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JBB
03-06-2003, 05:28 PM
This might sound crazy and I haven't really studied it but Idaho (vandals) are DI football. Their stadium only seats 16,100. For the Montana Grizzlies they only drew 14,400 (they sold out San Diego State). We can do better than that in Fargo.

Maybe the BISON and NDSU should be looking at a conference that plays DI football? There must be suitable conferences?

There might be better opportunities out there? The waiting periods wouldn't change. There must be DI ind. or existing conferences that are similar to NDSU in athletic budgets?

BisonInTexas
03-06-2003, 06:06 PM
Well, ignoring the fact that NDSU would be playing teams with much higher budgets and would be at a scholarship disadvantage (I don't think that NDSU can fund 85 scholarships for both financial and Title IX reasons), I would be against DI-A if for nothing else but for the lack of a playoff system for football - not that NDSU would ever qualify for such a system if it was DI-A. I can't stand the bowl system and the BCS - it is based on who can pull in the most ratings and attendance, not who is the better team on the field. NDSU will never be a darling of the TV networks on a national scale.

As much as I think that NDSU should be in DI-AA and not it DII for football, I think that they should not be in DI-A. They just don't fit there. The example you cited (Idaho) is one of the dregs of DIA football. They play in a no-name conference (the Sunbelt), that is regularly won by North Texas (just up the road in Denton) with a 5-6 or 6-5 record. Their reward - they get to play in the New Orleans bowl on a Tuesday night. Whoo-hoo! ::)

That is not what I want NDSU to aspire to - I would rather see them go independent in DI-AA.

Craig

jimdahl
03-06-2003, 06:46 PM
The NCAA requirements would make that very difficult:

Div. I-A teams have to meet minimum attendance requirements (17,000 people in attendance per home game, OR 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years or, 30,000 permanent seats in their stadium and average 17,000 per home game or 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years OR, be in a member conference in which at least six conference members sponsor football or more than half of football schools meet attendance criterion.
The only hope would be to get an established conference to admit NDSU. NDSU would need to provide some pretty good incentive to convince an eligible D-IA conference to admit a school that doesn't meet the attendance requirements (especially considering that the current rumors are that the attendance requirements are going to be enforced a lot more strictly in 2005).

NDSU_grad
03-06-2003, 06:54 PM
Yeah, playing in a no-name conference like the SunBelt is not the place for NDSU. I really don't think the NCAA can look too hard at those attendance requirements. I highly doubt that Idaho, Boise St., or Nevada-Reno met those requirements (I could easily be wrong, though). That's why I just can't see the NCAA all of a sudden putting their collective foot (or is it feet) down and booting these schools to I-AA. I think the Utah States, Wyomings, and Idahos of this world are in DI to stay. Just my two cents.

JBB
03-06-2003, 07:29 PM
I agree with that, but I think the new requirements would be enforced against a school aspiring to move its program up.

NDSU_grad
03-06-2003, 08:42 PM
JBB,
You could be right about that. But I guess that goes back to one of my original questions; were schools that moved up within the past five years like Nevada-Reno, Idaho, and Boise St. meeting those requirements at the time?

mojobison
03-06-2003, 09:00 PM
Idaho will not be moving down - I'd bet on it. The only conference that would make sense for NDSU is the MAC. Northern Illinois provides a pretty good example for how to move up from DI-AA to DI-A.

But, holy smokes, first things first. Getting NDSU a conference for sports other than football, getting Team Makers to raise $2 million a year, becoming a dominant DI-AA football program, getting those stupid waiting periods reduced, and getting our BB programs into the big tourney - those should be our priorities. Accomplishing all that would put NDSU into a good position to move up in football but only if DI-A reforms itself.

JBB
03-06-2003, 09:08 PM
I just hope we arent the Northern Illinois of DII ball. Right now our conference situation is certainly defined as unsettled or worse.

