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Bison_Kent
02-26-2004, 03:28 PM
I don't usually like the way McFeely writes but I will have to agree with him on his latest article.

Here it is:

http://www.in-forum.com/columnists/index.cfm?page=article&id=51430&columnist=mikemcfe ely

WYOBISONMAN
02-26-2004, 03:38 PM
I think that McFeely summed up the thought of most of us in that article. He did a nice job on that one!

Answer_Man
02-26-2004, 04:07 PM
So your McFeely's best buddy when he talks your language? If McFeely agrees the BSC is the way to go, the BSC must not be the right conference to join. * ;)

JBB
02-26-2004, 04:32 PM
Lets just say he avoided offending most BISON fans with that one. After a couple of years of denegrating the move he is slowly coming on board. The truest statement in the article was his comparison of the D2 NCC and the Great West. Obviously DI-AA and the GWFC is a big step up.

I also thought he is expecting the Mid Con for other sports. That writing seems to be on the wall. I think its going to make an excellent combination.

Junior
02-26-2004, 06:26 PM
The thing to remember about McFeely is:

...Even a blind chicken can peck some corn.

Bisonfan1234
02-26-2004, 06:28 PM
McFeely = Wyobison?!?!

McFeely could have just came on this board and copy/pasted different posts to get that article.

The GWFC are ALREADY as good as the BSC. We should want to go to something BETTER. Gateway is the only answer there.

However...i very much like this GW/Mid con thing we have going. I'd like to stay here for about 10 years...build up a solid base of kicking ass..then move into the Gateway/MVC.

WYOBISONMAN
02-26-2004, 06:49 PM
Yes....1234 is indeed the Mid-Con comish....

JACKGUY
02-26-2004, 07:09 PM
I don't know how to say it anymore bluntly the Mid-Cont sucks! The conference members are a joke. I realize it may be our only option but let's not pretend it's more than it really is and that is a bad collection of schools in some a miserable conference. The only thing that is worse than the Mid-Cont is being DI Independent but not by much. I think the NCC has more going for it than the Mid-Cont!

Answer_Man
02-26-2004, 07:10 PM
Now that we've confirmed the identity of the Mid-Con commish and Mcfeely, which one of you is Gene Taylor? Wasn't it him who said that the press conference that the message boards were ablaze about the Great West Football Conference. Can't remember his exact words. ::)

Bisonfan1234
02-26-2004, 09:06 PM
I don't know how to say it anymore bluntly the Mid-Cont sucks! The conference members are a joke. I realize it may be our only option but let's not pretend it's more than it really is and that is a bad collection of schools in some a miserable conference. The only thing that is worse than the Mid-Cont is being DI Independent but not by much. I think the NCC has more going for it than the Mid-Cont!

If SDSU thinks they're too good for the mid-con, then i laugh. Fine..be independent.

Also..if you really are so good...then you should clean up in the mid-con!!!! What better way to advertise yourself to top conferences then cleaning up year after year??

The mid-con has some good teams too! One of them killed Texas A&M and lost by 5 to then #5 Mizzou. I think you would lose to them.

JBB
02-26-2004, 09:15 PM
The NCC doesnt have anything going for it. Kansas City or Grand Forks? Chicago or Vermillion? Indianapolis or St. Cloud? Let me see....

The NCC is not that good either. Somebody said it was alread at the level of DI mid majors. I dont think so. SDSU dominates and they arent even ranked #1 in the country. Take a look at the top 10 in D2 hardly the kind of company a good mid major team would find themselves in.

JACKGUY
02-26-2004, 09:35 PM
Your right were not ranked #1 in the country were #2.
My point is Bison 1234 seems to be enamored about joining forces with schools such as Centenary,Chicago State,IUPUI and Oakland. I'm not. I like the look of the GWC for football but think the Mid-Cont is the bottom of the barrel. I understand the Missouri valley and Horizon are a stretch but would be much better than the Mid-Cont. Bottom line is Big Sky is the best scenario for both NDSU and SDSU hands down and I believe it will happen within the next year. I think people underestimate the level of Basketball played in the NCC. I think the top teams in the NCC could compete in the Big Sky, Mid Cont right now even with the scholarship disadvantage.

JACKGUY
02-26-2004, 09:39 PM
Bison 1234 attend a jacks game before giving your usual uneducated opinion about whether we can compete with Mid-Cont members.

D
02-26-2004, 09:41 PM
The mid-con has some good teams too! One of them killed Texas A&M and lost by 5 to then #5 Mizzou. I think you would lose to them.


