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BisonMav
11-26-2003, 12:54 PM
Massachusetts (10-2) at Colgate (12-0), UMass
Southern Illinois (10-1) at Delaware (11-1), Delaware
North Carolina A&T (10-2) at Wofford (10-1), Wofford
Florida Atlantic (9-2) at Bethune-Cookman (9-2), FAU
Western Illinois (8-3) at Montana (9-3), Montana
Jacksonville State (8-3) at Western Kentucky (8-3), WKU
Montana State (7-5) at Northern Iowa (9-2), UNI
Northern Arizona (8-3) at McNeese State (10-1), MSU

What's everyone else think?

WYOBISONMAN
11-26-2003, 01:06 PM
Massachusetts (10-2) at Colgate (12-0), Colgate
Southern Illinois (10-1) at Delaware (11-1), S. Illinois
North Carolina A&T (10-2) at Wofford (10-1), Wofford
Florida Atlantic (9-2) at Bethune-Cookman (9-2), FAU
Western Illinois (8-3) at Montana (9-3), Montana
Jacksonville State (8-3) at Western Kentucky (8-3), WKU
Montana State (7-5) at Northern Iowa (9-2), Montana State
Northern Arizona (8-3) at McNeese State (10-1), MSU

I had to pick a couple upsets! I am trying to get the game coordinates for the Montana and Montana State games. When I do I will post them.

tony
11-26-2003, 02:32 PM
Massachusetts (10-2) at Colgate (12-0), Mass
Southern Illinois (10-1) at Delaware (11-1), Delaware
North Carolina A&T (10-2) at Wofford (10-1), Wofford
Florida Atlantic (9-2) at Bethune-Cookman (9-2), FAU
Western Illinois (8-3) at Montana (9-3), Western Ill.
Jacksonville State (8-3) at Western Kentucky (8-3), WKU
Montana State (7-5) at Northern Iowa (9-2), UNI
Northern Arizona (8-3) at McNeese State (10-1), MSU

I pick them how I see them, not how I want them (hope I'm wrong on some of these).

NDSU_grad
11-26-2003, 02:47 PM
Wasn't Southern Illinois the number one team in I-AA. Why do they have to travel?

Bison_Kent
11-26-2003, 03:31 PM
From what I have heard, there is a minimum bid that a host needs to send. If that bid can't be met then the team will be on the road. I have heard that S. Illinois could not meet the minimum bid.

Bisonfan1234
11-26-2003, 03:46 PM
Is NDSU capable of meeting a minimum bid? I would think so.

In any case, i think S IL has a very good shot of winning the whole thing this year.

IowaBison
11-26-2003, 03:53 PM
NDSU has the money for the bid. Why do you think we had so many home playoff games in the 60's-80's.

Home field was not determined by ranking, it was by bid.

tony
11-26-2003, 04:39 PM
That's what people always said (that NDSU bought home playoff games) but it turns out that NDSU always got sent on the road to play higher-ranked teams (and sometimes lower-ranked teams). There was only one exception, Edinboro. They were ranked one spot higher than NDSU and had to come to Fargo to play. I don't think the bid had any bearing on that decision.

In fact, NDSU has had more road games than they should have based on their performance.

Jav_Fan
11-26-2003, 05:12 PM
The higher ranked team is given the first opportunity at hosting playoff games. They must guarantee a certain $$$ amount. If they cannot, then the lower ranked team gets the opportunity. I don't know what happens if neither team meets guarantee.

This works for regional basketball also. A couple of years back, we hosted a regional tournament by meeting the NCAA minimum when the higher ranked could not.

NDSU_grad
11-26-2003, 06:14 PM
That makes sense. I think Delaware was like 4 or 5 in attendance in I-AA this year. Does anybody have any idea what SIU's attendance figures were like?

somebison
11-26-2003, 06:24 PM
That makes sense. *I think Delaware was like 4 or 5 in attendance in I-AA this year. *Does anybody have any idea what SIU's attendance figures were like?

I looked at it a couple of days ago... they averaged 9750

Former_Hitman
11-26-2003, 07:11 PM
Someone please explain why NDSU was on the road in 1999/2000?

I believe the game should have been in Fargo.

WYOBISONMAN
11-26-2003, 07:34 PM
It was all caused by the politics of jealousy. We were screwed because of our past success. The result was we got to play a D2 semi-final game on kitty litter at Delta State (what a joke).

