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Junior
06-16-2004, 10:47 PM
I talked to Bison_Kent a while ago. Here is what he had to say.

"The Horizon League is not looking at NDSU or SDSU for its expansion efforts. Earlier, the Missouri Valley Conference said no. This leaves the Big Sky and the Mid Con as the two options.

Idaho was accepted into the WAC. The speculation about that school moving back to the Big Sky now won't happen as the "Vandals" are now in a DI-A conference with about the same geographical make-up as the Big Sky and will have their rival school, Boise State, in the same league."

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/state/8937633.htm

WYOBISONMAN
06-16-2004, 10:53 PM
In reading that article it seems that SDSU could potentially be on shakey ground with the move to DI-AA.

89rabbit
06-16-2004, 11:12 PM
That is because the Grand Forks paper "forgot" some of the import parts of the Article that Chris Solari wrote and then put on the AP wire. *No need to worry, the ground that SDSU stands on is as solid as Mt. Rushmore.

http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Wednesdayarticle1.shtm

Deadline moot point for SDSU
Chris Solari
Argus Leader

published: 6/16/2004

Regents will assess the league search by Sept. 1

The South Dakota Board of Regents is considering a date given to South Dakota State University officials for finding a Division I conference as a time frame instead of a deadline.

Robert "Tad" Perry, executive director of the board, said the Sept. 1 date given to SDSU was to gauge the progress in searching for a new league.

"What we've tried to do is let (SDSU) know we want to have some direction from campus by the time we started this next (school) year," Perry said Tuesday.

"They're in limbo as these conferences have their conversations. We have to let the conferences make their decisions and be patient." *. *. *.

The talk of the deadline began in February when Sen. Clarence Kooistra of Garretson questioned then-board appointee Carol Pagones. Kooistra, a Republican and a staunch opponent of his alma mater's move to Division I, said SDSU had to have conference affiliation by Sept. 1 as mandated by the regents.

Perry refuted that Tuesday.

"It's not something that's formal," Perry said. "Clarence interpreted that as a Sept. 1 deadline. It was not a formal action of the board, so you won't find it in the board's minutes."

Kooistra disagreed. Acknowledging there was a "gray area" as to whether the date applied solely to the football program or all of the Jackrabbits' sports, he still feels SDSU must have a league in order to make the move.

"My understanding was that if (SDSU is) not in a conference on Sept. 1, that the Board of Regents would pull out the rug from underneath South Dakota State," he said. "For them to say it's not a deadline, that's wrong."

Upon approving SDSU's decision to leave Division II by a 6-2 vote in December 2002, the regents adopted a policy for state schools wanting to move to Division I. It placed restrictions on implementation of scholarships, funding and budgets for the Brookings institution and others seeking to move up a division.

Board President Harvey Jewett said at the time that, "In effect, adopting this policy leaves the ultimate decision of whether to move to Division I-AA in SDSU's hands, as long as the institution complies with all aspects of the Board policy and an appropriate athletic conference can be found."

SDSU was required to let the North Central Conference know by Sept. 1, 2003 whether it would remain in the Division II league. School officials filed the paperwork with the NCC on Aug. 15, 2003.

Only football in the NCAA has the subclassification of I-AA. The rest of the SDSU's athletic programs will compete in Division I. The Jackrabbits became charter members of the Great West Football Conference, a new I-AA league. The university is still seeking a home for its 19 other sports. *. *. *.

"We have ongoing conversations with President (Peggy) Miller and the people at SDSU to get updates to keep the board abreast on where they are at (in finding a league)," Perry said. "We remain comfortable with the progress they're making." *



Nice hatchet piece by the GF paper. *Everyone knew it was going to come down to the Mid-Con and Big Sky and sooo it has. *Wow, what a surprise! *:o Keep in mind the the SD Board of Regents is more pro-SDSU now then it was in '02 and the Governor is NOW an SDSU Alum. I understand that he is privately for the move although he has not made a public statement either way. Just a few facts that the folks in Grand Forks forgot to tell you about.

Go State! ;D*

WYOBISONMAN
06-16-2004, 11:13 PM
Leave it to the GF rag!!

