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View Full Version : Mini-Band Rant - Ignore-at-will



Hammersmith
09-01-2006, 03:51 AM
Sorry, must vent.


First, I agree with what some of you posted on McFeely's blog: Elton John? WTF?!? Dear God, what's going on?

Second, I counted 80-90 on the field. We were at 160 in the mid-nineties. Only ten years ago! Something drastic needs to be done to improve new membership and retention. Moving to DI was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Why couldn't the band have hitched a ride on the football team's coattails? Used the Teammakers expansion to get a few extra bucks? It worked for UND when they resurrected their band a few years back. Why wasn't the GSMB a bigger priority for the music dept.?

Last, a schedule that is hell on the football team is incredibly easy on the band. There is no excuse for them not to put on four different halftime shows this year. The only one that should be duplicated is tonight's<shudder> for the Northeastern game. Every other game should have new music and fieldwork.

It sounds like the band is traveling to the Minnesota game(almost certainly not for pregame or halftime). This year will go down as the band's cushiest year in (not-so)recent memory. I'm expecting something bloody-well better than Elton John. Gah.

/rant off

Bisonguy
09-01-2006, 04:00 AM
Band numbers seem to be dwindling each year.

Last year or the year before was around 100-110.

Red drums don't cut it, either. Red drum, red drum...

sambini
09-01-2006, 04:03 AM
What has happened to the lower numbers?

insane_ponderer
09-01-2006, 04:14 AM
I can't speak for the band numbers, but the music dept. apparently is the red headed step child of NDSU.

My sister is a vocal performace major and against a lot of their own students protest, the directors decided to have their one major performance "pirates of penzance" the same weekend as the gopher game.

And of course they are going to wonder, and then complain about why there was such a small crowd.

My sister was livid, i could get the details from her and get exact quotes from the faculty, but it boiled down to them feeling sorry for themselves that they aren't as popular as the athletic dept, and then throwing a fit about it.

sambini
09-01-2006, 04:17 AM
THANKS FOR THE INSIGHT GCITY.

Hammersmith
09-01-2006, 04:29 AM
What has happened to the lower numbers?
Back when I was in the band under Wayne Dorothy, he told me that he had tracked over ten years of growth trends and there was one consistency. Every year after the Bison made the playoffs, the band grew in size. Every year after the Bison missed the playoffs, the band shrank. I don't think the band ever fully recovered from the "Year-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named." (You know, 2001 + 1)

Things should have improved as the DI hype increased, but for some reason they haven't. Something drastic and "outside-the-box" needs to be done, but I don't have any friends on the inside anymore so I don't have any solid suggestions; only guesses. One thing is for certain, if the band does not have the full support of the music faculty and administration, it's going to wither completely and soon.

Hammersmith
09-01-2006, 04:52 AM
I can't speak for the band numbers, but the music dept. apparently is the red headed step child of NDSU.
This was true in the 90's. In a conversation with my adviser at the time (a music prof), I was told that new doctorates at NDSU were the lowest paid in the NDUS and the music doctorates were the lowest paid at NDSU. To say this caused some resentment was to put it mildly. I hope things have changed, but it wouldn't suprise me if they haven't. Still, we had good support from University Presidents, for the most part. One of Ozbun's last acts was to get the $65,000 we needed for new uniforms from an anonymous donor. Still don't know who. Fischer was also good(if only for a year), since he worked closely with band directors because the ND Governor's School (which he ran) paid for summer band. Plough? Did he do anything while he was here? Chapman helped add 3 masters progams and 2 doctorates.


My sister was livid, i could get the details from her and get exact quotes from the faculty, but it boiled down to them feeling sorry for themselves that they aren't as popular as the athletic dept, and then throwing a fit about it
I am so sick of music professors/educators acting like victims and drama queens. Yes, Concert Band & Choir and Jazz Ensemble are more important than marching band for the academic/artistic health of the program, but MB will pay the bills if you let it. It's a tool, for cripes sake. Use it! *<deep breath> <whew> Okay I'm better now. *;) :)





p.s. Oh, and I completely agree with Bisonguy about the red drums. WTF?!? Green, Yellow, Black, White, Silver. Any of those would have worked and they chose Red?? I think that was when I gave up hoping for good things and began to expect the worst.

BisonBacker
09-01-2006, 05:27 AM
What has happened to the lower numbers?
Back when I was in the band under Wayne Dorothy, he told me that he had tracked over ten years of growth trends and there was one consistency. Every year after the Bison made the playoffs, the band grew in size. Every year after the Bison missed the playoffs, the band shrank. I don't think the band ever fully recovered from the "Year-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named." (You know, 2001 + 1)

Things should have improved as the DI hype increased, but for some reason they haven't. Something drastic and "outside-the-box" needs to be done, but I don't have any friends on the inside anymore so I don't have any solid suggestions; only guesses. One thing is for certain, if the band does not have the full support of the music faculty and administration, it's going to wither completely and soon.

