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Bison_Kent
10-22-2003, 03:33 PM
With many schools starting to see the ripple effects of the ACC additions, I thought it might be good to talk how this effects NDSU. Let me breakdown what has happened so far:

ACC Additions (all from the Big East)
-Boston College
-Miami (FL)
-Virginia Tech

Big East Additions (all from Conf. USA)
-Louisville
-Cincinnati
-Marquette
-DePaul

Conf. USA Additions (all from the WAC)
-SMU
-Rice
-Tulsa
(they will add one more in the future due to Army leaving.)

These are the known changes. Now, the WAC needs to add at least 3 teams and it looks like the Western state Sun Belt teams are likely to be added in Utah State, Idaho, and New Mexico State.

How I think this effects NDSU is the fact that the Big Sky is waiting for all these things to happen and if these three schools from the current Sun Belt are added in the WAC, there is no way that the Big Sky will be able to add any of them. This leaves the door open for two teams to go into the Big Sky. Hopefully, that means NDSU and SDSU are the two additions.

But maybe that is just wishful thinking.

BisonMav
10-22-2003, 03:41 PM
That's a good point Kent. On the SUE board they were gloating about the Mid-Con taking some of those teams from the South, and leaving NDSU & SDSU out in the cold. This may in fact open the door to the Big Sky.

WYOBISONMAN
10-22-2003, 03:53 PM
I agree. Some of the folks at Montana have been wetting thier pants about the prospect of getting Idaho back in the BSC. I think this may assure that it won't happen. It could really open the BSC door for NDSU. Lets run the rest of the season and take the national title and show the BSC what quality is!

Bisonfan1234
10-22-2003, 04:11 PM
We don't have to do anything to show the BSC what quality is...we already beat their best team.

BisonBizzo
10-22-2003, 04:20 PM
The conference future is definitely a ?... Does any one know when the NCAA plans at taking a look at possibly dropping the D1 5 year waiting peroid to 2 for transitional teams in all sports except basketball (basketball 13 to 8)? They are planning on reviewing this, right? This would be huge for other conference's looking at NDSU and SDSU. The NCAA rules for transitional teams is such BS! NCAA pulls in way too much money and make up too many damn rules!

BisonInTexas
10-22-2003, 04:25 PM
One other factor is the Mountain West, which is said to be looking to add as many as 4 teams, but probably just one or two. *The teams they are looking at are all from the WAC - Boise State, Hawaii, Nevada and Fresno State. *It has been said that Boise State is the frontrunner of the group.

Where did you see that Idaho is being considered for the WAC? Down here in Texas, it is being reported that North Texas is being courted along with Utah State and New Mexico State. *I think Idaho's poor FB attendance is hurting them for joining the WAC, although I would like to see them get invited, because as you pointed out it would open up some eyes in the Big Sky.

I saw the speculation thread on the SiouxSports forum. *As near as I can tell it is nothing more than a rumor being spread around Mid-Con boards by a guy at New Orleans. *Of course, the poster on the Sioux board immediately pounced on this to pronounce NDSU's chances of joining the Mid-Con as being zero. *They sure are hoping that NDSU fails in moving up - I wonder why that is?? ::)

Craig

Bison_Kent
10-22-2003, 04:38 PM
Here is the story on ESPN. I agree that Idaho to the WAC is speculation but so is North Texas, N. Mexico State and Utah State.

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/1020/1642537.html

somebison
11-06-2003, 07:42 PM
More news of Conference Shakeups

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=1655559

filbert
11-10-2003, 03:04 AM
Hail, Bison fans...

Mega Realignment discussions on:

http://ncaasports.proboards10.com/index.cgi?action=login2

Go Rabbits!

Bisonguy
11-10-2003, 03:25 AM
Thanks filbert.

Some of us have been on there for a while, but don't post much. They also have a HUGE message board links page on their homepage at CollegeSportsInfo (http://www.collegesportsinfo.com), that contains links to most DI school fan sites and conference sites.

filbert
11-10-2003, 04:26 AM
Bisonguy...

How the heck do you get up to 872 posts?

Anyway, I pitched the NDSU/SDSU package detail to that site's "Potential 1AA to 1A or Div2 to D1 upgrades" thread. Feel free to pile on (I'm sure the Griz folks are tired of hearing from y'all Bison by now <GRIN>).

Bummer about St. Cloud...I was actually pulling for you guys.

Go Rabbits!

Bison_Kent
01-22-2004, 06:12 PM
Just a bit of I-A news in the West. The Mountain West Conference is expected to announce their expansion plans within the next 10 days. It is expected that they add TCU (from CUSA) but may also add Boise State (from the WAC). If Boise is taken, there is a likelihood of Idaho being added to the WAC and thus increasing the Big Sky possibilities for NDSU and SDSU.

Here is an article from an Idaho paper:

http://www.idahostatesman.com/Sports/story.asp?ID=59081

WYOBISONMAN
01-22-2004, 06:46 PM
I agree with your take on that, Kent. I also think that a WAC membership for Idaho will help them stabilize thier DI-A status. The will have much more regional competition and Idaho should see attendance rise. The more entrenched in DI-A that Idaho becomes, the better it is for NDSU getting a BSC invite.

Bisonfan1234
01-22-2004, 09:22 PM
Right now BSC has 8 teams, that is a good number for football. It's going to take a team leaving the BSC for someoen else to get an invite.

1) We don't know if anyone is even close to leaving. Sac is suposed to be leaving, but lets all face the facts that this is nothing more than hopeful thinking by us bison fans. They are making effort to improve their athletic department and they're in a huge market which gives the Big Sky lots of exposure.

2) We don't even know where we are as far as a list of who would get an invite. SUPPOSIDLY UNC is totally uninterested. I fully believe this is complete BS. It makes total sense for them and i believe this is nothing more than a rumor started somewhere and blown completely out of proportion. At the most someone said it as a ploy to make other teams think they don't want to go to the BSC. Also SUU makes perfect sense as a travel partner for Weber St.

As far as the BSC expanding, here is my thoughts: i don't see why they want to expand. UNLESS, it would be for Idaho. I believe Idaho is the only team they would expand for. This obviousy isn't going to happen and thus i doubt their "expansion plans".

