So which conference would be best

[tony]

What are the pluses and minuses of the Big Sky and Gateway.

I'll just start out.

Big Sky (plus): good conference, NDSU has natural rivals in the Montana schools, almost everybody has friends or relatives near one or more Big Sky schools.
Big Sky (minus): lots of travel, don't recruit that area

Gateway (plus): another good conference, would be good for recruiting Wisconsin, still would be able to get Montana schools on the schedule
Gateway (minus): just as much travel, football only, no rivals there.

[Bisonguy]

I think the Big Sky is the be best choice for NDSU. There was talk today by WDAY and The Forum sports guys that there might be a push for UCD,NDSU,UNC, and SDSU to fill out the Big Sky on WDAY-AM. That would put a big hurt on the guys north of Fargo, seeing as the Big Sky would be full. Supposedly, the Big Sky is getting a LOT friendlier to NDSU, now that their intent has been declared.

Does recruiting region make that much difference in a conference? Couldn't NDSU recruit from ND, SD, MN, CO, WI, pick up some players that overlooked NDSU before, and be in a conference *that mainly recruits from the west coast?

Are there any other conferences to consider?
How about the Ohio Valley?
The teams are pretty much in the same geographic region as the Gateway, and aren't just a football only conf.

[NDSU_grad]

I think either conference would be great. I'm just afraid we'll be left with the Mid-Continent and then be independent for football. I personally would prefer the Big Sky unless we could also get into the MVC for non-football sports (don't see that happening, though).

[Bisonguy]

How's this for a scenario-NDSU, UNC, UCD, and SDSU join the Big Sky. Two divisions- UM, MSU, NDSU, SDSU,ISU, and UNC, call that one divison. The other comprised of UCD,EWU, PSU, SSU, NAU, and WSU.
That would keep travel costs down.

[BisonInTexas]

I definitely think the Big Sky is the way to go and that is the way it will end up. I like the idea of 2 divisions, if they can get the other two NCC schools to commit, although Montana and Montana State may not like the arrangement. It seems like they would be losing some closer foes and be stuck with the new kids. Doesn't Cal Davis already have a conference arrangement for their non-football sports? I thought I read that somewhere.

[Star2City]

On this and other boards, NDSU supporters have been speaking of the Big Sky Conference as if it is the ultimate in a conference. ??? Having lived in Idaho, I believe this really deserves a closer look. In the 80’s, the Big Sky had a lot more stature and apparent stability than it does now. In the 90’s, Nevada, Boise State, and Idaho all left for Division I-A football and the ‘glory’ of the Big West conference. These defections took the heart out of rivalries, academic standards, and media attention, and it never really has been the same. Montana and Montana State are both good solid schools in IAA academically and athletically. Idaho State is a very distant third in Idaho as far as sports interest and academics. Even in its home of Pocatello, which is heavily Mormon, the school has difficulty interesting it own citizens, many of whom are infatuated with every move BYU makes. Weber State is an overgrown teacher’s college, but a good basketball school with high support. Its media attention is limited to Ogden. Eastern Washington U. is like Southwest (MN) St. only bigger, but must compete with Washington State for fan support. Spokane fans are concerned with WSU and Gonzaga, not EWU. Northern Arizona is almost the only state school option in Arizona to ASU and UA. With Arizona’s fast growth and money, its academics and athletics should only get stronger. The three most recent additions from Division II were all added because the Big Sky was enticed by West Coast media market size, not by natural region rivalries, academics or athletic programs. Portland State is a commuter school that normally generates little excitement in Portland, and must compete for fan attention with UO, OSU, and Portland U (in Bball). Sacramento State is a real athletic department project, with potential. The addition of Cal State-Northridge (representing the San Fernando Valley / L. A. media market) was a royal fiasco, as it dropped football and then had to drop out of the conference. Portland State and Sacramento State are only using the Big Sky until they get to the IA level in another conference (failing that they will drop football). Southern Utah desperately wants into the Big Sky, but Weber State especially snubs their nose at them and has opposed their addition. Eventually SUU (Cedar City is growing incredibly fast) and Northern Colorado will be granted admission, leaving the Mid-Continent Conference. (Northern Colorado has no concerns about conference affiliation.) UC-Davis, which is highly rated academically, would be a real plus for the Big Sky, but Sacramento State probably would resist their addition for now. As an added note, the Big Sky is not interested in any school unless you bring in a medium-sized media market or are within 100 miles of Interstate-15, even if your academics / athletic program are at an equal or greater level. If the NCC is the I-29 Conference, the Big Sky is the I-15 Conference. In most academic aspects, with all due respect to Montana schools, the NCC is, on average, at a higher level. This contradicts the goals set by NDSU’s president. ;)

[Bisonguy]

UCD supposedly has an invitation form the Big West for non-football sports.

[Guest]

Is this a minus for the Big Sky? NDSU would have to add both men's and women's tennis since the Big Sky is an all-sports conference.

[Bisonguy]

Why would they have to have tennis? und doesn't have a NCC wrestling team, but they're allowed in the NCC.

[tony]

I thought this was cool:

Alumni Map (http://www.ndsualumni.com/Maps/National/webmap.htm).

I think looking at this map, that NDSU is more of a western university than an eastern one so the Sky might hold more interest for our alumni than the Gateway.

[Guest]

Why would they have to have tennis? und doesn't have a NCC wrestling team, but they're allowed in the NCC.

The Big Sky might work differently than the NCC. When they added Northridge, they told them they had to add a tennis team.

[NDSU_grad]

If NDSU joined the Big Sky, what would happen to women's softball, baseball, and wrestling. To my knowledge, the Big Sky doesn't sponsor these sports (I could be wrong, I didn't check the Big Sky site). Would we compete as an independent in these sports, or drop them and add others?

[Guest]

You can have extra sports in the Big Sky, but the Gateway/Missouri Valley gets a plus on this because they have all NDSU's sports and more.

[Star2City]

It looks like Bison Alumni will need to be writing some big fat checks for the next few years to keep the athletic department running. ;D The AD at UNI, NDSU's most natural ally in the Gateway and Missouri Valley Conferences, is not at all optimistic that NDSU will be extended an invitation for football or other sports. So what is left? Big Sky (already said no). Horizon (giving NDSU no consideration). Ohio Valley (expanding into Alabama, not North Dakota). The only real option is the Mid-Continent, which does not have football. The Mid-Continent is perhaps the least desireable conference of all Division 1 conferences. Most of its schools would jump at the chance of getting out of it.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforksherald/sports/4077975.htm

[Guest]

Gotta love UND people. Keep hoping for the worst for NDSU because that is the only way you can feel good about UND.

[jimdahl]

Gotta love UND people. Keep hoping for the worst for NDSU because that is the only way you can feel good about UND.

I don't know, I feel pretty good about UND because of it's own successes. Of course, I don't wish NDSU ill either.

I think UND fans are very interested in this issue because NDSU's move has big implications for UND. That said, I'm critical of NDSU's move not because I wish NDSU ill, but because it looks to me like it was railroaded through by an ambitious president who wanted to be remember for doing something big (already tried to bring D-I hockey to NDSU but failed because that required a taxpayer vote).

NDSU pledged that they absolutely would not move without a conference affiliation. Yet today there's no conference affiliation in sight. This could all change, but Big Sky has specifically stated they're not interested, and the above link indicates some hesitation by Gateway. The other poster listed a lot of the options that don't seem likely anymore. What does that leave? I don't think the average fan is really going to be that excited about NDSU joining Mid-Continent.

As a UND fan, I try to examine the positives AND negatives and of NDSU's move to form opinions of what UND should be doing. Since NDSU has already made the decision, I think a lot of the potential risks are being swept under the table.

[Star2City]

Gotta love UND people. Keep hoping for the worst for NDSU because that is the only way you can feel good about UND

Please address the subject with facts. *The State of North Dakota needs every one of its state institutions to be successful. *It also needs citizens that are capable of asking serious questions. * When those questions have been answered satisfactorily, give the leadership the support necessary for success. *Without a meaningful conference affiliation, the NDSU Division I decision can be financial and morale setback to NDSU and to the state. *Success takes some planning, not just boosterism and blind ambition. *Leadership in NCC schools are mature enough to recognize a Division I transition will be an extremely difficult road. *Thirteen years to any potential *NCAA men’s basketball bid? *That in itself should cause anyone serious reflection. *Most basketball programs would implode by that time. *That road has to be paved with alumni or state dollars. *Believing anything else is deception.

[tony]

Why do you think the Herald is running these stories? It seems like they are trying to mold public opinion with some transparently slanted journalism, but to what end? I have a feeling you know what they're trying to do.

NDSU has two full years to find a conference. The Gateway, according to their commissioner, would like to add a ninth team so that each school gets four home games and four away games. The Herald didn't mention this.

As for the Big Sky, in the Herald's research they neglected to mention that Wanless has only been on the job for a couple weeks and cannot possibly be speaking for the Big Sky. Not only that, there is a pretty good chance that Sacramento State will be joining the Big West.

[Star2City]

The Gateway, according to their commissioner, would like to add a ninth team so that each school gets four home games and four away games. The Herald didn't mention this.

It has been stated that NDSU is waiting one year to start the Division I transition so more time is available for another NCC school (SDSU / UND ) to commit to the Division I. *By having a travel partner, NDSU’s acceptance into a conference will supposedly be made easier. *Yet you now state that the Gateway Conference is looking for only one more member, and the candidate is NDSU (even with four years of Div I-AA probation in football). *Please be consistent in your logic. *Why would SDSU or UND join NDSU in the Mid-Continent, when their *football programs would be left out of the Gateway? *


Why do you think the Herald is running these stories? It seems like they are trying to mold public opinion with some transparently slanted journalism, but to what end? I have a feeling you know what they're trying to do.


Perhaps the Herald is just revealing NDSU’s Division I decision for what it is: *a major bet by NDSU that political and peer pressure will force other NCC institutions to Division I. *Why did the Forum remove their chat room on the NDSU decision. *Is it possible that too much negative information was revealed on that chat room? *Is it possible that the FORUM and NDSU leadership want to ‘mold’ public opinion? *Never! * *;) ;D


As for the Big Sky, in the Herald's research they neglected to mention that Wanless has only been on the job for a couple weeks and cannot possibly be speaking for the Big Sky. Not only that, there is a pretty good chance that Sacramento State will be joining the Big West.


