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Bisonfan1234
09-10-2004, 07:30 PM
Everything related to football is in the Fargodome, which install new fieldturf.

The BSA gets a new brick exterior and new permanent seats all around the court.

Dacotah stands are gone. Unused space is turned into parking. Bubble is put over field so the surface can be used in winter. New fieldturf is installed. Indoor track can set up or take down new banked indoor oval and 55m dash track ala Idaho State. Other sports can practice under the space in the winter as well.

Tennis courts are resurfaced and used by NDSU women's tennis team for practice. One competition court is added with permanent seats on one side.

All other facilities remain the same.

Anyone think of anything else?

tony
09-10-2004, 08:20 PM
- If the FargoDome won't bother to freshen up the paint job on the logos in the end zone, it's really doubtful that they'll allow NDSU to put in new turf (especially as the new stuff is, well, new).

- I sure like the idea of a brick exterior on the BSA.

- Yeah, one way of another, the stands will probably be gone from Dacotah. It might look cheesy to have meets in a bubble... I'd like to see the bubble, but while they're great for practice, it'd be pretty cheesy to use them for events. If NDSU buys the modular indoor track, they move the track from the bubble to FargoDome for meets... all depends on what they do to the seating at the BSA.

- Definitely have to do something for the tennis courts.

I think the key thing for the BSA, besides getting it ship-shape, is redoing the basketball seating.

Good post, BisonFan1234.

Bisonguy
09-10-2004, 08:32 PM
I heard last year part of the BSA remodel plan is to have permanent seating enclose the floor.

I'm somewhat interested in what the "other sports besides basketball" that NDSU might want to have in the Fargodome. Wrestling against a Big 10 opponent would qualify, but what else???

Also of note, if the BSA remodel is slated at between $8MM and $16MM for renovation, what all are they going to do?

KTF
09-10-2004, 08:37 PM
Would it be more cost effective to tear down the BSA and build new? I am not sure what the plans include but maybe this is the plan (tear down and build new)

IowaBison
09-10-2004, 08:44 PM
I heard last year part of the BSA remodel plan is to have permanent seating enclose the floor.

I'm somewhat interested in what the "other sports besides basketball" that NDSU might want to have in the Fargodome. Wrestling against a Big 10 opponent would qualify, but what else???

Also of note, if the BSA remodel is slated at between $8MM and $16MM for renovation, what all are they going to do?


wrestling against anybody will be a poorly attended event, if you get more than 2,000 i'd be absolutely stunned

i was at the iowa-iowa state match earlier this year, one of the best attended duals in the nation, and i don't think they broke three grand

the dome would be empty

tony
09-10-2004, 09:43 PM
Did Inniger say something about other sports beyond basketball? If NDSU buys a modular track, the FargoDome would work pretty good for a track meet... heck it'd be a cool place to have the state indoor too.

The only other sports I can think of that would work in the Dome are volleyball, tennis, and equestrian... and those last two would require a bit of setup.

Bisonguy
09-10-2004, 09:48 PM
There was something about "sports other than basketbal in the Fargodomel' mentioned somewhere- could have been Inniger on the radio (don't think so), one of The Forum articles(maybe), or one of the Fargdome committee members on the news last night (most likely)-

I just remember my ears perking up after that. ;D

IowaBison
09-10-2004, 09:55 PM
I think it would work for bball if the crowd was large enough

heck with $16 million bucks what couldn't you do in the Dome?

NDSU_grad
09-10-2004, 10:44 PM
I heard last year part of the BSA remodel plan is to have permanent seating enclose the floor.

I'm somewhat interested in what the "other sports besides basketball" that NDSU might want to have in the Fargodome. Wrestling against a Big 10 opponent would qualify, but what else???

Also of note, if the BSA remodel is slated at between $8MM and $16MM for renovation, what all are they going to do?


That's one thing that's always bothered me about the proposed remodel of the BSA, that being there's no plans for what the remodeled BSA will look like. I think it might be easier to get donations if you could show people what the refurbished building looks like.

roadwarrior
09-10-2004, 11:09 PM
NDSU has not yet publicly started the fund drive for the BSA and other projects. I am pretty sure more than one variation of what needs to be done to the BSA has been discussed. One of the reasons NDSU is trying to get an answer from the Fargodome regarding football facilities is to finalize the plans for the BSA. I have heard that they will have a presentation of the plans when the fund drive starts publicly.

bisonranch
09-10-2004, 11:33 PM
In the past they've said they'd remodel the BSA in the short term and build a new arena later. Is there any discussion on how long the renovations will be useful and when a new arena will be built? Maybe a new arena will be considered after the DI move has gone well and that ice sport with sticks is being pondered? All this is since the arena attached to the Fargodome got voted down in '00.

