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100_proof_grizzly
02-16-2003, 03:16 AM
I am going to put the shoe on the other foot with this question. *Awhile back on the egriz board a rather lengthy thread was started discussing your merits for joining the Big Sky Conference. *So I am going to ask you guys this question. *If you are in a happy, stable conference (regardless of level) and the University of Montana would try to get into YOUR conference, how would you feel? *Would the travel distance/market stats apply in our case? *Just wondering.

Oh and to siouxrock: *Ralph Engelstad Arena may be the best people have ever seen (your quote), and you suppossedly have a better board than everybody, but you don't have an established DI program (sorry one program out of many doesn't count for you even if it's hockey), over 20,000 fans at EVERY home game, and the fear and respect that becomes a perennial football power. *We are always looking to set up an extra home game each year so if you got the balls, give us a call.

Bison_Kent
02-16-2003, 03:38 AM
Right now, I would be happy for two teams to come into the NCC because there are only 8 teams in the conference for next year's football season. We have two open dates right now and it would be good to fill those open spots with two quality programs.

Montana and Montana State (would be the two teams that I would choose based on the hypothetical sitution 100 Proof set) are not any further away then Northern Colorado (now a former member of the NCC). After seeing the two school's stadiums and fan bases, I would not have any problem with them being members.

Both Montana and Montana State have ties to several of the NCC teams and are similarly sized schools. Both have strong past history of being competive nationally in football and basketball.

If this is any proof, I wouldn't have any problems. If we had 10 teams already, then maybe it would be tougth but with just 8 teams it would be great to get the conference back to 10 teams.

siouxrock
02-16-2003, 04:04 AM
WE GET ABOUT 12 THUSAND A GAME AT THE ALERUS
AND FOR HCOKEY 13,000
RECORD FOR B-BALL IN nd IS 19,500
WHEN THE SIOUX PLAYED D-1 POWER HOUSE KANASA
I DONT THINK KANSAS PLAYS MONTANA

BisonInTexas
02-16-2003, 04:12 AM
Personally, I want my conference to be stable and competitive. If I can add teams that raise the competition in the conference, I am all for it as a fan.

From an AD's perspective, as far as the travel distance/ market stats for Montana joining a hypothetical NCC goes, the distance factor cannot be ignored, but it has to be balanced with how it affects the gate and will it raise the profile of the conference. On both of those cases, Montana would be accepted without hesitation into any conference because of the great fans and tradition it has. A natural rivalry exists with the states of Montana and North Dakota, as evidenced by past schedules (far in the past, but when we were at the same level, the rivalry between Montana, Montana State, and NDSU was a good one), and demographics have shown that there are a large number of NDSU alumni in Montana that would like to see that rivalry renewed. As a result, ADs love to add schools that you can point to on the schedule as a sure-fire sellout, both home and away.

You also have to balance the negatives (travel) with things like stability - in this hypothetical situation is Montana looking to join for a temporary stop as it evaluates going to a different conference? What are its motives to join my conference? Is it committed to being a top flight conference member?

As a university president, I would also look at how the university lines up as far as mission and academic excellence goes. University presidents don't want to associate their schools with lesser institutions. Montana is a flagship school with excellent academic programs so their mission lines up perfectly with NDSU and UND (although UND regards DI as a four letter word at the moment).

I can see the skepticism on the part of Montana in Big Sky expansion. I know it is going to increase the travel, but their are some real positives to expansion if you get the right schools. NDSU and SDSU are both high profile institutions in their states. Higher profile than many of the current Big Sky members would ever hope to be. Expanding east is seems counter-intuitive to the Big Sky, but has your west expansion (Northridge (now gone), Portland State and Sac State) yielded much for the Big Sky? I think that NDSU and SDSU will give you much more bang for your travel buck than those schools could ever hope.

I guess we will find out this week. I know it (Big Sky expansion) is still a long shot.

Tell me, were you in favor when the Big Sky accepted PSU and Sac State in your conference? Just wondering. (Note that I am not lobbying for NDSU and SDSU to replace those schools, just asking to get a data point on recent expansion (well I guess those schools replaced others that had left, so it wasn't expansion, per se)).

Craig

P.S.
As far as siouxrock goes, just ignore her/him. She/he appears to be someone who is still in high school or junior high (check the post times and you can tell when class gets out) so I wouldn't expect much intelligent input from her/him. If you just ignore siouxrock and don't reply to her posts, she will go away.

Bisonguy
02-16-2003, 04:43 AM
I think tony is playing devil's advocate with his alter ego "siouxrock". ;) :o :P

I vote to let montana into the NCC(hypothetically). A solid athletic program only helps to strengthen a conference. The Big Sky is only a horse and a half race right now. Montana and whoever else has a decent year.

siouxrock
02-16-2003, 03:58 PM
bison chould be in the big sky becuz it is a tougher conference then the gateway

tony
02-16-2003, 05:15 PM
Hahahaha! I am definitely not siouxrock. I do think that it's somebody putting on an act though. I could check his/her email address but that just doesn't seem right.

