PDA

View Full Version : DEMISE OF THE NCC



JACKGUY
08-02-2003, 05:39 PM
I recently traded e-mails with Mke Marcil the commisoner of the NCC regarding status of the conference. I conveyed to him in the strongest terms that I thought the conference missed an opportunity in that the entire conference should have moved up to D1 when NDSU and SDSU tried to rally this movement. I think the biggest challenge holding the majority of the members back was D1 Hockey. I think allowing schools to field a D1 hockey program without moving up in other sports has been a huge blow to the NCC. At SCSU,Mn State,Neb Omaha,UND and soon to be Mn Duluth hockey
has become the primary priority at the expense of other sports in terms of revenue and fan support. You can go to the schools mentioned above on a night when their is a hockey game and you have a full house while others sports that are taking place on the same day or at the same time go unnoticed. I have followed the Jacks
Basketball team around to a number of away games where we almost outnumber and certainly are more vocal than the home team as their seems to be a lot of apathy and almost a club sport mentality for every sport but hockey. I also have seem this apathy to a lesser extent for football. Let there be no mistake I'm not a huge hockey fan and certainly never will be but I would be very interested in hearing other people's opinion about the difference between the hockey schools and the non hockey schools. I think the conference will get its wish as it is going to become a conference of D1 hockey and DII in everything else. I think the problem and what I heard from the UND adminstrators is that they feel with there DI Hockey programs they are already a DI school.

SDSUFAN
08-02-2003, 06:57 PM
Jack Guy:
I think you have pretty much said it all. It really a shame that some have bitten into the forbidden fruit of the Hockey Apple, but it an expensive sport. I believe the reason that its popular in Grand Forks is that it been a competitive sport since the late 1940's. These other schools that started it later such as SCSU, UNO and MSU-Mankato have a such a hill to climb in order to cash flow in the black. When you are committed heavily to one sport, then its gets nearly impossible to put resources in the other sports. To me that explains, UNO, SCSU and Mankato's position. It tough.

BisonMav
08-02-2003, 09:11 PM
I have heard that UNO was interested in the Division I move, but the Board of Reagents, or whoever they needed approval from in Nebraska would not support it. The Cornhuskers and their Alumni own Nebraska. SDSUfan, I am sure you know, being in the Big Red state.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
08-02-2003, 09:46 PM
I could envision a time in the near future where the NCC Is a D1 hockey conference and all other sports are relegated to second tier status, The question for me is USD, I know there has been some discussions (on this board) if hockey could possibly emerge there. I see the main problem is does anyone in SD care a wit about hockey? realistically ? Sioux Falls has a minor leauge team. I dont really know how they do attendence wise.. I moved away before they started. For whatever reason SD never was much of a hockey state compared to MN and ND. A hockey conference would also eliminate Augie (not that they are qualified be in the NCC or D2 for that matter). I'm sure USD could find another D2 home and Augie could go the way of Morningside.

SDSUFAN
08-03-2003, 02:03 AM
Texas Jack Fan:

I really don't expect there to be a day where hockey will be added to the NCC sports offered. The reason being UND belongs to the prestigious WHAA conference that includes Minnesota and Wisconsin. *That conference is the most prestigious of the hockey leagues. The other NCC schools belong to a lesser prestigious conference. *So its been everyone for themselves in finding a hockey conference.

One thing I think that puts UND about the other NCC schools in Hockey is the giant gift from Ralph Engelstad in the form of an Ice area at the cost of 105 million.

As far as the Sioux Fall minor club, I believe called the Stampede, they seem to be doing very well. *Between the Stampede, the Sky Force basketball and Arena Football, its getting hard to find open dates at the Sioux Falls Arena. *Augustana no longer plays basketball there *and when they did against SDSU, it was like a home game for SDSU, but not now at Almen Center on campus.
So for USD to think hockey in Sioux Falls is pure none-sense, and I wonder if Kelly Higgins, USD AD, comments to the Fargo Forum where he implied that someday USD would have hockey in Sioux Falls did not cost him his job.
Abbott, the President is a very level headed guy and may have resented him shooting his mouth off to the press. *The resignation last month was in my intrepatation a face saver for Higgins and USD.

I do think that if the NCAA removes the rule that allows D2 and D3 schools to have one sport at D1, then these NCC hockey schools will have a big decision in front of them. One that they are currently avoiding by staying D2.

