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Bison_Kent
11-13-2003, 03:35 PM
I just thougth I would point this out. I am a subscriber to The Sporting News and they have the conferences that NDSU and SDSU have talked about getting into ranked this way:

11. Missouri Valley
23. Big Sky
24. Mid-Continent

The Missouri Valley is ranked just below the WAC and Mountain West, who are considered Majors. The MVC is the top "mid-major" conference in the country. There is no chance they will pickup two former DII teams.

Here is a link to that preview:

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=1818158

Bisonfan1234
11-13-2003, 04:23 PM
So...to review...because the MVC is ranked as the top **mid-major** conference...there is no way they'll pick up the best D2 basketball program in the country and their travel partner (ndsu), who happen to be not half bad themselves. LOL..yeah thanks buddy...keep hoping we don't get into a good conference...that's the spirit!

filbert
11-13-2003, 04:47 PM
I'd say it's more a situation where NDSU and SDSU will need to earn some D-I stripes before the MVC would give us a serious look. From what I heard last spring from knowledgable SDSU sources, the MVC was at that time completely uninterested in either NDSU or SDSU.

We need to demonstrate at the DI level that we would improve the Missouri Valley's RPI. At that point I'd expect them to come knocking at our door(s). But until then, it's my opinion that we'd better be happy if can convince the Mid-Con to let us in in the next couple of years.

somebison
11-13-2003, 05:27 PM
We need to demonstrate at the DI level that we would improve the Missouri Valley's RPI. *At that point I'd expect them to come knocking at our door(s). *But until then, it's my opinion that we'd better be happy if can convince the Mid-Con to let us in in the next couple of years.

I agree, The Missouri Valley has gotten At-Large bids to the tournament in men's BB the last couple of years. I am sure they are worried that letting some former D2 schools in would hurt their chances for getting at large bids. If our teams have a good showing the next couple of years this may change (hopefully)

Bison_Kent
11-13-2003, 06:32 PM
Bison1234,

I would love for NDSU to get into the Missouri Valley but it is not realistic for a former DII team to go to a top conference like this (at least not right away).

This is why the Big Sky would be a great fit. There is one conference for everything (besides wrestling and baseball, I think). Football and basketball teams would be playing the same teams for both and rivalries can remain all year long.

But I will agree that the Mid Con is looking where we will go to begin our DI journey. I hope the conference gets decided soon.

Bisonfan1234
11-13-2003, 07:48 PM
I KNEW you had an agenda in your post and it was to promote the "big" Sky Conf.

Well, let it be known that i hope that we don't get into the BSC..screw them...they don't want us anyway.

If not the MVC, then the Horizon Conf has teams from the Gateway Football Conf in it. I don't think the mid-con has them, but that would also still work out well.

Lastly...if the BSC doesn't have baseball (i'm sure they do) then that is another reason not to consider them. Wrestling, unfortunately, is one of those sports that is like Hockey....not many teams...and thus not many conferences.

89rabbit
11-13-2003, 07:54 PM
The Gateway Football Conf. has teams in both the Horizon and Mid-Con.

Horizon: Youngstown State

Mid-Con: Western Ill.

The Mid-Con also has one of our proposed Great Western Conf. teams, Southern Utah.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

tony
11-13-2003, 08:18 PM
Not sure you can categorize Bison_Kent's opinion as an agenda. He thinks the Big Sky would be a good fit. Heck, so do I. I don't care if their BB isn't up to the MVC standards because if SDSU and NDSU are serious about putting excellent basketball teams on the floor, they'll raise the level of play to (hopefully) match that of the Missouri Valley.

The Big Sky is the ONLY conference that has been publicly supportive of NDSU's move to DI and they've been willing to schedule former NCC members more than any other DI conference.

JACKGUY
11-13-2003, 08:40 PM
Yes they have been supportive of the move to DI (Big Deal), but were not good enough to join the inflated view they have of the Big Sky. I believe this new conference for football has the potential in a very short period time to elevate above the Big Sky Conference. I'm beginning to think we may be better off trying to start our own conference for all sports and invite all comers including a second chance to those NCC schools that are having second thoughts ie. (UND). If we do go to the Mid-Cont I hope its for a short period of time as there is nothing about the makeup of that conference that excites me. As the shakeup of conferences continues to happen there may be other schools that become disenchanted with what is left of there own conferences. I believe Cal Davis has joined a conference for everything but football otherwise they would be a good candidate for this new conference. I think some of the other regional schools in years to come will look at us in a whole different light. This Southern Utah school with its facilities looks to be a good school to be associated with. With a whole new conference we can esstablish which sports the schools will field.

