all the other schools have a wait-and-see attitude -- just like the school to the north has publicly said in numerous communications. *Don't worry about RT, though. *It doesn't matter who's in the conference. *Whether it be Ohio State or Mayville State. *He has a fairly secure job and doesn't necessarily have to take verbal abuse from much of anyone anymore.

You may call that leadership, I call it follow the leader ;D

Rodentia
12-09-2005, 02:48 PM
Not a chance, who cares anyway?


I'm certainally not overwraught with concern, but it is an interesting topic.

BisonBacker
12-09-2005, 02:48 PM
Oh and just to let you know, I certainly don't worry about the guy with two first names. I was glad to see him depart. I lost any level of respect for him when he refused to shake Rocky's hand after a loss and started poking Rocky's chest and whining about the loss. It spoke volumes about the man in just a few short seconds.

Gully
12-09-2005, 02:53 PM
Oh and just to let you know, I certainly don't worry about the guy with two first names. *I was glad to see him depart. *I lost any level of respect for him when he refused to shake Rocky's hand after a loss and started poking Rocky's chest and whining about the loss. *It spoke volumes about the man in just a few short seconds.

WOW, I don't remember that, do you have more details like which year, where the game was, etc.?

BisonBacker
12-09-2005, 03:08 PM
It was in Fargo at Dakotah Field. I don't remember the year for sure but the Bison won the game and Rocky started to go across the field to meet the other coaches and rt when he met up with Rocky refused to shake his hand but started poking his finger in Rocky's chest and was complaining about somthing. The guy was a poor loser which is funny he should have been good at it since he got so much practice doing it. I am sure there are others on the Board that remember it as well. I believe the game was televised as well. I didn't have much respect for the guy before that but after how he treated Rocky I had absolutely no repsect for him. All I see now is a shallow little man whenever he was on TV.

JBB
12-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Even if they go what will happen? They need a travel partner, they dont have access to the GWFC, they have no conference opportunities and they will have to come up with a lot of money. How do you pay a guarantee when you only have 4,000 seats? They do have the large student body so there is a source of funds if they vote to raise fees, but their potential capacity is low for football, not sure about BB.

I just hope NDSU/SDSU get invites so we dont have to deal with this. The NCC was not a great conference to be in. It worked against NDSU a lot, mostly under the prodding of undii. To join back up with the old NCC would be a huge mistake and a huge step back.

TheBisonator
12-09-2005, 05:18 PM
Even if they go what will happen? *They need a travel partner, they dont have access to the GWFC, they have no conference opportunities and they will have to come up with a lot of money. *How do you pay a guarantee when you only have 4,000 seats? *They do have the large student body so there is a source of funds if they vote to raise fees, but their potential capacity is low for football, not sure about BB. *

I just hope NDSU/SDSU get invites so we dont have to deal with this. *The NCC was not a great conference to be in. *It worked against NDSU a lot, mostly under the prodding of undii. *To join back up with the old NCC would be a huge mistake and a huge step back.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++... etc. and on and on and on

sambini
12-09-2005, 11:54 PM
+++++

kchats
12-10-2005, 05:27 AM
SCSU couldn't out recruit NDSU when NDSU was in division II so why do you think all of a sudden they move up to try and catch up to NDSU and they will steal recruits? They were never a rival in any sport because they were never any good in any sport. We don't want or need them. I agree I hope we move into the Mid-Con so we don't get stuck with the old NCC schools.

sambini
12-10-2005, 03:45 PM
I wish them well in every thing they do, but really do not care about them. Move on and the JOHNNIES are St.Clouds TEAM ANYWAY.

stateu
12-10-2005, 09:51 PM
I wish them well in every thing they do, but really do not care about them. Move on and the JOHNNIES are St.Clouds TEAM ANYWAY.

Hi Bison Fans-
I usually post on d2football.com and just follow this board, I really like to come over here because there is allot of good information. But since I started a thread on the d2 site I wanted to tell you what I know (not much)

The university is going to do an official study in 2006. If UND opts to move up, then the NCC is finished. The NSIC is not an option because they have the right number of teams and they flat out do not want anything to do with the NCC teams. I don't see another option.

As far as funding...we have A LONG way to go! corporate support is great but the boosters are unorganized and the university need to be more agressive in taping into the money of alumni and locals. We could do what UNC did and that raise the money through a student fee. That is what will happen.

And St John's is not St Cloud's team. I dont know if you have been to a Johnnie game, but the crowds are made up of out of area alumni, 3000 students, tourists, and people from western Stearns County. They definately get the most metro press but do not have the largest following. I do envy the size of their football crowds but they had a basketball game last night in Halenbeck and they had a crowd of about 100 people. They do not have support for any sport other than football.

Anyway, I do not think a move is in the cards but if we could do it, I would support it. NDSU, UNC, and SDSU had the balls to do it and saw the demise of the NCC and DII comming. The NCC is still viable but yet it stinks for the fans. We all should have tried to move up at one time.

kchats
12-10-2005, 10:00 PM
NDSU and SDSU proposed that when they made their announcement to move to division I. They actually stayed in division II a year longer to allow the NCC a year to change their minds and move up with them. They were told good bye and good riddance by the rest of the NCC schools and have been treated very rudely since then. That is why most NDSU and SDSU fans don't have very many nice things to say about the NCC. UND was the ringleader in the revolt against the conference move so they bear more criticism from Bison fans.

Bisonguy
12-10-2005, 10:44 PM
IMO- USD and SCSU are both looking at DI to ready themselves to follow UND's lead.

Now, the interesting twist, actually, there's two of them-

1. UND is trying to convince the NCAA to allow an ala carte system when it comes to divisions and their respective sports. Of course, this proposal had little thought put into it, and has significantly more flaws than strengths. If, for some reason, this hail-mary proposal passes, it would pacify the strongest proponents of a move to DI, the football fans. How a move to I-AA football exactly would be funded is another issue, as UND stated in their previous research about DI found that their revenue sources were maxed out. Not having to raise the money to move all their other sports would greatly reduce the burden of a move to DI, but a football program where less than 1 in 3 people in attendance paid for their tickets may have some issues generating funds for the additional costs. Of course, tuition waivers are already in use, and have been in the past, so that is more than likely the preferred plan to defer the additional expenses.