TheBisonator
09-10-2004, 11:55 PM
Here's what I think should be done:

Phase 1: Tear down all remaining parts of Dacotah Field and the tennis courts (including former grandstand space), and build on the site a massive multi-million dollar world-class athletic facility which will have an indoor football field with a FieldTurf or SpinTurf surface, new football locker rooms and equipment room, 8-10 basketball courts w/ curtains, a ground-level indoor track, an above-head walking track, new athletic offices, new indoor tennis courts, a volleyball gym seating 2,000, a new wrestling room, new expanded training facilities, a large weight room, a new 50-meter swinnimg pool and diving pool, raquetball courts, an indoor batting cage, and a 5,000 square-foot space for the new NDSU Athletics hall of fame.

Phase 2: Completely gut out all the innards from the BSA. And then inside of it, build a new 10,000 seat two-decked octagonal-shaped arena bowl featuring numerous locker rooms for basketball and other sports, a rotating LED overhead video/scoreboard like the one at the Ralph in GF, LED fascia-ring chaser boards around the bottom of the upper deck, and then reclad the exterior of the BSA in brick and glass windows. The arena will have 15-20 suites and around 1,000 Club/VIP Alumni seats. Also expand the front of the BSA to include an atrium lobby.

The bad news is that this whole project could easily cost $100-120 million.

Bisonfan1234
09-11-2004, 12:17 AM
To be honest, if the BSA gets new exterior and new seating, it could work just fine as a bball arena for many more years.

I think another important thing that they want to redo in the BSA is the HVAC system and general maintance.

The one thing I really like is the idea of an NDSU hall-of-game gallery/foyer type enterence to a venue, probably the fargodome.

Bisonguy
09-11-2004, 12:43 AM
To be honest, if the BSA gets new exterior and new seating, it could work just fine as a bball arena for many more years.

True- An expansion to the west might help for practice facilities and maybe some office space for the coaches.


I think another important thing that they want to redo in the BSA is the HVAC system and general maintance.

New sound system/PA and scoreboard with video would be the first thing I would change in the interior.



The one thing I really like is the idea of an NDSU hall-of-game gallery/foyer type enterence to a venue, probably the fargodome.


Like the one in the west concourse of the Fargodome?

I'm glad to see the Fargodome and NDSU taking steps forward on all this mess. Possibly the reluctance on finalizing BSA plans was caused by the fact the Fargodome was still talking about a small event venue within the last year or so. Inniger was talking about how the BSA doesn't want to compete with the Fargodome. :-/ Maybe the small event/BB arena idea might not even be dead yet......

Bison_Kent
09-11-2004, 01:18 AM
Another possibilly is to get rid of the old Fieldhouse and use that area for a new arena.

I am one that thinks the ice sport may be in NDSU's future. If other I-AA football playing schools can play hockey (like Maine, New Hampshire, Colgate and more), why can't NDSU do the same?

First though, lets get the BSA upgraded to be DI and still use the FargoDome for the big attendence games. Remember, NDSU has the Dome for 20 dates. Six will be football and one will be graduation so that leaves 13 dates open for NDSU to use.

Bisonfan1234
09-11-2004, 01:44 AM
I really can't understand why NDSU would even think about adding hockey.

It's SO expensive!

Bisonguy
09-11-2004, 02:31 AM
I really can't understand why NDSU would even think about adding hockey.

It's SO expensive!

Especially when you factor in the Title IX implications.

I'd much rather see the money that would be spent to start up a hockey program to go towards improving basketball or a sport that doesn't have such high operating costs.

NDSU is starting up a lacrosse club team this year. The operating costs for lacrosse can't possibly be as high as hockey, and could be a possibility. Lacrosse could easily have a home in the Fabulous Fargodome (no major facility costs involved.

Bisonfan1234
09-11-2004, 04:00 AM
I also believe there is no fan base in Fargo for hockey.

There really isn't onei n GF either, they just have such a good team and such an amazing arena that supply creates demand.

That sort of situation will never happen in Fargo sans a $120 donation.

Bisonguy
09-11-2004, 04:34 AM
There's a hockey fan base that is starting to develop, as UND grads keep moving to the "Big City" of Fargo(while NDSU grads move to the Big City of Minneapolis). Whether or not they would turn face and attend a Bison hockey game is another question. The dismal support for the Ice Sharks and the soon-to-be defunct FM Jets is proof that the time still isn't right for NDSU hockey.

I would prefer investing more into BB. There's more money that could be returned on that investment.

bisonranch
09-12-2004, 03:50 AM
I would prefer investing more into BB. There's more money that could be returned on that investment.

I definately agree with that. A good BB team can put us on the map more than any other sport.

WYOBISONMAN
09-12-2004, 03:20 PM
One of the problems with tearing down Dacotah Field may be where the Fargo high schools would play. There would need to be options for them. (And some of us old guys from the 80's hate to see Dacotah Field go.)