As far as UNO, that is a strange deal and could be a sleeping giant. *With the huge business community, they should have been D1 decades ago. Its just that they dont support UNO, and maybe UNO does not go after them very hard either. *The community *really got behind UNO in adding hockey and Omaha is about to open a new convention center which will include UNO hockey, but not the the other sports. Despite not having much power on the current Board Of Regents, UNO, that could change if the business people in Omaha wanted to move UNO sports up a new level.

On a UNL sports show, former AD Bill Byrnes said that UNL will not add hockey so apparently they dont want to mess with the Omaha community. Another twist is if UNL Huskers have several 7-7 seasons in football, I believe that statewide following will start to crumble, which becomes a real opportunity for UNO. Not likely to happen though, but possible.

Bison_Kent
08-03-2003, 02:43 AM
I agree that there will never be a NCC hockey league. NDSU has not ruled out getting hockey in the future. I have to be honest that I was one that supported the DI hockey when Fargo put the vote on the new arena that would be prodominatedly for hockey for both the Fargo high school teams and the Bison. Just in talking (via e-mail) with Gene Taylor hockey will be a future endevor for NDSU after getting through the entire DI process. I think many NDSU fans would love to see another Bison-Sioux rivalry happen especially if NDSU is by far better then the Sioux at football.

I think that the DII and DIII teams being allowed to move up in hockey isn't right. But there are several I-AA football playing schools that also have hockey. Most of these are in the Northeast such as New Hampshire, Maine, Northeastern, and several Ivy League teams such as Harvard and Cornell.

It will probably be 10 years in the future before DI hockey comes to NDSU but I for one would support it.

Charger
08-03-2003, 06:58 AM
I really don't expect there to be a day where hockey will be added to the NCC sports offered. The reason being UND belongs to the prestigious WHAA conference that includes Minnesota and Wisconsin. *That conference is the most prestigious of the hockey leagues. The other NCC schools belong to a lesser prestigious conference. *So its been everyone for themselves in finding a hockey conference.

Actually Minnesota State, St. Cloud and UM Duluth are all in the WCHA with UND. UNO is the only NCC school not in the WCHA, but they are in the CCHA which includes Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State and Notre Dame, so it's has some big names as well. There are too many rivalries in the WCHA for any of those teams to leave and join an NCC hockey conference, namely University of Minnesota. As far as UNO becomming DI in everything, I don't see that happening any time soon. They have found their nitch with hockey, but Creighton has the basketball market and UNL has football covered.

SDSUFAN
08-03-2003, 04:47 PM
Charger:
Thanks for setting me straight on the hockey conferences. I knew it was different conferences but whom it affected I did not know, and dont have that much interest in the sport to know where to check prior to posting.
You being a hockey would know, and thanks again.

I think Omaha-Lincoln areas will be interesting recruiting areas for SDSU in the near future. We will be a step ahead of UNO, USD and NWMSU. All three have been big winners as D2 schools in recruiting. D1 over D2 is a big thing in the minds of Nebraska kids. If they cant get the attention from the Big Red, then they will consider any D1 school over a D2. They really dont care about the Double AA's that follow.

purplemavfan
08-03-2003, 07:16 PM
Jack 89's comments are quite accurate in regard to the NCC hockey schools. In MSU's case, when moving to division I hockey was discussed in the early to mid 90's, nothing was said about the gender equity situation, i.e.; adding a women's team as well. Hockey has been a huge expense for the school, especially with the mandated additon of a women's program, and then trying to compete with established programs such as UND, UMD, and the U of M. Being much more of a football/basketball follower than hockey, I would have preferred keeping hockey as it was and moving up with the conference to division I. As noted, division I hockey at MSU, and probably St. Cloud as well, has drawn off support from basketball and football. To its' credit, MSU has done fairly well in the WCHA to date considering it is a recent addition, but competing well over the long term with the established powers of hockey will be a great challenge for the school. Hopefully attendance can be maintained even if some subpar seasons occur in the future. Division I hockey has given the school much greater recognition to be sure, but lack of resources for other major sports has been a major factor in the long drought of championships for football and basketball.

purplemavfan
08-03-2003, 07:21 PM
Correction on my previous post......I was responding to Jackguy's comments, not Jacks 89.

JACKGUY
08-03-2003, 10:52 PM
PurpleMavFan
You have an excellant basketball facilty. Glen Taylor built a mini Target Center. Living in the Twin Cities I make all the Jacks games in both Mankato and St. Cloud and will miss those game when we go D1. You have an excellant coach in Marganthaler who we hated to see leave SDSU and you now have former Jacks star Austin Hanson as an assistant who was a thorn in the sides of the Mavericks and most other NCC teams. It also seems you have a good new football coach in his second year. It's my understanding MSU has not utlized its full compliment of football scholarships in years which again may be due to the emphasis on Hockey. It's too bad. I feel both Mankato and St. Cloud have more of a D1 look in terms of enrollment and facilities than many in D1 and certainly you don't look anything like the new dII schools that are moving up. I always felt St. Cloud and Mankato have such a recruiting advantage with your proxmity to the Cities and only one DI school in the state. We will miss you!