If this desperation attempt falls on it's face, expect the old, "We're going to focus more on academics than athletics" company line from UND. This in turn will allow UND to hush those in favor of the move to DI, as they can also state that "We tried everything we could to move to DI, but the NCAA wouldn't allow us. We can't afford to move all other sports to DI, and we would prefer playing for national championships than conference championships. "

2. UND has formed a committee to look at the DI issue and give Kupchella a recommendation by the end of the school year. The local media has revealed that this committee is stacked with opponents of a DI move. Expect the company lines in the above paragraph to be repeated enumerous times, nearly to the point of becoming confused as lyrics to the school song. Expect a conclusion that the costs *of a move to DI cannot be afforded. This will be an easy sell to UND fans, as the NCAA will be painted as the villain that did not allow them to only participate in DI-AA football, while keeping all other sports, sans hockey, in DII. The precedent for this villainous picture of the NCAA has already been painted in the minds of UND fans due to the NCAA ruling on hostile and abusive nicknames.

So, USD and SCSU are wasting their time and resources, as UND will not be moving to DI. I guess it's a NCAA divisional cold war of sorts. *

BisonBacker
12-10-2005, 11:27 PM
USD considering a move???? I don't think so, matter of fact I know so. Their financial house is in shambles. This has been reported over and over again in various threads and media. No way is USD even thinking about it. As far as undii is concerened your right on the mark their with your comment about villifying the NCAA and using them as the scapegoat. They shouldn't be worried about any desperaton moves in divisions but rather they should be worried about naming problems and the NCAA and also being led by the blind.

Bisonguy
12-10-2005, 11:41 PM
Take out hockey from SCSU's athletic budget, and USD's budget numbers are very similiar, with fewer sport offerings.


Don't think that USD alums are jealous of SDSU's move? Was not USD one of the four schools that voted for a DI NCC? What would happen to USD if UND and SCSU move to DI?

USD may have not publicly made any announcement about a study, but I guarantee that there are DI rumblings going on at the administrative level in Vermilion.

tony
12-11-2005, 02:49 AM
Howdy, stateu... One thing I've found out since really looking at DII teams that moved up, is that you can't really predict how teams will do in DI. UC Davis is doing well - but they are barely cracking .500 every year. UNC is struggling. However, SDSU has been exceeding expectations while playing some very tough teams. You just never know. Lots of former DII champions have moved up to DI-AA. Very few have won playoff games.

If SCSU and the rest go DI, they will definitely hurt NDSU and SDSU - especially in basketball recruiting and it would be a disaster if one of the new NCC teams got an invitation to a DI conference over NDSU.

Anyway, I wish SCSU good luck with their decision. SCSU has a lot going for it (as do all the NCC schools). Hopefully, you don't get subjected to a lot of advice from people who don't give a rip about SCSU.

bincitysioux
12-11-2005, 05:19 AM
USD considering a move???? I don't think so, matter of fact I know so. *Their financial house is in shambles. *This has been reported over and over again in various threads and media. *No way is USD even thinking about it.

I think it is a miracle, but I have to agree with BisonBacker here. *I'm sure they are at least thinking about it, but from what I understand they are really
struggling financially. *Was it last season or the one before that they just dropped baseball? *C'mon, UND and NDSU still have baseball, and the weather in Vermillion is alot better for the sport. And isn't Vermillion like the size of Devils Lake?


Was not USD one of the four schools that voted for a DI NCC?

Do you know how the voting went for all the schools?


What would happen to USD if UND and SCSU move to DI?


Personally, if UND and SCSU move up, I think that UNO will either move to MIAA or to DI with them or shortly after. *Then the NCC would absorb NSIC schools like CSP, Winona, and Bemidji St. *That would leave USD as the dominant program of the NCC, and I think that could be very appealing to them seeing as how they have finally been getting a taste of success in football the last two seasons. *Meierkort is a good coach, and the basketball teams are usually pretty good as well.

Bisonguy
12-11-2005, 05:47 AM
Do you know how the voting went for all the schools?




NDSU, SDSU, UNC, and USD- Yes
UND, MSUM, Augie, UNO, SCSU- No

As far as USD's finances, yes, it has been stated that they're strained, however their hand may conceivable be forced if UND made the commitment to DI. USD's reasoning for a possible move to DI may or may not follow that of other schools which has been made public (due to open records laws)-

I recognize that we may have to make this move even though, ultimately it may make no otherwise logical or financial sense to do so....

JACKGUYII
12-11-2005, 06:16 AM
Bisonguy and those of you who keep stating and speculating that USD is considering a move to DI you are flat out wrong and have brought no facts to back up these statements. Show me on article that President Abbott or any credible representive of USD has gone on record as saying they were evaluating a move to DI? USD does not have the cash or willpower to make such a move. Vermillion as a town is the smallest to have a public university and has very little corporate presence in the community. Additionally Vermillion as a communiity is in a remote part of the state that has more interaction with the states of Iowa and Nebraska. To compare UND or even St. Cloud and USD situations is totally disengenious. USD would prefer to be a big fish in a small pond and will stay in the NCC until it breaks up.

bincitysioux
12-11-2005, 06:30 AM
Bisonguy and those of *you who keep stating and speculating that USD is considering a move to DI you are flat out wrong and have brought no facts to back up these statements. Show me on article that President Abbott or any credible representive of USD has gone on record as saying they were evaluating a move to DI? USD does not have the cash or willpower to make such a move. Vermillion as a town is the smallest to have a public university and has very little corporate presence in the community. Additionally Vermillion as a communiity is in a remote part of the state that has more interaction with the states of Iowa and Nebraska. To compare UND or even St. Cloud and USD situations is totally disengenious. USD would prefer to be a big fish in a small pond and will stay in the NCC until it breaks up.