My real alter ego runs a website called Sooville.com with the proceeds from a $1 million federal/state grant. I constantly lobby for Sooville to build giant public works projects and get more money from the government to pay for stuff. Examples of the issues I tackle at Sooville:

Is $10,000+ for every man, woman, and child in Grand Forks really enough money for flood protection? We really need $20,000 per person but we seem to have left our wallet at the site of the new 20 million dollar waterpark. And, may I ask you, why only a 20 million dollar waterpark? With an 80 million dollar football arena, a 100 million dollar hockey rink, a 300 million dollar flood protection system, an economy subsidized almost entirely by state and federal money, it seems ludicrous to spend only 20 million dollars on something so important as a waterpark - that's barely $500/person, for gosh sakes!

We at Sooville are like a bunch of trust fund babies who have never grown up and who have never gotten real jobs. That's what makes us so petulant - we don't get the respect we deserve. Now pay our bills for us so we can build some more crap, dammit!

siouxrock
02-16-2003, 05:47 PM
theres no such thing as sooville.com
ur jsut jealous becuz we haev actually played a #2 team in teh nation for mens b-ball
i am talkin about kansas
roy

100_proof_grizzly
02-16-2003, 07:08 PM
There's a difference between playing the #2 team in the country and BEATING the #17 team in the country in THEIR house. Besides we play top teams in basketball tournaments every year.

siouxrock
02-16-2003, 07:12 PM
whose #17 that the bison beat?

100_proof_grizzly
02-16-2003, 07:21 PM
BisonInTexas:

To answer your question about Northridge, Sacramento, and Portland State, we were a little shell shocked when Boise St. and Idaho left. The three schools in question were in larger media markets than anyone else in the Big Sky. I was initially for it, but now I am second guessing the decision. The reason for being shell shocked was that in the late 80's and early 90's, the Big Sky was in its heyday (in my opinion) with Nevada, Boise State, and Idaho making noise on a national level each year (Nevada was particularly tough). I as a Griz fan, view those institutions (well not Boise State) as OUR peer institutions and I believe that when the NCAA reorganization happens, we will be reunited with at least one of those schools (I think that we are one of the few schools left in I-AA that has a legitimate shot at going I-A). So going back to the three weaker schools, they were the best available at the time of expansion.

100_proof_grizzly
02-16-2003, 07:24 PM
Siouxrock:

Check MY handle. We (Montana) beat Stanford in their house right before Christmas. They were ranked #17 in the country at the time and were favored to challenge for the PAC-10 this year. We also played Michigan State and Purdue this year but lost (so I guess that makes UND better than Montana because we lost to an UNRANKED team).

SDSUFAN
02-16-2003, 09:37 PM
100 per cent Grizzly:
That's the only way to be if you are U of Montana Alum and Griz fan. In other words I like your handle.

To address your question, " If you are in a happy, stable conference (regardless of level) and the University of Montana would try to get into YOUR conference, how would you feel? *Would the travel distance/market stats apply in our case? *Just wondering.

Personally, I would be flattered if U Of Montana and MSU were to apply for membership in the NCC. It would be a great move and would force some of those current NCC members, (IE USD AND UND) who are convinced that no team in the NCC can compete at D1 *or D1AA for for football to re-evaluate their own budgets etc.
The travel, yes, would be a concern, but the world is getting smaller. I drove twice to Missoula to see my Jackrabbits take on the Griz. *We did not compete very good in 1988, although SDSU QB, Ted Wahl (Jamestown North Dakota native) did get his passing game going after the game was no longer in doubt. *One of our defensive lineman gave your starting quarter back a season ending injury. *I never attend a football game without a walkman, and that day your announcer was questioning if it was a good idea to schedule SDSU when things like that happen. (Injured QB)

Then in 1993, we caught the Grizz flat and had you down 38-7 going late into the third quarter. *One of our good line-backers Jeff Wolmgatt, had a season ending injury and he may have made some difference, but your guys on defense blocked a punt and ran it in and the Grizz came alive and won the game by one or two TD's.

I enjoyed both trips. The first trip in 1988 I took a horrible long way around, but driving up through Jamestown North Dakota to the border and then went across the Canadian plains because, I had never been there before and it was just a wonderful trip. Canada seemed like one huge west river South Dakota. Big farms, not many people and go like hell on the hiways. I never went any faster than the Canuks. *I went west until I was directly North of Glacier park and head south to Missoula. Stayed an evening in Kalispell and arrived in Missoula one day before game day.

The second trip in 1993, I went to Salt Lake City and did some genology work and headed north and went through Poctello where I have never been before. Poctello seems like a typical College town. *Coming from the South I got another view of the Bitter Root Mountains. *The Late CW singer Hoyt Axton sang the national anthem that day at *the game.

Both visits to Missoula were enjoyable. The Griz have fans and they are very proud of their team. The day after the 1993, game before I headed back, people were gushing with conversation about the prior day game and how the Griz made their great comeback.

