One More time

[somebison]

Pros and Cons of Mid-Con vs Big Sky

Big Sky

Pros
1. All sports in one conference
2. Better "name recognition" of schools
3. Academic Standards of schools
4. Fan support (attendance) of schools

Cons
1. No Baseball/Softball

Mid-Con
Pros

1. Covers traditional recruiting area (in general NDSU recruits East of the RRV... sorry WYOBM :))
2. Access to Bigger Markets (KC, Chicago etc... however this could be a wash as many of these teams receive little "pub" in their respective cities -see Sac St and Port St)
3.Baseball/Softball
4. *Allows us to play in GWC (i don't know about the rest of you... but the only teams BSC FB teams I would be "excited" to play are Mont and Montana St which we could still play NC as we can schedule 5 or 6 NC games a year) would allows us to play SDSU, SUU and possibly UNC in both FB and other sports

5. Basketball may be slightly better


Cons

1. Academics
2. FB and other sports in different confs
3. Lack of Fan support
4. Name recognition (IUPUI or is it IUPFW ?)

please feel free to add to the list

[89rabbit]

A big Con for the Big Sky is it looks like they don't want us. At the end of the day that is the "Mother of all Cons". Bring on the Mid-Con!

Go State!

[Bisonguy]

Pros for Mid-con:

1)Cheaper travel
2)More NDSU alumni in Chicago and KC than Missoula, Bozeman, Sacramento, etc.
3)They didn't have a secret unanimous vote that they didn't want to expand into the Dakotas.

Looking at men's BB attendance since 1997, the Big Sky and Mid-Con are fairly close. Last year the Big Sky averaged about 700 more, and in 1997 about 1,000. In most years inbetween, the difference was only a couple hundred.

[Bison_Kent]

I know that I have been pro-Big Sky as well but actually the Mid Con would be pretty good for me. I am about 2 1/2 hours from KC and about 2 1/2 from Tulsa (homes of Missouri-KC and Oral Roberts). There are two road games I could go to to see the Bison play basketball. I know that baseball is big at Oral Roberts, as well. Missouri-KC does not have baseball.

Maybe Northern Colorado, NDSU and SDSU could join and be part of the Western Division with Southern Utah. There are four schools to be rivals right now in all sports. I would guess Oral Roberts and Missouri-KC would be the other Western Division Teams.

With the Mid-Con, NDSU and SDSU will be right at the top of the conference as far as facilities go. If the Big Sky says no as it seems they are right now, the Mid Con might be a good second choice at ;east to begin the DI journey.

I will definitely would pick the Mid-Con over the Sun Belt or any other conference mentioned. I think we can all agree that the NDSU is not a southern university.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Like I said in another post, if only the Mid-Con will take us, then that is what we have to do. *The BSC winds up being the biggest looser in the deal because I think thier membership is not real stable and they are loosing the chance at some solid schools. *But, most of the schools in the Mid-Con do not excite me, nor are they institutions I would ever have attended or consider sending my kids to attend. *(Where as the BSC has better academics).

---The biggest drawback to the Mid-Con is that 1234 is the damn commish.... :o

[Bisonfan1234]

The biggest thing for me is to have NDSU coming to play to the east where all the people (including the alumni) are. It will also help recruiting to have a presence there.

Face it guys..NDSU grads go to Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc. They don't go out to Dickinson.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Notwithstanding the border state of MN, let's just take a look at where the NDSU alumni are...

1234 mentions both Chicago and Milwalkee (remember Milwalkee is not in a Mid-Con state).