JBB
08-04-2003, 12:55 AM
Hockey did indeed bring down the NCC as it was known in it's hayday. I think it will now become a very typical D2 conference, probably supporting any downsizing issues that come around. This will of course make it easier to promote and support the hockey. This is why NDSU left.

I also think it is likely that the Big 10 could start a hockey league and leave the WCHA, far more likely anyway than the NCC starting a league. After the Big 10 makes the move the NCC just might do it too.

Some of the DI hockey schools that are in fact true DI athletic insitutions are begining to compalin about the D2 and D3 wannabes like the NCC schools. It is their contention that all of the lower deivision schools have an advantage because they dont have to raise as much money. I think this is looming as a big issue.

wsuwarrior
08-04-2003, 04:44 AM
I also think it is likely that the Big 10 could start a hockey league and leave the WCHA, far more likely anyway than the NCC starting a league. *After the Big 10 makes the move the NCC just might do it too.

I figure it will take the Big Televen to add 2 more hockey playing schools.

They already have Ohio State, M*ch*g*n State, and M*ch*g*n from the CCHA, as well as Minnesota and Wisconsin from the WCHA. I figure the two added team would more than likely be Notre Dame (but only if they join in all sports...not likely) and Penn State (whom I've heard might consider moving up (all though I don't know how likely that is).

89rabbit
08-16-2003, 06:25 AM
Brave face, huh? ;)

http://www.msnbc.com/local/KDLT/M318648.asp

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

89rabbit
08-16-2003, 06:34 AM
Even more NCC info from the Sioux Fall Argus Leader:

http://www.argusleader.com/news/Saturdayarticle2.shtml

Go Jacks!
Go Bison!

tony
08-16-2003, 09:40 PM
I think this illustrates the difference between the NCC with NDSU, SDSU, and UNC and without them.

North Central Conference Before:
------------------------------------------
All Sports: 43 National Championships.
Football: 51 playoff appearances (58 wins), 11 national champions, 4 runner-ups

North Central Conference After:
------------------------------------------
All Sports: 10 National championships.
Football: 24 playoff appearances (16 wins), 1 national champion, 1 runner-up

Maybe NDSU and SDSU can tack on a couple more championships and playoff appearances before they leave.

JBB
08-17-2003, 04:56 AM
Thats eye opening. I assume you included the hockey statistics?

tony
08-18-2003, 12:44 AM
No, I didn't include hockey stuff because I got the information about national championships from an NCC media guide. Hockey teams play in other conferences.

Normally I wouldn't post something like that in a non-smack board; however, I considered it interesting enough to merit posting.

tony
08-18-2003, 12:59 AM
Here's an article describing the North Central Conference from a UN-O student newspaper. It's not perfect but guys like the NCC commissioner who aren't familiar with the NCC should probably read it (yeah, that's smack):

Introduction to the NCC (http://www.unogateway.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/08/13/3f3a58ce9315b)

Note: the reason that they have the NCC having 39 championships - they don't count Northern Colorado's or Northern Iowa's. They also severly underrate SDSU and don't even mention their men's basketball team.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
08-18-2003, 04:10 AM
I wonder if the author of that article has ever been to a NCC sporting event. St. Cloud isnt exactly a "doormat" these days.I agree that the quote "USD has seen better days" has some credibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasnt SDSU won the "NCC AllSports Championship" 5 years in a row? and didnt NDSU win it something like 4-5 years in a row before that?
I'm also not sure where he got the stats for the respective universities-I think they may be a few years old.

89rabbit
08-18-2003, 04:45 AM
I liked the part about USD not being able to escape the shadow of SDSU. . .but you and Tony are right he didn't do us justice.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

Travel Partners in D I, Yea baby! ;D

JBB
08-21-2003, 10:19 PM
I agree Tony, those statistics are very telling. Its worth mentioning every time the move by the State U's is criticized.

BisonMav
08-29-2003, 12:32 PM
Bemidji State 12, Minn.-Mankato 10

The Beavers may be the next team to join the NCC.

They have Division I hockey, and are Division II in other sports. Perfect fit.

JBB
08-29-2003, 02:22 PM
You can count on it, and you can also forget about any other NCC schools moving up with us. grand forks may in time make the move if NDSU does well.