The only added expense of moving up is the addtional football scholarships. Everything else is already "sunk into the deal", except coaches salaries. I think they would have to go up dramatically.

Would the Mac or the Wac be any worse then the Mid Con?

BisonInTexas
03-06-2003, 09:33 PM
I just hope we arent the Northern Illinois of DII ball. Right now our conference situation is certainly defined as unsettled or worse.

The only added expense of moving up is the addtional football scholarships. Everything else is already "sunk into the deal", except coaches salaries. I think they would have to go up dramatically.

Would the Mac or the Wac be any worse then the Mid Con?

Wouldn't the expense be double the number of additional football scholarships to comply with Title IX (i.e. women's sports would have to be added)? This expense would not be trivial, and I just don't see that the payoff would be worth it. NDSU will find a conference in DIAA - Taylor has staked his job on it.

Craig

NDSU_grad
03-06-2003, 10:02 PM
This is little off topic, but the more I look at the Horizon League the more enticing it seems for our non-football sports. Butler has decent name recognition, as well as maybe Wisconsin-Green Bay (it's where Koenig from Fargo North is going) and if you check out ESPN.com it sounds like they have a decent possibility of getting an at-large team into the tournament. They currently have nine teams, so I don't know if having SDSU as a travelling partner would appeal to them or not.
About the DI thing, I agree that it should be first things first. Let's get established there and see what happens.

Bison_Kent
03-06-2003, 11:13 PM
I agree with Bison in Texas. Look at all the schools of NDSU size and fan base. They are the Idaho's, the Utah State's, and the like. Are any schools of NDSU's size and with the same amount of fan base successful? I don't think they are. There is no way NDSU could fund 85 scholorships every year and probably the fan base would be quite low because we would not be a winning team. See the example in Idaho. In my opinion, it would be a lot better to be successful at I-AA then be non-competative in I-A.

Actually, even in I-AA, we might play the likes of Nebraska or Minnesota as a big money game much like Troy State and McNeese State do. This would most likely be a guaranteed loss but I would rather see one big loss to a major school then many losses to them.

With the new TV networks, coming along such as the College Sports Channel and the Football Channel, there is going to be ample TV coverage to see the Bison across the country.

I know that Taylor will find a conference even if it means helping to create a new one. Give him some time. We have about a year to find a conference. Just like building a championship quality team, it doesn't happen overnight.

WYOBISONMAN
03-11-2003, 07:16 PM
From time to time Wyoming does field decent D1A teams and does well. The University of Wyoming is a school that is very similar to NDSU except that Wyoming takes athletics to a much higher level than does NDSU. Could NDSU be D1A??? Yes, if the fans and alumni believed in it. If Wyoming can do it NDSU can, however, it would take much commitment from the fans, alumni and administration. I don't think that level of committment is there right now. D1AA is the right thing to be doing now.

100_proof_grizzly
03-15-2003, 02:09 AM
Wyobisonman:

I would have to disagree with you regarding NDSU's ability to go DIA. I know that you have unique insight into both Wyoming and NDSU, but who is Wyoming competing with in state? The University of Wyoming is viewed as the flagship or feature of the entire state and it seems that that particular reasoning explains your admirable devotion to athletics. Hell, here in Montana, we have TWICE the population you have in Wyoming, and you guys have more resources than 2 DI schools up north from you. From an outsider's point of view, as long as UND has Ralph Engelstad (sp) supporting them, and that damned hockey program that they are always talking about, I don't think that NDSU will get the resources you will need from the state.

Some role models that you guys should avoid would be both Idaho (which shares a similar profile with NDSU and is in a state which has three times the population of North Dakota) and Troy State. Both moved up for all the wrong reasons. They wanted money and prestige and wound up with neither. In 1995 we were offered the chance to join the I-A Big West Conference with Boise State and we wisely turned it down. We might be a pretty good example of ways to build up a program that might fit your model. It's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond. Besides, we're 3-1 against I-A schools over the past 3 years.