FargoDome Expansion-There's Enough Money!!!

[IowaBison]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=158805

[ACES1180]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=158805


Very good news!

[NDSUstudent]

This is great news!!! One step closer to a new arena!

[sambini]

GOOD NEWS But Mike Williams is going to be a pain in the ass on this.

[TheBisonator]

GOOD NEWS But Mike Williams is going to be a pain in the ass on this.

Mike Williams is against ANY civic project for Fargo, whether it's a library, park, new basketball arena, recreation center, or whatever.

Let's vote the douche out next chance we get.

[NDSUstudent]

Just saw that Mayor Walaker will be on Hot Talk tomorrow to talk about the Dome addition.

[sambini]

GOOD NEWS But Mike Williams is going to be a pain in the ass on this.

Mike Williams is against ANY civic project for Fargo, whether it's a library, park, new basketball arena, recreation center, or whatever.

Let's vote the douche out next chance we get.
Igive that a+++++++++++

[IowaBisonToo]

Let's "Git 'er done!" :D

[2006gwfcchamps]

Very nice indeed!


Take that Mr. Doom-n-gloom (aka KChats).

[bisonaudit]

Williams is going to have a field day with the cost overruns on the library project and he's going to use that fiasco to hammer away on the Arena issue as well.

[2006gwfcchamps]

Walaker and co. will smack him down in his place.

[bisonaudit]

Walaker and co. will smack him down in his place.

My concern is there are apparently a fair number of people who think the same way he does, they voted for him, and he seems to think that they'll keep voting for him. Apparently there are a lot of folks who keep their money under their matress and make a hobby out of being irritated by people who don't. If there's anyone else on the council who's on the fence and these 'up hill both ways' mentality voters get a hold on them all of a sudden we're looking at a public vote on the Arena which is anything but a lock.

[Bison_Dan]

Williams is going to have a field day with the cost overruns on the library project and he's going to use that fiasco to hammer away on the Arena issue as well.

I doubt that he'll say too much, being he and Linda Coats were the primary sponsors of the library. :D

[imabison]

Walaker and co. will smack him down in his place.

As I was told once, the smack down goes something like this "Call for the vote" 4 in favor 1 against, smack down complete!!!

[ACES1180]

GOOD NEWS But Mike Williams is going to be a pain in the ass on this.

Mike Williams is against ANY civic project for Fargo, whether it's a library, park, new basketball arena, recreation center, or whatever.

Let's vote the douche out next chance we get.

Even seeing Williams get interviewed on TV annoys me...He just seems like he assumes he is better than everyone...With that said, I still think a new addition will be built.

[IowaBison]

What we need is a private money donor..........

[bisonaudit]

Williams is going to have a field day with the cost overruns on the library project and he's going to use that fiasco to hammer away on the Arena issue as well.

I doubt that he'll say too much, being he and Linda Coats were the primary sponsors of the library. *:D

I didn't realize that, thanks. At least we've got that going for us.

[kchats]

Very nice indeed!


Take that Mr. Doom-n-gloom (aka KChats).




Did I miss something? I didn't see a story that said the arena was a go. I also didn't see a story that said NDSU had raised any money towards this new arena. It isn't a done deal until the contract is signed and the money is raised. :o

I did read a story that said construction is expected to start on the BSA renovations later this year. I also read that NDSU had raised over $8 million and that the total renovation costs will be $25 million. ::)

[Hammersmith]

Yeah, I don't understand why he's so confident either. The numbers in that article make it sound somewhat iffy.

$29.2M in combined accounts after sales tax expiration
$1M needed per year for general upkeep and improvements
$52.5M needed over the next 50 years
siphoning $15M for an arena will leave the combined fund at $11.2M by 2032 to cover the next 25 years

Between this and the increase of the BSA project from $16M to $25M, my confidence in the project is not sky-high. I really want to see the arena happen soon like everyone else, but perhaps the best option is to park the total $29.2M in a moderate-yield investment fund and let it grow for a few years. Get the BSA project finished first and then use a NCAA tourney appearance or two to kick off a new-arena capital drive. The FD money will still be there in 2010 or 2015 or 2020. It's not as sexy a solution as some, but it might be better than an anti-NDSU backlash in 15 or 20 years when the FD runs out of money for upkeep and Bison basketball takes the blame for a new tax.

[Bison_Dan]

Yeah, I don't understand why he's so confident either. The numbers in that article make it sound somewhat iffy.

$29.2M in combined accounts after sales tax expiration
$1M needed per year for general upkeep and improvements
$52.5M needed over the next 50 years
siphoning $15M for an arena will leave the combined fund at $11.2M by 2032 to cover the next 25 years

Between this and the increase of the BSA project from $16M to $25M, my confidence in the project is not sky-high. I really want to see the arena happen soon like everyone else, but perhaps the best option is to park the total $29.2M in a moderate-yield investment fund and let it grow for a few years. Get the BSA project finished first and then use a NCAA tourney appearance or two to kick off a new-arena capital drive. The FD money will still be there in 2010 or 2015 or 2020. It's not as sexy a solution as some, but it might be better than an anti-NDSU backlash in 15 or 20 years when the FD runs out of money for upkeep and Bison basketball takes the blame for a new tax.

Those funds are what we have now but remember half of the sales tax when to the streets, etc. If we had the WHOLE 1/2 cent sales tax we'd have so much money we wouldn't know what to do with it.

[IowaBison]

Is that true Bison Dan?