I'd have to agree. If UND moves, I'd like to see USD move too, because I view them as a "flagship" university. Despite money problems, and being located in a small city, they have comparable enrollments to the other 3 big Dakota Schools as well as fan support for their athletics. I just don't see the "upside" of DI for them that SDSU/NDSU/UND could have. The only way I see USD take a real serious look at DI is if UNO moves first. Despite losing their arch-rival when SDSU moved up, USD (with it's location) seems to have a viable rival in UNO as well, and to my knowledge, it is pretty heated. If USD have no SDSU, no UNO, no UND, and no NDSU on the schedule, that is when pressure from alumni could become a factor, like it is now for UND with no NDSU or SDSU on the schedule.

Bisonguy
12-11-2005, 06:40 AM
Bisonguy and those of *you who keep stating and speculating that USD is considering a move to DI you are flat out wrong and have brought no facts to back up these statements. Show me on article that President Abbott or any credible representive of USD has gone on record as saying they were evaluating a move to DI? USD does not have the cash or willpower to make such a move. Vermillion as a town is the smallest to have a public university and has very little corporate presence in the community. Additionally Vermillion as a communiity is in a remote part of the state that has more interaction with the states of Iowa and Nebraska. To compare UND or even St. Cloud and USD situations is totally disengenious. USD would prefer to be a big fish in a small pond and will stay in the NCC until it breaks up.


Right. USD voted in favor of a DI NCC, but now completely dropped any notion that a move to DI might be their only option besides becoming a member of the NSIC, should UND move to DI?

It's disingenious to say that USD would not be looking at DI as an option with the possible implosion of the NCC.

Do you honestly believe that USD is just contently sitting in the NCC, with UND and SCSU looking into DI, with absolutely no investigation into alternatives should the NCC become a four team conference (with UNO bolting if UND moves)?

JACKGUYII
12-13-2005, 07:12 PM
I'm not convinced USD did vote for the NCC move to DI. If they did it was with the logic that it would be the only conceivable way they might be able to afford DI as travel costs would remain relatively the same with the main increase coming from adding scholarships. *I just don't hear the clamoring for DI from the university or alumni that is happening at UND. I'm certain they feel slighted from the increasing media coverage that SDSU is recieving, but that doesn't change their economic reality. USD has some very wealthy celebrity alumni who would need to step up in a big way. If the NCC was disbanded or merged into another conference would USD consider a move to DI? I honestly don't think so. They might be better off moving into the MIACC with UNO as they are closer to schools like Nebraska Kearney etc. *

Bisonguy
12-13-2005, 11:59 PM
I'm not convinced USD did vote for the NCC move to DI. If they did it was with the logic that it would be the only conceivable way they might be able to afford DI as travel costs would remain relatively the same with the main increase coming from adding scholarships.

They did. It was in the NCC minutes, which are next to impossible to navigate. These documents may also have been altered or destroyed after Roger Thomas took office in the NCC, to stabilize membership. NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UNC all wanted a DI NCC to offset travel costs of a move to DI.


*I just don't hear the clamoring for DI from the university or alumni that is happening at UND. I'm certain they feel slighted from the increasing media coverage that SDSU is recieving, but that doesn't change their economic reality.

I wouldn't doubt if UND's and USD's AD are talking at least once a week about possibly reclassifying to DI. USD would add another regional DI opponent, something UND needs as finances were previously a major stumbling block to UND moving up. One more bus trip for all sports might be the difference between being able to make the move or not for UND. SCSU may have succumbed to talks already from UND's AD, and could be the cause of them studying DI. If UND and UNO leave the NCC, USD's travel costs will greatly increase. A move to the MIAA might not work, as Vermillion would be another 4 hours of drive time for most MIAA schools beyond UNO.



USD has some very wealthy celebrity alumni who would need to step up in a big way. If the NCC was disbanded or merged into another conference would USD consider a move to DI? I honestly don't think so. They might be better off moving into the MIACC with UNO as they are closer to schools like Nebraska Kearney etc. *

IF UND announces a move to DI, I fully expect a full-blown "study" on DI by USD, with at least a 50% chance that they will follow.

sambini
12-14-2005, 05:23 AM
St.Johns beat SCSU the other nite in hoops. Whats up with that?

JACKGUYII
12-14-2005, 04:07 PM
The only AD's the USD AD is talking to are one's in the MIAA and Northern Sun. USD and Augustana would be very attractive to the Northern Sun and I could see a two tier division there someday. The odds of USD going DI are well below 50%.

dakotadan
12-15-2005, 07:20 AM
I honestly do not believe that USD would not be considering DI at all. With these other NCC schools now looking at DI and the rumors of a possible DI NCC, there is no way that they are not at least gathering information.

I have heard people say that one of the main topics at the January NCC meeting will be the future of the NCC. Now this may only be talk about possible future members, one has to think that there will be some questions and discussions about schools possibly moving to DI. Considering that USD was at least receptive of a DI NCC in the recent past, I can't imagine that they aren't at least considering it.

MplsBison
12-24-2005, 07:59 PM
http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051224/SPORTS/112240003/1002

Interesting article that talks about some of SCSUs options.

It was mentioned that a DI NCC might look something like this:

NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Duluth
Augi
Saint Cloud
Mankato

Thats 7 guaranteed football games and 14 guaranteed basketball games every year. All of those would be bus rides.

How much would NDSUs athletic department like to see that?

The only thing would the increased competition for coaches and area recruits.

roadwarrior
12-24-2005, 08:36 PM
That is SIX schools that would have to make the jump to D-I, which only a couple of years ago said a resounding NO to the idea. Its a long shot, very long shot that all of those schools would move up.

MplsBison
12-24-2005, 10:06 PM
Is it?

