Division I Move at the Right Time

[Bison_Kent]

With all the conference shuffles, I think the move to DI might be at the exactly right time for NDSU and SDSU.

The DI-A football conferences are taking new teams and robbing from existing conferences. There is news today that the Big East is extending invitations to South Florida, Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul, and Marquette; with the first four being all sports members and the latter two being everything but football.

The WAC and Mountain West are also looking to expand further they are right now.

With all the shuffling, I think, it will cause a ripple affect on I-AA conferences and should allow NDSU and SDSU to find that conference we all now we need.

But it might take a year or two to feel the effects of this, in my opinion. We need to be patient and wait for this to happen. It will eventually.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I suspect with all the moving going on that NDSU may very well find itself in the BSC. There is no way that the BSC will pick up Idaho or Utah State as many of them wish. The BSC will have to add NDSU and SDSU eventually to beef up the conference. Schools like Sac State and Portland are draging the BSC down.

[89rabbit]

I suspect with all the moving going on that NDSU may very well find itself in the BSC. *There is no way that the BSC will pick up Idaho or Utah State as many of them wish. *The BSC will have to add NDSU and SDSU eventually to beef up the conference. *Schools like Sac State and Portland are draging the BSC down.

You may very well be right. During my trips to eGriz I too sensed, and was told outright, that they wanted to pick up Idaho and Utah State when they got pushed back down. I would say that if they join the WAC, as many have predicted, they will have no problem meeting the NCAA D-I requirments. This will certainly force the BSC to re-think its approach to expansion. Good news for SDSU and NDSU!

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

[Bisonfan1234]

I kinda like the idea of going to the Gateway and whatever partner conference it has for bball.

[89rabbit]

I kinda like the idea of going to the Gateway and whatever partner conference it has for bball.

Me too, that is my first choice. *Most members of the Gateway are in the Missouri Valley Conf. Before all the shuffling began it was considered a long shot for SDSU and NDSU to get in. Things may be changing though.

http://mvc-sports.com/

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

[NDSU_grad]

I would prefer the Gateway if it meant being in the Horizon or Missouri Valley for basketball. But I would rather take the BSC instead of a Gateway/Mid-Con scenario.

[Bisonfan1234]

I just don't like the overall disrespect the BSC is giving us as 2 "ok fine...we'll take them i guess..." teams. If they don't want us them screw them...i think the Gateway/Missouri Valley is a better choice.

[JBB]

I look at it like that too. But, respect is earned. An invitation would be nice. They do have bigger fish to fry. If it gets down to us we have to do whats best.

[WYOBISONMAN]

The type of schools in the BSC, the fact that the Montana schools are members and the prestige of the BSC are all reasons why it is the best choice for the Bison. Remember that the schools of the Gateway are all "second tier" schools in thier respective states. The BSC has many schools that are "flagship" institutions in thier states. I just don't see the Gateway as a good fit. I think the GWC is a better fit than that.

[NDSU_grad]

The only reason I like the Gateway is if we could get in a better basketball conference than the Big Sky, which is not exactly highly regarded in basketball. As for flagship schools, I think only Montana and MSU are considered flagship schools. I guess that doesn't really matter to me so much.

[Bisonfan1234]

I don't raelly care whether we play flagships...i just plain think that the Gateway/MVC play better ball.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Idaho State is also a flag ship school. I think the "company you keep" is important. The conference we are a part of will play a major role in defining the national image of NDSU. For me the BSC does a much better job of that than does the Gateway.

[Bisonfan1234]

Gateway keeps better company because they have better opponents.

Idaho State isn't a flagship either. I'd say Boise State is.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Actually Boise State is a second tier school. Idaho State is the land grant institution in Idaho. The two major institutions in Idaho (not just from an athletic perspective) are Idaho and Idaho State.

[BisonBizzo]

Both conferences have flagships or 'the' state universities... Montana, Montata St., Idaho, St, Indiana St., Illinois St....

I just don't think we have a chance in hell of getting into the Missouri Valley Conference right now... I do like the combo of the Gateway/Missouri Valley... I like the BigSky also... It is just that the Missouri Valley Conf. has rose in the last few years to be just under the major D1 conferences... I can't see them looking at D2 schools moving up for their basketball Conference right now... Last year the conference had 2 teams in the NCAA tournament....

[Charger]

I think the only way we would have a chance at getting into the MVC is if some of their schools leave during the conference reshuffling. I don't think any of their schools are in a position to do that, and if their top schools left it wouldn't be that great of a conference. At this point I would be happy with any conference.

[Bisonguy]

Conference USA just lost five members, mostly basketball powers. The MoValley might lose a member or two to CUSA. There's a lot of speculating one can do if they're into speculating. ;)

[Bisonfan1234]

Look @ Boise State's schedule and then look @ Idaho State's. Not even close, BSU's scout team would whoop up on Idaho State.

Idaho State may be a land grant school (i thought any school that has "state" on it is such a school anyway), but they are no where near the level of BSU.