Even if Terry Wanless has only been at Sac State for a short time, his opinion is especially meaningful when it comes to Big Sky expansion. *If just one other AD/President says no, forget it. * ;) *By the way, unless Sac State drops football, they would never consider the Big West.

[tony]

Hey, I'm not trying to be confrontational. Having two NCC teams move up at once would help NDSU get into some conferences but not others. It helps with the Big Sky, hurts with Gateway. I'm not sure about the Missouri Valley. Having two teams move up gives NDSU the opportunity to explore more options. So, yeah, having SDSU move up at the same time will help NDSU find a conference.

Sac State will join the Big West even if they don't have football - just like UC Davis is going to do. The reduced travel expense alone makes it very tempting.

[jimdahl]

Why do you think the Herald is running these stories? It seems like they are trying to mold public opinion with some transparently slanted journalism, but to what end? I have a feeling you know what they're trying to do.


I think you'll find a large number of UND fans (certainly a majority of those I chat/message/email online) disagree with a lot of the Herald's sports editorials. I agree that the Herald certainly seems to be trying to shape public opinion against NDSU's move.

I presume that the goal of that is to forestall the inevitable pressure on UND to follow NDSU until we've seen how NDSU actually fares.

Since I strongly favor UND moving only if it's with a large group of NCC members, I think waiting is exactly the wrong thing to do. Once NDSU and UNC are gone and have found their own D-IAA conference affiliations, it's going to be that much tougher for UND to decide to move and find a home.

[tony]

Hey, Jim, thanks for the viewpoint. If the Herald is running these op-ed pieces in order to persuade people that UND should remain in DI, why aren't their articles *focusing on the problems UND would have going DI rather than focusing on NDSU? I can only assume that the Herald has an editorial policy that precludes them saying that UND would have trouble going DI because they think that printing anything even vaguely negative about UND would damage the town and its university so they've decided to approach the subject obliquely by making NDSU the subject of their articles.

Changing NDAC to NDSU, building the FargoDome, going DI. Three different issues - same response from Grand Forks and UND.

[BisonInTexas]

It looks like Bison Alumni will need to be writing some big fat checks for the next few years to keep the athletic department running. * ;D *The AD at UNI, NDSU's most natural ally in the Gateway and Missouri Valley Conferences, is not at all optimistic that NDSU will be extended an invitation for football or other sports. *So what is left? *Big Sky (already said no). *Horizon (giving NDSU no consideration). *Ohio Valley (expanding into Alabama, not North Dakota). *The only real option is the Mid-Continent, which does not have football. *The Mid-Continent is perhaps the least desireable conference of all Division 1 conferences. *Most of its schools would jump at the chance of getting out of it.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforksherald/sports/4077975.htm

Virg Foss, now there is an unbiased reporter... ::)
Give me a break, he has been pulling hatchet jobs on NDSU for 25 years. *This is a big example of spreading FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, all using people with UND backgrounds as sources. *How transparent can you be? *This is just an attempt to justify the head-in-the-sand attitude by UND. I am not saying that it is going to be easy, but the Bison will find a conference to play in. *

I also find it humorous that the justification for not allowing NDSU in to the Gateway is that they are too good (heaven forbid that you would want to strengthen your conference!), and in the next paragraph they state that the DII athletes are not as good as DI athletes, so it will be tough to compete. *It is kind of like saying "I am not sure why NDSU can't make the jump, so I guess I will just throw out every possible reason into one article (never mind that they contradict themselves)."

Typical GF Herald BS. *How long until the Ryan Bakken editorial appears? *Keep that small town thinking and start thinking about those fall classics with Moorhead and Crookston.

Craig

[Guest]

good post BisonInTexas.

At the D1 press conference the NDSU administration reported a very positive and welcoming attitude from the D1 schools and conferences. This is in sharp contrast to what is being reported in grand forks.

Scheduling has already begun in both the Gateway and the Big Sky. There is a lot that hasnt been revealed about the conference issue. I think a lot more will be known when SDSU announces its intentions later this fall. I doubt very much that NDSU is moving ahead without a pretty good idea on how this is gong to be redolved. Its very obvious they havent been shooting from the hip.

Articles like this one may make some of the und fans feel better about themselves but it wont change the future. I think its very unlikely that NDSU will fail at this endevour.

Dr. Chapman is not trying to bolster his resume. To say that is to show a tremendous amount of disrespect and cynicism toward other decision makers at NDSU and to Dr. Chapman himself. Dr. Chapman did not make this decision. It was made by the athletic department, students and alumni. To make the statement is to reveal resentment toward NDSU's decision to move ahead.

A vote on hockey facilities can't be successful in Fargo because the und coalition combined with the normal anti sentiment toward these types of public expenditures make it almost impossible to overcoming the very high threshold of voter approval needed in Fargo. That became apparent after the last election. The dome authority and NDSU athletics will have to go it alone on this one too.

Und is very much afraid of whats happening in Fargo. Its another sign they are in the backwater of North Dakota. both Fargo and NDSU have unlimited futures. this is just another sign of the changes occuring in the State. The center of economics, culture and education are now in Fargo.

[jimdahl]

Hey, Jim, thanks for the viewpoint. If the Herald is running these op-ed pieces in order to persuade people that UND should remain in DI, why aren't their articles focusing on the problems UND would have going DI rather than focusing on NDSU? I can only assume that the Herald has an editorial policy that precludes them saying that UND would have trouble going DI because they think that printing anything even vaguely negative about UND would damage the town and its university so they've decided to approach the subject obliquely by making NDSU the subject of their articles.


If the Herald analyzed whether UND should be moving (as the rest of us are) then they would stand a chance of being quoted or having to change their position if UND did decide to move in the future. Pointing out the risks in NDSU's move is much less likely to get them in trouble in the future; if UND does move, then the Herald can say "We were right that NDSU moved too soon, but NOW is the right time to move, so UND will".



Changing NDAC to NDSU, building the FargoDome, going DI. Three different issues - same response from Grand Forks and UND.

Again, it may be a mistake to confuse what the Herald prints with the official viewpoint of Grand Forks or UND. Fine point, though -- how long after decrying the FargoDome as a potential disaster did it take before the Herald was running editorials demanding the new convention center (Alerus)? Only as long as it took to verify that the FargoDome was economically viable. I suspect the period before the Herald changes their mind on the D-I transition will be about the same (or shorter, if UND actually moves more quickly).

[BisonInTexas]

good post BisonInTexas.

At the D1 press conference the NDSU administration reported a very positive and welcoming attitude from the D1 schools and conferences. *This is in sharp contrast to what is being reported in grand forks. *

Scheduling has already begun in both the Gateway and the Big Sky. *There is a lot that hasnt been revealed about the conference issue. *I think a lot more will be known when SDSU announces its intentions later this fall. *I doubt very much that NDSU is moving ahead without a pretty good idea on how this is gong to be redolved. *Its very obvious they havent been shooting from the hip.

Articles like this one may make some of the und fans feel better about themselves but it wont change the future. *I think its very unlikely that NDSU will fail at this endevour.

Dr. Chapman is not trying to bolster his resume. To say that is to show a tremendous amount of disrespect and cynicism toward other decision makers at NDSU and to Dr. Chapman himself. *Dr. Chapman did not make this decision. *It was made by the athletic department, students and alumni. To make the statement is to reveal resentment toward NDSU's decision to move ahead.

A vote on hockey *facilities can't be successful in Fargo because the und coalition combined with the normal anti sentiment toward these types of public expenditures make it almost impossible to *overcoming the very high threshold of voter approval needed in Fargo. *That became apparent after the last election. *The dome authority and NDSU athletics will have to go it alone on this one too.

Und is very much afraid of whats happening in Fargo. *Its another sign they are in the backwater of North Dakota. *both Fargo and NDSU have unlimited futures. *this is just another sign of the changes occuring in the State. *The center of economics, culture and education are now in Fargo. *


JBB,
You are right, and this scares the hell out of Grand Forks and UND. Posts from Sioux boosters on this board calling the decision rash and "a major bet that political peer pressure will force other NCC institutions to Division I" are completely off base. NDSU announced it would begin investigating moving to DI, what, a year ago? They announced the decision basically a year early to give everyone in the NCC a heads up to evaluate their futures in DII. Do Sioux boosters think that UNC bowed to NDSU's political will? I hardly think so - they saw DII deteriorating as rapidly as the Bison did. That is another way that the article by the UND, er, Grand Forks Herald is so slanted - they make no mention of the alternative, which is an increasingly watered-down DII.

A university is only as good as the company it keeps and a schedule full of opponents from the Northern Sun Conference does not reflect well on any NCC institution. That trend is not going away, no matter how hard it is to move up. NDSU has carefully evaluated its options and is making its own future. If they have to show UND the way, so be it (and that really irks UND alumni).

Craig

[tony]

Since it seems likely that the GFH is going to be running these DI stories every Sunday for a while, what's the angle of this weekend's story going to be? Are there any other former UND employees they haven't interviewed yet?

[Star2City]

Perhaps the Greeley Tribune, UNC's hometown paper, would agree with the Grand Forks Herald? What are the chances that the Forum would ever have such an editorial? The probation years even in football have got to hurt chances of conference affiliation the first few years. My expectation was that the Big Sky would have taken them.

http://www.greeleytrib.com/article.php?sid=10347

[Star2City]

Und is very much afraid of whats happening in Fargo.

Perhaps the inverse is true. The following data must cause untold suffering to the NDSU/Fargo psyche, as UND hockey is attracting followers from all over the state:

NCAA D-1 Men's Ice Hockey € 2001-02 Attendance Leaders
Rk Team Total Dates Average
1 Wisconsin 236,140 20 11,807
2 North Dakota 194,745 17 11,456
3 Minnesota 220,698 22 10,032
4 Michigan St 206,565 21 9,836
5 Ohio State 156,184 18 8,677

That attendance alone is 50% more than all Bison sports events. The other universities on that list are even more aggravating.