This has been explained before. Big deal if a team beats Texas A & M, this isn't football, they are brutal in basketball. Oakland, the team you are referring, is 10-16, 5-10 in conference, and has an RPI ranked in the bottom 100 in th ecountry. They are not a good team at all, SDSU would have no problem with them.

JACKGUY
02-26-2004, 09:56 PM
Now I'm worried D and I are on the same side? I'm not going to insuate SDSU,UNO,USD and other teams in the NCC who are consistently in the conference hunt can beat the teams in the top Basketball conferences. However the conferences we are talking about namely the Mid-Cont and the Big Sky I'm confident we can compete now. Basketball is a lot different than football in terms of how many good players it takes to turn around a program.

JBB
02-26-2004, 11:14 PM
How many times has SDSU been on ESPN this year? If SDSU wins the NCC do they get an auto invite to the NCCAA? How much exposure did SDSU get this season when they went on the road? How did that exposure help the university? Your right it didnt.

Both SDSU and NDSU have to increase their presence in markets outside of the traditional sphere of the NCC schools because these traditional markets are not growing. Do you think that und and usd are locking us out because they think they will get beat? I think they are locking us out because they no longer want us in their markets. If DI athletics helps us grow acedemically certainly und is going to move and maybe usd too.

Because your ranked #2 doesnt make the NCC a competitive D1 conference. In fact it proves my point. Its barely a competitive D2 conference. With UNC, SDSU and NDSU gone it no longer stacks up with the best in the country. Its an empty uniform.

Bisonfan1234
02-26-2004, 11:30 PM
Fine...so SDSU is obviously going to win the Mid-con with little effort.

At the least it will make you look attractive for the MVC...which is NDSU/SDSU's best option in the future.

WYOBISONMAN
02-26-2004, 11:38 PM
I do have to say 1234 is a minority opinion with his Mid-
Con talk....but a darn vocal one at that... ::)

Bisonfan1234
02-27-2004, 12:06 AM
Minority rights

89rabbit
02-27-2004, 01:34 AM
I really don't mind the Mid-Con (They are ahead of the BSC in the RPI), if they are ready for us I say lets go. Look how exciting having a home for football is. I would love to have a home for the rest of our athletic teams*!

Go State!




*I know we would still need a home for wrestling, but I think that is coming.

NDSU_grad
02-27-2004, 02:21 AM
Really the only problem with the Mid-Con is perception. *Schools like IUPUI and Chicago St. just don't have the name recognition like Montana and Idaho St. do. *Also, academically they may not be on par with the SU's. *I really wouldn't mind the Mid-Con, but I think the Horizon would be fantastic. *There was talk about the Horizon way back when all this talk started but I haven't heard of anything lately. *It's definitely a long shot, but we may as well dream big.

89rabbit
02-27-2004, 02:48 AM
If you are going to dream, go for the Big One! MVC/GFC! They have great Basketball and Football and the schools are for the most part like us!

Go State!

Bisonfan1234
02-27-2004, 03:15 AM
If you are going to dream, go for the Big One! *MVC/GFC! *They have great Basketball and Football and the schools are for the most part like us! *

Go State!

Right on brother!

BTW...what the hell!? Who cares about academics?!?!

We are good at academics...let NDSU worry about how NDSU does academically.

We aren't giving our players tests after the games!! ::) ::)

Jeez...if you're trying to use academics as an excuse to get into a conference then that's just sad.

WYOBISONMAN
02-27-2004, 04:59 AM
Three words....Big Sky Conference.....

Tuk
02-27-2004, 05:48 AM
With no offense intended WyoBisonMan:

Three words: Not gonna happen :)

just my opinion tho..... I could be wrong

JACKGUY
02-27-2004, 05:04 PM
Missouri Valley Conference would be the ultimate dream for us big Basketball fans. Playing teams in the region such as the likes of UNI, Drake and Creighton would be unbelievable.

tony
02-27-2004, 05:38 PM
JD Trainer makes a pretty convincing argument that NDSU/SDSU are never going to get an invite to the Big Sky:

BisonInsider: JD Trainer's 2/23 Bison Beat column (http://bisonrule.tripod.com/bisoninsider/id10.html)

Much as I'd like to get in the Big Sky, I really like the idea of the Great West. If that means the Mid Con, so be it. NDSU and SDSU can help elevate the Mid Con (I think).

uncbear
02-27-2004, 05:51 PM
This statement might get a laugh but I think the UNC basketball team is going to be good. With the addition of UNC, SDSU, and NDSU, I think the Mid-con could be a competitive basketball conference along with other sports.

The GWFC is already a competitive football conference so I think GWFC/Mid-con is the way to go.

