Denver Rumor

[Paulie]

Don’t shoot the messenger, this is just a rumor I’ve heard from a U of Denver booster.

The Big Sky have approached DU about joining in all sports except football and bringing UNC with them for all sports.

The advantage is that this give the Sky 10 teams for all sports and 9 for football giving them a balanced 4 home and 4 away football schedule and an even 10 team all sports schedule. Also, obviously DU and UNC would be travel partners. The schools are about 70 miles apart with Denver International Airport directly between them.

Apparently UNC has also had discussions about playing as an associate to the Mountain West in baseball; the conference is looking to add competition due to the loss of programs at Colorado State and Wyoming. UNC would align with Air Force to give a dual Front Range presence for the Mountain West in baseball.

Again, just rumors I’ve heard here in Denver.

[Bisonfan1234]

This would easily be the worst case scenario for NDSU.

This would all but eliminate chances that NDSU gets in the Sky until PSU and CSU-S leave, if they leave.

This would also mean that our "for sure" Mid Con invite is not for sure since SUU would still be in there.

[KTF]

Probably some sioux fan posting in attempt to try to dash our hopes... ???

[89rabbit]

This would easily be the worst case scenario for NDSU.

This would all but eliminate chances that NDSU gets in the Sky until PSU and CSU-S leave, if they leave.

This would also mean that our "for sure" Mid Con invite is not for sure since SUU would still be in there.

Just for a second lets say this rumor is true. *How does this kill our shot at the Mid-Con?*The Mid-Con would still need to add three schools to get to 12 so that Divisional play (East/West) could begin. *The Mid-Con would pick up SDSU, NDSU and Utah Valley State to be a travel partner for SUU. *We are still good. *:D

[Bisonfan1234]

You're probably right.

But notice how I simply said that our "for sure" ticket wouldn't be for sure.

[Bisonguy]

Probably some sioux fan posting in attempt to try to dash our hopes... *???

Paulie is a UNC Bears fan.

[KTF]

Sorry Paulie - I didn't mean to put you in such a low class :o

[JBB]

Thats a heck of a rumor paulie, and it makes sense. If it happens it would be a good move for them. Talk about a huge travel advantage and of course it doesnt matter about travel partners in football. It would deal a blow to the GWFC too. But not as bad a blow as both SDSU and NDSU leaving.

Why would Denver do that? Are they independent now?

Why didnt Fullerton mention Denver?

Is it possible for NDSU to join a lot of different conferences? Football here. basketball there, over there baseball etc?

What about entry fees? Has anybody heard about that?

[89rabbit]

I'll answear what I can. I would only deal the GWFC a blow if Sac-State didn't leave the Big Sky. If Sac, and mayber Portland left for the Big West they would both join the Great West (this is why I don't think the Rumor is true, the Sky is going to need more then one football team IMHO).

Denver is currently in the Sun Belt Conf. With the Sunbelts shift of schools Denver has been left on an island (I have heard rumors about UNC and Denver joining the Mid-Con but not the Big Sky).

That is about all I can help you with. Things will become clear with time. We as fans need to be patient. Good things will come to us.

Go State!

[WYOBISONMAN]

I wouldn't put any money on this one. Fullerton is not even mentioning Denver.

[Bison_Kent]

Also, the Big Sky has always looked for all-sport members in past expansions. It is unlikely that they would change their stance on this at least IMO as it would mean more headaches in the future if teams leave.

[JBB]

There have been a lot of rumors about the BSC eventually moving football up to D-IA. If there is any fact to that, all-sports member candidates will have to have the potential to make that move. I think that might favor larger schools with a strong history of growth and stability.

A non football member does seem unlikely because they provide no cusion for the playoff auto bid. But, if they only add 1 football playing member they will have nine and the league could still absorb the loss of 2 schools.

It kind of depends on how much cusion they want.

[Bisonfan1234]

Perhaps Denver is planing to add football.