First let me say I know nothing about the music department firsthand and can only repeat what I have heard others say. But I have heard many positive things about Wayne Dorothy over the years since he has left, what would the possiblity of luring him back to NDSU? Could he help drum (pun intended ;D) up support for the band?

Hammersmith
09-01-2006, 07:36 AM
First let me say I know nothing about the music department firsthand and can only repeat what I have heard others say. *But I have heard many positive things about Wayne Dorothy over the years since he has left, what would the possiblity of luring him back to NDSU? *Could he help drum (pun intended ;D) up support for the band?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oh, that just made my night!!

I realize you don't know what happened back in 1999, and I'm not making fun of you, but if you knew the story(which I will only lightly touch), you would understand why there is a better chance of magical pixies flying out of my ass while singing "God Save the Queen" and doing tequila shots than what you just suggested.

Wayne did not leave because he chose to, and all of the cast-of-characters that caused his leaving are still in place. The effective firing happened during Fischer's interm presidency and he felt he could not interfere in a departmental/tenure matter. That incident also may have caused us to lose two other music professors as well. That's debatable and there were other factors, but pissed is far too light a term for the feelings in the department that summer. Besides, Warren Olfert recieved tenure a year or two ago, so even if you wanted to change directors...

That was a very ugly time for the music department(and that was before the lawyers got involved), and it's probably best that it was handled rather quietly instead of in the press or worse. While many, maybe all, of the replacement hires are good or very good, I personally feel that deep scars remain and a feeling of momentum was lost in 1999. I can only imagine sadly what might have been with the pre-1999 music department plus Dr. Chapman.

In the interests of fairness to those who are not here to defend themselves, I must point out some of Wayne's negatives. He was gruff, abrasive, intimidatng, tactless, something of a procrastinator, and he couldn't organise/administrate his way out of a paper bag. He was also better at his job than anyone I have ever seen, and I admire and respect few people more than him.

I feel like I just wrote a eulogy. :o :'( ;)


Yes, that was lightly touching the story. :P

insane_ponderer
09-01-2006, 12:36 PM
I can't speak for the band numbers, but the music dept. apparently is the red headed step child of NDSU.
This was true in the 90's. In a conversation with my adviser at the time (a music prof), I was told that new doctorates at NDSU were the lowest paid in the NDUS and the music doctorates were the lowest paid at NDSU. To say this caused some resentment was to put it mildly. I hope things have changed, but it wouldn't suprise me if they haven't. Still, we had good support from University Presidents, for the most part. One of Ozbun's last acts was to get the $65,000 we needed for new uniforms from an anonymous donor. Still don't know who. Fischer was also good(if only for a year), since he worked closely with band directors because the ND Governor's School (which he ran) paid for summer band. Plough? Did he do anything while he was here? Chapman helped add 3 masters progams and 2 doctorates.


My sister was livid, i could get the details from her and get exact quotes from the faculty, but it boiled down to them feeling sorry for themselves that they aren't as popular as the athletic dept, and then throwing a fit about it
I am so sick of music professors/educators acting like victims and drama queens. Yes, Concert Band & Choir and Jazz Ensemble are more important than marching band for the academic/artistic health of the program, but MB will pay the bills if you let it. It's a tool, for cripes sake. Use it! *<deep breath> <whew> Okay I'm better now. *;) :)


p.s. Oh, and I completely agree with Bisonguy about the red drums. WTF?!? Green, Yellow, Black, White, Silver. Any of those would have worked and they chose Red?? I think that was when I gave up hoping for good things and began to expect the worst.

I agree, the fact that they act that way is pathetic. *I understand that musicals and operas take a lot of work to put on, but at the same time professors (especially at the undergradlevel) have to realize that people are going to be involved in other activities. *One of the current music professors threw a fit (like yelling that the student doesn't know what committment is and then walking out) when she tried to explain to him that she was going to have to miss a half hour (of the scheduled 8 per week) of rehersal on sundays for student government (which she is going into her third year of being involved in)

I hate to be the one to say it, but can't we all just get along? *Everyone is on the same side, working for the same university people, i mean a little cooperation, and what do you expect when you take a job at NDSU, you're gonna make the concert choir more popular than the football team? *It shouldn't even be a competition, apples and oranges folks.

Personally I think its a pretty poor mentality.

BisonBacker
09-02-2006, 03:40 AM
First let me say I know nothing about the music department firsthand and can only repeat what I have heard others say. *But I have heard many positive things about Wayne Dorothy over the years since he has left, what would the possiblity of luring him back to NDSU? *Could he help drum (pun intended ;D) up support for the band?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oh, that just made my night!!

I realize you don't know what happened back in 1999, and I'm not making fun of you, but if you knew the story(which I will only lightly touch), you would understand why there is a better chance of magical pixies flying out of my ass while singing "God Save the Queen" and doing tequila shots than what you just suggested.