Junior
06-16-2004, 11:24 PM
I should have guessed as much. *Thanks for clearing that up. *

Bison_Kent
06-16-2004, 11:49 PM
I wonder if NDSU and SDSU would jump at a Mid Con offer if one came in July. I would guess they might wait a month to see what the Big Sky says.

Bisonfan1234
06-17-2004, 12:23 AM
We can't join the Big Sky without joining for football, so the Big Sky is out as well.

They'll definately jump at the chance for a Mid Con invite.

JBB
06-17-2004, 12:23 AM
Why not wait? *The conferences understand timing. *They excercise their right to it at every turn. *This situation could stay as is for several years.

Im not sure Ive ever heard of the grand forks herald. Are they a newspaper with respectable circulation?

Bison_Kent
06-17-2004, 01:39 AM
The Big Sky is not out because of football. I believe in talking with the various Great West ADs, the Great West has a 1 year out clause for finding an all-sports conference.

Bisonfan1234
06-17-2004, 03:08 AM
How pathetic would we be to leave the Great West for the Big Sky??

LOL! It's a joke to even think about it.

Mid Con is better at bball than the Big Sky and the Great West is better at football than the Big Sky.

roadwarrior
06-17-2004, 04:31 AM
1234, I dont know where you have been, but NDSU would jump at the chance to join the Big Sky. *Just as we would jump at the chance to join the Mid Con for all other sports other than football.

whatever_
06-17-2004, 09:03 AM
I agree, why not get in the B-sky?? I know there may be some animosity torwards that conference but that would be the best for NDSU... Just my opinion.

TheBisonator
06-17-2004, 09:56 AM
How pathetic would we be to leave the Great West for the Big Sky??

LOL! It's a joke to even think about it.

Mid Con is better at bball than the Big Sky and the Great West is better at football than the Big Sky.



Oh man, you crack me up, 1234!!! LOL!!!

The In-Continent conference is better than the Big Sky??? PUH-LEEEEAZE...

89rabbit
06-17-2004, 10:16 AM
Oh man, you crack me up, 1234!!! LOL!!!

The In-Continent conference is better than the Big Sky??? PUH-LEEEEAZE...

He is right in terms of RPI. Mid-Con is ranked as the 20th best Conf. in 2004, while the Big Sky came in at 22nd. Not a ton of difference, but the Mid-Con is better for Men's Basketball.

http://kenpom.com/confrank.php?year=2004

Go State!

Junior
06-17-2004, 02:09 PM
More Info

Idaho's move raises NDSU's hope for Big Sky
By Jeff Kolpack, The Forum
Published Thursday, June 17, 2004

With just eight members and the University of Idaho out of the picture, North Dakota State athletic director Gene Taylor said Wednesday he's interested to see if the Big Sky Conference will once again consider NDSU.

Idaho, a former Big Sky member, was said to be a candidate to move back to its old league.

"They kept dangling that out there," Taylor said.

But the Western Athletic Conference announced two weeks ago that Idaho accepted an invitation for membership. Idaho, which left the Big Sky in 1996, was a member of the Sun Belt Conference for football and the Big West Conference for all other sports.

The WAC and Sun Belt play Division I-A football while the Big Sky plays at the I-AA level.

The Big Sky Council of Presidents will meet in early August. NDSU and South Dakota State inquired into membership last year, but the issue never got past the discussion stages.

"It will be interesting to see what the Big Sky's next move is," Taylor said. "I'm not saying we're going to pick up the phone and call them. But the reports said they were waiting to see what happened with Idaho. That told me they were interested in expanding."

Taylor, who just returned from the annual National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics Convention, said he was told the Mid-Continent talked about expansion recently, but nothing became of it.

"It's still moving at a snail's pace," Taylor said.

Mid-Continent officials will meet July 1 at an undisclosed location, according to the Sioux Falls Argus Leader newspaper.

The Big Sky and Mid-Con meetings come after Horizon League commissioner Jonathan LeCrone said SDSU and NDSU are not good fits for its league.

"It would surprise me if our membership strategy went beyond our current geographic configuration," LeCrone told the Argus Leader.

That did not surprise Taylor, who talked with Horizon League administrators around the time NDSU announced its Division I intentions in 2002.

"They said they were comfortable with nine," Taylor said.

