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View Full Version : A New Face Joins the Herd



IowaBison
06-28-2006, 01:50 PM
Anybody heard anything about this?


http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=308353

mikelsch
06-28-2006, 06:50 PM
New LOGO will be unveiled on July 11 ----- a fiercer-looking Bison

sambini
06-28-2006, 07:31 PM
YES+++++++=

BisonMav
06-28-2006, 09:51 PM
New LOGO will be unveiled on July 11 ----- a fiercer-looking Bison

Just hope it's not like the mascot that looked like a moose without antlers. :) ;)

MplsBison
06-28-2006, 10:07 PM
New logo for uniforms or for merchandise?

roadwarrior
06-28-2006, 10:30 PM
Since the intro is at Scheels, *I would guess for merchandise.

kchats
06-29-2006, 04:26 AM
When is NDSU going to start allowing Steve & Barry's to sell their apparel? They sell almost all division I schools apparel and it is very reasonably priced. Those of us that don't make it to Fargo very often live with online ordering through the Varsity Mart.

tcbison
07-03-2006, 06:04 PM
When is NDSU going to start allowing Steve & Barry's to sell their apparel? *They sell almost all division I schools apparel and it is very reasonably priced. *Those of us that don't make it to Fargo very often live with online ordering through the Varsity Mart.

Good question. I did buy a NDSU t-shirt there once but it was the old logo. I think they could get some good sales if they start selling more Bison stuff.

roadwarrior
07-03-2006, 10:37 PM
Isnt anyone free to sell NDSU merchandise as long as they pay the royalty fee on the sales ? There must be some kind of royalty agreement that needs to be signed by those companies producing or selling the merchandise. Just guessing because I dont know the answer.

kchats
07-04-2006, 04:48 AM
I have heard that NDSU apparel is available nationwide, however the stores will probably not have it if there hasn't been a demand for it. The way I understand it a Bison fan will be more likely to find Bison apparel in Minnesota, South Dakota, Wisconsin etc than down here in Kansas. Maybe with the Bison getting into the Mid Con that will change as well. Steve & Barry's doesn't list which universities stuff they sell. They don't sell online and they don't ship between stores. That is too bad because they sell NCAA stuff very cheap.

kchats
07-04-2006, 04:02 PM
Last time NDSU modified the Bison they notified the public and alumni about it very early in the process. This time it sounds like they may have made modifications without telling anyone and will just reveal it on July 11. Could they be changing the football helmets? Maybe they will go with just a N on the side of the helmet much like Nebraska since N is for Nowledge. ::)

roadwarrior
07-04-2006, 06:43 PM
The new face is just an additional logo from what I understand. The others will still be around. Think of it as a "close-up" shot of the Bison face.

mebison
07-04-2006, 06:54 PM
Isnt anyone free to sell NDSU merchandise as long as they pay the royalty fee on the sales ? *There must be some kind of royalty agreement that needs to be signed by those companies producing or selling the merchandise. *Just guessing because I dont know the answer.


I believe there's some complexities to that whole process. I know organizations I was with at NDSU occasionally wanted to get shirts printed and the printing places wouldn't touch the name NDSU or the logos. There was one place that was officially sanctioned to print the NDSU logo (I don't remember which place), and the rest said they couldn't print anything and that we didn't need to bother trying to get permission for them to print it either.

TheDoctor
07-04-2006, 10:44 PM
I wouldn't panic either. There was going to be a "new face" of the Red Hawks this year. People I was talking too thought they'd hvae to throw out all of their old clothes. Turned out it was just another mascot, Scarlett, Hawkeye's sister. Maybe their will be "Thundette". ;D ;D ;D

RedRiver
07-11-2006, 01:10 PM
Press Conference at 2:00 PM today at the new Scheels to unveil another Bison logo. This will be a secondary logo that will be used on the road football jerseys. Does not replace any other logo is just an additional logo.

mikelsch
07-11-2006, 04:29 PM
Listening to WDAY this morning...
- New logo will also be on some of the other NDSU jerseys besides road football; and will be on other Bison fan apparel at Scheels and the Varsity Mart starting today.
- Created by CI apparel which recently has helped Northern Iowa and MSU-Mankato with their new logos

I hope this new logo isn't hostile or abusive :D

Sticks
07-11-2006, 06:48 PM
I hope this new logo isn't hostile or abusive *:D
Boy, you guys are gonna ride that pony till it pukes huh? Kinda like the Wisconsin game.... :P

NDSUguy
07-11-2006, 07:22 PM
Does anyone else think that the new logo looks a little too much like the Buffalo Sabres logo? I'm not impressed!
http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=344257

TheBisonator
07-11-2006, 08:45 PM
http://www.gobison.com//pics16/400/NA/NAPHAAEONNYSXME.20060711144240.jpg

I like it, but I don't love it. I think it's one that kind of grows on you.

