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tony
12-21-2002, 04:58 PM
Just thought I'd start a new thread for this to separate it from the first topic.

Fargo Forum: NDSU shooting for Big Sky (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=24623)

I'm cautiously optimistic. I'd love for NDSU to get into the Big Sky.

It didn't seem that hard for Wanless to oppose NDSU's and SDSU's admission to the Big Sky since he hasn't even listened to their proposals yet. Wanless should have checked Expedia out - if I can find a flight that gets from Sacramento to Fargo in under five hours, I don't see why he can't find one that gets there in under six or seven.

SDSUFAN
12-21-2002, 05:50 PM
Tony:
I posted nearly the same thought over on D2football, but Wanless's reaction has something to do with the possibilty that Sac State and Portland State are on thin ice with the Big SKy. *From what I understand the facilities and attendence standard that the Big Sky sets have not been met by these two schools. *With two eastern schools asking for admission, you can almost predict the Wanless reaction.

Another thing that comes to mind in light of a few years back when Cal-State Northridge football program got in trouble with the NCAA. The Big Sky was on verge of tossing CSN because they still had a 6000 seating facility for football and had done absolutely nothing since their admission to the Big Sky. Improving the seating accomodation for football was a condition for admission to the Big Sky.

*So standards do have a bearing gaining and maintaining membership in the Big Sky. *

I suspect SDSU will start to get in high gear in upgrading Coughlin and NDSU has talked very seriously about the improvements to Bison SPorts Center.

*With Fargo Dome and Frost at SDSU, the facilities are much better some of the current members. *Idaho State I think has 8000 facility for basketball and they consider that to be a showcase from reading their board.
I picked that up from their board as they were talking if their women got a regional spot in the playoffs and which facility the game would be played in. They have a place called Reed that seats 3600 and the big arena was mentioned as being 8000. Thats all I know. I wish that Bengal guy would come back inform us on what they really have in the Big Sky.

Frost currently seats 9100 for those interested.

purplemavfan
12-22-2002, 03:59 PM
SDSU fan's comments on facilities were interesting; I have been to Frost Arena and it is definitely a division I type facility already in many ways--I am curious as to what upgrades if any would be done assuming SDSU goes to division I as planned. Coughlin stadium is in my mind a great place to watch football; with some updates and maybe the addition of permanent seating on the visitor's side it would make a nice D-1 AA stadium.

BisonInTexas
12-22-2002, 06:43 PM
This brings to mind a couple of points:

1) NDSU was waiting for the SDSU decision before pushing the issue to apply to the Big Sky after all, despite Taylor's comments earlier this fall that NDSU would be presenting to the Big Sky Conference in Oct. Perhaps this was suggested behind the scenes by some of the BSC presidents.

2) Chapman's ties to the Big Sky Conference and Montana State are paying dividends. It is encouraging to hear that the Montana State president is taking the lead in calling the meeting to explore expansion.

On the subject of travel in the Big Sky, here is another quote from Ade Sponberg on the 1978 application to the BSC, courtesy of Ed Kolpack's Bison Football: Three Decades of Excellence:

Sponberg didn't feel the eastern location of the two North Dakota schools was that much of a drawback in their bid for membership.

"We had mileage charts which showed that one team would actually travel fewer miles with us in the league," he said. "For the non-revenue sports we were talking about one trip to Fargo every eight years."

Of course, in 1978, the BSC consisted of Montana State, Montana, Idaho State, Boise State, Idaho, Northern Arizona and Weber State. Today's makeup, with Portland State and Sac State, is more westward leaning.

As far as travel times go, I am sure there are some long journeys already in the BSC. Anecdotal evidence: I was flying from Dallas to California last month and had a stop in Phoenix. The Northern Arizona football team boarded and flew to Ontario, CA and then flew on up to Oakland on the same flight. So either they took a bus from Flagstaff to Phoenix (~100 miles) or flew and switched planes, flew the two hour flight to Ontario, waited for everyone to deplane and reboard and continued on up to Oakland (not sure of the flight time but I will guess about 1.5 to 2 hours), where a bus greeted them to take them to Sacramento (1+ hours if I remember correctly). Sounds like 5-7 hours of travel to me. Maybe they should get rid of Northern Arizona based on the same reasoning? :)

Like Tony, I am cautiously optimistic. The BSC would be my first choice. It is obviously NDSU's.

Craig

tony
12-22-2002, 08:34 PM
When teams go to Flagstaff, I've heard that they fly into Phoenix and take a bus for the last 150 miles to Flagstaff - I imagine NAU does the same thing, bus and fly (or bus, fly, bus).

One thing about Fargo, you can be in your hotel twenty minutes after the plane hits the runway - assuming that there's a car there to pick you up.

SDSUFan, I've never heard that Sacramento State and Portland State are on thin ice with the Big Sky. Sure Portland State doesn't have very big crowds for BB (not even sure you can call 200/game a crowd), but even so, the Big Sky can't drop teams without endangering their automatic bid to the NCAA BB tourney. Besides, if NDSU gets into the Big Sky, I want it to be on its own merits, not at the expense of existing members. That's not the way to start off a relationship.

If the Big Sky decides to expand (and that's a fairly big IF), then I'll be a lot happier.

SDSUFAN
12-23-2002, 03:57 AM
Tony:
I would like to disclose the source of that rumor but dont dare. Lets just consider it a rumor and let it stand at that.
:-X

I mention that Idaho State had a dome that seats 8000, but I went to their site and this dome was one of the first built in the 1970's and seats 12,000. So membership in the Big Sky would never mean a mountain snow storm in Pocatello for football.

Idaho State's president is named Bowen. Bowen was president of USD when the Dakota Dome was built in 1979. I dont know if Bowen's past association with USD will be a consideration when reviewing new members applications of the Big Sky. Atleast he will be familiar with both SDSU and NDSU.


I have driven to Phoenix about four times in January since 1998, and I think its about 200 miles from Flagstaff. Payson is at least 90 from Phoenix and Flagstaff seems to my recollection to be another 100 from Payson. None-the-less, getting to Flagstaff would most likely include air travel to Phoenix. I dont have a clue about the air service to Flagstaff. It probably not that great as Flagstaff is pretty much a college town.
Flagstaff is at least another 200 miles from Alberqurque so getting there might not be real easy, but doable.

Logan, Utah, home of Weber State is a few miles from Salt Lake City so bus rides are probably more common than one would think in the BSC.

SDSUFAN
12-23-2002, 04:20 AM
I checked my Rand Mc Atlas and stand to be corrected as the distance between Phoenix and Flagstaff is 138 miles so Bison in Texas was more accurate when he said it was a 100 miles. Also Alberqueque is 328 miles from Flagstaff.

I also confused Weber State's location. They are in Ogden and not Logan. Ogden is only about 45 miles from SLC. No big deal on the bus ride. Utah State is in Logan.

BisonInTexas
12-23-2002, 04:49 AM
I couldn't quite remember the distance from Phoenix to Flagstaff - so that's why I guessed ~100 miles. I drove it exactly once when traveling from Tucson to ND for a Christmas break in 1990 when I was attending grad school at the U of A. I was remembering it was about the same as the distance from Tucson to Phoenix (118 miles, IIRC), but in actuality it is a little more (I guess it all kind of runs together in a 2000 mile trip! :)). Anyway, my guess is that given a choice, a majority of the teams would prefer to travel to Fargo or Brookings over going to Flagstaff as far as convenience is concerned.

The points about teams being on shakey ground are actually good selling points for NDSU and SDSU, in my opinion. The Big Sky conference has had a very fluid membership over its existence, what with Cal State Northridge, Idaho, Boise State, Nevada, etc. moving up or dropping out. If they wanted to expand they would be looking for teams that are committed to DI-AA for the long haul and ones that can be successful at that level. NDSU and SDSU are two prime examples of those types of institutions. It might be time to re-evaluate the long term vision for the Big Sky and figure out what types of universities they want to be affiliated with. Hopefully, NDSU and SDSU fit those criteria.

Another idle thought: Why haven't we heard of UNC applying for membership in the Big Sky? Or have they?

Craig

SDSUFAN
12-23-2002, 11:03 AM
UNC and the Big Sky has not gotten much print even in the Greeley Tribune. I dont know what the story is on that possibility. They have talked about the Mid Continent Conference which is basically a Basketball conference . That seems unusal when their current strength is in Football, Volleyball and women's basketball. Their mens team is not doing much and one of their best recruits, Aaron Austin is playing in the NCC this year. I forget where.

Both Nottingham, though new and Butler Hancock need improvements to get them up to D1 level. Nottingham is brand new its just needs additional seating on the vistors side. Butler Hancock is very small and seats about 4000 and additions to that building look costly in my estimation. They may have to build a brand new basketball arena, but when they have been such a poor draw some times only 500, it might be hard to justify. I know they have a Monfort and Coors working on this project and how much money they will pony up and able to raise will kind of tell their story in the D1 saga.

JBB
12-23-2002, 12:23 PM
Sac State and Portland are only going to visit the Dakotas every other year in football and every year in BB. For the rest of the schools whats the difference? They can go to the west coast or come to the Dakotas.

The Dakotas would replace 2 non conference games. The only addition to their travel budget would be the difference between the current non conference travel costs and the travel costs to the Dakotas. Like Ade said,*that could actually mean a reduction in overall travel when taken over a period of time.

It's going to be interestsing to see how the 2 schools sell the idea of membership to the others. *Both are land grant institutions just like Montana, Montana State and Idaho State. *NDSU/SDSU would bring the land grants to 5. *The other 5 schools are regionally based public universities. *They might not see things the same as the land grants. However, I too believe stability and strength of programs is going to be a big seller for the athletics. The quality of the education, common research interests and the possibility of future partnerships is going to help the academic side.

SLC to Ogden would be like Sioux Falls to Brookings. Its all interstate and an easy trip. I imagine visitors would fly to either Fargo or Sioux Falls and then bus to the other school. So maybe its the bus ride from Fargo to Brookings that he's thinking about? At any rate he sounded very negative about it.