BisonBizzo
11-13-2003, 10:01 PM
I am with the BigSky as our best option at this moment in time. For where NDSU stands in this begining process of going D1, getting into the BigSky would be a huge victory. Of course, the BigSky are hesitant in expanding, first of all it is a big change for the conference, and secondly they are looking at d2 schools just getting their foot wet in the D1 ranks.

I can't see the MVC even sniffing our direction right now. They have been too prominent in basketball of lately to change anything.

As far as wrestling, it will be successful on its own. They are probably the closest Bison sport to form a conference right now. I am not sure all the schools involved right now. But I will take a guess at it (SDSU, UNC, Northern Iowa, Southern Utah, Colorado St., Wyoming, Air Force). The biggest challenge for Bucky and his team, is the exploratory years of not competing for national championships. I hope individual wrestlers can compete for the individual national championships or else the program will have a tough time right away.

I do agree with a comment I had read somewhere on this board a little while ago. This exploratory period (can't complete for national championships) is a punishment. It is worse than some schools on probation.

As far as baseball, if the BigSky doesn't offer it, than I don't know. They could probably make it as an independant. Majority of the top programs in D1 baseball are from the south. So I don't know where NDSU will go with baseball.

89rabbit
11-13-2003, 10:14 PM
I just want us in a conf. Big Sky, Mid-Con, Missouri Valley, Horizon it dosen't matter. We don't have to stay forever. My best guess is if it goes quickly it will be Big Sky or Mid-Con/Great Western. If it takes a year or two or three then it is anyones guess. It will depend on how we do and what happens to those conf.'s members.

It is all so volatile right now. Everything could change in the blink of an eye. I personally think this volatility is a good opportunity for SDSU and NDSU. I think it will be tougher for other schools to move up once everything slows down. Like I said at the top, Horizon, MVC, Big Sky, Mid-Con, it donsen't matter much to me. Wherever we go we will make that Conf. better.

Go Jackrabbits!
Go Bison!

Charger
11-13-2003, 10:20 PM
The only problem with starting our own conference for all sports is that we wouldn't receive an automatic bid for basketball. There is a chance we would get one in the future, but I think it would be a dificult path. I would much rather join an established conference. I like the Big Sky because it seems to resemble the NCC more than the other conferences suggested. We would also play the same schools for basketball and football, so we could possibly develop more rivalries. I also think SDSU could become a basketball power in this conference. The thing I don't like about the Big Sky is the distance most teams are from us and that it doesn't cover our recruiting area. Obviously the MVC would be my first pick overall, but that's not going to happen for a long time. Even the Horizon League is a long shot due to their recent success in basketball. I consider Brookings to be in the Midwest and I would like them to play in a Midwestern-based conference. Unfortuneately the only conference like this that would accept us is the Mid-Con. This conference doesn't exactly excite me. They have had some success in basketball (Valpo), but otherwise they are mediocre at best. Some of their teams would struggle in the NCC. I do think this conference would be a good stepping stone. I think both schools are really commited and in 5-10 years I believe this will pay off. This will result in more conferences looking our way, and then we might have a chance at my ultimate goal, the MVC. I think the Mid-Con is a better stepping stone than the Big Sky, although at this point I would be happy with any conference.

WYOBISONMAN
11-13-2003, 10:24 PM
Bison1234 needs to calm down a bit and realize that all Bison fans are supportive of the herd finding a conference. *It is just that some of us feel very strongly that the Big Sky is the best choice. *No need to run anyone down for that...

NDSU_grad
11-13-2003, 10:28 PM
First of all, Bison Kent is one of the best posters on this board and I seriously doubt he started this thread to promote his "agenda". *Also, I read on the Oral Roberts board at one time that the Mid-Con was ranked 27th. *I assume that was probably old and Kent's rankings are updated. *Where was the Horizon at in the Sporting News Kent?

roadwarrior
11-13-2003, 10:44 PM
I just checked the Big Sky web site. *They do not have baseball or softball as sponsored sports. Or wrestling that has previously been stated.*

The two most recent additions to the Big Sky were Portland State and Sacramento State, both which moved up from D-2. *Looks like this happened in 1996 or 1997.

I like the appeal of the Big Sky Conference because we would have the same opponents for football and basketball. *

One thing to think about is the number of NDSU alumni that live in the western states. *I have friends that live in Seattle that would drive to see games in Portland or Eastern Washington.