[Star2City]

both Fargo and NDSU have unlimited futures. *this is just another sign of the changes occuring in the State. *The center of economics, culture and education are now in Fargo. *

As someone who was born in Fargo, I hope and pray that Fargo and NDSU have unlimited futures. *But the subsequent portion of the above quote, however true, suggest that a certain level of cockiness is part of that culture, and that is one trait that will result in poor decisions. *Columns like Mike McFeely's http://new.in-forum.com/articles/?id=17115 are entirely consistent with this culture. * If Fargo is such a hub, why would it even want UND as a rival, as Mr. McFeely hopes? *Eventually, NDSU will be successful in Div. -IAA football, but will it really be worth the cost? *Check out what an ill-timed NCAA football reclassification decision has done to the formerly proud athletic program at the University of Idaho. They only will have a conference because the Sunbelt is desperate for football members. Within two years, their
"rivals" will be Florida International, U of South Alabama, U of New Orleans, Ark-Little Rock, etc. Maybe the athletes will be forced to redeem their frequent flyer miles for the last road trip. ;D

[Guest]

D1 hockey is a minor sport. 11,500/game gets you #2 in the country. NDSU avg more than 12,500/game in D2 football. Hockey plays a lot of games. thats its only revenue advantage.

something similar will happen at NDSU for basketball. As the names on the marquee change the crowds will grow. With a realitivly low overhead it will be a great revenue producer.

It wasnt that many years ago that the und football program was formally proud. That was during the long 12 years. Things move in cycles. Fargo is not in Idaho.

Never in the history of the state has the difference in population and economy been greater between Fargo and Grand forks. This trend will continue. The growth at NDSU and in Fargo is why this is happening. Its not rash and its not cocky. I dont think D1 hockey is far behind. NDSU will want that revenue advantage as well.

[BisonInTexas]

Perhaps the Greeley Tribune, UNC's hometown paper, would agree with the Grand Forks Herald? *What are the chances that the Forum would ever have such an editorial? *The probation years even in football have got to hurt chances of conference affiliation the first few years. *My expectation was that the Big Sky would have taken them.

http://www.greeleytrib.com/article.php?sid=10347





First, I take issue with the fact that the author says the games are "as meaningless as NFL Preseason games". Ask the teams that they beat if they are meaningless. Ask the athletes after the game if it was meaningless. That was a slap in the face to all of the athletes at UNC.

Well, at least the Greeley Tribune printed it as an opinion piece on its own university rather than as a so-called "investigative report" on possible conference affiliation on its archrival in which Virg Foss calls all his old cronies from UND to get "the straight scoop" on NDSU's decision (I especially liked the gospel according to Wanless - didn't Ralph run him out of GF?). Boy, think of all the money the Athletic Department could have saved when they were investigating the move to DI for the past year. They could have just called Virg Foss! Why didn't they think of that sooner? I mean everyone knows that the Grand Forks Herald is eminently qualified in determining the success or failure of any school seeking to transition to DI. Are they going to do a piece on SDSU's chances next?

I understand your arguments, but citing the GF Herald article as proof damages your credibility and insults our intelligence.

Craig

[tony]

Just read the SiouxSports forums this morning - holy cow! I got kind of ticked off and I haven't even finished my first Mountain Dew this morning. I haven't seen such passive-aggressive behavior since my sister was in junior high. Be that as it may, I've seen two articles in the Forum very similar to the one in the Greeley Tribune - you can still read all the articles the Forum wrote about going DI. There was a more balanced approach to the stories in the Forum than there was in the Greeley paper.

Believe it or not, NDSU did two studies - despite strenuous objections from (guess who) that getting an outside opinion was a huge waste of money. NDSU also surveyed the alumni, the boosters, Fargo city leaders, faculty, and students. It's pretty safe to say that no university in the history of DII has done such a thorough analysis of the process. Every point that has been brought up by UND people has been looked at it in a more balanced, long term way by people who care a HELL OF A LOT about the long term future of NDSU.

Yeah, NDSU will need a conference. Thanks for mentioning it. I'm sure that now that NDSU has been given the heads up from you guys, they'll get right on the job. I'll keep you posted on any progress.

[Bisonguy]

Star2City,

Surely you must remember when UND only pulled in 3,000-4,000 a game for hockey. UND is also coming off a championship, and has a brand new stadium that everyone wants to check out. If UND has a couple more seasons like last year in hockey, the attendance numbers will plummet. Once the "new" factor of the Alerus and REA have worn off, attendance will drop. Last week's FB attendance for UND was pretty weak, considering they gave away tickets to the Grand Forks Air Force Base and Fargo Reserve.

[siouxrock]

What site are the sioux forums on? PLease tell me

[Guest]

UND Forums (http://www.siouxhockey.com/forums/)

[siouxrock]

My dad is the editor of teh sports page? WHat do u have agianst the herald? HIs name is Ryan Bakken

[Bisonguy]

What site are the sioux forums on? PLease tell me
::)Too funny! ;D

[Star2City]

If UND has a couple more seasons like last year in hockey, the attendance numbers will plummet.

The REA has brought the stature of the UND Hockey program to another level. *I don't believe the UND athletic department expects sellouts to continue indefinitely. *But I do believe there has been a fundamental cultural shift in how all North Dakotan's and Northwest Minnesotan's view UND's hockey program. *It is a big name program. *The effect on recruiting is unreal, and that means winning will be sustained. *Last year was just a retooling year after losing key players (and what better year to retool than when you have a new REA). *Sellouts may not continue, but the time of 3000-4000 fans/game and a lower division finish in the WCHA is realistically gone forever. *



something similar will happen at NDSU for basketball

With a new arena, a winning team, a stable conference, no NCAA probation, you've got a shot. *But where are the fans now?

2001-2002 Season Attendance
* * * * * * * * UND * * * * * * * * * * * *NDSU * * * *UND Margin
Hockey * 194,745 * *Hockey * * * * * 0 * * * *+194,745
MBB * * * * 57,850 * * MBB * * *38,070 * * * * + *19,780
WBB * * * *39,797 * * WBB * * *36,450 * * * *+ * *3,347
FB * * * * * *73,620 * * *FB * * * *60,575 * * * *+ *13,045

Totals * * 366,012 * * * * * * * *135,095 * * * *+ 230,917

(Above numbers don't include playoff games ;D )

Predicted 2002-2003 Season Attendance
* * * * * * * * * *UND * * * * * *NDSU * * * * * * * *UND Margin
MHockey *180,000 * * *MHockey * ** 0 * * * * +180,000
Whockey * *16,000 * * *Whockey * **0 * * * * + *16,000
MBB * * * * * *50,000 * * *MBB * * * * 40,000 * *+ *10,000
WBB * * * * * 40,000 * * *WBB * * * *37,000 * *+ * *3,000
FB * * * * * * **60,000 * * *FB * * * * * 75,000 * * - * 15,000

Totals * * * *346,000 * * * * * * * * *147,000 * *+ 189,000

By looking at these numbers, it is apparent that NDSU has 'got to do something'. *

[Bisonguy]

Star2City,

Points taken. I feel, however, the impact of REA is not as great as you make it to be. It helps as a recruiting tool, but UND has had a great tradition and rep in hockey before it was built.

[Guest]

Its very unlikely those attendance figures hold over time and certainly wont unfold that way this year.

NDSU only had 5 home football games last year and lost the Maine game. Und had 7. If Maine had come to town you could add 17-18,000 to the NDSU total.

In mens buckets you had the Kansas game, 20,000 fans if I remember correctly. If you take that game out of the equation attendance is about the same. The only real advatage und has is Hockey.

[Guest]

The Kansas at UND BB game had 13,000 in attendance.

D-I hockey may be a minor sport, but only the NCAA Ice Hockey and the NCAA Mens D-I BB tournament made money for the NCAA last year.

[BisonInTexas]

My dad is the editor of teh sports page? WHat do u have agianst the herald? HIs name is Ryan Bakken

I have nothing against the Herald. In fact, you could probably say they have the best 4 page sports section in America. ;D

Just don't expect objective reporting, especially on anything to do with NDSU.

Craig

[Guest]

My dad is the editor of teh sports page? WHat do u have agianst the herald? HIs name is Ryan Bakken

Ryan Bakken was a sports guy. He is now a columnist and news reporter. Kevin Fee is the sports editor at the GF Herald.

I believe you guys were baited and trolled by this poser.

[BisonInTexas]

Ryan Bakken was a sports guy. He is now a columnist and news reporter. Kevin Fee is the sports editor at the GF Herald.

I believe you guys were baited and trolled by this poser.


Thank god you came and pointed that out to us! We all thought he was simply a typical Sioux fan! ::)

[BisonInTexas]

2001-2002 Season Attendance
* * * * * * * * UND * * * * * * * * * * * *NDSU * * * *UND Margin
Hockey * 194,745 * *Hockey * * * * * 0 * * * *+194,745
MBB * * * * 57,850 * * MBB * * *38,070 * * * * + *19,780
WBB * * * *39,797 * * WBB * * *36,450 * * * *+ * *3,347
FB * * * * * *73,620 * * *FB * * * *60,575 * * * *+ *13,045

Totals * * 366,012 * * * * * * * *135,095 * * * *+ 230,917

(Above numbers don't include playoff games ;D )

Predicted 2002-2003 Season Attendance
* * * * * * * * * * * *UND * * * * * ** *NDSU * * * * * * * *UND Margin
MHockey *180,000 * * *MHockey * ** 0 * * * * +180,000
Whockey * *16,000 * * *Whockey * **0 * * * * + *16,000
MBB * * * * * *50,000 * * *MBB * * * * 40,000 * *+ *10,000
WBB * * * * * 40,000 * * *WBB * * * *37,000 * *+ * *3,000
FB * * * * * * **60,000 * * *FB * * * * * 75,000 * * - * 15,000

Totals * * * *346,000 * * * * * * * * *147,000 * *+ 189,000

By looking at these numbers, it is apparent that NDSU has 'got to do something'. *



Comparing attendance between UND and NDSU and including Hockey is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. The real issue is how much net gain UND is realizing from Hockey attendance that funds other sports. Yes it is great that UND has a profitable revenue stream from hockey, but hockey also comprises over half of the budget at UND if I recall Friendly Sioux Fan's numbers from another thread. How much of the revenue generated by hockey games goes right back into the hockey program? Or is Ralph funding the whole thing himself and everything from the program is gravy?