NDSU and SDSU are part of the newly-formed Great West Football Conference that will begin play this fall. Both schools are searching for a league for its other sports.

Idaho's status as a I-A football program became an issue when the NCAA passed legislation that requires a minimum home football attendance requirement above Idaho's stadium capacity of 16,000.

There has since been a movement to counter that proposal. There has also been a movement among Division I leagues to add teams, something NDSU hopes has a trickle-down effect.

Leagues that fall below seven teams risk losing revenue distribution from the NCAA.

Readers can reach Forum reporter Jeff Kolpack at (701) 241-5546

WYOBISONMAN
06-17-2004, 02:25 PM
This shows that NDSU officials are wisely looking to the Big Sky and that there is still a good shot at the Sky out there. This makes WYOBIOSNMAN happy!!

SDSUFAN
06-17-2004, 02:34 PM
No doubt about the Argus Article and what 89rabbit posted relating to SDSU. We still have people who are and will fight this move to the very end. Clarence Kooistra, who has a graduate degree at SDSU for secondary education has no loyality to SDSU, but often these guys that have advanced degrees from SDSU talk out of both sides of the mouth. Most of the time its negativity towards SDSU. Often these guys got their degrees at SDSU, only because they are not offered at USD.

I would think after hearing Scott Nagy and AJ Johnston monday at the SDSU Alumni Association golf outing in my place of birth, Volga, South Dakota and almost a suburb of Brookings, that both the men and women BB programs will do well. These two coaches are excited about next year. The men get to go to the same facility that Hickory High won the Indiana basketball tournament in the movie Hoosiers namely Butler University.

I would have like to have heard from Coach Stig. but they had a football camp going on and none could attend. I am worried about our football program, and thats why we need to see the Bison in Brookings. In football NDSU has been our measuring stick for a long time.

One little piece of info that I picked up was that there are a number of conversations going on at the AD conventions. This came from someone who had spent the weekend in Dallas and is on staff at SDSU so dont want to give his name. He said very little, but the face to face conversations that NDSU and SDSU have had during this convention is moving the ball forward so not sure what to make of it. So I guess we all need to stay tuned and hope for the best.

JACKGUY
06-17-2004, 03:33 PM
IMHO, I think there is no question we take a Big Sky bid over a Mid-Cont offer. We have more in common from an institutional level with Idaho State,Montana and Montana State than any of the schools in Mid-Cont. I'm not a fan of the large commuter city center type schools that are prevelent in the many of these conferences that are available to us. The Big Sky certainly has those types of institutions as well, in Portland and Sacramento, but I still like the makeup of the conference from top to bottom. My hope would be that Northern Colorado would be added with SDSU and NDSU. I believe our schools and communities will get behind the Big Sky quicker than the Mid-Cont.

Bisonfan1234
06-17-2004, 08:22 PM
The thing is, I also thinkg SDSU and NDSU would abandon a brillient future with the Great West/Mid Con simply because they originally had their eyes on the Big Sky.

It's like when you were a kid and you wanted the shiny red bike. But then your dad brings you home an even better bike. However you pout and pout because you didn't get the one you originally wanted even though the one you're getting is better.

All of the Big Sky talk is nothing but pouting.

Here are the facts:

UNC won't join the Big Sky. They want a conference for their baseball team plain and simple. They've already come out publically against the Big Sky.

The Mid Con is better than the Big Sky in Bball.

I won't say that the Great West being better than the Big Sky in football is a fact, but guys....we match up AWEFULLY good with them. I would put our 6 teams against their top 6 and wager that we win.

UNC, SDSU, and NDSU could form a very nice all-sport rivalry that would draw big IMO if we were all in both the GW and MC.

And hell, on top of all that, we could STILL play Montana, Montana State, and who ever else we wanted from the Big Sky in non-conference.


So please....SOMEONE explain how the is Big Sky cry-baby talk is still around. I just don't get it.

WYOBISONMAN
06-17-2004, 08:28 PM
Geez 1234.....maybe you need to take a vacation again....

Bisonfan1234
06-17-2004, 08:30 PM
In other words...you have nothing to say that could possibly make the Big Sky seem worthy.

WYOBISONMAN
06-17-2004, 08:47 PM
No.....your posts aren't worth a response...

