Let's talk about the city for a bit.

[TheBisonator]

Yes, it would be cool if ther was a PF Chang's, too. But who knows what kind of trendy, new places will open up in that new 45th Street Brandt development?? A source told me recently there was plans for a Joe's Crab Shack built around there, but I don't know how true that is.

I'm just baffled at all the strip mall space opening up and still no Jimmy John's in the city.

And yes, I would absolutely LOVE an In-n-Out, but I think those are confined to the west coast. I had one of those burgers in San Francisco this summer, and was AMAZED. Did you know they make the fries from scratch directly from fresh potatoes??

[TheBisonator]

I was also driving around southwest Fargo recently, and I noticed that West Pointe Centre and Liberty Square Phase II (both on 45th St.) are going up framing-wise. Also, houses along Osgood are popping up like mushrooms. The Scheels superstore is almost finished, it looks like. I think they're planning on opening in early June, if I'm not mistaken.

But the thing I'm most interested in is that new Phase I Brandt development that will start construction soon. I heard that a lot of new trendy stores and restaurants that do not yet exist in F-M will be built there.

[Bisonguy]

Yes, it would be cool if ther was a PF Chang's, too. But who knows what kind of trendy, new places will open up in that new 45th Street Brandt development?? A source told me recently there was plans for a Joe's Crab Shack built around there, but I don't know how true that is.

I'm just baffled at all the strip mall space opening up and still no Jimmy John's in the city.

And yes, I would absolutely LOVE an In-n-Out, but I think those are confined to the west coast. I had one of those burgers in San Francisco this summer, and was AMAZED. Did you know they make the fries from scratch directly from fresh potatoes??

Yeah, I felt bad for the kid running the potatoes through the fry cutter thingamabob. Grand Junction does the same thing in Fargo (or Moorhead).

Which may also explain why there is a Jimmy John's in GF, and not Fargo- there's no Broadway Classic Subs, Bertrosa's, Ebert and Gerbert, Cousins, Schlotzky's, or nearly as many Quizno's or Subways.

[TheBisonator]

Yeah, I felt bad for the kid running the potatoes through the fry cutter thingamabob. Grand Junction does the same thing in Fargo (or Moorhead).

Which may also explain why there is a Jimmy John's in GF, and not Fargo- there's no Broadway Classic Subs, Bertrosa's, Ebert and Gerbert, Cousins, Schlotzky's, or nearly as many Quizno's or Subways. *


Is there still an Erbert & Gerbert's in Fargo??

[TheBisonator]

Looks like I answered my own question. I checked their corporate site, and not only is there NOT an Erbert & Gerbert's in Fargo, they're opening one in Grand Forks soon.

WTF??

[Bisonguy]

Looks like I answered my own question. I checked their corporate site, and not only is there NOT an Erbert & Gerbert's in Fargo, they're opening one in Grand Forks soon.

WTF??

There's one in Moorhead near the McDonald's on eighth street.

[TheBisonator]

There's one in Moorhead near the McDonald's on eighth street.


You are correct, sir!!!

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/01/24/25n_carson1_wideweb__430x278.jpg

[sambini]

In and Out would be great for Fargo. I've been to two of then in AZ. and SACREMENTO. Idon't know how far east they have went. They been around a long time inCalifornia.

[DenverBison05]

Almost all of the In N Outs are on the coast, but I do know that they opened on up in Las Vegas so maybe they are starting to move to the East.

[bisonaudit]

In - N - Out is definately top 5 best burger ever!

My other personal favorites in no particular order

5 Guys - Washington, DC metro area
Ted's Montana Grill - All Bison all the time
Burger Time - Fargo, ND and vicinity
some log cabin looking joint in Brainerd, MN, bacon cheeseburger w/ pineapple

[TheBisonator]

In - N - Out is definately top 5 best burger ever!

My other personal favorites in no particular order

5 Guys - Washington, DC metro area
Ted's Montana Grill - All Bison all the time
Burger Time - Fargo, ND and vicinity
some log cabin looking joint in Brainerd, MN, bacon cheeseburger w/ pineapple

Every single building in Brainerd looks like a log cabin. Even the Menards there. I think it's written in the local building code, or something.

[sambini]

Don't forget the burgers at the following Fargo-Moorhead places such as Micks Office, Hi-Ho,Chumleys,and Vics.

[Bisonguy]

Don't forget the burgers at the following Fargo-Moorhead places such as Micks Office, Hi-Ho,Chumleys,and Vics.


I don't know if they still have them, but the Spike Burger at Rick's was the best burger in town IMO. Of course, it's not for those with a weak appetite, or even more important, those with a weak heart. :-/

[TheBisonator]

I read in the Forum today that West Fargo has an estimated population of 21,852 according to the planning commissioner. That place just keeps on growing. I think WF will definitely see 25,000 in 2010, and maybe even surpass Minot before 2020??

[TheBisonator]

Over at SueSports, there's a real interesting thread on ideas of what types of new things (restaurants, hotels, stores) that Grand Forks could use. I think this thread gave them some inspiration. ;D ;D ;D But I'm such a nut for city development issues that I couldn't help discussing some of it in that thread. It's not a smack-worthy thread, just a serious one.

Here's the thread if you're interested at all:
http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5544&st=0&gopid=140153&#entry1 40153

[BismarckBison]

Almost all of the In N Outs are on the coast, but I do know that they opened on up in Las Vegas so maybe they are starting to move to the East.

They also opened one in Reno last year. They also pay the highest wages of any fast food place.

[jjbluecw]

They also opened one in Reno last year. They also pay the highest wages of any fast food place.

Awesome...they should get one of those in GF so the UND grads will have a chance to stay in Forks! :)

[Bison_Pride]

I've heard people say they wish there was a Sonic around here.

[Mr_Meanor]

I really think Fargo needs a Chipotle and I really like Hooligans as well

[NDSU_grad]

I really think Fargo needs a Chipotle *and I really like Hooligans as well
There's a new Hooligan's on Sheyenne St. south of I-94. We want to try it sometime.

[Bisonguy]

A Champps would be nice, as well. I heard that either Gecko's or the BW3's next to it was supposed to be a Champps. Really good food and service at the one in the cities that I frequented for a while.

[Mr_Meanor]

I like the new hooligans alot...I dont know if this is true but I heard that buckcherry is going to play there....I love those guys

[Mr_Meanor]

A Champps would be nice, as well. I heard that either Gecko's or the BW3's next to it was supposed to be a Champps. Really good food and service at the one in the cities that I frequented for a while.

I really like champps as well

[sambini]

Champps rocks been to Maple Grove, Richfield, and Sioux Falls. Great food++++

[TheBisonator]

I forgot to mention they're building a new Kelly Inn on 40th Ave. South in SW Fargo with an outdoors-y theme to it. I read that the hotel will be similar to one built in Mitchell, SD.

So that will be four new hotels under construction in the urban area that I know of:

Candlewood Inn & Suites 19th Ave. North on NDSU campus
Airport Homewood Suites by Hilton 19th Ave. North behind Taco Bell
Staybridge Suites by Marriott 20th Ave. South behind FM Visitors Center
Kelly Inn 40th Ave South

And there will be a much needed boost to the number of hotels in the NDSU/Fargodome/Airport area.

[TheBisonator]

Champps rocks *been to Maple Grove, Richfield, and Sioux Falls. Great food++++

I'd like to see Champps built in Fargo, as I have never been to one before.

[TheBisonator]

I was also told that an A&W will be opening in the new Memorial Union food court. Maybe this explains why the one on 19th was shut down??

[IowaBison]

I was also told that an A&W will be opening in the new Memorial Union food court. Maybe this explains why the one on 19th was shut down??

They moved to South University.

[bisonmike]

Champps rocks *been to Maple Grove, Richfield, and Sioux Falls. Great food++++

I think that a couple of the guys who started Champps quit and started the Granite City chain.

[Herd_Mentality]

bisonmike is correct, i really doubt there will ever be a Champps in Fargo

[Bisonguy]

They moved to South University.

Are you talking about the one by The Bowler? If so, that one's been there for a decade or so.

[roadwarrior]

Try several decades....

[Till]

Didn't that location on S Univerity where it is now used ot be some sort of a Ski Shack? I just remember it was a real shanty looking building.

[Bisonguy]

Didn't that location on S Univerity where it is now used ot be some sort of a Ski Shack? *I just remember it was a real shanty looking building.

The Bike and Ski Shack...

The Bike and Ski Shack....


I can still hear that jingle from Q98. Can't remember when it closed- mid to late 80's??

[roadwarrior]

I havent been down S University for awhile but I think the Ski Shack was previously the A&W. If its the place right across the street to the north of the Bowler, that is the original A&W location in Fargo.

[Bisonguy]

The Bike and Ski Shack...

The Bike and Ski Shack....