[wsuwarrior]

If Denver is planning on doing that then they would likely have to add Women's Ice Hockey and another women's sport (Softball or Water Polo?) to balance it out.

Beside that, they would probably need to build a stadium. Invesco Field is a bit far from campus (6 miles) to play football there.

[Bisonfan1234]

Beside that, they would probably need to build a stadium. *Invesco Field is a bit far from campus (6 miles) to play football there.

I didn't even think of that, but that's exactly what I think might happen. All they need is the money for a staff and some players.

P.S. 6 miles is too far?? This has to be a desperate joke.

Just using the nearest example: The Gophers @ the metrodome is easily 6 miles.

MANY college teams use NFL stadiums to play at.

Here are a few:

CSU-San Diego
Pitt
Temple
Tulane
USF

[TheBisonator]

The Metrodome is not 6 miles from the U of M campus. More like one mile (from the West Bank, at least).

[Bisonfan1234]

I suppose you're probably right now that I think about it.

However, 6 miles is less than some on the small incomplete list I gave.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Mile High (as us true Bronco fans still call it) would not be a good venue for any fledgling NCAA program. *It is too big and the costs of using it would be prohibitive.

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nfl/teams/1/80x60/den.gif

[Bisonguy]

I didn't even think of that, but that's exactly what I think might happen. All they need is the money for a staff and some players.

P.S. 6 miles is too far?? This has to be a desperate joke.

Just using the nearest example: The Gophers @ the metrodome is easily 6 miles.

MANY college teams use NFL stadiums to play at.

Here are a few:

CSU-San Diego
Pitt
Temple
Tulane
USF

I-AA Tennessee State (Adelphia Stadium)

[Bisonfan1234]

Mile High (as us true Bronco fans still call it) would not be a good venue for any fledgling NCAA program. It is too big and the costs of using it would be prohibitive.

Look at the list.

A MID MAJOR 1AA team uses an NFL stadium for crying out loud.

[BisonMav]

There are a lot of people in the Twin Cities that hope the Gophers get an on-campus stadium, that they don't have to share with the Vikings.

[Bisonfan1234]

Denver would be a start up program, however, while the gophs have been around for 100+ years.

Once Denver sees if they can have a successful program that makes money, THEN they can start worrying about on campus stadiums.

[LurkingDog]

Dianne Murphy has said football isn't returning to DU without an endowment to pay all costs.

In other words, forgetaboutit.

[LurkingDog]

Look at the list.

A MID MAJOR 1AA team uses an NFL stadium for crying out loud.

I'm not sure what you mean by mid-major. Those who want to rationalize excluding the Metro Atlantic, Pioneer, and Northeast from the playoffs (a couple of amateur websites) use the term "mid-major." TSU is certainly not in any of those conferences.

State funding was needed for Adelphia. Black legislative votes were especially critical. Letting TSU play some games at the new stadium was part of the deal they reached.

[Bisonfan1234]

And Denver could tap into the same state funding.

[LurkingDog]

And Denver could tap into the same state funding.


I don't know how it works in North Dakota, but most states aren't in the habit of building stadiums for private universities.

For DU, I think a Mile High-sized stadium would be mostly empty. As recently as 2002, the Pioneers were drawing less than 1,000 per game for men's basketball.

If they wanted to return to the gridirion, they would be a good fit in the non-scholarship PFL. DU's profile is similar to Drake, Butler, et al.

I think football would have the potential to draw 4-5 K per game--about the same as DU's (very good) hockey team. But they don't seem interested.

[Bisonfan1234]

Except the stadium IS ALREADY BUILT.

No shit a small school isn't going to fill a NFL stadium.

[LurkingDog]

Are you being a clown to entertain, or are you really as stupid as you appear ???

[BisonFan]

Are you being a clown to entertain, or are you really as stupid as you appear ???

Nice rhetorical question LurkingDog! Hopefully 1234 doesn't answer it!