Bison_Kent
11-14-2003, 01:53 AM
NDSU_Grad,

Thanks for compliments. The Horizon League (as it is called) is ranked at #14 overall. This is probably a better chance then the Missouri Valley right away but they are another conference that gets more then one team in the Big Dance every 2 or 3 years.

Here are the teams in the conference:

Illinois-Chicago
Butler
Detroit
Loyola (Ill.)
Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Wisconsin-Green Bay
Youngstown State
Wright State
Cleveland State

The reason I like the Big Sky is the fact that the schools in that conference match NDSU and SDSU better then any other conference. Montana, Montana State Idaho State, Northern Arizona, and Eastern Washington are all state schools and are similar in size as NDSU and SDSU.

NDSU_grad
11-14-2003, 03:00 PM
I guess I would kind of lean toward the combination of Great Western/Horizon. The Horizon had two teams that got votes in the AP poll (Butler and Illinois-Chicago) and UW-Milwaukee and Butler made it to the big dance last year. The advantage of the Big Sky IMO would be name recognition. I'm sure most people have heard of Idaho State and the Montana schools, while most people in ND probably don't Wright St. and Detroit Mercy exist.

Bison_Kent
11-14-2003, 03:35 PM
The Horizon would be within driving range to games in Milwaukee and Green Bay and even Chicago. However, they seem to be mostly in large urban areas such as Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Cleveland, and Detroit. Wisconsin-Green Bay, Dayton, Ohio (Wright State), and Youngstown (Ohio) State seem to be the only cities that have anything in common with Fargo as far as size. But if we would get into this conference, it would make for an easy recruiting trip as NDSU is already going to Milwaukee, Chicago and even Cleveland for football recruits.

But I don't see any rivalries in this conference as I would in the Big Sky. I see the Montana & Montana State games as sellouts nearly every year in football as the Montana fans travel and that would lead into rivalaries in basketball and other sports as well.

Plus I would equate Fargo (and Brookings) better with Missoula, Spokane, Flagstaff, Ogden, Bozeman and Pocatello then Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland or Milwaukee. But that is just my opinion.

BisonBizzo
11-14-2003, 03:55 PM
But I don't see any rivalries in this conference as I would in the Big Sky. I see the Montana & Montana State games as sellouts nearly every year in football as the Montana fans travel and that would lead into rivalaries in basketball and other sports as well.

Plus I would equate Fargo (and Brookings) better with Missoula, Spokane, Flagstaff, Ogden, Bozeman and Pocatello then Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland or Milwaukee. But that is just my opinion.

No doubt! That is a valid opinion

Bisonfan1234
11-14-2003, 04:05 PM
...

Plus I would equate Fargo (and Brookings) better with Missoula, Spokane, Flagstaff, Ogden, Bozeman and Pocatello then Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland or Milwaukee. * But that is just my opinion. *

That is another big difference my opinion has from yours. Here in Fargo, where the population is high and the land is flat, i would much rather travel east toward more flat land and much more population. But perhaps out in western ND, where there is low population and more mountains, they would rather go west toward even mroe mountains and even less population. But since NDSU is in Fargo, i'm all in favor of going east. Not only that but our best recruiting zones are the twin cities, Wisc., and Chicago (and possibly now the whole Lake Mich area). That is why i support us going to the Gateway/Mid-con, Horizon, or MVC.

NDSU_grad
11-14-2003, 04:30 PM
BK,
Those are all excellent points and I can't really refute any of them. Even though I would prefere Great Western/Horizon I would be very happy with an invitation from the Big Sky.

89rabbit
11-14-2003, 04:33 PM
I see both sides of this coin. *From an institutional stand point the Big Sky does look more like SDSU & NDSU. *I also think that since Brookings and Fargo are, what we in SD call, East River towns that our natural ID is to think of ourselves as Midwest not Mountain. *The MVC does have some schools that look a lot like our schools. *Southwest Missouri State (they are pushing the State Leg. to change their name to Missouri State) Wichita State, Northern Iowa, Illinois St., Indiana St. and even Southern Ill. (I have a cousin who goes there, she said it is a lot like SDSU).

I like most of you think the MVC is a long shoot at best. *However down the road we could move up to them. *If the MVC is your goal then I think the Mid-Con is our best bet. *Many schools before us have used them as a stepping stone. *If you want to find a place that we can call home right away and a place we could stay then the Big Sky is the one to shoot for. *I lean towards the Mid-Con/MVC but would be happy in the Big Sky as well. *It is great fun to talk about both. *I am looking forward to seeing how this all pans out.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

Bisonfan1234
11-14-2003, 05:49 PM
One other thing...Big Sky doesn't have Baseball and Softball. If we get in there...what happens to those sports?