WYOBISONMAN
01-22-2004, 10:15 PM
Obivously as a MN guy you need a little lesson on Western Geography.....Idaho State is the best travel partner for Weber. *Much better than SUU. ;)

NDSU_grad
01-22-2004, 10:18 PM
The Gateway also has 8 teams, so I guess your dream of NDSU going to the Gateway is also an impossibility. UNC not wanting to go to the BSC has come mainly from UNC fans, who actually might know something about their athletic program. If the BSC wanted SUU they would have taken them already when the conference was going through alot of changes in the mid-90's. SUU apparently doesn't fit academically with the other BSC schools. If Sac. St. does stay put, then the BSC probably isn't a possibility for the SU's. But, if there is upheaval in the conference, IMO the only option is the two land-grant universities to their immediate east (NDSU and SDSU in case you're not paying attention).

Bison_Kent
01-22-2004, 10:33 PM
S. Utah has its flaws in the Big Sky's eyes as it does not fund the full scholorship amount that the Big Sky requires plus the Big Sky requires 13 core sports as far as I know. I believe they would need to add men's and women's tennis and fully fund the football team to meet the Big Sky's minimums. Although their basketball arena would most likely be in the middle of the road in the Big Sky now, the football stadium would be last so improvements there most likely would be needed with its current capacity at just 8,500. Plus attendence in football is rather low in averaging just over 5,500 per game this past year.

N. Colorado does sponser all 13 core Big Sky sports, I believe so they would not require any additional scholorships and since football is the top sport there, I would believe that they would fully fund the football team with scholorships. However, the basketball facility in Greeley is probably below average (at least in Big Sky terms). An upgrade (or at least plans to upgrade) would most likely be needed before the Big Sky would look at UNC.

Of course, these are my opinions again but based on facts.

WYOBISONMAN
01-22-2004, 10:33 PM
I agree, however, if the BSC does decide to add two teams we will be in the running as well. I also do have to say I can't figure out why UNC is not interested in the BSC. That has always puzzled me.

Bisonfan1234
01-22-2004, 11:14 PM
And our basketball "arena" is good enough for the BSC?

As for the Gateway, they could easily do away with Illinois St and Indiana St and pick up NDSU and SDSU or just drop one and take us over SDSU.

WYOBISONMAN
01-22-2004, 11:17 PM
Bisonfan......you really need to stop smoking that stuff...

BisonInTexas
01-23-2004, 03:29 AM
Right now BSC has 8 teams, that is a good number for football. It's going to take a team leaving the BSC for someoen else to get an invite.


Huh? Explain to me how 8 teams is a good number for football? That gives a team 7 conference games a year, with an uneven home/away schedule in conference. Every other year a team only has 3 conference home games.

9 or even 10 teams is a much better number for scheduling purposes.

Craig

Bisonfan1234
01-23-2004, 03:49 AM
8 is the perfect number for an 7 week conference season.

Every team gets to play every other team (this is important...notice how controversy arises every year in the Big 10?). Every team also has a team to play for the 7 weeks of conference play. With an odd number of teams you'll have a team with noone to play every week.

10 would work for a 9 week conference season but we only play 11 weeks...and we have 3 NC teams...sso that won't work.

BisonInTexas
01-23-2004, 04:02 AM
8 is the perfect number for an 7 week conference season.

Every team gets to play every other team (this is important...notice how controversy arises every year in the Big 10?). Every team also has a team to play for the 7 weeks of conference play. With an odd number of teams you'll have a team with noone to play every week.

10 would work for a 9 week conference season but we only play 11 weeks...and we have 3 NC teams...sso that won't work.

Of course 8 is the perfect number for 7 week conference season - it is the only number. *I agree with you that the odd number of teams causes some bye weeks in the schedule for teams, but the NCC seemed to handle it. *

Also, there is no rule that you must have 3 non-conference games. *If you have 10 teams in the conference (as the NCC did for years) you simply only have two non-conference games a year. *When the NCC was 10 teams - everyone played everyone. *What the Big Ten and the Pac-10 do is only play 8 conference games so as to balance out the home conference schedules (4 home games for every team, as opposed to half having 5 and half having 4). *They effectively make their conferences a 9 team conference, because it is better for scheduling, just like I said.

Craig

Bisonguy
01-23-2004, 04:04 AM
Nine is the perfect number for a football conference. Four home conference games, four away conference games, and three or four (some years) non conference games. The Gateway Conference commish has even stated that they want to be at nine members to ease scheduling.

BisonInTexas
01-23-2004, 04:09 AM
Nine is the perfect number for a football conference. Four home conference games, four away conference games, and three or four (some years) non conference games. The Gateway Conference commish has even stated that they want to be at nine members to ease scheduling.

Thanks for the reference to the Gateway Conference commish's statement. *I was pretty sure I read that quote somewhere and was about to go searching for it. *Now I can just go to bed instead.

Craig

Bisonfan1234
01-23-2004, 04:30 AM
Who hoO! they want nine?! Hell yeah we're #9 baby!

uncbear
01-23-2004, 06:23 AM
I agree, however, if the BSC does decide to add two teams we will be in the running as well. *I also do have to say I can't figure out why UNC is not interested in the BSC. *That has always puzzled me. *

The BSC does not have baseball. There is a quiet but powerfull contingent that wants to return UNC to its former glory as a D-I baseball power. UNC is still in the top ten for most college world series appearances out of all D-I schools--I think they might be as high as sixth. I believe they have around ten appearances. The Mid-Con has baseball and UNC has a plan to renovate the baseball field. UNC and Air Force will be the only D-I baseball programs in the state and UNC wants to capitalize on the opportunity to be #1 in the state in a sport. I like the plan to concentrate on baseball but not at the cost of football which I don't think will happen. UNC's football program also has a bright future.

Bisonfan1234
01-23-2004, 05:10 PM
You could easily do that while being an independent for baseball.

Bison_Kent
01-23-2004, 06:25 PM
Fort Worth paper's article on TCU moving to the Mountain West:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/7778576.htm

Bison_Kent
01-24-2004, 01:43 AM
Just my thoughts here. *If the Mountain West (which looks very much the same geographically speaking as the Big Sky) can take a team from the Central time zone, why can't the Sky do the same thing?

