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Charger
05-01-2003, 11:08 PM
Since admittence into the Big Sky is looking kind of bleek (atleast for a couple years), I think SDSU and NDSU will pursue the Mid-Con. The Missouri Valley is trying to heighten their conference, and adding two D2 schools will definately not help. The Horizon League would be a great league to be in for basketball, but I'm also not sure if they would take two teams new to DI. So with the Big Sky, Missouri Valley and Horizon out of the picture it looks like Mid-Con would be the one left standing. They have recently added Southern Utah in 1997 and both IUPUI and Oakland in 1998. All three of these universities were necomers to DI. This is what the Mid-Con said about expanding to the Dakotas in an email.


Generally speaking, the Mid-Con does not comment publically about membership issues. We've seen some people get themselves into some sticky messes by doing that.

However, as the Director of Media Relations for the Mid-Con, I can tell you that I have fielded phone calls from media outlets in that region inquiring about the same thing, so you may not be far off. We told them the same thing that I told you, but if they're investigating, there must be some interest from either us or them.

Thanks for your interest in the Mid-Con.

Tony Hamilton
Mid-Con Media Relations


Not much information, but I still think they would be willing to take us.

Bison_Kent
05-17-2003, 11:27 AM
The more you think about it, the more the Mid-Cont. seems likely. It may not be the top choice as it does not have all sports like the Big Sky would. However, it may be a good stepping stone for the DI transition. Former DII teams like Oakland (MI) and IUPUI are in the conference. Actually, the Mid-Cont. may be better at all sports (with the exception of football since it does not have it) then the Big Sky. I think teams in the Mid-Cont. have made a good dent in the NCAA men's basketball tournament, most notably Valpariso. I know Weber St. made a run 5-6 years ago but Valpo has done it a couple of times. As far as other sports go, Oral Roberts is traditionally a baseball power and has made it to several College World Series. And all the other sports seem to be equal or better then that of the Big Sky.

I think this would be a good conference to get into, at least to begin our Division I journey. It may be said that this conference is very spread out as well but as a previous post illustrated, it wouldn't be any worse then the Big Sky as far as overall milage goes. Plus, the Mid-Cont. is in some major metro areas like Chicago, Detroit, Kansas City, Indianapolis and to a lesser degree Tulsa, OK and Shevport, LA. I am sure we have alumni in all these major cities that would love to see the Bison play in the city they are now living in.

Bisonguy
05-17-2003, 03:25 PM
I would want the Mid-Cont. to have two divisions if NDSU becomes a member. They need three schools (NDSU, SDSU, and UNC?) to qualify for two divisions. This would reduce travel costs and the geographic diversity issue of the Mid-Cont. The Mid-Cont. does offer all of NDSU's current sports, except for football and wrestling. Both football and wrestling have talked about making a new conference, so maybe the talks with the Mid-Cont. have gone farther than anybody knows about.

Bison_Kent
05-17-2003, 03:42 PM
Bisonguy,

I think that would be the best to have divisions. Currently, the Mid-Cont. has nine schools and dividing into two 6 team divisions would be best. There could be a West and East Divisions or North and South Divisions. I am not sure which would be better. I would think we might want to be in the division with SDSU, Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, Missouri-Kansas City, and Oral Roberts (Tulsa, OK) as the Western Division. The Eastern Division would then have Chicago State, Valpariso (IN), Centenary (Sheveport, LA), Western Illinios, Oakland (MI), IUPUI (Indianapolis).

Bisonguy
05-17-2003, 03:55 PM
Bison_Kent,

You just want to see the Bison play without having to travel too far, don't you? ;)

Bison_Kent
05-17-2003, 04:33 PM
You are correct. Kansas City and Tulsa are both about 2 1/2 hour drives from where is am in Kansas. But not just for personal reasons, I think the Mid-Cont. might be good choice. It has a history of taking DII teams in the past. It also will allow NDSU to grow into Division I while having set opponents to play in non-football sports. Football can be in the new Western based football only conference and have S. Utah, SDSU, and N. Colorado as common opponents for all sports. The Mid-
Cont. is a growing conference and having NDSU, SDSU, and N. Colorado into the mix it might be one of the top mid-major conferences in the future.