[BisonInTexas]

Idaho State may be a land grant school (i thought any school that has "state" on it is such a school anyway), but they are no where near the level of BSU.

Not every school that has "state" in its name is a land grant school - in fact, many land-grant institutions are "University of" colleges, such as Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. *NDSU is in pretty select company:

Map of Land-Grant Institutions (http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/land/lgif/m2784l.gif)

Craig

[WYOBISONMAN]

FYI Bisonfan1234 Clemson University in South Carolina is the land grant for SC, not SC State. *I guess we will differ on who we support for a conference affiliation. *How many Gateway schools are on the map provided by BisoninTexas......I don't think any are. I stand by my original statement that overall the BSC has much more respected standing nationally than does the Gateway.

[BisonBizzo]

BisonInTexas,

I always had the assumption it was the state university, except for states that had a state university system like Minnesota and Wisconsin. Thank you for the clarification and the link. Is there a benefit from the NCAA for a land grant institution being D1? Do these schools get extra $ incentives?

[Bisonfan1234]

According to your map Cornell is a land-grant...yet it is a private school. Care to explain.

Also way to provide the map....which tells me that Idaho State is NOT a land-grant.

Also...we were never arguing whether or not the conferences had land-grants but rather flagships. Boise State is the obvious flagship when it comes to athlets (and more than likely it is the top research school in idaho as well).

As far as football goes... BSC has some good teams no doubt...but so does the gateway...Northern Iowa, West IL, West KY, etc.

As far as i'm concerned...the BSC doesn't deserve us and SDSU...let them see the mistake they made by not jumping on the chance to take us.

[NDSU_grad]

The University of Idaho is the land-grand institution for the state of Idaho. *Cornell is a very unique (and strange) situation. *If you are enrolled in the College of Agriculture at Cornell you basically pay public tuition. *Any of the other colleges and you pay private tuition. *Not every university with a "State" at the end of it's name is a land grant institution. *Examples include Indiana St., Illinois St., and Florida St.
I can't say for certain, but I highly doubt Boise St. is the top research insitituon in the state of Idaho. I think it is more of a commuter type school, but maybe someone can confirm this.

[BisonInTexas]

According to your map Cornell is a land-grant...yet it is a private school. Care to explain.

Also way to provide the map....which tells me that Idaho State is NOT a land-grant.

Also...we were never arguing whether or not the conferences had land-grants but rather flagships. Boise State is the obvious flagship when it comes to athlets (and more than likely it is the top research school in idaho as well).

As far as football goes... BSC has some good teams no doubt...but so does the gateway...Northern Iowa, West IL, West KY, etc.

As far as i'm concerned...the BSC doesn't deserve us and SDSU...let them see the mistake they made by not jumping on the chance to take us.

I just provided the link to the map, so it is not "my" map. As far as Cornell goes, here is a quote I found on the history of Cornell while Googling this morning:

Cornell is a land-grant university--but what does that mean? There's the historical explanation: the Morrill Act of 1862 provided support to at least one university in each state "to teach such branches of learning as are related to agriculture and the mechanic arts . . . [and] to promote the liberal and practical education of the industrial classes in the several pursuits and professions of life." That year, New York received a federal land grant of one million scrip acres. Ezra Cornell offered $500,000 to endow a new institution if it received the proceeds from the land's sale, so when Cornell University opened in 1867 it was both a private university and the land-grant institution of New York State.

I realize that the argument was about "flagships", but when you stated that land grant college is any school that has "state" in its name, I felt that was a slight to NDSU and had to correct you.

While there is no concrete definition as to what makes a college a "flagship", there can be no argument that every land-grant university is a flagship of its state. I would agree with others that the Big Sky is a better fit as a conference than the Gateway/MVC because NDSU has more in common with the Big Sky members. Also, I wouldn't discount the Big Sky just because they said "not right now" last February. At least they met with NDSU and SDSU to discuss the possibility. That is more interest than can be said of the Gateway/MVC and it is a sign that the BSC is still thinking about it.

Craig

[Bisonfan1234]

Ok, fair enough.

[tony]

NDSU might have an easier time getting to the NCAA's in the Big Sky than the MVC. All I know is that out in western ND people don't care about most of the NCC schools, any of the NSIC schools, or the Gateway/MVC schools. They do care about Montana schools though - and they are going to like the idea of Fargo turning an eye westward for once.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Being a native of Williston I can say I whole heartedly agree, Tony.

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

For what it's worth... I think both NDSU and SDSU are perceived as "western" State U's, which would form a good geographic fit with the BSC. I would also say the people of the Dakotas identify more with the western states rather than the more eastern ones, but regardless, if its the Big Sky, Gateway, or MVC we'll fit in well and be happy to be in.

[Bisonfan1234]

Is the USA only east and west now a days? Here in Fargo i identify with Wisconsin and Minnesota.

[Bisonguy]

With only one I-AA conference comprised of members that are all west of the Mississippi, ND will be a western state, as strange as that seems.