TransAmBison
07-11-2006, 08:55 PM
I like it. I think I like this better than when they made the change to the current regular logo from the old one with the NDSU tatooed on the hip. I loved that logo.

IowaBison
07-11-2006, 09:03 PM
I like it. I think I like this better than when they made the change to the current regular logo from the old one with the NDSU tatooed on the hip. I loved that logo.


i think you meant branded on the hip

tophatfan
07-11-2006, 09:23 PM
it looks alright to me but i think that it would look better on something other than a yellow backgrund, like the green pants for the road jerseys.

BisonMav
07-11-2006, 09:41 PM
What school does it represent? Would like to see a NDSU somewhere on the large versions.

TransAmBison
07-11-2006, 09:45 PM
I like it. *I think I like this better than when they made the change to the current regular logo from the old one with the NDSU tatooed on the hip. *I loved that logo.


i think you meant branded on the hip
I wasn't there when they placed the logo on the hip, so I don't know what means they used...I'll take your word on it, though.

Bisonfan1
07-11-2006, 09:47 PM
I think your right Bisonator, it will have to grow on you. I did'nt like the new Bison back in 99, but after awhile came to like it. I did notice sitting in nosebleed in the dome, it was harder to see the current Bison on the helmets than the old ones it replaced. If this logo ever does replace the primary, more color in the body, especially on the helmets would help make stand out better . If a body was ever added.

DORMIE
07-11-2006, 10:11 PM
I was at Scheels today for the logo announcement. They also had the new road football uniform. It is awsome. Green numbers with yellow trim. Yellow wide stripe down from under the armpit. A lot of yellow to offset the green numbers. They are going to put that face logo on the hip of the pants. The helmet will have crossed US and ND flags on the back left. All in all, I was pretty impressed with the uniform. I was at Northwestern last fall for the first game with last years uniform. Pretty embarassing. Oh yes, the pants are still green.

NanoBison
07-11-2006, 10:12 PM
I'm actually happy with this one. It's more of a mascot than the previous one. I'm pretty sure that the background color is changable.

broke_back_mnt
07-11-2006, 10:15 PM
I hope this new logo isn't hostile or abusive *:D
Boy, you guys are gonna ride that pony till it pukes huh? *Kinda like the Wisconsin game.... :P

Its an issue with the NCAA, not something to be ridiculed or made light of! :o *

The last Native American tie in officially at least, that I can find for NDSU is 1929! *I think Und had declared themselves the Fighting S___x by then as a cheap publicity stunt. *An attempt to trump the change from Agies to BISON in 1923 or 1924.

The new face is a great idea. *The more offerings we have with logos, colors, styles etc. the more we will sell. *I have an original Pete Lana BISON Logo Hat. *It should be reissued along with all the other great designs and the new one should be out front in MHO. *I think thats the reason grocery stores are so big. *Selection is the key.

NanoBison
07-11-2006, 10:16 PM
I hope this new logo isn't hostile or abusive :D
Boy, you guys are gonna ride that pony till it pukes huh? Kinda like the Wisconsin game.... :P


Not only until the pony pukes, but keels over and dies. Then we'll find another pony. I've already got plenty lined up... their names are :

Coattails
NotAChanceInHell
and
IndefiniteIndependent

;D

Swaghook
07-11-2006, 11:05 PM
I think they could add the look of a bull bison snorting mad. They got the mean look but it's missing the steam from the nostrils for full effect.