Bison_Kent
05-18-2003, 12:15 AM
Here is a link to a map to show where all the schools are located.

http://members.cox.net/kschmidt16/mid-cont.doc

Bisonguy
05-18-2003, 04:09 PM
Once again, we talk about it and The Forum reports it:

Mid-Continent possible D-I match for NDSU
(http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=33624)

and Mid-Con accepted Centenary quickly
(http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=33632)

JBB
05-18-2003, 06:58 PM
I hope this opens the door for SDSU, UNC and NDSU. It would be a good home for us and provide some new and exciting places to go--Kansas City Here I come.

I thought the mention of all the changes and how they would affect mid majors (I think the NCC schools are now considered among them?) was very interesting. The shake up in the ACC/Big East may result in changes affording us opportunity that does not now seem to exist. This may cause NDSU to wait. Its hard to say.

Bison_Kent
05-19-2003, 02:19 AM
Here are the basketball arena capacities of the current Mid-Continent schools. Looks like NDSU & SDSU would currently be on the top side of the conference as far as capacity goes.

School Arena Capacity
Chicago St. Dickens Athletic Center 2,500
IU-PUI IU-PUI Gym 2,000
Missouri-K.C. Municipal Auditorium 9,287
Oakland Oakland Arena 3,000
Oral Roberts Mabee Center 10,575
Southern Utah Centrum 5,300
Valparaiso Athletics-Recreation Center 4,500
Western Ill. Western Hall 5,139
Cententary Gold Dome 3,000

ORUTerry
05-20-2003, 03:51 AM
Thought I might add some information about the Mid-Con.... Bison-Kent has shared some interesting data about NDSU.

The Mid-Con, as you have noted, is spread out geographically: Oakland (near Detroit), Centenary (LA), ORU (Tulsa) and Southern Utah (Cedar City, UT!!!... you can't get there from here). Chicago State is a weak athletic program that will either drop out of the conference or be asked to leave if it does not do a better job of support its programs. (They average about 200 people at their basketball games.) SUU is trying frantically to get out of the league because of travel costs, but are having trouble finding a taker.

The league basically focuses on basketball; ORU absolutely dominates in baseball (they are 19-1 in league play). Most of the schools play in small arenas that are not much more than high school gyms. Valpo has dominated the league in men's basketball over the last 7-8 years - winning or sharing the league championship. They also have won the majority of tournament championships and represented the conference in the NCAA's; IUPUI won the tourny this year.

ORU has an enrollment of around 4,500 and is located in South Tulsa. Their arena, the Mabee Center, seats 10,500; their baseball field is one of the finest in the country. Both programs have a history of playing in post-season. For basketball it has been 20 years since they participated in the NCAA tournament; in the mid-70's they advanced to the Elite Eight. The baseball team is a perenial fixture in the NCAA regionals and has advanced to the College World Series several times.

I suspect that the Mid-Con is seriously looking to expand given the turmoil that threatens to engulf college athletic conferences.... and the fact that SUU and CSU could be leaving. The resulting expansion would create a Northern and Southern league.

Bisonguy
05-20-2003, 05:06 AM
ORUTerry,

Nice to have you aboard! It's interesting to hear about Southern Utah possibly leaving the Mid-Continent. Most Bison fans have been holding our breaths for the Big Sky Conference, primarily for football reasons. The Mid-Continent, however, would be a much better fit for NDSU/SDSU for the rest of our programs, as it offers more sports we currently participate in. *

The winters aren't that bad. You just need a decent coat, some gloves, and a hat (not a baseball cap) and you'll be fine. Think Chicago and subtract about 15 degrees.

