UM $1M boo-boo

[Sac_State]

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/top/news01.txt

::)

[somebison]

That's interesting. Somewhere on Egriz they were talking about how great their accounting program was. How does a game in Maine cost 100K more than what they were expecting. Even if 100 people traveled with the team that is $1,000 more a person. Did they all fly first class and raid the mini-bars or what ???

[GoAgs]

With all the support they have for football and basketball it is suprising that Montana can't balance a $9 million dollar budget. When you break down season tickets, concessions, and the rest of the gate they must net over $500,000 per home football game. That's $3 million per season. When you average 4,000+ for basketball you are at least breaking even and UM doesn't have a ton of womens and misc sports to cover. Makes you realize the best and the brightest aren't going into the field of athletic administration.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I am shocked. That is unfortunate for the Griz. :-/

[Bisonfan1234]

It just shows you what happens when the government forces people to do things at the will of others.

Title IX is destoying athletic programs because no one gives a crap about women's sports (other than bball) other than the parents of players.

If athletic programs were allowed only to field teams that make money there would only be football, men's bball, and women's bball.

Also a few schools would have men's ice hockey and maybe some california and southern schools would have baseball.

[ralph]

...no one gives a crap about women's sports (other than bball) other than the parents of players...
Uh, this is collegiate (school) sports, not a popularity contest. The object is to give all students a chance to experience school sports as a part of their school years.

[Crashola]

Boy, they're gonna have a lot of fun with that in Bozeman!

[Bisonfan1234]

Uh, this is collegiate (school) sports, not a popularity contest. *The object is to give all students a chance to experience school sports as a part of their school years.

Popularity contest?!?!?!

The whole point is to make money, actually...

and by fielding teams in only sports that make money you're guaranteed to make money.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I agree with Ralph. Once again 1234 is off on some strange tangent. ::) Under 1234's world we would only have 3 sports....and I for one think women deserve as much opportunity to participate in NCAA athletics as men.

[BisonFan]

Money is what is wrong with college athletics 1234. It should never be about money. After all, college athletics is made up of amateur players (at least those programs not under scrutiny for their booster clubs funneling money to players!). Women deserve the same opportunities to play as men. The underlying problem with women's athletics is not the financial part, its people like you who have an attitude that it is not worth supporting. Some of the best games I have seen since I've become an NDSU fan were NDSU Women's basketball games. In fact, the women have been more to brag about in recent years than the men. But I support both teams equally. As for other women's sports, the Bison Women's Track team is truly the cream of the crop and the Volleyball team is a power too. These teams all deserve support. Title IX is not the problem. Its people like you who don't support women's athletics and then whine about how they don't make any money!

[Bisonfan1234]

Ugh....this socialism crap makes me wanna throw up!

Demand and supply. If no one demands to see a women's track meet then no one is going to pay to watch it.

Track requires money to field a team. Money has to come from somewhere! Perhaps the players should have to pay to be on the team if the team can't at least break even. Club teams are very popular at the high school level (in fact they could even be the future of high school sports), why not the college level?

I know you guys don't watch every sport there is for whatever reason you want (freedom is great, huh?). Why is it then that sports in which no one cares about should be given money that other programs earned? It's utter nonsense.

Sorry to rant . :( But i can't stand when people think you should force other sports programs to support the rest of the athletic department. Why stop there? Why not have them support the music department?! Nonsense.

[D]

Ugh....this socialism crap makes me wanna throw up!

Demand and supply. If no one demands to see a women's track meet then no one is going to pay to watch it.

Track requires money to field a team. Money has to come from somewhere! Perhaps the players should have to pay to be on the team if the team can't at least break even. Club teams are very popular at the high school level (in fact they could even be the future of high school sports), why not the college level?

I know you guys don't watch every sport there is for whatever reason you want (freedom is great, huh?). Why is it then that sports in which no one cares about should be given money that other programs earned? It's utter nonsense.

Sorry to rant . :( But i can't stand when people think you should force other sports programs to support the rest of the athletic department. Why stop there? Why not have them support the music department?! Nonsense.

