NDSU expected to set another enrollment record

[TheBisonator]

I'll give it one year, two at the most, until NDSU surpasses UND in student population.

MSUM, UND enrollments down; NDSU sees gain
By Amy Dalrymple, The Forum
Published Friday, August 25, 2006

"On Thursday, NDSU reported 12,125 students, up 300 from the same time last year, said Prakash Mathew, vice president for student affairs.

That is already above NDSU’s all-time enrollment record of 12,099 students, which the university hit last fall.

“It’s unreal,” Mathew said.

NDSU reported 2,080 incoming freshmen, 749 new transfer students and 1,500 graduate students."

...

"At UND, a large number of graduates last year is reflected this year in a slight enrollment decrease, said university spokesman Peter Johnson.

The latest enrollment figures from UND show 12,401 students. The figure typically grows by several hundred before the official headcount is reported, as graduate students and others continue to register, Johnson said."

UND reported 1,877 freshmen, 714 new transfers and 1,733 graduate students. UND also has 481 students enrolled in law or medical school.

More at: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=137593

NOTE: These are the PRELIMINARY figures. The final fall enrollments are generally several hundred more.

[IowaBison]

both NDSU's and UND's number are bogus, to some extent.


Peoplesoft is junk!

[NDSUguy]

both NDSU's and UND's number are bogus, to some extent.


Peoplesoft is junk!

I don't get that comment? How? Why?

[IowaBisonToo]

both NDSU's and UND's number are bogus, to some extent.


Peoplesoft is junk!

I don't get that comment? *How? *Why?
I think it has something to do with the inadequecies of the software which, I believe, tallies the enrollment of the higher ed institutes within the state.

[Trimmy]

Peoplesoft IS junk and my heart goes out to everyone who has to use it, especially the poor ladies in HR/Payroll who get their butts chewed on an hourly basis for things they have absolutely no control over.

[mikelsch]

According to the reported numbers - NDSU has closed the gap to 250 students behind UND

[PartTime]

I'll give it one year, two at the most, until NDSU surpasses UND in student population.

MSUM, UND enrollments down; NDSU sees gain
By Amy Dalrymple, The Forum
Published Friday, August 25, 2006

"On Thursday, NDSU reported 12,125 students, up 300 from the same time last year, said Prakash Mathew, vice president for student affairs.

That is already above NDSU’s all-time enrollment record of 12,099 students, which the university hit last fall.

“It’s unreal,” Mathew said.

NDSU reported 2,080 incoming freshmen, 749 new transfer students and 1,500 graduate students."

...

"At UND, a large number of graduates last year is reflected this year in a slight enrollment decrease, said university spokesman Peter Johnson.

The latest enrollment figures from UND show 12,401 students. The figure typically grows by several hundred before the official headcount is reported, as graduate students and others continue to register, Johnson said."

UND reported 1,877 freshmen, 714 new transfers and 1,733 graduate students. UND also has 481 students enrolled in law or medical school.

More at: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=137593

NOTE: These are the PRELIMINARY figures. The final fall enrollments are generally several hundred more.


Well, maybe UND should start counting students the way NDSU does. Sound off about it if you want, or maybe look into it first, whatever, but I had read a few years back that students enrolled at MSU and Concordia College who were taking a class or two at NDSU, that NDSU was counting them as students too, whereas UND does not count other schools students who are taking classes at UND. All colleges tally their enrollments differently, which should be changed.

[Bisonguy]

I'll give it one year, two at the most, until NDSU surpasses UND in student population.

MSUM, UND enrollments down; NDSU sees gain
By Amy Dalrymple, The Forum
Published Friday, August 25, 2006

"On Thursday, NDSU reported 12,125 students, up 300 from the same time last year, said Prakash Mathew, vice president for student affairs.

That is already above NDSU’s all-time enrollment record of 12,099 students, which the university hit last fall.

“It’s unreal,” Mathew said.

NDSU reported 2,080 incoming freshmen, 749 new transfer students and 1,500 graduate students."

...

"At UND, a large number of graduates last year is reflected this year in a slight enrollment decrease, said university spokesman Peter Johnson.

The latest enrollment figures from UND show 12,401 students. The figure typically grows by several hundred before the official headcount is reported, as graduate students and others continue to register, Johnson said."

UND reported 1,877 freshmen, 714 new transfers and 1,733 graduate students. UND also has 481 students enrolled in law or medical school.

More at: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=137593

NOTE: These are the PRELIMINARY figures. The final fall enrollments are generally several hundred more.


* * Well, maybe UND should start counting students the way NDSU does. *Sound off about it if you want, or maybe look into it first, whatever, but I had read a few years back that students enrolled at MSU and Concordia College who were taking a class or two at NDSU, that NDSU was counting them as students too, whereas UND does not count other schools students who are taking classes at UND. *All colleges tally their enrollments differently, which should be changed.






Well, maybe NDSU should start counting students the way UND does. A grad student is used for both the graduate student headcount AND the undergrad student head count.