Its sort was like Brookings after SDSU gets a big win in basketball. *Football has just been so-so since 1963 and the move to D1AA will hopefully revive old interests and more support.

My point in telling all this is that the distance that we are so fearful of and the dullness of the Dakotas are stinking thinking. The trips will be long, but if you go by car and make a vacation out of its a great time to be had and I would do it again.

I am old guy and I remember SDSU started playing Montana State as a non conference game in 1956 and I believe SDSU and MSU had a 12 year home and home contract that ended about 1968. MSU won most of the games but we competed and we would again if we were allowed to join the BSC.

I think SDSU and NDSU could only further stablize the BSC. *If MU and MSU were to consider joining the NCC, I would have no problem, but the reality of that sceniro is that MU and MSU would have drop back to D2 and why in would you want to do that?

100_proof_grizzly
02-17-2003, 12:03 AM
SDSUFAN:

I honestly don't think that either Montana schools would join the NCC unless it was a full fledged Division I conference and there was no room in other western conferences, but the logistics does make for interesting discussion. I am curious though about certain members of the NCC though. First, I know why NDSU is joining Div. I, and I know why UND isn't (why pay more for what you think you already have) and USD (we can't beat a barber's college in football or basketball so let's raise our academic standards and use that as an excuse), but I am curious as to why SDSU feels that a move is necessary. To me (and I am a former South Dakotan) the support from the boosters and alumni doesn't seem to be enough to support a DI program. Granted it would give you a monopoly on the state (especially since USD doesn't care anymore) but I was curious about whether the support would be there for the program. Also, why would N. Colorado condemn their proud (and flagship) football program to the I-AA Independent ranks where only the basketball program will have light at the end of the tunnell in the Mid-Continent conference. To me it looks like they will wind up looking like S. Utah.

On a final note, you guys need to get a message board of your own.

mojobison
02-17-2003, 05:09 AM
If a good program wanted to get into the NCC, NDSU would be for it. Better a good program than one that is always going to be complaining about how they can't be competitive.

The non-competitive programs would probably be against it. I'd have four words for them: Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference.

100_proof_grizzly
02-17-2003, 04:41 PM
mojobison:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the NCC becoming a conference of schools with DI hockey programs and non-competitive football programs? Or is that just a UND pipe dream?

SDSUFAN
02-17-2003, 05:35 PM
100 proof Grizzly

I dont know how long ago it was that you *left South Dakota, but the move to D1 may sound crazy as hell to others. When the President thinks its *a priority, then everyone that wants to be connected to the *university either has to lead or get out of the way and thats pretty much what has happened on campus.

In football, even though its been 1963 *that SDSU won the NCC, we have at times shown competitivness. The fact that Brookings is only 18,000 is not a limitation when you consider Sioux Falls is ony 55 miles away and is growing. Brookings too is growing and likely to continue to grow. So will the fan support be there? Yes and its going to take extra efforts in promotion and marketing to get the crowds. It seems like U M had Billings Or Great Falls day we played them. SDSU will have to try a number of things. We have been getting 11000 for the Beef bowl *and Hobo day. We have started promoting tailgating north of the staduim with entertain etc before the game. This has worked.

John Stieglemeire our football coach is a SDSU alum and a very likeable guy. Stieg seems to get recruits just on his personality, its just that he has not had the budget to really catch up with the Nodaks, at *least that is my opinion. *We did not get many Sodak kids this year but without too much talking we got 3 from Omaha, 1 from Lincoln and one from Ainsworth Nebraska. This is not too impressive so far, but for now, I dont see a coaching change but rather more resources available to step up the program. *The resources are long over due.

I personally was a little worried about the D1 move until I found out the SDSU Foundation was really on board and they are going to raise the extra money to make this move. To been on the Foundation board, you need to have $$$$ or know people personally with$$$$ and also give $$$$ to SDSU. These things all help and there is a committee working on the fund raising and endowments for Athletic scholarships. The total endowment for athletics is about 2.2 million which will always be there for scholarships. Another donar gave 2.7 million for athletic scholarships which will be endowed and annually that will yield about $250,000 for scholarships without selling one ticket for BB or football.

We currently offer 20 sports, *more than some of the BSC conference members. There are no plans to drop any of these. So there is an ambitious group at SDSU now. In fact the BSC is a drawback in that baseball and wrestling are not offered. Both are big at SDSU and NDSU.

Our president feels we are D1 in academics and she want to be D1 in Athletics. *This idea is slow in reception but its gaining support and we are quietly very optomistic.- So thats what has not gotten the national publicity and President Peggy Miller is a very quiet lady, but smart.

SDSUFAN
02-17-2003, 05:43 PM
mojobison:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the NCC becoming a conference of schools with DI hockey programs and non-competitive football programs? *Or is that just a UND pipe dream?

This is true with D1 hockey at St Cloud, Mankato and UNO, but I would not characterize them as has having weak football teams. USD SDSU Augustana and NDSU have not had D1 hockey and except for NDSU, its a long ways off for the Sodak members. Brookings has just gotten a new ice arena but its for more like high school and club hockey.