Wayne did not leave because he chose to, and all of the cast-of-characters that caused his leaving are still in place. The effective firing happened during Fischer's interm presidency and he felt he could not interfere in a departmental/tenure matter. That incident also may have caused us to lose two other music professors as well. That's debatable and there were other factors, but pissed is far too light a term for the feelings in the department that summer. Besides, Warren Olfert recieved tenure a year or two ago, so even if you wanted to change directors...

That was a very ugly time for the music department(and that was before the lawyers got involved), and it's probably best that it was handled rather quietly instead of in the press or worse. While many, maybe all, of the replacement hires are good or very good, I personally feel that deep scars remain and a feeling of momentum was lost in 1999. I can only imagine sadly what might have been with the pre-1999 music department plus Dr. Chapman.

In the interests of fairness to those who are not here to defend themselves, I must point out some of Wayne's negatives. He was gruff, abrasive, intimidatng, tactless, something of a procrastinator, and he couldn't organise/administrate his way out of a paper bag. He was also better at his job than anyone I have ever seen, and I admire and respect few people more than him.

I feel like I just wrote a eulogy. *:o :'( ;)


Yes, that was lightly touching the story. :P

Glad I made your night ;)

TheDoctor
09-03-2006, 12:39 AM
The band came and played on the basketball court at the BSA around 6:15 for the faculty social and they sounded good to me. :D

WYOBISONMAN
09-03-2006, 01:17 AM
One has to say cudos to those student that spend thier time playing for the Goldstar Marching Band. We all appreciate the hell out of every one of them!

Bisonguy
09-03-2006, 05:07 AM
One has to say cudos to those student that spend thier time playing for the Goldstar Marching Band. *We all appreciate the hell out of every one of them!

They do a great job with what they're given.


Here's a nice video of what I'd like the GSMB to be in a few years (of course, it would be cooler if it said 'Bison' *8-))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPNnIFH6_RU

Hammersmith
09-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Here's a nice video of what I'd like the GSMB to be in a few years (of course, it would be cooler if it said 'Bison' *8-))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPNnIFH6_RU
I'm impressed. I've seen that in pictures, but I've never seen it in action. What's most impressive to me is how simple it is while looking complicated. Only a handful of players actually need to know where to go, the rest just follow, and most everything is on yard and hash lines. This makes it easy to teach quickly so it looks good during the first game of the season. All the rest is just loads and loads of style (esp. whoever gets to "dot the i").

DomeGuy
09-05-2006, 09:34 PM
The reason the GSMB sucks is because of it's director.

If you don't believe me, talk to him... he'll illustrate why the band sucks more than their performances.

Wacker_in_the_Hall
09-05-2006, 09:57 PM
"The Pride of North Dakota----NDSU'S Marching Band 67 strong"

We need to ask the Bunnies how they do it---They dont have a football team but their Band sure kicks ass!

sambini
09-05-2006, 11:01 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

sdsupride
09-06-2006, 12:00 AM
http://www3.sdstate.edu/SDSU/NewsDetail45702.cfm?ID=46,5295

SDSU Pride of the Dakotas to debut new instruments
Nothing says fall like football. And nothing says South Dakota State University football like a halftime performance from The Pride of the Dakotas Marching Band.

When SDSU’s nearly 350-member marching band takes the field this season, however, fans will notice a big difference.

“Everything is brand new. Everything’s silver,” said Jim McKinney, SDSU director of bands and The Pride.

Last September the band kicked off “Step Up for the Pride,” a fundraising campaign to replace aging instruments with new silver ones....

http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary/Page/Images/Data/10755.jpg
The Pride of the Dakotas Marching Band provided entertainment before the announcement of SDSU's invitation into the Mid-Continent Conference.

sambini
09-06-2006, 12:57 AM
Thanks for the info and are you coming top FARGO this year? You folks just rock+++++++++++

troianus
09-06-2006, 01:06 AM
did you forget that they are done after the last game in October because after that its too cold.

sdsupride
09-06-2006, 01:16 AM
As of now it's not the schedule http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary/Page/Information/DataInstances/383/Files/44391/Pride_Newsletter_(06).pdf.

Hammersmith
09-06-2006, 02:56 AM
did you forget that they are done after the last game in October because after that its too cold.
If you are talking about the GSMB, please tell me you're kidding or guessing. That should be a decision made in late October, and only if the temps are consistantly in the low 40's/high 30's with medium winds. If not, just wear gloves and hats and march without instruments. (Freezing temps can ruin instruments.) When the temps are that low, use the time to practice stand music in the band room (I think it could use the work.) and take a couple Fridays off.

BTW, one reason the SDSU band is larger is the much more developed HS marching band programs in SD. I think there are less than 5 HS programs in ND that put on a field show. In fact, Mandan is the only one I'm sure of.

Re: New brass at SDSU: I'm blue and yellow with envy. What did that set you back, around $150,000?

