NCC D1 Conference

[JACKGUY]

I know this topic has been debated to death and it's clear that it will not happen. As I look at some of the teams that SDSU and NDSU will be competing against in Division I in most cases they do not compare to our own schools in the NCC in terms of facilities,attendence,enrollment and academic achievements. I would like to hear from some of those posters at other NCC schools as to what the mood is now that they see SDSU and NDSU moving up and out of the conference and the NCC and DII becoming watered down. I see a reality of the NCC and NSIC merging in the not so distant future. I said it before and will say it again that I think Hockey has become the primary focus at those institutions that have it and the dollars are going towards funding those programs at the expense of every othe sport. When I look at UND,USD,MnState,UNO,St Cloud and even Duluth I see no reason why these schools could not make the move with SDSU and NDSU. Could you imagine the kind of DI conference this could be with the above mentioned schools and UNC. I think we have been functioning as a conference closer to D1 than we have to any DII conferences. Again I understand all the reasons why this will not happen, but is frustrating when you see the calibre of schools we have in the region and I believe the NCC is selling itself short by not looking at the prospect of moving to DI.

[roadwarrior]

I agree with you Jackguy, but the NCC presidents met a year or two ago on this very topic and it was not approved by the majority. That is why NDSU, SDSU and UNC have moved on.

[tony]

Yeah, roadwarrior is right. Things have changed since then to make a DI NCC less attractive for NDSU and SDSU.

If SDSU and NDSU join an established conference, the: wait period for autobids in basketball will probably end up being five years.

If the NCC moves up in a couple of years, they'll probably be looking at a thirteen year wait.

That's a huge difference.

[JBB]

Since it didnt move up as a whole its going to be very difficult for the others to make the move. Its difficult for the 3 schools to find a conference now. Once they do any confrerence they join will certainly be full, but I guess more than 12 teams isnt out to question.

There would be room in the Great western but the only real alternative for other sports would be the alternatives that UNC, SDSU and NDSU leave behind. If we dont join the BSC it wont be interested in UND or any of the others that might move, unless they had a partner. If we dont join the Mid Con they would have to go as partners.

So, barring any unforseen major realinment, no matter what happens in the future its unlikely that any other NCC school could make the move alone.

[WYOBISONMAN]

The window of opportunity for the NCC has slammed shut and the fate of the NCC to me a conference comprised of minor educational institutions has been set.

[ndsubison]

In 5 yrs or so the NCC will be a hockey-first conference. As far as FB goes, the established programs will dominate the up & comers, making parity a distant reality. Sounds like fun, EH?

[JBB]

Its a hockey first conference now and has been for a while. Thats why we arent in it anymore.

[OCBison]

Y'all need to read a very good book by Murray Sperber called "Beer & Circus". Then you'll undertsnad why the majority of the NCC Presidents decided not to go DI. There'a an excellent chapter in the book about SUNY-Buffalo's decision to move to DI from DII. Heck, they even changed their name to The University at Buffalo and it still hasn't helped them.

When I read the chapter I couldn't help but think that I'd heard all the exact same rhetoric coming out of Joe Champman's mouth and Gene Taylor's mouth. All the BS about becoming a more research oriented university and being with their peer institutions is an absolute crock. It's a crying shame for the quality of undergraduate education at NDSU that they are going to go DI.

The other BS about an increase in alumni donations has been disproven in so many studies that I'm surprised an academic like Chapman has read any of them.

[BisonMav]

If the title is "Beer and Circus", it must be about UND. The number 2 city in the US for Binge Drinkers, with the Thomas, Engelstad and Kupchella three ring circus.

[89rabbit]

. *There'a an excellent chapter in the book about SUNY-Buffalo's decision to move to DI from DII. *Heck, they even changed their name to The University at Buffalo and it still hasn't helped them.



Haven't had time to read the book yet, but one flaw to your theory (that I can see without the book) is that SUNY-Buffalo/University of Buffalo went from D-II to I-A in football. *NDSU is moving from D-II up to I-AA.

[OCBison]

Perhaps 89rabbit you should read the book. Then you would see the error of Chapman's ways, Taylor's too.

Why JBB trying to make a comment about the BSC but just got a bit dyslexic? NDSU will never in a million years be invited into a conference that has an automatic bid to the BSC. It's sheer insanity to think otherwise.

The only positive about the Bison's move to DI is that in five years time when the BCS schools break away from the NCAA NDSU will be back on top in a reconfigured DII. Except they'll be calling it DI then.

[GFBison]

Murray Sperber , that's the guy who got Bobby Knight fired.

[BisonMav]

Perhaps 89rabbit you should read the book. *Then you would see the error of Chapman's ways, Taylor's too.

Why JBB trying to make a comment about the BSC but just got a bit dyslexic? *NDSU will never in a million years be invited into a conference that has an automatic bid to the BSC. *It's sheer insanity to think otherwise.

The only positive about the Bison's move to DI is that in five years time when the BCS schools break away from the NCAA NDSU will be back on top in a reconfigured DII. *Except they'll be calling it DI then.
OCBison,
Your chicken little routine is rather boring. We have heard this over and over by jealous non-NDSU people. NDSU is now Division I. Nothing you say or do will change that. Please get over it.