Junior
06-17-2004, 08:48 PM
The bottom line is know one knows. Would a year or two as an independent be that bad of a thing?

Bisonfan1234
06-17-2004, 09:24 PM
I just thought of another reason to ditch the Big Sky.

They didn't even want us!! They wanted to get Idaho back and maybe add San Jose St (based on the attendence rules).

They didn't want us.

If they do decide to take us it will be a "oh fine..if they're our only choice then I guess we'll have to take them".

Screw them. They lost their chance to have us and they don't get a second one.

JBB
06-17-2004, 11:06 PM
Im not sure we are in any position to be indignant. *We have our hat in our hand as we ask for membership. *Its not the best leveraged position Ive ever seen. *

I favor a BSC bid because the BSC looks a lot more like a traditional conference of traditional Universities and State Universities. *

If we do get invited into a conference that has an auto bid to the NCAA *It is very likely that we will have to pay an entrance fee to the conference that would help make reduced revenues for the original members a little easier to swallow. *The decision as to what conference we ultimately end up may be driven by that fee.

Its also possible that no conference invitation will ever come. *I dont think anybody is obligated to let us in. *If we get one invitation we might be lucky. *If we get 2 we will certainly take the one that suits us the best. *

Idaho is a great example of how it works. *They move football to DI-A. *Get a less than stellar reception but manage a conference invite. * Several years later they have opportunity with another conference and they are now a BCS school.

Patience is the key. *If no invitation is forthcoming the loose affiliation of independents that NDSU and I think SDSU has formed with other schools could evolve into a conference for the other sports. *This might be the best option. *This conference would stabalize our scheduling and serve as a launching point for future converts to DI athletics. *

Bisonfan1234
06-18-2004, 03:46 AM
I favor a BSC bid because the BSC looks a lot more like a traditional conference of traditional Universities and State Universities.

So far this has been the major argument of just about everyone here.

It is the most pathetic argument I've ever seen. Sorry.

Who cares if we play Bumsville Loser Community College if they're better than the BSC?

I just don't understand how the name of the college can have anything to do with how well the team does.

I want to play the best that there is possible, not just the schools that have the same name and academic mission as us.

Keep athletics and academics seperate, guys. Just like church and state.

SDSUFAN
06-18-2004, 06:51 AM
I think JBB remarks are right on the money, and that is where both SDSU and NDSU are at this very moment. I think this convention of AD's going on this week will give both schools one on one exposure and opportunity to discuss future schedules and conferences. They can at least get acquainted and meeting in person always works better than talking on the telephone.

Lets see what happens.

BisonInTexas
06-18-2004, 10:56 AM
So far this has been the major argument of just about everyone here.

It is the most pathetic argument I've ever seen. Sorry.

Who cares if we play Bumsville Loser Community College if they're better than the BSC?

I just don't understand how the name of the college can have anything to do with how well the team does.

I want to play the best that there is possible, not just the schools that have the same name and academic mission as us.

Keep athletics and academics seperate, guys. Just like church and state.

Face it, NDSU is leaving DII because we don't want to play Bumsville Loser Community Colleges any more.

It sounds simple to separate athletics and academics, but that is not how college presidents view it - there will always be an implicit connection between athletics and academics. Athletics is the PR arm for the school. Playing a state flagship school will always be more prestigious than playing IUPUI and help raise the level of the university, regardless of what the relative rankings are between two conferences.

That being said, if the Mid-Con offered a membership today to join the conference, the Bison would be fools to say no. If later the BSC offered a invitation to switch conferences and join the BSC, the Bison would be even more foolish to say no.

Craig

Bisonfan1234
06-18-2004, 07:51 PM
BS!

IUPUI would wipe the floor with the BSC. We should be honered to have the chacne to play such an opponent.

Again, no one cares about the name.

Hell, the name even has TWO prestigious colleges in it: Indiana and Purdue.

uncbear
06-18-2004, 11:22 PM
I understand why NDSU and SDSU want the Big Sky and I might if I were them also. But since UNC has flatly stated they want no part of the BSC because of no baseball, then I don't want ya'll to join the BSC because I really do not want to lose the rivalries.