I can still hear that jingle from Q98. Can't remember when it closed- mid to late 80's??


??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Geez... after having that jingle stuck in my head for the last hour or so, maybe it was the Golf and Ski Shack. Anyone remember?

[TheBisonator]

Good news for NDSU art and architecture students: I read in the Forum that they will be rebuilding the surface of the parking lot between the NDSU downtown building and Old Broadway on NP Avenue. The current lot is riddled with potholes, cracks and bumps.

[sambini]

It was the GOLF AND SKI SHACK. They were located on south university drive were the Aand W is located now.

[IL_Bison]

I really think Fargo needs a Chipotle *and I really like Hooligans as well

Does anyone else think Chipotle and Qdoba are essentially the same restaurant? I'm personally a Qdoba fan...the Chipotle staff here always skimps on the meat.

I think a Jimmy Johns around campus that would deliver anywhere on campus would do really well.

[DORMIE]

My first post!! Have to update Roadwarior, as I am also an origional,
but the site of the A & W on south university was the second green
of the Fargo Country Club before it was the A & W. This changed in
about 1964. There were 2 other A & W's in Fargo. Friday's which
was on first avenue north where Nodak Mutual and Tuesdays which
was on south university and about 15th Ave. The Golf & Ski Shack
was on that site until it moved to the north side by the Polar.

[IowaBison]

I think a Jimmy Johns around campus that would deliver anywhere on campus would do really well. *

I do. I've been trying to convince my wife to open one with me, not going to happen as she doesn't like the restaurant business.

[TheBisonator]

I do. I've been trying to convince my wife to open one with me, not going to happen as she doesn't like the restaurant business.

Can one franchise a Jimmy John's, or are they all corporate??

[IowaBison]

it's a franchise.

[TheBisonator]

According to the Forum today, Wal-Mart is planning on building a Supercenter just north of the Dilworth Wal-Mart to replace it. I don't tknow what's gonna happen to the current Wal-Mart land, though. Probably to make room for more parking. :P

[Till]

Guess I had heard that there was the possibility for another Sam's Club to go up over there.

[sambini]

They bought 42 acres for 567k not bad.

[TheBisonator]

Looks like I'm ressurecting this thread again, but it looks like Target wants to build next to the intersection of I-29 and 52nd Ave. along with Wal-Mart.

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/target0224%20copy.jpg

Here's the story: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=118624&section=news

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

They bought 42 acres for 567k not bad.


How many grinders can we get for 567k?

Sambini will announce next week the opening of a new

Red Pepper store--it will be located in the Subway on

32nd Ave. South

[sambini]

THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

[sambini]

Wacker are you not opening a IN N OUT BURGER ON 19TH AVE NORTH WERE THE OLD A AND W WAS? OR WAS THAT GOING TO BE A WHITE CASTLE?

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Its gotta be In and Out Burger

4x4 Animal Style

Screw PETA and all the tree huggers

[runtheoption]

Its gotta be In and Out Burger

4x4 Animal Style

Screw PETA and all the tree huggers

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

[Bisonguy]

Wacker are you not opening a IN N OUT BURGER ON 19TH AVE NORTH WERE THE OLD A AND W WAS? OR WAS THAT GOING TO BE A WHITE CASTLE?


White Castle fries only come in one size.

[roadwarrior]

The old A&W on 19th is going to be a Bremer Bank office.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

The old A&W on 19th is going to be a Bremer Bank office.

The ATM's in the lobby will dispense Red Pepper Grinders instead of Cash.

[sambini]

Dam a grinder atm. How about one with sliders to?

[Rodentia]

People actually eat White Castle fries? I admit that a few times a year, there are compulsions that can only be fixed by eating White Castle hamburgers, but I don't touch the fries.

[sambini]

Had my last White Castle meal last June in ST. LOUIS ABOUT A MILE FROM THE Budweiser Brewery. Only other time was in 1982 in the Twin Cities. So I suppose it will be another 20 years for another one. Unless Wacker gets one built in Fargo on 52nd and i29.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

Ham Grinder with taco meat and White Castle Burger and the White Sauce---I am hungry

[sambini]

SOUNDS LIKE A ROAD TRIP.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

[sambini]

Do you think WalMart will still try and build on the east side of 52nd ave. south? Isn't Target thinking of building on the westside of 32nd?

[Tatanka]

Had my last White Castle meal last June in ST. LOUIS ABOUT A MILE FROM THE Budweiser Brewery.
Yes, but have you had Ted Drewes' frozen custard? And if you were that close to the Hill why eat the belly bombers when you can have the best Italian food in the midwest?

[Siouxpreme]

Thought this was pretty comical from the Garrison Keillor Prairie Home Companion Show last night at the Fritz:


Explaining why "evolution is a way of life in North Dakota," radio voicemaster Tim Russell: "Once you see Fargo, you don't believe in intelligent design anymore." ;D ;D

P. S. Don't take it too hard, it was a joke! And it got a pretty good laugh from the audience. ;)

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

They mention Fargo because they know it exists---Grand Forks is an uknown to most people.

To know Grand Forks is to understand that this is where our siouxage flows.

Siouxpreme---I have been to Grand Forks shit_y place to visit----and a worse place to live.

[sambini]

I do like the RED PEPPER THOUGH.

[TheBisonator]

They mention Fargo because they know it exists---Grand Forks is an uknown to most people.

To know Grand Forks is to understand that this is where our siouxage flows.

Siouxpreme---I have been to Grand Forks shit_y place to visit----and a worse place to live.

You hit the nail on the freaking head. The reason they might use Fargo as the butt of North Dakota jokes is because Fargo is the only place in the state worth mentioning. It's like I told a Sioux fan once: Go to New York and tell a cab driver that you're from Fargo, and they'll say, "Yeah, I've heard of that place. Like the movie, right??" But tell them you're from Grand Forks, and they'll ask you what the hell a "Grand Forks" is. You don't see anyone making jokes about Grand Forks, because no one gives a shit about that place. At least people KNOW of Fargo.

[TheBisonator]

Getting back to the topic of the thread, I heard someone mention about the Wal-Mart and Target superstores being built on 52nd and I-29. I heard lately that Wal-Mart is actually looking into the plot of land on the northwest corner of that intersection, rather than the northeast corner, which is getting local residents all riled up. Both those plots of land are owned by the Hectors. What we know for sure is that a SuperTarget WILL be built on the southwest corner of that intersection, because there's no land dispute. Fargo just needs to annex that land which is in its immediate extraterritorial area. because things move relatively fast in this city compared to other places, you might see the SuperTarget break ground this summer. The Wal-Mart is a different story, as there still are kinks that need to be worked out.

[sambini]

A SUPER TARGET would be great.

[Siouxpreme]

You hit the nail on the freaking head. The reason they might use Fargo as the butt of North Dakota jokes is because Fargo is the only place in the state worth mentioning.

Wrong again! *Since the show was nationally broadcast "live from the beautiful Chester Fritz Auditorium on the Campus of The University of North Dakota in Grand Forks" - UND and Grand Forks were both mentioned prominently throughout the broadcast. *Garrison Keillor gave a long oration on Grand Forks' history, on UND's athletic prowess, and there were several skits that intertwined what is happening in Grand Forks (the building of a mega entertainment complex/water park and the possiblity of a casino) with national politics. *That line was about the only one about Fargo, because Fargo is known for its haphazard development. * Minot and Bismarck got more mentions than Fargo. *(not to knock Fargo or anything)

BTW, they did have a few knocks on the Bison and going DI - it was probably too sophisticated *for you guys to get. *(It was about an old lady wearing a bison sweatshirt who finally gets her place in the cabaret spotlight by showing her buffalos.)

[Siouxpreme]

A SUPER TARGET would be great.

Like the one in Grand Forks?! ;)

[Bisonguy]

...... what is happening in Grand Forks (the building of a mega entertainment complex/water park and the possiblity of a casino) with national politics.



How many movie screens will that mega "entertainment" complex have?

[sambini]

This thread is about FARGO-MOORHEAD. Who cares about GF.

[Bisonguy]

This thread is about FARGO-MOORHEAD. Who cares about GF.


++


How about all the western destinations now availabe from Hector International Airport?

Makes it a lot easier to get to some of those WAC cities.

[Siouxpreme]

Siouxpreme---I have been to Grand Forks shit_y place to visit----.
COuld imagine that most places you visit are crappy, but they get so much better when you leave! ;) ;D ;D ;D

[Siouxpreme]

This thread is about FARGO-MOORHEAD. Who cares about GF.

Hall_Wacker brought it up.

[NanoBison]

++


How about all the western destinations now availabe from Hector International Airport?

Makes it a lot easier to get to some of those WAC cities.