With strong BB programs, why have competion with Hockey like UND does. UND has over the years had great basketball, but their damn hockey matches often falls on the same dates as home games for BB. SDSU has always had to play games an hour or two early or late just because of the damn hockey going on at the same time in Grand Forks.

When you are allowed only 36 scholarships for football, you can not expect to beat the Griz, unless you have a coaching genius like Brad Smith at Chadron State. Your MSU Bobcats buddies are probably afraid to play Chadron again. Thats a long story. Chadron runs on a piggy bank budget.

JBB
02-17-2003, 06:51 PM
Im going to go a little further, but the NCC is a conference of DI hockey with DII other sports. Mn Duluth just left the NSIC to join the NCC. They have the same sports set up. There are only 2 schools, Augustana and USD that dont have DI hockey. SDSU and NDSU are leaving. The rest of the "out of class" schools try and be as competitive as they can be at DII, but DI hockey is the only sport in town. Last year at the SCSU football game one of the announcers said something like I know this isnt hockey but I wish somebody would notice this is a good football team! They finished second in the NCC. These schools try and be competitive but will remain DII and follow DII where ever it goes. UND might be the exception if they find out that a DI NDSU is too much too bear.

mojobison
02-17-2003, 06:59 PM
100_proof_grizzly, the NCC wasn't the problem, D2 was. I'd badmouth UND some, but if the post calling the whole town-slash-university a whining welfare case didn't get a rise out of anybdoy, there must not be any UND fans around to torment.

The remaining schools could become DII football powers, but for most football will be a secondary sport behind hockey with Augustana and whatever wannabe school they plug into fill for SDSU being the exception - they will just suck at everything.

siouxrock
02-17-2003, 09:48 PM
mojobison:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the NCC becoming a conference of schools with DI hockey programs and non-competitive football programs? *Or is that just a UND pipe dream?

i will correct u
the sioux had an awesome football team two years ago that won teh championchip and tehre hockey team is awesome. i dont see montana haveing a better team tehn the sioux for hockey..
wait.. they dont ahev a team
how come ndsu is movin up with out hockey?

SDSUFAN
02-17-2003, 10:24 PM
Sioux Rocks
Have you been drinking again?

siouxrock
02-17-2003, 11:45 PM
umm no
too young
but i am rite about his comment

bisononce
02-18-2003, 12:39 AM
Can we bar siouxrock from posting, such as through a moderator? Oh I know, freedom of speech and just ignore it, etc. But the crap is irritating. Takes away from serious discourse...

Bisonguy
02-18-2003, 12:44 AM
The lack of siouxrock's ban only proves the "tony's alter ego" thing again. ;) ;D

Guest
02-18-2003, 12:47 AM
The sue rock person needs to find a dictionary. Go Hornets!

Bison_Kent
02-18-2003, 12:58 AM
Boyd,

Are you are Sacramento St. fan? If so, what is the reaction of NDSU & SDSU possibly getting into the Big Sky?

siouxrock
02-18-2003, 01:09 AM
u no what i think
i think ndsu hasnt played a good d-1 school yet

Bisonguy
02-18-2003, 01:38 AM
I think you need to shut down your computer and study. You will never make it past the sixth grade if you cannot spell. ;D ::) :o

100_proof_grizzly
02-18-2003, 04:46 AM
Siouxrock:

To answer your question:

u no what i think
i think ndsu hasnt played a good d-1 school yet

That statement will be answered on September 6 in Missoula, Montana.

BisonInTexas
02-18-2003, 02:51 PM
Can we bar siouxrock from posting, such as through a moderator? Oh I know, freedom of speech and just ignore it, etc. But the crap is irritating. Takes away from serious discourse...

This is what I suggested in the Suggestions forum, but don't know if it is doable...

http://www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=site;action=display;num=1044822668

Craig

JBB
02-18-2003, 03:18 PM
Why in the worl would you want to filter it out? It is an idiot to be sure but its posts can be easily ignored and the rest of us can reply to the posts that we choose. Its not profane or abusive. One or both qualities are very common from und fans, so in a way its rather refreshing.

imported_admin
02-18-2003, 03:47 PM
OK, SiouxRock, you are being warned. If you can't keep on topic and raise your game a bit, I'll ban you. You'll get two more warnings.

However, I have added a Smack Talk board just like the Grizzly board. You can post whatever you want there - short of libel (well-short of libel). Fortunately, innuendo and gossip doesn't seem to be your style.

For the rest of you, there are no filters but I think keeping the annoyance posts to a minimum is the best policy.

-Tony

BisonInTexas
02-18-2003, 04:05 PM
Why in the worl would you want to filter it out? It is an idiot to be sure but its posts can be easily ignored and the rest of us can reply to the posts that we choose. Its not profane or abusive. One or both qualities are very common from und fans, so in a way its rather refreshing.