Bisonfan1234
09-12-2004, 03:55 PM
So far, no one is proposing that the actual field be destroyed.

As far as I know, every single high school in the Fargo area has their own stadium. With that said, I'm continuously baffled as to why any school would play in the Fargodome when they have to pay to play there and they lose their home field advantage. I simply don't understand.

All I can think is that the city of Fargo is trying to show NDSU that they don't own the dome.

Bisonguy
09-12-2004, 06:04 PM
North and South had new stadiums built within the last five years. I'm pretty sure Shanley has a brand new stadium, as they have a brand new school down by 52nd ave. south. North, South, and Shanley each get one home game in the Fargodome.

I fear for any HS team that would play on Dacotah's turf now. It was bad enough in the late 80's/early 90's. Can't imagine what another 10-15 years would do to it. Tear it down, put up an expansion of the BSA to the west, and build a 60 yard indoor practice facility. Dacotah is a shell of it's former glory. If it still was intact I might have reservations, but it's not so get out the bulldozers.

Bisonfan1234
09-12-2004, 06:47 PM
I don't think any (costly) expansions are needed.

The BSA just needs a new exterior and new seats for bball.

The field itself at Dacotah obviously has to be upgraded. Throw a bubble over it so that teams can practice on it in the winter.

The old Dahotah stands need to go.

The space where the old home stands were can be turned into parking. Basically, expanding the R, and F lots all the way over.

The space where the old visitor stands are can either be turned into parking or a new football building can be constructed there if the Dome isn't going to cooperate.

Speaking of the dome, why do each of the high schools get one home game there? What are they doing/trying to prove and to whom?

It's not as if playing at the dome is some huge upgrade over their home fields.

Bisonguy
09-12-2004, 07:42 PM
I don't think any (costly) expansions are needed.

The BSA just needs a new exterior and new seats for bball.

The field itself at Dacotah obviously has to be upgraded. Throw a bubble over it so that teams can practice on it in the winter.

The old Dahotah stands need to go.

The space where the old home stands were can be turned into parking. Basically, expanding the R, and F lots all the way over.

The space where the old visitor stands are can either be turned into parking or a new football building can be constructed there if the Dome isn't going to cooperate.

Speaking of the dome, why do each of the high schools get one home game there? What are they doing/trying to prove and to whom?

It's not as if playing at the dome is some huge upgrade over their home fields.

The BSA also needs a new soundsystem and videoboards. Other sports need more area.

It's a big deal to the kids playing. Usually it's the bigger games for the HS's- North/South or South/Shanley this year. Also helps draw out the casual HS football fan.

When we got to play at Dacotah for one game in eighth grade, it sure as heck was a big deal to all involved. In HS it wasn't as big of a deal, as we didn't have a true home field at South.

It's kinda like Pitt State and NWMS playing in Arrowhead Stadium. Most of the kids will only have that one shot to play in that stadium, and that's it. The only other time they will set foot in there is if they buy a ticket. Same with the Fargodome.

JBB
09-12-2004, 07:51 PM
One of the reasons the high schools play one in the FFD is because its the only way a football team from grand forks can get into North Dakotas Premier Football Venue. Its a huge upgrade for the high schools. A game in the big time under the lights inside the Fabulous Fargo Dome.

JBB
09-12-2004, 08:34 PM
I think you will see NDSU football outside in a 20,000 - 30,000 seat stadium within 15 yrs. NDSU may or may not add hockey.

If the Fargo Dome makes the necessary investments in the facility NDSU may be able to start hockey after football moves. These investments have to be made by the city for the benefit of the community. NDSU will pay for it by playing hockey there.

I think the BSA is a separate issue, but right now Fargo desperately needs an 8 - 10,000 seat facility. It should be financed in the fashion of the FFD. NDSU basketball can pay for it, but Fargo would benefit tremendously.

This project would fit perfectly in the time frame of the NDSU move up and football growing to the point its busting out of the FFD. I would suggest putting it on the site of old Dacotah field because the parking and street infrastructure is already in place.

Bisonfan1234
09-12-2004, 09:10 PM
Bisonguy,
A new sound system and board is a good, cheap upgrade as well.

However, what extra space is needed? Bball and vball can practice on th BSA court (as I expect that will be the gameday facility for all three) and can also practice in the bunker.

JBB,
You think a facility that will be 10000 seats larger than the Dome is going to fit on the Dacotah site?

Where will the $60-70 million to pay for this stadium come from? That may even be an underestimate since UMN is building a 50000 seat stadium for $220 million.

What about $30 million for an 8000 seat arena?

That's $100 million in just new venues.