I wonder what McFeely thinks about the move now? He has been critical making the point that the NDSU opponents in DI will be unknowns compared to the great D2 competition we could have had.

I would invite him to look at the grand forks non conference schedule. I would also invite him to look at the regions D2 teams.

He should be placed on the D2 beat and let Kolpack do the Division 1 reporting. That is if he can stand the excitement.

Next week Mcfeely would be in grand forks for the great matchup with Crookston, Kolpack would be in Missoula for the NDSU/Montana game.

tony
08-29-2003, 04:52 PM
McFeely doesn't write much about NDSU so I don't think that switching his beat will bring you any joy. I don't think that he ever claimed that DII was the place to be - no matter where NDSU is, he'll still consider their fans boorish, their competition jokes or (better yet) unbeatable, *and the administration misguided. It wouldn't matter if they were DI or not. I take it as a sign that he cares when he complains.

The guy you're writing about sounds like more Ryan Bakken of the Grand Forks Herald and he isn't on the sports beat anymore.

As Bakken might write, "NDSU's move to DI makes no sense. NDSU's move is all about jealousy over the REA. Yep. That's all it is. Even back in the 70's and 80's, when NDSU first started talking about going DI, it was jealousy over the yet-to-be-dreamed-of REA. DII is thriving. DI is crooked (except hockey). Have you seen airfares lately? Why should NDSU go to Montana when they could fly to Washington state and take a bus ride to get to Central Washington? DI doesn't offer anything better than DII does. For example, who the heck knows what the mascot of the University of Montana is and does anybody know what town it's in? Didn't think so. How about the Bemidji State Beavers? See what I mean? Everybody knows that the Bemidji State Beavers are from Bemidji and that their mascot is a beaver. I bet that you all know what towns the UM-Crookston, UM-Duluth, Minn State - Moorhead, Winona State, Wayne State, and Concordia St. Paul are in too. Surely you all know that their mascots are all beavers as well. Let's face it, NDSU's DI world is with Montana, the Beavers from Missoula."

The actual Bakken article (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforksherald/3349439.htm)

The funniest part about that is that at the time he wrote it South Dakota State was trying to get the rest of the NCC to move up to DI but he didn't seem to know about it!

JBB
08-29-2003, 04:59 PM
Baken is a misguided minion of the grand forks school. McFeely is a Baken want-to-be. I've exchanged a few emails with the jerk but have never written Mcfeely. He's a minor pain compared to the idiot from the north.

89rabbit
08-29-2003, 05:05 PM
Wow, reading that article made me feel better about my friends at the Argus Liar, I mean Leader. ;)

Go SDSU
Go NDSU

Bisonguy
08-29-2003, 05:10 PM
Not to defend McFeely, but the whole negative thing is his schtick. He's trying to become the next Jim Rome. ::)On occasion, very rare occasions, he brings up some good points.

JBB
09-01-2003, 08:14 PM
His Sunday column was good. So was the column before the game. Your right, he's not all bad.

89rabbit
09-18-2003, 06:05 AM
Looks like the NCC is a day late and a dollar short. :'(


http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Thursdayarticle2.shtml

I AA all the way! ;D

bisononce
09-18-2003, 06:35 AM
Hey, readers, look at the comments by Tony of Aug 29. That's funny stuff! Tony, my man, you can flat out WRITE! :o
Bison 40, Brookings 10

wfduck
09-19-2003, 11:56 AM
What ever happened to the talk of University of Mary in Bismarck joing the NCC. They would be a solid school? Think NCC wishes they had Morningside back?

wsuwarrior
09-21-2003, 08:44 AM
http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Sundayarticle1.shtml

Interesing article in the Argus Leader on the future of the NCC.

JBB
09-21-2003, 04:30 PM
good article. One of the only reasons I didnt want to see NDSU move was the addition of UMD. The Duluth trip would have been fun. In fact, Im going to miss a lot of the trips around the league. But, its clear that hockey rules the roost in the NCC. One of the big reason offered for not moving the league up was the travel costs, now it seems all schools are going to be willing to travel a lot more. I think we will be seeing some of the NCC schools on the football schedule for at least a couple more years. They will probably stay on the BB schedule for ever.

Sid Hartman and Gopher Head Coach Glen Mason were talking about the NDSU move to DI on the radio the other day. They thought it was great and the BISON would be regulars on the BB schedule but football was a few years away if ever.