Why do revenue sports fund nonrevenue sports? It is the system that is in place, and college sports remain perhaps the most watched, most successful, and fan-friendly sports in all of America, pro or amateur. The concept of Title IX is not the problem, the problem is what has become of Title IX. That is the cutting of men's programs in order to comply with Title IX and measures that have downgraded men's programs because of Title IX (see the U of M's wrestling coach's laxsuit he just filed for against the university). Of course everyone deserves a fair chance to compete in their sport, revenue or not, a fan-base or not. Even though a sport is non-revenue, it still can bring a school incredible amounts of dough. Nomar Garciaparra has given Georgia Tech millions upon millions. Darin Erstad has produced millions for Nebraska. Jackie Joiner-Kersey and her family are some of the biggest gift givers to UCLA. There are thousands of other examples. And most of the time, the sports you think make money run up much larger deficits than sports with 1/4 the budget. Your perception and reality are again miles apart.

[Bisonfan1234]

Fine...

all i'm saying is that college shouldn't be forced to do anything.

So they could drop all non-profitable sports and focus on the profitable sports (most schools this is fball and bball...but some schools also make money in ice hockey, baseball, wrestling, etc).

Also...if everyone deserves a chance to play their sport at the next level...then NDSU would need to add alot of sports. So don't try and use that BS. There are a lot of sports out there but just a few that people care about.

[SDbison]

Bison1234 you can't argue with the liberals. Every minority cause is justified in their eyes. Much as Title IX helped to get womens sports going it is a good example of goverment intrusion going to far. Even when there is little interest by student athletes or fans of a particular sport a university is forced to have complimentary womens programs at the expense of the more popular and financially successful men's programs. What is next liberals......equal sports opportunities in a separate league for gays or transgenders? Where does it end?

[Bisonguy]

BisonFan,

Don't forget the currently #1 ranked DII softball team in the nation. ;D ;D They're pretty good, too.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Someone needs to makesure 1234 gets a Team Maker application.......he is so noisy he needs to pony up some cash like the rest of us....

[tony]

If it's all about the money, rid the universities of athletics completely and start up junior leagues instead. BisonFan1234 can support the Fargo Tax Protesters and I'll support NDSU and everybody will be happy :)

[Bisonguy]

Why stop with athletics? NDSU should look at what departments are actually bringing in money. They should get rid of the rest that are sucking up the research funds the money generating departments are bringing in. I wonder if the English department brings in any $$$$? ::)

[SDbison]

Even though nobody called me on it, I did get a little political in my previous post. I apologize for my ranting. It was late and some recent injuries were keeping me awake. Did I actually defend bison1234? Back to the topic......The real intent of my post was to make a statement on how Title IX was a bit too aggressive and does not allow for flexibility or weighing of "major" sports as compared to "minor" or up and coming sports. For instance, women's basketball, volleyball, softball, and track are well rooted sports. While soccer, tennis, golf, gymnastics, swimming and diving are not big sports for women or men. For men, football, basketball, wrestling and baseball are well established. A university should have the option of offering the less popular sports with fewer scholarships and/or only local conference/regional competition (i.e. no tournaments in Florida or National playoffs) yet keeping a balance between mens ans womens sports. Why do all sports have to be treated exactly the same? Do we live in a communist country? Are we all paid the same at work? If the interest is limited, then the budget should be limited. I think Title IX had good intentions, but it is so inflexible. Somehow fledgling sports should be prorated so as to not pull down the popular sports (mens or womens). Just look how long it took to build the more popular mens programs to their current day levels. Playoffs, tournaments and cross country travel only came about in the last 50 years due to popularity of a sport. Womens basketball has definately gone through its own development of popularity. At the same time creating big budgets for womens golf or mens swimming before public demand is there seems ridiculous.

[Bisonfan1234]

Why stop with athletics? NDSU should look at what departments are actually bringing in money. They should get rid of the rest that are sucking up the research funds the money generating departments are bringing in. I wonder if the English department brings in any $$$$? *::)

No need to take it that far.