I checked most of the Big Sky teams and it turns out that none of them have baseball or softball!! Portland State does have softball but only because they were able to get into a softball only league that only has 5 members.

Are we really ready to cut baseball and softball completely off after we built them a giant baseball stadium and 4 softball fields? Probably not. So unless there is a way around that...that pretty much cuts off any chance of getting into the BSC.

Bison_Kent
11-14-2003, 06:07 PM
Baseball and softball won't be dropped. If the Big Sky is chosen, another conference might be found for those sports. The same thing that Bison1234 proposed can be said for wrestling. I don't think we will be dropping that sport either but none of the proposed conferences have that sport.

There is not one conference out there that has all our sports but I would rather have one conference for both the top two sports in football and basketball and take baseball and softball to another conference then have football and basketball split into two different conferences. Once again, this is my opinion. I won't disagree with Bison1234 as he has his points as well and those are very good.

But one thing that we can agree on is that we need a conference not too far into the future of NDSU's DI journey.

NDSU_grad
11-14-2003, 06:47 PM
I don't know if I would call Newman Outdoor Field a giant stadium, although it is very nice. I think it will be way easier to build an independent schedule for these two sports than it would be for basketball, so I'm not too worried about finding a home for them. As far as wrestling, there really isn't any such thing as wrestling conferences anyway, so I don't think that's a big deal. For example, only 5 schools in the Big XII have wrestling teams.

Bisonguy
11-14-2003, 06:54 PM
There were talks about a conference for wrestling long before the GWC was discussed. I think Bucky and the coach from UNC know each other fairly well ;), so they might be able to come up with something. I know Air Force and SDSU were also in the mix.

BisonMav
11-14-2003, 06:55 PM
This is from an old post, but looks like a good conference for wrestling.


Oien said the university was also looking into a proposed wrestling conference that would include North Dakota State, Northern Colorado, Air Force Academy, Fresno State and six schools in Ohio.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
11-14-2003, 06:56 PM
for sports such as baseball, softball, and wrestling alternate conferences/affiliations can be done. I had heard that SDSU and NDSU are in the process of forming a wrestling "conference" with UNC, Air Force, Fesno St. and 5-6 Ohio universities that are in the same situation were all in. I'm sure that baseball can follow the same format.

Bisonguy
11-14-2003, 07:05 PM
BisonMav,

Yup, that's the one I was thinking about. Bucky had an article in The Forum pretty soon after the DI announcement was made.

BisonBizzo
11-14-2003, 07:18 PM
I think Bucky and the coach from UNC know each other fairly well ;), so they might be able to come up with something. I know Air Force and SDSU were also in the mix.

It's Bucky's son

Which I think has a lot to do with Bucky sticking with NDSU through the transition and not retiring.

D
11-14-2003, 07:21 PM
Why so much discussion on which conference to use as a "stepping stone"? NDSU's main concern should be finding a conference, period. If it is done immediately, you'll be very fortunate, as it doesn't work that way too often. For what it's worth, I think the Big Sky is easily your best fit. In Big Sky cities, that university is the show in almost every case. Not so with the Horizon, where the schools are playing 4th, 5th, and 10th fiddle. This greatly effects attendence, interest, and even media coverage and exposure. As far as football goes, Big Sky schools share similar philosophies are recruiting areas. In basketball, the fact that Ray Giacoletti is at Eastern Washington is potentially a great asset of NDSU's. He could vouge for NDSU, and being the hot commodity and respected person he has become, his opinion matters greatly w/in the Big Sky. He could offer help on the business and administrative side of DI hoops on a more personal level. And success in the Big Sky from a basketball standpoint isn't terribly far fetched, could take as few as 2-3 yrs.

Bisonguy
11-14-2003, 07:33 PM
It's Bucky's son

Which I think has a lot to do with Bucky sticking with NDSU through the transition and not retiring.


I knew that, hence the ;), ;D

BisonBizzo
11-14-2003, 07:42 PM
Your right D, it sure helps having ties to NDSU or SDSU out there in the BigSky. Chapman has his ties with Montana State. If Eastern Wash. is one of those schools that is not sure to expand in the dakotas, then it will help with Giacoletti out there.

If the BigSky is really waiting on the nation-wide conference shuffle to halt and to see where Idaho is at the end of this shuffle journey, then I hope Idaho ends up in the WAC. That would help clear that road block out of the way for us. I think it is all speculation that Idaho would drop down to 1AA again anyhow. I've heard nothing from Idaho, except the NCAA rule, attendance, that seems to change after every year.