TCU is the best team for the Mountain West team to add that is in the western half of the country. *

Let's just look at the conference's top 4 canidates for expansion. *

Northern Colorado:
Positives
1. Located in the geographical area and is 1 hour from Denver. *
2. Strong football program with 2 DII titles on their resume.
3. over 11,000 student population so size is similar to most Big Sky schools. *
4. Currently has all 13 core Big Sky sports.
Negatives
1. Basketball arena is second rate. *Would be better then Sac State's or Portland State's currently, however.
2. Attendence to both football and basketball is small. 2003 football=5723/game (5 games). *2003/2004 Basketball=802/game (7 games)
3. Even though in the "Big Sky" region, the closest road game would be Weber State; Odgen, UT, which is about 500 miles away.

Southern Utah:
Positives
1. Located in the Big Sky region and is close to other Big Sky schools; N. Arizona, Flagstaff 287 miles and Weber State, Ogden 286 miles.
2. Has a nice basketball facility, Centrum Arena is a 5,300 in the round arena.
3. Has all but indoor track of the Big Sky sports.
4. Already is a DI complete member.
Negatives
1. Attendence, 2003 Football 5589/game (5 games), 2003-2004 Basketball 1263/game (8 games)
2. Small college student body, 5,881 students would be the lowest in the Big Sky.
3. Location. *Getting to Cedar City would be a flight to Las Vegas and a 171 mile drive for all teams with the exception of N. Arizona and Weber State who could drive. *
4. Would need to committ to a higher level in football. *I believe they only fund 35-40 football scholorships.

South Dakota State:
Postives
1. Strong basketball tradition. *Several DII elite 8 appearances.
2. Basketball facility and attendence (Frost Arena), 2003-2004 3164/game (11 games)
3. Strong women's basketball program. *Last year's DII champions.
Negatives
1. Location. *Getting to Brookings would require a flight to Sioux Falls and a 60 mile drive. *Also, besides NDSU, the next closest school is Montana State, which is 900 miles away.
2. Football facilites (Coughlin-Alumni Stadium) need to be upgraded to match those of current Big Sky schools.
3. Would need to add men's and women's tennis to be compliant with the Big Sky's core sports.

North Dakota State:
Postives
1. Strong football tradition with 8 total national titles.
2. Strong Women's basketball tradition with 5 national titles.
3. Strong football facilities (FargoDome) & attendence, 2003 11,567/game (6 games). *This would have ranked 2nd to Montana this past season.
4. *Located in Fargo and is just 1-2 miles from an International Airport.
Negatives
1. Location. Although there is an airport in Fargo and with the exception of SDSU, the next closet school is Montana State, 750 miles away.
2. Basketball facilities need an upgrade, in the Bison Sports Arena. *Of the the four teams listed, the BSA is probably only better then N. Colorado's facility.
3. Would need to add men's and women's tennis to be compliant with the Big Sky's core sports.

Well, there is my rational on each of the four possible expansion teams. *Of course, Idaho will outweigh any of these schools as their location is ideal and they were a former BSC member. *

D
01-24-2004, 02:06 AM
Just my thoughts here. *If the Mountain West (which looks very much the same geographically speaking as the Big Sky) can take a team from the Central time zone, why can't the Sky do the same thing?

TCU is the best team for the Mountain West team to add that is in the western half of the country. *

Let's just look at the conference's top 4 canidates for expansion. *

Northern Colorado:
Positives
1. Located in the geographical area and is 1 hour from Denver. *
2. Strong football program with 2 DII titles on their resume.
3. over 11,000 student population so size is similar to most Big Sky schools. *
4. Currently has all 13 core Big Sky sports.
Negatives
1. Basketball arena is second rate. *Would be better then Sac State's or Portland State's currently, however.
2. Attendence to both football and basketball is small. 2003 football=5723/game (5 games). *2003/2004 Basketball=802/game (7 games)
3. Even though in the "Big Sky" region, the closest road game would be Weber State; Odgen, UT, which is about 500 miles away.

Southern Utah:
Positives
1. Located in the Big Sky region and is close to other Big Sky schools; N. Arizona, Flagstaff 287 miles and Weber State, Ogden 286 miles.
2. Has a nice basketball facility, Centrum Arena is a 5,300 in the round arena.
3. Has all but indoor track of the Big Sky sports.
4. Already is a DI complete member.
Negatives
1. Attendence, 2003 Football 5589/game (5 games), 2003-2004 Basketball 1263/game (8 games)
2. Small college student body, 5,881 students would be the lowest in the Big Sky.
3. Location. *Getting to Cedar City would be a flight to Las Vegas and a 171 mile drive for all teams with the exception of N. Arizona and Weber State who could drive. *
4. Would need to committ to a higher level in football. *I believe they only fund 35-40 football scholorships.

South Dakota State:
Postives
1. Strong basketball tradition. *Several DII elite 8 appearances.
2. Basketball facility and attendence (Frost Arena), 2003-2004 3164/game (11 games)
3. Strong women's basketball program. *Last year's DII champions.
Negatives
1. Location. *Getting to Brookings would require a flight to Sioux Falls and a 60 mile drive. *Also, besides NDSU, the next closest school is Montana State, which is 900 miles away.
2. Football facilites (Coughlin-Alumni Stadium) need to be upgraded to match those of current Big Sky schools.
3. Would need to add men's and women's tennis to be compliant with the Big Sky's core sports.

North Dakota State:
Postives
1. Strong football tradition with 8 total national titles.
2. Strong Women's basketball tradition with 5 national titles.
3. Strong football facilities (FargoDome) & attendence, 2003 11,567/game (6 games). *This would have ranked 2nd to Montana this past season.
4. *Located in Fargo and is just 1-2 miles from an International Airport.
Negatives
1. Location. Although there is an airport in Fargo and with the exception of SDSU, the next closet school is Montana State, 750 miles away.
2. Basketball facilities need an upgrade, although the Bison Sports Arena. *Of the the four teams listed, the BSA is probably only better then N. Colorado's facility.
3. Would need to add men's and women's tennis to be compliant with the Big Sky's core sports.

Well, there is my rational on each of the four possible expansion teams. *Of course, Idaho will outweigh any of these schools as their location is ideal and they were a former BSC member. *




Bison_Kent

Great work with that list. The only thing that I would add to the positives/negatives is SDSU's big negative in the football department. The ACC proved this year the great value and the lengths a conference will go for football schools, and how they will add schools that are good football schools despite the quality or lack thereof of these schools other sports. The Big Sky potentially adding NDSU is very similar to the ACC adding Miami and Va Tech, schools that have a dominant football past but have average/inconsistent good men's basketball programs. I strongly believe that this will play a role that is greater then most people think.