JBB
02-27-2004, 06:32 PM
The MId Con has an auto bid to the NCAA doesnt it? If so, thats a huge step.

WYOBISONMAN
02-27-2004, 06:36 PM
But....the Mid-Con is not a conference of top schools in the respective states. It is a conference of second tier institutions. NDSU deserves better than that. We need to set our sights higher than the Mid-Con. The Mid-Con is nothing to get excited about. Kind of like going to prom with the fat girl. Maybe it is better than staying home.....maybe not. The Mid-Con is a fat girl.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-27-2004, 06:50 PM
Bison 1234,
Please dont use a Texas A&M win to justify the strength of a Mid Con team. They are winless in the Big 12 with 2 losses to Baylor. SDSU would beat the stuffin' out of A&M this year and the Bison might as well. The Mid Con probably will be our basketball home for a while, its better than no conference and I do think with some larger State universities it may elevate the conference. I still want the BSC.

JBB
02-27-2004, 06:53 PM
If we join and we are all we say we are, the conference is being upgraded with 3 top notch programs. Then we have our already existing conference mate Southern Utah so whats to complain about? They should be rejoicing. I dont think many of the MCn fans are too excited about us.

This didnt come from a very reliable source, but Central Missouri has been rumored to be thinking about DI. They would be a nice addition too.

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-27-2004, 06:58 PM
I agree with the Mid Con becoming better with the addition of the SU's and UNC. at least it will make it more regionally reconizable.... Central Mo. would be a nice school to move up. so would NW Missouri St.

D
02-27-2004, 07:04 PM
But....the Mid-Con is not a conference of top schools in the respective states. *It is a conference of second tier institutions. *NDSU deserves better than that. *We need to set our sights higher than the Mid-Con. *The Mid-Con is nothing to get excited about. *Kind of like going to prom with the fat girl. *Maybe it is better than staying home.....maybe not. *The Mid-Con is a fat girl.

My thoughts on the Mid-Con are the exact same. Honestly, on the academic side of the spectrum a lot of the Mid-Con schools are glorified community colleges as far as admissions and ciriculum (Chicago St, IUPUI, UMKC, Oakland). The basketball programs are not good at all with the exception of Valpo. There is great turnover within the conference with regards to team rosters, a lot of players quitting teams, getting kicked out of school, transferring. That is not a good sign. There is a much larger then average coach turnover rate as well. Overall, there is a lot of instability in the conference, not good for the image and productivity of the league and it's athletes.

IowaBison
02-27-2004, 07:09 PM
The question is WyoBison, does the fat girl put out?

tony
02-27-2004, 07:22 PM
I heard a year or so ago from the D2football.com folks that Central Mo was looking at moving up - soon afterwards they ran into some budget problems though.

The Big Sky isn't dead. They need to add teams and unless the NCAA pushes some schools out of DI-AA, there isn't much to choose from.

IMO, NDSU needs a conference badly and just can't afford to pass up any invitations.

WYOBISONMAN
02-27-2004, 07:30 PM
You never get far enough with the fat girl to see if she puts out. (Or atleast you shouldn't try it.... ;))

The bottom line on my thinking with a conference like the Mid-Con is that NDSU did not make this move to D1 so that we can enhance some sub-par conference. NDSU is making the move to D1 to enhance NDSU. I just think there are much better places for NDSU than the Mid-Con. Places that will do much more for NDSU and NDSU's image. Schools like Chicago St, IUPUI, UMKC and Oakland are not even close to being at the level of NDSU in academics or prestige. They are truely second tier schools in thier respective states and that is not a group that NDSU should want to be a part of, unless there is no other option.

IowaBison
02-27-2004, 08:27 PM
I'm with both Tony and Wyobison.

We should take the first invitation we get, AND BE THANKFUL FOR IT. I don't see NDSU playing in the MidCon in its current configuration for more than 5-10 years.

But think about it for heaven's sake, we could still be D2!

Bisonfan1234
02-27-2004, 08:31 PM
What about SDSU and UNC? Not only that, but we're going to have tough NC games with UMT and MTSU!

That will great things for pumping up our image. And then ,with a supposidly eas conference schedule, we should clean up!


the Mid-Con is not a conference of top schools in the respective states

You just don't get it do you? I'm sorry to have to break this to you..but ,in terms of population, ND is near the last!! Just because it's oneo f 50 states doesn't mean jack. Just because NDSU is a land-grant doesn't mean jack because they're a land-grant in a state which is near last in population.

It's like demanding that the 1A champions in Illinois should get to play the 8A champions simply because they're they're the best in something.