Maybe its really the weather not the travel? He probably has people behind the scenes that have a huge negative about the weather even though its the same as Montana.

Guest
12-23-2002, 03:03 PM
Check your facts, Sac State averages 11,500 for football at home. That places them second in BSC football attendance. I don't think the Sky has a problem with that.

SDSUFAN
12-23-2002, 05:49 PM
Mr. Boyd;

I did check the figures for Sac State Football year 2002 and here is what they are

ATTENDANCE.................... * * * *36313 * * * *87395
* Games/Avg Per Game.......... * * * 5/7263 * * *7/12485

The 87,395 represents the attendence on the road and the 36,313 is the home attendence. Those figures are not much better than SDSU where we have had maybe 5900 as an average. Also Sac State played Montana, UCD and Texas El Paso on the road. Those three opponents would account for the disparity in home and away games.

So if they had 11000 per game, it did not happen in 2002. Something tells me that things are not going in the right direction at Sac State. Attendence figures for 2002 seem to bear out my suspicion. *Surely Wanless has checked these numbers and it got to give him *some lose bowel movements after seeing what SDSU and NDSU can offer in home attendence.

Just for the record here is SDSU attendence record. *Brookings compared to Sacremento in Population is 18,000 to over a half million. *With the right promotion I think SDSU could increase more in the future. *We hope to pull in more fans from Sioux Falls.


ATTENDANCE.................... * * * *35804 * * * *14431
*Games/Avg Per Game.......... * * * 6/5967 * * * 4/3608

I hope the BSC presidents will look at these numbers.

Guest
12-23-2002, 06:20 PM
You are correct for 2002, that is why the coach was canned. Sac averaged 11,500 from 99-01. Attendance was peaking and the coach and his staff fell in a hole. I am not aware of the 02 attendance, which was, as you noted, far below average. As anyone from California will tell you, attendance at ANY sporting event is a challenge, including Sac State, UCLA, Lakers and 49ers. Too many activities vying for the entertainment dollar. Basketball pretty much sucks, in winning, attendance and facility. The Sky accepted Sac partly because it is one of the hottest media markets in the USA. During the Olympic Trials, which were held at Sac, and will be held again in 04, Sac averaged over 18,000+ daily for the week long event. Sac is the giant waiting to waken, we just need to get the right person to bring it all together.

Bisonguy
12-23-2002, 10:33 PM
In 97 and 98 Sac State averaged less than 5,500.

LINK (http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attendance/1998/1998_iaa_football_attendance.html)

What happened to bump the attendance up that much? ???

Guest
12-24-2002, 02:01 PM
Two reasons the bump in attendance occurred. The Sacramento community wants a winner badly and will support the team when it is winning and secondly, Charles Roberts the all-time leader in NCAA yardage.

SDSUFAN
12-25-2002, 01:08 AM
Mr. Boyd:

From the offical website, I read about the Canadian Football League having a franchise in Sacremento and using the Sac State Staduim. It says also that this franchise pull out and went else where, I believe Texas. Did their brief stay in Sacremento help boost attendence? I understand after they left, the end zone seating was removed. Looks like the football facility is first class for D1AA even without the end zone seating.

Guest
12-27-2002, 10:43 PM
Hi again everybody. For what it's worth, I've been following NDSU and SDSU's interest in the Big Sky and am in favor of adding both schools.

I don't think either NDSU or SDSU has to worry too much about facilites-at least football and basketball venues.

Here's a brief run down of what I know of Big Sky venues. Hope it helps:

Eastern Washington-nice on campus gym-seats about 5000 (rarely needs that many seats), very small on campus stadium, but they don't draw too well. They do play at least one game a year in Albi Stadium in nereby Spokane which seats about 20-25K. They had 17K this year for Montana although over half the crowd was reportidly for UM.

Portland State-started out playing b-ball in the Rose Garden (Home of the Trailblazers), but never drew more than a couple thousand. Moved basketball to a small on campus gym last season-seldom draw more than a 1000. Football is played in the newly refurbished Civic Stadium in Portland-it looks very nice and seats about 20K. The stadium is also used by pro soccer and baseball teams in the summer.

Sac St-they started out playing in a downtown auditorium complete with a stage on one end and big chandeleirs. It looked pretty cool from the pictures I saw. But they've since moved to an on campus gym that would probably make Moorhead State's gym look like Engelstad Arena by comparison. I suppose Arco Arena is available if they ever need it. Their stadium seats about 17K and has hosted US Track and Field Championships recently.

NAU-They have a 15K seat on campus dome (a true dome) that they play football and basketball in. I've never been in there, but it I've heard it's a pretty tough place to play basketball. NAU always has good teams and a 20K enrollment, but for whatever reason their attendance is very poor most of the time.

Weber State-Recently renovated their 17k seat stadium (at least on one side). They have the best arena in the Big Sky by far in the 12,000 seat Dee Events Center. It has recently hosted first round NCAA basketball tournament games. The infamous Purple Palace!

ISU-play football in 12,000 seat Holt Arena. It looks like a giant potato cellar from the outside (I'm not kidding), but it's a fun place to watch a football game. Up until this year they also played basketball in there, but have since decided to move b-ball to a renovated campus gym that supposedly seats about 4000.

UM-Football stadium will hold just over 20K when additions are complete. It's a compact concrete bowl in a big hole that gets really loud-NDSU will get a first hand look next year. Their b-ball arena has been completely renovated and holds about 7500. I haven't been there but it looks pretty nice on TV.

MSU-Recently renovated football stadium holds about 13,500-but had 15,000 with standing room only against UM last year-more renovations are needed for the endzone seating. B-ball is played in the Brick Breeden Fieldhouse-a big dome that dominates Bozeman's sky line. In current configuration it holds around 7200 for basketball (can easily accomodate more) and has recently been renovated.

I've seen NDSU's facilities first hand and they stack up pretty well. From what I've seen of SDSU-you might need to upgrade the football stadium press box and build a few luxery boxes to generate revenue, and your basketball arena looks like it will stack up just fine in the Big Sky as is.

Bisonguy
12-27-2002, 11:37 PM
BelgradeBobcat,

What are some good DI sites?

Any others besides the bigskyconference site?

Bengal1
12-31-2002, 12:03 AM
Belgrade is right on, as usual. How 'bout some links to some of the Big Sky facilities... Bisonguy, I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but this is a link to the I-AA webring (with links to other I-AA school and conference boards):

http://j.webring.com/hub?ring=iaacollegefootba&id=14&hub

Most I-AA Football Stadiums:

http://www.eteamz.com/I-AAfootball/locations/

Eastern Washington:

http://www.ewu.edu/new/maptours/pages/ReeseCourt.html

Idaho State:

http://www.isu.edu/departments/holt/

http://www.isu.edu/departments/holt/campics/Mvc-018s.jpg

http://www.isu.edu/isutour/build-descrip/reed-gym.html

University of Montana:

http://web.montanagrizzlies.com/umgriz/stadiums_and_facilities/wgs_about.htm

http://www.adamseventcenter.com/

Montana State:

http://www.msubobcats.com/athletics/facilities.asp

Northern Arizona:

http://www.nau.edu/sun/dome/domepics.html

Portland State:

http://goviks.ocsn.com/genrel/101402aaa.html

http://www.pgepark.com/

Sacramento State:

http://www.hornetsports.com/sports/football/stadium.asp

http://www.hornetsports.com/sports/mbball/arena.asp

Weber State:

http://old.weber.edu/deeeventscenter/

http://departments.weber.edu/athletics/NewWebsite/Administration/Facilities.htm

Bisonguy
12-31-2002, 12:13 AM
Thanks for the reply Bengal1. I guess I should have made my request a little more clear. I was asking for DI fan sites, something like the D2football.com site that many of us here frequent. We're not going to be able to hang out there much longer.

Guest
12-31-2002, 04:11 PM
The CFL Sacramento Gold Miners played on the Sacramento State campus for three years using Hornet stadium. Average attendance was in the 26,000 range. Sacramento State benefitted by having the stadium upgraded with network quality lighting, electrical and infrastructure improvements. Seating was in a bowl with 26,000 seats available. Sacramento State averaged about 7,000 game during this time. The big kick to Sac State attendance was the Olympic Trials. The Trials exposed many people to the good times available at the stadium and the campus. Sac State is very isolated on 300 acres next to a horseshoe in the American River. The Trials exposure brought many newbies to campus. When the CFL team folded, the end zone seats (5,000 total) were removed to make way for the Track and Field improvements. I can say that the view from the top of the stadium is breaktaking. The snow covered Sierra in the distance, the American River flowing nearby and trees everywhere. A great setting. I wish the administration and city would pay for more upgrades though. The stadium needs a permanent facade and other improvements, but it is a definite improvement over what they had. Alex Spanos, NFL Chargers owner, recently gave $1.5M for upgrades and local building supply tycoon Fred Anderson built the initial upgrades. Keep your fingers crossed the state budget cuts don't cut too deep.

tony
12-31-2002, 05:42 PM
I stayed in Sacramento for the NDSU v UC Davis "game." Man, there is a lot of potential in both places (UC Davis and Sacramento State). It's easy to fly in and the accomodation was very reasonable.

Your stadium has to be better than Davis's (it looks almost exactly like Mandan, North Dakota's rodeo grounds, btw, except the folks in the stands and the field itself which was in good shape). I'll be glad when they build a stadium though.

JBB
12-31-2002, 07:52 PM
How many hours did it take you to fly Tony? Was it the full 7-8 hrs regulation time? Actually I dont think it took me 7-8 hrs to get to Hawaii from Mnpls.

tony
12-31-2002, 09:08 PM
I flew into and out of San Francisco from NYC so I'm not a good test subject. I know that United can get you from Fargo to Sacramento in 5 hours and Northwest in 6.

BisonInTexas
12-31-2002, 09:42 PM
I see from the latest update in the Forum, the meeting will be held the first week of Feb.