89rabbit
01-24-2004, 02:11 AM
South Dakota State:
Postives
1. Strong basketball tradition. *Several DII elite 8 appearances.
2. Basketball facility and attendence (Frost Arena), 2003-2004 3164/game (11 games)
3. Strong women's basketball program. *Last year's DII champions.
Negatives
1. Location. *Getting to Brookings would require a flight to Sioux Falls and a 60 mile drive. *Also, besides NDSU, the next closest school is Montana State, which is 900 miles away.
2. Football facilites (Coughlin-Alumni Stadium) need to be upgraded to match those of current Big Sky schools.
3. Would need to add men's and women's tennis to be compliant with the Big Sky's core sports.[*



Bison_Kent,

Nice work, but I would be remiss if I didn't correct you on a couple of things.

1. SDSU has 1 Men's NCAA D-II Championship, 1 Runner-UP, and 23 NCAA Tournament appearances (4 most all time)

2. Frost Arena (Cap. 9000) Has lead D-II in attendence 5 times in the past 8 years. (SDSU's enrollment 10,561)

3. Brookings is 53 miles from Sioux Falls. Just a short 45 min. bus ride from the Sioux Falls (Airport is on North Side of Sioux Falls).

4. SDSU already DOES HAVE Men's and Women's Tennis.

Bison_Kent
01-24-2004, 02:16 AM
Sorry about that Rabbit; especially on the tennis. *It looks like SDSU has all the core Big Sky sports. *

Didn't NDSU use to have tennis? *This might be the hook-up for NDSU. *Where can NDSU play tennis? *In looking at the tennis courts next to Dakotah Field, those look terrible.

89rabbit
01-24-2004, 02:19 AM
Bison_Kent

Great work with that list. *The only thing that I would add to the positives/negatives is SDSU's big negative in the football department. *The ACC proved this year the great value and the lengths a conference will go for football schools, and how they will add schools that are good football schools despite the quality or lack thereof of these schools other sports. *The Big Sky potentially adding NDSU is very similar to the ACC adding Miami and Va Tech, schools that have a dominant football past but have average/inconsistent good men's basketball programs. *I strongly believe that this will play a role that is greater then most people think.


D,

What you are missing is the ACC is a BASKETBALL conf. that is trying to get better at I-A football. *The Big Sky is a is a Football Conf. (I-AA were the $$$ are not as big) *which should be looking to get better at Basketball (a money sport that is played at the highest level). *One might argue that the Big Sky is the opposite of your ACC example. *SDSU brings far more to the tabel when it comes to basketball then the other three. *The fact that NDSU is GREAT at Football and SDSU is GREAT at Basketball plus the fact that we are natural travel partners is a GREAT reason for the two of us to team up! *That is how I see it! * :D

Go State!

89rabbit
01-24-2004, 02:24 AM
Sorry about that Rabbit; especially on the tennis. *It looks like SDSU has all the core Big Sky sports. *

Didn't NDSU use to have tennis? *This might be the hook-up for NDSU. *Where can NDSU play tennis? *In looking at the tennis courts next to Dakotah Field, those look terrible.



No problem! :)

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 02:43 AM
TCU is the best team for the Mountain West team to add that is in the western half of the country.

Nice try, but The line of ND-SD-NE-KS-OK is in the eastern half of the USA.

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 02:52 AM
Sorry about that Rabbit; especially on the tennis. *It looks like SDSU has all the core Big Sky sports. *

Didn't NDSU use to have tennis? *This might be the hook-up for NDSU. *Where can NDSU play tennis? *In looking at the tennis courts next to Dakotah Field, those look terrible.



Yeah you're better off not even mentioning those. That whole "tennis thing" along with dacotah and whatever else is over there is going to be parking or something worth the space. The one thing they should do is save the old student section stands that are sitting where the old home stands are and put them to use somewhere and i would like to see that old dacotah scoreboard used somewhere.

Bison_Kent
01-24-2004, 02:56 AM
I just tested your theory of Fargo being east or west.

I used the two Portland's (Oregon and Maine) as my test. I did this as both are roughly straight east and west (give or take) respectively from Fargo

Milage to Portland, OR 1500 miles

Milage to Portland, ME 1724 miles

Just go to mapquest and check it out.

Based on this Fargo is in the Western Half of the US.

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 03:01 AM
Ha, ha...nice try!

You're forgetting 2 important states...Alaska and Hawaii!

Both of those are obviously in the West, and since Alaska is so huge, as far as land is concerned, to make things even between east and west..the whole ND-OK line goes to the east to make the land even.

Bison_Kent
01-24-2004, 03:05 AM
Not to smack but we better throw in Puerto Rico in the East then too as it is a US territory. I am just playing a little bit.

1234 it is fun to smack with you a little. I know we don't agree on our conference goals but I think we both agree that we need to go somewhere.

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 03:26 AM
Territory...but not a state. This is the united STATES.

BisonInTexas
01-24-2004, 04:12 AM
I would have to add that a negative for UNC is the size of its football stadium. Doesn't it only seat 6500 or so? Unless they have plans in place to build a new one (although they just built or renovated their field a few years ago).

Another negative for Southern Utah is the fact that it is a very weak school academically and doesn't even come close to measuring up to the schools in the BSC. That has always been why I heard the Big Sky was not interested in them.

As far as the negatives for travel for NDSU and SDSU are concerned, it is true, but as it has been stated on this board before, the trips to Fargo and Brookings would probably be easier (and certainly no worse) for almost all of the teams in the BSC than would the current trip to Flagstaff.

Craig

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 04:36 AM
Another negative for Southern Utah is the fact that it is a very weak school academically and doesn't even come close to measuring up to the schools in the BSC. That has always been why I heard the Big Sky was not interested in them.

Right...yeah i'm sure they do a thorough inspection of the football player's grades...

ralph
01-24-2004, 04:56 AM
http://i-aa.org/images/articles/37174_Regions.jpg (http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=37174)

89rabbit
01-24-2004, 04:59 AM
BisonFan1234,

No BisonInTexas is right. *Southern Utah's academics as an institution have been called into question by other members of the Big Sky. *One of the main arguments that SDSU has made to the Naysayers/FES gang is that we want to be with like institutions, I am sure the Big Sky feel the same way. *

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 06:37 AM
http://i-aa.org/images/articles/37174_Regions.jpg (http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=37174)
THat is for 4 reigions...we were just looking at 2.