2 Mid-Con States with the most Alum:

Alumni in Illinois * 987
Alumni in Wisconsin *1235 (Not Really a Mid Con State, but I feel sorry for 1234 making such a stupid statement and I will include it)
Alumni in Missourri * * * 427
Total * * *Mid-Con * * * * * * * 2,649

3 Big Sky States with the most Alum:

Alumni in Washington * 1279
Alumni in Arizona * * * * * 1322
Alumni in Calif. * * * * * * * 2212

Total Big Sky * * * * * * * * 4,813

That is not to mention that there are also large numbers of alumni in Montana, Colorado and Oregon. *Maybe you should check out this map and really see where the aluni are before you make such an ignorant statement. *http://www.ndsualumni.com/maps/national/webmap.htm
From the map clearly our alumni are west when moving out of the core of North Dakota and Minnesota. *Outside of the ND/MN core the highest county concentration of alumni is in Maricopa County, Arizona. *Since 1234 has never ventured outside of MN......that is the Phoenix area (oh my, a Big Sky State).
Face it, you really know very little about NDSU. *I would suggest better research next time. *I find ignorance like this so pathetic.

[IowaBison]

I thought the end of the world was just west of Casselton? That's what Bison1234 has been telling me.

What the hell is Washington? DC? Never heard of it.

[Bisonguy]

WYOBISONMAN,

In defense of 1234, Milwaukee is a factor in the Chicago metro. It's less than 100 miles away, which is actually about 50 miles closer than Phoenix, AZ is to Flagstaff. Plus, it would take a Buick Park Avenue doing 40 mph on the interstate nearly 4 hours to get from Phoenix to Flagstaff, and Phoenix isn't much of a factor ;D.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Hell, that's why I was damn charitable and gave our resident goof ball credit for Wisconsin. ;)

My major point is this, At this point in time the Mid-Con may be the only move NDSU can make, but we need to all recognize that NDSU needs a better conference home of peer institutions.

[IowaBison]

Amen to that WyoBison.

[Bisonguy]

Hell, that's why I was damn charitable and gave our resident goof ball credit for Wisconsin. ;)

My major point is this, At this point in time the Mid-Con may be the only move NDSU can make, but we need to all recognize that NDSU needs a better conference home of peer institutions.

I completely agree. I just want to see all the other sports be able to fill out a schedule without going coast to coast every weekend.

I have heard rumblings that the second wave of conference shuffles are coming in April. It might make travel partners from the Dakotas more appealling if a team or two moves out of some mid-major conference.

[Bisonfan1234]

Nice try wyo... but you oversimplified the data to try and prove your point.

Here is what the data REALLY says:

We'll go by each conference:

Big sky:

Montana (Missoula County) 48
Montana St (Gallatin County) 84
Idaho St (Bannock County) 12
East Washington (Spokane County) 98
Portland St (Multnomah County) 121
Sac St (Sacramento County) 85
North AZ (Coconino County) 23
Weber St ( Weber County) 19

Total = 470

Mid Con
SDSU (Brookings County) 69
UNC (Weld County) 81
Chicago State (Cook County) 226
IUPUI (Marion County) 71
UMKC (Jackson County) 57
... please note that with just these schools the total NDSU alumni is 504!!!

Also note that there are over 100 more NDSU alumni that live in Kansas City, KS!! Those count toward UMKC. And there are 6 more schools in the Mid Con after that !!!!!!!!!


Winner: Mid- Con in a land slide!!

Research...pfft....WYO try to understand the data you're given before you tout your research next time!

[WYOBISONMAN]

UNC in the Mid-Con? SDSU in the Mid-Con? What is your logic? When did they join up with the Mid-Con? OK....I am now convinced that you must be someone who may have attended NDSU for a quarter or two, but flunked out. You really don't have the right stuff to survivie for four years in college. Obviously you have some research difficulties. Your ingnorance is at a positively astounding level.

[JBB]

If you guys are proving anything the Mid Con and BSC are a wash based on the alumni criteria.

Mid Con Pro: Auto bid to the NCAA
BSC auto bid: ?

MId Con: All cities are closer to Fargo than most BSC towns

Mid Con: More in our recruiting area for athletes and sutdents than the BSC.

Many Mid Con cities, Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis are by interstate.