This one ain't bad . Not quite right but not bad.

http://www.nucmed.buffalo.edu/ed/snort1.gif

Scooter
07-12-2006, 12:18 AM
The logo is OK. *The problem isn't the logo, it's that god awful yellow. *Get rid of yellow completely and make the colors Green and Gold. *Not yellow gold, either but the gold that is on the St Louis Rams uniforms. *Forest green and gold would look sharp. *Change the school colors to green and gold and the stuff will fly off the shelves. Just don't make the football jerseys as boring and generic as Cal Poly's. Those guys have no imagination at all.

*

kchats
07-12-2006, 03:03 AM
Colorado State and Cal Poly are Green and Gold. I think the Gold is a poor color that doesn't stand out. Yellow is bright and stands out in the stands and in the crowd. The only other color that stands out as easily is red in the stands.

I like NDSU's school colors and think the new logo is OK. I agree with the comments that it should say NDSU and/or Bison somewhere near it when used separately.

The Rams uniforms have become very boring with that blah gold they now have. When I see highlights of the Superbowl they won in the Blue and Yellow I really miss that yellow ram horn.

TheBisonator
07-12-2006, 03:47 AM
The logo is OK. *The problem isn't the logo, it's that god awful yellow. *Get rid of yellow completely and make the colors Green and Gold. *Not yellow gold, either but the gold that is on the St Louis Rams uniforms. *Forest green and gold would look sharp. *Change the school colors to green and gold and the stuff will fly off the shelves. *Just don't make the football jerseys as boring and generic as Cal Poly's. *Those guys have no imagination at all.

*

Dark green and goldenrod yellow are the colors of champions, my friend.

Edmonton Eskimos - 13 Grey Cup titles
Green Bay Packers - 3 Super Bowl victories (9 other NFL championships)
NDSU Bison - 5 DII national football championships, 3 small college national football championships

I wouldn't want it any other way.

sambini
07-12-2006, 04:20 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++

sway1331
07-12-2006, 05:59 AM
http://www.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/200607120712jersey.jpg

New road uniforms. Is it just the photo or does the yellow/gold look more gold and less yellow?

NDFAN2
07-12-2006, 01:28 PM
I like both the new "stare down" bison logo, and the new road uniforms. *It will be a good change for the team, and the fans.

I still like the bison logo like the one Phil Hanson wore on his helmet.

The_Sicatoka
07-12-2006, 01:37 PM
Someone said it looks that new logo looks like Buffalo of the NHL.

I say it's more like U of Manitoba (and I'd say it looks more like a "Dr. Jeckyl" version to U of Manitoba's "Mr. Hyde").

Scooter
07-12-2006, 02:26 PM
m_oslund, thanks for the pic. I like the road uniforms. I can live with that color of yellow. But, I stand by my assessment of bright yellow. The bright yellow clothing that NDSU is trying to sell simply sucks ass in the marketability department.

markerman
07-12-2006, 02:29 PM
If you look at the primary logo and imagine it rotated 90 degrees so that you are looking theBison in the face, you essentially get this logo. *I'll admit that it didn't jump out at me when I saw it at first (if there's one thing I don't like it's the amount of underchin fur), but it's growing on me. *Just as I suspected this is a "niche" logo to be used for applications that the old logo wasn't suited for (i.e. embroidery and/or when the desired logo is small). *There is just so much detail in the primary logo that sometimes it was very tough to distinguish the facial features. *

I agree that "NDSU" or "Bison" or "Herd" needs to be included with many applications of this logo. *Anyone see any of the new apparell at Scheels? *Does that merchandise include these things?

NDSUguy
07-12-2006, 02:36 PM
I don't quite understand why the yellow that NDSU has chosen for it's merchandise is a bad color... I think that it serves several purposes. If you look around sports in general you will find that MOST of the teams with a yellow or gold in their uni or school logo will have that exact same color on their merchandise. Some examples:

1. Packers (yellow)
2. Gophers (gold)
3. Michigan Wolverines (maize)
4. LA Lakers (gold)

I am sure that there are countless more teams that (at least on their merchandise) use the same yellow hue that NDSU uses... As much as I love the gold color on the flags, uni's, ect golds just not marketable.

mikelsch
07-12-2006, 03:22 PM
If you look at the primary logo and imagine it rotated 90 degrees so that you are looking theBison in the face, you essentially get this logo. *I'll admit that it didn't jump out at me when I saw it at first (if there's one thing I don't like it's the amount of underchin fur), but it's growing on me. *Just as I suspected this is a "niche" logo to be used for applications that the old logo wasn't suited for (i.e. embroidery and/or when the desired logo is small). *There is just so much detail in the primary logo that sometimes it was very tough to distinguish the facial features. *

I agree that "NDSU" or "Bison" or "Herd" needs to be included with many applications of this logo. *Anyone see any of the new apparell at Scheels? *Does that merchandise include these things?