And i was going off a purely equal land amount split.

WYOBISONMAN
01-24-2004, 10:22 AM
Bisonfan1234....you have to break out of your MN mindset. Remember it is NORTH DAKOTA State University and North Dakota has many more ties with the BSC States and schools that any other conference in the country. Maybe you need to go on out to where I used to live (Williston) and let the cowboys and oil workers know that they are in the East and that really they have much more in common with the folks in Iowa and Illinois than say a place like Montana. You might not get out of there in one piece.... ;)

Bisonfan1234
01-24-2004, 04:52 PM
Sorry...the people, the money, and the school are a stone's throw away from Minnesota and the East.

Bisonguy
01-25-2004, 12:31 AM
Minnesota is in the West Region for I-AA, thus NDSU is securely a Western I-AA school.

Bisonfan1234
01-25-2004, 12:42 AM
Yeah for the 4 reigion break-up, it is.

But for 2 reigions it isn't necessarily.

Bisonguy
01-25-2004, 01:23 AM
Yeah for the 4 reigion break-up, it is.

But for 2 reigions it isn't necessarily.


Correct. The west region would extend to Ohio and Kentucky if there are only two regions.

Bisonfan1234
01-25-2004, 02:57 AM
The west region should receed to let the ND-OK line go to the east.

Bison_Kent
01-25-2004, 03:02 AM
If you want to do it fairly. The West map will have 25 states in in the West and 25 in the East.

The West border states would be Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, and Texas. The East states would be Wisconsin, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Louisana. If you count them and include Alaska and Hawaii, this is how the line is drawn.

Plus, this is how it is drawn in the NBA for East and West Conferences. Milwaukee is in the East Conference. Minnesota (Twin Cities) is in the West.

Bisonguy
01-25-2004, 03:10 AM
The west region should receed to let the ND-OK line go to the east.

Those western states would have to secede from the West, and then we would have The Civil War II.

Bisonfan1234
01-25-2004, 04:59 AM
IMO 25-25 is also a non-fair way to work things out because the western states are so much larger than the eastern states.

It needs to be equal size of land.

I know when you look on the map it doesn't look right to have ND-OK be on the east, but when you add in Alaska and Hawaii...you're adding about 2 more WA-OR-CA rows to the west.

It works out.

WYOBISONMAN
01-25-2004, 09:35 AM
Man...I am not sure where you get your thought process Bison1234, but if you haven't figured it out there is no one else on this board that sees it your way. Is the whole world crazy and you are the only sane person?? :o

Bisonguy
01-25-2004, 03:57 PM
1234,

Go out to the east coast and see how much more densely populated it is. Land area is not an adequate criteria.

Bisonfan1234
01-25-2004, 05:44 PM
Land area is the ONLY adequate criteria.

Bison_Kent
01-25-2004, 06:32 PM
This is not accurate but if there are say 80 universities in your eastern half and 10 in the in the western half, this is a good seperation.

I would think that you would want an equal number of schools in the east as west. This should be the correct way to seperate the east to west.

I don't even know why I am argueing as it seems pointless to 1234.

Bison_Kent
01-25-2004, 08:01 PM
Lets get back to the original title of this topic.

The latest news is the possibility of Texas-El Paso to Conference USA from the WAC.

This may also help NDSU. An opening in the WAC would allow Idaho to be added to the WAC.

Keep in mind that Boise State may also leave the WAC to the Mountain West Conference.

Things out West are starting to turn now.

Here is the El Paso paper link:

http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/sports/todaysstories/20040125-72877.shtml

Bisonfan1234
01-25-2004, 11:40 PM
So what if Idaho isn't going to the BSC? They never were, it was a pipe dream.

So i fail to see how this increases our chances of going to the BSC...which i also see as a pipe dream.

The "great west" conference is basically finished and will start play in 2006 (with the possibility of Sac State joining as well).

Bison_Kent
01-26-2004, 12:16 AM
I am not saying that the Great West Conference won't be in NDSU's future but it may not be after the probationary period is over. A conference that has a full range of sports will be for lucative.

Bisonfan1234
01-26-2004, 01:57 AM
Not only DOESN'T the BSC have a full range of sports, the GW/MC combo DOES have a full range.

WYOBISONMAN
01-26-2004, 05:45 AM
It is pointless to argue with 1234. I am going to ignore his rants and just chalk it up to a guy from MN that has spent little time outside the state other than a stint at NDSU. I must say all the people from MN I have ever known have a much broader perspective of life in ND after attending NDSU.

JBB
01-26-2004, 12:01 PM
Whats the chance of getting into the Missouri Conference? I just dont see the possibility.

NDSU_grad
01-26-2004, 02:31 PM
I think MC stands for Mid-Con.

Bisonfan1234
01-26-2004, 04:00 PM
Yup, i'm actually excited for this new football conference. Screw the Big Sky for sure and forget the Gateway if they're not interested. Then we'll just pick up the mid-con for the rest of the sports.

Bison_Kent
01-30-2004, 01:47 AM
TCU looks like a done deal to the Mountain West.

Here is the story:

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2004/0129/1722443.html

WYOBISONMAN
01-30-2004, 02:21 AM
Yes, the folks here in Wyoming are not at all happy with the addition to the mWC...

Bison_Kent
01-30-2004, 02:37 AM
I might think that a conference that picked up a central time region school might be a good thing. This is especially true in looking at another conference in a similar region.... ala the Big Sky.

D
01-30-2004, 02:46 AM
Yes, the folks here in Wyoming are not at all happy with the addition to the mWC...

That is interesting because one of my good friends plays at Wyoming, and he said the fans didn't like the thought of the TCU addition, exactly what you said, but the players and coaching staff love it. I'd think TCU would be a welcome addition to the MWC, especially for the fans, because it raises the level of the conference for football especially. The Wyoming football program is on the rise, big time, and the conference has bitched and moaned about its # of automatic bowl bids the past few seasons. This move can only raise that #. Is it a geographic gripe with the fans?