I feel too much money is rolling through that damn NCAA. Every year they make more damn rules and by-laws. All in the protection of some dollar value for some instution(s). It doesn't seem to be about the student athlete anymore.

BisonBizzo
11-14-2003, 07:48 PM
I knew that, hence the ;), ;D


Sorry, Bisonguy

I thought you did, I wasn't sure. I will work on my niaveness.

SoDak
11-15-2003, 08:53 AM
I can see where, from an NDSU perspective, the Big Sky would be a great fit, and a great conference to be in. NDSU is obviously a football school. As a Jacks Basketball fanatic, however, I'd much rather see the Mid-Con or, dream conference (at least in the realm of reality), the Missouri Valley. Both of those conferences have a higher respect value in basketball than the Big Sky. I could be wrong, but I can't remember a BS school ever coming into March Madness with anything other than a 16 seed, and immediate exit. But, the key is, a conference, ANY conference, would be great. It would help take some of the heat off Oien, so he could concentrate on improving the departments.

Bison_Kent
11-15-2003, 02:02 PM
SoDak,

You are wrong here. Weber State has been in the tournnament and made some noise. I think in 1999 they made it to the second round by upsetting North Carolina before losing close to Florida in the next round and were the 14 seed.

Montana has won a game in the tournament but it was in 1975.

Bisonfan1234
11-15-2003, 04:32 PM
SoDak,

You are wrong here. *Weber State has been in the tournnament and made some noise. *I think in 1999 they made it to the second round by upsetting North Carolina before losing close to Florida in the next round and were the 14 seed. *

Montana has won a game in the tournament but it was in 1975.



So, in other words, yes they do suck at bball.

NDSU_grad
11-15-2003, 04:55 PM
So, in other words, *yes they do suck at bball.


But so does the Mid-Con. And since the Big Sky has football I would prefere that over the Mid-Con.

BisonBizzo
11-15-2003, 05:14 PM
Weber St. and Northern Arizona has made more noise in basketball of lately than any school from the mid-con.

Bisonfan1234
11-15-2003, 08:17 PM
But the Gateway is better for football. Esp if both of us get in.

SoDak
11-16-2003, 03:13 AM
SoDak,

You are wrong here. Weber State has been in the tournnament and made some noise. I think in 1999 they made it to the second round by upsetting North Carolina before losing close to Florida in the next round and were the 14 seed.

Montana has won a game in the tournament but it was in 1975.



Kent,
The mid-con made the Sweet 16 in 1998 with Valpo. Also, they sent two teams to post-season play last season. They aren't great, granted, but I still believe they'd be better for basketball. And obviously, there's no comparison between the BS and the Missouri Valley in BB. Like I said, I fully understand why NDSU football fans want the Big Sky. It would be a dream come true for 1AA football fans. Let's hope one or the other comes about. I still believe, however, that we'll end up in a homemade football conference, but it will be one that can someday rival the Big Sky.

NDSU_grad
11-16-2003, 03:19 AM
According to Kent's rankings the Mid-Con and Big Sky are pretty much even for basketball. Since the Big Sky has football, I would prefer that over a Great Western/Mid-Con scenario. I think the Mid-Con has some potential, but they need to clean house. Get rid of Chicago St. and IUPUI for starters.

IowaBison
11-16-2003, 04:10 AM
I think we should be established members of a conference before we start calling out the weaker teams.

Bisonfan1234
11-16-2003, 06:07 AM
According to Kent's rankings the Mid-Con and Big Sky are pretty much even for basketball. *Since the Big Sky has football, I would prefer that over a Great Western/Mid-Con scenario. *I think the Mid-Con has some potential, but they need to clean house. *Get rid of Chicago St. and IUPUI for starters.

Forget about this Great Western stuff. I know it sounds cool and all...but it's too expensive travel wise. If we get in the Gateway we can bus to all the games in 8 or 9 hours for the longest trips.

Bisonguy
11-16-2003, 06:35 AM
Forget about this Great Western stuff. I know it sounds cool and all...but it's too expensive travel wise. If we get in the Gateway we can bus to all the games in 8 or 9 hours for the longest trips.

Youngstown is over 1,000 miles from Fargo. That would require the bus to average over 115 mph to make the trip in 9 hours.

