Should NDSU loose SDSU as an ally?

[Bison_Kent]

I am just wondering if NDSU might be better finding a conference without the aid of SDSU. I know it would be wise to be together if the conference has an even number of teams but what if the conference has an odd number of teams? Both the Mid-Continent and Horizon Conferences have 9 teams. It seems like they would like to add one team and one team only to get to 10. NDSU then could be an independent in football until either a new conference was created or a spot in a current conference opens with a stronger partner such as UND or N. Colorado or Idaho to be added into the football conference.

SDSU might be the anchor holding NDSU down. They are a weak team in football historically and are a strong basketball college. The Big Sky to me, seems like a football heavy conference which is why maybe adding both NDSU & SDSU looked unappealling. With the exception of Weber State, it seems like basketball is not real strong in the Big Sky. I doubt the Gateway conference would want SDSU either since it is only a football conference.

Just a thought. Any comments??

[Guest]

Kent, I’m a Northern Colorado Alum and have been curious about where our school will land in all this. The rumor down here is Mid-Con which is highly disappointing. What would be your thoughts on UNC, NDSU, SDSU, and S. Utah forming the nucleus of a new conference? Perhaps a new conference could serve as a rallying cry to other schools in the region that are on the fence to consider a move up. ND, UNO, or even some non-football schools in the Colorado area, Metro State and University of Colorado, Colorado Springs. Sure the conference would be smaller than optimal, but with a 5-year waiting period, growth could be a priority and perhaps those slots could be filled once other schools see the light and discover DI is the place they need to be.

My hope is the UNC and NDSU can continue to compete in the future, although our history is not as lengthy as that with SDSU or the Montana schools, I feel we are a University on the rise and would serve as a strong, committed competitor for years to come.

[Bison_Kent]

Paulie,

I think the new conference would be exciting if we could get enough teams included. I am surprised by your comment that N. Colorado wants to be in a conference still with NDSU. I have heard that the Bears wanted to have more teams such as S. Utah and other Colorado schools. Geographically speaking, N. Colorado always seemed out of the way in comparison to the other schools.

The waiting period for football (if I am not mistaken) for the playoffs is longer if you are a new conference or an independent after the 5 year waiting period. I think a new conference or an independent has to wait 7 or 8 years to get into the I-AA playoffs. Correct me if I am wrong. Plus, we would need at least 8 teams for just football to get an automatic bid. To get four more teams will be difficult to get even if UND and UNO would come aboard. I don't see any other teams that would want to make the jump. Who else would be there who has football?

In my opinion, both UNC and NDSU, as well as SDSU, need to find current conferences in order to be successful.

[siouxrock]

they should lose them cuz what happens if sdsu is holdin back information and getsa to a conference first

[SDSUFAN]

Kent:
Your wish may come true. The President and AD from SDSU will be coming to Fargo sometime this week. *From what I have heard they plan to stay together.

I don't particularily like your characterization that SDSU has a weak football program. The last time we topped NDSU'S 2-8 record was in 1965 when we went 1-8-1.

We have not won the NCC for some time but was close in 1996. *We have had only three losing seasons since 1990. I don't see how that can be characterized as weak, but on the other hand its not a strong program either. I would say average is more accurate.

Here is the link to the history of season results.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/Athletics/VarsitySports/Football/History/Index.cfm

[Charger]

I think SDSU will do very well in football. *I have heard many rumors about improving the facilities and support for football. *I don't think SDSU has put as much into football in the past as they could, and moving up to I-AA should change all that.

SDSUFAN: Have you heard of any improvements on the stadium or lockerooms that will be happening in the near future.

[Charger]

Just another thing. NDSU wouldn't have a chance at the Big Sky without a travel partner. Even with SDSU on their side geography may play too big of a roll.

[Bison_Kent]

SDSU Fan,

What I was trying to get to was that NDSU has had a history of winning conference and national titles in football. *SDSU strong point is basketball in winning conference titles and doing well nationally. *We might want to find like schools such for NDSU going into a strong football conference and SDSU going to a strong basketball conference. *This was my thinking as far as seperating. *Not that I have anything against SDSU but Northern Colorado or UND and NDSU might look more appealing to a football strong conference such as the Big Sky or Gateway conference. *SDSU might look more appealing to the Missouri Valley conference for example since basketball is its strong sport. *

[SDSUFAN]

Kent:
There is no doubt NDSU has great football tradition which I personally envy, but the move to D1 involves all programs, and that is what complicates this whole situation. Its going to take time and patience. NDSU and SDSU have worked close together publicly since the NCC meeting in May, and before that between the Presidents and AD's.

The BSC meeting last week is a little like the first job interview. Most of us get a rejection on the first try, unless its a very good fit. So I think the BSC is not a dead issue yet.