Bisonguy
09-12-2004, 09:35 PM
BSA court should have permanent seating, making practice a near impossiblilty because of the limited size of one BB court. A practice area should be built that has maybe, four full size BB practice courts with some bleacher seating (retractable for more practice space)and a track area. This way BB,VB, track, etc. alll have an area to practice in without beating up the new, improved BSA main arena court.

The problem of FB office space and locker rooms if the Fargodome doesn't house them also would be a concern to add to the BSA.

Bisonfan1234
09-12-2004, 10:56 PM
Obviously three teams can't practice on one court at the same time. Luckily, there are 24 hours in a day.

The BBFH has two full sized courts. So really, all three teams could practice at the same time.

Don't worry about the court, it's resurfaced every year.

A modular track can be set up on either the Dacotah Bubble or the Dome.

I simply see no need to do a costly expansion at this time when we have adequate space for our teams.

The only thing that might be worthwhile at looking into in terms of expansion is an on campus indoor tennis facility. I'd like to see how a contract with courts plus would work out first to see if it would be worth it to build one.

kchats
09-13-2004, 12:34 AM
Fargo won't let the Bison play football anywhere but the dome. It was built partly for that purpose. As the dome begins to struggle to get good concerts and fill out its schedule they will begin to realize that NDSU has them over a barrel and they will do what NDSU asks of them.

WYOBISONMAN
09-13-2004, 07:47 AM
I know that eventually Dacotah Field has to go.......just too many memories from Saturdays long ago there.... :-[

JBB
09-13-2004, 12:41 PM
Bisonguy,
A new sound system and board is a good, cheap upgrade as well.

However, what extra space is needed? Bball and vball can practice on th BSA court (as I expect that will be the gameday facility for all three) and can also practice in the bunker.

JBB,
You think a facility that will be 10000 seats larger than the Dome is going to fit on the Dacotah site?

Where will the $60-70 million to pay for this stadium come from? That may even be an underestimate since UMN is building a 50000 seat stadium for $220 million.

What about $30 million for an 8000 seat arena?

That's $100 million in just new venues.

the football field will have to be someplace else, probably west of the technical park. *The arena will be built in the area of Dacotah field.

The money comes from the half cent sales tax just like the FFD. *this plan is nothing new, the Dome authority has talked about it. *The facility is something the city desperately needs. * with free land and a major tenant to pay the rent you would think it would happen?

the BISON will move outside into a new, larger stadium within 10-15 yrs. *If the FFD is no longer large enough the city would be wise to find a new tenant. *It might be hockey or BB or both.

roadwarrior
09-13-2004, 01:48 PM
The half cent sales tax expires in a few years. The Fargo voters will never pass another tax to build facilities for NDSU. And the land west of the tech park is right in line with the main runway of Hector, so nothing can be built there. As I have said before, the Bison will be playing football in the Fargodome for decades to come. As for basketball, I think that the BSA will get a major upgrade and if needed some games may be played at the dome.

Bisonfan1234
09-13-2004, 02:46 PM
I think roadwarrior is right.

A half cent tax only paid for $50 million for the Dome, I don't think they'd approve a cent tax for $100million for a new stadium.

IowaBison
09-13-2004, 02:52 PM
a football only stadium would never fly here in fargo, they had enough trouble selling the proposed dome which is multipurpose, even though it's primary tenant was the Bison

when they tried to fund the hockey arena, which also would have been multipurpose, it failed mainly because it was seen as a NDSU project and public sentiment had changed


a proposal to build a football only stadium would fail horribly,

however, i don't think they'd have to raise the tax, just use it, it's generated far more money than forecasters thought it would

Herd_Mentality
09-13-2004, 04:09 PM
I'll throw my 2 cents in on this. It just bothers me that the new head cheese of the dome is NOT a supporter of Bison football. Rob played for MSUM and he's never liked NDSU football after he had a run-in with Rocky early in his career at the Dome. I've never seen him give up his grudge against the Bison...which doesn't sit well with me.

IowaBison
09-13-2004, 04:12 PM
i don't know the situation first hand, but after my discussion with someone who does know, it sounded the Erv was making most of the stink himself

on an unrelated note, Moorhead sucks this year

JBB
09-13-2004, 04:13 PM
Maybe you can tell me what will happen when NDSU has outgrown the Fabulous Fargo Dome? Attendance already has a good chance of making the 15,000/game average after only 1 yr. in DI-AA.

Anyway, I disagree with the assumption we will be in the Fargo Dome for decades, I believe the Dome Authority has the resources to build an Arena and I believe the BISON will be playing outside in a 20,000 - 30,000 seat stadium.

Bison7925
09-13-2004, 05:10 PM
My opinion for what it's worth 8)

1. Remodel the BSA for track, conditioning, swimming etc.

2. Build an 6500-8000 seat stadium for basketball, wrestling, VB on old Dakota Field. This can be done similar to the Taylor center in Mankato.