To be honest, I can't tell you.

I do know that it's possible. Look at Louisiana. They have 10 DI football schools in one state.

JBB
12-24-2005, 10:59 PM
No doubt it would save tons of money. *There would be more competion for regional athletes but its a big country and its very doubtfull all of the schools would go to the full 63. *Some of them arent doing the full 36 in DII so in football the bigger schools would have more of an advantage in this new league than they do in the NCC now. If I remember correctly from BisonGuy they will need at least 50%.*

Its a good idea and I think something along those lines could happen if the BSC and Mid Con dont jump for the savings expansion means for their members. *By the time those NCC schools are at the stage we are now it will be clear if its going to happen. *If we havent joined a conference we will be very happy to see the DI NCC come along. *Hey we *could even leave a conference for the convenience of a DI NCC.

dakotadan
12-26-2005, 05:39 AM
I love the idea of a DI NCC. I however don't see Auggie moving to DI. I also wonder about UMD. UMD just moved to the NCC from the NSIC and is still in the process of raising their scholarships to NCC levels.

But even if you start with a core of:
NDSU
SDSU
UND
USD
MSU
SCSU

You have a pretty good base for a conference. A seventh member would need to be found to eventually earn the autobid in BB. Whether UNO or UMD could be convinced to move up with the others or a current independent would be willing to committ to the conference for X number of years.

The biggest concern that everyone seems to have about DI is $$$$. A DI NCC would help out with that concern ALOT.

DIBISON
12-26-2005, 05:55 AM
That is SIX schools that would have to make the jump to D-I, which only a couple of years ago said a resounding NO to the idea. *Its a long shot, very long shot that all of those schools would move up.

A DI NCC is a only a dream today, even with St. cloud and undII UND talking about moving up. *This topic is worthless garbage until there are actual commitments to go DI, not speculation and talk!!

--------------------------------
Edited by admin: enough with the UND crap already

BisonBacker
12-26-2005, 02:45 PM
This isn't going to happen, anyone that thinks it will has their head in the clouds. *No way will MSU, Augi, UMD or USD make that move. *The reason is financially the cost of increased scholarships. *Now if they did have the option of moving up and not having to fully fund the sports they would do it in a minute but who wants to play schools with that mindset, kind of like cup o jello's pick and choose mentality. * Fully fund one sport and let the others toil in the unfunded pool. *I for one like seeing better competition with the likes of Montana and Montana State, I really don't want to see Augustana back on our schedule and this doens't even begin to touch the degree of contempt for ever seeing a sue uniformed team in any Bison arena. *I hope we find a conference home soon and care a less about undii UND or the old NCC. *They dragged their feet and had the lets keep it as it is mentality and now they are suffering the results of that choice, toiling in DII with a few big fish nationally and then then playing the old DIII NAIA schools. *Let them have it they deserve it.


-----------------------------------------
Edit by Admin: ENOUGH!

MplsBison
12-26-2005, 05:20 PM
Does anyone think that if Montana moves up to the WAC or MWC that Montana State could be a possible addition to a conference like this?

NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Mankato, St Cloud, UNO, and Montana State could actually be a decent DI conference.


I also think a lot of people in this thread are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. This conference could save a lot of money for NDSU as well as give it a home for all sports. What's wrong with that? I think a lot of people here who are saying that this conference can't happen simply don't want it to happen rather than actually thinking it can't happen.

Bisonguy
12-26-2005, 06:09 PM
Does anyone think that if Montana moves up to the WAC or MWC that Montana State could be a possible addition to a conference like this?

NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Mankato, St Cloud, UNO, and Montana State could actually be a decent DI conference.


I also think a lot of people in this thread are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. This conference could save a lot of money for NDSU as well as give it a home for all sports. What's wrong with that? I think a lot of people here who are saying that this conference can't happen simply don't want it to happen rather than actually thinking it can't happen.

That would be a decent conference, except for one problem that can be summarized in one word- autobid.

MplsBison
12-26-2005, 08:09 PM
Agreed.

Still, I think the Big Sky is going west (and eventually Montana will leave for a DIa conference) and the Mid Cont will go east (adding IPFW or Grand Valley if they go up to DI).

NDSU has a problem here and this could be the solution.

kchats
12-27-2005, 01:31 AM
I don't see the NCC moving up. What has changed in the 4 years since NDSU and SDSU asked the entire conference to move up besides NDSU, UNC and SDSU are no longer on their schedule? Unless the leaderships at the remaining NCC schools is worse than we think it is they couldn't have changed their minds that quickly because they don't get to play NDSU, SDSU and UNC. I would much rather see the Bison and Jacks join an established division I conference. The NCC couldn't tell the Bison and Jacks they didn't want them around fast enough when we announced our intentions to go division I. I would even prefer the conferences with division I-A football over a division I NCC. That regionalizes the whole move and NDSU went division I to become a nationwide institution not a regional institution that is division I on the cheap.

sambini
12-27-2005, 03:01 AM
I agree the NCC is a thing of the past. Gene will get us in a league. ++++++

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 04:36 PM
I respect all of your guys opinions.

Just let me ask one thing. Why is it almost a universal consensus here that having a DI NCC would be some sort of cop out? Almost as if NDSU had let down the fans or something to that effect?

bincitysioux
12-27-2005, 04:42 PM
I respect all of your guys opinions.

Just let me ask one thing. Why is it almost a universal consensus here that having a DI NCC would be some sort of cop out? Almost as if NDSU had let down the fans or something to that effect?

Good question. A DI NCC is what NDSU wanted from the very beginning.

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 04:46 PM
I don't know about that.


What I do know is that a DI NCC could be something that exists for schools in the upper midwest for a long time. It could be the fabled conference 32 for the NCAA tournament.