NDSU_grad
05-20-2003, 04:39 PM
ORUTerry,
I would also like to welcome you to Bisonville. The more I think I about the Mid-Con, the more I think it would be alright. SDSU and NDSU would be strong members, as both have very good athletic programs, and SDSU could compete with many mid-major basketball programs right now. NDSU has not been historically strong in men's basketball, but we have a great young coach who has really brought back some fire into that program. We were very close to making the postseason this year, and we should be decent this year. I hope to hear more from you.

WYOBISONMAN
05-20-2003, 07:06 PM
I would not be in favor of the Mid-Con. *I think it is a terribly weak conference that would offer NDSU little. *It would in a way cheapen our athletic programs. *I would support looking at either forming a new conference with some of the stronger schools that are coming out of D2, or remaining independent until the clouds over the Big Sky clear a bit more. *The Mid-Con smacks of a desparate jump to find conference affiliation and to me it is a step down from the NCC. I am just not in favor of this one.

Bison_Kent
05-20-2003, 10:13 PM
WyoBisonMan,

I would agree with if the Big Sky was willing to take us in. However, it appears they are not. Having an independent schedule for football would be rather easy. However, basketball and baseball might be another story; especially in the heat of conference play. Who is going to want to play a team that might not even count as a DI opponent in the middle of the conference playing days. Football, you can always find someone who has an off-week to play even in the conference play months. Basketball and baseball are not as likely.

I am not saying that NDSU & SDSU should forever be in the Mid-Con but to begin the DI journey, it might not be too bad to know some of the opponents we would be playing. I agree that the Big Sky would be the ultimate goal but that goal might have to wait until our probationary period is up. I say why not play in a conference where we would be the top dogs to begin with; at least facility-wise.

Bisonguy
05-20-2003, 10:51 PM
NDSU and SDSU also need to look at the scheduling needs of volleyball, track and field, golf, etc. The Mid-Continent offers more of NDSU's sports than the Big Sky does.

Charger
05-21-2003, 02:45 AM
I would not be in favor of the Mid-Con. *I think it is a terribly weak conference that would offer NDSU little. *It would in a way cheapen our athletic programs. *I would support looking at either forming a new conference with some of the stronger schools that are coming out of D2, or remaining independent until the clouds over the Big Sky clear a bit more. *The Mid-Con smacks of a desparate jump to find conference affiliation and to me it is a step down from the NCC. * I am just not in favor of this one.
What schools coming out of D2 do you recommend? Cal-Davis is going to the Big West, UNC is looking at the Mid-Con I believe, and I don't know of any other stronger schools coming out of D2. I wish there was a better option, but we need a conference and there doesn't seem to be any better options.

WYOBISONMAN
05-21-2003, 05:50 PM
I think that we still may see UND leaving D2 and if another regional school does the same you would have the beginnings of a new D1AA conference that could have all sports. Perhaps Davis would reconsider thier affiliation if that were to happen. If we were not in the Big Sky I would love to see NDSU, SDSU, UND, UNC, Southern Utah and Davis form the base of a new conference. I would rather stay independent and work towards a scenario such as this, or look to the Big Sky than to head to the Mid-Con.

Bison_Kent
05-22-2003, 03:49 AM
WyoBisonMan,

I might agree if UND and USD were wanting to go DI. But they aren't. We have to do something in the mean time. The MCC would not be long term, probably no more then 5-7 years. At that time, new teams like UND & possibly USD might look to go up.

The only reason I would propose going to the MCC is that we need a DI schedule in basketball and baseball and softball. I think it would be rather difficult to get enough teams to schedule games for those sports without some kind of conference association.

Yes, the MCC is the last pick by all of us. But it might be our only choice.

In football, we still will be able to have a lot of scheduling flexibility even with the proposed Football Only league. We will be able to schedule good I-AA teams for home-home deals like we did with Montana.