Illinois State (Normal, Il) is 692 miles from Fargo
Indiana State(Terre Haute, IN) is 834 miles from Fargo
Northern Iowa(Cedar Falls, IA) is 450 miles from Fargo
* * * This could be a bus trip
Southern Illinois (Carbondale, IL) is 940 miles from Fargo
SW Missouri State (Sprinfield, MO) is 773 miles from Fargo
Western Illinois (Macomb, IL) is 667 miles from Fargo
Western Kentucky(Bowling Green)is 1054 miles from Fargo


There was a thread about this when the DI announcement was made. The Gateway is on average closer than the Big Sky, but there wouldn't be a lot of bus trips involved.

WYOBISONMAN
11-16-2003, 03:43 PM
The discussion about Western North Dakota having little identification or interest in the "Midwest" is very true. *I am sure that most of us advocating the BSC are from the west....I think Bison1234 must be a Minnesota boy.... ;). *We need to send him some cowboy boots.....

Bison_Kent
11-16-2003, 03:49 PM
WyoBisonman,

I actually am from SE ND (LaMoure) orginally and now that I am in Kansas, the Gateway would allow me to see more games but I still think the Big Sky is a better fit (for reasons mentioned before).

BisonMav
11-16-2003, 04:25 PM
I would be happy either way. I am looking forward to the Bison playing at Williams arena and possible the football Gophers.

Bisonfan1234
11-16-2003, 04:50 PM
Youngstown is over 1,000 miles from Fargo. That would require the bus to average over 115 mph to make the trip in 9 hours.

Illinois State (Normal, Il) is 692 miles from Fargo
Indiana State(Terre Haute, IN) is 834 miles from Fargo
Northern Iowa(Cedar Falls, IA) is 450 miles from Fargo
* * * This could be a bus trip
Southern Illinois (Carbondale, IL) is 940 miles from Fargo
SW Missouri State (Sprinfield, MO) is 773 miles from Fargo
Western Illinois (Macomb, IL) is 667 miles from Fargo
Western Kentucky(Bowling Green)is 1054 miles from Fargo


There was a thread about this when the DI announcement was made. The Gateway is on average closer than the Big Sky, but there wouldn't be a lot of bus trips involved.

Average distance from fargo to Gateway opponents:844 mi (some of your numbers were off). Dividing that by 70 gives you around 12 hours...a long time to spend in a bus....but it can be done. Granted some of them we'll have to fly to..but some we can bus to.

Average distance from fargo to BSC opponents:1290 mi. Dividing that by 70 (more than likely it would be less...remember this is all through mountainous areas...no flat land here!) about 18 hours. To me, that is too much time to spend in a bus. NDSU already flew to Missoula and that was the second shortest town in the BSC from Fargo. So would Bozeman be the only bus trip? Nonsense....that is far too much travel cost.

Now...couple that with no conference for baseball and softball...and i think we have a pretty good idea that the BSC isn't for us.

Stick with the flat land!!!

Bison_Kent
11-16-2003, 05:05 PM
Bison1234,

You forgot to mention what NDSU would need to do for basketball and track and golf and other "non-vevenue" sports. Keep in mind that the Gateway is just a Football only conference. I would assume you would like the Mid Con.

Bisonguy
11-16-2003, 05:16 PM
Bisonfan1234,

My numbers are from Mapquest. Please read this old thread-Is the Big Sky the right choice? (http://www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=d1;action=display;num=1045374642) I broke down the distances to all the schools in the Big Sky and Gateway.


Posted by: Bisonfan1234 Posted on: Nov. 16th at 12:07 am

Forget about this Great Western stuff. I know it sounds cool and all...but it's too expensive travel wise. If we get in the Gateway we can bus to all the games in 8 or 9 hours for the longest trips.

I think the Gateway is a better fit, but we would probably have to lose SDSU-the Gateway only wants to add one school, for a total of nine.

I'm just saying that there would be at least two plane trips involved in the Gateway, even SIU would be a 13 plus hour bus trip. The Big Sky would be primarily all frequent flyer miles. You stated that the longest bus trip would be nine hours, it isn't.

Bisonfan1234
11-16-2003, 06:07 PM
All mine are from Yahoo...and there were some big differences (15+ miles). I think yahoo is better because it trys to stay on the biggest road possible.

I never stated the longest would be 9 hours. I said the average trip would be 12 hours.

With the gateway we would have to fly to probably 3 opponents (Youngstown, SIU, and WKY)...but we would probably fly to all but one opponent in the BSC (MTSU).

If we were to get into either th Mid con or the Horizon...those are very comparable distances to the Gateway so i haven't bothered looking at those.