There is new merchandise at Scheels (and the V Mart) with the new logo.

The road football unis look even better in person, epecially when put together with the pants. *The pants are green with a yellow tapered stripe on the side, a swoosh on one pant leg, and the new bison logo on the other if I remember correctly. *When the current home jerseys are worn-out in a couple years, the plan is to get matching Nike jerseys. *As from the forum article today - the plan is to eventually convert all NDSU sports' jerseys to Nike. *Recruits love the swoosh.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=132783
http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=132784&section=sports

"The new uniforms were only one-third of the price of last year’s road uniforms because NDSU entered into an agreement with Nike. Taylor said NDSU will receive $15,000 plus discounts for future uniforms and equipment. It’s the first time NDSU has received a cash stipend from a major company."

"Taylor said the Bison players prefer Nike products. The men’s and women’s basketball programs are already wearing Nike. Taylor said he expects the volleyball and wrestling teams to stay with Asics. But as new uniforms are needed and the price is right, he said, the school may slowly gear itself toward an all-Nike deal."

NDSUguy
07-12-2006, 04:32 PM
I agree. I would never want to put the new logo on anything yellow or gold BUT with a green background it really stands out and looks great! ;D ;D ;D

mercenarybison
07-12-2006, 07:37 PM
Still not crazy about the stripe up the side, but at least the numbers are legible now.

bison242424
07-12-2006, 08:01 PM
If you look at the primary logo and imagine it rotated 90 degrees so that you are looking theBison in the face, you essentially get this logo. *I'll admit that it didn't jump out at me when I saw it at first (if there's one thing I don't like it's the amount of underchin fur), but it's growing on me. *Just as I suspected this is a "niche" logo to be used for applications that the old logo wasn't suited for (i.e. embroidery and/or when the desired logo is small). *There is just so much detail in the primary logo that sometimes it was very tough to distinguish the facial features. *
You hit the nail on the head there. It is the primary logo at a different angle with more detail. The jagged buffalo hair is there from that logo and the chin hair is like the primary logo, just with more detail. And why all the comparison with the Buffalo Sabres logo? Hello, they are both "buffalo". They both got horns, snouts, etc. Total shocker there. I think this logo is sharp and better than the primary.

http://www.dataportarchives.com/images/ndsu1.jpg http://www.dataportarchives.com/images/ndsu2.jpg http://www.dataportarchives.com/images/ndsu3.jpg


I agree that "NDSU" or "Bison" or "Herd" needs to be included with many applications of this logo. *Anyone see any of the new apparell at Scheels? *Does that merchandise include these things?
Don't agree with y'all there, either. Why does it need that? I seriously doubt it will be used all by itself too much, except on the uniforms. So, NDSU or Bison will be with it for the most part. I think people are smart enough to figure it is the NDSU Bison logo without having a lable. :-?

BisonMav
07-12-2006, 08:11 PM
I don't quite understand why the yellow that NDSU has chosen for it's merchandise is a bad color... *I think that it serves several purposes. *If you look around sports in general you will find that MOST of the teams with a yellow or gold in their uni or school logo will have that exact same color on their merchandise. *Some examples:

1. *Packers (yellow)
2. *Gophers (gold)
3. *Michigan Wolverines (maize)
4. *LA Lakers (gold)

I am sure that there are countless more teams that (at least on their merchandise) use the same yellow hue that NDSU uses... *As much as I love the gold color on the flags, uni's, ect golds just not marketable.

Packers colors are Green and Gold.