BisonMav
05-22-2003, 12:49 PM
I really don't see UND being Division I in anything but hockey. I know Lennon has been quoted in a Winnipeg paper telling a recruit UND would be I-AA in three years, but I don't believe it will happen. Does the REA really make that much profit? There is competition between the Alerus and Ralph for events. The new women's hockey program needs to be funded. UND could not afford Wrestling, how are they going to afford 27 more football scholarships? USD is talking Division I hockey will staying DII in other sports. The New NCC. Auggie may be the only non-hockey school left.
Maybe by adding the NCC teams, the Mid-Con will become a stronger more stable conference.

BisonMav
06-16-2003, 12:35 PM
From the Forum, Taylor did talk with some Mid-Con AD's. Still waiting on a commissioner.


By Jeff Kolpack
jkolpack@forumcomm.com
The Forum - 06/16/2003

On the other hand, Taylor said he had informal talks with three athletic directors from Mid-Continent schools this weekend.

“All of them were non-committal,” Taylor said. “They said they’re interested in expansion and they said ‘we’re interested in you guys.’ But they’re not going to do anything until they get a commissioner hired.” That could come this week.

“There are still a lot of unknowns,” Taylor said.

BisonMav
06-17-2003, 12:38 PM
From the Gateway board, they are saying the Mid Con has a new commissioner. Let the talks begin.


A release today indicates that Ron Bertovich will be the new commissioner. Formerly of the Atlantic 10, and currently in the NHL. According to the release, each and every member has pledged their commitment to the Mid Con. He takes over July 14.

Bison_Kent
06-17-2003, 04:42 PM
Here is the report on Ron Bertovich from the Mid-Con page. He has a very impressive resume.

http://www.mid-con.com/sports/news/release.asp?RELEASE_ID=1567

WYOBISONMAN
06-18-2003, 08:21 AM
It does not excite me in the least, but it looks like we are exploring the Mid-Con further. This is from today's Fargo Forum.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NDSU targets Mid-Continent head
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By Jeff Kolpack

The Forum - 06/18/2003

North Dakota State athletic director Gene Taylor has never met Ron Bertovich, the new commissioner of the Mid-Continent Conference. That could change.

Bertovich was hired Tuesday by the Presidents Council of the nine-team league. If expansion is a league priority, then it appears NDSU may try to get noticed.

“Maybe at least we’ll introduce ourselves to him and let him know we’re interested,” Taylor said.

The Mid-Con has been without a commissioner since March when Jon Steinbrecher resigned to take the same position with the Ohio Valley Conference.

Bertovich begins July 14. He was the executive vice president of administration for the NHL’s Buffalo Sabres. Before that, he was the commissioner of the Atlantic 10 Conference for eight years.

He is the fourth commissioner in the 21-year history of the Mid-Con. It has nine members: Centenary College (La.), Chicago State, Indiana-Purdue Indianapolis, Missouri-Kansas City, Oakland University (Mich.), Oral Roberts (Okla.), Southern Utah, Valparaiso (Ind.) and Western Illinois.

League athletic directors say they’re not happy with nine teams, preferring to get to 10 or 12, mostly for scheduling purposes.

“I don’t know if they’ll make that a priority for him or what,” Taylor said. “At least he will now be in place and start driving the ship if expansion is what they want to do.”

If expansion is a priority, NDSU, South Dakota State and Northern Colorado are considered three prime contenders for membership. The league has championships in 19 sports, but does not offer football.

NDSU and Northern Colorado have already notified the North Central Conference and the NCAA of their intent to move to Division I. South Dakota State has not.

Taylor said if the Mid-Con does consider expansion, NDSU is not as much in a time-line crunch as SDSU. Its Division I move is subject to conference affiliation.

NDSU, most likely, will be an independent in 2004-05 -- its first year of Division I reclassification.

SDSUFAN
06-18-2003, 11:44 AM
It does not excite me in the least, but it looks like we are exploring the Mid-Con further. *This is from today's Fargo Forum.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NDSU targets Mid-Continent head
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By Jeff Kolpack

The Forum - 06/18/2003

NDSU and Northern Colorado have already notified the North Central Conference and the NCAA of their intent to move to Division I. South Dakota State has not.