89rabbit
02-27-2004, 08:53 PM
The MId Con has an auto bid to the NCAA doesnt it? *If so, thats a huge step.


Yes they do, and that is all we really need to know. *I think the Mid-Con is not fat, she just isn't pretty. *Are the schools in it our academic equal? *No, but we don't have a lot of choices. *Right now it is either the BSC (and they seem VERY cool about us) or the Mid-Con, if someone can tell me about a realistic alternative please speak up.

If you really want to talk about academic equals, lets talk about the new D-II schools. *If UMKC is a second tier school what is Upper Iowa, Newberry, and the likes. *We tried to get the NCC to move up, but they wouldn't so I am with Tony if the Mid-Con is gracious and forward thinking enough to offer us an invite to join, I say lets go!

It can be argued that our two money sports (Basketball and Football) would have just as good a home, maybe better, in the Mid-Con/Great West then in the Big Sky. *Many Coaches have said the Great West is just as good and the Big Sky(football) and the Mid-Con has a better RPI then the BSC (basketball). *The Mid-Con also plays in the region of the country that we have traditionally recruited from and we would have a home for our baseball teams. These are two big plus for the Mid-Con/Great West.

Is the Mid-Con a dream come true? *No but we are not going to get an invite to the Big 10, Big XII, or Missouri Valley for that matter. *The Mid-Con is like a starter home, we need to buy in the price range we can afford and then we will go to Home Depot or Lowes and fix it up (the Mid-Con would be much stronger with SDSU, NDSU, and UNC). *Maybe someday after we build up some equity we will sell and move to a nicer neighborhood. *Right now we are living in an Apartment, so to me, the Mid-Con looks good (it has a backyard were the kids can play and we can have a dog*;) ;D ).

Go State!

WYOBISONMAN
02-27-2004, 08:57 PM
1234....Wyoming has much more of an image and academic standing *than any school in the Mid-Con. *Trust me (I know you never come out of Minnesota), there are not very darn many people in Wyoming. *In fact we are the least populated state and the U of Wyoming has only about 14,000 students.

Whether you are a rural state or not makes no difference. It is the dogs you run with...........

Texas_Jacks_Fan
02-27-2004, 09:01 PM
WYOBISONMAN nails it

IowaBison
02-27-2004, 09:15 PM
The answer to the question ..

does the fat girl put out/does the midcon have an automatic invite


is yes.

JBB
02-27-2004, 09:16 PM
Bison1234 is right on here and so is anybody else that says the Mid Con is our best deal. Its a great opportunity for them and us. In the future its very likely that more midwest schools might make the move. There is room for expansion this way. Its a win win situation. And when we do get that backyard for our dog to play in I hope it has 2 peters so it can be real happy. IM a supported of the Mid Con and we will not, Im sure turn our back or be coy with any invitation that might be forthcoming. Im grateful that they are managing the GWFC and hopeful that will open the door.

IowaBison
02-27-2004, 09:17 PM
I like the GWFC acronym.

Every time I see GFC I think Georgia Fried Chicken.

Bisonguy
02-27-2004, 09:21 PM
I like the GWFC acronym.

Every time I see GFC I think Georgia Fried Chicken.



I think that's the official one acronym. That is what is on the official website.

89rabbit
02-27-2004, 09:32 PM
Bison 1234,
Please dont use a Texas A&M win to justify the strength of a Mid Con team. They are winless in the Big 12 with 2 losses to Baylor. SDSU would beat the stuffin' out of A&M this year and the Bison might as well. The Mid Con probably will be our basketball home for a while, its better than no conference and I do think with some larger State universities it may elevate the conference. I still want the BSC.

UMKC (Mid-Con) also beat Kansas State (Big XII) this year. *That being said I am not trying to say that the Mid-Con is ready to go toe to toe with the Big XII but they can reach up and take a game or two. *I also took a look at conf. RPIs. *There are currently 11 Conf. (12 if you count the Indy schools) rated below the Mid-Con (one being the Big Sky) and there are three rated below the Independents (as a group) so things could be MUCH worse. *We could be hoping for a call from the Mid-Eastern.*:P *;)

http://kenpom.com/confrank.php?year=2004

Go State!

IowaBison
02-27-2004, 09:51 PM
I think from an SDSU point of view, the only important thing is that you could win the conference almost immediately if you field a good team, that would be great for both the DI schools from the Dakotas.

Especially when you upset #6 Iowa in the opening round.

Bisonfan1234
02-27-2004, 10:29 PM
1234....Wyoming has much more of an image and academic standing *than any school in the Mid-Con. *Trust me (I know you never come out of Minnesota), there are not very darn many people in Wyoming. *In fact we are the least populated state and the U of Wyoming has only about 14,000 students.