It would be interesting to see these numbers, but I fail to see how this affects NDSU's decision. Are you implying that NDSU must have hockey to be successful in DI/DI-AA?

Craig

[Guest]

"UND's current athletic budget is $5.8 million ($1.8 million of which is for hockey) per year; ..."

That's straight from the UND President's home page and dated February 21, 2002.

Now about conference (where this thread started), I'll through this out to you folks:

A conference is all about money (travel expense, the gate from traditional rivals to form a base budget):

Northern Iowa was an NCC member. They are in a FB conference (Gateway) and another conference (Missouri Valley?). They are having budget issues (tried to cut four programs, the Title IX folks only let them cut two). Travel to their old NCC haunts (bus) would have to be more cost effective than flying out to Indiana State and wherever else.

If (I said if), SDSU goes D-I, that will most likely force the hands of those in Vermillion and Grand Forks. (Agree or disagree, I suspect that is an economic reality for all concerned.) UNC has made the move already. UNC, NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, and UNI is six. There's a conference by NCAA bylaws.

Could it happen? Who knows. Would they be The New NCC (at D-IAA) and the other members jump to the MIAA or the NSIC? There's rumblings that St. Cloud and Mankato would go NSIC. UNO has stated interest in the MIAA.

Stranger yet, would a new NCC be folded into the Big Sky to become the Big Sky East Division, with the east of the Rockies teams folded in?

West: Eastern Wash, Sac. St., Portland St., No. Arizona, Northern Colorado, Weber St., Idaho St.

East: Montana, Montana St., UNI, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD.

Hey, this thread was all speculation anyway, right? :D

[Guest]

"UND's current athletic budget is $5.8 million ($1.8 million of which is for hockey) per year; ..."

That's straight from the UND President's home page and dated February 21, 2002.

Now about conference (where this thread started), I'll through this out to you folks:

A conference is all about money (travel expense, the gate from traditional rivals to form a base budget):

Northern Iowa was an NCC member. They are in a FB conference (Gateway) and another conference (Missouri Valley?). They are having budget issues (tried to cut four programs, the Title IX folks only let them cut two). Travel to their old NCC haunts (bus) would have to be more cost effective than flying out to Indiana State and wherever else.

If (I said if), SDSU goes D-I, that will most likely force the hands of those in Vermillion and Grand Forks. (Agree or disagree, I suspect that is an economic reality for all concerned.) UNC has made the move already. UNC, NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, and UNI is six. There's a conference by NCAA bylaws.

Could it happen? Who knows. Would they be The New NCC (at D-IAA) and the other members jump to the MIAA or the NSIC? There's rumblings that St. Cloud and Mankato would go NSIC. UNO has stated interest in the MIAA.

Stranger yet, would a new NCC be folded into the Big Sky to become the Big Sky East Division, with the east of the Rockies teams folded in?

West: Eastern Wash, Sac. St., Portland St., No. Arizona, Northern Colorado, Weber St., Idaho St.

East: Montana, Montana St., UNI, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD.

Hey, this thread was all speculation anyway, right? *:D


Third sentence down...........it's "throw" not "through" ....they're not even homophones

BTW, what happened to the other dyslexic sioux fan? Remember, the one who would randomly use lower case and capital letters in the same sentence......I would have to say, you sioux fans are an odd bunch.

[Guest]

Yeah, I saw that, but I'm not registered so I couldn't edit it. Figured it might slip by here. ;)

I was thinking about typing "throw a thought" there. My wires got crossed. We UND types can think faster than our hands can type. ;)

And that other poster? Geez, like Sioux fans take that seriously, much less you guys. Looks like you folks took the bait.

[siouxrock]

what do u even gain by movin up a level? U surely dont gani money or fan attendance according to Norht Iwoa in its firts years
the only thing u gain is that u cna be called d-1 school

[BisonInTexas]

"UND's current athletic budget is $5.8 million ($1.8 million of which is for hockey) per year; ..."

That's straight from the UND President's home page and dated February 21, 2002.



Thanks for straightening out my number (please forgive me for not consulting the UND president's home page ;)). *I re-read the thread that I was referring to and saw that there was some confusion over the upcoming women's hockey budget and that is what caused me to double the number.

So the hockey budget comprises just over 30% of the total, not 50%. *My question of how much the hockey program revenue supports other sports remains. *

I still fail to see how this is relevant to NDSU as it transitions to DI.

Craig

[Guest]

Put another way:

Based on what I read at
http://www.argusleader.com/sports/extra/sdsu_3.shtml
UND (outside of hockey) is spending what SDSU is spending for athletics ($4 million). USD is at $3.2 million.

How much does hockey fund at UND? A ballpark estimate (using last season): 11406 season tickets x ~$300 per = ~$3.4 million. Hockey costs $1.8 million.

Last year, hockey covers itself and supplies about $1.6 million, or roughly 40%, of the non-hockey budget.

[Guest]

I should register so I could edit. :-[

[siouxrock]

What do u gain by moving up a levl? certanily no championchips

[Star2City]

http://www.usd.edu/urelations/news/archives/2002/September/september24.html

I wonder if President Chapman and AD Gene Taylor are livid about this announcement? * *;) Their hope that other NCC schools move up is being shattered. *USD’s announcement has effectively stopped any further discussion of a domino theory breakdown of the NCC. *It also took a page out of NDSU’s book: *USD’s announcement was shrewd in that it places political pressure upon SDSU to stay Division II. *(Much as NDSU’s two year transition was intended to place political and peer pressure on UND.) *SDSU must really be having second thoughts about switching because it knows (1) its decision will have no effect on USD, (2) a revised NCC in Division I form is impossible at this time, (3) conference affililation will be even more difficult (try traveling to Brookings from Salt Lake or St. Louis) and they are witnessing no announcements from UNC and NDSU, (4) SDSU will be blamed for breaking the USD/SDSU rivalry, *(5) SDSU’s major ‘cash’ games are USD, (6) SDSU’s cash requirements to make the transition will now be approaching the worst case scenario, and (7) USD’s interest in implementing ‘more rigorous entrance requirements’ will further differentiate USD from SDSU from an academic standpoint. *If SDSU goes Division I, it will need all the students it can get. *Those student fees come in handy when paying an athletic budget.

It really appears that the USD Foundation stopped this train, not the USD leadership, whom before showed some interest in the change. *The release says: *


One of the University’s constituents has already stated its stand on this issue. The USD Foundation Trustees recently voted unanimously to remain in Division II and thus help to maintain the NCC. “As the Foundation provides significant funding to the University, its support is vital to our decision,” said Dahlin.


Bison fans, your transition costs are approaching worst case. *Are you ready to pay the bill? * ;D

[Bisonguy]

::)

Aaaaaarghhh!!!!

The sky is falling!!

The sky is falling!!!

[Guest]

Star2City: You're a jerk. . . .Idaho State is not a "distant 3rd", especially in academics!! Yes it is true that Idaho and Boise State Joined D1, but Idaho has struggled most of the time being D1. On what basis do you say that Idaho State is a Distant 3rd in academics?

[Trainer]

You've got that right Mark. There is no way that Idaho State is a distance third in academics. I earned my undergrad degree from State and feel I definitely received an outstanding education. That degree put me ahead of the game going into grad school at SU. So he must tell us how academics are a distant third. I also played football for Idaho State and I thought the support was awesome. We may not have attracted as many fans as other institutions but the support was fabulous. I'm definitely proud to be a Bengal and Bison supporter.

[tony]

I guess I might as well point out that the Grand Forks Herald's Ryan Bakken, in one of his paper's twenty or so opinion pieces on why NDSU shouldn't go DI, took some shots at Idaho State and Pocatello. Has Idaho State done something to tick of Grand Forks?

[Star2City]

Star2City: *You're a jerk. . . .

Mark Dalhquist, your school and influence would be better served with a different greeting! * ;)

The following is what I wrote about Idaho State and the Big Sky conference:


Idaho State is a very distant third in Idaho as far as sports interest and academics. *Even in its home of Pocatello, which is heavily Mormon, the school has difficulty interesting it own citizens, many of whom are infatuated with every move BYU makes. *

The point of that posting is that Big Sky Conference is not the conference it used to be after Boise St, Idaho, and Nevada left. *NDSU’s president has stated that he desires NDSU to be competing at a higher level among other similar academic (i.e. land grant and broad-based) schools. *Most conferences being suggested consist of regional schools, not state flagship schools. *With regards to Idaho State, unlike many state schools that have the state name followed by ‘State’, Idaho State is not a land grant university (i.e. NDSU, SDSU, Mont. St., Ore. St., Wash. St. etc.) nor does not have professional schools associated with it as is common at U of state schools (U Wash, U Iowa, U Utah, UND, etc.). *The U of Idaho has both of these roles. *Therefore, Idaho State is not as broad-based in its academic curriculum as many outsiders would imply from its name. *In its scope of academic curriculum and expenditures, I think you would agree that Idaho and Boise State exceeds Idaho State’s. *You are the ones that implied that meant Idaho State is a 3rd rate school. *That was never the intent of the statement, even if it was poorly worded. * In pharmacy, nursing, education, and certain natural sciences, ISU is an acknowledged leader. *

My basic point was and remains, the dividing line between Idaho allegiances seems to be much more Idaho and Boise State with Idaho State hardly in the equation. *Even in southeastern Idaho, outside of Pocatello and ISU grads, allegiances seemed to run mainly to BYU, with Idaho, Utah, Ricks JC and ISU getting lesser media attention. *For a school that has had good success in I-AA football in the '80s and even made it to the NCAA Elite Eight in basketball (and on the cover of SI), I was expecting the interest to be much higher. *Maybe now that BYU-Idaho (Ricks) has dropped sports, ISU will get more fan attention. *:)


As far as Ryan Bakken’s article, I take his point as Idaho State and NDSU are not natural rivals (unlike more natural rivals NDSU-Mont.St or NDSU-UMontana). *It would take time for fan interest to develop (both in Fargo and Pocatello) and that would hurt gate revenues until there is a rivalry.

[Guest]

With SDSU's apparent green light from the financial feasability to the student and faculty approval for the move I would say stars word crafting and railing against the inevitable is all wasted effort. In my opinion UCD, NDSU and SDSU are all goners.