I understand that this is purely my selfish perspective but I like the Mid Con and the GWFC for your schools and for UNC.

By the way, if anybody cares, UNC was ranked close to 100th in D-I baseball this year in the RPI at one point and they coulda shoulda woulda beat Nebraska when UNC was up by (i think) 3 points in the bottom of the ninth.

I really wish UNC had a message board because I have a bunch more info that i know none of ya'll would give a rat's a@# about and I am just itching to spit it out.

Maybe I will just make the Bison my #1 team (the Bison are my 2nd favorite now) and that will solve my problem.

Bisonguy
06-18-2004, 11:39 PM
uncbear-

There is a UNC message board at http://www.uncbearssports.com/, however, I don't think it's functioning properly. :-/

Go ahead and jump on the Bison Bandwagon! ;D ;)

BisonInTexas
06-19-2004, 10:47 AM
BS!

IUPUI would wipe the floor with the BSC. We should be honered to have the chacne to play such an opponent.

Again, no one cares about the name.

Hell, the name even has TWO prestigious colleges in it: Indiana and Purdue.

Okay - one more beating for a dead horse...

Correction: YOU don't care about the name. The presidents of universities do, and I think that people do in general.

I'll say it again - if no one cared about the names of our opponents, NDSU would still be DII. This is all about raising the profile of the university - the BSC would better accomplish this than the Mid-Con, AND it restores old rivalries, AND it would provide a more stable home for our football program (the GWFC isn't going to be around forever).

Yep, the horse is dead...

Craig

P.S.
I hardly think that a ranking of two spots higher in something as inaccurate as the RPI (it is a friggin' statistical ranking system, nothing more) constitutes that IUPUI would "wipe the floor" with the BSC. I think that they would match up very well with the top half of the BSC, maybe even win most of the games, but that's all.

TheBisonator
06-19-2004, 01:23 PM
I'll say it again - if no one cared about the names of our opponents, NDSU would still be DII.

You hit the nail right on the head. ;)

Bisonfan1234
06-19-2004, 01:53 PM
You missed the nail completely and slammed the hammer into your thumb.

Going D1 is about going D1.

Getting into the best D1 conference that we can is about giving our teams the best chance to play quality opponents every year.

No one cares about the name so long as we're playing a D1 school.

TheBisonator
06-19-2004, 02:31 PM
Yes, because playing Centenary and UMKC every year is FAR more fulfilling than playing Montana and Idaho State. ::)

BisonInTexas
06-19-2004, 02:48 PM
Status update on the horse:

It's still dead.

Craig

JBB
06-19-2004, 03:28 PM
Either league is a big step up. The Mid-Con is a higher profile league than the BSC. If it werent for the fact they are going to manage the GWFC I wouldnt think our chances of an invite would be very good.

For Basketball, I think NDSU can acheive the level of play in the BSC and sustain it. It may be difficult to sustain the level of play in the Mid-Con.

Not long ago it was announced that a loose affiliation with a number of independents, scattered everywhere, had been formed to help with scheduling. This could become a conference.

Tatanka
06-19-2004, 04:51 PM
It is an ex-horse. It has ceased to be. :P

Bisonfan1234
06-20-2004, 04:42 AM
Yes, because playing Centenary and UMKC every year is FAR more fulfilling than playing Montana and Idaho State. ::)

It is because they're better opponents.

TheBisonator
06-20-2004, 08:07 AM
It is because they're better opponents.

OK... Um, can I buy some of that stuff you're smoking? Because that seems to be some POWERFUL stuff you've got there... ::)

biobengal
06-20-2004, 05:19 PM
Bisonfan1234 said:

"It is because they're better opponents."

Well....
Here is the five year RPI for both conferences:

Mid-Con 2004 20, 2003 23, 2002 22, 2001 20, 2000 29, Five Year Avg. 22.8

BSC 2004 22, 2003 16, 2002 21, 2001 24, 2000 13,
Five Year Avg. 19.2

Just the facts!

Bisonguy
06-20-2004, 08:43 PM
biobengal,

1234 also thinks that North Dakota is a midwestern state.

WYOBISONMAN
06-21-2004, 12:43 PM
1234 is so far lost it is probably best if we just ignore him and let him go on those goofy rants by himself. He is so obviously out of touch with NDSU and what the school needs that one can't have a sane dialog with him on anything....