BisBison
09-06-2006, 03:09 AM
Mandan High IS the only one in ND, and they are small only 45 or 50. They will be marching at the Sept 16 Bison game. Maybe the combined bands can make some big sound.

sdsupride
09-06-2006, 01:32 PM
Re: New brass at SDSU: I'm blue and yellow with envy. What did that set you back, around $150,000?


http://www3.sdstate.edu/AlumniFoundation/SDSUFoundation/ProjectsandPriorities/Pride.cfm


The “Step up for the Pride” campaign launched last fall has enabled the Pride of the Dakotas to purchase nearly $300,000 in new equipment. *

Hammersmith
09-06-2006, 02:08 PM
Okay, that put me right through envy and straight into jealousy. I hate you guys.

Just kidding. Congrats on the campaign and I hope we see The Pride in the Fargodome sometime soon. 2009 perhaps?

troianus
09-06-2006, 08:55 PM
did you forget that they are done after the last game in October because after that its too cold.
If you are talking about the GSMB, please tell me you're kidding or guessing. That should be a decision made in late October, and only if the temps are consistantly in the low 40's/high 30's with medium winds. If not, just wear gloves and hats and march without instruments. (Freezing temps can ruin instruments.) When the temps are that low, use the time to practice stand music in the band room (I think it could use the work.) and take a couple Fridays off.

BTW, one reason the SDSU band is larger is the much more developed HS marching band programs in SD. I think there are less than 5 HS programs in ND that put on a field show. In fact, Mandan is the only one I'm sure of.

Re: New brass at SDSU: I'm blue and yellow with envy. What did that set you back, around $150,000?

I was talking of SDSU

Hammersmith
09-06-2006, 09:06 PM
I was talking of SDSU
I'm really glad that's the case. I was worried because NDSU has only five home games this year, and two of those are Nov 11 & 18. SDSU's final home game is Nov 4, so not practicing in Nov won't hurt them much at all.

SDbison
09-06-2006, 09:23 PM
Here is what I posted on another topic recently. *You can't say the problem with number of band players is just the few bands at North Dakota high schools. *What about Minnnesota high schools. *Why not get reciprocity with South Dakota and compete for some of their band kids. *Lack of vision and funding is killing the GSMB. *South Dakota state can really take pride in their band. *NDSU's band is not very impressive. *

2. *Gold Star Marching Band: Need more members, better music, more percussion, green and/or yellow drums (not f'ing red). *

OK, improving the band was 2nd on my list and the color thing was mentioned 4th in the sentence. *Don't know what the deal is with the NDSU band but they look bush league. *Many high schools have bigger bands and WTF is the deal with using red drums when your school colors are yellow and green. *The least they could have done is bought something neutral like black or white. *Based on the music being played and the ever shrinking band members the Gold Star Band is starting to be an embarassment. *The football team is DI level and the band is DII or DIII. *Compared to SDSU whose band is at least a 9 out of 10 the Gold Star might get a 3. *Yeah I know it comes down to funding, but if it keeps going down hill no band might be a better option. *
I really wanted to talk about other stuff, but now you know what I really think! * Chapman needs to get on the Music departments A$$ and get them some more $$. *

IowaBisonToo
09-06-2006, 10:08 PM
What the band needs are kids that are used to and enjoy marching. My first two years in undergrad at St Cloud State I was in the marching band. Most ALL of the students were big into their high school summer marching bands, drum and bugle corps, or both. I remember seeing quite a few of them during the summer during parade competitions.

My drum line had a very heavy influence from the drum and bugle corps. Our percussion instructor had been with the Blue Devils (one the premier D&B Corps in the US). He was not a faculty member and that made it better (many a Saturday was spent getting our equipment from the music building then getting our "other equipment" from the liquor store then going out and having fun). The flag line was the same. However, the thing that made the difference was that the faculty director let these others do their thing and guide the students. We basically did our own thing with the exception of the actual show which was run by the faculty director. This was more important than new drums (which we desperately needed) or when and how often we practiced (froze my fingers more than once - can't play snare very well while wearing gloves). Long story short, if the faculty is crap, so will be the marching band.

Who knows, maybe band was "cooler" back then than it is today. 8-)

TriCollegeBison
09-07-2006, 04:03 AM
Band is still cool. The DCI finals were on ESPNII last night - the second year they have been broadcasted on something other than PBS.

Wacker_in_the_Hall
09-07-2006, 04:23 AM
I agree, agreat Marching Band is very cool and a real plus to any University.

TriCollegeBison
09-07-2006, 04:28 AM
You get what you pay for. If the university wanted a 250+ member band they would need the following:
1. new uniforms - they cost a few hundred dollars each = at least $50,000 and thats being extremely conservative
2. sweet instruments like SDSU = $200,000
3. larger staff = whatever the going rate for a staff is
4. ND is not traditionally a marching state just like Arizona isn't known for its high school hockey. You might have to give out some scholarships of financial incentives. I remember Huron was going to give me $5,000 a year if I'd go there for music... but that was many many many years ago.
5. Seek out South Dakota and Minnesota. That's where the marching bands are. Spend money to recruit there.
6. Big universities probably hire out someone to write drill ($1,000 per show????)

That's my view from just one angle. Oh and SDbison, I appolgize for a more or less cheap shot on a different thread involving drum color.