IowaBison
07-12-2006, 08:14 PM
If you look at the primary logo and imagine it rotated 90 degrees so that you are looking theBison in the face, you essentially get this logo. I'll admit that it didn't jump out at me when I saw it at first (if there's one thing I don't like it's the amount of underchin fur), but it's growing on me. Just as I suspected this is a "niche" logo to be used for applications that the old logo wasn't suited for (i.e. embroidery and/or when the desired logo is small). There is just so much detail in the primary logo that sometimes it was very tough to distinguish the facial features.
You hit the nail on the head there. It is the primary logo at a different angle with more detail. The jagged buffalo hair is there from that logo and the chin hair is like the primary logo, just with more detail. And why all the comparison with the Buffalo Sabres logo? Hello, they are both "buffalo". They both got horns, snouts, etc. Total shocker there. I think this logo is sharp and better than the primary.

http://www.dataportarchives.com/images/ndsu1.jpg http://www.dataportarchives.com/images/ndsu2.jpg http://www.dataportarchives.com/images/ndsu3.jpg


I agree that "NDSU" or "Bison" or "Herd" needs to be included with many applications of this logo. Anyone see any of the new apparell at Scheels? Does that merchandise include these things?
Don't agree with y'all there, either. Why does it need that? I seriously doubt it will be used all by itself too much, except on the uniforms. So, NDSU or Bison will be with it for the most part. I think people are smart enough to figure it is the NDSU Bison logo without having a lable. :-?

I agree with all points.

The logo has grown quickly on me.

NDSUguy
07-12-2006, 08:15 PM
Yellow, Gold, Purple, Blue, whatever. You get the point and the Packers suck regardless of the color they wear.

BisonMav
07-12-2006, 08:18 PM
Yellow, Gold, Purple, Blue, whatever. *You get the point and the Packers suck regardless of the color they wear.

Not bad sucking with 3 SB trophies on you wall :-?

Junior
07-12-2006, 08:32 PM
[quote] author=bisonherd24
You hit the nail on the head there. It is the primary logo at a different angle with more detail. The jagged buffalo hair is there from that logo and the chin hair is like the primary logo, just with more detail. And why all the comparison with the Buffalo Sabres logo? Hello, they are both "buffalo". They both got horns, snouts, etc. Total shocker there. I think this logo is sharp and better than the primary.[quote]

I must point out it is a BISON. *To refer to it as a buffalo or anything else is incorrect.

EDIT. *This sounded mean. *Just meant to be a heads up.

virgfoss
07-12-2006, 08:57 PM
Yellow, Gold, Purple, Blue, whatever. *You get the point and the Packers suck regardless of the color they wear.

Not bad sucking with 3 SB trophies on you wall *:-?


Would have had at least one more without Mr.Overrated.

mikelsch
07-12-2006, 09:01 PM
I'll wager that the new logo will outsell the old ones (merchandise, etc) and eventually become the primary mark of the Bison. Maybe will even replace the old bison on the football helmets. *

I agree that the words 'NDSU' or 'Bison' do not need to accompany this logo - it would be a detraction.

bison242424
07-12-2006, 09:06 PM
author=bisonherd24
You hit the nail on the head there. It is the primary logo at a different angle with more detail. The jagged buffalo hair is there from that logo and the chin hair is like the primary logo, just with more detail. And why all the comparison with the Buffalo Sabres logo? Hello, they are both "buffalo". They both got horns, snouts, etc. Total shocker there. I think this logo is sharp and better than the primary.

I must point out it is a BISON. *To refer to it as a buffalo or anything else is incorrect.

EDIT. *This sounded mean. *Just meant to be a heads up.

Yeah, I thought so. That is one reason why I put it in "quotes". Couldn't decide which term to use. ;)

Junior
07-12-2006, 09:17 PM
Hey, not a prob. *I correct people around here often.

A lot of people don't know there is a difference between bison and buffalo just like there is a difference between lions and tigers. *Buffalo are native to Africa and Asia, bison are native to North America. *I think there used to be 2 or 3 different species of bison. ;)

*

Bisonguy
07-12-2006, 11:53 PM
This new logo is growing on me pretty quickly. The last logo change took me at least three years to even accept it. :o


The thread on AGS seems to show unanimous support for the new logo from others around I-AA.

roadwarrior
07-13-2006, 12:00 AM
Read the comments from around I-AA:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11333

NanoBison
07-13-2006, 07:34 AM
As you can see, the new logo has completely grown on me. I love it. :)

Bisonfan1
07-13-2006, 01:49 PM
I think they could add the look of a bull bison snorting mad. They got the mean look but it's missing the steam from the nostrils for full effect.