Whether you are a rural state or not makes no difference. *It is the dogs you run with...........

With that cocaine-addict logic the U of Wyo should be in the Pac 10. After all, it is the land-grant in that state.

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Not only that...but UWY is BIG compared to NDSU and SDSU in terms of athletic department.

The SU's and UNC are babies in terms of D1.

People think we automatically belong in the Big Sky because they also have schools that are named (insert state name here) State U! As if the name somehow implied something about the athletic department.

As far as SDSU is concerned: just worry about basketball. *With that in mind...anyone from SDSU that wants the Big Sky is retarded because they're weaker than the Mid Con in basketball. Not only that...but your goal should be MVC and nothing less. The only way that's happening is if you build yourself up as a mid-west powerhouse in the mid-con and then move up to the MVC.

WYOBISONMAN
02-27-2004, 11:06 PM
Again.....a Minnesota perspective on a North Dakota issue...... ::)

scsufan
02-28-2004, 12:56 AM
wyobison-
universities are ranked nationally in four academic tiers. ndsu and sdsu are fourth tier schools. (i was suprised)in the current ncc every school is third tier so that would rank the two school leaving the ncc at the bottom. incoming umd is a second tier school. the university of wyoming is also a third tier university along with umkc. umkc is not a community college. (usnews and world report)

now if the move is only based on sports, then sports should be the issue. if you are not a school like the university of minnesota or wisconsin the academic issue is very improtant. but onewould think for ndsu and sdsu sports and geographic location would be the main issue. and if going dI will help the academic reputation of ndsu then its a good move because there is only one way its national reputation can go.

i know, i know.... scsu have fun staying in division II. and we do.

IowaBison
02-28-2004, 01:32 AM
What in the hell is it with you people and US News and World Report?

Did they teach you the meaning of the word subjective at SCSU?

Bisonfan1234
02-28-2004, 02:19 AM
Wyo....ok fine....ALL of your opinions are a Wyoming perspective on a ND issue. HA!

As far as academics go... NDSU is in the 2nd teir (Carnegie Intensive http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/Classification/CIHE2000/PartIfiles/DRU-Int.htm) but is on the move to reclassify themselves to the 1st teir (Carnegie Extensive
http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/Classification/CIHE2000/PartIfiles/DRU-ext.htm).

tony
02-28-2004, 02:21 AM
US News & World Report's ranking are about as close to worthless as you can get, but if you do like their guide, remember that NDSU is classified as a "National University - Doctoral" and almost all DIIs are "Regional Universities - Masters".

somebison
02-28-2004, 02:38 AM
A big reason for the move academically is that most research institutions are DI. Here is a ranking based on research dollars not on a subjective opinion. (I don't think you will find many if any D2s ahead of NDSU


http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/nsf03316/pdf/tabb32.pdf

NDSU -128

look at some of the schools around withing 20 spots of NDSU (above and below)

Oklahoma St
Kansas St
New Hampshire
New Mexico St
Arkansas
Delaware
Vermont
West Virginia
Texas Tech
Montana St
Idaho
Maine
Nevada
Rhode Island
Wyoming

Looks like pretty good company, most statewide schools from small states are located around us. (and a few good privates like Notre Dame and Brown)

other NCC rankings

St. Cloud = 365
Mankato St =481
Omaha =292
South Dakota 291
North Dakota 200
South Dakota St 199

UMD,Augie = not listed


This is not to say that NDSU is a better school than the others just "different".

BisonInTexas
02-28-2004, 04:13 AM
wyobison-
universities are ranked nationally in four academic tiers. *ndsu and sdsu are fourth tier schools. *(i was suprised)in the current ncc every school is third tier so that would rank the two school leaving the ncc at the bottom. *incoming umd is a second tier school. *the university of wyoming is also a third tier university along with umkc. *umkc is not a community college. (usnews and world report)

now if the move is only based on sports, *then sports should be the issue. *if you are not a school like the university of minnesota or wisconsin the academic issue is very improtant. *but onewould think for ndsu and sdsu sports and geographic location would be the main issue. *and if going dI will help the academic reputation of ndsu then its a good move because there is only one way its national reputation can go.

i know, i know.... scsu have fun staying in division II. *and we do.

You've got to be kidding right? SCSU is ranked ahead of NDSU and SDSU academically? That's a good one.

Craig

BisonWarrior
02-28-2004, 05:07 AM
umkc is not a community college but it is a commuter school. *There is only one dorm where the 120 or so medical student live and then a few others. *They are especially know for the musical theatre program and their medical program.