D1AA will be much better. It will be fun to see D1AA NDSU out draw the D2 Sioux at a home playoff game.... ;D

somebison
11-26-2003, 07:40 PM
It was all caused by the politics of jealousy. *We were screwed because of our past success. *The result was we got to play a D2 semi-final game on kitty litter at Delta State (what a joke). *

D1AA will be much better. *It will be fun to see D1AA NDSU out draw the D2 Sioux at a home playoff game.... ;D

Given their attendance last week... that shouldn't be too difficult ;D ;D ;D ;D

JBB
11-26-2003, 10:07 PM
The meaningless CSP game in Fargo attracted more attention than the playoff game in grand forks. No wonder there is no TV this week. If nobodys in the stands nobodys watching on TV either.

somebison
11-26-2003, 10:27 PM
The meaningless CSP game in Fargo attracted more attention than the playoff game in grand forks. *No wonder there is no TV this week. *If nobodys in the stands nobodys watching on TV either. *

As far as TV well heres the story (i know people ;)) RT was not happy with the attendance last week vs PSU. Therefore he talked to Pat Sweeney after the game telling WDAZ not to bid on the TV rights because RT doesn't want sat's game on TV. KVLY was not informed and placed a bid on the game. RT then told KVLY that he didn't want the game on TV . The NCAA (who has final decision on whether or not the game will be televised) got wind of the situation and told KVLY they could show the game if they wanted to. KVLY not wanting to ruffle feathers with RT agreed not to show the game. However, if the sioux win again and host next week (hope not) there is a good chance the semi will be on KVLY. I imagine Pat Sweeney is crying 24hrs a day just thinking about the possibility.

somebison
11-26-2003, 10:28 PM
as for actual predictions

Massachusetts (10-2) at Colgate (12-0), Mass
Southern Illinois (10-1) at Delaware (11-1), Delaware
North Carolina A&T (10-2) at Wofford (10-1), Wofford
Florida Atlantic (9-2) at Bethune-Cookman (9-2), FAU
Western Illinois (8-3) at Montana (9-3), Mon
Jacksonville State (8-3) at Western Kentucky (8-3), JSU
Montana State (7-5) at Northern Iowa (9-2), UNI
Northern Arizona (8-3) at McNeese State (10-1), MSU

tony
11-30-2003, 03:48 PM
Bison fans aren't too bad at picking the DI-AA games - nobody was under .500.

BisonMav 5-3
WyoBisonMan 4-4
Me 6-2
SomeBison 4-4

The Big Sky went 1-2
The Gateway went 3-1

BisonMav
11-30-2003, 03:53 PM
You Da Man Tony.

Looks like Northern Arizona got everyone.

Maybe WKU will defend this year, although Delaware looks great too.

WYOBISONMAN
11-30-2003, 04:21 PM
I was too much of a homer for the Big Sky, and it hurt me on my picks! *I will try to be more rational in round 2.

uncbear
11-30-2003, 05:03 PM
I know I am only stating the obvious but I can't wait for NDSU and UNC to be part of the mix.

This probationary period is killing me!

IowaBison
11-30-2003, 10:16 PM
It must especially hurt for the bears, because you were clearly deserving of a spot. At least you didn't get hosed by the d2 selection committee which I think is even more painful (not writing of these year in particular sux fans).

D
11-30-2003, 10:28 PM
It must especially hurt for the bears, because you were clearly deserving of a spot. *At least you didn't get hosed by the d2 selection committee which I think is even more painful (not writing of these year in particular sux fans).

What was UNC deserving of a spot in? *They went 3-2 against 1AA teams. *They went undefeated for the rest of their schedule, which was filled with D2's. *If, in your opinion, that is warranting of a spot in the 1AA playoffs maybe it is not all that it is cracked up to be. *

IowaBison
11-30-2003, 11:35 PM
The Bears played real DIAA teams, no bottom feeders, not one.

Lost to then #16 Idaho State.
Beat #20 Montana State.
Lost by 2 to Florida Atlantic whose still in.
Beat Southern Utah and UC Davis.

Were in the power index and rated in the top twenty.

They're a quality program, who if in a conference would have gotten in.

Montana lost to NDSU, a D2, Montana State and Idaho State and got a home game!

D
11-30-2003, 11:44 PM
The Bears played real DIAA teams, no bottom feeders, not one.

Lost to then #16 Idaho State.
Beat *#20 Montana State.
Lost by 2 to Florida Atlantic whose still in.
Beat Southern Utah and UC Davis.