Say in the future that NDSU goes to a DIA confernce (like the MWC), the NCC would still exist for other schools that would want to move up in the future (maybe Concordia Saint Paul?).

bincitysioux
12-27-2005, 04:59 PM
Here is how enrollment and attendance numbers for a DI NCC that included UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, SCSU, MSU-M, and UNO would compare to the Big Sky.

NCC

Enrollment: 12,401
Football Att: 7,293
Basketball Att: 2,464


Big Sky

Enrollment: 17,042
Football Att: 10,281
Basketball Att: 2,290

Big advantage for DI NCC: Travel savings

Big disadvantage for DI NCC: No autobid

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 05:29 PM
I understand that an autobid is a valuable thing.

I don't think it's everything, though.

JBB
12-27-2005, 06:13 PM
I respect all of your guys opinions.

Just let me ask one thing. Why is it almost a universal consensus here that having a DI NCC would be some sort of cop out? Almost as if NDSU had let down the fans or something to that effect?

Its a money saver to be sure, but the politics have been made very difficult by the actions that undII UND took after we announced Decision I and throughout the process. *By doing everything they could to make it more difficult for the SUs including leading the move against DI in the NCC the prospects of any cooperation are dim, its difficult to place any trust in their administration. *

Actions against NDSU in the funding issues this past yr ending in their presidents abstention from voting for more funding for NDSU and others is another indication that any type of cooperation with them is difficult. *Not withstanding the goodwill of a fan or two the ground may not be as fertile as some think for renewed cooperation on many issues including a conference. *

That said since its unlikely to see the NCC in DI anytime soon. *There have been no official announcements from anybody except SCSU and undII UND and both are only in the early stages of trying to decide if its worth spending money on a study. *Could be 2 yrs before they even begin their transitions, if at all.

If one or more schools move up Im certain we would schedule them but a conference relationship is another thing all together. *

---------------------------
Edited by Admin: No more UND crap, please

Gully
12-27-2005, 06:59 PM
I respect all of your guys opinions.

Just let me ask one thing. Why is it almost a universal consensus here that having a DI NCC would be some sort of cop out? Almost as if NDSU had let down the fans or something to that effect?

I just think it's more exciting to move up to a higher level of competition. I don't think most of the schools listed would be very competitive at the DI level.

It is true that NDSU at one time wanted a DI NCC. I think the way things have played out have changed that. NDSU is a cut above most of the schools listed in my opinion. I'm much more excited about playing Montana or Montana State in football or Valpo is basketball than I am with begining to play Mankato, SCSU, etc. again.

RedRiver
12-27-2005, 07:00 PM
Good question. *A DI NCC is what NDSU wanted from the very beginning.

Yes, the very beginning before NDSU made the move to DI. There was no interest at the time from the NCC so NC, SDSU and NDSU made the move on their own.

The DI NCC is not relevant at this time to NDSU or SDSU. They have already made the move. A DI NCC is only speculation and fodder talk, until there is something concrete from the NCC it is a waste of time to even discuss it. If something positive does happen, I'm sure NDSU & SDSU would consider the benefits if they were not in another conference.

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 07:02 PM
Good points JBB.

Here's the thing. If St Cloud goes up Mankato goes up. I have no doubt in my mind.

If UND goes up, I think USD could go up.

NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, St Cloud, and Mankato is a core of the conference.

Bison_Dan
12-27-2005, 07:10 PM
Good points JBB.

Here's the thing. If St Cloud goes up Mankato goes up. I have no doubt in my mind.

If UND goes up, I think USD could go up.

NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, St Cloud, and Mankato is a core of the conference.

Where's the beef? (or money) Hell St. Cloud and Mankato can't even provide 36 fb scholarships in dii!! Augie won't go, Duluth won't go, UNO who knows, with rt running the ncc do you really think he'll push for DI? :-/

mikelsch
12-27-2005, 07:44 PM
NDSU does not want to be part of the current NCC schools anymore. Regarding academics, research, and athletics, our peers are not the current NCC. The only school in that group that even comes close is U of North Dakota. You can try to rekindle the old days all you want, but those days aren't coming back - and I am very happy about that.

JBB
12-27-2005, 08:08 PM
I think you guys are right. There isnt any nostalgia coming from the SU fans in either state. We are doing just fine and to go back to the same schedule we had in 2000 just isnt what it was even a couple of yrs ago.

Im watching the 2 NCC schools with interest. At the very least they will provide some scheduling opportunities. If SCSU were to move Im sure they would be in Fargo, but I doubt a 4,300 seat stadium will generate much guarantee money. I dont know about a Home/home.

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 09:49 PM
Where's the beef? *(or money) *Hell St. Cloud and Mankato can't even provide 36 fb scholarships in dii!! *Augie won't go, Duluth won't go, UNO who knows, with rt running the ncc do you really think he'll push for DI? * :-/


I understand. I have no idea what RT will push for. I would like to think he'd do what's best for the conference as a professional.

I don't think Augi or Duluth would go. I'd like UNO to go but they might be better served by the MIAA.

Heres a question, would St Cloud or Mankato ever provide 60 scholarships in football if they went to DI? Maybe they'd only have 40 or so.

Is that bad?

JBB
12-27-2005, 10:28 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but I think they only need to fund 50%.

Gamehunter
12-27-2005, 10:44 PM
Where's the beef? (or money) Hell St. Cloud and Mankato can't even provide 36 fb scholarships in dii!! Augie won't go, Duluth won't go, UNO who knows, with rt running the ncc do you really think he'll push for DI? :-/



A DII NCC is probably the only way for RT to keep his job so he will undoubtedly be strongly opposed. I highly doubt RT would ever be the commish for a DI NCC if it was to ever happen.

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 11:02 PM
NDSU does not want to be part of the current NCC schools anymore. *Regarding academics, research, and athletics, our peers are not the current NCC. *The only school in that group that even comes close is U of North Dakota. *You can try to rekindle the old days all you want, but those days aren't coming back - and I am very happy about that.



Are you saying that because you really believe it or because you don't want it to happen?