The Bengals are just as much a natural rival to NDSU as is Augustana, SCSU and Mankato. These schools have a closer proximity but the case star made against the Bengals can be carried over to these institutions as well.

I think the fan base is there. The Bengals would draw the 10,250 Agi drew last week. I think they would be 15,000 plus just because they are new blood.

Eventually of course the big Midwestern Rivalry will become SDSU. UND will remain a game of intense regional interest as long as they are willing to play. NDSU will always leave a place on the schedule for them. I believe the same can be said for the USD/SDSU rivalry. If neither school wants to play the instate D1 rival they had better not attempt to schedule any other D1 games.

[tony]

I don't want to be a cheerleader for Division I but I disagree with Star2City, Idaho State would be a bigger draw than any NCC school except UND. Gate will not suffer because of which DI teams NDSU plays - it's more likely to suffer because of how NDSU plays, same in DI as in DII.

Just for fun, I think I'll rant now so you can stop reading if you don't have some time to kill:

Nobody can convince me that NDSU has a rivalry with any NCC school except UND. There is no expectant buzz like, "Omigosh, St. Cloud is coming to town, it's time to start all the St. Cloud Week festivities!" Nobody calls me and asks, "Hey, buddy, you coming back to Fargo? It's the big Augustana game you know." The only time people get fired up for NCC teams other than UND is when the other team is doing really well. Point is that Bison fans don't give a rip what the good people of Idaho think of Idaho State. They'd see the name, Idaho State. They'd see that we haven't played them for a long time. They'd see that they're DI. Heck, that's three reasons to go see them right there - three more reasons than there are for seeing Augustana - now or in the foreseeable future.

Ryan Bakken implied that nobody knew anything about Idaho State so there would be no excitement about playing them. That's BS. First off, hardly anybody is as unaware of the world outside Grand Forks as Bakken. Second, he compared Idaho State to South Dakota State - oops, the Jackrabbits look like they're going DI! Maybe he should have compared Idaho State to Moorhead, Crookston, Bemidji, Central Washington, or Mesa State. Sure, you can tell what town or village a UND opponent comes from (unlike Idaho State) because it's right there in the school's name most of the time. If it's not, you can at least tell what part of the state they come from. Seems to me that Bakken's ideal oppenent would be some school like the University of North by Northeast Missouri at Cudswallow Just Off I-35 Between the Wendy's and the Big Black, Blue, and Orange Fighting Skunkbadger Sign - that way you'd know their mascot, what its school colors are, and how to drive there. Of course, discerning UND fans like Star2City would demand to see the number of doctoral programs Skunkbadger U. offers and the results of a poll showing how the people of Missouri view NNEMo-Cudswallow in relation to the U of Missouri before deciding whether to attend the game - just like he did before the Crookston matchup this year.

One thing I do know is that NDSU won't be consulting "The Big Handbook of Recently Converted Convents, JUCOs and NAIA Schools Who Have Never Even Sniffed the Playoffs" to find opponents like UND does.

Consider this; who knew anything about Maine last year? I sure don't think it was all the non-Bison fans and even some beat writers who were saying, "Maine sucks, if NDSU doesn't beat them by four touchdowns, they might as well count it as a loss." Point is, Maine would have drawn the biggest gate in the conference last year.

[BisonInTexas]

Tony,

I loved your rant! ;D

I wish I would have read that Ryan Baaken article. Is it still online?

Craig

[tony]

The article is in their pay archives so I shouldn't give a link to it so I'll just summarize it for you.

Bakken gave eight reasons that NDSU's move to DI doesn't make sense to him. It was very similar in style to his columns called "Six Reasons The Daily Jumble Makes Me Frustrated and Angry" and "Three Reasons the Alerus Center was a Good Idea and the FargoDome was a Bad Idea."

Reasons 1,2,3,4,5,8: UND isn't doing it so NDSU shouldn't. He ineptly disguised these as concern that NDSU wouldn't do very well in DI, possibly ending civilization as we know it.

His Reason Six: "How many of you know the location and nickname of Idaho State? How about for South Dakota State?"

His Reason Seven: "Are you really willing to give up the rivalry with UND, the best rivalry in Division II, for being a bottom-feeder of Division I? Whenever UND and NDSU meet in the major sports, there's a buzz for a week before and after. Can Idaho State make you buzz - or even twitch? *UND would be foolish to play NDSU with its increased scholarships. And NDSU would be foolish to play UND with even the slightest chance of suffering an embarrassing loss. So, we all lose."

He ended his article with the dire pronouncement that "NDSU's Division I world is with Idaho State, the Bengals from Pocatello." * Oh no!

[The_Sicatoka]

With SDSU's apparent green light ....

Really? I don't see it on their pages at
http://www3.sdstate.edu/Athletics/

[siouxrock]

Ndsu is moving to D-1 cuz they wanna have a better chance of beating the sioux with more scholar ships
HA!!!
they still ownt beat ehm
lol

[Bisonguy]

Sicatoka,

Here's an article from SDSU's college paper, it looks remarkably similar to the press before NDSU made the announcement:

D1 move affordable
Oien says study shows SDSU can make enough
By Justin R. Lessman

An NCAA Division I market analysis proves that SDSU's athletic department can generate enough potential revenue to warrant a move to DI athletic competition, Athletic Director Fred Oien said.

Although the market analysis has not been officially released, Oien and other sources who have access to drafts of the report have begun disseminating results to university organizations.

The official report should be released within the next day or two.

When the official hard copy market report arrives in the mail, it will immediately be posted on the athletic department's Web site, he said. Follow the link at http://www.sdstate.edu.

Oien said the analysis, done by Conventions, Sports & Leisure, Inc. of Minneapolis, Minn., contained little that surprised him.

"The information in the report is basically what we thought," he said. "There are pockets of real strength for the move."

Oien said the study, which began last spring, was an analysis of the financial responsibilities that a move to DI would create.

"The study looked at the ability to generate revenue for a move to DI," Oien said. "It looked at what kind of an upgrade in budget dollars we would be looking at. Obviously, there is going to be more cost."

Oien said that the market analysis differs from the feasibility report done by Carr Sports Associates, Inc. last summer.

In the mean time, he has been hosting informational meetings with various governing organizations on campus.

Last week, Oien discussed the report and academic impacts of the possible move with the Academic Senate in a town hall meeting, as well as in an open-forum with students in the Student Union.

The Students' Association also heard from Oien.

SA President Dan Hansen said the senate put together a resolution proposing that they be in favor of the move. The resolution was passed at Monday night's SA meeting.

Hansen said that, while Oien was not able to release specific information to the SA, he did reveal numbers indicating a high level of student interest in the proposal.

"Fred was overwhelmingly surprised by the number of students who said they were willing to pay higher student fees for the move to DI," said Hansen.

The survey asked students if they would be willing to take a fee increase of $25, $50, or $100.

"Of course, as the amounts increased, the percentage of students in favor of the additional charge decreased, but the numbers were still substantial," Hansen said.

Hansen said that, like the Academic Senate, when all the information is in, the SA would present its recommendation to the on-campus DI Leadership Team that will relay the information to SDSU President Peggy Miller.

President Miller has final say in the matter, Hansen said.

Student Association Senator Joe Sullivan said he got the impression from Oien that the move was "very feasible."

Sullivan said, although early projections indicated that, with the move, the athletic departmentís budget would increase, he felt the move was inevitable.

"We need to be there (DI)," he said. "That's the feeling I got out of it. We just need to be at that level."

The University of South Dakota on Thursday reported that its investigation into moving athletic programs to NCAA Division I is officially over and that the Coyotes are staying put.

[Star2City]

After reading the SDSU Collegian, I will have to admit to being surprised if NDSU does not have a Division I travel partner by the end of this month. *If SDSU does indeed jump, this would be a considerable (and needed) break for NDSU.

But I would also have to question why the SDSU’s athletic department has to leak out information piecemeal, if not for public relations and political reasons. * There may still be some hurdles out there that a non-SDSU insider would never know about. * After all, the vote ($$$$’s) of the USD Foundation not to support *Division I appeared to stop USD’s consideration, and this vote came out of the blue. *

When/if SDSU chooses to go Division I, it will be an end of an era for the NCC. *The backbone of the conference, UND, NDSU, USD, and SDSU, are like two sets of two brothers that are cousins. * The cousin that leaves will forever be estranged from the cousin staying. *The brothers will always be brothers, no matter how reluctantly.

[Star2City]

The Bengals are just as much a natural rival to NDSU as is Augustana, SCSU and Mankato

A rivalry is a rivalry only if both sides are interested. No one in Pocatello will be going “Omigosh, NDSU is coming to town, it's time to start all the NDSU Week festivities!" The only Division I schools that NDSU would cause a few eyebrows to be lifted would be Montana, Montana State, and perhaps Northern Iowa.

[Star2City]

You can tell what town or village a UND opponent comes from
Can Bison fans tell what town or village their new conference opponents are in? *Bison Conference Quiz:

Guessing all correct will entitle the winner to be a Bus Driver for the BISON Athletic Department!!! *;D

1. *What is in Macomb, Illinois? * 2. *What state is Cedar City in? * 3. *Is IUPUI, the leading university in the use of hypens, located in Fort Wayne, Bloomington, West Lafayette, or in Indianapolis? * *4. *Who are the Fighting Kangaroos? ( Clue: *Most Missourian’s don’t know, if you guess the University of North by Northwest Missouri at Cudswallow, you are darn close!!) *5. *If you are traveling to Oakland University, do you travel (a) I-29 South, (b) I-94 East, or (c) I-94 West? * 6. *What airport is most convenient to Valparaiso? *7. *Just how bad is the neighborhood around Chicago State that no Chicagoans even consider going to their games? *8. *The MidContinent Conference has (a) strong tradition, (b) great rivalries, (c) outstanding media attention, (d) tremendous fan backing, (e) none of the above. * ;)

[Star2City]

UND fans like Star2City would demand to see the number of doctoral programs Skunkbadger U. offers

No, I believe this is the position of President Chapman:
"Chapman, in a theme he has repeated for months, said athletics going Division I is part of a universitywide mandate for each department to find a higher level." (Fargo Forum, August 31) ;D

[Star2City]

Bakken gave eight reasons that NDSU's move to DI doesn't make sense to him.