Were in the power index and rated in the top twenty.

They're a quality program, who if in a conference would have gotten in.

Montana lost to NDSU, a D2, Montana State and Idaho State and got a home game!

Bottom line, being 1AA, playing 5 like classification opponents, and winning three of them doesn't constitute a playoff team. There is no way they were deserving. I'd be interested to see how they compute the power ratings, because I don't see how it's possible they were ranked somewhat highly. I can see how they were ranked in polls, voters see their record and don't research, just like every other poll. In D2, you'd suffer power wise if you played 6 NAIA or D3 schools. Something I've wondered for a few weeks.

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 12:12 AM
I don't think there much difference between a mediocre DIAA team and most d2 teams.

IMO, UNC was a DIAA playoff caliber team. They will definitely be a DIAA powerhouse, hopefully NDSU can follow suit.

WYOBISONMAN
12-01-2003, 02:01 AM
I would agree with IowaBison. UNC had a tremendous first year. I would be very happy if NDSU can mirror such results next year.

D
12-01-2003, 04:35 AM
I would agree with IowaBison. *UNC had a tremendous first year. *I would be very happy if NDSU can mirror such results next year.

They had a 1st year that any transitional team would be elated to have. But deserving of the playoffs, no way.

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 04:42 AM
The team is clearly playoff caliber as were the bison. Too bad we have cahones and like a challenge and are willing to take our salt instead of being big fish in little ponds.

I will never in my life let a sueiouadf fan tell me about competive football scheduling.

D
12-01-2003, 04:54 AM
Many, many teams are playoff caliber, but, once again, like Kolpack said the other day, you can have the toughest schedule in the world, but you have to win the big games.

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 04:58 AM
Like Crookston, gotcha.

D
12-01-2003, 05:02 AM
Like Crookston, gotcha.

No. Like when you lose to your arch-rival when you are favored and when you lose to St. Cloud St. The pre-conference season is great, schedule Miami, USC, and Oklahoma, great. But when you run the table in conference and win the league by 2 games, you are going to get in every time.

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 05:08 AM
I don't know who was the better of NDSU or UND. But what UND has done this year is truly amazing. I wish I could have seen just one of the many games they played this year.

But you guys are settling for Crookston. You are settling for D2. You could be more and won't, I think that's disappointing considering how good you are.

WYOBISONMAN
12-01-2003, 05:10 AM
I don't think anyone on this board would say the Sioux are not a great D2 football team. *A team that ought to be looking at D1AA. It seems that you are being held back by some unknown force.....I would suspect it is the politics of hockey money.

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 05:17 AM
I think arguments like that ring too much of a conspiracy theory for me to believe.

RT may believe that it's in UNDs best interest to stay d2. I think that many in North Dakota don't realize that UND and NDSU have been DI caliber for sometime in many sports and that the move is not that big of one. But is a lot more fun without a conference and the recent restrictions on playoffs.

D
12-01-2003, 08:45 PM
I think arguments like that ring too much of a conspiracy theory for me to believe.

RT may believe that it's in UNDs best interest to stay d2. *I think that many in North Dakota don't realize that UND and NDSU have been DI caliber for sometime in many sports and that the move is not that big of one. *But is a lot more fun without a conference and the recent restrictions on playoffs.

You're exactly right. I think they are taking on a wait and see policy. RT, having been here forever, knows the alumni, city, and employees better than Taylor knows his (simply based on tenure). I'd guess that he is using you guys & SDSU as "guinea pigs". It is a bold move for NDSU to make, one that should be fine, and an even bolder move for SDSU, one that I have sincere doubts about.

JACKGUY
12-01-2003, 09:00 PM
D

Have all the doubts about SDSU that you want. I think we will flourish in D1AA. We have a basketball program that I believe already functions like a mid-major program. We certainly have work to do on the football front, but am confident we will become competitive at this level sooner than people think. The money is there and the support is broader than the papers are making it out to be.

D
12-01-2003, 09:17 PM
D

Have all the doubts about SDSU that you want. I think we will flourish in D1AA. We have a basketball program that I believe already functions like a mid-major program. We certainly have work to do on the football front, but am confident we will become competitive at this level sooner than people think. The money is there and the support is broader than the papers are making it out to be.