With the new Delta airlines flights starting on June 8th, it also makes it alot easier to get to those EXTREME west cities in the Big Sky conference (you know, the ones bitching about the travel distance). Trips to Sacramento, Portland, Denver, Phoenix, are all less than 5 hours.

[BisonBacker]

This thread is about FARGO-MOORHEAD. Who cares about GF.
They have nothing to talk about in that hole up there so they have to come on here and try to knock the FM area.
Once again a Fargo wannabe.

[imabison]

Like the one in Grand Forks?! ;)


Open your eyes. The FM Area has 2 targets. Soon a Target Super Center, very possibly both of the others will be Super Target. They are always expanding them.

[sambini]

The only thing they got in GF is the RED PEPPER. Thats it. We got two TARGETS and maybe a SUPER TARGET. hmmm just shows what happens in the thriving cities oF FARGO-MOORHEAD.

[TheBisonator]

It's more sad when the Grand Forks yahoos come onto this thread and start talking up their city than when the Sioux Falls yahoos come on here. It makes me want to laugh. At least with the Sioux Falls yahoos, there's legitimate debate, and I actually respect Sioux Falls. But with GF, well...

[TheBisonator]

Speaking of El Forko Grande, I remember clicking on a WDAZ video link from a thread on the new Canad Inns construction, and the news people were spending a bunch of time on that story talking about a NEW ARBY'S RESTAURANT BEING BUILT IN SOUTH GRAND FORKS!!! WOW!!! (who the fu!@#$ cares??) That's just like GF. Think small, build small. Fargo spends its news time talking about a 640-acre new urbanist development (Which is gonna be frickin' sweet, BTW), and GF spends its time talking about an Arby's. Another difference right there.

[sambini]

All I cAn say is I'm glad we had Dennis Walaker in 1997.

[TheBisonator]

I hear ya, sambini.

[buffalobill]

Dennis Walaker will be plus for the city, the state, the region. He has a D-1 attitude!

[NanoBison]

Does anybody have any links to information on the potential mayors for Fargo? I'd like to read up on some of them before the vote, especially this Walaker gentlemen you guys are taking about...

[NanoBison]

Since this article is on the new projects going on in Fargo-Moorhead, I figured I'd give a heads up, construction season is starting here pretty quick. I just got off of I-29 after the HP blocked off the road so this enormous crane could cross it.

[Bisonguy]

Since this article is on the new projects going on in Fargo-Moorhead, I figured I'd give a heads up, construction season is starting here pretty quick. I just got off of I-29 after the HP blocked off the road so this enormous crane could cross it.

Yeah, the 19th ave. bridge will be down to one lane pretty soon.

[TheBisonator]

Yeah, the 19th ave. bridge will be down to one lane pretty soon.


There's also gonna be lots of gridlock in the center of town with the rebuilding of University and Main/NP.

[Bisonguy]

There's also gonna be lots of gridlock in the center of town with the rebuilding of University and Main/NP.



Speaking of Main Ave., I saw on the news last night that the NDSU landscape architecture program designed the section from 25th to 45th that will begin work this spring. Pretty cool project that they'll get to see in town.

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

COuld imagine that most places you visit are crappy, but they get so much better when you leave! * ;) ;D ;D ;D

Siouxpreme ---you could put Super Target, Super WalMart---you could put a frickin Tiffany's in GrandForks --it would still be a shi_hole. The fact that you defend the town defines your ignorance.

Anybody who has been there knows this---by the way I talked to a number of people who attended the EDC basketball tourney played last week in the Alerabin---all said it was biggest joke--terrible facility--poorly run

But then is that any suprise???


I keep flushin it ----GF keeps taking it!

[buffalobill]

Wacker_in_the_Hall Could you please tell us how you really feel about this topic???? ;D ;D ;D

[imabison]

Yeah, the 19th ave. bridge will be down to one lane pretty soon.


I think you might want to read the constructions signs that are going up. 19th Ave will be Closed from Soon until the bridge is replaced. I wish you were correct, but the bridge is showing its age and its time to be replaced.

I am not looking forward to alternate routes this summer.

[sambini]

Wacker_in_the_Hall *Could you please tell us how you really feel about this topic???? ;D ;D ;D
He feels the same way I do about this subject. Well its time flush again.++++++++++++++=

[Wacker_in_the_Hall]

+++++++++++++++


Amen---Doctor Sambini

[TheBisonator]

I must've eaten some bad lunch, because Grand Forks isn't gonna like what I flushed... :D

[BisonBacker]

Sambini, Whacker_In_The_Hall
I agree with you guys on this 100%
There isn't one redeeming thing about Grand Forks. The Red should have been allowed to run its course and flood that area. ;D

[Bisonguy]

I think you might want to read the constructions signs that are going up. 19th Ave will be Closed from Soon until the bridge is replaced. *I wish you were correct, but the bridge is showing its age and its time to be replaced. *

I am not looking forward to alternate routes this summer.


@#$@#$%!%- One of the news reports stated that 19th would be one lane while the bridge was worked on. I figured it would have been something like Main Ave. when the bridge was replaced (albeit only westbound traffic). Looks like I'll be taking 12th a lot.


Hopefully the County Route 20 bridge is finished soon.

[IL_Bison]

@#$@#$%!%- One of the news reports stated that 19th would be one lane while the bridge was worked on. I figured it would have been something like Main Ave. when the bridge was replaced (albeit only westbound traffic). Looks like I'll be taking 12th a lot.


Hopefully the County Route 20 bridge is finished soon.


I think my friend that works at the NDSU farms will have a long summer running machinery up to County 20 and back down to Reile's Acres, unless they just take the ditches and jump across interstate.

[imabison]

I think my friend that works at the NDSU farms will have a long summer running machinery up to County 20 and back down to Reile's Acres, unless they just take the ditches and jump across interstate.



I am sure you have now seen the digital sign that says closing March 15th...Heck this could really create a mess for getting to football in September. Lucky for me I walk to the games.

[TheBisonator]

I am sure you have now seen the digital sign that says closing March 15th...Heck this could really create a mess for getting to football in September. *Lucky for me I walk to the games.

Amen to that.

[imabison]

Amen to that.



Even NASTIER news this summer there are plans to work on the Main Avenue and University intersection. Also, 12th ave N resurfacing to University, AND some approach work to the 12th ave I-29 bridge.

Geez, I think I should rent an apartment in West Fargo for the summer.

[Bisonguy]

Even NASTIER news this summer there are plans to work on the Main Avenue and University intersection. *Also, 12th ave N resurfacing to University, AND some approach work to the 12th ave I-29 bridge. *

Geez, I think I should rent an apartment in West Fargo for the summer.

12th Ave N west or east of University?

[sambini]

Now one of our 4 seasons approaches ROAD CONSTRUCTION.

[imabison]

12th Ave N west or east of University?


There was talk of work on 12th Ave West of University. Resurfacing, and something about widening or fixing the access to match the bridge.

Forum today says that the 19th Ave Bridge replacement should be done by Mid August. That is good for access to the Fargodome for football this fall.

[TheBisonator]

Anyone hear any news on that South Fargo SuperTarget being planned?? All I know is that the city is going to annex the area, and bids would be put up after that.

[Bisonguy]

Now one of our 4 seasons approaches ROAD CONSTRUCTION.


I thought it was one of two seasons. ???

[Bisonguy]

There was talk of work on 12th Ave West of University. *Resurfacing, and something about widening or fixing the access to match the bridge. *

Forum today says that the 19th Ave Bridge replacement should be done by Mid August. *That is good for access to the Fargodome for football this fall.

Good news indeed, although the offramps will supposedly remain open. I don't believe there are a lot of people that are driving from the north to the Fargodome. :-X

[TheBisonator]

Good news indeed, although the offramps will supposedly remain open. I don't believe there are a lot of people that are driving from the north to the Fargodome. * :-X

There should be. They should come down here every now and then to see what TRUE DI football is like. ;D

[TheBisonator]

I was looking at the US Census website, and I saw that they came out with new county population estimates (2005 data). The 4-county Fargo-Moorhead-Wahpeton metro area is counted at just about 209,000 people even.

Cass County - 131,019
Clay County - 53,838
Richland County - 17,340
Wilkin County - 6,802

Total - 208,999

I also noticed that the annual rate at which Cass and Clay counties have been growing have been speeding up in the past 2-3 years. Who knows, we might see 220-225,000 in the metro by the next census, now that Richland and Wilkin counties will be added.

Pretty damn good.

[MplsBison]

I don't see how Richland and Wilkin would be added.

It's at least an hour drive from Fargo to Wahpeton with nothing but farms inbetween.

[SDbison]

I don't see how Richland and Wilkin would be added.

It's at least an hour drive from Fargo to Wahpeton with nothing but farms inbetween.
Wahpeton is more like a 40 minute drive.