Bisonfan1234
01-30-2004, 03:56 AM
I might think that a conference that picked up a central time region school might be a good thing. *This is especially true in looking at another conference in a similar region.... ala the Big Sky.
EWU,PSU,CSU-S,NAU = pacific
UMT, MSU,ISU,WSU = mountain

WYOBISONMAN
01-30-2004, 03:15 PM
Just to point out Bisonfan1234.....NAU is in the Mountain Time Zone. *You do not get to the Pacific Time Zone until you get to Nevada or California when traveling west from Arizona. *Arizona, however, does not switch to daylight savings time. *If you would ever look beyond the borders of Minnesota you would realize some of these things..... 8)

Bisonfan1234
01-30-2004, 05:36 PM
So in otherwords, Arizona goes between Pacific and Moutain.

somebison
01-30-2004, 05:50 PM
So in otherwords, Arizona goes between Pacific and Moutain.

actually it goes between central and mountain

BisonInTexas
01-30-2004, 06:22 PM
actually it goes between central and mountain


Nope. Arizona is always in Mountain Standard Time (MST). In the summer when everyone else "springs" forward, Arizona stays in MST, making the time equivalent to Pacific Daylight Time.

Since I lived in Tucson for two years and kept having to explain this to my parents when they would call, I figure I know how it works...


Craig

P.S. Egads! Did I just agree with 1234? Excuse me while I go and shower.

somebison
01-30-2004, 06:42 PM
i guess i better not try and argue with 1234 anymore ;)

WYOBISONMAN
01-30-2004, 07:06 PM
D- The reason the fans here in Wyoming are so unhappy about TCU coming to the MWC stems from the days that Wyoming was in the WAC. *If you remember, the old WAC is really what the current MWC is. *The WAC had been stable for years and then for some reason started to expand by first letting in some Texas schools. *Finally there were so many teams in the WAC that Wyoming would only wind up playing thier rivals (CSU and BYU) only every other year. *This is what made the original WAC members split from the WAC and form the MWC. *Thus, the MWC is basically the old WAC prior to the big expansion. *I think the fans fear the same thing happening to the MWC.

Bison_Kent
01-30-2004, 08:26 PM
Rumor on e-griz has Sac State out in 6-12 months from the 'Sky.

Take it for what it is worth.

Here is the link.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/viewtopic.php?t=3765

WYOBISONMAN
01-30-2004, 08:43 PM
Not sure what to make of that one. I like the first part, but not the last.

WYOBISONMAN
01-30-2004, 09:50 PM
Thoughts on that EGRIZ thread....

It is surprising that some of the Giz fans are still hung up on the travel idea. All of the potential expansion schools for the BSC (including UNC) would require air travel for all current conference members. If you get on a plane in Missoula it makes no difference if you fly to Denver or Fargo.

I also would be very surprised to see Davis interested in a BSC berth when they are in the Big West which gives them many games in a "California conference". In reality the Sky's bet option is NDSU/SDSU as travel partners. I think in the end they will have to go for us. It is the only reasonable choice that will be out there.

Sac_State
01-30-2004, 10:49 PM
Cal Poly has a smaller budget than Sac State. If you think travel to Sacramento is far from Mazzola, try San Luis Obispo. That's partly why Cal Poly dropped the SLO, 'where/what is SLO' was asked. Cal Poly has a good track program and baseball is permanent, no baseball is Sky country. Rumor Busted!

Davis is too good for those 'farm boys and mountain men' of the Sky. They want tea and crumpets. The rivalry with it's hated and often publically ridiculed brother, Sac State, is too important regionally to lose annually in all sports in conference. The old NCAC still holds deep hate/love bipolar characteristics between these two schools. I see Davis teaming in all sports with the other UC's (Riverside, Irvine, SB,?) if for no other reason than to limit travel expense and gain IA operating experience before moving up. This is also to say that Davis will always have more money than Sac State. In California, there is only one higher education system that is fully funded by the California government. The UC receives the silver spoon. All CSU's, including Cal Poly SLO and Pomona, Maritime, etc. receive state general budget money based on FTE's (Full time equivalent students) *from a 'floating' line item budget based year to year on the whim of the Governator. So, funding has spikes and valleys, in this case cesspools. Making department, facility, ancilitory services, and student support shakey at best. For the past twenty some years, the government has been subsidizing an education at a CSU and UC. That is stopping and tuition and services are rising fast. Rumor 15% chance.

What shocks me, is that a full time student at Sac State, and generally any CSU, pays about half of what a similar student would pay in any other state for a similar semester. What do they want everything for free?

I think Sac might drop the Sky, and play a role similar to what Cal Poly is doing now. Local conference games, independent football schedule to give the school time to access the true potential and plot growth or enhancement of status quo(building a permanent football stadium and new fieldhouse) of the football program. Sac State will never drop football, if alone for the Davis rivalry, than for the few spikes of national success of its sports alumni and desire to be a flagship campus of the CSU. You MUST play football to be a flagship CSU, aka. San Diego, San Jose, Fresno all make similar 'flagship' claims.

Sac State is 5 miles from the Capitol on the same straight road, J street. The area is undergoing a tremoundous redevelopment of shops, bars, residences, and the street runs ground zero in the growth plans of Sac State. In five years the area will be hopping as the Riverfront is adjacent.

Fresno, Davis, San Jose, Nevada, Boise, Hawaii, San Diego is shaky, USU, Idaho, ? that is the league Sac State will eventually grow into. Not next year, but all systems will be go to try and get there by the school.

Sac State fits a different mold than any other Sky team, sans PSU. Sac has 29,000 students, almost double the traditional Sky members, and expects 40,000 by the end of the decade. And the Sky doesn't play baseball or softball.

How 'bout them banana's!

Bisonfan1234
01-30-2004, 11:36 PM
Thoughts on that EGRIZ thread....

It is surprising that some of the Giz fans are still hung up on the travel idea. *All of the potential expansion schools for the BSC (including UNC) would require air travel for all current conference members. *If you get on a plane in Missoula it makes no difference if you fly to Denver or Fargo.

I also would be very surprised to see Davis interested in a BSC berth when they are in the Big West which gives them many games in a "California conference". *In reality the Sky's bet option is NDSU/SDSU as travel partners. *I think in the end they will have to go for us. *It is the only reasonable choice that will be out there.


You're so blind man. They don't want us, face it. Now that Idaho is looking worse and worse they're just going to try and pressure Cal-Davis into joining.

I bet us beating Montana was the final straw for them.

WYOBISONMAN
01-31-2004, 12:58 AM
Wow.....did someone hear some wind blowing?