Big Sky to Hold Special Meeting (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=25046)

Does anyone know the criteria that the BSC uses to accept new members (i.e. is it a 2/3 majority vote? simple majority? unanimous?)?

I also wonder which two schools are not going to send their presidents and how that affects the meeting. Sounds like no "vote" will occur at that meeting. It will just be to gauge interest on further talks with NDSU and SDSU.

Craig

P.S. This post should put me in the "Green n Gold Boxer" club! ;D
P.P.S Oops! Guess not. Maybe next post... :'(

tony
01-01-2003, 07:01 PM
BTW, Bengal1, that was above and beyond the call of duty to post all that information. Thank you very much.

Guest
01-02-2003, 02:17 PM
Where did you hear that two schools will not send presidents to the Feb. meeting in SLC? I would bet that Sac president Larry Bud Mailman (Gerth) will not attend, he is a lame duck leaving office in the summer (retiring) and the other president probably from Portland State. Don't count on Sac building a new stadium anytime soon, the state budget barely has enough money to pay for postage. The '04 US Olympic Trials will once again be held at Hornet stadium, maybe, just maybe, some improvements will be made to the facility for that event. If Sacramento anticipates holding the event in the future, improvements MUST be made, Dominguez Hills State is building a $125M + soccer, tennis and track facility. They anticipate bidding for the next Olympic Trials.

BisonInTexas
01-02-2003, 02:57 PM
Where did you hear that two schools will not send presidents to the Feb. meeting in SLC? I would bet that Sac president Larry Bud Mailman (Gerth) will not attend, he is a lame duck leaving office in the summer (retiring) and the other president probably from Portland State. Don't count on Sac building a new stadium anytime soon, the state budget barely has enough money to pay for postage. The '04 US Olympic Trials will once again be held at Hornet stadium, maybe, just maybe, some improvements will be made to the facility for that event. If Sacramento anticipates holding the event in the future, improvements MUST be made, Dominguez Hills State is building a $125M + soccer, tennis and track facility. They anticipate bidding for the next Olympic Trials.

It was reported in the Kolpack article cited above. You probably didn't want to register to view the article, but it is no charge and I haven't received any junk mail as a result of registering to read the IN-FORUM articles, FYI.

Craig

BisonInTexas
01-24-2003, 05:16 AM
It appears that the meeting has been moved later in the month so all of the presidents will be in attendance.

Big Sky to Discuss Expansion (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=26297)

I think this is a good thing in that it shows that they are serious in their deliberations - making sure that all of the parties are present. I am still cautiously optimistic.

Craig

Guest
01-24-2003, 08:07 PM
FYI – This may help answer some questions. There is talk that Sac State may bolt for Big West. There just rumors.

1. Athletic Director has repeatedly made clear that Sac State is staying in the Big Sky.

2. California’s budget crisis does not hinder funding for athletics. The athletic department has a stabilizing source of income; student fees. Student enrollment is going to expand up to another 1,000 students for the next year pushing total enrollment to 29,500. Long term (2010) enrollment goal is about 33,000. The student fee is tied to inflation or cost of living and will continue to keep pace.

3. Big West will not add football. Under that scenario, you have only six teams. You need at least 8 teams in a football conference to qualify for the national playoffs. San Jose State’s athletic director has repeatedly made clear that they will drop football ALL TOGETHER if they get bounced from 1a.

4. Wanless has said that there will be a facilities’ master blue print put together that will include improvements to the Hornet Stadium such as permanent restroom and concession stands. If the facilities are currently good enough for the NCAA Track Finals and the upcoming Olympic trials, they are good enough for Big Sky football.

5. Portland State will not leave Big Sky unless they are forced out. Why would they leave? They have no other conference to join. The Big West will not take them as its commissioner has repeatedly stated that he wants an all California school league.

6. Sac would compete against known teams? Maybe Davis and Pacific, that is it. Sac State playing Northride, Fullerton, Long Beach or Irvine makes no difference to fans than if Sac State were playing Idaho State or Montana State. Check attendance figures in Big West bball games. They aren’t much better than Sac State’s bball figures.

7. As for CSUS not having a president, this could be an issue. But, with Sac State finally having its first real, authentic athletic director since the university has moved up to division I, it will be a hard case to make to drop football for the following reasons. A. Scholarships are fully funded to the 1aa maximum. B. A new football head coach was hired to a four year contract with a pay increase. C. Assistant football coaches will be getting raises. D. Wanless is in the process of hiring a full time development director, something Sac State has never had at division 1. E. Wanless is a football guy through and through. He is committed to Big Sky and Sac State keeping football.

BisonInTexas
01-24-2003, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the info, sacrat.

I think most on this board would agree that they would rather have NDSU join the Big Sky with the league as it is, rather than hoping that teams move out or are forced out.

Craig

tony
01-24-2003, 10:45 PM
Yeah, I agree. I want NDSU to have a positive effect on whatever conference it joins from the very beginning.

Bisonguy
01-25-2003, 05:28 AM
I agree.

Guest
01-26-2003, 03:21 PM
Here is the way I see the BSC expansion vote Stacking up:

Voting to expand:
Montana State
Montana
Weber State
Idaho

Voting against Expansion:
Sac State
Northern Arizona
Portland State (maybe)

Unknown how they will vote:
Eastern Washington

That is my guess based on what I have read and a couple things that I have seen on the Salt Lake City TV news. Where I am at in Wyoming we get the SLC stations as out local stations on cable. I hope I am wrong about Portland State and that Eastern Washington votes our way as well. If it were just NAU and Sac State against us, our chances of admission would be much better. If we don't get into the BSC I am very worried about the quality of any other conference choices. The BSC is really the prize.

JBB
01-26-2003, 07:08 PM
I dont understand the travel issue with so many BSC fans. Every team in the BSC except Sac State has games away that are further than a trip to the Dakotas.I didnt count their DIA games either.

I see it about the same way. EWU has a stadium that seats 6,000. i would think their program isnt a big money maker.

Guest
01-27-2003, 05:42 AM
Nice to discussion and excitement. First of all, http://www.petespoll.com is nice I-AA site. No board though. It is under construction, but still okay.

I am a fan of YSU (Youngstown). Just a few comments:

All teams in the Big Sky will be in favor of expansion, with the eventual goal of a 3rd conference in the NCAA West. Right now, there is no consistency in the number of teams getting into the play-off from the west. They take teams from the Big Sky and Southland, just because they are in the west bracket to be fair. The Big Sky needs at least 1 more team to be guaranteed 2 invitations to the playoff on a regular basis.

Teams in the east have large schools in close proximity and it is difficult to have a following. YSU has 7 MAC schools, Pitt, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan and Michigan St. & Cincinnati all within a few hours. Not to mention DIII power Mt. Union and NAIA power Westminster a few miles away. Schools in the NorthWest always do well in attendance (ie:Montana) as they are the largest programs in the region.

NSC going to the Mid-Con is a smart move, they will then have to be an independent, BSC or Gateway member in FB.

I watched YSU move from the DII to I-AA and it was a tough move, but successful. They made it to the DII play-off, then the title game ... then moved up. The reason is the financial benefit from doing so ... increased ticket revenue, alumni cash and state funds go up dramatically. YSU moved from a local HS stadium that only held around 5k (that is probably a bit high) and now has one of the finest facilities in all DI/IAA.

With the advent of sports television channels, IAA is starting to get a great deal more attention. It is crucial for teams to have something to keep good local/regional talent at home and DI football can do that for you. The ability to be able to move out and recruit ... I-AA is far less regional than DII. The initial expense is large with travel, that will be the largest issue in my opinion. Your attendance is excellent for DII or I-AA program, that is attractive to the NCAA. Also, you will be able to get a money game against a PAC-10 school (as several Big Sky teams have done) and take home a nice 250k pay check. That is possibly as much as all of your home games combined at present.

Good luck and I hope to see you in '04

Guest
01-27-2003, 11:46 PM
I-AA Fan,

I looked at your Petes.... web site and there is a Message board. It is at the top of the site to get into it. It looks like it was just started not too long ago. There aren't a lot of messages on it.

I am hoping the Bison get in the Big Sky. It is NDSU's best fit. The Gateway is much too far away and is just a football conference. We would have to find another conference for all the other sports.

Guest
01-28-2003, 03:20 AM
There are no two ways about it. Sac State is a terrible place. They talk a lot of hype every off season and even manage to land a few quasi-blue chippers. But they are held back by a lack of discipline and ridiculously poor coaching. They are usually good for 2-3 fellonies per year with at least one coming mid-season. We played a "home game" at Hughes Stadium (20,000 Horseshoe) in Sacramento against the Hornettes this past year. We brought 12,000 people from Davis and all they could muster was a measly crowd of 3,800 on the visitor's side. I feel bad for a lot of the players that commit there just because they are offered scholarship money. Their current QB is going into his junior season after starting the past two years. He has a rocket for an arm and is big but makes some of the dumbest damn throws I have ever sees and relies purely on armstrenght. If he would have been at Davis the guy would be a no doubt NFL draft pick. At some point people should probably start realizing this and stop commiting the the Hornettes.

Guest
01-28-2003, 02:54 PM
Reggie-Your spelling and grammatical structure reflect your high educational disposition. You represent Davis well. 8)

mojobison
01-28-2003, 03:02 PM
Don't worry, Reggie. The right coach and those problems will get sorted out - unless it's a perception thing.

Guest
01-28-2003, 06:56 PM
I don't spelt too gooder after my third cough syrup.

-they still suck

BisonMav
01-29-2003, 12:48 PM
NDSU vs Teams that are currently in the Big Sky Thru the Years:

1-0 Idaho St
2-1 Montana
12-21 Montana St
5-3 N Arizona
2-0 Weber St
22-24 Total

Guest
01-31-2003, 05:32 AM
That list can't be complete because I know you have faced Slick State at least once.

UCD v Big Sky:
Slick State 34-16
PSU 1-4
Montana 0-2

Sum: 35-22 but heavily skewed because as we all know, Sac State Sucks.