[JACKGUYII]

In the March 16th edition of the USA Today was a stroy about the population changes from 2000-2005 in the fastest-growing and fastest shrinking counties with populations of 10,000 or more. Lincoln County of the Sioux Falls Metro area at 38.2% increase was once again one of the fastest growing counties in the country. "Some Midwestern states-notably Kansas,Nebraska and North Dakota had more counties losing population than gaining". One of the fastest shrinking counties in the country Ward County North Dakota -5.2%.

[Bigears]

In the March 16th edition of the USA Today was a stroy about the population changes from 2000-2005 in the fastest-growing and fastest shrinking counties with populations of 10,000 or more. Lincoln County of the Sioux Falls Metro area at 38.2% increase was once again one of the fastest growing counties in the country. "Some Midwestern states-notably Kansas,Nebraska and North Dakota had more counties losing population than gaining". One of the fastest shrinking counties in the country Ward County North Dakota -5.2%.

Is there a point somewhere in all of that?

[TheBisonator]

Is there a point somewhere in all of that?


Don't mind him. He's one of those Sioux Falls yahoos.

[SDbison]

In the March 16th edition of the USA Today was a stroy about the population changes from 2000-2005 in the fastest-growing and fastest shrinking counties with populations of 10,000 or more. Lincoln County of the Sioux Falls Metro area at 38.2% increase was once again one of the fastest growing counties in the country. "Some Midwestern states-notably Kansas,Nebraska and North Dakota had more counties losing population than gaining". One of the fastest shrinking counties in the country Ward County North Dakota -5.2%.
The only reason Lincoln county SD makes the top growth list is due to percentage. To explain, Sioux Falls lies in the southern edge of Minnehaha county. Recent growth (primarily on the south edge of Sioux Falls) has pushed the city into Lincoln county. Since Lincoln county has no medium to large towns the growth in population skew the growth numbers. Growth in places like Las Vegas and Phoenix, in dollars or population, would dwarf the so called top ranked numbers of Lincoln county. That percentage is just another example of how statistics can be mis-used.

[Tatanka]

Indeed. It's estimated that 23.25% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[DenverBison05]

Indeed. *It's estimated that 23.25% of statistics are made up on the spot.

With that being one of them? ;)

[Tatanka]

Indeed. Congratulations. You're one of the approximately 82.63% that get the joke.

[RedRiver]

In the March 16th edition of the USA Today was a stroy about the population changes from 2000-2005 in the fastest-growing and fastest shrinking counties with populations of 10,000 or more. Lincoln County of the Sioux Falls Metro area at 38.2% increase was once again one of the fastest growing counties in the country. "Some Midwestern states-notably Kansas,Nebraska and North Dakota had more counties losing population than gaining". One of the fastest shrinking counties in the country Ward County North Dakota -5.2%.

Yes, only Cass and Burleigh counties had a growth rate of 5-15%. Three more counties located on Indian reservations had a growth rate up to 5%. Every other county in ND had a population loss including Grand Forks.

[TheBisonator]

Yes, only Cass and Burleigh counties had a growth rate of 5-15%. *Three more counties located on Indian reservations had a growth rate up to 5%. *Every other county in ND had a population loss including Grand Forks.

I looked it up, and the only 6 counties in ND that grew are Cass, Burleigh, Morton, Sioux, Rolette and Benson. There's a lot of work to be done in this state.

Pretty sad that GF county is still stagnant. I thought that it would start growing again.

[sambini]

Grand Forks with the base being realigned they are bound to lose numbers. Also is there any new industry going to Grand Forks?

[BisonBacker]

You can pretty much be assured that the base up in GF will be losing approximately 2/3rds of the staff according to numbers previously released. Not sure what it will do to Fargo when they lose the F16's and go to flying the drones. I do think however Fargo can absorb the transition much easier then GF can.

[Bisonguy]

You can pretty much be assured that the base up in GF will be losing approximately 2/3rds of the staff according to numbers previously released. *Not sure what it will do to Fargo when they lose the F16's and go to flying the drones. *I do think however Fargo can absorb the transition much easier then GF can. *

The Happy Hooligans will also be flying C-130's out of Fargo.

[NanoBison]

That will definitely be interesting to see. I hope though that they do eventually reassign fighter type aircraft to the Happy Hooligans. They are fighter pilots and probably some of the best in the country. As long as we have something to fly and keep them airborne that's alright with me.

I wouldn't mind seeing F-15's or F-18's up here....

{THIS IS A BIG STRETCH AND I KNOW IT PROBABLY WON'T HAPPEN}

I actually wouldn't mind seeing them get F-22 Raptors or F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.... (Count my blessings if that were to ever happen)

[sambini]

A big thanks to the HAPPY HOOLIGANS for all they do.

[BisonBacker]

The Happy Hooligans will also be flying C-130's out of Fargo.

It's my understanding that the C-130's are not a permanent placement. Did you hear something different. I have a cousin flying c-130's out of Milwaukee and another working out at the guard. I will have to see what they have to say about it.

[Till]

The C-130's are a temporary assignment until they get the new, smaller cargo planes that are expected to be more 'permanent' here.

[TheBisonator]

Does anyone know how many total Happy Hooligans and Air National Guard members there are operating out of Fargo?? I'm sure it must be quite a bit.

[NanoBison]

I think the number of total employment at the Air National Guard at Hector is somewhere around 1,000. I can't remember where I saw that number, I'll try to find a decent source for that number.

By the way, I was driving into campus around 5:00pm from I-29. Holy crap is there alot of traffic from 19th being closed. I'd suggest to myself using University, but that's going to close pretty soon as well.

[TheBisonator]

Sorry to bring up the thread again, but I was driving by the new Scheels store on 45th, and they have Scheels signage up and the digital welcome sign installed. It looks like the place will open very very soon. That place will be HUGE. I can't wait. ;)

[Bisonguy]

Sorry to bring up the thread again, but I was driving by the new Scheels store on 45th, and they have Scheels signage up and the digital welcome sign installed. It looks like the place will open very very soon. That place will be HUGE. I can't wait. ;)

They had features on the ferris wheel on many of the newscasts last night. There is a Bison themed car (or whatever you call what you sit in on a ferris wheel) that will be on the ferris wheel

[roadwarrior]

They had features on the ferris wheel on many of the newscasts last night. There is a Bison themed car (or whatever you call what you sit in on a ferris wheel) that will be on the ferris wheel


Thanks to advertising $$$ from NDSU!

[TheBisonator]

There's now going to be a THIRD Menards in the F-M area?? You have GOT to be kidding me!!!

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/retail0411%20copy.jpg

That intersection of 52nd Avenue and I-29 will go from a dusty hick overpass with a rickety fireworks store to what will appear to be one of the largest commercial centres in North Dakota.

I mean THREE MENARDS!!! D A M N!!!

That will make the total count at three Menards, two Home Depots and one Lowe's.

Think of how much the value of the town of Frontier will grow. :o

The full story is here: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=123245&section=news

[roper]

Even if all this develpment is a bit much it would be great for the fargo school district if 52nd ave became a retail corridor.

Not that I'm biased with a teacher wife and two kids entering the system in the next few years. 8-)

[BisBison]

Even if all this develpment is a bit much it would be great for the fargo school district if 52nd ave became a retail corridor.

Not that I'm biased with a teacher wife and two kids entering the system in the next few years. *8-)
Is all of the proposed development in the Fargo district, or just the part east of I-29?

[TheBisonator]

Even if all this develpment is a bit much it would be great for the fargo school district if 52nd ave became a retail corridor.

Not that I'm biased with a teacher wife and two kids entering the system in the next few years. *8-)
Is all of the proposed development in the Fargo district, or just the part east of I-29?

As far as I know, those three plots of land are all located within the Fargo School District. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[BisBison]

Even if all this develpment is a bit much it would be great for the fargo school district if 52nd ave became a retail corridor.

Not that I'm biased with a teacher wife and two kids entering the system in the next few years. *8-)
I don't think this development is too much for Fargo, Bismarck is getting 2 super Walmarts, a Sam's club and a Super Target, all this year. And this is after a Lowe's, Home Depot, Best Buy, Kohl's, and PetSmart all opened late last year.

[TheBisonator]

Even if all this develpment is a bit much it would be great for the fargo school district if 52nd ave became a retail corridor.

Not that I'm biased with a teacher wife and two kids entering the system in the next few years. *8-)
I don't think this development is too much for Fargo, Bismarck is getting 2 super Walmarts, a Sam's club and a Super Target, all this year. And this is after a Lowe's, Home Depot, Best Buy, Kohl's, and PetSmart all opened late last year.

Bismarck is getting a SuperTarget??

Something doesn't seem right about the fact that Fargo will have a SuperTarget after Grand Forks and Bismarck already have one. The same thing happened with Starbucks. They first built them in Bismarck and Grand Forks. Hell, GF had two of them before Fargo even had one. :-? Is there a reason why a lot of investors choose not to expand their businesses into Fargo first when moving into North Dakota??