I want whatever is best for NDSU, whatever Gene and the rest of the staff decide.

I don't want a DI NCC because I want to rekindle anything. If we go into the Big Sky, great.


I'm simply think this could be the best move for NDSU financially.

MplsBison
12-27-2005, 11:05 PM
A DII NCC is probably the only way for RT to keep his job so he will undoubtedly be strongly opposed. *I highly doubt RT would ever be the commish for a DI NCC if it was to ever happen.


That's interesting.


When is the last time a conference moved up to DI? Did they keep the same commissioner or hire a new one?

bincitysioux
12-27-2005, 11:36 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if the NCC as a whole, or 4 or more of its members decided to go DI, the earliest it could happen would be 2006, if it were declared the exploratory year by September. So in 2007 (correct me if I'm wrong) all the schools would count as DII's in games against DI or I-AA opponents. In 2008, they'd all be considered DI, the same year that NDSU and SDSU are playoff eligible. Being fully DI in 2008 is important because NDSU has said that is the year (once they complete the transition) that every conference will be banging on their door. If by 2008 the SU's are not in the Mid-Con (and they very well could be), or the Big Sky, I think they'd join the DI NCC in a minute. Think about it, the NCC isn't gonna have any pull because of few numbers (4, maybe 5 at most without NDSU/SDSU), and the engine driving this idea is the assumption that NDSU and SDSU will be available to join the NCC when it moves to DI. As much as it pains me to say it, a DI NCC needs NDSU and SDSU in order to be at all viable. So they'd be permitted to join with the stipulation that they may leave without penalty if a more attractive conference comes calling, just like the GWFC. That's why I think NDSU will be in a DI NCC right away if it does happen and they don't already have conference membership.

dakotadan
12-28-2005, 12:17 AM
Obviously this is all speculation. We may very well find out more info after the January NCC meeting. I have heard that the main discussion will be the future of the NCC. Now this could just mean discussion about future DII members, but I am sure there will be plenty of questions about UND and SCSU looking at DI. And possibly what other schools may do if this happens.

I as a UND fan would want a new commissioner for a DI NCC. Partially because the statements RT has made probably didn't create too many friends in DI. And also, getting a new commissioner that has DI connections and experience would probably help out as far as scheduling, gaining respect, etc.

roadwarrior
12-28-2005, 12:57 AM
The biggest problem that I see about all of this St Cloud discussion is: they are now only offering 28 football scholarships. If they cant even afford to offer the current D-II max of 36 to be competitive in that division, why even think that moving to D-I would be beneficial to them?

SDbison
12-28-2005, 03:08 AM
Why do you guys even want a DI NCC now? What is to be gained? At this point NDSU has paid their dues in transition, and a conference outside Minnesota and the Dakotas is better exposure with established DI teams. Most teams in the NCC are not in the position to even think about DI, even SCSU. And even if they went through the steps and tried to create the illusion they were good enough, the NCAA still has to approve the move, correct? As for UND both their motives and actual qualifications to make a DI move is highly questionable. How will their athletic budget explode when hockey is almighty? Why is DI so good now when it was pure evil 2 or 3 years ago? The NCC is like going back to high school when you are in college.........don't you feel like you have outgrown that, really!

NDSU_grad
12-28-2005, 04:22 AM
The argument (at least in my mind) isn't whether NDSU is better suited for a DI NCC or another conference. *It's a no-brainer; an existing conference is much better than a DI NCC because of the autobid. *To me the argument is if we're still in indepent no-man's land come 2008 does a DI NCC start looking more attractive. *Under the scenario bincity presented, I'd say yes.
I would have alot of concerns about all the current NCC schools other than UND being able to fully fund football. *There's no scholarship minimum in I-AA so they could theoretically offer the same number of scholarships they offer now. *I would also be afraid of these schools trying to impose scholarship limitations in football and other sports, which of course would basically leave NDSU in the same position as they were in DII. *In any case, the next few years will be very interesting.

BisonMav
12-28-2005, 05:05 AM
The argument (at least in my mind) isn't whether NDSU is better suited for a DI NCC or another conference. *It's a no-brainer; an existing conference is much better than a DI NCC because of the autobid. *To me the argument is if we're still in indepent no-man's land come 2008 does a DI NCC start looking more attractive. *Under the scenario bincity presented, I'd say yes.

This is a good point, just hope it doesn't come to this. St Cloud is doing the right thing by looking at a DI move, just in case UND leaves the NCC. In I-AA, St Cloud does not even have to have 1 scholarship, and they could look towards a Non-Scholarship conference if they want. Hockey is their bread-and-butter. I believe UNO can raise the funds. I have been getting a lot more request for money from them in the last year. I don't believe the UNL has exclusive rights on Division I theory either. Best of luck to the NCC schools in their time of decision. :)

TheBisonator
12-28-2005, 05:40 AM
This is a good point, just hope it doesn't come to this. *St Cloud is doing the right thing by looking at a DI move, just in case UND leaves the NCC. *In I-AA, St Cloud does not even have to have 1 scholarship, and they could look towards a Non-Scholarship conference if they want. *Hockey is their bread-and-butter. *I believe UNO can raise the funds. *I have been getting a lot more request for money from them in the last year. *I don't believe the UNL has exclusive rights on Division I theory either. *Best of luck to the NCC schools in their time of decision. *:) *


Hey Gil Dobie, did you graduate from UNO??

MplsBison
12-28-2005, 04:48 PM
The biggest problem that I see about all of this St Cloud discussion is: they are now only offering 28 football scholarships. If they cant even afford to offer the current D-II max of 36 to be competitive in that division, why even think that moving to D-I would be beneficial to them?


The article quoted the SC AD as saying their budget would double to $9 million. Don't ask me where they would get the money.

As far as why it would benefit them, do you think the DI move benefitted NDSU? I would say a move to DI for SCSU would benefit them for all the same reasons.