JBB
01-31-2003, 11:16 AM
NDSU is 1-0-0 vs Sac State. Our all time record is on this page just look under history

tony
01-31-2003, 03:11 PM
Ah, finally a question I can answer.

NDSU vs Big Sky Conference Teams:

Cal State-Sacramento 1-0-0
Montana State 12-22-0
Weber State 2-0-0
Idaho State 1-0-0
Northern Arizona 5-3-0
Montana 2-1-0
Portland State 1-0-0

NDSU is 24-26 vs teams currently in the Big Sky. NDSU has a lot more history with the teams in the Big Sky than with those in any DII conference other than our own. The nearest competitors are the NSIC (30 games), GLIAC (17) and MIAA (9). Heck, if SDSU, NDSU, and UNC all got into the Big Sky, our Big Sky winning percentage would jump to over .650 :)

It's all here (http://www.bisonville.com/wins.html)

Guest
01-31-2003, 03:35 PM
Tony...go on over to egriz and tell it to those guys.....the have a hard time dealing with that. I think they are afraid of what NDSU would do to the status of thier program in the Big Sky. As soon as NDSU would be elgible for post season play in football I think the Griz may well be playing second fiddle..... ;D

tony
01-31-2003, 06:10 PM
Oh, I don't expect that they'd care too much about what I think. I can't really say what's best for the Big Sky because my point of view is obscured by wanting what is best for NDSU. It's a tribute to the Big Sky that NDSU and SDSU would be so thrilled to get into their conference.

Maybe I'll do some smack talking after NDSU has some wins against Big Sky opponents. Probably not though. I'm just not very good at it.

Guest
01-31-2003, 06:44 PM
I have to admit that as an "outsider" to this all, after reading their board, they do seem a bit scared of the Bison coming into the Big Sky.

Guest
01-31-2003, 07:02 PM
There is some positive talk on this board for Montana State. The MSU fans are pretty positive ....

http://boards.go.com/cgi/ncaa/request.dll?LIST&room=col_147&messagID=9811end

Guest
01-31-2003, 07:51 PM
NDSU will do just fine in the BIg Sky. In fact, I believe they will be at the top of the conference within five to six years. SDSU is another story. They do not have the population base that NDSU has and their fans aren't nearly as passionate (what some might call ruthless). The BIg Sky would be so much better off with UNC and NDSU. SDSU will be the weak link in the conference for a long time.

BruCrew91
01-31-2003, 09:20 PM
sioux fan,

I don't know if UMmmm is so much "scared" as they have one of the best football programs in the nation (the rest of their sports teams, other than women's bball are suspect though as they dump most of their money into football). I'd say it's more of a "complex" thing...their football success has really gone to the heads of some of their "fans" and they think they are too good for I-AA, let alone North and South Dakota.

I think it would be great for NDSU and SDSU to join the Big Sky...UNC would also be a great addition, but from what I hear, they aren't interested at this point in time. We'll see what happens. At the very least, the move up will allow for more, closer, OOC games for MSU and will only bring greater attention to the teams in the western half of the nation.

I also believe NDSU would be very competitive which should help SDSU improve their program as well.

SDSUFAN
01-31-2003, 09:51 PM
NDSU will do just fine in the BIg Sky. *In fact, I believe they will be at the top of the conference within five to six years. *SDSU is another story. *They do not have the population base that NDSU has and their fans aren't nearly as passionate (what some might call ruthless). *The BIg Sky would be so much better off with UNC and NDSU. *SDSU will be the weak link in the conference for a long time. *

Based on current day budgets, yes SDSU would be a weak link. Coach Stieglemeier indicated on a WDAY radio interview this past fall that the last time he checked SDSU was spending much less than NDSU on football. One of the big stoppers for SDSU going into Wisconsin and Nebraska more often for recruits is the reciposity between the individual states relating to tuition, particularily Wisconsin. We have maybe no more than 4 Wisconsin kids on the roster at one time. From what I was told, the recriuting class from Wisconsin has been one person per class, and that I personally feel has limited the quality of recruits at SDSU. We have settled for Southwest Minn kids more than maybe we should have. The reason is that South Dakota has reciposity with Minnesota and a new agreement has closed the gap with Nebraska and Iowa.

We have not done too bad in attendence and the last few years, we have learned the importance of providing tailgate opportunities and promotion amongst the AG interests in South Dakota. There are other ways to bring in a crowd. We also need to upgrade the permanent seating on the east side of the field, new locker rooms and a few other things.

Certainly we need to do better in drawing Sioux Falls into the picture. We do have key alums who are going to help with this. Its all birds in the bush right now, but I expect with the Move to D1AA, the biggest bump in dollars in terms of individual sports will be in football.

JBB
02-01-2003, 02:56 AM
How is it that you kicked our ass last year then? ::)

Bison_Kent
02-01-2003, 03:13 AM
JBB,

I don't think they kicked us too bad. If my memory is correct. SDSU won by less then a touchdown.

Great news on the Milwaukee corner. This is one area that I think the Bison need badly. I would like to see the defense have the ability to blitz on a somewhat regualar basis and have the corners that can stay with opposing WR's.

SDSUFAN
02-01-2003, 03:24 AM
John:
Occasionally a blind sow will find an acorn. Since Darrell Mudra came to Fargo, in 1963, SDSU has won maybe 4 times 1973, 1993 1996 and this year. We still have a 40 year losing streak in Fargo. I think one big difference has been those good skilled guys that you were able to recruit in Wisconsin. I.E Lamar Gorden et al. I believe North Dakota has a reciposity agreement with both Minn and Wisconsin, that does not bust the budget at NDSU. If SDSU recruits a kid from Wisconsin, it cost maybe 13,000 for a full ride, and at NDSU, with a tuition rate for outstate Wisconsin being about the same or near the same as in-state tuition for North Dakota, a full ride for the Wisconsin recruits is much less, 7 or 8 thousand which I feel allows NDSU to go over to recruit rich Wisconsin and pick up a number of good recruits.

What I recall off hand from your rooster are 12 or more Wisconsin players, many who have help win a number of football games.

The few that SDSU has had from Wisconsin have been excellent players. Right now Walter Dosh had a great day against the Bison. I hope he will have many more good games like that one.

Back in the Daly era we had a wide receiver Matt Beier who had unbelieable quickness. Also the QB Bouchee was very good. Then there was the kicker Nelson from Hudson Wisconsin, who left and is at Purdue I believe. Also there a few others but those who were recruited have panned out real good except for Nelson who wanted to kick in the Big 10.

BisonInTexas
02-01-2003, 03:59 AM
John:
Occasionally a blind sow will find an acorn. Since Darrell Mudra came to Fargo, in 1963, SDSU has won maybe 4 times 1973, 1993 1996 and this year. We still have a 40 year losing streak in Fargo. I think one big difference has been those good skilled guys that you were able to recruit in Wisconsin. I.E Lamar Gorden et al. I believe North Dakota has a reciposity agreement with both Minn and Wisconsin, that does not bust the budget at NDSU. If SDSU recruits a kid from Wisconsin, it cost maybe 13,000 for a full ride, and at NDSU, with a tuition rate for outstate Wisconsin being about the same or near the same as in-state tuition for North Dakota, a full ride for the Wisconsin recruits is much less, 7 or 8 thousand which I feel allows NDSU to go over to recruit rich Wisconsin and pick up a number of good recruits.

What I recall off hand from your rooster are 12 or more Wisconsin players, many who have help win a number of football games.

The few that SDSU has had from Wisconsin have been excellent players. Right now Walter Dosh had a great day against the Bison. I hope he will have many more good games like that one.

Back in the Daly era we had a wide receiver Matt Beier who had unbelieable quickness. Also the QB Bouchee was very good. Then there was the kicker Nelson from Hudson Wisconsin, who left and is at Purdue I believe. Also there a few others but those who were recruited have panned out real good except for Nelson who wanted to kick in the Big 10.


Correct me if I am wrong, but when I attended NDSU, there was no reciprocity with Wisconsin. Perhaps it has changed since 1990?

Craig

Bison_Kent
02-01-2003, 04:05 AM
Craig,

When I graduated in 1996, there wasn't anything then either. My little sister is now at NDSU and I looked over some of the tuition stuff and didn't see anything about Wisconsin in it. I know Minnesota and South Dakota and I believe possibly Montana have tuition breaks. I thought it was just the states that border ND.

But don't quote me on that.

JBB
02-01-2003, 04:14 AM
I don't know about reciprocity, but I do remember the SDSU game. The score has nothing to do with how bad the BISON got run out of town. I walked the sidelines for most of the game with another huge fan. We left with about 10 minutes to go. Why? there wasn't much hope. I cant tell you how surprised we were to hear the final score. The BISON did a lot in the final 5 minutes or so. For most of the game they looked rather average or worse. SDSU killed us all day with the underneath passing game. Then, when we thought we had that under control they would hit the long ball. Their D smothered us for most of the day and we looked a lot like many of you remember. It was not a day of honor for the great BISON Lore. The too little too late comeback did restore some respectability though.

I hate to add, bad calls contributed to our misery. :P

SDSUFAN
02-01-2003, 04:31 AM
The more I think about reciposity, think I got North Dakota confused with Minnesota. Minnesota has reciposity with Wisconsin and I guess I was getting NDSU confused with St Cloud. Sorry about that.

NDSU apparently has had the funds to absorb this extra cost from Wisconsin recuiting and you got more hardware to show for it.

Its kind of my personal view that SDSU has not put all the money it could have in football in the last 40 years, and maybe the money has not been there. I would say Title IX was a distractor, but it was for everyone.

We just dont have that NDSU passion about football. We lost it when Mudra, Everhart, Morton and others came to Fargo. It seems that way to me.

Schemer
02-04-2003, 04:38 PM
I'm pretty sure ND does not have reciprocity with SD. A friend of mine from Aberdeen let me in on that one...