I like the Mid Con. Its better than the BSC. We already travel to Ca for Football. We can play anybody we want to in the BSC for non conference games. Mostly that means the Montana Schools.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I am not positive, but I am pretty sure the BSC has an autobid to the NCAA as well. Again, it is not surprising that people from MN have a move favorable view of the Mid-Con, but I do think that most North Dakotans will prefer the BSC. This point may well be moot until we see some favorable signs from the BSC. NDSU needs to seek the best available conference option at the time....and it may well be the Mid-Con right now.

[JACKGUY]

This Minnesotan prefers the Big Sky.

[D]

The Big Sky does have an automatic NCAA bid.

[JBB]

Mid Con/GWFC give us twice the exosure as a single conference affiliation. I forgot that plus. I actuall prefer the Mid Con over the BSC. When was the last time you saw the BSC on ESPN? Ive seen at least 2 Mid Con games this year.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Hell, I love a good debate... ;)

[Bison_Kent]

To think about both conferences (Big Sky and Mid Con), there are positives and negatives for both conferences like SomeBison pointed out. See below:

Pros and Cons of Mid-Con vs Big Sky

Big Sky

Pros
1. All sports in one conference
2. Better "name recognition" of schools
3. Academic Standards of schools
4. Fan support (attendance) of schools

Cons
1. No Baseball/Softball

Mid-Con
Pros

1. Covers traditional recruiting area (in general NDSU recruits East of the RRV... sorry WYOBM )
2. Access to Bigger Markets (KC, Chicago etc... however this could be a wash as many of these teams receive little "pub" in their respective cities -see Sac St and Port St)
3.Baseball/Softball
4. Allows us to play in GWC (i don't know about the rest of you... but the only teams BSC FB teams I would be "excited" to play are Mont and Montana St which we could still play NC as we can schedule 5 or 6 NC games a year) would allows us to play SDSU, SUU and possibly UNC in both FB and other sports

5. Basketball may be slightly better

Cons

1. Academics
2. FB and other sports in different confs
3. Lack of Fan support
4. Name recognition (IUPUI or is it IUPFW ?)

If we base on fan recognition, the Big Sky would win easily. I believe your average fan will see Montana or Idaho State on the schedule and be a lot more excited then IUPUI or Oral Roberts.

But you have the other side that looks at travel and possible recruiting areas and with this the Mid Con probably wins out. I am sure more capable DI players will come out of Chicago, Detroit, and Kansas City then Missoula, Bozeman, or Pocatello.

Then again, if you base things on school size and accedemic standards, the Big Sky wins easily as many of these schools are similar in size and accedemic standards as NDSU and SDSU. Many Mid Con schools are small, private schools that have very little in common with NDSU and SDSU.

So based on this info, the Big Sky would win in my opinion. But it is looking like they don't want the two Dakota schools so the we may have to take the next best option in the Mid Con.

[89rabbit]

Put me down for the Mid-Con (unless I see a change in the TONE out west)!

[BisonMav]

The number one sport at NDSU (football) has a conference, now it's time to take care of the rest. Oral Roberts and Valpo are two schools with Basketball tradition that I would like to see over anyone in the Big Sky. Top to bottom, maybe the Big Sky has an advantage. It would be great to take care of Baseball/Softball too. The Big Sky would have been great too, but the Mid Con looks like the best direction right now. I would like the other option, forming a new conference, except the probationary period would be longer, with no automatic bid for years.

[Bisonfan1234]

Get real Wyo...if NDSU joins the Mid Con then UNC and SDSU are sure to follow.

But my research is still valid without them! Add 150 NDSU alumni in Kansas City, KS to make up for the loss of Brookings and Greeley.

You're just pissed that you didn't realize you needed to look at the county each school is in versus just the state.

[tony]

I sure wish NDSU had more options.

For football, sure, I'd like to see any Big Sky team before about any DI-AA team.

In BB, it's different. Got to get some BB fans on here to say what they think but BB fans (I think) just want to see some good basketball and the BSC isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse, any more than the Mid Con if full of creampuffs. If I'm wrong about that Mid Con and NDSU gets in, that'd be fine with me because putting together some winning seasons in DI basketball right away has to be NDSU's job #1 after a conference berth is secured.