[Bison_Dan]

Even if all this develpment is a bit much it would be great for the fargo school district if 52nd ave became a retail corridor.

Not that I'm biased with a teacher wife and two kids entering the system in the next few years. *8-)
I don't think this development is too much for Fargo, Bismarck is getting 2 super Walmarts, a Sam's club and a Super Target, all this year. And this is after a Lowe's, Home Depot, Best Buy, Kohl's, and PetSmart all opened late last year.

Bismarck is getting a SuperTarget??

Something doesn't seem right about the fact that Fargo will have a SuperTarget after Grand Forks and Bismarck already have one. The same thing happened with Starbucks. They first built them in Bismarck and Grand Forks. Hell, GF had two of them before Fargo even had one. :-? Is there a reason why a lot of investors choose not to expand their businesses into Fargo first when moving into North Dakota??


You have to remember that Fargo has alot of competition - these stores are more unique in those markets. Plus if they go in there first it might stop some of their competition from building there.

[roper]

First, yes those develpments lie in the fargo school district. *In south fargo the boundry is roughly 45th street.

Second, as far as target I know for a fact that the west acres store does so well they didn't want to mess with a good ting. *I think that with the growth southwest we'll see more big retailers looking at those areas. *

I live on 62nd ave south and would love to be able to avoid the 13th ave area. ;D

[NanoBison]

There's now going to be a THIRD Menards in the F-M area?? You have GOT to be kidding me!!!

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/retail0411%20copy.jpg

That intersection of 52nd Avenue and I-29 will go from a dusty hick overpass with a rickety fireworks store to what will appear to be one of the largest commercial centres in North Dakota.

I mean THREE MENARDS!!! D A M N!!!

That will make the total count at three Menards, two Home Depots and one Lowe's.

Think of how much the value of the town of Frontier will grow. :o

The full story is here: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=123245&section=news



Frontier better make sure it doesn't get gobbled up. I could see another big retailer being interested in the land
that little town occupies. Buy the houses, bulldoze em, in moves (Costco, IKEA, Home Depot, the list goes on and on).
To do it costs sum change, but with the profits a retailer would make at that intersection, I wouldn't want to have a house there.


Another thing to watch out for is the 9th street interchange that will go over I-94 between Fargo and West Fargo.
I see retailers wanting to park it there too. (Right next to a new huge school mind you).

It should be interesting.

[bisonaudit]

Is everyone in Fargo really complaining about their property tax bills or was the Forum just short on actual news today?

From what I could decipher in the article it doesn't look like tax rates actually increased.

Instead people are paying more tax because the market value of their house has increased. A mild strain on short-term cash flow vs. a large increase in the value of your largest asset. What's to complain about?

Let them eat cake.

[MplsBison]

What about building your house just outside the city limits? Are taxes better/worse then?

[BisBison]

What about building your house just outside the city limits? Are taxes better/worse then?

I'm not sure what benefits there would be to that, but whatever they might be would be short lived. Fargo annexes land every year, so just outside the city limits one year could very well be just inside the next.

[broke_back_mnt]

Property taxes are composed of a school tax, city tax and county tax. If you build outside the city limit you would avoid the city portion of your real estate taxes. School district and city boundries are not congruent. Thats why the West Fargo School District covers the West Acres area. Years ago, Fargo annexed part of the West Fargo school district. That changed the city boundries but not school district boundries. As Fargo grows this type of overlap will become more and more common.

[roadwarrior]

The Fargo city planning commission today rejected the rezoning on the east side of I-29 for the proposed Walmart there.

[buffalobill]

THE CITY NEEDS A WAC ATTACK :) :) :) :) :) :)GREAT FOR THE COMMUNITIES PROFILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheBisonator]

I really hope that the rejection of a Wal-Mart Supercenter on that intersection won't make Menards and Target want to pull out their interest in that land. I really see that intersection becoming another huge place in the very near future, and I don't want the whims of a few angry NIMBYs get in the way of that vision.

[SDbison]

Is everyone in Fargo really complaining about their property tax bills or was the Forum just short on actual news today?

From what I could decipher in the article it doesn't look like tax rates actually increased.

Instead people are paying more tax because the market value of their house has increased. *A mild strain on short-term cash flow vs. a large increase in the value of your largets asset. *What's to complain about?

Let them eat cake.
So does the cost of operating a school system go up because housing values go up? Taxation in this form is punitive and leads to more government waste.

[NanoBison]

Fargo really screwed the pooch on the whole West Acres tax issue for school funding.
If the Fargo school system wants to increase funds, we need more development IN fargo.

Can you guys guess where the taxes from the new SCHEELS will go? Yep you guessed it West Fargo.
I'd say start developing the areas NORTH and south of the city. Make sure though, the development
doesn't fall in West Fargo's school districts. That city gets quite enough help from the people of Fargo.


Does anybody know if that new 640 acre Brandt City-within-a-City development will fall in Fargo school
districts boundaries or West Fargo's?

[roper]

Fargo really screwed the pooch on the whole West Acres tax issue for school funding.
If the Fargo school system wants to increase funds, we need more development IN fargo.

Can you guys guess where the taxes from the new SCHEELS will go? Yep you guessed it West Fargo.
I'd say start developing the areas NORTH and south of the city. Make sure though, the development
doesn't fall in West Fargo's school districts. That city gets quite enough help from the people of Fargo.


Does anybody know if that new 640 acre Brandt City-within-a-City development will fall in Fargo school
districts boundaries or West Fargo's?



The Brandt develpment is in WF School district land.

BisonAudit. *The complaint from homeowners is that the city seems to be increasing their assesments at a rediculous rate. *My neighbor behind me has a 2 bedroom up, 2 bedroom down split level on a nice lot in south fargo and his assessment went up $41,000 this year. *:o *16 months ago his property value went up $15,000 and the answer from the assessor office at that time is that he should be fine for quite a while. *The city has his home valued at $231,000 for this house. *With the housing market slumping a little I'd move out this afternoon is the city would buy my house for it's "assessed" value. 8-)

[roper]

The Fargo city planning commission today rejected the rezoning on the east side of I-29 for the proposed Walmart there.

I'm wondering if those in the Meadow Creek development are willing to make up the $300,000+ in tax revenue that the city just lost. *There must be about 100 homes in that development, that only $3000 bucks a year, no big deal right? ::)

City of Fargo's moto: Not in our backyard!!

The city council is trying to figure out how to increase revenue, and they make this decision. *Makes lots of sense to me. * >:(

[roadwarrior]

The answer to the school district boundry problems is easy. The Fargo and West Fargo school districts should merge into one large metropolitan school district. It will never happen though because if it was merged, there would only be one school board. So half the board members would be out, and we know that based on that fact alone, it would never pass.

[mikelsch]

Fargo should just invade West Fargo and take it over.

[MplsBison]

The answer to the school district boundry problems is easy. The Fargo and West Fargo school districts should merge into one large metropolitan school district. It will never happen though because if it was merged, there would only be one school board. So half the board members would be out, and we know that based on that fact alone, it would never pass.


Oh boy!

Can you imagine the outcry?

It would go on for years with bad blood probably for decades.

[bisonaudit]

ND has a chronic underemployment problem.

Low wage employers who agressivelly control personnel costs by limiting hours to circumvent benefit protections guaranteed to full-time employees, and shamelessly farm out their new store costruction, to non-local, low wage operators with questionable hiring practices, are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

That's my 2 cents on Wal-Mart. Make that 1 cent, thanks to the smilely faced price cut fairy.

[bisonaudit]

So if the complaint is really that the appraisials don't reflect market value, why didn't anyone interviewed for the article say so, and why didn't the reporter discuss the issue in that context.

What I read was people complaining that they were unduely burdened by the tax, not that the tax was incorrectly assessed.

In the article I saw, no one said 'the appraisal is wrong,' they just said 'I don't want to pay.'

Either the story was terribly written and missed the point entirely, or the interviewies are looking to cut off their nose to spite their face.

[NanoBison]

I would imagine the many of the people have the view of pay the least amount of taxes available, therefore
make your house worth less than it really is, but when it would come to selling the house, pray to god for a much
higher assessed value so you can make a nice profit.

Am I right or did I miss something?

[bisonaudit]

Well sure that's the tactic. But how does whining about your tax increase serve to lower it? Presenting a coherent argument complete with your own appraisal of your home may actually get you somewhere. Begging for sympathay because the appraiser says your assets are worth more than they were yesterday and the big bad government wants to share in a small slice of your good fortune for the purpose of providing services beneficial to the entire tax paying community just doesn't get it done in my book.

[NanoBison]

Exactly. You can't have it both ways folks.