Guest
02-04-2003, 05:15 PM
Actually both North and South Dakota are members of the Western Interstate Compact on Higher Education. Because of this ND and SD participate in a program called the Western Undergraduate Exchange. This allows the students to attend schools in other member western states for only 150% of in-state tuition. For example, my daughter in Wyomingcan go to any of the ND, SD or MT schools for the 150% rate. Some states do not have all the schools in the program. In Colorado only CSU and UNC participate. Minnesota is not a part of WICHE.

SDSUFAN
02-05-2003, 12:51 AM
WyoBison:
You are absolutely correct in your reference to the Western Undergraduate Exchange and the states included are Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada Utah Montana and Idaho, and Washington, I believe. I am not sure if thats all, but we have gotten a few recruits from Las Vegas, Franky Blaylock to mention one in the past few years and I suspect its the WUE that has made it possible.

I went to the SDSU website that gives an estimate of costs for year 2002-2003.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/Admissions/FinancialAid/CostEstimate/Index.cfm

In-state for SD is now $7,928 for a full year and that would be the cost of a full ride for a South Dakota Athlete. Out of State cost is $12,460. *About a $4,500 dollar difference. This cost applies to Wisconsin, Illionis and non adj states For an adjacent State such as North Dakota, the full ride for one year is $10,820. For Iowa and Nebraska a special rate is in affect that amounts to $8,968.

I dont know how these costs will figure in our future recruiting, but until we get our resources build up I am not so sure we will be broadening our recruiting area too quickly. *But I am not in the loup on whats going on currently. Its really hard to tel at this point in time.

I do know that Carr & Associates was on campus last week again to work with the Leadership Council in developing a strategic plan. I sure these differences in tuition costs were part of the discussion.

I really anxious for Wednesday to see who SDSU has gotten to sign a letter. Its been a very quiet topic for discussion.

purplemavfan
02-05-2003, 02:50 AM
SDSU Fan: I was curious as to if you had heard anything in regard to how rapidly SDSU is planning on increasing football scholarships; i.e.; 5 per year, 10 per year, etc.

SDSUFAN
02-05-2003, 01:23 PM
purplemavfan:

I have no idea how they will approach this. As I stated Carr & Associates are putting together a strategic plan for SDSU. The build up in FB is one of many issues that will be addressed in the plan. A lot depends on the fund raising *for the extra dollars. We have one alum who is committed to raising 9 million for this purpose.

I know who this alum is, *but have been asked to not reveal his identity.

I see no reason to thwart his efforts as he is a ethical person with contacts. I am sure he is working very hard towards meeting his goal.

This undisclosed person does not own a casino on the Vegas strip that I can say. Only UND is fortunate to claim those type of people as an alum.

BisonMav
02-17-2003, 01:42 PM
Word on the street in Fargo is that the Big Sky admission is a sure thing. It just needs the formal stamp of approval. Anyone else hear that, or is it just wishfull thinking?

JBB
02-17-2003, 02:11 PM
It could be wishfull thinking, but Ive heard the same thing. I was told that the field was well plowed and fertilized. Because of the statements that have been made you have to feel that NDSU must have some insites.

tony
02-17-2003, 03:19 PM
I like a good agricultural analogy as much as the next guy but "harvested and sold" would be a lot better "plowed and fertilized." :)


I'll believe it when the BSC announces it.

100_proof_grizzly
02-17-2003, 04:37 PM
I will be the first to admit that I initially wasn't for your guys' admission into the Big Sky Conference, however I would be one of the first to welcome you aboard. It makes me wonder though that if you guys get in if we're going to have another lengthy discussion on going I-A again on egriz...

SDSUFAN
02-17-2003, 08:57 PM
Montana's football program has progressed significantly since 1993 when I last saw them play, and with their sucess maybe the move to D1A is in the cards for them.

I just speculating here, but it would not surprise me one bit and this might explain also the hospitality that has been displayed by the MSU president towards Chapman and Miller. *I think its more than just helping and old friend, Chapman, by considering the expansion.

Last week I threw this message at the AD at SDSU:

Here is what I wrote:

"I do have some questions about the September 1, 2003 deadline with the NCC.

If SDSU does not have a conference say by August 31, 2003, and considering the condition placed by the Board of Regents, does that leave us with only one alternative? Namely staying in the NCC for an additional year?

If SDSU informed the NCC that it could not find a conference and indicated that it would continue to participate until we find a conference, will there be contingencies such as a five year committement placed by other members of the NCC? *In other words could the members of the NCC say, Okay you want to stay D2 for awhile, can we get a five or ten year committment from SDSU?

I may be thinking negatively but if the NCC throws us with a commitment of staying, and the Board of Regents says you can not leave D2 without a conference it seems like it could put SDSU in a between hard place and a hardrock position. It's possible in my mind that it could even kill the reclassification all together. I guess what I am wondering is *What are the escape hatches under these set of circumstances? I dont think the SDSU Administration would allow this to happen, but is it possible?

I may not understand the situation as clearly as I should but a USD fan on the D2Football message board said something to this affect that if we did not find a conference by September 1, that we would be staying D2 for a long time. I can see USD trying to get SDSU to stay D2 by hook or crook and the bylaws of the NCC may be their best weapon.

Would like your comments and response when you got some time.

Clair.

Fred Oien replied that the scenarios mentioned above were *all very possible and he *would not be surprised by manuvering by the NCC members to get us to stay.

He also said that their hope and plans were based on finding a D1 conference by Sept 1 and that he would know more after the BSC meeting coming up in the next few days.

You can read what you want to into this communication, but I seem to be more worried about the September 1, deadline than our AD is at this point in time. He may know some thing about BSC expansion but cant talk about it. It may be a sure thing. I am only guessing.

siouxrock
02-17-2003, 09:50 PM
i think ndsu needs a hockey team becuz north dakota is known for there hockey and womens b-ball

Bison_Kent
02-19-2003, 01:17 AM
It was reported that the Big Sky may be waiting for Idaho to return to I-AA from the Sun Belt. Also, it stated that the timezone difference was a concern for possible future TV coverages. The report was on the WDAY sports. If you didn't know, you can watch this on the internet at http://www.in-forum.com/wday/ and go to the 6:00 news.

I hope its not true but we will have to hope for the best. Thursday we should know more.

Bison_Kent
02-20-2003, 02:52 AM
There has been little news on the Salt Lake City meeting other then the WDAY report yesterday. Does anyone else know of any new news?

SDSUFAN
02-20-2003, 07:49 AM
Kent:
Being a night owl, I have read the Thursday edition in both the Fargo Forum and the Sioux Falls Argus leader.

The Forum article had some pleasant surprises in that the President from Portland State and Eastern Washington are concerned about the BSC dropping below six members and the impact that will have on the Big Dance for D1 Basketball. Thats very interesting. Both Taylor and Oien don't seem to be overly worried about rejection as there are other options besides the BSC.




http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Thursdayarticle1.shtml

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/cache/?id=28093

Bison_Kent
02-20-2003, 10:53 AM
SDSU Fan,

I am more of a morning person. Here are articles in the Missoula, MT newspaper and the Odgen, UT paper.

http://www.missoulian.com/display/inn_sports/sports02.txt

http://www.standard.net/standard/news/news_story.html?sid=00030220000534360822+cat%3Dspo rts+template%3Dnews1.html&TVS=1%241997794906%2450% 24Thu+Feb+20+05%3A39%3A40+EST+2003-38695%240%2484E8CE04905B2D6717D8CDC3CDCC1665&CSBOX =1%24158%240%24USD%240.0%2410.0%2420.0%240.0%240%2 40%2433%3AUSD%3AUSD%3AL4%2C0%2C.05%2C.02%2C.05%2C1 0%2C0%2C.25%2418%3AUSD%3AUSD%3AL1%2C.02%2C.05&CSAK =CSAK%3A1045738224188%3A802CA965283B88A60D3C7C5A85 9459DE

BisonInTexas
02-20-2003, 03:08 PM
Bison_Kent,

The Ogden link does not work and the newspaper requires registration to view the articles. Any chance you could summarize the article for us folks who are too lazy to register?

Craig

P.S. Is it just me, or is this thread displaying kind of funky? It is really wide so I have to scroll horizontally to get to the end of the line. All other threads here at Bisonville are displaying fine, so I don't think it is my browser...

Guest
02-20-2003, 03:16 PM
The Ogden page wasn't really any different then the Missoula paper. Here it is:



Commissioner: Expansion not likely at this time

Thr, Feb 20, 2003

By JIM BURTON
Standard-Examiner staff


OGDEN -- Big Sky Conference presidents and athletic directors will meet today in Salt Lake City to discus a number of issues, ranging from new NCAA regulations for Division I schools, to the possibility of expanding the eight-team conference.

Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton will head the meeting, slated for 10 a.m. at the Salt Lake Airport Hilton.

With the NCAA scheduled to make a number of changes in Division I-A requirements for schools and conferences, the current face of college athletics will likely take on new look within the next two or three years. Those changes are expected to affect a number of Western college and universities, and the Big Sky wants to have a clear understanding of how those changes might affect the conference, Fullerton said.

"The big item on the agenda is to make sure we have everybody on the same page and to know what cues we should be watching for over the next few years," said Fullerton. "We want to make sure that we"re way out in front of any curve. I believe a watershed is coming in about 2004."

Those changes to the athletic landscape are likely to mean expansion for the Big Sky. Earlier this month, a report said the conference would look into the possibility of bringing in both North Dakota State and South Dakota State.

Currently, both schools are members of the NCAA Division II North Central Conference. However, both are said to be exploring the possibility to moving ahead to the D I-AA level.

Neither school will be represented at today"s meeting, but Fullerton said both schools have support within the Big Sky and he expects their names to come up when the topic of expansion arises.

"They"re really attractive schools for Division I-AA," Fullerton said. "They"re land grant institutions, they"re research institutions, they"re a lot like the schools in the Big Sky. They have great athletic programs, they raise a lot of money and if you walked on to their campuses, you"d think they belong in I-AA."