That's just it though. Fargo has a metro area of what, 200,000 or more. Brokkings, maybe 35,000. You have average football facilities that are home to a team that has never cut it at the D2 level. Fewest playoff appearances in all of the NCC, 1. Football drives athletics at the D1 level for all state institutions. 5-6 and 6-5, year in and year out, won't do it. Hoops, no worries. But small town with no football is the recipe for disaster. Footbal has never been good, and show no signs of turning it around. This isn't meant to be offensive, and I am not casting ill-will SDSU's way, but something doesn't add up. I really hope I am wrong though.

somebison
12-01-2003, 09:28 PM
That's just it though. *Fargo has a metro area of what, 200,000 or more. *Brokkings, maybe 35,000. *You have *average football facilities that are home to a team that has never cut it at the D2 level. *Fewest playoff appearances in all of the NCC, 1. *Football drives athletics at the D1 level for all state institutions. *5-6 and 6-5, year in and year out, won't do it. *Hoops, no worries. *But small town with no football is the recipe for disaster. *Footbal has never been good, and show no signs of turning it around. *This isn't meant to be offensive, and I am not casting ill-will SDSU's way, but something doesn't add up. *I really hope I am wrong though.


Despite the fact that SDSU is a perennial 6-5 or 7-4, or in some cases 8-3 team they do pretty well in attendance coming in 16th, 14th, 24th, 19th in d2 fb the last 4 years. I think the key for them will be getting Sioux Falls to adopt SDSU as their "home team" SF has a population base very similar to fargo and it would be great for SDSU to have SF fans make the hour trip on saturdays, (i am sure it already happens but the numbers can probably be increased)

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 09:38 PM
I'm actually kind of pissed off at the University for not coming with us.

NDSU and SDSU, both of which I think will have success as DI, are going to do a hell of a lot of work and pay dearly financially and on the win-loss board before establishing themselves. In 8-10 years UND will look attractive to NDSU/SDSU's conference and have the ability to step in without a scratch.

Wussies.

JACKGUY
12-01-2003, 10:03 PM
If we have to depend on Brookings as the sole provider of fan and corporate support than yes this new venture will fail. Fortunately this has never been the case as SDSU has always had statewide and regional support. The largest alumni base in Sioux Falls (50miles away) is a larger metro area than Fargo/Moorhead. We have always said that Sioux Falls will have to play a big part in this move. There is much talk about playing some football games in Sioux Falls at Howard Wood and there is plans in Sioux Falls for a new 12,000 seat arena that I wouldn't be suprised the Jacks will play some games in. No question are football program in terms of wins and losses has been mediocore at best. There are big plans to renovate Coughlin and I agree with you that in D1 Football is king! Even thought we haven't been at the top of the heat in Football we have always drawn decently and I think attendence will get better as we start to see some of the better D1AA teams come to Brookings. The Jacks have a huge following that follows the team wherever they go and I see that continuing. I don't understand your point about how the size of community dictates attendence and succes at the D1AA level.

IowaBison
12-01-2003, 10:07 PM
D is trying to figure out why and compensate for the fact that UND isn't going DI. It's because your cowards, D.

Brookings/SDSU has more than enough resources to be competitive. As does Grand Forks/UND, its balls that their missing.

D
12-01-2003, 10:30 PM
If we have to depend on Brookings as the sole provider of fan and corporate support than yes this new venture will fail. Fortunately this has never been the case as SDSU has always had statewide and regional support. The largest alumni base in Sioux Falls (50miles away) *is a larger metro area than Fargo/Moorhead. We have always said that Sioux Falls will have to play a big part in this move. There is much talk about playing some football games in Sioux Falls at Howard Wood and there is plans in Sioux Falls for a new 12,000 seat arena that I wouldn't be suprised the Jacks will play some games in. No question are football program in terms of wins and losses has been mediocore at best. There are big plans to renovate Coughlin and I agree with you that in D1 Football is king! Even thought we haven't been at the top of the heat in Football we have always drawn decently and I think attendence will get better as we start to see some of the better D1AA teams come to Brookings. The Jacks have a huge following that follows the team wherever they go and I see that continuing. I don't understand your point about how the size of community dictates attendence and succes at the D1AA level. *

What I mean is that in a town of 20,000 with a metro of 35,000, there are a lot less football fans and more importantly die-hards than in a city Fargo's size with their metro pop. With a constantly mediocre team, rain or shine, the attendence is obviously not the same as it would be in a bigger area with the same won-loss record. And there aren't many D1 schools that come from cities of 18,000, and even fewer that are successful. Once again, I hope SDSU proves me wrong.