Could you provide a reference?


While I think that the city commission needs to make a decision which at this point isn't cut and dry:

-The FargoDome is one of a few public venues in this country that covers operating on its own.

-About half of the expenditures noted in the study are for 'capital expenses'. If they are looking for an authorized capital project, I don't think any will be the payoff of an added arena.

-Addition of the arena is a strategic move. It will make use of fixed resources and provide an appropriately sized venue for many events.

[2006gwfcchamps]

the total renovation costs will be $25 million.

Nope.

That's if we renovated the whole BSA, including the arena.


We aren't going to do that now.


If we put all of the basketball facilities at the new FD arena, 8 million might even be enough to do the BSA renovation right now.

[bisonaudit]

$11.2 million won't cut it to cover 25 years of cost. *The inflation adjusted return would have to be around 8.5% every year. *Way to risky.

Additionally, the $1 in estimated capital and maintenance costs doesn't cover improvements and maintenance for the proposed addition, so they've got to come up with a way to pay for that too. *(NDSU may well be willing to bear this cost as they would be a primary benefitiary of the facility.)

Assuming a more reasonable 5% inflation adjusted annual return you're looking at waiting 7 years, give or take, to grow a big enough nut to cover the $15 to build as well as continuing maintenace on the existing facility. *This still assumes another solution to maintenance for the new arena. *Historically construction and infrastructure costs increase faster than inflation so 7 years down the road you won't be able to build a competitive facility with the $15.

I want to see this thing happen as much as the next guy but it's looking like a $15 million contribution from the FargoDome authority is a stretch at this point.

Of course none of this addresses the revenue side of the equation. *If the facility makes money those funds may be available as an addition to the capital improvement fund conversely if it operates in the red then the city is out looking for more money anyway.

BTW I don't think there's anyway that the BSA renovation sans basketball can get done for $8 million. I think you still have to have practice courts at the BSA because of the multipurpose nature of the proposed FD expansion. Either that or NDSU is looking a paying a ton of rent to get use of the FD facility nearly everyday for the entire basketball season.

[2006gwfcchamps]

Why can't the practice courts be at the dome?

Just do a little expansion to the west of the proposed arena location. Wouldn't take up much room, just a building big enough to house 2 courts. The building would be owned by NDSU, no rent.


Then what's left to do to the BSA?

New weight room, new batting cages, new offices, new locker rooms.

That should be 8 million.



Also, as far as the revenue generated by the new arena, don't forget about naming rights!

Easily 15 million if you give rights for the whole complex (dome and arena).

[bisonaudit]

Also, as far as the revenue generated by the new arena, don't forget about naming rights!

Easily 15 million if you give rights for the whole complex (dome and arena).


I'm afraid the naming rights are already factored into the equation.

$15 from FDA
$15 from NDSU
$15 from naming rights

$45 cost to construct

[2006gwfcchamps]

30 million from Tax, you mean.

[NDSUstudent]

The BSA renovation will not cost 25 million, it will only cost that much if basketball has to stay there. I think the new arena will get built, as long as the city can give 10-15 million.

[bisonaudit]

30 million from Tax, you mean.

Try this for an anti-tax spin:

The $15 from the FDA is tax, all grant you that. One that was voted for any approved by the public and a portion of which has already been diverted to other worthy infrastructure projects to improve the city.

The $15 from NDSU is absolutely not tax, in fact it's almost entirely tax free and a vast majority of the donations to raise that money are tax deductiable to the donor. *So that will actually reduce the tax burden of the facility, by about 7% (average tax burden 20%, 1/3 of the facility cost is tax free.) *Somebody is getting out from under the governments thumb, it just might not be you. *:'(

Advertising costs are a ligitimate business expense which would further reduce the tax burden of the facililty, but let's assume that whoever is going to spend on the naming rights would have spent that money on other advertising anyway.

So I'd put the net tax burden of the proposed facility at $12 million, but I could argue for $9 or maybe less if you think my tax rate is too low.

The 'new' tax burden then is actually somewhere between ($3) and ($6) million. *We should build this think tomorrow and really stick it to the man. *;)

[sambini]

$11.2 million won't cut it to cover 25 years of cost. *The inflation adjusted return would have to be around 8.5% every year. *Way to risky.

Additionally, the $1 in estimated capital and maintenance costs doesn't cover improvements and maintenance for the proposed addition, so they've got to come up with a way to pay for that too. *(NDSU may well be willing to bear this cost as they would be a primary benefitiary of the facility.)

Assuming a more reasonable 5% inflation adjusted annual return you're looking at waiting 7 years, give or take, to grow a big enough nut to cover the $15 to build as well as continuing maintenace on the existing facility. *This still assumes another solution to maintenance for the new arena. *Historically construction and infrastructure costs increase faster than inflation so 7 years down the road you won't be able to build a competitive facility with the $15.

I want to see this thing happen as much as the next guy but it's looking like a $15 million contribution from the FargoDome authority is a stretch at this point.

Of course none of this addresses the revenue side of the equation. *If the facility makes money those funds may be available as an addition to the capital improvement fund conversely if it operates in the red then the city is out looking for more money anyway.

BTW I don't think there's anyway that the BSA renovation sans basketball can get done for $8 million. *I think you still have to have practice courts at the BSA because of the multipurpose nature of the proposed FD expansion. *Either that or NDSU is looking a paying a ton of rent to get use of the FD facility nearly everyday for the entire basketball season.
Thanks Bisonaudit +++