However, Fullerton said he doesn"t foresee the issue of expansion moving beyond the discussion stage.

"If I were a betting man, I"d say that probably we wouldn"t get to a vote (on expansion)," said Fullerton. "If we get through (discussions) and begin to establish a direction, I could see maybe the presidents asking me to do some fact-finding, but it"s hard for me to envision a vote."


I had tested before I sent it but apparently you have to be registered in order to view it. It was a free membership.

The site doesn't look any different to me.

BisonInTexas
02-20-2003, 03:22 PM
Thanks Bison_Kent.

Not very encouraging news from either article, but I knew the Big Sky would be kind of a long shot. Interesting that most of the quotes were from the AD's and Fullerton. We'll see if the presidents accept their line of thinking or have other ideas. They run the show. I think it is a mistake to think that Idaho would willingly move down in 2004 to rejoin the Big Sky, but that is just my opinion. If Idaho does, what would make a Big Sky Conference member believe that they would not bolt again? That is one of the major selling points of the Dakota schools - if they are accepted, they will be with the league for the long haul. I don't know if you can say that about any DIA school being forced to move down, or even some of the current Big Sky members.

I guess we'll know more later today. It sounds like they have a lot to talk about if they are going to prepare for every possible contingency after 2004. This might be the first of several meetings if that is truly the case.

Craig

P.S. It is just page five of this thread that displays poorly to me. Every other page looks fine. Weird.

Guest
02-20-2003, 04:20 PM
hey texas bison get with the future. the big sky will not take you period. again your logic is faulty oh ya i forgot you have an ag tech education.

SDSUFAN
02-20-2003, 05:35 PM
Sue:
At least NDSU has a plan, thats more than can be said about Englestad U and its hockey freaks. Go read some some Zig Zigglar books. You need some positive thinking. Norman Vincent Peal is another good source.

siouxrock
02-20-2003, 09:18 PM
when u guys will be gettin there butts spanked. und will be killin everybody
what u would ratehr do
finsih last in d-1
or finish first in d-2

BisonInTexas
02-20-2003, 10:42 PM
Not good news boys and girls...

Big Sky officials meet to consider expansion
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/02/20/sports1726EST2129.DTL)

I will be interested to hear reaction from Taylor and Chapman on this one.

Craig

BisonInTexas
02-20-2003, 11:00 PM
Here is the Forum's blurb:

Big Sky officials give NDSU, SDSU a hesitant look (http://www.in-forum.com/breakingnews/article.cfm?id=120)

Chapman seems to think the game isn't over yet. I think the chances are slim that we will get 6 schools to vote to add the Dakota schools.

Craig

Guest
02-20-2003, 11:12 PM
The biggest issue is the new NCAA regulations taking effect in the near future. There will be two divisions, IA for the big-boys ~66-80 current DI teams and then there will be IAA comprising the lower tier current IA teams. It would be rare for teams to switch divisions as they do now. Meaning schools with low attendance will be dropped from IA. Schools like Idaho, Nevada, San Jose State, Ball State and N. Illinois. These schools would be prime candidates for the Sky or any other Midwest conference that may form or merge. It might make more sense to wait and see for both parties. They didn't say 'no', dwindling state budgets have some teams tight in the seams.

Bison_Kent
02-20-2003, 11:34 PM
You are right. *The conference did not say no yet. *It is just that it did not sound encouraging. *Plus this this was the preliminary meeting. *We all knew the 2 far southwest teams (Sac. St & N. Arizona) would be against the Dakota expansion. *To get in, we would need the other schools to vote in our favor. *

I don't know if that is going to happen either. *

Now the question, if not the Big Sky, what conference is next, the Gateway and Mid-Continent?

It was brought up that the Gateway would actually give closer road games then the Big Sky. *We do have a former NCC team in it, Northern Iowa. *Any thoughts?

SDSUFAN
02-20-2003, 11:49 PM
I think the Gateway would be an alternative. It seems like the travel distance in some cases will be the difference between 1500 miles and maybe 1000. Either conference the Gateway or BSC is going to require travel.

I think NDSU and SDSU accompolished something in letting the BSC know that we are interested.

If USD and UND could be talked in moving up and UNC joining in that would give 5 schools for a new conference, and would not work for the big dance for basketball though. Getting UNO to come along might also be another challenge.

More things and more shoes are to drop so I don't think we can draw any hard and fast conclusions today.

Bisonguy
02-21-2003, 12:39 AM
Here are the travel distances to NDSU and SDSU[in brackets] of the various conferences-
The Big Sky and The Gateway/MoValley/Mid-continent


Big Sky

Eastern Washington(Spokane, WA) * -1148.76 miles[1299.77 miles *] *
Idaho State(Pocatello, ID) * * * -1088.05 miles [1157.55 miles]*
Montana(Missoula, MT) * * * -951.78 miles [1102.78 miles]* *
Montana State(Bozeman, MT) *-750.37 miles[901.38 miles] *
Northern Arizona(Flagstaff, AZ) * * -1724.77 miles [1538.44 miles]
Portland State(Portland, OR) * -1499.96 miles [ 1650.97 miles *]
Sacramento St. (Sacramento, CA) -1895.76 miles [1813.56 miles]
Weber State (Ogden, UT) * -1215.94 miles [1159.80 miles]

Total miles *-10275.39 [10624.25]
Average miles-1284.42 [1328.03]

Gateway

Illinois State(Normal, IL) * * * *-693.37 miles [641.32 miles]
Indiana State (Terre Haute, IN) * * *-880.06 miles [825.92 mile]
Northern Iowa (Cedar Falls, IA) * * *-448.69 miles [348.74 miles]
Southern Illinois(Carbondale,IL) * * -940.12 miles [798.02 miles]
SW Missouri State(Springfield,MO) *-773.61 miles[587.28 miles]
Western Illinois(Macomb, IL) * * -711.35 miles [582.06 miles]
Western Kentucky(Bowling Green,KY) -1059.39 miles[1028.90 miles *]
Younstown State(Youngstouwn, OH) *-1052.88 miles[1033.23 miles]

Total miles *-6559.47 [5845.47]
Average miles-819.93 [730.68]


mileage to "other" sport conferences:

Midcontinent Conference

Centenary(Jackson, LA)-1540.35 miles[1354.02 miles]
Chicago State(Chicago,IL)-643.55 miles[ 623.90 miles]
IUPUI(Indianapolis, IN)-828.88 miles[815.55 miles]
UMKC(Kansas City, MO) -600.94 miles[ 414.61 miles]
Oakland(Rochester, MI)-954.46 miles[934.81 miles]
Oral Roberts(Tulsa,OK)-1017.96 miles[831.62 miles]
Southern Utah(Cedar City, UT)-1498.91 miles[1345.87 miles]
Valparaiso(Valparaiso, IN)-703.06 miles[683.41 miles]
Western Illinois(Macomb, IL)-711.35 miles[582.06 miles]

Total miles-8499.46[7585.85]
Average miles-944.38[842.87]

Missouri Valley Conference

Bradley(Peoria, IL)-724.20 miles[600.98 miles]
Creighton(Omaha, NE)-420.78 miles[234.45 miles]
Drake(Des Moines, IA)-476.51 miles[336.93 miles]
Evansville(Evansville, IN)-980.43 miles [837.80 miles]*
Illinois State(Normal, IL)-693.37 miles[641.32 miles]
Indiana State(Terre Haute, IN)-880.06 miles[825.92 miles]
Northern Iowa(Cedar Falls, IA)-448.69 miles[348.74 miles]
Southern Illinois(Carbondale, IL)-940.12 miles[ 798.02 miles]
Southwest Missouri State(Springfield, MO)-773.61 miles[587.28 miles]
Wichita State(Wichita, KS)- 783.75 miles[597.42 miles]

Total miles-7121.52[5808.86]

Average miles-712.15[580.89]

Horizon

Wisconsin-Milwaukee(Milawaukee,WI)-570.93 miles[ 551.27 miles]
Butler(Indianapolis,IN)-828.88 miles[815.55 miles]
Illinois-Chicago(Chicago,IL)-643.55 miles[ 623.90 miles]
Detroit(Detroit,MI)-933.54 miles[913.89 miles]
Loyola-Chicago(Chicago,IL)-643.55 miles[ 623.90 miles]
Younstown State(Youngstouwn, OH) *-1052.88 miles[1033.23 miles]
Cleveland State(Cleveland, OH)-995.17 miles[975.52 miles]
Wright State(Dayton, OH)-943.77 miles[935.26 miles]
Wisconsin-Green Bay(Green Bay, WI)- 514.15 miles[544.64 miles]

Total miles-7126.42[7017.16]

Average miles-791.82[779.68]


Recap and comparison:

Big Sky-Total miles *-10275.39 [10624.25]
Average miles-1284.42 [1328.03]

Gateway-Total miles *-6559.47 [5845.47]
Average miles-819.93 [730.68]

Mid-Continent-Total miles-8499.46[7585.85]
Average miles-944.38[842.87]

Missouri Valley-Total miles-7121.52[5808.86]

Average miles-712.15[580.89]

Horizon-Total miles-7126.42[7017.16]

Average miles-791.82[779.68]

Looks like the Missouri Valley is even closer than The Gateway(for sports other than football). I don't know if they would want to move to 12 teams, but then they could split into two divisions and travel costs would be even less. Three(four including SDSU) schools under 500 miles? That spells roadtrip to me!

Bisonguy
02-21-2003, 12:46 AM
Gene Taylor was quoted on WDAY as saying he is keeping his options open with other conferences, and making new contacts.

SDSUFAN
02-21-2003, 12:59 AM
Bison Guy:
Thanks for posting the mileages again. I know you have done this at least once, but today, those numbers are of interest. I suppose the 180 miles between Brookings and Fargo would figure in but the averages would probably be nearly the same.

As far as the Missouri Valley Conference, Creighton is having a good year and drawing about 9000 per game which hasnt happen in past years. I think getting Mo Valley to split their BB revenue 12 ways as opposed to 10 may be a hard sell. That looks to be a great conference for basketball and I dont think anyone will be leaving soon.