The stadium only idea would cost a fraction of what it would cost to remodel the BSA and enclose the floor.

Bisonfan1234
09-13-2004, 05:12 PM
Even if NDSU averages 19000 for 10 years, the dome still holds 19000.

There would have to be huge public pressure from people who can't get tickets because there aren't enough seats.

Not going to happen.

As far as Moorhead State is concerned, I don't understand why they still have football? They are just horrible and are in the red financially every year. Why don't they simply drop football and focus on their other, much more competitive sports?

roadwarrior
09-14-2004, 02:16 AM
What resources does the Fargodome authority have to build a new arena? From what was stated a few days ago, they dont have the cash on hand right now to remodel the basement for Bison Football lockers and meeting rooms.

Bisonguy
09-14-2004, 02:45 AM
From what I've heard from the media, the Fargodome is willing to pay for the locker rooms, but just make NDSU pay more for rent. They just need to know exactly what NDSU wants, and then can find out what the bill would be. Of course, if NDSU wants to pay for the construction of the locker room construction, the rent would be less (that's from Piepkorn during the special meeting). Another gentleman stated that the Fargodome has funds in accounts available for "structural improvements" and something else that I can't remember. :-/ The concrete overhangs over the entrances are and example of what the structural improvement fund is used for.

There was talk a while back that the Fargodome did not need a vote to build a small-event venue if they saw the need to build one.

bison_baseball
09-21-2004, 10:56 PM
People keep talking about there being enough room right now for our sports in the BSA, but you really have no clue to how bad it is unless you've been an athlete at SU. It gets a little old when you have to practice at 6am, because basketball has a game that night. Don't get my wrong, practice that early is ok and out of the way for the day but when you have to share to BSA with ROTC and soccer, it sucks. You have to watch where you are throwing or running, cause you may run into some dude in really short shorts. Then there's the evening practices, where you can't begin anything until basketball is done. And by the time Amy gets done with her girls, you've already got the open rec people trying to get on the court. Oh, did I mention our foreign population at SU that just get on the track and start running. Sure it's funny to watch Mitch chase them down and explain they can't be here but that also gets old.
Dacotah needs to go, and they need to bring a west wing out of the BSA. There needs to be more locker rooms for all sports. The BSA court can be used for Wrestling, Volleyball and basketball. While baseball/softball facilities can be in the new west wing, along with soccer. A new track can be placed in the Dome, SU needs to step up and use the Dome for more than just Football. If we can consolidate teams into the BSA, then the Bentson can be changed over to a open rec facility.

NDSU_grad
09-21-2004, 11:19 PM
I've posted this quite a few times, but rambling incessantly has never stopped me before so...
I say if we're going to spend 15 million remodeling the BSA we should build a new arena next to the Fargodome. *Alot of the infrastructure (parking, access, utilities, etc.) is already taken care of. *It should be a multipurpose type arena that can host concerts, boat shows, etc. that the Fargodome is too big for. *Men's and women's bball gets exclusive use of the court for practice and games, but other than that let the Fargodome people manage it and pimp it out to whoever wants to use it. *
Phase 2 would call for a remodel of the BSA to accomodate wrestling, volleyball, and track and field.
Phase 3 would call for an indoor facility built where Dacotah Field is that soccer, baseball, softball, and of course football could use.
Also, I think racquetball and basketball courts are planned for the wellness center, no? That would help out with the space concern at the BSA.

Edit: Of course this time it will be nice to not have :o :o :o :o "remind" me that the Fargodome is an indoor practice facility for Bison athletics.

roadwarrior
09-22-2004, 12:51 AM
I dont think the City of Fargo is going to be involved in a new basketball arena. Look at how much trouble it has been trying to get them to remodel an unused area in the basement of the Fargodome for use by the football team.

Whether its a makeover for the BSA or an addition that houses basketball, all of the infrastructure is there for an NDSU owned facility.

IowaBison
09-22-2004, 01:49 PM
I've posted this quite a few times, but rambling incessantly has never stopped me before so...
I say if we're going to spend 15 million remodeling the BSA we should build a new arena next to the Fargodome. *Alot of the infrastructure (parking, access, utilities, etc.) is already taken care of. *It should be a multipurpose type arena that can host concerts, boat shows, etc. that the Fargodome is too big for. *Men's and women's bball gets exclusive use of the court for practice and games, but other than that let the Fargodome people manage it and pimp it out to whoever wants to use it. *
Phase 2 would call for a remodel of the BSA to accomodate wrestling, volleyball, and track and field. *
Phase 3 would call for an indoor facility built where Dacotah Field is that soccer, baseball, softball, and of course football could use.
Also, I think racquetball and basketball courts are planned for the wellness center, no? *That would help out with the space concern at the BSA.