[NDSU_grad]

Perhaps 89rabbit you should read the book. *Then you would see the error of Chapman's ways, Taylor's too.

Why JBB trying to make a comment about the BSC but just got a bit dyslexic? *NDSU will never in a million years be invited into a conference that has an automatic bid to the BSC. *It's sheer insanity to think otherwise.

The only positive about the Bison's move to DI is that in five years time when the BCS schools break away from the NCAA NDSU will be back on top in a reconfigured DII. *Except they'll be calling it DI then.

BSC=Big Sky Conference
BCS=Bowl Championship Series

JBB was talking about the Big Sky Conference.

[Bisonguy]

Why don't you take your little "beer and circus" dog and pony show to the UND board? If you're truly concerned about athletics taking a backseat to education, you would be informed that UND's athletic budget was nearly $500,000 in the red last year. Obviously, hockey is the root of undergraduate education evil. ::)

[89rabbit]

Perhaps 89rabbit you should read the book. *Then you would see the error of Chapman's ways, Taylor's too.

Why JBB trying to make a comment about the BSC but just got a bit dyslexic? *NDSU will never in a million years be invited into a conference that has an automatic bid to the BSC. *It's sheer insanity to think otherwise.

The only positive about the Bison's move to DI is that in five years time when the BCS schools break away from the NCAA NDSU will be back on top in a reconfigured DII. *Except they'll be calling it DI then.


Again, you prove that you no nothing about what is going on at NDSU. JBB WAS NOT being dyslexic, he was talking about the Big Sky Conference (I-AA football) not the Bowl Championship Series (I-A football).

I have said it before, I will say it again: Since you don't seem understand the situation, why should anyone take you seriously? ??? :-/ ???

[GCWaters]

The other thing OCBIson doesn't get is that NDSU is not just an undergraduate institution--graduate programs and research play a huge role in what the school does, and they play a huge role in paying the bills. State funds and tuition do not even cover the costs of undergraduate education--look at what's happening at the smaller schools in the state. Focusing just on UG is a sure way to die...

[feminine_heroine]

Jackguy, MOst people in Omaha first of all don't care about UNO. Those of us who do care are generally happy where we are as long as the NCC gets a decent 8th school. As I have said many times before on this board I watched UMKC make the move and they haven't been too successful but maybe sdsu/ndsu will do well. I am happy with d1 hockey and d2 everything else. IT is fun to go to the games, the budget is reasonable and we play for national titles occasionally. I get up to Sioux Falls often so if sdsu ends up being pretty good I plan to go see them play either fb/bb. But if they end up being 4-24 in bb and 2-9 in fb I think I will stay away. There is no jealousy whatsoever in Omaha about this move but rather just some mild curiousity. But there is no doubt that the Mav fans will greatly miss sdsu/ndsu as opponents. That was not the case with UNC bc we always hated going all that way to play them.

*******By the way can someone send me the link to get on the sdsu fan site. I lost it.

[IowaBison]

You're right there's no jealosy in Omaha over SDSU's move, because to most in that town UNO is a community college.

[feminine_heroine]

Most people in omaha think of unomaha as a pretty good school where you can get a pretty good education at a reasonable price. But again most (not me of course) don't care about the D2 mavericks. Now hockey is another story especially in the years where we have been competitive. But NOBODY I have ever talked to think of UNO as a JUCO.

[IowaBison]

You're right being called a JUCO is a little unfair, but compared to Lincoln, you guys barely exist.

[JBB]

With the rule change for transition periods a DI NCC may be viable again. The big question is the ability of those schools to support both hockey and a full DI agenda. Right now they dont think its worth it.

Any extra sports money they get will go into facilities. The extra money NDSU/SDSU hope to get is going into upgrading the programs. I think all the schools are going to see travel costs go up or program quality go down.

If any more NCC schools move up they will almost certainly have to join the Great West Football Conference because its doubtful in the remaining NCC there are 6 schools willing and able to move. If 2 or 3 move it could lead to all sports GW conference or probably 2 divisions in another conference.

Im not sure what a fair buy in would be but it will have to factor in all the costs for creating the conference and some sort of present value for current and future income.

[somebison]

Article from NCC Commisioner (http://www.ncaa.org/news/2004/20040315/editorial/4106n04.html)

[Tatanka]

"Freedom alliance"? "Liberty alliance"? Please.

You know, this sounds an awful lot like those mental midgets that want to drop the "North" from North Dakota because it makes our state sound cold. ::) Division II is appropriately named as such. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just a second tier. Period.

[BisonMav]

Desperate to save the NCC ???

[somebison]

Desperate to save the NCC ???

NDSU is to Mike Marcil as Idaho is to Doug Fullerton

[filbert]

More like whistling past the graveyard.

[tony]

I wonder if any other schools in the NCC helped Marcil flesh out his ideas... hmm...

[JBB]

I just went through Marshall. SW State is not a big school. They wouldnt even have been considered in the old NCC. (Apollo High School in St. Cloud has a bigger football stadium.) Neither would any of the other teams that have been mentioned as possible new teams. The NCC used to fancy itself a DI conference playing DII. All of the schools that made it seem that way have left. They are now DI.