I wonder about SDSU if they *dont have have a conference by September 1, I dont know what will happen with the rest of NCC if they ask for a committment to stay in the NCC. If a committment is asked for I can see SDSU being an independant at D2 before making a committment to stay in the NCC for 5 or more years.

At least for SDSU, I think its going to take time to line all these conferences up.

Bison_Kent
02-21-2003, 01:04 AM
Actually, I might like NDSU in the Gateway for football. I am in Kansas so in looking at my position, SW Missouri State is only 250 miles away or so. The others aren't too far either. I think the rivalary could be there in the future with N. Iowa. It seemed like it was either N. Iowa or NDSU winning the NCC when N. Iowa was in the NCC. We have history with them. It had the national champion last year in W. Kentucky. It had a past champion in Youngstown St.

I was my personal choice first to go to the Big Sky but the Gateway after looking into isn't a bad choice with the exception of having to find a second conference for other sports.

JBB
02-21-2003, 01:23 AM
I hope NDSU goes ahead independent. I think what Brad Boyd says is true. There are going to be a lot of options in a couple of years. Even though the BSC does seem to be cooling the door isnt closed. I like the leadership being offered right now.

Imagine a conference consisting of UNC, Idaho, Nevada, N. Illinois, Ball State, NDSU and SDSU! If they are going to be strict about thiese new rules there may be other teams around too. I know they will never move down but Wyoming has come up.

In the meantime go out and look for opportunity and start looking at 2004 independent schedules. I had heard University of Montana had turned into a home/home. That would fall into line withwhat was said earlier about the BSC helping us get started and support our transition. We should get some good games from the BSC. Being totally flexable we could play all or most of them. That kind of help could get us over the hump until we do get settled.

At least we will be building and moving the process along. I dont see any problem with treating the probationary period as a time to stabalize and look for a conference. I think the division will be supportive and I think in time its going to work itself out.

Bison_Kent
02-21-2003, 01:51 AM
Yeah, being an independent for the four year provisional period might be a good thing. We could play teams of all the conferences in I-AA and maybe a I-A team once per year for a big money game. Of course, we might play more road games then home. We could go to some of the Gateway, Big Sky, and some teams in the south and east conferences. We could keep SDSU on the schedule along with N. Colorado and UC Davis. I think changing the teams that come to Fargo might keep the fan numbers high even if we are around .500.

Great idea JBB. I-AA is going to happen conference or no conference. Why not test out some of the competition before we make the jump to a conference. If an opening in one of the top conferences happens, then we could jump at. We wouldn't have to rush into anything.

I have to be honest that the Mid-Cont. Conf. does not look very inviting. It has teams that basically couldn't find another conference. Teams all over the country.

Bisonguy
02-21-2003, 04:24 AM
Yeah, the Mid-Cont. would not be any better than being an independent. I think the MoValley/Gateway looks good. The travel is greatly reduced over the Big Sky, and IF they do go to 12 teams, there's a better chance at two teams getting into the Big BB Dance. I also think NDSU is more geographically like the teams in the Gateway and MoValley. When I think of the Big Sky, I think of mountains. Last time I checked, there weren't any near Fargo.

Guest
02-21-2003, 05:05 AM
I think if they go to twelve teams they are required to have 2 divisions by NCAA rules, and many conferences see that as a bad thing. I also doubt the MVC is going to want to expand with teams coming up from d2. They have had enough problems this year with their RPI. The Gateway would be a great football conference for SDSU and NDSU though. That's pretty much our only hope besides Big Sky. For other sports Horizon and Midcon are both options. The Horizon is a good mid-major basketball league and have also had problems with their RPI so I they may not be looking for expansion. Gateway/MVC is my first choice (even other the Big Sky), but it's doubtful.

Charger
02-21-2003, 05:10 AM
I definately think the MVC and Horizon would be better for SDSU. The Big Sky doesn't seem committed enough to basketball, and basketball is big at SDSU.

Bisonguy
02-21-2003, 05:55 AM
I edited my post on page 6 of this thread to so the milaeage for SDSU in the various conferences. I also threw in the Horizon Conference, as there was mention of it. The only problem I see with the Horizon and Mid-Cont. is that there are 9 teams in those conferences. Would they want to expand to 11? Also if you look at the following map, NDSU may not want to be in the Big Sky-1 GOOD REASON NOT TO BE IN THE BIG SKY (http://clients.mapquest.com/krispy/mqinterconnect?link=find)-notice the colors used in the map ;D

NDSU_grad
02-21-2003, 03:25 PM
I think the odds of getting in the MVC would be considerably less than getting in the Big Sky. If by some miracle, they were looking to expand, it would be a way better conference than the Big Sky. We'll have to play the waiting game for now, I guess.

tony
02-21-2003, 04:04 PM
Hm, since I was never expecting the Big Sky to offer an invitation at this meeting, I'm not as discouraged as some. There are some things that have to happen before NDSU can really settle in on a conference: DI football has to finish their reorganization so that Idaho's status is figured out. The ridiculous DI waiting period for basketball has to be reduced to four years or so (even if we get no basketball money for a longer period). The Big Sky has to decide whether to expand or not - what I was hearing was that they are going to want to expand and that's good.

Gateway doesn't matter to me - not that it's not an excellent football conference - it's just that it's the other sports that need a conference.

JBB
02-21-2003, 05:15 PM
Tony,

I agree, that's the right take for this situation. This meeting was not to offer invitations. It was made clear the agenda was limited to exploring the concept of expansion.

It's good news for us that they have said expansion was desirable. Now, like our leadership is saying, its time to get on with the work at hand. Your trigger events are very logical. Something good is going to happen.

McFeely is way off base in his take on the situation. I cant imagine a guy with less insight into this situation. I'm not sure he is really tuned into things. His glass is more than half empty.

SDSUFAN
02-21-2003, 05:24 PM
I am with you Tony relating to the Big Sky. Fred Oien SDSU AD was kind of a busy man at the Augie-State game last evening so he did not get on WNAX at half-time like Steve Emming said he would. *Fred did show up after the second half started and did get interviewed in between plays. Fred made mention of the fact that the Big Sky Schools had not had any chance to see any numbers or distance figures so yesterday was just the start of considering the Dakotas.

Right now the Presidents and AD are not much different in the Hornet and Grizzle *fans in that their preception of going to the Dakotas is a long trip.

Its a long trip going west too so its about selling these schools on what SDSU and NDSU have to offer. I think our AD's will get the job done. With the Carr Studies they can just about answer any conceivable question asked. *Maybe its a good think that a vote was not forced yesterday.

Idaho to me does not want to give the appearence of failure so my guess is that they will make every effort to stay D1A. *Will they want to come back to BSC? It makes one wonder.

Lets see what happens.

JBB
02-21-2003, 05:35 PM
It makes you think that if Idaho is forced down they would not want back into the BSC. They left it once. Wouldnt they be more inclined to join a new conference with other DI schools forced down? The list may include Neveda, San Jose State, Ball State, N. Illinoise and others. I think its persumptious to assume they are a lock for the BSC if forced down. I also think that the reorganization is going to have to clearify before any real moves are made.

Trainer
02-21-2003, 05:46 PM
Hey JBB,
You oughta know by now that McFeely is a sensationalist. He likes the spotlight. His biggest thrill is to get an emotional response out of the reader. Nobody likes the bad guy, but everybody will read the bad guy's column. No what I mean?
As far as the big sky meeting thing goes; same crap, different day. We don't know anymore about the situation than we new yesterday before the meeting.

mojobison
02-21-2003, 08:24 PM
I hope NDSU gets some Gateway teams on the schedule so that the NDSU's new recruits get to play some games close to home.

siouxrock
02-21-2003, 09:11 PM
i would only move up if we were blowin out the competition. obvisly NDSU and UND arent with the football finsishes and basketball and mens b-ball
so y would u move up then?

BisonInTexas
02-21-2003, 10:20 PM
Here is a blurb from the Billings Gazette (it's near the bottom of the page so you'll have to scroll down to get to it):

Big Sky meets on expansion (http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=2&display=rednews/2003/02/21/build/sports/insideglance.inc)

While being an independent sounds like a good option, I think that the scheduling for all of the sports would be such a pain in the ass that this should be the last resort.

OTOH, the option presented by Oien at the end of the article is the option that may be most likely for NDSU and SDSU: conference affiliation. That solves the scheduling problem but takes away the draconian negatives of the probationary period. It would also be a good "try-out" for skeptical conference members to secure a permanent membership after the "watershed year" of 2004 (call me skeptical, but I predict that 2004 will come and go with DI much the same as it is now).

Question for SDSUFAN - does a conference affiliation count as "good enough" for the Board of Regents? Oien seems to infer that it is.

Craig

SDSUFAN
02-22-2003, 12:05 AM
Craig:
I went to the Board of Regents website and thought maybe there would be a download of the policy on D1 that the regents adopted. All I found was their press release. On the surface, I would tend to believe that an affiliation would not be acceptable even if it lead to joining.

It would seem to me that SDSU may have to go back for approval for the affilation. Again it may have to show that this affiliation leads to *certain membership. *I dont see him(Fred Oien) saying this without some assurance that the BOR would buy this in lieu of a membership.

The Board is, I think, *more concerned with the fianances and if the *SDSU Foundation has accompolished its goals, the Regents may waive the "provided a conference can be found to join. *That wording is very vague and sets no limits in terms of time or other specifics.

I might ask Oien, and see what he says. *Here is the offical press release that the BOR gave back in December.


News Release
Contacts: Robert T. Tad Perry, Executive Director
tadp@ris.sdbor.edu
Janelle Toman, Director of Information
janellet@ris.sdbor.edu
T: 605.773.3455
F: 605.773.5320
www.ris.sdbor.edu


For Immediate Release: Thursday, December 12, 2002

Regents Adopt Division I Athletics Policy
RAPID CITY – The South Dakota Board of Regents Thursday adopted a new athletic policy that establishes specific financial and policy requirements for any of its institutions that participate at the NCAA Division I level.