I can ignore the posts, but my suggestion wasn't that the filter would apply to all members but that everyone had the ability to filter what they read or don't read. siouxrock's posts would be available to anyone that wanted to read them, but if you got tired of the use of 'r' as a verb and 'u' as a pronoun, you could turn on the filter and you wouldn't have to wade throught the posts on your computer. This capability was available on mailing lists and BBS's of old (you would set up a kill file for a username and all posts by that username would be transferred to the kill file or deleted, I forget which). I am comfortable with ignoring the posts, but it does get tiresome.

The good news is that during school hours, you don't have to worry about any posts from siouxrock. After about 3:30 PM, however, the unintelligible posts about hockey and UND will start rolling in...

Craig

Guest
02-18-2003, 04:39 PM
Bison Kent: Absolutely none. Most of the discussion in SacTown is the Hornet's new football HC and opening season game against Oregon State. The local press carries a regular beat on the 49ers, Giants, A's, Raider's, King's and Hornets. So speculation about NDSU and SDSU in the Big Sky is way below the radar. I personally don't have any issues, both are respectable schools, with them being members. The only logical question is logistics. How do you compete in tennis, volleyball, track, etc. and still expect the kids to graduate with that kind of travel? If the Sky is to expand these two schools are qualified, but does the Sky want to shift East or West? The Sky can stay static until the new NCAA regulations take effect, Idaho will definately be re-classified to IAA and possibly San Jose and Nevada. No disrepect, but I would rather have Idaho, SJSU and Nevada in the SKY than NDSU or SDSU. More people, money, exposure, alumni and less travel. Go Sac State!

JBB
02-18-2003, 07:12 PM
I think it's a long come bet ( ::)I was just in Vegas for the R. Stones) that Idaho gets moved down. They make a lot of money at DI ball. I dont know about San Jose or Neveda but I think the reclassification is going to be very difficult for any school that isnt looking for a way out. Wyoming is on the qualifications bubble too, but dont expect them to move down either. Opportunity is knocking and 2 in the hand is worth 3 in the bush.

As far as the travel issue goes, you leave early in the morning instead of noon, its only a few short hours further to the Dakotas than the Montana schools. I flew out of Fargo to Las Vegas in under 3 hours.

Guest
02-18-2003, 08:10 PM
I don't think that NCAA re-classification will be a voluntary venture. The NCAA will not ask politely if anyone wants to move down a division, these schools will be mandated to move down. Idaho may make a lot of tv money from the NCAA on its basketball, but their football plays in a 16K dome that is not expandable to 30K, which is required, nor do they have the average attendnace necessary to stay in IA football. This is exactly what the NCAA is looking to do, eliminate the programs that are just draining money from the big boy football programs. Unless Idaho builds a new 30K seat football stadium and averages 5 home games with IA programs at 18K/game, they will be moved down from IA.

Guest
02-18-2003, 08:12 PM
Opportunity?? Where else do NDSU and SDSU have to go? I think it is definately a buyers market.

JBB
02-18-2003, 08:35 PM
I thought the talk about moving some programs down was just a proposal, and if passed would be based on a 5 year average. If that's true it could be at least 7 years before anything happened. I also heard the proposal called for a 15,000 home field avg over 5 years. NDSU could probably qualify for DIA ball if that is the case. We avgd over 12,000 last year on a 2-8 season. All we would have to do is give away enough tickets to get the turnstile count up. I really dont think too many programs are going to be moving down that really dont want to.

BisonMav
02-18-2003, 08:40 PM
Back into the conference scenario again. If NDSU and SDSU get into the BSC. A conference with some of the new I-AA combined with the schools moving back to I-AA from I-A could be formed. Nevada, Idaho, San Jose, Cal Davis, N Colorado, Northridge etc. Looks like a strong start to a conference there.

The other choice for the Dakota schools would be the Gateway. Possibilities of other Midwest teams being moved back to IA in the Gateway area also with Ball St, Kent etc. Another conference would have to be found for the non-football sports. Gateway is football only.

BisonInTexas
02-18-2003, 08:55 PM
I really dont think too many programs are going to be moving down that really dont want to.

I agree. I read somewhere that San Jose State said they would drop the football program before they moved down to D1AA. There will be a lot of resistance from the other schools to reclassification as well.

Craig

NDSU_grad
02-18-2003, 09:17 PM
I was just at Nevada's site and they averaged (according to their site) about 18,000 per home game. So I wouldn't look for them to move down. I remember reading something about San Jose State dropping football if they were forced to move down. That would leave Idaho, and I don't think the BSC wants a 9 team league. I think the BSC has to look at it from a risk management perspective. They would gain two flagship institutions in their respective states with very competitive DII athletic programs that would be in the Big Sky indefinitely. If the NCAA does force some of these lower tier DI schools, who's to say they would even want in the Big Sky, and would not position themselves for another jump into DI.