[Sac_State]

"On the Sunbelt board, there is speculation that the Big Sky Conference will add both Northern Colorado and Denver, so there will be ten basketball and nine football members. Apparently, the promise of these Colorado teams in the Big Sky has been instrumental in getting the Big Sky Conference a TV deal with a new sports network in Colorado. "

Hum, the plot thickens.

[89rabbit]

"On the Sunbelt board, there is speculation that the Big Sky Conference will add both Northern Colorado and Denver, so there will be ten basketball and nine football members. Apparently, the promise of these Colorado teams in the Big Sky has been instrumental in getting the Big Sky Conference a TV deal with a new sports network in Colorado. "

Hum, the plot thickens.

According to one guy on the Sun Belt board. *::) *Even the guys on his board think he is a little off on this issue.

http://www.gomeangreen.com/cgi-bin/sunbelt/viewpost.cgi?thread_id=38874& amp;message_id=38874

The Big Sky signed an agreement with Altitude on June the 3rd. Here is the press release form the Big Sky web site: *

http://www.bigskyconf.com/article.asp?articleid=57957 *

June 3, 2004 *

Altitude Sports & Entertainment and Big Sky Conference Reach Multi-Year Telecast Agreement *

Related Material *

Altitude-Big Sky Sign Telecast Agreement *

Altitude Sports & Entertainment (Altitude) -- Kroenke Sports Enterprises; regional sports network -- and the Big Sky Conference, today announced a multi-year telecast agreement to present live Big Sky Conference athletic events on Altitude. Jim Martin, CEO of Altitude, and Douglas Fullerton, Big Sky Conference Commissioner, made the announcement. *

Under the agreement, Altitude will televise annually up to 12 Big Sky events beginning in the 2004-05 academic year, including men's football and basketball matchups, as well as the women's basketball tournament final and other men's and women's contests.

*

I am not sure that 12 TV games is enough to sway who the next member of the Big Sky is going to be. *

I have heard a lot of talk about how adding denver will "capture" the Denver market. *Not sure how a team that drew 1,569 (avg.) fans, last year, for Men's Basketball "captures" the Denver Market. That number of fans wouldn't even put them in the top 30 of D-II. It would however make the a strong #5 in D-III. *:o

http://www.ncaa.org/stats/m_basketball/attendance/2004_basketball_attend.pdf?session=bereycdefiRgTWq SkyRJqTTTJE

Lets face it, this is a pretty far fetched rumor started by one guy on the Sun Belt board. *Denver doesnt have a football team, doesn't have track, doesn't have Cross Country. *They do have Hockey, Lacrosse, Skiing, and Men's soccer (none of which the Big Sky offers). *I don't see it, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[IowaBison]

I hope your right, mr. rabbit.

Denver doesn't seem like a good pick to me either, but who knows.

[89rabbit]

On another board I put it a little different and it really makes you think why are we even talking about the University of Denver. The University of Denver doesn't offer what one could argue is the Big Sky's # 1 sport football. Of the 15 sports that the Big Sky offers the University of Denver doesn't field teams in 7. That is almost half :o (Football, Men's CC, Women's CC, Men's IndoorTrack, Women's Indoor Track, Men's Outdoor Track, Women's Outdoor Track).

Would the NCC add a school that didn't play football or almost half of the sports it offers to replace SDSU or NDSU?

[Bison_Kent]

All I can say that was the quote I got directly from Fullerton himself is that only schools with all the sports that the Big Sky currently offered would be considered. This hence would drop out any Denver possibility. Of course, this was last February so I need to get his stance now to clarify.

Besides, the Big Sky has expanded to large metro areas with the last expansion. Cal State-Northridge is now gone and it is looking like Sac State and Portland State will do the same. Even if the two latter schools remain in the Big Sky, what have they done for the conference? Have they opened up new media markets? Have they made the Big Sky stronger in attendence? Have they brought in top-notch facilities for all their sports?