Edit: *Of course this time it will be nice to not have *:o :o :o :o "remind" me that the Fargodome is an indoor practice facility for Bison athletics.


not a bad idea, NDSU_grad, but pimping ain't easy

tony
10-20-2004, 06:39 AM
In the past they've said they'd remodel the BSA in the short term and build a new arena later. *Is there any discussion on how long the renovations will be useful and when a new arena will be built? *Maybe a new arena will be considered after the DI move has gone well and that ice sport with sticks is being pondered? *All this is since the arena attached to the Fargodome got voted down in '00.

Well after Irv's cryptic comments about NDSU having to look beyond the FargoDome for other sports, the suspicion that he might have been talking about hockey popped into my head during the Nicholls State game... now this new article from the Forum comes out and I decide to search the board and, lo and behold, bisonranch (and probably a whole bunch of other people) thought of it three weeks before.

Fargo Forum: $75M complex in works By Mary Jo Almquist, Andrea Domaskin and Gerry Gilmour. (http://new.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=73053&section=news)

If this thing needs a sales tax, it probably has about a 1% chance of passing unless they are the best salesmen since... well, the best salesmen ever.

Proposing this arena is going to provoke a reaction among the UND faithful very similar to that produced by running an electric current through a steel cage full of squirrel monkeys - it ain't going to be pretty.

IowaBison
10-20-2004, 01:50 PM
maybe the city of grand forks will pass a bond issue to fund a $75 million dollar development downtown :)

not a hockey fan, but just imagine what an arena for hockey/basketball/etc. would do to downtown fargo

BisonMav
10-20-2004, 02:00 PM
Sounds like it is being built for today's needs, not the needs for 10 years from now. 8000 seats is small IMO for 10 years from now.

JBB
10-20-2004, 04:03 PM
8.000 seats will serve well for years to come. It doesnt have to plan for growth. We already have the 20,000 seater in place as the Fabulous Fargo Dome. I thought the FFD authority was sounding a bit tentative about this, not relishing the competition. It was also interesting that they had talked to NDSU about this arena and were told that we wouldnt be interested any time soon, NDSU has no hockey plans and doesnt want to play BB there.

IowaBison
10-20-2004, 04:13 PM
i also didn't realize they want taxpayer money for it, and we're not interested in playing basketball there?

that being the case... screw 'em

JBB
10-20-2004, 05:28 PM
If Im not mistaken this site was going to be used for an 8 story high rise condominum/office/retail complex. They must be floating ideas until something sticks.

TheBisonator
10-20-2004, 07:40 PM
Don't get too caught up in the taxes thing. The city commission will do everything they can to force CityScapes to cut the taxpayer financing part out of the plan.

Besides, history has shown us that in these type of situations, the more pivate development that's involved, the better chance there is of the thing ultimately succeeding.

tony
10-20-2004, 08:28 PM
Oh, I think NDSU may have hockey plans... it's just not short term stuff.

No dog in this fight for me but I don't think downtown arenas revitalize downtowns... having people move down there does. If no people live in a city center, the place gets creepy and deserted on the weekends just like Minneapolis and St. Paul do. Another thing that makes city centers hum is foot traffic... and in my experience, folks in Fargo would cut off their legs and use them for food before using them to walk to a destination :)

However, that is not an attractive piece of real estate. (http://new.in-forum.com/gfx/photos/full/200410201020arena.jpg).

Bisonguy
10-20-2004, 09:32 PM
Not a bad idea for downtown.

(*CAUTION*- Extreme Sarcasm Follows:)

It would be even better if they could get a hotel with a large waterpark to build next to the arena. Preferrably one that's owned by a company from another country, so none of the profits are realized in the local economy. Even better if the city of Fargo could give them some huge tax incentives, free land, and free money for advertising. That would make downtown a tourist destination.

I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.


Maybe this is just a diversionary tactic to make a Fargodome arena seem more appealling. *???

roadwarrior
10-20-2004, 09:46 PM
It doesnt look like the developers of this project are counting on NDSU to help them get it realized, and that's good, because I dont believe for a minute that the BISON would ever play in an off-campus location for any sport. (well, maybe tennis)

TheBisonator
10-21-2004, 01:26 AM
Not a bad idea for downtown.

(*CAUTION*- Extreme Sarcasm Follows:)

It would be even better if they could get a hotel with a large waterpark to build next to the arena. Preferrably one that's owned by a company from another country, so none of the profits are realized in the local economy. Even better if the city of Fargo could give them some huge tax incentives, free land, and free money for advertising. That would make downtown a tourist destination.

I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.


Maybe this is just a diversionary tactic to make a Fargodome arena seem more appealling. *???