100_proof_grizzly
02-18-2003, 10:05 PM
BisoninTexas and NDSU Grad both hit the nails on the head. San Jose St. will join the Big West California Bus League if they get forced down to I-AA. Nevada has been mentioned as a possible addition to the Mountain West so I feel there's no chance that they'll move down. The only question mark is on Idaho. Granted with the body bag games they play each year, they do make enough money to pay all the bills. However they have had several losing seasons in a row and attendance is definately suffering so they will probably play more body bag games each year to compensate. The conference that Idaho is in, the Sun Belt is very aggressive at maintaining their I-A status. They almost have enough members to guarantee the 5 home game each year requirement, but it is still up to the schools to average over 15,000 in PAID attendence. So to break even in I-A you either need to big attendence (20,000 plus) each home game (preferably 6 or 7) or go on the road for big paydays (hence body bag games). You are either on one side of this fence or the other. My beloved Grizzlies have been mentioned as a possible member in the Sun Belt to help out the western schools in the conference (Idaho fans are lobbying for this). I-A will have a shakeup in a few years and who knows what will happen, but there will be a lot of unhappy schools left in its wake.

SDSUFAN
02-18-2003, 10:48 PM
Until the Presidents of the BSC meet on Thursday, Feb 20 and a formal press release is made public, its all very much speculation about what going to happen. *I hear this crap about media exposure and how it does not exist in the Dakotas because we are under-populated.

Well if Portland and Sacremento are such a hot media spots, why is there going to be a meeting? Why isn't Portland State filling the Rose Garden or what they call that NBA palace in BB and why did they have to move back to a D3 facility on campus for home games? Why are there not thousands filling the football stadiums at Sacremento and Portland? *It just goes to show that some institutions in large population centers never get the media attention no matter how hard they work at it.

In fact these urban institutions seem to get less publicty than what SDSU gets in the Brookings Register. I just dont buy these arguements about media and population centers. Most people in LA hardly know former BSC member Cal State-Northridge exists. Ask some one from East LA and they will have to get their atlas out to give you directions.

The BSC really cashed in on the media on the admission of Cal State-Northridge in the LA media market. The only problem, it was the wrong kind of publicty. **Perhaps some of the BSC presidents remember that former member and what they thought they would get in the form of media exposure. Instead the BSC got a black eye from a corrupt football program at Northridge.

Southern Utah has been struggling at D1AA for a number of seasons and can barely beat D2 teams because they only fund about 40 scholarships. They have had time to suceed but have not done so.

St. George, Utah is scenic but thats about all. Lets say St George is not Salt Lake City.

I am hoping and praying that the BSC presidents will give consideration to SDSU and NDSU as possible expansion members. *Thats about all we can ask for and its NDSU and SDSU turn to attempt to suceed or fail.

siouxrock
02-18-2003, 11:07 PM
y r u banning me? i was jsut postin. i am third for posting on this site. u cant throw me out. i keep this site alive mostly

Bisonguy
02-18-2003, 11:21 PM
OK, SiouxRock, you are being warned. If you can't keep on topic and raise your game a bit, I'll ban you. You'll get two more warnings.

-Tony

I will translate:

Suerocker,

U g3t 2 more w4rnings b4 ur b4nn3d.
K33p teh p0sts c00l, and u won't be b4nn3d, d00d.

For those out of junior high, I said:

You have two more warnings before you are banned. Keep the post cool, and you will not be banned, dude.

siouxrock
02-19-2003, 12:52 AM
i goto high school

Bisonguy
02-19-2003, 02:29 AM
Close enough. ::)

Guest
02-19-2003, 04:57 AM
They are having the meeting on the 20th because NDSU and SDSU asked for it. And these two schools deserve the respect to be listened to. That is not to say the Sky initiated this meeting and they have said expansion is not at the top of agendas, right now.

BisonMav
04-04-2003, 12:52 PM
According to today's Fargo Forum, the schools are finally talking about a new football conference. Similar lineup to what has been discussed in several threads in the past.

Fargo Forum:
NDSU; UNC; South Dakota State University, Southern Utah State College, Cedar City; University of California-Davis; Cal Poly-San Louis Obispo; and St. Mary’s College, Moraga, Calif.

SDSUFAN
04-04-2003, 02:32 PM
This is good news and maybe that has USD and UND re-thinking, plus the fact that a conference would be there for these two schools should they make the transition later on. The transition would then be much easier. I like the idea of UCD being included. Going to scenic San Luis Espapo will be a fun trip(Cal Poly). *

St Mary's has some old glory days back when Vince Lombardi was playing for Fordam in Ny. According to his biography, St Mary's would use the entire week traveling by train to NYC. *Fordam and St Mary's used to fill the Polo Grounds Staduim in the Big Apple, and I believe a UCD fan on D2 mentioned once that St Mary's played in bowl games during the 1930's. So indeed a worthy opponent, more so than College Of Mary *;D

The seriousness of forming a new conference will make those Big Sky snobs rethink about their notion and opposition to expansion into the Dakotas.