IowaBisonToo
09-07-2006, 01:21 PM
Band is still cool. *The DCI finals were on ESPNII last night - the second year they have been broadcasted on something other than PBS.
Yeah, I saw that. I said to my wife, "HEY! DCI is on TV!" She just looked at me, said, "Yeah." and walked out the door to go shopping. Definitely not for everyone but, I can see why ESPN broadcast it. If you've done any marching, you know that it is hard, athletic-type work. I remember there was nothing like strengthening my back like lugging around a set of toms for 8 hours during "camp."

mebison
09-11-2006, 07:32 PM
On the topic of Bison opponent marching bands, I gotta tip my hat to UC-Davis. A few years back the full SDSU band came to the FFD and a small contingent (~50-60) of the UC-Davis band came as well. The Davis band looked rag-tag running on the field in jeans and their uniform jackets, but they seriously put out more sound than NDSU or the 350+ SDSU band (not a slam on SDSU, they were just that good). After the game they joined us (GSMB) at Coaches for a few hours before heading back to Cali that same night.

I've got a friend now who did her undergrad at UC-Davis and she said their band is well-known and wins marching competitions regularly. If you get a chance to see their band, definately worth it!

Tatanka
09-13-2006, 11:38 AM
On the topic of Bison opponent marching bands, I gotta tip my hat to UC-Davis. *A few years back the full SDSU band came to the FFD and a small contingent (~50-60) of the UC-Davis band came as well. *The Davis band looked rag-tag running on the field in jeans and their uniform jackets, but they seriously put out more sound than NDSU or the 350+ SDSU band (not a slam on SDSU, they were just that good). *After the game they joined us (GSMB) at Coaches for a few hours before heading back to Cali that same night.

I've got a friend now who did her undergrad at UC-Davis and she said their band is well-known and wins marching competitions regularly. *If you get a chance to see their band, definately worth it!
++

I'll admit I didn't expect much from them, they looked like a bunch of damn hippies looking for the nearest granola giveaway but they kicked butt. And SDSU's band is always awesome.

Bisonguy
09-14-2006, 02:04 AM
The Aggie Band-Uh had a performance in the west lots after the game. :)

insane_ponderer
09-18-2006, 02:56 PM
I just wanted to post an email conversation between a NDSU music dept. faculty written in response to one of the current NDSU student senators (who is in the music dept.) that was inquiring why the music dept. would schedule a faculty recital (a drummer) at the same time as a football game. *And I took out all the names involved.


On Sep 13, 2006, at 10:11 AM, student senator wrote:

When I got this email:

Hey, all you people seeking the beat...some dude will be having a recital this SATURDAY, Sept. 16th at 7:30 p.m. in Beckwith Recital Hall. *Please stop by and check out his amazing drumming! :) Remember, this counts toward your Music 180 required Performance Attendances, so all the more reason to cheer on some dude.
~xxx~

I can't believe the music department would schedule a faculty recital during a football game. *Was this really the only possible time for the instructor? *How will students in Marching Band attend this? *And why is a percussion professor not worried about the Marching Band responsibilities, along with not monitoring a drum line for the D-1 University?
I think the music department's first step toward this new Marching Band is respect. *Respect is required for other university committments as well as the band. *This is the second instance of scheduling an event over a date where the band performs (not to mention a football game), and if the whole music department isn't allowed to support them, then I really think they feel underappreciated, and it's possibly a reason why numbers of the MB are low (or it could be not at all, this is just speculation).

These are just a few thoughts. *I figure communication is the best thing right now, so I'm telling you what I see as an involved student. *I've been reading a few comments about the GSMB on a few football message boards, and I've been talking to students about performances and such. *I had a great talk with the finance commissioner, and he's a great guy to work with since he is a football fan and also a former band member. *I do, however, encourage the department to rethink some scheduling conflicts and other actions, even if the MB project is in it's very early stages. *I know it's very difficult to resolve some issues, but I know that the
commission and your students appreciate the extra effort to make things available and beneficial to them.

Hope all is well!

student senator

Faculty Members Response

You make an excellent point here. I think that the old ways of both sides ignoring each other (or worse-as natural adversaries) still
exist to some degree and we have to educate our people (staff, faculty and students) to start thinking about these things as a
unified group. The perceived message here is that the game is not important.

I will talk about this in the next faculty meeting-just as a starting point in the philosophical change necessary. FYI-this event was
discussed at Monday's faculty meeting-folks were surprised to see some dude's recital happen at a time when many were not going to be able to attend.

We'll get there-soon

BisBison
09-18-2006, 05:40 PM
Way to go G-city, heep their feet to the fire. The sooner they realize we're in this together the sooner progress will be seen. BTW did anyone notice the Mandan High School Marching Braves were guests of the Gold Star Band Saturday? They performed well and I thought that was a good recruiting tool on the band's part as well.

mebison
09-18-2006, 06:03 PM
Just to throw out another point about the band that I don't think has really been brought up on here...