I totally agree those reasons were not well thought out. (What is your opinion ‘siouxrock’? After all, under that bison robe, you are Bakken’s son. But you woulda thunk youd knowd your Dadda is no longer in the sportz deportment.)

There is an additional reason that NDSU should be concerned that is unrelated to money, conference affiliation, transition, facilities: Minnesota State - Moorhead. Before you laugh (which I somehow suspect you are) {why is it O.K. for this board to be disrepectful of ‘local’ schools like MSU-Moorhead, UM-Crookston, but any school that is far away, has got to be ‘good’, even if you are totally ignorant of it?}, consider the following:

1. NDSU had intended to add Division I hockey if they could have had their arena by the FargoDome funded by Fargo voters.
2. NDSU fully expected that they would be welcomed into the WCHA when they had their new arena and hockey program. (This would have been much more difficult than believed, as the WCHA is already ‘full’ and it would have had to add two teams.)
3. When the arena is rejected by Fargo voters, NDSU mysteriously drops pursuit of hockey as a Div. I sport, changes direction and decides to consider Division I/I-AA in all sports. (Very focused and staying with a plan there, shows institutional perserverance and character!)
4. NDSU shows no interest in the CHA, a Division I hockey conference of less established hockey schools that are paying their ‘dues’ in hockey. The CHA, which includes Bemidji State as a member, has a low barrier to entry from a facilities and monetary commitment standpoint.
5. After declaring their Division I intent, NDSU is still officially interested in hockey, but ‘later.’
6. The CHA would love to have another Division I school in Upper Midwest. (NDSU won the CHA’s endearing friendship, after all!).
7. Moorhead is a city that loves and supports hockey.

So, let’s see, in the year 2005, while NDSU is busy transitioning itself into Division I, MSU-Moorhead announces that it is joining the CHA for Division I hockey. Three years later, crowds are overflowing at the Moorhead Sports Center. The City of Moorhead / MSU decide to construct a 7000 seat arena. MSU-Moorhead hockey grows and is invited to NCAA playoffs in the year 2010 as the CHA champs. MSU-Moorhead becomes ‘the’ hockey team for Fargo-Moorhead to the absolute dismay of the NDSU athletic department. In the meantime, NDSU football is competitive but the men’s and women’s BB teams can’t recruit and go 4-26 and 7-23. Who is dominating the wintertime media in the F-M area? Just a nightmare maybe, but farfetched? After all, whether you like it or not, hockey is the only sport that this area provides significant competitive advantages on a national basis.

[tony]

S2C, man you just don't get it. You have said in the past that you wish NDSU all the best, then you clearly demonstrate that you're hoping that NDSU falls flat on its face.

Apparently my post went whooshing right over your head so I'll try to break it down into tiny UND-sized sentences for you.

One of my points was that Idaho State would be a better draw than any NCC or NSIC team other than UND despite Bakken's opposite viewpoint. Your comeback was that Idaho State fans wouldn't get excited about having NDSU come to town. Now just what in the heck does that have to do with anything?

I tried to make the point that the town a school is in or what their mascot is has NOTHING to do with whether or not people will get excited about a football game. Whoosh, you missed the point again and came back with a list of MidContinent schools. Is that what you're hoping for, that NDSU joins the Mid-Continent?

No idea where the joke was in your next post.

Then we get to the inevitable hockey post. Yes, you're completely on to us. Everything NDSU does is to compensate for not having hockey, just like everything UND grads do is to compensate for not having a college education. When NDSU first started talking about going DI back in the late 1970's, it was hockey we were thinking of. When we tried to get the rest of the conference interested in the 1980's it was hockey that made us do it. Division II losing almost all the schools like NDSU, cutting scholarships, screwing with the playoff structure, and getting flooded with ever smaller schools had nothing to do with anything.

[BisonInTexas]

There is an additional reason that NDSU should be concerned that is unrelated to money, conference affiliation, transition, facilities: *Minnesota State - Moorhead. *Before you laugh (which I somehow suspect you are) *{why is it O.K. for this board to be disrepectful of ‘local’ schools like MSU-Moorhead, UM-Crookston, but any school that is far away, has got to be ‘good’, even if you are totally ignorant of it?},

Ah, yes, these are MUCH better schools than Idaho State! Excuse me for not respecting the almighty academic powerhouse of Crookston, but I know people who got their degrees from Crookston in HVAC repair, for Christ's sake! ::)
After all of the railing against Idaho State being "a distant third" acadmically after Idaho and Boise State - where do you think Moorhead and Crookston rate in Minnesota academically? I would wager they don't even make the top 10!

Are you trying to justify the future, when UND is in the same conference with these schools? Because that is your future in DII. Hoping and wishing that NDSU fails is not going to change that.

Perhaps the DAC-10 will move up to DII and UND can play all of those schools. I mean, there are rivalries galore there and they are every bit as good as Minnesota - Crookston. Everyone knows where Minot, Mayville and Jamestown are. They even know the team mascots of these fine institutions. Bingo! Instant rivalry, right? Imagine those packed houses at the Alerus for homecoming against Mayville, or the Potato Bowl against the Jimmies of Jamestown college.

I think you need to step out of the Ralph once in a while and take a look around at your new neighborhood in DII. Do you like what you see? I don't think any non-hockey coach and UND does. I don't think Roger Thomas does, despite what he may tell the press.

I will also be interested in hearing your justification (and the UND administration's) when UND decides to move up to DI. It is only a matter of time and I will applaud the decision when it is made. NDSU will be waiting...

Craig

[The_Sicatoka]

Based on what the NCAA decides to do in 2004, all of this could be moot.

Let's face it. NDSU is upset that D-II is being watered down by UM-Crookston and MSU-Moorhead.

You can't tell me that the Ohio State's, Michigan's, Texas', UCLA's, and other large schools (with athletic budgets in the tens of millions of dollars) like seeing the same happen to their level. Are they going to stand idly by for much longer? Don't bet on it.

Stand by for 2004. It could be a bumpy ride. It wouldn't surprise me to see the power conferences lobby to have the minimums raised and raised a lot.

And about joking about "the number of doctoral programs": These still are Universities, aren't they? Or have they just become excuses for semi-professional athletics.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If I had the power to remove all athletics from all academic institutions tomorrow, I would. Period. (Yup, even my beloved Sioux hockey.) Too many times decisions are coming down in favor of athletics over academics. Separate them so there's never a conflict again. (Imagine how good the facilities at 'SU would look with an additional $2 million, the added cost of DI, in maintenance and upgrades each year. Think what Minnesota could do if they weren't constantly covering red ink in the athletic department.)

With no publicly subsidized athletics, natural market forces would fill the void in no time. I'm sure the Chicago Blackhawks (think: logo) would love to have a major junior franchise in Grand Forks to fill the void. Who knows what kind of minor league system for football (which the NCAA is today) could evolve. With a 20k seat house I'm sure someone would create a Fargo franchise.

Go ahead now and rip away. ;)

[Guest]

If you want to remove all athletics from universities, start with UND. If you want to worry about college athletics being an excuse for semi-pro athletics, start with the sport that actively recruits semi-pros. Good luck.

After twenty years you finally get it! NDSU fans are upset D2 getting watered down. That's not the only reason for the DI move but you are showing progress.

You even understand that NDSU is going DI no matter how many nightmare scenarios you dream up. Again, that's excellent.

So now you're hoping that UCLA and Michigan will look at NDSU and decide that they don't belong in DI and vote them out in 2004? You better stop fooling yourself before reality sneaks up and bitch slaps you. If you want a nightmare scenario, how about this: which do you think is more likely in 2004? Will DI put another moratorium on new members or will DI decides to vote out the 200 or so DI schools that are more like NDSU than Michigan?

[The_Sicatoka]

You missed my point completely. I said all from all.

Sure, the NCAA could do that too. But does North Carolina really like sharing all that TV revenue with South West Texas State.

What'll the NCAA do? Neither you nor I know. Pick the most illogical thing and that'll probably be close.

PS - I've said the best answer would have been to have the 'bigs' of the NCC go together and ask Northern Iowa and Minnesota-Duluth to join them in a new NCC.

[BisonInTexas]

Based on what the NCAA decides to do in 2004, all of this could be moot.

Let's face it. NDSU is upset that D-II is being watered down by UM-Crookston and MSU-Moorhead.

You can't tell me that the Ohio State's, Michigan's, Texas', UCLA's, and other large schools (with athletic budgets in the tens of millions of dollars) like seeing the same happen to their level. Are they going to stand idly by for much longer? Don't bet on it.

Stand by for 2004. It could be a bumpy ride. It wouldn't surprise me to see the power conferences lobby to have the minimums raised and raised a lot.

And about joking about "the number of doctoral programs": These still are Universities, aren't they? Or have they just become excuses for semi-professional athletics.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If I had the power to remove all athletics from all academic institutions tomorrow, I would. Period. (Yup, even my beloved Sioux hockey.) Too many times decisions are coming down in favor of athletics over academics. Separate them so there's never a conflict again. (Imagine how good the facilities at 'SU would look with an additional $2 million, the added cost of DI, in maintenance and upgrades each year. Think what Minnesota could do if they weren't constantly covering red ink in the athletic department.)

With no publicly subsidized athletics, natural market forces would fill the void in no time. I'm sure the Chicago Blackhawks (think: logo) would love to have a major junior franchise in Grand Forks to fill the void. Who knows what kind of minor league system for football (which the NCAA is today) could evolve. With a 20k seat house I'm sure someone would create a Fargo franchise.

Go ahead now and rip away. *;)

I agree that the Big DI schools are going to do something to prevent the smaller schools from moving up, but I don't think it is going to be by raising the minimums. They are soon going to be outnumbered by these small schools and not have the voting power to enact the changes (sounds suspiciously familiar to DII today...). The easier alternative? They are going to just form a super DI and set the minimums for entry to that division. They have already done this in football (the CFA - that's why we still have a screwed up bowl system to determine the mythical national champion). DI-AA would become a full division (not just FB). This would be a best case scenario for all NCC teams thinking of moving up. In essence, it would restore a lot of what DII was 30 years ago, except it would be called DI-AA.