Nice use of UND logic there, Bisonguy!!! ;) ;) ;)

Tatanka
10-21-2004, 03:07 AM
Indeed, quite humorous. Only because it's true about 75 miles north...

mikelsch
10-21-2004, 04:00 PM
Why the heck would F-M need an 8000 seat hockey arena, especially if NDSU has no plans on starting up a program? Like the tax payers are going to support this. F-M need an 8000 seat BASKETBALL arena for NDSU basketball, other high profile games (state HS tourneys, NBA exhibitions, etc).

JBB
10-21-2004, 04:52 PM
NDSU has no stated plans for hockey, but indeed, if an arena were built it might make it easier. *Having the arena downtown is on campus, kind of, because NDSU has a downtown campus. *

The high schools have gotten on board and will use the facility if built for games and tournaments. *The pro team is excited about it too. The development includes condos and retail which sould help the downtown population grow and keep the city active even on non event days and weekends. *I say rip that block up and build it. *ill buy a condo.

bisonranch
10-21-2004, 06:50 PM
I really don't think there's any point to building this arena unless NDSU is involved. No other events consistently draw spectators in Fargo. The Beez were a flop and the hockey team isn't real big is it? They won't have the success like the BBall and hockey teams in Bismarck where there isn't a big college to compete against. Getting NDSU to play off campus is another matter. If it is built with out NDSU, the BSA will be remodeled in the future and there will be 2 areas of similar size in town. If Fargo wants another arena they should work with NDSU to replace the BSA.

mikelsch
10-21-2004, 10:12 PM
Bisonranch, you are exactly right. Fargo doesn't have enough tenants to warrant two 8000 seat arenas. Fargo fans are fruggle with their support, and will never go hog wild for Semi-Pro teams (except the Redhawks). It would be like building another football arena in Fargo. It is time for the City of Fargo and NDSU to work together and develop a nice arena for BBall and other events that are too small for the dome.

JBB
10-22-2004, 12:17 AM
Im on board with BisonRanch too, but NDSU might just be happy with the BSA and any potential remodel costs. *I also think the RedHawks do well iin a large part because of the stadium, too bad it isnt bigger they are saying. *Same with hockey and basketball, better arena more successful franchises.

If this is directed toward hockey it probably wont be that good for basketball anyway. *Hockey and concerts I guess. *BB will have to be developed by the school..

Siouxpreme
10-22-2004, 04:40 AM
Proposing this arena is going to provoke a reaction among the UND faithful very similar to that produced by running an electric current through a steel cage full of squirrel monkeys - it ain't going to be pretty.

Spoken like a true Bison fan who still hasn't come to grips with the jealous feelings toward his northern neighbor's arena. Don't continue denying your Arena envy! :o :o :o The day Ralph announced the new arena must have been shere hell around here. ;D ;D ;D

MinotBison
10-22-2004, 04:51 AM
The word you were looking for was sheer, not shere.

But given where you apparently went to school, I will give you a break. ;D ;D ;D

IowaBison
10-22-2004, 02:18 PM
Spoken like a true Bison fan who still hasn't come to grips with the jealous feelings toward his northern neighbor's arena. *Don't continue denying your Arena envy! * *:o :o :o *The day Ralph announced the new arena must have been shere hell around here. * *;D ;D ;D



you're so right, I remember think, God I wish NDSU had a hockey arena?

JBB
10-22-2004, 03:11 PM
This arena will put a very large hurt on the concert business at the hilarious and ralph. this arena will be about the same size located in a larger population base, it will attract the state high school hockey tournament, it will support a pro team and it will compliment the Fargo Dome by leaving it open for properly scaled events. It may also force the Fargo Dome to look on NDSU as the benevolent benefactor more than they do now so this is good for NDSU as well.

mikelsch
10-22-2004, 03:49 PM
I, for one, am not jealous of the Ralph. North Dakota deserves a great Division I hockey program. But at the same time, North Dakota also deserves the full array of Division I athletics. UND can have its hockey and NDSU can have all the other Division I sports. Personally, I will take DI across the board over just one sport.

D
10-22-2004, 03:59 PM
it will support a pro team and it will compliment the Fargo Dome by leaving it open for properly scaled events*.

Congrats to Fargoans on the new pro hockey franchise!!!!!!!! Must be a recent development.

tony
10-22-2004, 04:12 PM
Siouxpreme, I don't have arena envy, that's a myth Ryan Bakken came up with to make UND fans feel better. When NDSU gets a hockey team, that would be the time to be jealous. However, I've been kind of surprised that the proposal hasn't caused more of a stir in UND-land, except with a few diehards. It's been kind of disappointing; I was kind of expecting a press conference from somebody at UND listing all the reasons they wouldn't support an arena in downtown Grand Forks :)

MRBISON
10-22-2004, 06:50 PM
Siouxpreme.....talk about "typical" statements being made......every time a Sue fan wants to chime in, he or she says the same thing "we have a nice hockey rink, so NDSU must be jealous"..... wasn't the Alerus built AFTER the FargoDome...sounds like UND was envious and tried to compensate by building a second rate facility to go along with their second rate (DII) football team. .....