Tatanka
09-21-2003, 05:45 PM
Excellent article. Tells the story pretty plainly that the NCC is hurting massively with out NDSU, SDSU, and UNC. Big step backwards, indeed.

wfduck
09-21-2003, 05:49 PM
Why would football be such a stretch? If the Gophs can play Ohio U, LA Lafayette, Monroe etc.,? Help me out...what am I missing? I'd bet a home/home series with NDSU would put more fans in the Metrodome than the Gophs vs the school of the blind.

mojobison
09-21-2003, 06:44 PM
Those are all D1a teams.

Hartman might think it's a stretch but NDSU's football team will play the Gophers. Hope the game is outside in a new Gophers-only stadium.

89rabbit
09-21-2003, 09:31 PM
As a SDSU fan it is good to see the Argus Leader finally getting on with it. The same re-writen article on why SDSU should not move was getting VERY old every few weeks.

SDSU & NDSU DI/I AA all the way! ;D

JBB
09-21-2003, 10:53 PM
Those are all D1a teams.

Hartman might think it's a stretch but NDSU's football team will play the Gophers. Hope the game is outside in a new Gophers-only stadium.


I think they will play the gophers too, but they were talking about the game not counting for the Gophers because we would be D1AA. Im not sure if they are right. They also didnt rule it out, but thought the BB competition would start first.

BisonInTexas
09-22-2003, 01:00 AM
I think they will play the gophers too, but they were talking about the game not counting for the Gophers because we would be D1AA. *Im not sure if they are right. *They also didnt rule it out, but thought the BB competition would start first.

In DI-A, to be bowl eligible, a team needs 6 wins against DI-A opponents, so a game against NDSU in football would not do the Gophers any good. Perhaps they might play the Bison anyway, but they are right when they say that the game wouldn't count toward their bowl eligibility.

Craig

BisonMav
09-30-2003, 12:53 PM
I see next years new NCC member MN-Duluth got creamed by Northern State 46-7. They may end up a middle of the pack NSIC team, the last year in the conference.

wfduck
09-30-2003, 12:58 PM
NCC would've been better off keeping Morningside around. And adding University of Mary.

wsuwarrior
09-30-2003, 05:16 PM
I thought that Morningside had left on their own, rather than being kicked out. UM-Duluth will be a good addition to the NCC. Probably the 1st or 2nd best choice in the geographic region for the conference to pick up.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
09-30-2003, 05:50 PM
I think Morningside did leave on their own. The dropped to NAIA D2. I'm pretty sure thats correct, if not, I'm sure that someone will correct this post.

BisonInTexas
09-30-2003, 06:37 PM
I thought that Morningside went DIII (no scholarships), but you are correct when you state that they are NAIA. They are in the Great Plains Athletic Conference (http://www.gpacsports.com/)

Craig

89rabbit
09-30-2003, 08:30 PM
And they are still no good a football.

Go SDSU!

JBB
09-30-2003, 11:18 PM
UMD will be a joke at everything but hockey. Why do you think they are in? The NCC sucks and has since 1974 when it should have gone DI. Thank the hockey schools and good ridance. Arena Football has better TV ratings than hockey.

Hammerhead
10-03-2003, 11:47 PM
The NCC hasn't sucked since 1974. There were almost always a few teams that could provide a good football game during our national championship years. We even had 2 NCC schools playing for the title in 1986.

I don't think the NCC will be nearly as good without NDSU, SDSU, and UNC.

wfduck
10-04-2003, 11:31 AM
To the say NCC sucked is to say the porn star will be the next Gov of California.

The NCC continues to be one of the top D2 conferences. UND won it all a couple years back, UNC had a string of championships......what else do you need?

The NSIC--yeah they sucked

BisonMav
10-04-2003, 02:59 PM
Quote By: Tony
North Central Conference Before:
------------------------------------------
All Sports: 43 National championships.
Football: 51 playoff appearances (58 wins), 11 national champions, 4 runner-ups

North Central Conference After:
------------------------------------------
All Sports: 10 National championships.
Football: 24 playoff appearances (16 wins), 1 national champion, 1 runner-up

As you can see from Tony's post on the NCC with NDSU, SDSU and UNC and the NCC after they leave. It may not suck, but it will be a shadow of it's former self.

JBB
10-04-2003, 04:08 PM
I didnt mean that it wasnt any good, I meant it was not interested in moving up with und leading the charge. It was also busy most off seasons responding to roger thomas complaints about NDSU including limiting the number of allowed televised games, changing blocking rules and numerous complaint about NDSU team and coaching behavior. The conference hasnt been too NDSU friendly. thats what I meant. Sorry about not explaining myself better.

wfduck
10-06-2003, 01:25 AM
ahhhh

That's seems more like it. ;)