[roper]

Well sure that's the tactic. *But how does whining about your tax increase serve to lower it? *Presenting a coherent argument complete with your own appraisal of your home may actually get you somewhere. *Begging for sympathay because the appraiser says your assets are worth more than they were yesterday and the big bad government wants to share in a small slice of your good fortune for the purpose of providing services beneficial to the entire tax paying community just doesn't get it done in my book.

I agree that you need to have a coherent argument (i.e. here is a sample of like homes that are appraised at x, why do you have me at y.) Bitching will only get you a double apraisal next year. ;D My problem is that the city is basing their assesments on an assumed value that the homeowner only benefits from if they sell their house. Why not have a "capital gain tax" on home sales that replaces the current system? Will the city drop my homes value if the housing market goes into the tank? I don't think so.

What really chaps my hide is that the city includes their rediculously high special assesments in the value of the home for tax purposes. Specials that I'm paying off over 10 years are included in the value at thier full cost. >:(

[bisonaudit]

Actually there is a capital gain tax on home sales as part of your federal and state income tax. Most individuals never pay it becuase as long as you reinvest in another home or it isn't your 3rd house that you're selling the transaction is generally tax exempt. This is one of the things the governement does to encourage home ownership, along with the massive income tax deductions for all that property tax and interest you pay on your mortgage.

[TheBisonator]

I've had this crazy vision recently of having Fargo and West Fargo merged into one city, and call it "Greater Fargo." Then there would be one school district, and there would be no more border disputes. Kind of like what Port Arthur and Fort William, Ontario did in 1970 to create the city of Thunder Bay. Maybe as an incentive for merging, Fargo would let (formerly) West Fargo be local tax-free for 5 years, or something like that. If done tomorrow, it would create a city of around 125,000 people. Maybe that's something we should be thinking about in the future. I know for a fact that urban growth would be better managed with one "supercity", and it would be a lot easier to deal with local taxes and school funding.

Call it a crazy idea, but I really think this could work.

[MplsBison]

But then you'd have the same problem that the FSD/WFSD merger would create. IE, the duplicate adminstration positions would be cut.

And if there's one thing that administrators hate, it's the threat of losing their jobs.

[Bison7925]

[quote author=roper link=1124849999/405#411 date=1144960100*

What really chaps my hide is that the city includes their rediculously high special assesments in the value of the home for tax purposes. *Specials that I'm paying off over 10 years are included in the value at thier full cost. * *>:(
[/quote]

FYI It's the developer that is responsible for you having the special assessments. In most of the country the developer is required to pay these up front and include them in the cost of the lot. In the late 70's and early 80's the city got a lot of property back because the developers couldn't pay the specials. That's when they were forced to carrying them. Right now all a developer has to do is buy some land and plat it out. They don't carry much risk anymore.

[Bisonguy]

I've had this crazy vision recently of having Fargo and West Fargo merged into one city, and call it "Greater Fargo." Then there would be one school district, and there would be no more border disputes. Kind of like what Port Arthur and Fort William, Ontario did in 1970 to create the city of Thunder Bay. Maybe as an incentive for merging, Fargo would let (formerly) West Fargo be local tax-free for 5 years, or something like that. If done tomorrow, it would create a city of around 125,000 people. Maybe that's something we should be thinking about in the future. I know for a fact that urban growth would be better managed with one "supercity", and it would be a lot easier to deal with local taxes and school funding.

Call it a crazy idea, but I really think this could work.

That makes sense, and if there's one thing that government at any level has a hard time achieving, it's making sense.


I believe that WF is the only local community that does not want to be part of the metro dispatch center.




On a more positive note, did anyone else see that Hector International Airport had a record number of boardings last month, and a record three-month boarding?

Good news, and it should only get better once Delta starts service.

[roper]

FYI It's the developer that is responsible for you having the special assessments. In most of the country the developer is required to pay these up front and include them in the cost of the lot. In the late 70's and early 80's the city got a lot of property back because the developers couldn't pay the specials. That's when they were forced to carrying them. Right now all a developer has to do is buy some land and plat it out. They don't carry much risk anymore.


I didn't know the history as to why the city is in charge of specials. *I knew that most other areas the developer provided that service and included the cost in the price of the lot. *Lots has changed since the early 80's and IMO the city isn't doing a good job controlling the cost of specials. *I'd like to see Fargo allow a few small develpments to have the developers privately bid out the streets, sewer, lights, curbs... it would be interested to see if it is any cheaper or not. *The city keeps saying that nobody can do it cheaper, I'd just like proff.

On the other hand I understand that the current developers, especially the larger ones like the set up know. *I couldn't begin to estimate the cost of an Eagel Run or Osgood. *Big $$$

[broke_back_mnt]

The answer to the school district boundry problems is easy. *The Fargo and West Fargo school districts should merge into one large metropolitan school district. *It will never happen though because if it was merged, there would only be one school board. *So half the board members would be out, and we know that based on that fact alone, it would never pass.
There is no Fargo/West Fargo School boundry problem. *The school districts are seperate and distinct. *West Fargo collects its school taxes from the West Fargo School District. *The Fargo School District collects its taxes from their district.

Its true the west acres area is in the West Fargo School District, but it is also in the city of Fargo. *The City of Fargo collects a whole bunch of money from the West acres area in Real Estate taxes. *The city of West Fargo gets nothing. *

[MplsBison]

The answer to the school district boundry problems is easy. The Fargo and West Fargo school districts should merge into one large metropolitan school district. It will never happen though because if it was merged, there would only be one school board. So half the board members would be out, and we know that based on that fact alone, it would never pass.
There is no Fargo/West Fargo School boundry problem. The school districts are seperate and distinct. West Fargo collects its school taxes from the West Fargo School District. The Fargo School District collects its taxes from their district.

Its true the west acres area is in the West Fargo School District, but it is also in the city of Fargo. The City of Fargo collects a whole bunch of money from the West acres area in Real Estate taxes. The city of West Fargo gets nothing.






But the city of Fargo can't spend any of that money on schools, correct?


Basically, the only reason that the FSD would want to merge with the WFSD is to get their hands on the West Acres money. They know it, everyone knows it.

It wouldn't be a pretty PR campaign.

[TheBisonator]

I was thinking recently about several specific places that don't exist in Fargo, but they absloutely should, because most other cities of Fargo's size in the region have them:

1. Panera Bread
2. Jimmy John's
3. Dunn Bros. Coffee
4. CHIPOTLE!!!!
5. Breugger's Bagels

You would think with all the strip malls being built here that ONE of these should eventually be built, right??

[broke_back_mnt]

There are at least 4 real estate taxing authorities:

1) *The city
2) *The School District
3) *The County
4) *The township

Each has its own boundries and each is autonomous. *You may pay taxes to any or all. *The last land Fargo annexed was actually in the West Fargo School District. *West Fargo School District will continue to collect school taxes. *Fargo will now collect city real estate taxes. *West Fargo City gets nothing. *Thats why the people resisted, they didnt want to pay taxes to the city of Fargo.

To answer your question MplsBison, I think the city of Fargo can spend their money on anything they want that advances the city. *If they want to help the schools so be it, but why should they? *The schools collect their own taxes, district by district, not city by city.

[roper]

There are at least 4 real estate taxing authorities:

1) *The city
2) *The School District
3) *The County
4) *The township

Each has its own boundries and each is autonomous. *You may pay taxes to any or all. *The last land Fargo annexed was actually in the West Fargo School District. *West Fargo School District will continue to collect school taxes. *Fargo will now collect city real estate taxes. *West Fargo City gets nothing. *Thats why the people resisted, they didnt want to pay taxes to the city of Fargo.

JBB-

Are you talking about the land anexed on the W side of I29 and 52nd ave south? *If so that is clearly in the boundries of the Fargo Public Schools. *If you addressing another area I'm sorry for wasting bandwith.

[TheBisonator]

I went to the new Osgood Hornbacher's today - That place is BIG (from the inside, at least). As far as I know, there are 7 businesses at the Shoppes at Osgood that either are there or will soon be there: Hornbacher's, a post office, Extreme Pita, Caribou Coffee, the offices of Property Resources Group, Jaz Hair Salon and Gate City Bank. I think Alerus Financial is also building at a pad site at that development.

Also, I noticed a humongous pile of dirt and orange construction fence in front of Lowe's. Is that where they're building the new Texas Roadhouse??

[NanoBison]

I believe so. That will be some good BBQ. 8-)

[TheBisonator]

Hey NanoBison, check the SSP Forum. ;)

Also check your PM. ;)

[NanoBison]

Gotcha Big Dog!