Bisonguy
04-04-2003, 06:24 PM
Didn't UNC want out of the NCC to avoid playing the Dakota and Minnesota schools? Now it sounds like Jim Fallis, UNC AD, and Gene Taylor are the ones leading this option. Here's the rest of the article:

NDSU, other orphans may form own league
By Jeff Kolpack
jkolpack@forumcomm.com
The Forum - 04/04/2003
Talks to create a new Division I-AA football conference to include North Dakota State University are expected to begin this spring.

NDSU Athletic Director Gene Taylor and University of Northern Colorado Athletic Director Jim Fallis say there is strong interest to form a seven-team football league.

It would include: NDSU; UNC; South Dakota State University, Southern Utah State College, Cedar City; University of California-Davis; Cal Poly-San Louis Obispo; and St. Mary’s College, Moraga, Calif.

The timing would be ideal for NDSU, SDSU, Cal-Davis and UNC, all in the process of moving to NCAA Division I. Southern Utah, Cal Poly and St. Mary’s are Division I-AA members who haven’t had success as independents. They have never made the playoffs.

Taylor and Fallis say they are targeting play to begin in 2004-05.

“We want to put together a conference call or a meeting, hopefully before the end of the school year,” Taylor said.

That does not mean NDSU would end its pursuit to enter the Big Sky Conference.

“If all of a sudden the Big Sky comes back this fall and says, ‘You’re in,’ then we have to take the best option available to us,” Taylor said.

But a new football league would allow for other sports to enter the Mid-Continent Conference. That league, which includes Southern Utah, does not have football.

Those in the Mid-Continent Conference include: Centenary College, Shreveport, La.; Chicago State University; Indiana University-Purdue University, Indianapolis; University of Missouri-Kansas City; Oakland University, Rochester, Mich.; Oral Roberts University, Tulsa, Okla.; Southern Utah; Valparaiso University, Indiana; and Western Illinois University, Macomb. “All options are still on the table,” said SDSU Athletic Director Fred Oien. “Nobody has told us ‘no.’”

Fallis acquired a copy of the Division I-AA Gateway Football Conference bylaws and said he would put together a list of rules and regulations.

“It makes sense for all of us,” Fallis said. “It would be stupid not to because we’re all going to be playing each other anyway.”

UNC will play an independent schedule this fall. Cal-Davis is a Division II independent that plays several I-AA opponents each year.

Cal Poly Athletic Director John McCutcheon says his school isn’t unhappy playing an independent schedule.

“But we would prefer to be in a league,” he said. “We always keep our options open in that area. If there is an interest from a group of schools, we would entertain those discussions.”

It would also help a school like Cal Poly gain a playoff bid as an automatic qualifier. Eight conferences are granted automatic qualifier status in the 16-team Division I-AA playoff field. The Patriot League in 1997 was the last conference to gain that acceptance.

If a new league is formed, however, it would probably take at least five years to gain automatic-qualifier status.

“Those are things we need to talk about,” Taylor said.

A conference needs at least six established Division I schools to immediately gain automatic-qualifier distinction. As for a potential name for the league, Fallis said, “That is the least of my worries right now. I just want to get this thing off the ground by 04-05.”

SDSUFAN
04-04-2003, 09:49 PM
I think the dialogue is just beginning. After the final four is over, more is suppose to start as indicated in a Campus article below:


SDSU
College Publisher

Oien admits Big Sky could be out of reach for SDSU

By Justin R. Lessman
The recent formation of a Division I transition team has taken SDSU one step closer to athletic reclassification. Now all that is needed is a suitable conference.

Officials thought the most suitable candidate was the Big Sky Conference, just to the west. However, in a recent meeting of conference officials, it was decided that, although expansion was an issue of interest, the Dakotas were an unlikely target.

Athletic Director Fred Oien acknowledged that the Big Sky Conference's position on expansion into the Dakotas was not as positive as he had hoped for, but he remains cautiously optimistic.

"The Big Sky indicated that they were not prepared for expansion in our direction at this time," he said. "Currently, discussions with other conferences are on hold until the conclusion of the Final Four. Then they will start up."

The goal is to have a conference in place by Sept. 1. On that day, SDSU must notify the North Central Conference of its plans for the 2004-05 year. Additionally, on Dec. 1, the university must submit a formal letter of intent to the NCAA applying for DI reclassification.

Oien said he has no knowledge of any visits between SDSU and potential conferences slated at this time.

Oien said the DI transition team was relatively easy to install.

"The transition team is just our leadership team that was in place during the initial Division I study," he said. "We simply asked them to continue on as our transition team, and they agreed."

The team is made up of the Student Association president, alumni, SDSU Foundation representatives and members of the academic faculty, among others.

Oien said the team meets with consultants to share information and strategy with athletic administration staff. The team's ultimate goal is to draft an official strategy plan that outlines obstacles to the shift from DII and suggesting ways to overcome them.

"We expect a draft of the strategy plan sometime near the end of May," Oien said.

As far as a potential conference is concerned, Oien said the search goes on.

"The search for a conference continues on a daily basis," he said. "We continue to work closely with North Dakota State University in an effort to secure conference affiliation suitable to us both."