Of course, this scenario is no more guaranteed than your scenario of raising the minimum requirements for DI. All NDSU can do to plan for the future is to play by today's rules, and that is what they based the feasibility study on. NDSU already knows it is going to be a bumpy ride - it's just that the destination is worth it.

Craig

[tony]

C'mon Sicatoka, there is no way that Northern Iowa is going to leave the Gateway/Missouri Valley so that it can join a new conference that doesn't get an automatic bid in basketball or football.

Why should NDSU, UNC, and SDSU wait longer than one year for the rest of the rest of the NCC to decide to go DI? The rest of the NCC has said over and over that they don't want anything to do with DI. Has something changed that I'm not aware of?

NDSU does want a DI NCC but they can't afford to wait any longer. The NCAA could have a big shake up soon and if NDSU isn't in DI before then, it might be years and years before they could make the jump.

Since you can always move down a division, Chapman has clearly put NDSU into the good position to deal with these future changes. That's exactly what he said two years ago too - the window of opportunity for going DI might be closing, while hockey could be added anytime there is enough interest.

[jimdahl]

NDSU does want a DI NCC but they can't afford to wait any longer. The NCAA could have a big shake up soon and if NDSU isn't in DI before then, it might be years and years before they could make the jump.

Since you can always move down a division, Chapman has clearly put NDSU into the good position to deal with these future changes. That's exactly what he said two years ago too - the window of opportunity for going DI might be closing, while hockey could be added anytime there is enough interest.


It would surprise me to have the NCAA decide that a moratorium on division changes is the right way to realign the divisions. That would assume that the status quo is the perfect layout.

It's true that we just came off a 2 year moratorium on new D-I members, but that was simply to give the NCAA time to put in place new transfer procedures. The NCAA has demonstrated that when they want to discourage climbing, they put severe restrictions on those who transfer.

Instead, a new division classification system complete with new requirements for membership in each division seems most likely. While it's true that the NCAA is unlikely to kick the small schools back down to D-II, it's quite likely that they'll split D-I into D-IA, D-IAA, and D-IAAA in all sports. Each subdivision would have different membership requirements. Sports like basketball could still have a cross-D-I tournament, but structure it to favor D-IA teams and award the majority of the revenue sharing to D-IA teams (the primary concern of the very large schools).

[Bisonguy]

Sicatoka,

I thought UND hockey was a minor-league Blackhawks team. At least before the new logo was released, it looked a lot like it. *;) UND is still Notre Dame's D2 football team, isn't it? :)

[The_Sicatoka]

Craig: A true "I-AA" in all sports would be a logical solution (ergo, the NCAA won't come near it ;) ). And yes, it would look like D-II in the years immediately after genesis (early 1970s).

tony: True, there would be no incentive for UNI to jump immediately, but afterwards that would solve some of their current (and formidable) budgetary issues by saving travel expenses.

And again, who knows what madness the NCAA will come up with in 2004. They could do anything from open the doors wide (go back to a pre-1973 model with no divisions, play who and what you will), to adding a division (possible, but unlikely due to costs and their prior statements), to creating "IAA" in activities besides football, to making minimum requirements for funding to play in a division, to basing your division status on enrollment. Who knows.

If the NCAA makes a radical change they would almost have to create an "open enrollment period" (no or little probation) for teams to adjust to a new system. That would be logical. (Oh, yeah, what'd I say about the NCAA and logic? ;) )

[The_Sicatoka]

bisonguy:

Blackhawks farm team? Based on old logo? Yup. Based on where guys have been headed lately it's more like a Carolina or Minnesota Wild farm team.

Notre Dame has the color scheme for the interlocked ND logo screwed up. I'll send them a memo. ;D

[tony]

Instead, a new division classification system complete with new requirements for membership in each division seems most likely. *While it's true that the NCAA is unlikely to kick the small schools back down to D-II, it's quite likely that they'll split D-I into D-IA, D-IAA, and D-IAAA in all sports. *Each subdivision would have different membership requirements. *Sports like basketball could still have a cross-D-I tournament, but structure it to favor D-IA teams and award the majority of the revenue sharing to D-IA teams (the primary concern of the very large schools).

Wow, that's never going to happen and if it did, then NDSU would be in the division it clearly belongs in anyway! The really big schools you are talking about are BCS teams. They are outnumbered at least 3 to 1 when it comes to voting. Run this theory by a DIAA guy so that he can have a good laugh too.

And Sicatoka, why don't you ask some Northern Iowa guys what they think about joining the NCC now that NDSU and UNC are gone, and SDSU is going?

Just hold off posting for a couple seconds and think about this question, "What point am I trying to make?" Once you remember, feel free to make your point - just make it a new thread.

[imported_admin]

Using the powers vested in me by me, I declare this topic locked.

I hope you UND fans don't take this the wrong way but I have a suggstion. Start a thread where the subject describes your point. Then write a message with arguments that support your point.

I know you guys have something you want to get off your chest but the more I read your posts the more I get confused as to what it is.

[Facts]

just perusing the bowels of BV... some of the quotes in this one are gold... It's amazing to see some of the scenarios that were laid out there... and then think about what really happened.

[tony]

And people think the Elf is Angry nowadays :)

In response to Bakken's assertion that nobody would be interested Bison athletics because they wouldn't know the town or mascot of some Big Sky opponents:

Sure, you can tell what town or village a UND opponent comes from (unlike Idaho State) because it's right there in the school's name most of the time. If it's not, you can at least tell what part of the state they come from.


Then we get to the inevitable hockey post. Yes, you're completely on to us. Everything NDSU does is to compensate for not having hockey, just like everything UND grads do is to compensate for not having a college education.

[tony]

Name the author:


As someone who was born in Fargo, I hope and pray that Fargo and NDSU have unlimited futures.

Please address the subject with facts.
The State of North Dakota needs every one of its state institutions to be successful.It also needs citizens that are capable of asking serious questions. When those questions have been answered satisfactorily, give the leadership the support necessary for success. Without a meaningful conference affiliation, the NDSU Division I decision can be financial and morale setback to NDSU and to the state. Success takes some planning, not just boosterism and blind ambition.
Leadership in NCC schools are mature enough to recognize a Division I transition will be an extremely difficult road. Thirteen years to any potential NCAA men’s basketball bid? That in itself should cause anyone serious reflection. Most basketball programs would implode by that time. That road has to be paved with alumni or state dollars. Believing anything else is deception.

Why would SDSU or UND join NDSU in the Mid-Continent, when their football programs would be left out of the Gateway?

Check out what an ill-timed NCAA football reclassification decision has done to the formerly proud athletic program at the University of Idaho.

On this and other boards, NDSU supporters have been speaking of the Big Sky Conference as if it is the ultimate in a conference. ??? Having lived in Idaho, I believe this really deserves a closer look. In the 80’s, the Big Sky had a lot more stature and apparent stability than it does now. In the 90’s, Nevada, Boise State, and Idaho all left for Division I-A football and the ‘glory’ of the Big West conference

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5040245568_57730cfd76.jpg

[MN_BISON]

Name the author:







http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5040245568_57730cfd76.jpg

Star2City, and here I thought he was Ryan Bakken but I'm pretty sure Bakken wasn't born in Fargo.

[NDSU1980]

Pretty funny stuff. A lot of the idiots from UND who argued against moving up are today on the SS proclaiming that 3 different conferences are vying for UND and it's UND's decision where to go. How delusional can some of these people get?

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think they are eating fuckin' mushrooms up at UND.....

[ISXBISON]

Pretty funny stuff. A lot of the idiots from UND who argued against moving up are today on the SS proclaiming that 3 different conferences are vying for UND and it's UND's decision where to go. How delusional can some of these people get?

Gotta be the DAC, GPAC, and maybe the Frontier or HAAC...they'd fit right in

[Facts]

Apparantly the BSC was the worst possible choice in 2002 (for NDSU)... but now that UND wants in... :rofl:

[NDSU_grad]

I heart this thread. I was the third one to post in it. Yeah I know, I'm awesome.

[TheBisonator]

star2city said back in Oct. 2002:


So, let’s see, in the year 2005, while NDSU is busy transitioning itself into Division I, MSU-Moorhead announces that it is joining the CHA for Division I hockey. Three years later, crowds are overflowing at the Moorhead Sports Center. The City of Moorhead / MSU decide to construct a 7000 seat arena. MSU-Moorhead hockey grows and is invited to NCAA playoffs in the year 2010 as the CHA champs. MSU-Moorhead becomes ‘the’ hockey team for Fargo-Moorhead to the absolute dismay of the NDSU athletic department. In the meantime, NDSU football is competitive but the men’s and women’s BB teams can’t recruit and go 4-26 and 7-23. Who is dominating the wintertime media in the F-M area? Just a nightmare maybe, but farfetched? After all, whether you like it or not, hockey is the only sport that this area provides significant competitive advantages on a national basis.

I couldn't pull a more wrong prediction out of my own feces.

[met1990]

I couldn't pull a more wrong prediction out of my own feces.

What the hell do you eat?! ;)

[Bison bison]

I think they are eating fuckin' mushrooms up at UND.....

please tell me more about these mushrooms...


//

[Leonardite]

I totally agree those reasons were not well thought out. (What is your opinion ‘siouxrock’? After all, under that bison robe, you are Bakken’s son. But you woulda thunk youd knowd your Dadda is no longer in the sportz deportment.)

There is an additional reason that NDSU should be concerned that is unrelated to money, conference affiliation, transition, facilities: Minnesota State - Moorhead. Before you laugh (which I somehow suspect you are) {why is it O.K. for this board to be disrepectful of ‘local’ schools like MSU-Moorhead, UM-Crookston, but any school that is far away, has got to be ‘good’, even if you are totally ignorant of it?}, consider the following:

1. NDSU had intended to add Division I hockey if they could have had their arena by the FargoDome funded by Fargo voters.
2. NDSU fully expected that they would be welcomed into the WCHA when they had their new arena and hockey program. (This would have been much more difficult than believed, as the WCHA is already ‘full’ and it would have had to add two teams.)
3. When the arena is rejected by Fargo voters, NDSU mysteriously drops pursuit of hockey as a Div. I sport, changes direction and decides to consider Division I/I-AA in all sports. (Very focused and staying with a plan there, shows institutional perserverance and character!)
4. NDSU shows no interest in the CHA, a Division I hockey conference of less established hockey schools that are paying their ‘dues’ in hockey. The CHA, which includes Bemidji State as a member, has a low barrier to entry from a facilities and monetary commitment standpoint.
5. After declaring their Division I intent, NDSU is still officially interested in hockey, but ‘later.’
6. The CHA would love to have another Division I school in Upper Midwest. (NDSU won the CHA’s endearing friendship, after all!).
7. Moorhead is a city that loves and supports hockey.