I am sure the the Forum and Jeff Kolpeck will be around when the two schools meet this week. So something will be made public, but maybe it won't be much more than "No comment at this time". Unless you got a wire tap to Taylor or Oien telephone its really hard to know what the options are that are being talked about and what is being considered.

The two basketball conferences Mid Continent and Horizon have 9 members and some very new to D1 so if they added two or three, UNC, NDSU and SDSU, then there could be a divisional set up formd which might save on travel costs. I think these conferences are open to that because Southern Utah are playing people like Wright State that is in Dayton Ohio. That has to be quite run.

Ever heard of Oakland University? They used to be D2.

[SDSUFAN]

I think SDSU will do very well in football. *I have heard many rumors about improving the facilities and support for football. *I don't think SDSU has put as much into football in the past as they could, and moving up to I-AA should change all that.

SDSUFAN: *Have you heard of any improvements on the stadium or lockerooms that will be happening in the near future.

The football improvements will happen even if we stay D2 which I hope will not happen. Offically I hear the football improvements are the top priority

[JBB]

I like the idea of the new conference.

[SDSUFAN]

Just been looking at D1 Conferences and noted 2 conferences with 14 members and they are split into two divisions. This is some thing I am not keen on but Conference USA and Mid America have 14 members. The divisions appear to be designed to cut travel costs. This seems to be the way to fill up a schedule also. I am thinking some of the midwest conferences such as MidContinent and Horizon and even the Gateway may be open to a similar structure. It assures that they dont fall down below the minimum six for revenue sharing basketball.

[Bison_Kent]

I agree on the Mid-Continent. I do remember Oakland, Michigan Univ. The NDSU women played them in the Elite 8 tournament in the mid 90s in basketball. This seems like a pretty good fit but we need to find 3 members and only need two for the Gateway. This might be a tough sell for one other university to come in without football in one of them. Here is a list of the all current independent DI basketball schools that might be good choices for the Mid-Continent (location by State):

Texas A&M Corpas Christie (Texas)
Centenary (Louisana)
Texas Pan American (Texas)
Morris Brown (Georgia)
Indiana-Purdue, Fort Wayne (Indiana)
David Lipscomb (Tennessee)
Savannah State (Georgia)

IPFW might be the third team. They do not have football and there are a few teams from Indiana already in the Mid-Cont.

If the Big Sky is not dead, maybe SDSU & NDSU seem to be good together. SDSU being strong in basketball and NDSU being strong in football historically speaking would be a good fit for the Big Sky to have teams good in both sports. And even if not, it might be good to stick together to keep one common opponent.

This was just a topic to get some talking on the subject.

[purplemavfan]

SDSU Fan: Mr. Oien, the Jack's AD, was interviewed on the MSU BB broadcast Saturday nightj. He said, essentially, that there is no turning back on the division I move, and also restated his desire for the NCC to move up as a league.

[Bison_Kent]

PurpleMavFan,

I don't think Augustana, St. Cloud, South Dakota, or your Mankato have a big enough fan base and/or the facalities to be in Division I. Augustana is a small private college which is suited for division II. The two Minnesota schools have good fan bases for hockey but little for any other sports and the football stadiums are not Division I. The same could be said of Nebraska-Omaha due to the Nebraska-Lincoln fans being so close and many living in Omaha. Really, UND is the only team that is in the NCC that has the facalities and fan base for DI sports which is not played on ice that hasn't already committed to Division I.

There will never be a NCC Division I conference unless there are those teams out and replaced with new ones. Sorry but this is a fact based on the current facilities and fan bases.

[SDSUFAN]

Ten years from now if SDSU and NDSU find a conference and start to progress, then I think we will see some action from the remainder of the NCC. Maybe by then it could be a workable possiblity. Right now I inclinded to agree with Kent. Hockey or other fund drives are kind of a loggerhead in thinking D1 for some of the remaining NCC members.

One of the problems UNO would have would be getting their board of regents to approve. Before Pat Behrn started winning, the BOR was a about one vote away from dropping all sports at UNO. They thought UNO was a distractor from UNL and one board member thought a commuter college should not have athletics period. Seems like Indiana-Purdue at Indianalopis has D1 basketball and they are probably as much a commuter school as UNO.

I think Fred is just trying to keep the idea a float, but I really dont think he will change anyone's mind anytime soon.

[JBB]

Looking at the way SCSU runs its athletics I really cant see how they could contemplate a move to D1. They know nothing about fund raising. They close all the vending at half time. Open the gates even before half time. Dont have any promotions going. they dont even have a taco stand or a beer joint offering a special on the back of the tickets. Their not going anywhere. Eastern Washington only seats 6,000 for football as does UNC. SCSU will have a new football stadium next year that seats 6,000, but right now they could never move with what they have.