Paulie
04-05-2003, 02:05 AM
Travel isn't a conern for UNC ultimatly. They have to travel whomever they play. There really are no IAA schools in the area... Weber, N. AZ... that's still like 800 miles. We have always had to travel and will always have to travel. I like this idea of a new conference, a group of California schools and a group more in the middle of the country, CO, UT, ND, SD... this could be good. Also, when the Bison come to Greeley Kent can drive in from Kansas.

Paulie
04-05-2003, 02:07 AM
Oh, and regarding UNC and travel in the NCC. It wasn't UNC's convern about the travel, they joined the conference back in '82 knowing full well the travel involved. The problem was mant NCC schools hated coming to Greeley. It's understandable, it is quite a haul from anyplace in the NCC with the small acception of Omaha and that's still about 700 miles.

Bison_Kent
04-05-2003, 02:25 AM
Paulie,

You are right but it is still is quite the drive from where I am, near Wichita. I would hope the Broncos were playing at home so I could get a double football weekend with the Bison in Greeley Saturday and catching a Broncos game Sunday in Denver.

I like this as the second option over the the Gateway (Even though the Gateway would mean a lot of driveable road games for me.)

There was some rule about having just eight automatic bids for the I-AA playoffs. I think I saw this on the I-AA.org message board. I am not sure of the validity on this.

Paulie
04-05-2003, 02:48 AM
Kent, don't you think that with the 7 teams we have now that this would motivate either ND or SD to join? Who knows, someone else might even come out of the woodwork and want to join. It's like Field of Dreams, if we build it they will come... I think we might start out with 7 teams but give it a couple years and we'll have 8, 9, who knows how many.

JBB
04-05-2003, 05:02 AM
Why doesnt it go full sports with some football only members like Cal Davis?

Im thinking USD is going to add hockey and remain in the DI hockey/DII NCC.

Charger
04-05-2003, 10:18 AM
I find it hard to believe that USD would add DI hockey. First of all they don't have an ice rink in Vermillion for them to practice on, the closest rink would probably be in Sioux City (although I heard Yankton is building one). There is no great support for hockey in the area since there are no youth teams. South Dakota is not producing any college level hockey talent like Minnesota or North Dakota. They would not get into a decent conference under the current circumstances and I think it would be a flop.

100_proof_grizzly
04-05-2003, 03:19 PM
As an outsider looking in on your situation, I have learned a lot and am glad to see that you guys are looking at starting your own conference. I was one of the people that suggested you form a conference with SUU and the California schools. I am also intrigued by this new news regarding USD (I am a native South Dakotan after all). Anyway to tie all this together, I thought of a possible problem. I read in a post that one of your athletic directors (?) received a bylaw page from the Gateway Conference to use as a template. One thing though is that all of the schools in the Gateway have a similar committment to athletics. The group of schools that you (and me) have mentioned as a possible Western Conference Coalition, only NDSU, SDSU, Cal Davis, and UNC have shown a demostrated effort in football. There is a reason that Cal Poly and St. Mary's aren't in a conference. Both Cal Poly, St. Mary's and S. Utah offer a very limited number of scholarships for football (S. Utah at least offers a reasonable amount). I am curious as to whether the conference bylaws would limit scholarships to substantially less than the 63 allowed to accommodate those three schools. Which brings me back to USD. I am sure that USD has studied Cal-Poly and St. Mary's and seen how much their programs cost (which to my best estimation isn't much more than their existing expenses). If they can get "DI status" for not much more cost than what they are now, I am sure that they will get on board (hence a previous poster's suggestion of the Pioneer league). All in all, the conference isn't too badly scattered (compared to the Sun Belt and WAC), but I am concerned with the meshing of all of these schools with different philosophies. I think that either of these situations has to give and only one is good. The first situation is the 3 smaller schools decide to invest more in their programs and everyone is happy or those 3 schools dictate how many scholarships are offered and the conference as a whole isn't competitive at all.
One final note, I wouldn't count on receiving an automatic bid for the playoffs with this line up for awhile. The reason is that the I-AA football committee has a stipulation that 50% of the schools in the playoffs come from the automatic qualifier of a conference and the other 50% are at large. I would think that you guys would be looking at the at large entrys (if at all) for the first couple of years. In conclusion (damn this is starting to look like a college thesis), I thought that the mixing of the Dakota schools with the current I-AA Independents for a conference would be a good idea, but I forgot about each schools philosophy on athletics. If all can get along, it should be a good conference, but there are issues to work out.

Bison_Kent
04-05-2003, 04:07 PM
I might agree with 100 Proof. I wonder what the two California teams position would be on scholorship numbers. I would hope they would be at the maximum. They might turn into a team like Morningside and not be able to compete in the new conference.

I do wonder though if this would be just a temporary conference until the Division I-A teams move down in 3-4 years to see what schools there will be in I-AA ranks. I still think that an all-sport conference would be the best, whether that be an existing conference or another new one.