[Bisonguy]

Looks llke there could be a new development going up at 19th and University, if it gets approval:

Developer targets 19th Ave. N. (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=125734&section=news)

A developer will approach the Fargo City Commission on Monday to gauge support for a redevelopment project at the northeast corner of 19th Avenue North and University Drive.
Roers Development Inc. of Fargo is asking the city to create a tax-increment financing (TIF) district to help develop the land, kitty-corner from the Fargodome, into an office, commercial and college housing area.

President Jim Roers said his proposed project would boost the combined value of the properties from $854,900 to more than $14 million.

In a letter to commissioners, Roers said his company has options to buy seven privately owned properties, totaling 2.74 acres, for the project.............

As long as there's a Stop-N-Go still there when it's done, I'm all for it.

[TheBisonator]

I saw on KVLY news that some Las Vegas developers want to build another huge development, this time on the corner of 52nd Ave. south and I-29, where the SuperTarget is supposed to be.

Here's a recap of what was said:

http://www.kvlytv11.com/artman/publish/article_201.shtml

[Bison_Dan]

I saw on KVLY news that some Las Vegas developers want to build another huge development, this time on the corner of 52nd Ave. south and I-29, where the SuperTarget is supposed to be.

Here's a recap of what was said:

http://www.kvlytv11.com/artman/publish/article_201.shtml

I hope they do it. It sounds cool. ;D ;D

[bisonaudit]

Kiplingers magazine best places to live listed Fargo at #23 in the nation.

Minneapolis/St. Paul #2
Bismarck #29

And a strong showing for the Upper-Mid west in general.
Others in the top 50

St. Cloud. MN
Rochester, MN
La Crosse, WI
Madison, WI
Sioux Falls, SD
Iowa City, IA

[TheBisonator]

Kiplingers magazine best places to live listed Fargo at #23 in the nation.

Minneapolis/St. Paul #2
Bismarck #29

And a strong showing for the Upper-Mid west in general.
Others in the top 50

St. Cloud. MN
Rochester, MN
La Crosse, WI
Madison, WI
Sioux Falls, SD
Iowa City, IA

The Upper Midwest is the best region in the country, IMO.

[MplsBison]

What were the criteria? Crime rate? Employment rate?

[bisonaudit]

cost of living
cost of housing
crime rate
education
recreation/entertainment variety
weather

amongst others.

http://www.kiplinger.com/personalfinance/

[TheBisonator]

More information now out on the new 'Town Center" retail shops. Tenants will include a Starbucks, Extreme Pita, a new Blockbuster Video, and other yet-to-be-determined franchises.

http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/20060511eastel.jpg
This drawing shows the east elevation of The Shops at Town Center. The two retail buildings will be located at 13th Avenue and 25th Street South in Fargo. Special to The Forum

Info at: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=126378&section=Business

[lakesbison]

Is this the development that the GRAND FORKS businesman put up??

Funny how they have to invest in fargo to diversify... err. .I mean.. actually make a profit by being in our fine town.... Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM

[bisonaudit]

Forbes list of best cities from business and career growth.

Fargo is #2 on the Smaller Metro list.
Half of the to #10 on the Smaller Metro list are in ND, SD, or MN.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/5/Rank_1.html?partner=yahoo

[TheBisonator]

I was just driving down 13th Ave by West Acres, and I noticed a sign that said Burlington Coat Factory will open soon in the building previously occupied by the Noridian offices (the old K-Mart). I've heard people say that it's a low-end trashy chain, but I've been to a couple of them in the Twin Cities area, and the interiors looked really nice and clean, even in better shape than I've seen some department stores. I'll have to wait till this one opens up so I can see if it'll be as decent-looking as the other ones I've been to.

[NanoBison]

Ok, I just read in the Forum about how Fargo is no longer a population magnet and we actually lost people "according to the Census Bureau". Does anyone else, seem to think those numbers might not quite be correct? I look at all of the Construction, all of the new developments, and all of the new houses going up. How can we possibly be losing people overall?

I would guesstimate, that the entire metro area is continuing to grow at a feverous pace (Cass and Clay counties, I won't bother adding Richland or Wilkin counties - Whapeton,Breckenridge).

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=127035&section=News :o


*** Updated : I just went and checked the census data for myself using this data set available here :

http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/files/CO-EST2005-ALLDATA.csv (County Estimates for 2005)

According to that, we gained 10490 people in the Fargo-Moorhead metro (that's 2098/year moving in)...

I do agree with one point in the article. We need to get even more jobs in the metro, higher paying as well.

[TheBisonator]

Yeah, what the article said was that in-migration from within the country has declined, but the rate of growth is still positive. I think almost everyone from the surrounding rural areas who had a predisposition to move to Fargo have already done so. The article also indicates an increase in international migration to the area. I liked the parts of the article that had the business leaders talking about plans to attract people from other states. I think with the expansion of the nanotech and biotech industries here, I see a good shot of that happening. In any case, Cass County's population grew by almost 8,000 from 2000 to 2004 according to the Census, and you know the Census always undercounts almost everything.

[insane_ponderer]

If you build it, they will come...(the biotech sector that is) :)

[MplsBison]

Having a nationally ranked research university must help.

[NanoBison]

Keep reading about the annexation issues arising between Fargo and Horace in the Forum. I will give Horace a nod by saying that they did in fact follow proper procedure when annexing land, but to annex 3,000 acres of land to prevent Fargo from annexing it in the future is ridiculous. The annexation would more than double the size of the city (image if Fargo were to annex enough land in one year to double its size...). The city itself can't support the onslaught of new people moving into the area and also lacks proper sewage and water treatment facilities. In fact they just dump it and it ends up in the Red River, before it gets to our water treatment center. These land arguements are really starting to irritate me.

Point 1: No matter how much you hate Fargo, it is the prominent city in the Metropolitan Area.
It's where all the jobs are. Almost 20,000 people drive into the city everyday to work and then drive back to their homes. The city is experiencing phenomal growth and WILL continue to do so into the foreseeable future. Fargo has the infrastructure to support new developments, even large developments like the Brandt addition and the Las Vegas Developers Addition at 52nd and I29. Horace and other "towns" do not.

Point 2: You shouldn't be potentially limiting Fargo's or West Fargo's growth in the future, just becuase you feel "people don't want to get gobbled up". If you didn't want to get gobbled up by either Fargo or West Fargo, you should have moved a MINIMUM of at least 15-20 miles outside of town. You cannot expect to live on the edge of the city and benefit from it without paying what others living in the city already do. West Fargo should keep in mind as well, that they aren't going to surpass Fargo as the core city, so it is pointless to completely block development to the west, especially if West Fargo can't get outside of their dike they built. (Maybe Fargo can annex all that land west of the dike and take advantage of the protection it offers for free since West Fargo paid for it (small retribution for school funds from West Acres area...)). At that point, West Fargo could change its name and become an inner city of Fargo.

Point 3: The cities need to work together. Enough of this bull**** already.
When they were forming the Metropolitan Area Emergency Response Call Center, West Fargo bowed out of the project stating that they weren't getting their monies worth. (Yet the keep raking in the dough from the largest retail area in the state/region). The former Horace mayor Don Goerger stated “We feel if Fargo wants to grow, Interstate 29 goes all the way to the South Dakota border. Have at it." Everybody knows (it's been mentioned MANY times in these arguements) that the longer a city gets, the harder and more costly it is to provide services and maintain infrastructure. Smart growth of a city is in a circular fashion. Of course, with that kind of thinking in Horace, I can see why they are unprepaired for growth. The smartest thing to do, would probably come up with combined metro services. Everyone gets water, streets, and garbage.... from one source, the MetroGov.

I know Fargo has its downfalls with high property taxes and assesments, but for crying out loud, if we let these little towns block us in, then the only options people are going to have a decade or so down the road for development, is living in a rural town that can't possibly handle the growth in terms of infrastructure.

We do desperately need to come up with a METRO-wide plan of growth, including our neighbors across the river, so we can identify needs and issues and try to resolve them, instead of doing the land grabs and going into court/mediation every year. It needs to be done soon too, since Fargo and West Fargo and Moorhead are approaching Horace, Harwood, Reiles Acres, Briarwood, Dilworth, etc. The effort should also include cities close to the FM area but still have years to go before we get near them such as, Mapleton, Oxbow, Glyndon, Sabin, ...etc).

[MplsBison]

How about this compromise:

the people living in the Horace area that would be annexed into Fargo won't have to pay the higher tax rate.

[IowaBison]

West Fargo bowed out of the project stating that they weren't getting their monies worth. (Yet the keep raking in the dough from the largest retail area in the state/region).

The City of West Fargo does not receive taxes from West Acres, the West Fargo School District does.