You need to be aware of where marching band lies in priority for some "pure" music people (i.e. music majors and faculty). Marching band, any marching band, is not seen as the pinnicle of musical performace. The top players in the band are often music majors, and many of these are die-hard football and MB fans, but many are also more interested in developing their professional abilities, which is done in concert bands, jazz bands, etc. Its the same with faculty. I think you'd find only a couple who were really into MB, while most are more interested in concert, jazz, etc. Granted, hopefully most would see the importance of the MB in bringing recognition, good or bad, to their department, but it is probably accorded somewhat less importance than other bands. Someone has mentioned giving scholarships for MB and recruiting great players, but scholarships would almost certainly be given to top music majors, who I would assume be choosing their program based on the quality of the bands, choirs, and faculty in the area they want to eventually perform/teach in. Of course, all other things being equal, the appeal of the MB might sway some fence sitters.

I'm not trying to make any real point, or defend anyone, just trying to convey a viewpoint I saw.

sambini
09-18-2006, 11:45 PM
I got to see the Michigan and Notre Dame bands this past saturday. It was quite a show. Thats what makes college football great. And those Notre Dame students were awesome . They stay and sing the alma mater with the band and football team.

imabison
09-19-2006, 02:27 AM
Way to go G-city, heep their feet to the fire. The sooner they realize we're in this together the sooner progress will be seen. BTW did anyone notice the Mandan High School Marching Braves were guests of the Gold Star Band Saturday? They performed well and I thought that was a good recruiting tool on the band's part as well.

Did anyone just happen to notice the Mandan High School band were wearing Black and White, and their Drum's were Black and white, no quite the Red and White used by NDSU. I still can't believe the red and white drums.

Bisonguy
09-19-2006, 03:24 AM
Way to go G-city, heep their feet to the fire. The sooner they realize we're in this together the sooner progress will be seen. BTW did anyone notice the Mandan High School Marching Braves were guests of the Gold Star Band Saturday? They performed well and I thought that was a good recruiting tool on the band's part as well.

Did anyone just happen to notice the Mandan High School band were wearing Black and White, and their Drum's were Black and white, no quite the Red and White used by NDSU. *I still can't believe the red and white drums.


Does anyone know for certain if the red drums were recently purchased, or are they the old red drums dragge out for the homecoming game when the band alumni come back?

troianus
09-19-2006, 06:17 AM
Way to go G-city, heep their feet to the fire. The sooner they realize we're in this together the sooner progress will be seen. BTW did anyone notice the Mandan High School Marching Braves were guests of the Gold Star Band Saturday? They performed well and I thought that was a good recruiting tool on the band's part as well.

Did anyone just happen to notice the Mandan High School band were wearing Black and White, and their Drum's were Black and white, no quite the Red and White used by NDSU. *I still can't believe the red and white drums.


Does anyone know for certain if the red drums were recently purchased, or are they the old red drums dragge out for the homecoming game when the band alumni come back?

They were purchased recently and for a few thousand dollars(a.k.a. at least three) less than buying any other color of drum.

BisonBryce
09-19-2006, 08:57 PM
I can't really hear the band now from section 21. Maybe my ears are going bad.

broke_back_mnt
09-19-2006, 09:16 PM
I love the Gold Star Marching Band! I love it at its highs and at its lows. The GSMB has been there forever. I love the discussion surrounding the band. I hope it propels it to a high.

Ive known the Drum Major before. Ive introduced and had as homecoming parade honorary Grand Marshall Linda Ronstadt. She loved it. I loved it. We all loved it. What a party!!

Good luck to all band members and all NDSU students and alums that are coming back for Homecoming. Good luck to the BISON. How they fare so shall the party!! GO BISON!!

BEAT BALL STATE!!!!!! ;D ;D :D :D :) :) 8-)

Bisonguy
09-19-2006, 09:18 PM
I can't really hear the band now from section 21. *Maybe my ears are going bad.

You really would not have heard them at all when they were on the west side.

SDBison screaming behind you probably hasn't improved your hearing. ;)

Mae
09-20-2006, 06:13 AM
You guys sure don't like the red drums too much. Let me tell you why they got red drums. First of all, the three color choices were white, black, and red. White is a bad idea. The drumline will have those drums for many years. But what happens to white drums after a couple of years? They change to an extremely gross yellowish color. Ew. Black is a great color, but let's face it. They're not a professional corps. They're students. Shit happens when they take the wraps off the drums for performances. And what shows up better than a big light-colored gouge against a black background? Not much. Scratches don't show as much on red. Red doesn't change to icky colors. So why not green or yellow, the school colors? Because those colors aren't in great demand in the drumline world. That means custom finish. That means big bucks that the band does not have. I had my reserves about red drums as well, but it really doesn't look bad. Besides, the drum carriers have bison stickers on them. Isn't that enough?