I believe NDSU does not count tri-college students unless the majority of credits are at NDSU. My wife earned her bachelor's at Concordia, even though ALL of her junior and senior level classes were at NDSU. It would have made sense IMO that she would have counted as a NDSU student for those two years.

[IowaBison]

I've never heard your accusation against UND before, Bisonguy. Do you have a reference?

And today, your wife would be counted. She is enrolled in an NDSU class, so she is a counter.


The two most important numbers to NDB:

1) The large number of freshman

2) The number of fulltime students (this is very important: NDSU students are still, for the most part, traditional students; they are not part-timers)

[Bisonguy]

I've never heard your accusation against UND before, Bisonguy. *Do you have a reference?


It was in The Forum a couple years ago. Only one in a few known instances of "miscountings" in the city of Grand Forks (the former mayor was busted for it on state censuses, as well).

[Hammersmith]

Well, maybe UND should start counting students the way NDSU does. Sound off about it if you want, or maybe look into it first, whatever, but I had read a few years back that students enrolled at MSU and Concordia College who were taking a class or two at NDSU, that NDSU was counting them as students too, whereas UND does not count other schools students who are taking classes at UND. All colleges tally their enrollments differently, which should be changed.

Actually, you should probably double-check your facts before you post something like that.

From the Forum, 09/16/2004


NDSU hits 12,000 target
By Mike Nowatzki

Part of that growth came from a change in how North Dakota’s 11 public colleges and universities count students.

The state Board of Higher Education changed its policy in April 2001 so all students are counted regardless of the number of credit hours they take.

For NDSU, that means counting students enrolled at Minnesota State University Moorhead and Concordia College who take classes at NDSU through the Tri-College University.
Unless the SBoHE has changed their policy in the last two years, it looks like both NDSU and UND are counting their enrollment the same way as directed by the State Board.


I'm checking on Bisonguy's assertion now.

[Hammersmith]

Well, maybe NDSU should start counting students the way UND does. A grad student is used for both the graduate student headcount AND the undergrad student head count. *

It was in The Forum a couple years ago.
I searched back to 1995, but I couldn't find anything about this. The closest was this from last year:


Growth leveling
By Mike Nowatzki mnowatzki@forumcomm.com
Metro/State - 09/15/2005
...
NDSU did not release a firstday enrollment figure Aug. 23 because a new software system was generating inconsistent headcounts.

Wallman said the school had to modify how enrollment data is coded so the new PeopleSoft administrative software system would count all of its students. Prior to the modifications, the system omitted students taking both graduate and undergraduate courses, he said.
...

This situation was completely the opposite of the scenario Bisonguy claimed. Wrong school and reversed counting. I don't know if there was another article or not, but it could have been a jumbled memory. In any case, could we please do a little research before posting inflammitory "facts".



It seems I have to back-pedal a bit. I was looking for another article when I stumbled across this. It's not what Bisonguy described, but it does go toward misreporting enrollment at UND.


UND no longer inflates enrollment, Baker says
Bismarck, N.D. (AP) - 03/20/1998
A longstanding habit of inflating fall student enrollments at the University of North Dakota has ended, President Ken Baker told the state Board of Higher Education.
...
For at least 15 years, UND has counted students who registered for fall classes but never attended. The practice did not extend to the spring or summer semesters, Poehls said.

Michel Hillman, vice chancellor of academic affairs for the state university system, said none of North Dakota's 10 other public colleges followed a similar counting method.

Baker, who became UND's president in 1992, said Thursday he had been dubious of the practice and sought to phase it out. But the task was not completed until last fall, Baker and Poehls said. Poehls has been admissions director since 1994.
...
Generally, fall enrollment inflation ranged between 3 percent and 4 percent since 1982, university figures show.


ps. To reinforce my previous post, I happened across this:

UND reports record spring enrollment
Forum staff reports - 02/01/2002
...
This year's tally also includes 170 students taking courses by correspondence.

The North Dakota State Board of Higher Education now requires these students to be included in official enrollment counts.
...


Uggh. I feel like I need to take a shower now. The last 10 years of NDSU/UND relations and UND/ND Legislature relations have not been pretty. I don't think there's been a single year in the past decade where UND has not had a medium-to-major public relations disaster. Let us thank our lucky stars, and our wonderful leadership, that our decade has been very positive on the balance.

[Bisonguy]

I made a few jabs about it on siouxsports back in 2002, so the incident was probably either in 2000 or 2001. Looking back at those comments, I now remember the report stated that some grad students were counted two or THREE times in the census count.

No matter how it's counted, I'd prefer NDSU to have good, consistent, sustainable growth and become the best university it can be, than have an enrollment larger than UND's.

[Tatanka]

I made a few jabs about it on siouxsports back in 2002, so the incident was probably either in 2000 or 2001. * *Looking back at those comments, I now remember the report stated that some grad students were counted two or THREE times in the census count.