[broke_back_mnt]

That is correct. *

The city of Fargo annexed the west acres area which had been part of the West Fargo School district forever. *If there is a problem with the tax split its clear its first come first serve and the City of West Fargo should get the West acres area so they can keep their boarders and the schoold district boarders the same. *In fact, West Acres was Fargos first land grab of the modern era. *

Now they are out there trying desperately to get around Horace and West Fargo so they can expand West. *As the Fargo city boundry changes and takes in lands in other school districts, mainly the West Fargo school district which includes Horace, are the people of Fargo going to insist that they get those school taxes too?

Ps. *there is no flood protection west of the floodway/dike.

[insane_ponderer]

I agree with ya nano...I have never understood the whole west fargo/fargo battle for domination, whats the deal there anyways, is it just a pissing match that got out of hand or what?

Everything points to the idea that it would be beneficial for everyone if they would work together.

[broke_back_mnt]

If its going to be a cooperative effort you better include the county too because they have the rural water system in place. Fargo moved to annex without much fanfare or input (cooperation). The few people that own the land that Horace annexed dont want to be citizens of Fargo. They had their choice and picked Horace. These people may not be in favor of huge developments with the Las Vegas people etc etc. in the fashion of Fargo. Let Fargo grow in a controlled and legal manner.

[IowaBison]

They had their choice and picked Horace.

That's not really true, JBB.

They never lived in Horace, despite what their mail said.

A city can't take over another city (at least not without permission).

[NanoBison]

If its going to be a cooperative effort you better include the county too because they have the rural water system in place. Fargo moved to annex without much fanfare or input (cooperation). The few people that own the land that Horace annexed dont want to be citizens of Fargo. They had their choice and picked Horace. These people may not be in favor of huge developments with the Las Vegas people etc etc. in the fashion of Fargo. Let Fargo grow in a controlled and legal manner.


Since when it has it not been? Other than mediation between bickering, I think they have gone about it wisely. If you look at the Annexation map for this year, http://www.ci.fargo.nd.us/Engineering/images/annex/Amap.pdf , you'll see the land in Fargo is already being developed or on the drawing board for the next 1-5 years. Horace however said it doesn't even plan on developing that land unless people want to develop on it. They don't even have anything close to the infrastructure required to do that. It's just a move to block Fargo, plain and simple.

If we're totally blocked in, Fargo's going to have no choice but to build upwards (that's fine by me... we could use a better skyline). But it will result in higher population densities and more traffic and everything each people usually like to whine about.

My next prediction on Annexation arguements is Rieles Acres. We're less than 1/2 mile from them now, according to that annex map I posted the address for. Hopefully that will go smoother than the West-Fargo/Fargo and Horace/Fargo issues have. I just noticed we're now witin 1 mile of Harwood as well to the north.

[NanoBison]

West Fargo bowed out of the project stating that they weren't getting their monies worth. (Yet the keep raking in the dough from the largest retail area in the state/region).

The City of West Fargo does not receive taxes from West Acres, the West Fargo School District does.




That's what I meant, sorry should have been clearer.

[broke_back_mnt]

The landowners in the Horace annexation voted for Horace. *They have a Horace zip code. *Fargo has no manifest destiny on any of the un-incorporated lands in the county. *Westward growth is open to Horace, Mapelton, West Fargo (which incidentally absorbed Riverside about 10 yrs ago) and some other smaller settlements. *The dominate government on the westward growth may not be Fargo. *The future of the Red River Valley may be West Fargo.

As far as controlled and legal most of the recent annexation has occurred in the courts because of Fargo's habit of trying to roll over everything in their way.

Dont get me wrong, Im not anti Fargo but they are trying to annex and develop productive farm lands being run by some pretty good business men that are living a different way of life. None the less, everything East of the Shyenne Floodway is going to be developed.

West Fargo is trying to maintain control over areas that have been traditionally in their school district and in their area of support. You wont find anybody that lives up and down the Shyenne River Valley or west of it that will say they are from Fargo. Same for Horace.

Fargo is sensible in their effort to incorporate all growth into their boarder but they are now learning they arent going to grow indiscriminately.

[tony]

I don't think West Fargo would be an engine for much of anything if Fargo hadn't spilled its boundaries and started filling up their city limits :)

I'm not trying to say there is anything intrinsically good about Fargo, but I have never really understood suburbs... if towns grow into each other, I kinda think it makes sense for them to combine. I mean, there is only one infrastructure and it doesn't make sense (at least to me) to duplicate fire, police, city administrators, etc without a sound rationale for doing so besides "Fargo is big and mean."

Ask yourself this, "What is the downside of having West Fargo and Fargo (or whoever) combine into one new city?" If the answer is, "Because our taxes would go up in West Fargo," then the next question is, "Why would your taxes be going up?" I'm guessing that if combining the two towns makes somebody's taxes going up, it's because people in the one town are subsidizing services consumed by people in the other town (I'm discounting the fact that being close to a larger metro area increases WF property taxes by making houses there worth significantly more than they otherwise would).

Hehe... West Germany and East Germany could combine, but the idea of West Fargo and Fargo combining seems impossible to most peopl? As for Horace... meh. The only reason a house there or anywhere is worth anything is because it is next to a metro area - yet the folks there act like the very engine responsible for most of their net worth is some evil entity bent on their destruction (in the form of city water).

Of course, I'm yapping about this because I know next to nothing about the issue and hope to get a free education on it. It just strikes me that the only principle at stake here is that people want their taxes low by making other people pay for services they benefit from. Anyway, it seems like city limits are a county or state issue, not one that only takes into consideration the self-interest of property owners in the affected area. (I will now duck as I'm sure I'll be getting ripped a new one over this).

[broke_back_mnt]

Thats a good point Tony. *Ask this question. *Why would an Agricultural producer that owns hundreds of open acres and receives no services from Fargo want to pay an extra tax to Fargo on each and every acre? *Its a threat to their business. *Its this type of tax pressure that forces them out. *As a result Minnesota has Green Acre laws that differ taxes to the ag. operation when the value of the land is rising due to development pressure.

The owners of the land annexed by Horace probably have never met any of the Fargo City Council members or the Mayor at least until this started. *On the other hand its a good bet most of them know all of the City Council members and the Mayor of Horace by first name.

When cities collide each has its infrastructure already in place. *Roads are self explanitory each road authority takes care of their own. *Water and sewer systems are a little different. *Unless there is some economy of scale to combining existing operating systems it makes little sense. *Exisiting systems like sewer and water should be allowd to grow to capacity before any new cooperative systems are built. *

[Bisonguy]

From The Forum today, there will be another Applebee's opening at 2100 16th St. N. by the end of the year.

Nice to see some new restaurants opening near the new hotels that have gone up.

[TheBisonator]

From The Forum today, there will be another Applebee's opening at 2100 16th St. N. by the end of the year.

Nice to see some new restaurants opening near the new hotels that have gone up.

Hey, you revived my thread!! :D

That new Applebee's will be in front of the Airport Hilton behind the Taco Bell on 19th.

[bisonranch]

From The Forum today, there will be another Applebee's opening at 2100 16th St. N. by the end of the year.

Nice to see some new restaurants opening near the new hotels that have gone up.

Hey, you revived my thread!! :D

That new Applebee's will be in front of the Airport Hilton behind the Taco Bell on 19th.


Airport Hilton. Are you refering to an existing joint or is there another new one on the way?

[Bisonguy]

The "something-something" Suites by Hilton opened up this summer, shortly after the Candlewood Suites opened right next to the Fargodome.

Now, we get to see more development in the area, including a new Applebee's by year's end.



In other assorted development rumors, I overheard that the 19th ave. Stop-N-Go is looking at buildiing a new store, even if the Rohr's Development does not go through.

[SDbison]

The "something-something" Suites by Hilton opened up this summer, shortly after the Candlewood Suites opened right next to the Fargodome.

Now, we get to see more development in the area, including a new Applebee's by year's end.



In other assorted development rumors, I overheard that the 19th ave. Stop-N-Go is looking at buildiing a new store, even if the Rohr's Development does not go through.
That would be the "Homewood" Suites (a Hilton property) Bisonguy. I plan to stay there following this Thursday's football game.

[Bisonguy]

The "something-something" Suites by Hilton opened up this summer, shortly after the Candlewood Suites opened right next to the Fargodome.

Now, we get to see more development in the area, including a new Applebee's by year's end.



In other assorted development rumors, I overheard that the 19th ave. Stop-N-Go is looking at buildiing a new store, even if the Rohr's Development does not go through.
That would be the "Homewood" Suites (a Hilton property) Bisonguy. *I plan to stay there following this Thursday's football game. * *

Thanks, I should have remembered that, seeing as how I've driven past it about a thousand times. ::)

[wfhockeyplayer15]

we need to keep up with whats going on in the city everybody should keep posting

[sambini]

Another Applebees will work out fine up there. Not enough good places on the northside to eat.

[Herd_Mentality]

Moe's Southwest Grill is now open at the intersection of 25th ST and 32nd Ave South. A lot like Qdoba.