Charger
12-01-2003, 10:50 PM
Just look at Western Illinois as an example, they are almost identical in size of city and university to us (SDSU) and they seem to be doing just fine in football. *I'm not sure I agree that football is what drives everything at the I-AA level. *For some schools this is true, but at others basketball is king. I think basketball is, and will continue to be our highest revenue sport. *Also remember that SDSU athletics is hardly competing agaisnt anything for the entertainment dollar in Brookings.

BisonMav
12-01-2003, 11:54 PM
Many fans travel hundreds of miles to their favorite colleges games. The Division I label will attract fans. When I lived in Nebraska, I would go to Creighton and Lincoln to watch Division I basketball. I wasn't a fan of either school. It was good basketball.

D
12-02-2003, 01:27 AM
Many fans travel hundreds of miles to their favorite colleges games. *The Division I label will attract fans. *When I lived in Nebraska, I would go to Creighton and Lincoln to watch Division I basketball. *I wasn't a fan of either school. *It was good basketball. *

We're not talking anyone from the Missouri Valley or Big 12 here, we're talking about a probable D1 independent. *Not quite the same level. *You don't see the fans flocking to Texas Pan American, Texas A & M Corpus Cristy, and Savannah St. on the basketball front. *"We're good at basketball, though." *You don't need to convince me of that, it is the other people around the country.

IowaBison
12-02-2003, 01:33 AM
The argument is the same for Fargo as it is for Brookings.

There are a lot of entertainment dollars within a few hours of NDSU and people will definitely spend on quality athletics.

BisonMav
12-02-2003, 01:37 AM
The Indy status would be temporary, maybe 5 years.
I travel 480 miles round trip to see NDSU play. I have football season tickets, and maybe miss 1 game per year. I know a lot of other people that travel just as many or more miles to the games, including basketball. The Division I label will attract more people. A mature Division I NDSU or SDSU, 10 years out, will be "The Game" in their state.

IowaBison
12-02-2003, 01:40 AM
You are a true bison.

But I don't think it will take ten years. There are a lot of people in Fargo making a lot of money and they need something to do with it, now. The teammakers won't tolerate DIAA mediocrity for a year and they have the money to change things quickly.

We win big games or even lose close to big teams and the fans will come.

D
12-02-2003, 01:49 AM
Fargo has a met population of seven times larger than Brookings, so the money isn't the same. And if the Rabbit fans andadministration think they can turn it around now in football, why haven't they been able to yet in their existence?? I don't know about anyone else, but I have a hard time believing it and haven't heard why they think they've found the secret in football after 100 years of being lost.

IowaBison
12-02-2003, 01:52 AM
I don't think SDSU will be an average most seasons in football with a few years being more competitive, playoffs probably never, but a good opponent, definitely.

Their big sport is basketball and they already draw people in for it. Playing big names won't hurt.

I know I've said this before, but UND/NDSU/SDSU/UNO are already DI caliber teams.

JACKGUY
12-02-2003, 04:31 PM
D,

You can't seem to get it it through your head that Brookings population or lack of it is not going to dicatate
whether SDSU is succesful or not at the D1 level. SDSU is a state asset that tremendous state and regional support. How is it that we outdraw consistently all of DII for Basketball and a number of D1 programs. If you have ever driven between Sioux Falls and Brookings or from other directions into the town you will realize that SDSU athlethics has a lot more support than within the Brookings city limits. I consistently drive in from the Twin Cities as do a lot of other fans that happen to live out of the state. Our record in football is also not going to determine whether this is a succesfull venture. I'm not so sure if SDSU was in Sioux Falls the school would have the kind of following it has or not. There is a lot of competition for entertainment dollars in both Fargo and Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls continually has the highest attendence in many of the minor league sports that call it home and have the highest number of Vikings season ticket holder outside of the Twin Cities. The key is to convert those sports enthusiast who currently have no D1 program in the area to follow to jump on the Jacks bandwagon. The SDSU foundation has raised an enormous amount of money and the athletic programs will be well funded. I realize football is an important component of raising revenues and the positive is this is an area that SDSU has huge growth potential. The SDSU athletic program is miles ahead of any the other in-state programs and has more alumni living in the state than any other university in the state. A higher calibre of competition will enhance the excitement of football that already exists. You rarely see in D1 a program that excells in both football and basketball. Just take a look at Nebraska and Minnesota or Kansas and Duke.