Bisonguy
11-16-2003, 06:24 PM
Forget about this Great Western stuff. I know it sounds cool and all...but it's too expensive travel wise. If we get in the Gateway we can bus to all the games in 8 or 9 hours for the longest trips.

You didn't say what? ;D


Mapquest stays on main roads, as well. 15 miles on a 700+ mile trip is neglible.

89rabbit
11-16-2003, 06:42 PM
Bisonfan1234,

My numbers are from Mapquest. Please read this old thread-Is the Big Sky the right choice? (http://www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=d1;action=display;num=1045374642) I broke down the distances to all the schools in the Big Sky and Gateway.


I think the Gateway is a better fit, but we would probably have to lose SDSU-the Gateway only wants to add one school, for a total of nine.

I'm just saying that there would be at least two plane trips involved in the Gateway, even SIU would be a 13 plus hour bus trip. The Big Sky would be primarily all frequent flyer miles. You stated that the longest bus trip would be nine hours, it isn't.

Bisonguy,

From everything I have read and hear the Gateway has no interest in expanding. *The only way we get into the Gateway is if we get in the MVC. *The MVC is very interested in protecting its RPI (I/E they want good basketball schools). *I think it would be foolhardy for NDSU to pin their D-I move on a football (I-AA) only conf. and forsake it travel partner. *Your chances of getting the rest of your program in a D-I conf. go way down if this were the plan.

I know we are only speculating, but come on lets get real. *We are going to move forward together, we are going to be a good addition to what ever conf. we end up in. *Remember, wherever we end up it does not have to be for life.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

P.S. IMHO all the Conf. scenarios that we are talking about mean flights. Nothing wrong with that. I think our ADs knew that going in so to me the point is moot.

Bisonfan1234
11-16-2003, 06:48 PM
Well obviously you can ignore that post since that was before i actually looked.

Nevertheless, it can be said that travel costs will be LESS if we are in the gateway.

I looked at the Horizon and all those schools are relatively in the same the area (Youngstown ST, again is probably the farthest). They have teams in:Green Bay, Milwaukee, 2 in Chicago, 2 in Detroit (wow..all of thosea re in our recruiting areas...i don't suppose a strong showing by us in these areas will help us in recruiting?!), youngstown, and indianapolis (Butler).

The mid-con...however, has some far away teams (Southern Utah for example).

The main point being: we get alot of our athletes from the east...i'm starting to think the Gateway/Horizon combo will work out best for us if we can get in.

Bisonfan1234
11-16-2003, 06:50 PM
...
P.S. IMHO all the Conf. scenarios that we are talking about mean flights. *Nothing wrong with that. *I think our ADs knew that going in so to me the point is moot.

The point is NOT moot if it means the difference between having ALL flights or 3/8 flights.

89rabbit
11-16-2003, 08:19 PM
It is becauses we, or you are not going to get in the Gateway, without getting in the MVC. *That is the longest shot for us. *The travel for the Big 10 would be pretty easy for us also. *However, I am not going to pull out the map quest and find out how far it is to Iowa City or Minneapolis.

IMHO SDSU & NDSU have 4 scenarios.

Big Sky
Mid-Con/Great Western
Horizon/Great Western
MVC/Gateway *

I would say they are in the order that is most likely to occur. *I would submit that you could flip one and two but I feel real strongly on the placement of 3 and 4. *Don't get me wrong the MVC/Gateway is my first choice, I just don't think we will get there coming out of the blocks. *Things change and a lot is going on with College sports so I still have some hope, but not a ton. *I am also with you that we should look east rather then west, but the Big Sky may be our best option and I would be ok if we end up there. (I personally think we will end up Mid-Con/Great Western). *

P.S. you might notice the subject of this thread, Re: D-I Basketball Conf. Rankings, easy on the Gateway stuff.

JBB
11-16-2003, 08:32 PM
I think NDSU has alread done the math. If we can afford the Great West, all flights except SDSU and possibly Greeley, I also think the money is there to follow any other secnario for all sports. Its not a question of money, thats what Decision 1 was all about. We have the money. Its a question of who are we going to play. Next year will probably be our most uninteresting year in Football for a long time (well 2002 was pretty uninteresting) We will be lucky to get 10 games and we will probably be lucky to have 3 at home. Same for basketball. We have so many open dates next year it almost seem impossible to fill. Just go to the AFCA coaches site and check it out. We have almost every date open. I wouldnt be afraid to schedule SDSU twice. Its not going to be any easier for them. Probably 4 times in BB.