So, let’s see, in the year 2005, while NDSU is busy transitioning itself into Division I, MSU-Moorhead announces that it is joining the CHA for Division I hockey. Three years later, crowds are overflowing at the Moorhead Sports Center. The City of Moorhead / MSU decide to construct a 7000 seat arena. MSU-Moorhead hockey grows and is invited to NCAA playoffs in the year 2010 as the CHA champs. MSU-Moorhead becomes ‘the’ hockey team for Fargo-Moorhead to the absolute dismay of the NDSU athletic department. In the meantime, NDSU football is competitive but the men’s and women’s BB teams can’t recruit and go 4-26 and 7-23. Who is dominating the wintertime media in the F-M area? Just a nightmare maybe, but farfetched? After all, whether you like it or not, hockey is the only sport that this area provides significant competitive advantages on a national basis.

This is f'ing awesome.

[TheBisonator]

This is f'ing awesome.

He's a f**kin prophet, isn't he???:hide:

[99Bison]

Hahaha, delusion is a wonderful thing...

[56BISON73]

I totally agree those reasons were not well thought out. (What is your opinion ‘siouxrock’? After all, under that bison robe, you are Bakken’s son. But you woulda thunk youd knowd your Dadda is no longer in the sportz deportment.)

There is an additional reason that NDSU should be concerned that is unrelated to money, conference affiliation, transition, facilities: Minnesota State - Moorhead. Before you laugh (which I somehow suspect you are) {why is it O.K. for this board to be disrepectful of ‘local’ schools like MSU-Moorhead, UM-Crookston, but any school that is far away, has got to be ‘good’, even if you are totally ignorant of it?}, consider the following:

1. NDSU had intended to add Division I hockey if they could have had their arena by the FargoDome funded by Fargo voters.
2. NDSU fully expected that they would be welcomed into the WCHA when they had their new arena and hockey program. (This would have been much more difficult than believed, as the WCHA is already ‘full’ and it would have had to add two teams.)
3. When the arena is rejected by Fargo voters, NDSU mysteriously drops pursuit of hockey as a Div. I sport, changes direction and decides to consider Division I/I-AA in all sports. (Very focused and staying with a plan there, shows institutional perserverance and character!)
4. NDSU shows no interest in the CHA, a Division I hockey conference of less established hockey schools that are paying their ‘dues’ in hockey. The CHA, which includes Bemidji State as a member, has a low barrier to entry from a facilities and monetary commitment standpoint.
5. After declaring their Division I intent, NDSU is still officially interested in hockey, but ‘later.’
6. The CHA would love to have another Division I school in Upper Midwest. (NDSU won the CHA’s endearing friendship, after all!).
7. Moorhead is a city that loves and supports hockey.

So, let’s see, in the year 2005, while NDSU is busy transitioning itself into Division I, MSU-Moorhead announces that it is joining the CHA for Division I hockey. Three years later, crowds are overflowing at the Moorhead Sports Center. The City of Moorhead / MSU decide to construct a 7000 seat arena. MSU-Moorhead hockey grows and is invited to NCAA playoffs in the year 2010 as the CHA champs. MSU-Moorhead becomes ‘the’ hockey team for Fargo-Moorhead to the absolute dismay of the NDSU athletic department. In the meantime, NDSU football is competitive but the men’s and women’s BB teams can’t recruit and go 4-26 and 7-23. Who is dominating the wintertime media in the F-M area? Just a nightmare maybe, but farfetched? After all, whether you like it or not, hockey is the only sport that this area provides significant competitive advantages on a national basis.

All I can say is he must subscribe to "Better living through chemistry and pharmacology"

[IzzyFlexion]

All I can say is he must subscribe to "Better living through chemistry and pharmacology"

I think he just likes to hear himself type.

[missingnumber7]

Pretty funny stuff. A lot of the idiots from UND who argued against moving up are today on the SS proclaiming that 3 different conferences are vying for UND and it's UND's decision where to go. How delusional can some of these people get?

I think its awesome how the Foolum thinks that it is actually a choice for them to choose between the Big Sky or the Summit. Really...if the big sky is offering over the summit wouldn't you run for a conf that offers football too?

[bisonmike2]

Good for UND, jump at the Big Sky if it offers you. I originally liked the Big Sky for NDSU, but it really loses it's appeal if Montana and Montana State aren't going to be there. Battles with N Arizona, yawn. Sac. State, no thanks. Enjoy traveling to Washington one week, northern Cali the next and then Arizona after that. I'll take Norther Iowa, S. Illinois and SDSU any day. And the Big Sky might be a better b-ball league but who cares. They're in the same position as the Summit. They're only going to be sending 1 team to the tourney every year so it doesn't matter.

[Tatanka]

I think its awesome how the Foolum thinks that it is actually a choice for them to choose between the Big Sky or the Summit.

Does this surprise you? Hell no it doesn't. It's the usual spin from teh institution of fail up there in GF.

[DjKyRo]

Good for UND, jump at the Big Sky if it offers you. I originally liked the Big Sky for NDSU, but it really loses it's appeal if Montana and Montana State aren't going to be there. Battles with N Arizona, yawn. Sac. State, no thanks. Enjoy traveling to Washington one week, northern Cali the next and then Arizona after that. I'll take Norther Iowa, S. Illinois and SDSU any day. And the Big Sky might be a better b-ball league but who cares. They're in the same position as the Summit. They're only going to be sending 1 team to the tourney every year so it doesn't matter.

As if they'd do anything in basketball regardless of where they end up.

[Facts]

I totally agree those reasons were not well thought out. (What is your opinion ‘siouxrock’? After all, under that bison robe, you are Bakken’s son. But you woulda thunk youd knowd your Dadda is no longer in the sportz deportment.)

There is an additional reason that NDSU should be concerned that is unrelated to money, conference affiliation, transition, facilities: Minnesota State - Moorhead. Before you laugh (which I somehow suspect you are) {why is it O.K. for this board to be disrepectful of ‘local’ schools like MSU-Moorhead, UM-Crookston, but any school that is far away, has got to be ‘good’, even if you are totally ignorant of it?}, consider the following:

1. NDSU had intended to add Division I hockey if they could have had their arena by the FargoDome funded by Fargo voters.
2. NDSU fully expected that they would be welcomed into the WCHA when they had their new arena and hockey program. (This would have been much more difficult than believed, as the WCHA is already ‘full’ and it would have had to add two teams.)
3. When the arena is rejected by Fargo voters, NDSU mysteriously drops pursuit of hockey as a Div. I sport, changes direction and decides to consider Division I/I-AA in all sports. (Very focused and staying with a plan there, shows institutional perserverance and character!)
4. NDSU shows no interest in the CHA, a Division I hockey conference of less established hockey schools that are paying their ‘dues’ in hockey. The CHA, which includes Bemidji State as a member, has a low barrier to entry from a facilities and monetary commitment standpoint.
5. After declaring their Division I intent, NDSU is still officially interested in hockey, but ‘later.’
6. The CHA would love to have another Division I school in Upper Midwest. (NDSU won the CHA’s endearing friendship, after all!).
7. Moorhead is a city that loves and supports hockey.

So, let’s see, in the year 2005, while NDSU is busy transitioning itself into Division I, MSU-Moorhead announces that it is joining the CHA for Division I hockey. Three years later, crowds are overflowing at the Moorhead Sports Center. The City of Moorhead / MSU decide to construct a 7000 seat arena. MSU-Moorhead hockey grows and is invited to NCAA playoffs in the year 2010 as the CHA champs. MSU-Moorhead becomes ‘the’ hockey team for Fargo-Moorhead to the absolute dismay of the NDSU athletic department. In the meantime, NDSU football is competitive but the men’s and women’s BB teams can’t recruit and go 4-26 and 7-23. Who is dominating the wintertime media in the F-M area? Just a nightmare maybe, but farfetched? After all, whether you like it or not, hockey is the only sport that this area provides significant competitive advantages on a national basis.

I just gave out my first neg rep!! This scenario was/is complete trash.

[HandoEX]

I just gave out my first neg rep!! This scenario was/is complete trash.

Too bad the member that posted that hasn't logged in since the BV forum software was last changed years and years ago:p
lol

[Bison bison]

I'm still here, I just changed my name.

:p

[NDSU1980]

Good for UND, jump at the Big Sky if it offers you. I originally liked the Big Sky for NDSU, but it really loses it's appeal if Montana and Montana State aren't going to be there. Battles with N Arizona, yawn. Sac. State, no thanks. Enjoy traveling to Washington one week, northern Cali the next and then Arizona after that. I'll take Norther Iowa, S. Illinois and SDSU any day. And the Big Sky might be a better b-ball league but who cares. They're in the same position as the Summit. They're only going to be sending 1 team to the tourney every year so it doesn't matter.

In my never be humble opinion, if the Montana's leave, that takes out any chance of UND ever getting into the BSC. The schools out on the coast, like Sac State want nothing to do with traveling to GF. I think the fire trucks are kidding themselves if they think anyone outside of the state of Montana wants them. ((Actually, no one in ND wants them either, but that's another story))

[sambini]

UND to the Big Sky+++

[missingnumber7]

UND to the Big Sky+++

Northern Colorado needs someone they can beat.

[sambini]

Northern Colorado needs someone they can beat.
UNC has had a rough time..

[BisoninNWMN]

UNC has had a rough time..

Big Sky made a huge mistake taking UNC over NDSU/SDSU. They are a shorter traveling distance but theeir athletic programs do not even compare to ours.

Good for us, MV and Summit are better fits.

[sambini]

Big Sky made a huge mistake taking UNC over NDSU/SDSU. They are a shorter traveling distance but theeir athletic programs do not even compare to ours.

Good for us, MV and Summit are better fits.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++