All i'm suggesting that university shouldn't be forced to do anything by the government.

So they could do as you're suggesting and just have high research dollar degrees. If they wanted.

[ralph]

...All i'm suggesting that university shouldn't be forced to do anything by the government...
No one forces a school to be part of the NCAA.

[IowaBison]

I think that would be impossible 1234, since the University in question is a GOVERNMENT ENTITY!

[WYOBISONMAN]

Awhile back during the discussion of the Old Fieldhouse....which 1234 though could be remodeled in some strange way....we thought 1234 may have never actually attended NDSU. After this latest rant I am not sure he ever went to school anywhere.... :P

[Bisonfan1234]

No one forces a school to be part of the NCAA.

Exactly! So too should title ix be! If you want to do it...fine. If not...fine.


I think that would be impossible 1234, since the University in question is a GOVERNMENT ENTITY!

Fine...privatize the althetic department and have a simple affiliation with the school.

[BisonFan]

Maybe you should stick with being a fan of professional sports 1234 since you don't seem to like the concept of amateur college athletics!

[Bisonfan1234]

When did i say that?

You people like to assume things.


It's not the players that are getting payed here...not directly at least.

They get money for school to play sports. Get it?

[ralph]

Exactly! So too should title ix be! If you want to do it...fine. If not...fine.
No one forces a school to receive state or federal money.

[Bisonfan1234]

Like i said before.... privatize the athletic department and simply make an affiliation with the university.

From the athletic department end it's nothing more than trying to make a profit while giving athletes the oppertunity to compete at the D1 level and giving them school money.

From the student end it's nothing more than working a job! You go to work and get paid in the form of scholorship money.

Lastly, from the university end, it's like having an affiliation with a company based on campus. This is already happening (Pheonix, Alien Technologies). The only thing the university gives up is land to put facilities on and they let the teams use their name.

It's win, win, win!

This isn't an abstract concept either. NDSU has (quite successful) club teams that use NDSU facilities, use the NDSU name, but otherwise have nothing to do with the school. This is exactly the way it should be. Also, this way, if the sport doesn't make money, then the players just pay to play (shows true comittment).

[WYOBISONMAN]

1234.....you whole proposal borders on the insane. I doubt that you will find any takers that are true fans of college athletics. Why don't you give up such rants and spare us the hassle of reading such silly stuff.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I have just been reading on Siouxsports.com and came across another gem by 1234. *Get a load of this one. *Here 1234 claims no one west of the Red River Valley cares about NDSU. *What a bunch of garbage. *NDSU being the land grant school and the home of Extension has *a huge and important impact in all rural areas of the state. *It also is the closest large university to Bismarck. *Clearly 1234 knows little about NDSU and how North Dakotans feel about thier land grant university.

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2060&st=0

About 3/4 down page 1 our Bisonfan1234 lets out with this remark:

"You're definately right that most people west of the RR valley don't care or even have anything to do with NDSU. "

1234 has no credibility with me.

[IowaBison]

Took you awhile to get on the bus, WyoBison.

[Bisonfan1234]

"True" fans of college athletics should care if their football team is bordering on breaking even because the softball team needs new bats.

::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

[IowaBison]

Why should they care, hardly any team breaks even.

[Bisonfan1234]

Yeah...i mean if there is no football team because they're broke..meh..who cares.

[D]

Yeah...i mean if there is no football team because they're broke..meh..who cares.

Purchase a shovel, it's starting to pile up pretty high.

[Bisonfan1234]

All i'm suggesting is that the athletic department should make money. Wow...what an abstract concept.

[ralph]

All i'm suggesting is that the athletic department should make money. Wow...what an abstract concept.
Frankly, at D-I it is. Athletics in college are part of student services so to speak. They exist as a benefit to students. I think it is the standard thought that the department is not required to make money, just not lose too much.

[IowaBison]

with regular support with well heeled alumni and boosters who cares if you break even at the turnstile?

[Bisonfan1234]

That's fine...i'm just thinking that college sports will go more along these lines in the future as the BCS schools split away and take football and bball with them.