89rabbit
11-16-2003, 09:09 PM
I think NDSU has alread done the math. *If we can afford the Great West, *all flights except SDSU and possibly Greeley, *I also think the money is there to follow any other secnario for all sports. *

That is all I am saying, good point JBB.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

BisonInTexas
11-17-2003, 03:51 AM
I think NDSU has alread done the math. *If we can afford the Great West, *all flights except SDSU and possibly Greeley, *I also think the money is there to follow any other secnario for all sports. *Its not a question of money, thats what Decision 1 was all about. *We have the money. *Its a question of who are we going to play. *Next year will probably be our most uninteresting year in Football for a long time (well 2002 was pretty uninteresting) *We will be lucky to get 10 games and we will probably be lucky to have 3 at home. *Same for basketball. *We have so many open dates next year it almost seem impossible to fill. *Just go to the AFCA coaches site and check it out. *We have almost every date open. *I wouldnt be afraid to schedule SDSU twice. *Its not going to be any easier for them. *Probably 4 times in BB.

I can venture to say that Greeley will definitely be a flight. NDSU flew there everytime when they were in the NCC. But like you said, the money issues will be taken care of and has been planned for. People should read the Carr Report, it is all laid out there and has been understood before we even announced.

Craig

Bisonfan1234
11-17-2003, 04:16 AM
If it was as simple as "the big sky is the best thing that NDSU can hope for"..then i would hope we got in there.

But i know that is a load of crap. The Gateway/Horizon or Gateway/MVC is probably better for the Bison and the Jacks.

But, since 89 is obviously a representative from the gateway, i suppose i shouldn't hope for the gateway. ::) ::) ::) ::)

89rabbit
11-17-2003, 04:55 AM
All I am saying is the Gateway is a long shot. The Gateway's commissioner is on record as being against the Dakota schools.

Quote:The expansion of the Gateway with either of the Dakota schools is most unlikely.

This is not new it has been posted on the Bisonville Board by others before.

As I stated before being in the MVC/Gateway is my first choice. Being that SDSU is a basketball power why wouldn't I want this?! Things could change (there has been talk about Western Kentucky moving up to I-A to help fill out the Sunbelt, their conf. for all other sports). Maybe Creighton gets an offer and they leave who knows. As of right now (today) it dosen't look good.

My point is that SDSU & NDSU are prepaired for the travel costs of any of the conf. that we join. Chances are we are flying to most of the games and that is ok. It will not make or brake our athletics budgets because it has been planned for. That is what I ment when I said the point was moot.

I am still hoping for the best when it comes to our University's options. I know you are too. We are on the same page as far as that goes. If I offended you, let me apologize. That was not my intent. I have said it before and I will say it again:

Go SDSU! Go NDSU! D-I/I-AA all the way! ;D

NDSU_grad
11-17-2003, 02:36 PM
I think this talk about bussing to places like Macomb and Carbondale Ill. is pretty silly. The only possible bus trip in the Gateway is UNI, and even then the team will probably fly. 89rabbit hit on the head with his "most likely scenarios post". It's probably Mid-Con/GWC for the Bison and Jacks. While the Mid-Con doesn't exactly thrill me, just having our two schools in there makes it a lot better ;)

WYOBISONMAN
11-17-2003, 04:09 PM
It would take one hell of a bus to make any other trip than UNI. (Probably a bus with wings) Also, once you are flying the difference between where you travel to play is just a matter of an hour or two. That is why travel is really unimportant in this whole discussion.

89rabbit
11-17-2003, 04:18 PM
Thank you NDSU_grad, and WYOBISONMAN.

Bisonfan1234
11-17-2003, 05:08 PM
Ok, well if travel is not an issue then you can't use that against either the Gateway or the BSC.

One thing that the Gateway for sure has an advantage over is recruiting area. Tons more people to the east means many more athletes to recruit. We are trying to get a foothold in the Chicago/Detroit/Cleveland area...so going the Gateway would definately give us great exposure.

89rabbit
11-17-2003, 05:39 PM
Agreed, and so would the Mid-Con, or Horizon.

NDSU_grad
11-17-2003, 06:17 PM
Ok, well if travel is not an issue then you can't use that against either the Gateway or the BSC.

One thing that the Gateway for sure has an advantage over is recruiting area. Tons more people to the east means many more athletes to recruit. We are trying to get a foothold in the Chicago/Detroit/Cleveland area...so going the Gateway would definately give us great exposure.

I can't argue with that. And don't get me wrong, I would love if the Bison got invited to the Gateway. I just don't think it will happen.