TransAmBison
09-20-2006, 11:54 AM
You guys sure don't like the red drums too much. Let me tell you why they got red drums. First of all, the three color choices were white, black, and red. White is a bad idea. The drumline will have those drums for many years. But what happens to white drums after a couple of years? They change to an extremely gross yellowish color. Ew. Black is a great color, but let's face it. They're not a professional corps. They're students. Shit happens when they take the wraps off the drums for performances. And what shows up better than a big light-colored gouge against a black background? Not much. Scratches don't show as much on red. Red doesn't change to icky colors. So why not green or yellow, the school colors? Because those colors aren't in great demand in the drumline world. That means custom finish. That means big bucks that the band does not have. I had my reserves about red drums as well, but it really doesn't look bad. Besides, the drum carriers have bison stickers on them. Isn't that enough?
Tons of people aren't even happy about just being DI-AA, they need to go DI-A, you think they'll be happy with Bison stickers on RED drums? My personal take, they should have saved up and did it right.

Hammersmith
09-20-2006, 12:03 PM
Actually, depending on the brand, there are other standard color choices. I probably would've leaned toward replacing the old white Yamaha's with a new set of silvers. The blacks would also have been a good choice since that color is a wood stain and could be touched up occasionally. Just no red, please.

IowaBisonToo
09-20-2006, 02:05 PM
Haven't seen the band and being a former member of a drumline, I'm interested as to what they got. *Pearl? *Ludwig? *Yamaha? *Wal-Mart? ;D *14"/15" snares? *How many bass? *Quads/quints/sexts? *Did they get new cymbals? *Maybe Mae can help me out on this one. *And by the way, what the hell are the carriers doing on the outside of the uniforms? *Unless, of course, so they're easy to get on and off in the stands. *Carriers outside uniforms are so . . . *::)

As far as color goes, white doesn't yellow that bad. *We had white drums at SCS that were ancient and they looked pretty good. *Maybe it's the manufacturer's paint that determines whether or not they go yellow. *You want some kick-ass looking drums? *Pull all the hardware off, get some gold-flecked contact-type paper, cover the shells and then remount the hardware. *That would be 8-).

(addition)
And, not being a professional corps is a lame-a$$ excuse for not getting the proper color. If there are high schools out there that can go out and get an awsome set of drums, why can't a university do it for cripes-sake? Get the band out to do some sort of fund raising. Let's say the school bought 6 snares, 5 bass and 4 tom sets, that's 15 drums. At an extra $500/ea for a color change, that's only $7500. A small amount to invest for a set of drums that will be with the school for some time to come.

Mae
09-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Just so we're all clear, I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just trying to explain the reasoning.

The part about the stickers was just to lighten the mood. The stickers are there, but carriers are worn under the uniforms, except for bass drums because they don't fit.

As far as white drums not yellowing that bad, after a few years, it isn't that bad. After fifteen, it's pretty bad. While a regular corps would replace equipment every five or so years, GSMB doesn't.

And why would this be??? MONEY!!!

The band simply can't afford to pay extra for a custom job. It was hard enough just to scrape enough money together for what they got. Add to that fact that new piccolos, sousaphones, mellophones, and marching baritones are needed, the color of the drums isn't gonna be at the top of the list. Also, new uniforms are an issue. That's approximately eighty five thousand by itself, not including instruments. Factor in that the marching band is only one part that the music department has to split money between. See the dilemma?

TriCollegeBison
09-20-2006, 07:23 PM
You mean I am going to have to read about these red drums for the next 15 years? *:o

Of course if they did get black drums we would be reading,
"Why aren't the drums yellow or green!"

If they got green drums we would be reading,
"The drums and band don't exactly match!"

Even if they did we would be reading,
"Why are their shoes black if the rest of their uniform isn't?!?!"

If they got new uniforms we would be reading,
"Is that the best they could do? *Don't they have a money tree growing in the music building that they could harvest from?"

If a money tree was dropped off by gnomes and they had the greatest uniforms that money could buy, you would be reading,
"Oh my gosh! *They play the same six songs over and over in the stands. *Why can't they be like SDSU and play two songs in the stands and sit down for most of the rest of the game?!?!?!"

If the band didn't play and canned music was piped in, you would be reading,
"Why isn't the band playing more?!?!?!?"

If you found a happy medium, you would still be reading,
"Why aren't they like SDSU?!?!"

If the SDSU band came to the dome and played a Teletubbies show on Kazoos, you would be reading,
"See! *See! *Now that's the kind of band we want!"

Welcome to Bisonville, Mea. *

2 quick points:

1. If you tell 100 bands members to go raise 100 bucks in addition to band fees so that they can buy drums of a different color other than ones they can afford now, they will tell you to F off.
2. It's not to color of the drums, its whats on the inside that counts. *Take some diversity training.

Go Bison!

mebison
09-20-2006, 07:51 PM
How do you really feel?? ;D ;D

TriCollegeBison
09-20-2006, 08:35 PM
Half truth, half in fun. :D

Go Bison!

IowaBisonToo
09-20-2006, 08:56 PM
It's not to color of the drums, its whats on the inside that counts.Go Bison!