No matter how it's counted, I'd prefer NDSU to have good, consistent, sustainable growth and become the best university it can be, than have an enrollment larger than UND's.
+ freaking +
Quality over quantity. But if you can have both, then so be it.

[Bisonguy]

Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks!

[Dakota]

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Edited by tony (admin): When this count gets down to 0, Dakota is gone. Contribute to a discussion, knock if it off with the constant personal attacks, and stop hijacking threads.

[bisonmike]

I would never equate student body size with the quality of the instiution but I think is does say great things about NDSU and our leadership when our enrollment numbers continue to rise even with the area's graduation pools shrinking*.



*thought I read it once in the Forum, don't ask me for specific numbers.

[Hammersmith]

I would never equate student body size with the quality of the instiution but I think is does say great things about NDSU and our leadership when our enrollment numbers continue to rise even with the area's graduation pools shrinking*.



*thought I read it once in the Forum, don't ask me for specific numbers.
You are correct and the numbers are ugly:


College changes a focus (Concordia)
By Mike Nowatzki mnowatzki@forumcomm.com
Metro/State - 05/18/2005
...
The number of high school graduates in North Dakota is projected to drop from 8,064 this year to 6,777 in 2016, according to state Department of Public Instruction figures.

In Minnesota, public and non-public high school graduates were projected to peak at 63,000 in spring 2004 and then drop to 59,000 in 2013, according to the Minnesota Higher Education Services Office.

Even in Fargo, a city growing at an annual rate of almost 2 percent, the number of high school graduates is projected to drop from 2,004 last year to 1,973 in 2016, said Richard Rathge, director of the state Data Center at North Dakota State University.
...

That's a 16% loss in ND over ten years. With NDSU and UND doing almost anything to maintain growth, if anything is going to kill off the small colleges...

[BisonBacker]

I would never equate student body size with the quality of the instiution but I think is does say great things about NDSU and our leadership when our enrollment numbers continue to rise even with the area's graduation pools shrinking*.



*thought I read it once in the Forum, don't ask me for specific numbers.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I beleive I saw a story some time ago on the FM area's high school grad numbers being down but that trend is supposed to turn around in the next few years as I recall they said in the news story (I think it was on channel 6) and that those grad numbers would increase again. Now I'm not saying were going to be setting new record numbers for students graduating but I think this whole business of the numbers going up and down is probably a normal cycle. I think as the FM area continues to grow and if we continue to attract more business in time we will probably be seeing record numbers for both High School and NDSU.

[IowaBison]

No, that isn't going to happen, BisonBacker.

The numbers for North Dakota graduates are horrendous and not going to change. At best they will plateau in about a decade.

Also, there is not an ebb and flow phenomenon that you describe. North Dakota has seen a relatively steady decrease in the number of high school graduates since the 1960's.

[BisonBacker]

I knew that outstate was that way but I thought Fargo had bucked that trend. Guess I'm not recalling the news story on 6 very well then. :-/

[WYOBISONMAN]

It is a trend for the rural states that is pretty scary when one looks at the future. It is fortunate that NDSU is just across the river from Minnesota. The rural parts of ND are really emptying out. Fargo and Bismarck seem to be going great guns, but all is surely not well out on the farm......

[rocko]

9

Edited by tony (admin): When this count gets down to 0, Dakota is gone. Contribute to a discussion, knock if it off with the constant personal attacks, and stop hijacking threads.
This looks like all the things you listed. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. As Gil Dobie pointed out "The pot calling the kettle black"

5

[Hammersmith]

I knew that outstate was that way but I thought Fargo had bucked that trend. *Guess I'm not recalling the news story on 6 very well then. :-/
Those numbers from the Forum were over ten years. It's very possible that Fargo may see a small peak or two within that time frame. If I had to make a guess, I'd say that the current middle school classes are larger than the current high school classes, but the K-3 classes are slightly smaller than the current high school classes. That's just a guess though.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

I knew that outstate was that way but I thought Fargo had bucked that trend. Guess I'm not recalling the news story on 6 very well then. :-/
Those numbers from the Forum were over ten years. It's very possible that Fargo may see a small peak or two within that time frame. If I had to make a guess, I'd say that the current middle school classes are larger than the current high school classes, but the K-3 classes are slightly smaller than the current high school classes. That's just a guess though.

The numbers are really tough in rural areas. Take Mobridge, SD, just across the border from North Dakota. There were something like 75 kids in the senior class last year... and something like a dozen in kindergarten. President Miller said last week that SDSU will report another record head-count enrollment as well (11,100 or so, I'm guessing) despite those trends. I would say that any university that holds steady or grows a little given the demographics is going very well. It's fair to say that NDSU, SDSU (and those other universities) are doing a very good job of attracting students.

[kchats]

I know NDSU has started to recruit students from around the country. I know they offer tuition breaks to children of alumni no matter what state they live in. They started doing this quite a few years ago and will continue to do so. The education offered at NDSU is a very good value and NDSU has a great reputation with employers nationwide so why not attend.