MplsBison
12-28-2005, 04:50 PM
The argument (at least in my mind) isn't whether NDSU is better suited for a DI NCC or another conference. *It's a no-brainer; an existing conference is much better than a DI NCC because of the autobid. *To me the argument is if we're still in indepent no-man's land come 2008 does a DI NCC start looking more attractive. *Under the scenario bincity presented, I'd say yes.
I would have alot of concerns about all the current NCC schools other than UND being able to fully fund football. *There's no scholarship minimum in I-AA so they could theoretically offer the same number of scholarships they offer now. *I would also be afraid of these schools trying to impose scholarship limitations in football and other sports, which of course would basically leave NDSU in the same position as they were in DII. *In any case, the next few years will be very interesting.

I would not want to be in any conference that had scholarship limits.

MplsBison
12-28-2005, 04:52 PM
Why do you guys even want a DI NCC now? *What is to be gained? *At this point NDSU has paid their dues in transition, and a conference outside Minnesota and the Dakotas is better exposure with established DI teams. *Most teams in the NCC are not in the position to even think about DI, even SCSU. *And even if they went through the steps and tried to create the illusion they were good enough, the NCAA still has to approve the move, correct? *As for UND both their motives and actual qualifications to make a DI move is highly questionable. *How will their athletic budget explode when hockey is almighty? *Why is DI so good now when it was pure evil 2 or 3 years ago? *The NCC is like going back to high school when you are in college.........don't you feel like you have outgrown that, really! * *

How much bigger do you anticipate NDSUs budget getting?

Where will this money come from?


I don't see NDSU spending as much as Colorado State or Boise State on athletics. Not for a long time.


In the mean time, being in a conference where every team in our athletic department has to fly to every competition is not cheap.

That's the biggest thing we'd have to gain.

mikelsch
12-28-2005, 07:24 PM
Are you saying that because you really believe it or because you don't want it to happen?


I want whatever is best for NDSU, whatever Gene and the rest of the staff decide.

I don't want a DI NCC because I want to rekindle anything. If we go into the Big Sky, great.


I'm simply think this could be the best move for NDSU financially.


NDSU doesn't belong with those schools (except UND) anymore and is NOT interested in a DI NCC. The lack of interest should be very clear. Other than geography, we are not like them. Those schools are suffocating because they can't afford to play at the same level, so they try to limit our spending/scholarships. And that's just athletics. Research and programs offered - they're not even in the same ballpark. NDSU made the move to maximize their potential in every way. A DI NCC would represent taking 10 steps backwards. The Mid-Con or Big Sky will happen for NDSU, than all of this mumbo-jumbo will go away.

BisonBacker
12-28-2005, 08:50 PM
NDSU doesn't belong with those schools (except UND) anymore and is NOT interested in a DI NCC. *.
I will agree that NDSU is not interested in a DI NCC but how in the world can you say that we are interested in und? *We left them behind with the rest of the NCC. *If we had been interested we would have taken them up on their request to get back on the schedule. *They obviously have shown through their leadership ( I use that word loosely) that they have no interest in making the move unless they can have the ala carte system that will never get past the NCAA. *I think you are completely wrong when you made that statement in regard to undii UND. *There is no reason to expect them to make the move as has already been stated on this forum many times they have too many other problems ie the nickname issue as well as the financial problems that they are already seeing not to mention any proposed move up. *This all has been hashed out many times, I just want to see the Bison continue to move forward, I'm not worried about the old NCC days, that's history! ;D

Edited by Admin - no more UND crap, please.

IowaBisonToo
12-28-2005, 08:53 PM
I don't think it's really a matter of NDSU leaving the other schools "in the dust," because personally, I think if SC were DI, they'd be able to do a better job of recruiting that caliber of player. With that said, if a conference were to happen down the road (I am not in favor of it), there could be the stipulation that schools must meet a minimum scholarship number in certain sports like FB to prevent a huge gap in competition between the SUs of ND and SD and the SUs of MN or someone like USD. If the schools don't like it, no conference.

The other point people here are missing is the academic side of things. NDSU is trying to, and very successfully I might add, bring up the caliber of their programs. The Mankatos and St Clouds, I believe, have maybe a handful of Ph.D. and Ed.D. programs. They tend to limit themselves to Masters degrees. Now, is that a big deal? I'm not sure. But, if you're trying to be recognized as being one of the top schools inthe nation both academically and athletically, then I think you should try and associate with like-minded institutions -- IMHO :)

BisonBacker
12-28-2005, 09:27 PM
If your saying they would be able to better recruit that caliber of player is becuase of their proximity to the Twin Cities I think your wrong. Its not like Fargo is 500 miles away. If a prospective student was looking I think NDSU is far ahead both on the athletic side as well as the academic side. Just beause a school is an hours drive down the road is hardly reason to choose it not to mention just a 2 hours or so more and your in Fargo. Unless you have a different reason to make that statement which I would be interested in hearing if so, I know your a grad student if I remember correctly so I think your partisanship towards SCSU may be influencing your statements which I think are based on a flawed theory. Hell most kids at that age are itching anyway to get away from home. An hours drive isn't like they are getting away ;)

mikelsch
12-28-2005, 09:41 PM
I said that NDSU doesn't belong with these schools, except for UND. If UND wanted to (key term) maximize their abilities, they would be a fine peer DI institution with NDSU and SDSU. I didn't say that we needed or wanted them, cuz we are certainly fine without them.

MplsBison
12-28-2005, 10:11 PM
As far as academics go, NDSU, UND, SDSU, and USD are all PhD research schools. So it's not like we'd be playing with Mayville State.


Overall, I think the DI NCC is the least likely scenario and also the cheapest scenario for NDSU.

The Big Sky is probably the best scenario for us and also the most expensive.