Bisonfan1234
01-31-2004, 01:17 AM
Cal Poly has a smaller budget than Sac State. If you think travel to Sacramento is far from Mazzola, try San Luis Obispo. That's partly why Cal Poly dropped the SLO, 'where/what is SLO' was asked. Cal Poly has a good track program and baseball is permanent, no baseball is Sky country. Rumor Busted!

Davis is too good for those 'farm boys and mountain men' of the Sky. They want tea and crumpets. The rivalry with it's hated and often publically ridiculed brother, Sac State, is too important regionally to lose annually in all sports in conference. The old NCAC still holds deep hate/love bipolar characteristics between these two schools. I see Davis teaming in all sports with the other UC's (Riverside, Irvine, SB,?) if for no other reason than to limit travel expense and gain IA operating experience before moving up. This is also to say that Davis will always have more money than Sac State. In California, there is only one higher education system that is fully funded by the California government. The UC receives the silver spoon. All CSU's, including Cal Poly SLO and Pomona, Maritime, etc. receive state general budget money based on FTE's (Full time equivalent students) *from a 'floating' line item budget based year to year on the whim of the Governator. So, funding has spikes and valleys, in this case cesspools. Making department, facility, ancilitory services, and student support shakey at best. For the past twenty some years, the government has been subsidizing an education at a CSU and UC. That is stopping and tuition and services are rising fast. Rumor 15% chance.

What shocks me, is that a full time student at Sac State, and generally any CSU, pays about half of what a similar student would pay in any other state for a similar semester. What do they want everything for free?

I think Sac might drop the Sky, and play a role similar to what Cal Poly is doing now. Local conference games, independent football schedule to give the school time to access the true potential and plot growth or enhancement of status quo(building a permanent football stadium and new fieldhouse) of the football program. Sac State will never drop football, if alone for the Davis rivalry, than for the few spikes of national success of its sports alumni and desire to be a flagship campus of the CSU. You MUST play football to be a flagship CSU, aka. San Diego, San Jose, Fresno all make similar 'flagship' claims.

Sac State is 5 miles from the Capitol on the same straight road, J street. The area is undergoing a tremoundous redevelopment of shops, bars, residences, and the street runs ground zero in the growth plans of Sac State. In five years the area will be hopping as the Riverfront is adjacent.

Fresno, Davis, San Jose, Nevada, Boise, Hawaii, San Diego is shaky, USU, Idaho, ? that is the league Sac State will eventually grow into. Not next year, but all systems will be go to try and get there by the school.

Sac State fits a different mold than any other Sky team, sans PSU. Sac has 29,000 students, almost double the traditional Sky members, and expects 40,000 by the end of the decade. And the Sky doesn't play baseball or softball.

How 'bout them banana's!



Indeed. Here is an even better proposal: joing the big west for all sports except football. You'll get to compete against all your traditional california buddies including Davis.

For football, join the Heartland Pacific conference (some people call it the Great Western here) for football. It will pretty much be better than the Big Sky already. NDSU, SDSU, UNC, SSU, UC-Davis, Cal Poly-SLO, Saint Mary's. Add to that Sac State, and hey, that's 8 members and a strong football conference!

Bisonfan1234
01-31-2004, 01:21 AM
I'm confused. Is Davis joining the Big West or the CCAA??

I just noticed that there are 2 Cal Poly's. SLO is in the Big West and Pamona (good d2 bball) is in the CCAA.

I looked at the CCAA's website and they have Davis with an (i) next to their name.

So which is it?

Bison_Kent
01-31-2004, 01:30 AM
The Big West has accepted UC-Davis but I don't think it will be until the 2005 season. The CCAA is the DII California Conference.

Sac_State
01-31-2004, 05:21 AM
*The CCAA is the DII California Conference. *


....that Davis still currently competes in for all sports sans football. It is made up of CSU San Bernardino, Cal Poly Pomona(the original Cal Poly), CSU Bakersfield, CSU Chico, CSU Stainlaus, ah hell, http://goccaa.org/members.htm

Pretty good D2 league, the CCAA doesn't play football.

Humboldt State (CSU) is an oddity. They play in the Great NorthWest Conference with Alaska-Anchor and Fair, Simon Fraser, etc. and still play football! I commend them for not stripping their football like most of the other D2 Cali teams.

Chico could light it up with parties on a home game night. Coincidentaly, Chico has a proud tradition and alumni base due to these 'football' related activities, too bad it was cut.

Bisonfan1234
01-31-2004, 07:29 AM
They also have a prison.

ralph
01-31-2004, 10:15 AM
...I just noticed that there are 2 Cal Poly's. SLO is in the Big West and Pamona (good d2 bball) is in the CCAA...
1234 has been paying attention!

WYOBISONMAN
01-31-2004, 03:10 PM
Good one Ralph!

JBB
01-31-2004, 03:34 PM
Unless there is something Im missing I dont even give the BSC a 50-50 chance. We had better move ahead with the new conference and try to find games for the other sports. The NCC boycott of NDSU is hurting for sure, but it will soon be forgotten.

Im starting to get real concerned about the conference situation. We might end up in the independent catagory for a number of years. We might even have to wait until other regional schools make the move. That would help make all sports members a reality. The football league has a lot of advantages for the region. I hope we can get the scheduling opportunities we need as independents for providing that.

A school in any existing conferece we join is going to get a smaller piece of the conference pie. I dont know what we bring to the table to off set that? I just hope we get cooperation from the existing conferences to leave open dates throughout the season so the independents can find games.

WYOBISONMAN
01-31-2004, 04:26 PM
I actually think that we have a real good shot at the Big Sky. It gets down to who else is there.... Davis is not a real possibility. UNC isn't interested in the BSC. Idaho isn't moving back down. To preserve the quality of the conference the BSC will need NDSU and SDSU. In the interim the GWC is a great home with great competition. In the mean time our other sports can be independent for a couple years. We have to be patient and wait for the best option for NDSU.

89rabbit
01-31-2004, 04:29 PM
I think we will have a commitment from either the Big Sky or the Mid-Con (playing football in the GWC) on or before this time next year. I feel really good about our chances.

Go SDSU, Go NDSU!

Bisonfan1234
01-31-2004, 06:56 PM
They said the Dakota schools are out on the Egriz board.

Just face it guys.