[Guest]

JBB-you are right about scsu and the athletic department. They are the worst promoters and fundraisers in the NCC. We put out a good product despite our A.D. D-IAA is not in the universities vision and probably never will be. But that is ok. It is never even an issue. I think we like where we are. Selke field is going bye bye. Thank God, that place is a dump! (and we know it) JBB-there is a big game thurs night, you should bee there SCSU vs NDSU. Why does NDSU draw so poorly for BB?

[JBB]

ARe you talking about last weeK. *I was going to go up to SCSUfor it but pool league scheduled a tournament so I had to shoot. *It was a great game. *SCSU over the BISON men by 2? *Since then NDSU has beaten two regionally ranked teams, UNO and USD.

I havent checked the schedule but its very possible we have SCSU in Fargo thursday. *I dont have tickets and probably wont be there, but I do have 4 tickets for UND. *If I lived in Fargo I would be at the game for sure. *I hope a lot of SCSU fans make the trip.

NDSU draws pretty well at home, but they have never really had a bsketball powerhouse so the tradition of BB has never really caught on like Football. *I think it will change once we are in DI. *Its going to be a whole different deal with better players and new opponents. *I bet we will still play some of our local rivals like SCSU, UND certainly SDSU.

[tony]

NDSU doesn't draw that poorly - 3000 or so a game. Improvements to the BSA and some continuity in the program would help boost those numbers.

[Guest]

Just a quick sidebar regarding UNC’s football capacity. Currently it is only at 6,500, however, please keep in mind that when the facility was built in ’95 it was only half completed. Seating is currently only on the west side which includes box seats and a club level. The plan all along was to expand the east side as soon as a move to IAA was completed. Within the next decade capacity will be in the 15,000 neighborhood.

[siouxrock]

UND draws about 4000 a game

[purplemavfan]

Bison Kent--I was basically just reporting what was said in the interview with Oien, not insinuating that I thought the league would move up basically as it exists now. It is true that St. Cloud and MSU have a lot invested in d-1 hockey and for that reason alone will likely stay at d-2 for the foreseeable future; although who knows what will happen in a decade or so. Few around here would have thought that WCHA hockey would be a reality if you had conducted a poll in southern Minnesota about 10 years ago. For whatever reason neither school consistently draws well in football or basketball, although compared to d-2 schools nationally they don't do that badly, in basketball anyway. With all of professional sports fairly close by, and the U of M also just a little over an hour away, it has been difficult building a consistent fan base; arguable a lot of that failure has to do with poor marketing. The divison I move for NDSU should be a good one in that they are in an area that has no division I teams very near, possibly SDSU also, and of course both have good alumni/fan/financial support which is paramount. Even in the unlikely event NDSU and SDSU wanted to wait for the rest of the league (except Augustana) there is no way they would slow the process to accomodate the teams with less financial support. Probably the best course of action for UNO, St. Cloud, and MSU is to stay in divison II for the time being and strive to be among the best at that level. Financial and other realities preclude anything else.

[mojobison]

siouxrock - attendance for the last four bb games at UND: 2667, 2712, 3268, and 3017. At NDSU: 3665, 3226, 2985, and 3049. Without NDSU on UND's schedule, UND doesn't even average 3,000.

[Charger]

SDSU's home attendance for conference games-
USD - 8,481
SCSU - 5,003
UND - 6,234
NDSU - 6,341
Augie - 4,183
MSU - 4,518

Average so far 5,793
And that's with a horrible Augie team, so attendance was down this year. I'm guessing with the move to DI attendance will average over 5,000 for the whole season, not just conference games. It's possible that we could crack the top 100 for attendance in DI.

[mojobison]

Top 100 for SDSU is definitely a possibility. If the women's teams can keep their attendance up, they could get into the top 25. Continuity and success do a lot for attendance.

[JBB]

SDSUs attendance is very good. You can see the big draws. USD by far. Then NDSU and UND. I think those rivalries will somehow survive. Those schools will get all the DI action they want by playing NDSU and SDSU.

[Charger]

Women's attendance will go down by quite a bit since games are no longer double headers in DI, so I don't think we'll rank that high. *NDSU football should rank very high in I-AA attendance (maybe even top 15). *I hope SDSU can start putting up better numbers for football, but unfortunately we don't have and indoor stadium. *With good weather we definately have more fans at the games. *I'm definately jealous of the Fargo Dome.

[siouxrock]

yeh rite becuz we becuz we have hokcey on teh same nite as basketball and more people goto teh hokcey games9 11,5500 to be exact) cuz we ahev the best team in the conrty
also, we averaget the most in teh contry too for hokcey

[Guest]

Moron, SHUT UP ALREADY!!!! :-X

[tony]

I personally would want SDSU along with NDSU. They've had NDSU's back through this whole process and have proven themselves a better neighbor than any other school.

[siouxrock]

i would rather have an ally that i can trust.
not saying UND would be the best but jsut get one u can trust