Taylor said if the Mid-Con does consider expansion, NDSU is not as much in a time-line crunch as SDSU. Its Division I move is subject to conference affiliation.

NDSU, most likely, will be an independent in 2004-05 -- its first year of Division I reclassification.




Taylor's comments about SDSU are a little troubling to me and what he is saying is probably very correct. Hopefully the crunch situation will be resolved before Sept 1. I believe President Miller really has this matter to decide. She will have to deal with the fall out if people start screaming.

The three year moritoruim imposed by the NCC is unclear as to what the consequences are if you don't go along with the three deal. I am not sure if it's 15000 a year or a game to get out of that deal. If we kept UND, USD and Augie on the schedules, we might be able to reduce that penalty if we choice to go D1AA independant. If Mid Continent can show some serious interest, by Sept 1, I think that is all we need. Hard to tell.

The most encouraging though is the Mid Continent desire to expand to 12 membes

Bison_Kent
06-18-2003, 06:14 PM
SDSUFan,

I am not sure if the Mid-Con will expand to 10 or 12 teams. The best expansion hope is 12 for SDSU. But I am not sure they will announce any expansion efforts in the next 2+ months. SDSU might have announce that they will move to DI but in year 2005 instead of 2004. This would give the Mid-Con a year to decide on which direction and number it wants to expand. I think SDSU really isn't quite as ready as NDSU to move up in the fan support and financial contributions and the facilities. I will grant that Frost Arena is a premier basketball facility and is better then the Bison Sports Arena but SDSU's football, baseball, track, and volleyball facilites probably have some improving to do to before being classified as DI level facilities. NDSU's FargoDome, Newman Stadium, and the Track/Soccer Stadium are all under 15 years old and would be DI and DI-AA caliber facilites.

I hope I am wrong on this as SDSU would be a great travel partner for NDSU (since UND is unwilling to move up). But I just have a feeling the DI move for SDSU might be a year later (if that) then NDSU in its move. Also, waiting at SDSU might drum up more support from alumni and South Dakotans to lay a plan together to get improvements to the stadiums and arenas it might need to move up.

SDSUFAN
06-18-2003, 08:41 PM
Bison Kent:
What do you mean the the Mid Continent will not expand to 12 teams, *Jeff Kolpeck report this:

"League athletic directors say they’re not happy with nine teams, preferring to get to 10 or 12, mostly for scheduling purposes"

And how do you know what's going on SDSU? You sound like you know more than I do about my own alma mater. *You have no idea about what going on their so your comments carry no weight or validity. *We will make up our own minds without your help, Thank you

We know we have a number of upgrades to do in terms of facilities, but that does not have to be done by Sept 1.

Bison_Kent
06-18-2003, 10:33 PM
SDSU Fan,

Sorry about that but SDSU requires a conference is found before moving up. This might mean SDSU will have to wait a year. All I was saying is that might help drum up more support for the move and lay together plans to do some facility upgrades. I based my opinion on the fact that I have not heard any reports on any new facility improves from you or any other SDSU fans. If I am wrong, please forgive me and please note the improvements.

As far as the 12 teams goes, you just answered your own question. The report said 10 or 12 teams. It did not say just 10 or just 12. That is a decision the Mid-Con will make. We don't know yet. All I was saying was if they decide just 10 teams, who is the one team they are going to add? I might be a little biased but I think they would choose NDSU over SDSU based on facilities, support to the school's atheletic fund, and being in a better media exposure area.

I hope SDSU and NDSU join together and they expand to 12 schools but I was just laying out the fact if the Mid-Con only expands by one school, NDSU might get the node over SDSU.