In all the other sports, who cares what conference NDSU gets into? Track and XC comprise 6 sports and conferences mean very little when it comes to scheduling for them. Volleyball? NDSU fans who root for the VB team will come out regardless of who they play. Baseball and softball? BSC doesn't even have them. Tennis? We don't have teams now and the MidCon might save us the expense of adding teams.

Despite my constant hopeful attitude, I'm a huge worrier. I wish NDSU had more conference options - although one will do as long as we get an invitation.

[D]

I really don't think the Mid Con are the basketball creampuffs people are making them out to be though. If I'm wrong about that, that'd be great because I'd like to see NDSU put together some winning seasons in DI basketball right away.



Tony,
I am a total college basketball dork. *It is literally my life from November to April. *The bottom of the Mid-Con is on par with the bottom of D1 hoops. *Western Illinois is brutal every year. *Chicago State is in very much the same boat, IMO one of the 2 worst prgrams in D1 with Army, but are having a successful year (for them) this year with a "good" RPI at around 225 the last time I checked. *Centenary has been brutal the past 10 years, and has steped into the Mid-Con this year and is right in the thick of the race, that tells you something. *Southern Utah hasn't had an RPI above 255 in the past 4 years. *UMKC has been inconsistent at best. *Oakland thought they had turned the corner, but has taken a big dump this year. *IUPUI has been a shock to the world with the success they have had in D1, and are on track for a 20 win season this year. *

The silver lining in the conference is Valpo. *They are still a year away, but in the next 2-3 years WILL be back in the Big Dance and I believe in the Sweet 16. *Their recruiting class they brought in that are FR now included 3 consensus top 100 players nationally, and 2 top 50 players in the nation, a class that would've been considered great for a BCS conference school and is one of the best mid-major classes ever. *They will bring more noteriety to the Mid-Con in the future in hoops, so from a marquee/noteriety standpoint in basketball the Mid-Con has 1 such "cinderella" team in Valpo, something that I cannot see the Big Sky having. *The Mid-Con is a lot more bottom heavy then the Big Sky is though.

[tony]

Thanks D.

[WYOBISONMAN]

D., that is a very interesting assesment as I am no BB wiz myself...

[Bisonfan1234]

Mid Con

Valparaiso 10 5 14 12
IUPUI 10 6 19 10
Oral Roberts 10 6 17 10
Centenary 10 6 16 11
Chicago St 9 6 11 18
UMKC 9 7 14 13
Oakland 6 10 13 16
Southern Utah 6 10 10 17
Western Illinois 1 15 3 25


Big Sky

Eastern Wash. 11 3 15 12
Northern Arizona 7 7 14 13
Weber State 7 7 14 13
Sacramento State 7 7 13 14
Idaho State 7 7 10 18
Montana State 6 8 14 13
Montana 6 8 10 17
Portland State 5 9 11 16


There are the standings if anyone is curious.

[IowaBison]

I think I like the Mid Con it would be good for morale to be competitive right of the bat in the new conference.

[89rabbit]

At the end of the day, the Big Sky is not an option right now. That being said here is a link to the College Baskeball RPI

http://kenpom.com/confrank.php?year=2004

You can go back to 2001 on this site, for the Conf. and/or school.

Go State!

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think that everyone needs to remember that the conference situation and conference affilliations are very fluid right now. If the BSC were to suffer a defection or two in the next 12 months you may very well see some official moves towards expansion....I think while the Mid-Con appears to be the only option right now, we need to keep an open mind about the future. It is likely that there is a lot of unrest ahead for all conferences.

[GiantBison12]

Was in Denver skiing and read this article in last Sundays edition of the Rocky Mountain news, it breaks down strength of conference for all DI conferences for this years tounament. Thought it may create more debate.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/college/article/0,1299,DRMN_40_2693627,00.html