You mean air? *Maybe it's like the wind instruments and they're full of HOT air. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

mebison
09-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Do any of the Bunnies on this board have inside knowledge of your band workings? *How do you recruit 300+ students?!? *I know high school MB is way bigger in SD than ND, but is that all there is to it? *Size makes a big difference in bands...I don't know about now, but a few years ago we were comparable as far as playing and marching ability. *3 times the bodies covers mistakes a little better though. *Do people in the Bunny Band play all 4 (or five+ *:-[) years, or are you heavy on rookies like we usually are? *Do band staff visit local high schools to recruit, since once the freshmen are on campus it's too late?

It makes sense to me that Big Ten-type schools can recruit 300-400 people when games sell out and band is a free ticket in, but at Brookings????

sambini
09-23-2006, 06:46 AM
They must get the COOKIES AND CREAM ICE CREAM yum yum+++++++++++

KTF
09-26-2006, 07:16 PM
I will try to shed some light on this subject but I don't have time to write about everything I would like. My buddy was in the GSB in the 1980's, the max numbers they had were in the 180's. SO the theory of winning brings out the numbers is true.

SDSU
how do they do it? SDSU has spent the past 10-15 years devoting every last penny that the music department has to build the marching band into what it is. This has come at the hand of other areas of the music program. NDSU has a better overall program - SDSU has the better overall marching band. The director is pro-marching and they have more assistants to help out. Upper classmen do not belittle lower classmen about being in marching band.
Where do they get the students? SD is huge into marching band especially Sioux Falls in marching, it is much bigger then in ND.
Atomosphere - SDSU looks positively upon it.
I do not know about credit hours or what the class counts towards.

NDSU
(from my experience in the GSB) The director is not a marching band director, he is a concert director. He would much rather be inside in the fall then outside. The upper classmen rip on the freshmen for being in marching band, thus second year member numbers are extremely low. Marching band only counts for 1 credit hour and takes more time than any 4 credit hour class, some just do not want to make that commitment. I believe that you can only use a max of 1 credit hour from marching band towards your electives.
Atomosphere - NDSU is not so positive

SDbison
09-27-2006, 03:14 AM
All of us can bitch all we want, or come up with all sorts of excuses, but the marching band at NDSU is not up to par. Compared to all the other things that have been done to make game day a DI like atmosphere this area has to be the worst. I really think someone in the know has to sit down with Joe Chapman and explain how the music department is being run and how lame the marching band is at this point in time. I know Joe is busy, but I bet he would do something to get things going and make the university proud in a few years. Just my thoughts.

BTW, no matter the reason, the person who chose red drums is an idiot! That choice just shows how screwed up things are in the music department. And one can't forget all the memorable tunes the band plays...........

mebison
09-27-2006, 05:19 AM
I'm all in favor of change and improvement in the GSMB, just don't take out your frustration on the folks in the band. *They give up a lot of time and effort to do what they do. *And when there are seasons like the 3(??) win year a few years back with ~3,000 fans per game they were still in the stands and on the field at EVERY game, standing, jumping and cheering through the WHOLE game.

Send Chapman after the director, let the leadership know you want better, but don't tell the people in the trenches they suck and shouldn't bother playing.

WYOBISONMAN
09-27-2006, 05:24 PM
I'm all in favor of change and improvement in the GSMB, just don't take out your frustration on the folks in the band. *They give up a lot of time and effort to do what they do. *And when there are seasons like the 3(??) win year a few years back with ~3,000 fans per game they were still in the stands and on the field at EVERY game, standing, jumping and cheering through the WHOLE game.

Send Chapman after the director, let the leadership know you want better, but don't tell the people in the trenches they suck and shouldn't bother playing.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

TriCollegeBison
09-27-2006, 05:27 PM
Red drums red drums red drums... Everytime the Gold Star Band plays on red drums, God kills a kitten. Think of the kittens. :-[

BisBison
09-27-2006, 05:32 PM
I'm all in favor of change and improvement in the GSMB, just don't take out your frustration on the folks in the band. *They give up a lot of time and effort to do what they do. *And when there are seasons like the 3(??) win year a few years back with ~3,000 fans per game they were still in the stands and on the field at EVERY game, standing, jumping and cheering through the WHOLE game.

Send Chapman after the director, let the leadership know you want better, but don't tell the people in the trenches they suck and shouldn't bother playing.

Thanks mebison, I couldn't have said it better myself. These guys/gals try their hardest, there just aren't enough of them. They spend a lot of hours of their own time and shouldn't get crap for it just because the numbers aren't where they should be.

Bisonguy
09-27-2006, 08:27 PM
I'm all in favor of change and improvement in the GSMB, just don't take out your frustration on the folks in the band. *They give up a lot of time and effort to do what they do. *And when there are seasons like the 3(??) win year a few years back with ~3,000 fans per game they were still in the stands and on the field at EVERY game, standing, jumping and cheering through the WHOLE game.

Send Chapman after the director, let the leadership know you want better, but don't tell the people in the trenches they suck and shouldn't bother playing.

Completely agree. The members of the GSMB are great, their resources, however, are not.