Newman outdoor field makes your Kraft field look like a little league facility. The BSA is comparable to the Betty Engelstad arena except the BSA holds more people...I could go on about our track complex, and wrestling complex but I don't think UND even has a track complex and they don't have a wrestling team so I think you get the point.

NDSU facilities are nicer across the board with the exception of Ralph Engelstad arena...which no Bison fan disputes is a very nice hockey facility. So this notion of envy is ridiculous.

Herd_Mentality
10-22-2004, 07:37 PM
I think it's great that we can live in a world that a town like Grand Forks can find a way to have a place like Sensory Overload Arena.

UND92
10-22-2004, 08:34 PM
Siouxpreme, I don't have arena envy, that's a myth Ryan Bakken came up with to make UND fans feel better. When NDSU gets a hockey team, that would be the time to be jealous. However, I've been kind of surprised that the proposal hasn't caused more of a stir in UND-land, except with a few diehards. It's been kind of disappointing; I was kind of expecting a press conference from somebody at UND listing all the reasons they wouldn't support an arena in downtown Grand Forks :)

And I expect a press conference when coach BOHL goes to the bathroom. What do you have one or two press conferences a week. I don't know where you keep giving UND crap about a press conference. We had one big one to announce our schedule and the opening of the new BETTY, oh ya, also to annouce the biggest news in the state, that UND will not be playing NDSU. I think that is desrving of a press conference. The bison have so many of them you can't keep up with them. Why don't you just wait and have a big one when you play FLORIDA and USC in football in a couple of years.

Bisonguy
10-22-2004, 08:43 PM
And I expect a press conference when coach BOHL goes to the bathroom. *What do you have one or two press conferences a week. *I don't know where you keep giving UND crap about a press conference. *We had one big one to announce our schedule and the opening of the new BETTY, oh ya, also to annouce the biggest news in the state, that UND will not be playing NDSU. *I think that is desrving of a press conference. *The bison have so many of them you can't keep up with them. *Why don't you just wait and have a big one when you play FLORIDA and USC in football in a couple of years. *

Don't forget the press conference that UND was staying in DII. ::)

DIBISON
10-23-2004, 06:19 AM
I'm sure NDSU will have a "major"press conference within the next year or two to announce that Minnesota, Kansas St., or Iowa St. are on their football schedule.

BisonMav
10-23-2004, 01:13 PM
I haven't noticed whether und* has had press conferences or not. I-AA all the way!!!!

Swaghook
10-23-2004, 02:37 PM
Only if we can get our scholarships up. They need to have at least 60 (I'm pretty sure of) before a D-I team will play a D-IAA team and then they can only play one game every four years against D-IAA teams.

Bisonguy
10-23-2004, 02:49 PM
Only if we can get our scholarships up. *They need to have at least 60 (I'm pretty sure of) before a D-I team will play a D-IAA team and then they can only play one game every four years against D-IAA teams.

The one in four rule and averaging 60 grants over 3 years is a requirement if the I-A team wants the game to count for bowl eligibility.

A I-A can play a I-AA whenever they want to(Kansas State was good at loading up I-AA teams), especially if they will have enough wins for a bowl game.

If the Gophers keep up their downward trend, they might want to get NDSU on the schedule ASAP, just so they can get another win.

DIBISON
10-24-2004, 05:39 AM
Scholarships will not be an issue. NDSU is at 54 1/2 for 2004 and will be at 63 for 2005 and 2006. So we will be at the needed 3 year average of 60 for the 2007 season. Bison football will have a big-time DI football opponent on the 2007 schedule.

Bisonguy
10-24-2004, 05:54 AM
Scholarships will not be an issue. *NDSU is at 54 1/2 for 2004 and will be at 63 for 2005 and 2006. *So we will be at the needed 3 year average of 60 for the 2007 season. *Bison football will have a big-time DI football opponent on the 2007 schedule.

Very true, but the Gophers have been rumored as considering NDSU for 2005.

IowaBison
10-25-2004, 01:31 AM
I think we might see a game in 2005...

the gophers are good, they'll definitely win the minimum 6 DI games

there will be at least 10,000 NDSU/other fans that the U won't see if they schedule Toledo.

wfduck
11-17-2004, 09:30 PM
there was a story somehwere about the Gophs using a iaa victory this year, to meet there 6 wins criteria. but that can only be done once every 3 years...which doesnt bode well for NDSU

IowaBison
11-17-2004, 11:23 PM
thanks for subtlely bringing up the fact that I don't know squat about football :)