[JBB]

What would the future prospects be for a new conference that had football only, basketball only, and all sports members be? UNC, SDSU and NDSU would be the first all sports members. The Great West would also have a bunch of football only members including UCD, Cal Poly, St. Marys and Southern Utah. Would there be anybody else that might like to join? You have some independents in Flordia, Morris Brown, Louisiana State and Savannah State all playing as independents.

[ndsubison]

I would prefer for us to get into the Big Sky but the whole Western Conference sounds like it would be fun as well. Imagine if we could get this proposed conf off the ground. It would silence the naysayers and put NDSU on the map as far as having a "can do" attitude. Wouldn't that really piss off und? I really like the Western conf idea.

[IowaBison]

I wonder if UND isn't going to make the transition to DI on our coat tails in the next five to ten years.

It took some cahones for NDSU to make the decision and its going to take a lot more work to establish the Bison as Division I contenders in many sports. If we do well, and I believe that we will, it would be much easier for the sue to make the move. i.e. the dakotas will no longer be the D2 hinderlands and could likely slip into the same conference as us.

[BisonInTexas]

I wonder if UND isn't going to make the transition to DI on our coat tails in the next five to ten years.

It took some cahones for NDSU to make the decision and its going to take a lot more work to establish the Bison as Division I contenders in many sports. If we do well, and I believe that we will, it would be much easier for the sue to make the move. i.e. the dakotas will no longer be the D2 hinderlands and could likely slip into the same conference as us.

I wonder if Chapman will write editorials across ND stating why UND shouldn't make the move as Kupchella did?
;)

Seriously, if UND makes the move, it will be precipitated by a change at the top. Kupchella has painted UND into a corner with his "DI is bad" rhetoric. It will be interesting to see the rationalizing by the UND faithful when they decide to move up (and they will).

Craig

[Tatanka]

Indeed it will be interesting to see how much crow can be eaten by the university faithful. :D

[89rabbit]

Here is a story from the Argus Leader that speaks to this topic.

http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Sundayarticle4.shtml

Big East shake-up affects SDSU

Chris Solari
Argus Leader

published: 11/23/2003

As does the cascade of conference raids taking place across the nation

Forget the usual suspects for a second. Some of the key players in South Dakota State University's search for a Division I conference have been Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College.

Don't roll your eyes yet.

Truth is, when those three schools agreed earlier this year to leave the Big East for the Atlantic Coast Conference, they set in motion a domino effect that is causing major reverberations among even the smallest Division I conferences.

And that includes the leagues which have been mentioned as possible homes for the SDSU Jackrabbits - the Mid-Continent Conference, the Horizon League and the Big Sky - as they move their athletic programs to Division I.

"The conferences we've been talking to obviously are in a little bit of a wait-and-see mode," SDSU Athletic Director Fred Oien said. "It's simply to see what happens to their own membership, but also what might be left and how that might all be organized."

Consider the chain of events: After Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College bolted from the Big East, that conference moved quickly to find replacements, plundering Conference USA for Cincinnati, Louisville, Marquette and DePaul.

"Conference USA saw this as an opportunity to reconfigure itself as a pure (Division) I-A southern-based football-playing conference, and they were able to do that," Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said at a press conference. "So when we saw that we might be able to fill our needs, and they, at the same time, would do the same thing - we would not have to reach out to other conferences and be disruptive. To me, it was the best choice that we could possibly make."

Of course, it also was disruptive. Conference USA acted by swiping Rice, Southern Methodist and Tulsa from the Western Athletic Conference. The WAC is now looking at a few Sun Belt Conference schools. And so on, and so on ....

"This conference realignment thing continues to seem to bounce around," St. Louis University Athletic Director Doug Woolard told The Associated Press after moving his basketball-playing school from Conference USA to the Atlantic 10 earlier this week.

Many of those schools play Division I-A football, while SDSU will move into the second-highest classification of I-AA.

Attendance requirements at the I-A level also will affect some conferences after next football season.

Those regulations require football teams in that division to play five home games against other I-A opponents, and mandates that attendance at those games top 15,000 people. Previous rules were based on ticket sales. The attendance requirement could propel a bevy of teams entering I-AA to form new leagues or make other conferences decide to reorganize.

One conference which could be drastically affected is the Mid-American Conference, considered one of the best mid-major football leagues in I-A.

According to NCAA figures from this season, 10 schools nationwide have average attendance totals below 15,000. Half of those universities are in the MAC, which is also a prime target for a raid because of its basketball prowess. That could cause a major split in the 14-team conference, which will already lose Marshall and Central Florida to Conference USA.

SDSU has also discussed forming a I-AA football league with six other schools. A formal meeting to discuss that league is set for Dec. 8-9 in Las Vegas.

"It is an exciting time in intercollegiate athletics," Oien said. "Some people don't like it. But on the other hand, this realignment creates all kinds of new opportunities for everybody."

Go SDSU, Go NDSU!