IowaBisonToo
12-28-2005, 10:14 PM
If your saying they would be able to better recruit that caliber of player is becuase of their proximity to the Twin Cities I think your wrong. *Its not like Fargo is 500 miles away. *If a prospective student was looking I think NDSU is far ahead both on the athletic side as well as the academic side. *Just beause a school is an hours drive down the road is hardly reason to choose it not to mention just a 2 hours or so more and your in Fargo. *Unless you have a different reason to make that statement which I would be interested in hearing if so, I know your a grad student if I remember correctly so I think your partisanship towards SCSU may be influencing your statements which I think are based on a flawed theory. *Hell most kids at that age are itching anyway to get away from home. *An hours drive isn't like they are getting away ;)

BB -- I WAS a grad student -- out for 3 years now. In regards to SC being able to recruit because of their proximity to the Cities, that is absolutely not the reason. The statement was made because I think they could expand their recruiting base. You know, move out to more the WI, IA, etc. areas just like NDSU is starting to do in FB by going more down south. SC might, and that's a big might, pull a kid from the U of M or some other larger school, a la Ben Woodside. And, as I've stated before, I don't think SCs bread and butter sport would be FB. I think SC would try and focus on BB as their sports of choice -- after hockey, that is.

bincitysioux
12-29-2005, 01:11 AM
*Those schools are suffocating because they can't afford to play at the same level, so they try to limit our spending/scholarships. .

I don't recall any NCC school requesting a limit on schollies. Refresh my memory. If a DI NCC is on the horizon, and if UND is going to be a founding member or core institution of it, I doubt any scholarship limits will be put in place.

basketballer
12-29-2005, 01:23 AM
I don't recall any NCC school requesting a limit on schollies. Refresh my memory. If a DI NCC is on the horizon, and if UND is going to be a founding member or core institution of it, I doubt any scholarship limits will be put in place.



LOL. Yeah, UND would never want any scholarship limits on a conference. Its not like they are appealing the NCAA to only move their money making sports to D-I. UND must be flush with money, I mean look at what they've done so far:

1. Don't move with their rival.
2. Say that moving may not make financial sense.
3. Appeal the NCAA to only move the sports they want to D-I.
4. Run a deficit in D-II.

Yeah, why would UND ever want scholarship limits? Makes absolutely no sense. Sometimes I wonder if people at UND have any conception of money or what costs are in collegiate athletics. I mean seriously, UND is running a deficit in D-II, but people there talk about UND going D-I like they will be fully funded in D-I, despite all common sense at seeing what their administration is doing right now. Let me spell it out for you.

UND DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY. IF THEY DID THEY WOULD HAVE GONE D-I WITH NDSU/SDSU/UNC. IF THEY DID THEY WOULD NOT BE PETITIONING THE NCAA. IF THEY DID THEY WOULD NOT BE RUNNING A DEFICIT. IF THEY DID THEY WOULDN'T BE USING WAIVERS FOR WOMENS HOCKEY.

Bisonguy
12-29-2005, 01:23 AM
I don't recall any NCC school requesting a limit on schollies. *Refresh my memory. *If a DI NCC is on the horizon, and if UND is going to be a founding member or core institution of it, I doubt any scholarship limits will be put in place. *


The current DII NCC limits men's scholarships in men's sports other than football and basketball- it's either 10 or 15 scholarships for all sports combined.

NDSU_grad
12-29-2005, 02:19 AM
The current DII NCC limits men's scholarships in men's sports other than football and basketball- it's either 10 or 15 scholarships for all sports combined.

I thought it was 25 excluding football.

Edit: I'm a retard. 25 excluding football would be the same as 15 excluding bball and football. Sorry.

bincitysioux
12-29-2005, 03:59 AM
The current DII NCC limits men's scholarships in men's sports other than football and basketball- it's either 10 or 15 scholarships for all sports combined.


Thanks, I didn't know that. *Notice I said "refresh my memory". *I guess I was referring to the revenue sports, and I don't think UND would ask for scholarship limits on FB or BB. *To my knowledge they haven't asked the WCHA to impose limits for women's hockey. *The program is only 3 years old, and in time should be able to support itself. *I doubt that UND would ask for a ceiling on scholarships for football or basketball.

Does anyone have a link to the site where it shows that NDSU's athletic department was profitable in DII?

Also, has NDSU run up the scholarship levels in the non-revenue sports at the same rate they have in Football since moving to DI?

JBB
12-29-2005, 03:05 PM
Well a notation change isnt too bad, but the truth is the truth. *Its hardly an act. * ???

My concern is the modest proposal. *This is DIIism at its best. *I have a lot of reservations about partnering with a university that has been so unable to maintain productive cooperative relationships, not only with NDSU but with the NCC and the NCAA as well.

Heres my take:

1) *BSC goes to 12 teams 2 divisions. They will realize some cost savings by reorganizing to minimize travel. *They add NDSU, SDSU and ?. *It could be North Dakotas largest DII university or even SCSU or another school. *The NCC loses 1 school to the BSC and 2 to the MIAA. *They replenish with the Dac 10.

2) *The Mid Con goes to 12 teams 2 divisions adding NDSU, SDSU and IPFW. *North Dakotas largest DII univesity and SCSU are faced with independent DI schedules with little hope of joining any conference. *The NCC survives as is. *Existing Mid Con members realize significant travel savings by reorganizing to minimize travel. *I think their financial rewards are greater than the BSC so this is probably the most likely option.

Its still difficult for me to believe that the endless objections, protests and general caterwallering that North Dakots largest DII university has conducted against NDSU and actually against Division I are going to be swept under the rug by the committee they have put together. *I dont think either school moves up unless #1 comes to pass and then one would have to wonder what is going on in GF if they move.

MplsBison
12-29-2005, 04:15 PM
Maybe the Big Sky would add NDSU, SDSU, and Southern Utah?

sambini
12-30-2005, 01:05 AM
That sounds like a real sweet deal. ++++

BisonMav
12-30-2005, 02:01 AM
Hey Gil Dobie, did you graduate from UNO??


UNO and NDSU, but being a homegrown North Dakotan, my heart is with the Bison.