SDSUFAN
06-19-2003, 08:56 PM
Kent:
The big thing going on at SDSU right now is the completion of the strategic plan that will have to be submitted to the NCAA when they apply for D1 membership. The strategic plan addresses issues that you raised about facilities, fan support and fund raising. I have a copy of the Carr Report and all these issues are addressed in that report. The strategic plan attempts to address all the concerns brought up. *

The conference requirement has been a self imposed requirement as I have found out from a fairly reliable source.
If by Sept 1, there is no firm commitment to join a conference, SDSU could still move forward as an independant just as NDSU is doing.
SDSU is starting on a facility for baseball this summer. Granted it probably will not be as eleborate as Newman, but it will be a facilty north of Coughlin and I have no idea what it will have for permanate seating.

As far as for Volleyball that is played in Frost, so we may have one up on NDSU on that small point.

The other point is that basketball is the major revenue sport of the Mid Contential Conference. I dont think they care about the Fablous FargoDome unless NDSU decides to play basketball over their. I believe NDSU has to pay the City Of Fargo each time an event his held their. After all its their building. I recall reading one of the critizisms that Carr had about your facilities was the lighting in Bison Sports Center and other needed improvements. If those improvements are made, then I dont see BB being played at the FargoDome. So I think our chances of getting the MidContential are as good as that of NDSU.

I guess my point is that I dont agree totally with what you said, but agree to the fact that we disagree.

Whether we move or dont move by Sept 1 is a decision that the president must make. The Conference requirement *has been *etched in stone, but it may not be a requirement in the final anaylsis.

The fact that AD's had a productive meeting with serious intent to form a new football conference may be enough to move forward.

As I stated above, the strategic plan will kind of be the tale teller this summer. It is suppose to be completed in August, so that is when you will know for sure what our plans are for 2004-2005. ( Move to D1AA or stay D2).

Granted its too much to expect conference membership by Sept 1, but the intents that are out there may be enough. Feasibilty in $$$ will be the big part of *when we move.

JBB
06-20-2003, 02:16 AM
I'm sorry to hear that they are going to take away the great open space north of Caughlin field. It was one of the great tailgating spots in the NCC.

SDSU has a leg up in the Mid Con, that's for sure. For some reason NDSU has never been able to raise their basketball to the level of the Jacks except for the women, and now that has changed as well.

this is no time for NDSU or any other DII hopefulls to feel smug about things. The challenges are there for all of us. they may not be exactly the same but they do add up to a very full platter for everyone. I hope SDSU is with us all the way. I am really not sure we can do it without you guys and vise versa.

SDSUFAN
06-20-2003, 07:00 AM
JBB:
Thanks for your comments and yes I think both Land Grants got their hands full. Although I disagree with Kent, I do have to say Kent has posted a number of intersting points. His maps are truely a work of art.

As far as the acreage north of the stadium, therer still is a tailgating area which has been promoted during the early fall games and can be used through out the season by any one. The athletic department has all the property north to the *road that I believe is exit 133 off I-29 and bridges west to US 14. *There is a number of acres that up to now have been idle. So the baseball facility will not cut into the tailgating as I understand. Also their are plans to put outdoor track and soccorer *in this area. *The Old State Field shut down in1961 when Coughlin open had been the outdoor track, but its now in such bad shape its good only for walking by old fat guys like me. The Wellness Center will be on the east side of the football field, and will include an indoor practice facility in football. *These are some of the things coming, but none before Sept 1.

89rabbit
07-20-2003, 08:08 PM
I think that we still may see UND leaving D2 and if another regional school does the same you would have the beginnings of a new D1AA conference that could have all sports. * Perhaps Davis would reconsider thier affiliation if that were to happen. *If we were not in the Big Sky I would love to see NDSU, SDSU, UND, UNC, Southern Utah and Davis form the base of a new conference. *I would rather stay independent and work towards a scenario such as this, or look to the Big Sky than to head to the Mid-Con.

The problem with your suggestion is you might lose SDSU in the process. Unlike NDSU, SDSU must find a conference to make the jump. SDSU has promised the good people of South Dakota that we will not move up as an independent. Besides that, it looks to me that being an independent is a tough row to hoe. I think the Mid-Con is a fine choice for the short term.