The Board also voted 6-2 to support South Dakota State University's application for Division 1-AA status, if SDSU can find an appropriate athletic conference to join.

“This policy was created in response to South Dakota State University's desire to move its NCAA program classification from Division II to Division I-AA, President Harvey C. Jewett said. “But these requirements, now that they are in effect, will apply as well to any of our institutions that may desire to switch divisions in the future.”

Jewett said the Board believes it is important to establish a detailed athletics policy so that expectations are clear regarding funding, student fees, scholarships, and other criteria. In effect, adopting this policy leaves the ultimate decision of whether to move to Division 1-AA in SDSU’s hands, as long as the institution complies with all aspects of the Board policy and an appropriate athletic conference can be found,” he said.

"The Board was willing to support the SDSU move in very large part because of the credibility of the SDSU Foundation and its strong financial commitment to the process," Jewett said.

The Regents' new policy makes it clear that support for intercollegiate athletics from the student general activity fee may only increase at the fee’s annual rate of inflation, as determined by the Regents. Additionally, general fund support for salary, benefits, or operational expenses may only increase at rates equivalent to what is otherwise appropriated for the universities’ base budgets. “This provision seeks to limit increases in student fees and state funding to the regular, ongoing costs of operating the institutions, irregardless of athletic classifications,” Jewett said.

The policy also says:

§ * * * * *An institution may not reduce the number of academic scholarships or scholarship amounts in order to fund new athletic scholarships as a Division I school.

§ * * * * *Any deficit in the intercollegiate athletic budget should be addressed by a reduction in coaches’ salaries or per diem, travel, equipment, scholarships, or athletic program closure. A formal agreement between the institution and the institution’s foundation could also provide the necessary resources to meet any deficit.

§ * * * * *Athletic scholarships cannot be awarded to any student who does not meet the institution’s standard admissions requirement.

The Board’s policy establishes that all costs for intercollegiate athletics are limited to four sources:

1. * * *student general activity fee revenue;

2. * * *state general fund resources;

3. * * *funds generated directly by athletic programs, such as gate receipts, advertising, concessions, and institutional fundraising; and

4. * * *funds transferred from the institutional foundation to support athletic programs.

The proportion of general activity fees allocated to athletic facilities at the time an institution is approved for Division I status may not be increased to fund new or expanded athletic and support facilities, the Regents’ policy states. Monies from the state’s Higher Education Facilities Fund also may not be used to fund or maintain new or expanded athletic and support facilities.

The policy also requires all of the Regents’ higher education institutions to provide annual reports on their intercollegiate athletic budgets and the academic proficiency of student athletes.

-30-

SDSUFAN
02-24-2003, 04:02 AM
Bison in Texas aka Craig:

I asked our AD your question about conference affiliation and apparently it will fly as far as the regents are concerned because in the application SDSU presented they apprarently mentioned an affliation contract and/or one for immediate membership. The board of regents bought the package that was presented. The BOR was worried about finances mostly and that is reflected in the policy that would appy to USD and NSU if they were to apply for D1 status. *Here is how I asked the question:

My question: Will the board of regent's conditions be met if we after not
finding a conference membership we chose to seek a conference affliation?
In other words would this route require another approval from the Board
of Regents? Or stated yet another way, would a confence affliation meet
the board of regents condition of finding a suitable conference?


Fred Oien's answer:

Our commitment is to have a conference contract, which may or may not, mean
immediate conference membership. *It could mean in the early years nothing
more than guarateed scheduling, which is the most critical phase we need to
have in hand." End of quote.

A side comment:
There was one SDSU alum in the legislature that tried to introduce about the same bill that got shot down in North Dakota, namely to not use student fees or state money for moving to D1. *It got shot down in committee and is dead as a door nail. The vote was 10-0 to kill the bill so that takes care of that.

Guest
02-24-2003, 06:22 AM
I was talking to one SDSU booster and he said that the majority of boosters are not for the move. But I guess it is not their choice. Is this the feeling out there?

SDSUFAN
02-24-2003, 10:57 AM
nccfan is probably a cover for being a USD fan. These are the only people who are constantly talking to negative SDSU boosters. Its wishful thinking that USD people have about the move to D1 by SDSU. The majority of boosters with cash in their pockets are not against the move. This group includes me.

Of course there are some negative naysayers who never gave a dime to begin with but now they feel they have a weighing opinion. Frankly the opinion of the negative people is not worth a cup of coffee.

SDSU is going forward with or without the naysayers. Dr. Oien mentioned during the Augie-State game that the SDSU Foundation was progessing with the extra fund raising and thats what counts more than some what some negative booster thinks.

*Where does it say you have to have a referandum on this issue? It does not and that Frank Klousek, the SDSU alum from Parkston kind of got put in his place when he introduced his bill in the legistlature. That should tell it all. So nccfan, talk all you want to negative SDSU fans and boosters, its as you said not their choice.
That does not mean these same people will become Coyote fans either.

SDSU has gotten nothing but a bum rap on the reclassification from the Argus Leader and they seem to use every opportunitity to put the move to D1 down, but its not working. This could come back to haunt the Argus.

Oh by the way, the Anti D1 pettion put forth by USD women basketball Coach Chad Lavin's sister in law, Lorna Jost, it now being used in the President's restroom. So much for USD inspired petitions.

Guest
02-24-2003, 03:21 PM
No, I am from Mpls and when the Gophers are out of town I attend games at SCSU. This is where I talked to the man whho said this about your D-IAA move. My message was just a question about the feeling of boosters. Another thing, I learned a long time ago that people who say (brag) that they have money, do not! In our area there are million dollar houses with only one level finnished. It is all an illusion. So SDSU fan don't be defensive, and please don't tell people that you have a little money. Show some class!

JBB
02-24-2003, 05:24 PM
I thought the point being made was this: There are a lot of big talkers for and against the SDSU move, but those that put up the cash have the big stick. SDSU fan wasnt bragging about having money, he was stating that he is a contributor. That gives him more credibility with the decision makers than the average talker might have. I believe he is right.

BisonInTexas
02-24-2003, 05:44 PM
Bison in Texas aka Craig:

I asked our AD your question about conference affiliation and apparently it will fly as far as the regents are concerned because in the application SDSU presented they apprarently mentioned an affliation contract and/or one for immediate membership. The board of regents bought the package that was presented. The BOR was worried about finances mostly and that is reflected in the policy that would appy to USD and NSU if they were to apply for D1 status. Here is how I asked the question:

My question: Will the board of regent's conditions be met if we after not
finding a conference membership we chose to seek a conference affliation?
In other words would this route require another approval from the Board
of Regents? Or stated yet another way, would a confence affliation meet
the board of regents condition of finding a suitable conference?


Fred Oien's answer:

Our commitment is to have a conference contract, which may or may not, mean
immediate conference membership. It could mean in the early years nothing
more than guarateed scheduling, which is the most critical phase we need to
have in hand." End of quote.

A side comment:
There was one SDSU alum in the legislature that tried to introduce about the same bill that got shot down in North Dakota, namely to not use student fees or state money for moving to D1. It got shot down in committee and is dead as a door nail. The vote was 10-0 to kill the bill so that takes care of that.




Thanks for the update SDSUFAN. It is good to know that SDSU has that flexibility in its pursuit of DI. I ulimately think that a conference affiliation in the short term is the way that NDSU and SDSU will go.

Craig

Bison_Kent
02-25-2003, 02:16 AM
SDSU Fan:

That is good to know. *That was one other reasons that I thought that NDSU & SDSU should go their own ways. *One question though, would a created conference count towards a conference affliation? *Does there need to be a certain number of teams in the conference to qualify?

I never really wanted the two to break apart but just threw out the idea. *If a new conference was created, I would like it to be western in nature such that NDSU & SDSU would be the eastern most teams. *Possible teams could be Southern Utah (current I-AA independent), Nevada State (a new university according to Sioux board), Central Oklahoma (current D2 team that has considered going to I-AA), and Northern Colorado. *This is six teams. *It would give room to grow to such schools as UND and one other. *

The reason for having a western conference would be that there are already two midwestern conferences in the Gateway and the Ohio Valley which usually sends four teams to the playoffs. *The Big Sky is really the only true western league. *Adding one more would make our odds of making the playoffs higher after the probational period. *

But one thing about a new conference, if I am not mistaken, the waiting period for the playoffs is an extra two years (7 years, not 5). *Is there anyone to confirm?

Guest
02-25-2003, 03:55 AM
The more I think about it the more I’m convinced that a new conference is the way to go. Sure, NDSU, SDSU, UNC would all find a decent home in the Big Sky but let’s not underestimate what we’ve got, some of those Sky schools do nothing for me. Is the future in commuter schools like Sac St. or PSU? For all the short comings UNC has with a basketball facility (capacity 4500) PSU and Sac St. both have gyms that hold 1,500. My high school sat 3,000 for crying out loud. Also, forget the Mid-Con, I’d like to see my school in a conference with schools of similar history, scope, focus and presence. Would anyone in the Dakotas or Colorado get excited about playing Oral Roberts or Valparasio? Oakland University, I’ve never even heard of that one before this year… The NCC was the top conference in DII, let’s keep that momentum going, sure we might have to wait a few years, but 10 years from now do you want the Bison to be playing Northern Colorado or Centenary College? My hope is that together UNC, NDSU, and SDSU can create some momentum on our own, and the others will follow. I firmly believe that once UNO, ND, etc. have to start scheduling the Chadron States, Mesa States, and Morehead States of the world they will realize IAA is where they need to be.

JBB
02-25-2003, 02:33 PM
I actually heard that a new conference of membership in a conference of 6 or morre helped the waiting period but rumor is rumor and I doubt it.

I think the NCC is dead and so be it. The only possible school waiting in the wings is UND and they are waiting to see how NDSU does. If we do well they will try and ride our coattails.