JACKGUY
06-21-2004, 02:35 PM
I remember some time back someone did a men's and women's basketball attendence analysis for schools in both the Big Sky and Mid-Cont. My sense was there was some pretty pathetic numbers in both leagues. I just think fans at NDSU and SDSU will get much more excited about the Montana schools coming to town rather than a Centenary or IUPUI.

IowaBison
06-21-2004, 03:03 PM
i don't give a hoohah about RPI or bliplity-blap

i want entertainment and excitement

personally, playing montana state is about a 89.2 on the funometer, while centenary is about a 2, maybe 2.1

JBB
06-21-2004, 05:03 PM
Thats the big difference right there. We have tradition with many BSC teams, both Montana schools, Weber State, Northern Az and Portland come to mind. We have none inside the Mid Con except SDSU and UNC if we all join. The Mid Con is an urban conference and we would begin to enjoy it, but it doesnt come with the ready made history of the BSC.

tony
06-21-2004, 05:34 PM
Heck, as long as NDSU gets a conference, I don't care which it is.

Being in the same conference as the Montana schools would be cool, but I thought our BB coaches liked the Mid-Con better. Their opinion should count more than mine. And, hey, at least all those urban schools have easy-to-get-to airports.

BisonMav
06-21-2004, 06:45 PM
I am with Tony, let's just get a conference first.

Bisonfan1234
06-21-2004, 09:29 PM
The basketball coaches' opinion ARE the most important.

If they want the Mid-cont., I'm with them all the way.

JACKGUY
06-21-2004, 09:42 PM
I'm not aware of any NDSU or SDSU coaches that have gone on record saying they prefer the Mid-Cont over the Big Sky.

tony
06-21-2004, 10:12 PM
I'm not sure any coaches have made public statements. It's not like stating a preference would be helpful in any way. I have a hunch some of them would prefer the MidCon though.

The only quote I could find was from Lynn Dorn, NDSU's womens athletic director extraordinaire, saying she'd prefer the MidCon because they have men-women doubleheaders on Saturdays (women play Thursday & Saturday and men Saturday and Monday). In the Big Sky, the womens' and mens' teams play at opposite sites each time.

Who knows? Maybe the Big Sky would alter their scheduling if they added two teams.

My gut feeling is that BB coaches would rather play in the same area they recruit. Neither school recruits west much, both recruit east. Also, if you play on the west coast, your highlights might not even make the local news until the next day. Just a hunch.

Bisonfan1234
06-21-2004, 11:04 PM
Yes, making an impact where all the athletes are (to the east) is going to be extremely important.

Chicago, Wisc., and even Detroit are going to be important recruiting areas for the future.

uncbear
06-21-2004, 11:48 PM
uncbear-

There is a UNC message board at http://www.uncbearssports.com/, however, I don't think it's functioning properly. :-/

Go ahead and jump on the Bison Bandwagon! ;D ;)

By George you were right Bisonguy about the UNC message board. I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't know that but happy to know. I guess the Bison will have to remain my second favorite school.

WYOBISONMAN
06-22-2004, 02:32 PM
I have been a member of the UNC board since January, but it is so dead I took it off my links list......

uncbear
06-22-2004, 07:13 PM
I have been a member of the UNC board since January, but it is so dead I took it off my links list......

Don't give up on it. I just had a premonition that it is going to pick up.

IowaBison
06-22-2004, 07:18 PM
we should get Bison1234 on there harping about the MidCon, that's sure to drum up some business or drive everyone away

uncbear
06-22-2004, 07:21 PM
we should get Bison1234 on there harping about the MidCon, that's sure to drum up some business or drive everyone away


I would like to see any posts over the none that are there. At this point I would even like to see smack (the moderator might not agree).

WYOBISONMAN
06-22-2004, 07:44 PM
Maybe....but you probably don't need 1234 over there spreading manure... ;D

Bisonguy
06-22-2004, 09:13 PM
By George you were right Bisonguy about the UNC message board. I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't know that but *happy to know. I guess the Bison will have to remain my second favorite school.
It was partly user error. I didn't check the box on the login screen :-/.