This one ain't bad . Not quite right but not bad.

http://www.nucmed.buffalo.edu/ed/snort1.gif
I totally agree that is the missing effect. Anyone good with a computer that can put that in to see what it would have looked like ?

NanoBison
07-13-2006, 05:28 PM
Don't add animation to it. Leave off the cheesy effects. It looks good as it is.

mikelsch
07-13-2006, 06:50 PM
Don't add animation to it. Leave off the cheesy effects. It looks good as it is.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bisonfan1
07-13-2006, 08:07 PM
Don't add animation to it. Leave off the cheesy effects. It looks good as it is.
The Bison snorts from the last 2 Bison are not cheesy effects, to me it is a tradition thing also, and just my personal opinion of course it would make the new Bison look even meaner !! +++++++++++++

TransAmBison
07-13-2006, 08:45 PM
Don't add animation to it. Leave off the cheesy effects. It looks good as it is.
The Bison snorts from the last 2 Bison are not cheesy effects, to me it is a tradition thing also, and just my personal opinion of course it would make the new Bison look even meaner !! +++++++++++++
I agree on the tradition! Right now he just looks pretty stern...I think snorts would up him a level to angry!

tcbison
07-13-2006, 08:56 PM
Don't add animation to it. Leave off the cheesy effects. It looks good as it is.
The Bison snorts from the last 2 Bison are not cheesy effects, to me it is a tradition thing also, and just my personal opinion of course it would make the new Bison look even meaner !! +++++++++++++
I agree on the tradition! *Right now he just looks pretty stern...I think snorts would up him a level to angry!

I like the snorts as well! Go bison!

Swaghook
07-13-2006, 11:40 PM
Don't add animation to it. Leave off the cheesy effects. It looks good as it is.
I wasn't meaning having animation just the look of snorting.

kchats
07-14-2006, 03:02 AM
Mess With the Bison "U" Get the Horns! :D

sambini
07-14-2006, 04:55 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++

imabison
07-15-2006, 03:44 PM
I'll wager that the new logo will outsell the old ones (merchandise, etc) and eventually become the primary mark of the Bison. Maybe will even replace the old bison on the football helmets.

I agree that the words 'NDSU' or 'Bison' do not need to accompany this logo - it would be a detraction.


Hornbachers in north Fargo has T-Shirts and Hooded Sweats with the new logos. Green and Yellow versions of each. Nice to see more stores selling the Bison gear. $ 19.99 T-shirts and $ 39.99 for the Hooded Seatshrts. Not a wide range of sizes available on the rack.

kchats
07-15-2006, 06:46 PM
Is the new logo the only thing on the new apparel? Do the words North Dakota State or the letters NDSU appear on the garment anywhere?

imabison
07-15-2006, 07:47 PM
Is the new logo the only thing on the new apparel? Do the words North Dakota State or the letters NDSU appear on the garment anywhere?


The ones I saws have NDSU in Yellow, the new logo, and word Bison in more of Gold on that green ones. Can't recall what the Yellow shirts looked exactly like.

imabison
07-15-2006, 11:19 PM
Is the new logo the only thing on the new apparel? Do the words North Dakota State or the letters NDSU appear on the garment anywhere?


The ones I saws have NDSU in Yellow, the new logo, and word Bison in more of Gold on that green ones. Can't recall what the Yellow shirts looked exactly like.


I saw them again today. They each have different logos styles and looks.

DIBISON
07-16-2006, 05:11 AM
I have never seen any Bison apparel in Hornbachers before. Are they a new sponsor? Great if they are, I'll have to look for the clothing next time I am in one of their stores.

sambini
07-16-2006, 08:18 PM
Hornbachers are a very good TEAMMAKER+++++++++++

kchats
07-16-2006, 08:20 PM
They sold NDSU apparel when I attended in the late 80's as did Sunmart, at least at their 19th Avenue location.

Ivy
11-08-2006, 11:30 PM
Now that the new logo has been out for a while, it has really grown on me.

They still have the other logos, though, right? *It seems the only logo now used is the face. *I thought they initially promoted it as a secondary logo.

Mr_Meanor
11-09-2006, 03:11 AM
I like the old logo better