The new conference is already moving and we will be playing that conference in 2006. Meanwhile, with the Mid-con being managers of the new football conference, all the mid-west members will be joining the Mid-con and all the western members will be joining the Big West (or whatever).

This is just how it's going to be guys. The Big Sky is a pipe dream, that's it. Sorry.

GoAgs
01-31-2004, 07:00 PM
.... It is made up of CSU San Bernardino, Cal Poly Pomona(the original Cal Poly

How is Pomona the original Cal Poly when it was created as a satellite campus of CP-SLO?

Cal Poly-San Dimas established 1938 moved to Pomona in 1967 and became independent from CP-SLO.

Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo established 1901.

JBB
01-31-2004, 07:14 PM
I think Bison1234 is right. If we bring football to the Mid-Con we will be brining something to the table in the form of management revenues and Mid-Con expansion by bringing football under the umbrella.

In return it seems like the Mid Con has a lot of options. There are a lot of schools rumored to want in. A North South division set up would be very workable. To me its the best bet. Probably the fastest way for us to be eligable for a auto bid in Football and BB too.

WYOBISONMAN
01-31-2004, 07:37 PM
There will never be a decent rivalry that develops out of the Mid Con and it will hurt home attendance. You will also loose a whole lot of interest from the Western 1/2 of North Dakota.

Bisonfan1234
01-31-2004, 07:58 PM
LOL! Oh no..not that!!!!

All the people live in the RR Valley anyway, so who cares?

As far as the Mid-con split, i think a West-East split would work out better.

2006 Heartland Pacific Conference Standings:
NDSU 7-0
UNC 5-2
UC-Davis 5-2
SDSU 4-3
Cal Poly-SLO 3-4
SSU 2-5
CSU-Sacromento 2-5
St. Mary's 0-7

2006 Mid-Con West Standings:
NDSU 10-0
SDSU 8-2
UNC 6-4
SSU 4-6
UMKC 2-8
Chicago St 0-10

Get used to it now guys.

SDSU, UNC are our new rivals.

89rabbit
01-31-2004, 08:15 PM
I was watching the Mid-Con game of the week on Fox Sports Net - Midwest (Oakland vs Chicago St.) and at half time the TV crew talked with Oakland's President Dr. Gary Russi. Dr. Russi said that expansion is a "hot topic" and that the Mid-Con will be having meetings soon on that topic. He went onto say that the question is how big, do they stop at ten, or possibly go to 12 teams and have divisional play "East-West".

I've said it before, and I will say it again. It makes sense for the Mid-Con to go to 12 and cut down on the travel costs. With 9 teams currently it would make sense to add SDSU, NDSU, and UNC (especially since we, and SUU, will all be in the Football only Conf. that the Mid-Con is going to administer). That is if the Big Sky does not beat them to the punch.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

89rabbit
01-31-2004, 08:26 PM
By the way if you do a Mid-Con split, my guess is that it looks like this:

East

Chicago St.
Valpo
IUPUI
Oakland
Western Ill.
Centenary

West

SDSU
NDSU
UMKC
Oral Roberts
UNC
SUU

Bisonfan1234
01-31-2004, 08:51 PM
Yeah i think you're right rabbit. I don't know why but i was thinking Oral Robets was in Detroit.

Sac_State
01-31-2004, 09:11 PM
How is Pomona the original Cal Poly when it was created as a satellite campus of CP-SLO?

Cal Poly-San Dimas established 1938 moved to Pomona in 1967 and became independent from CP-SLO.

Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo established 1901.

Cal Poly Pomona was the first of the Cal Poly's to go DI. They dropped football and returned to D2 when I-AA was formed.

JBB
01-31-2004, 09:48 PM
Obviously it would be an east/west split. *It looks good, and it could absorb a couple of new teams for all sports if there are any more regional teams that make the move in the future. *

I like the looks of the west division Mid Con and the split as a whole. *It looks to me that 89Rabbit has been right every time he said it. * There will be a split Mid-Con for all sports but football and the new football conference will be managed by the Mid-Con. We are all going to be in it.

Bisonguy
01-31-2004, 10:48 PM
I say screw any other schools that move up. Why would NDSU want to play provisionals after the probationary period? Let them be an indy for a few years until they prove they belong in DI.

mojobison
02-01-2004, 12:00 AM
If UND moves up, NDSU would be stupid to let them in the same conference considering how they've acted in the past.

Bisonguy
02-01-2004, 12:12 AM
All the members of the NCC were given a chance to move up, even leaving the conference intact. Any school that wants to move up after the fact should not benefit from the groundwork done by NDSU, SDSU, and UNC. Let them suffer and see if it was a sound decision.

Bisonfan1234
02-01-2004, 02:41 AM
Maybe i'm too nice to UND, but i wouldn't care if they wanted to join our conference right away. We had a nice rivalry with them once upon a time and it would be nice to restart it. We'l always have the satisfacton of knowing that we did all the leg work and they just stood on our shoulders.

NDSU_grad
02-01-2004, 03:50 AM
I think a wildcard in this whole discussion will be Denver University. It's been rumored they will leave the SunBelt for the Mid-Con, as the former becomes geographically tighter as it sees the exodus of New Mexico State and possibly Idaho. I don't what that would mean, just another thing to think about I guess.

Bisonfan1234
02-01-2004, 05:34 AM
I thought Denver was D3 for all sports. Why the sudden jump to all D1 sports?

Bisonguy
02-01-2004, 05:37 AM
You're thinking of Colorado College. Denver has been DI for quite a while.

89rabbit
02-03-2004, 05:39 AM
I think a wildcard in this whole discussion will be Denver University. *It's been rumored they will leave the SunBelt for the Mid-Con, as the former becomes geographically tighter as it sees the exodus of New Mexico State and possibly Idaho. *I don't what that would mean, just another thing to think about I guess.

I have heard that also. *My guess is the Mid-Con adds either UNC or Denver to be a travel partner for SUU but not both. *Because if they did add the two of them then SUU is in the same boat they are in now.

That being said, if SUU was to look to a western conf. it would open the door for the Mid-Con to pick them both up (IMHO this is not a likely scenario, but you never know). *Think how nice the Mid-Con West Div.would be with Denver and UNC being the far western edge.

If SUU stays, I think UNC has the edge because of football. That of course only makes sense if SDSU and NDSU are also added bringing the Mid-Con football playing members of the GWC to 4. Just my thoughts on the matter.