From what I have seen, adding a big market team that is probably at best, the third most popular school in their region has not worked at all. Why would the Big Sky make the same mistake again by adding Denver?

IMO, it would be like adding a similar school that they now will not bring more notarity or attendence to games. Plus, they are probably the fourth or fifth media option in Denver, after CU, CSU, Air Force, and likely UNC.

[Sac_State]

* and it is looking like Sac State and Portland State will do the same. *Even if the two latter schools remain in the Big Sky, what have they done for the conference? *Have they opened up new media markets? * Have they made the Big Sky stronger in attendence? *Have they brought in top-notch facilities for all their sports? *




You lose all credibility when you make comments like this. Who, pray tell, has told you this priviledged information?

WHO SAID SAC IS LEAVING THE SKY!

The Sac president has said the school is staying for the immediate future. Yes, things change, and perhaps Montana might be leaving in a few years. Start saying that false statement and after awhile you will believe it too.

After awhile of hearing you parrot this same sentence, it is becoming obvious that your interest in the SKY has effected your rational and is providing your assumptions into a real 'smoke screen belief'.

I don't have anything against NDSU, but hearing you repeat yourself, based on false facts, is getting tiresome.

[Bisonfan1234]

I do believe Sac will drop football and leave the sky for the Big West. It makes sense for them economically.


Plus, they are probably the fourth or fifth media option in Denver, after CU, CSU, Air Force, and likely UNC.

To be technical, neither CSU or Air Force are in the Denver area. UNC, meanwhile, is about as far from Denver as SCSU is from Minneapolis.

[Bisonguy]

The blurb on the Sunbelt board was started by none other than NDSU cynic/small-college fan star2city from the siouxsports board.

Does anybody know of any other western DI conferences that don't already have TV contracts? I see this station picking up the Big Sky along the lines of Victory (RIP) picking up Mankato and SCSU games. Additional programming on the cheap. :-/

[Bison_Kent]

Bison1234,

The two schools you mentioned may not be close to Denver but the Denver press still has more on them then U of Denver (aside from maybe hockey).

[Bisonfan1234]

Just their football teams.

[Bison_Kent]

*Even if the two latter schools remain in the Big Sky, what have they done for the conference? *Have they opened up new media markets? * Have they made the Big Sky stronger in attendence? *Have they brought in top-notch facilities for all their sports? *



Sac State,

I stated the following and for some reason you haven't answered these questions. *

I will grant that there is nothing that I have seen or heard formally that said Sac State is going anywhere except to a higher division such as the WAC. *But the athletic committee last springs stated that Sac State should look at a more regional conference. *I will also grant that it also said that the status quo would also be looked at, but also mentioned the WAC, and Big West. *But putting two and two together shows that Sac State will do something conference-wise. *Sac State is the only California school in the Big Sky and is no closer then 580 miles (Portland) to the closest Big Sky school. *580 miles to your closest rival is not regional to me, especially since you are a California school. *Is it to you?

Here is a direct quote from the report:

The President should continue to explore conference affiliation that will ensure success for all athletic programs as well as combining the goals of maintaining quality of competition and the promotion of natural regional rivalries. This investigation should include a review of the status quo, the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), the Big West Conference, and other emerging conference affiliations.

Here is the link to the full report:
http://www.csus.edu/president/athletictaskforce.htm

[uncbear]

I just don't think this rumour makes any sense. The point that somebody made about DU only having something like 7 of the 15 sports that the BSC offfers seems like pretty strong evidence that DU does not fit into the goals of the BSC.

I don't like the idea of being separated from NDSU and SDSU. I have come to know and love those rivalries. Since I became a UNC fan back in 1992--I have never missed a NDSU-UNC game in greeley.

[Bisonguy]

The blurb on the Sunbelt board was started by none other than NDSU cynic/small-college fan star2city from the siouxsports board.

Does anybody know of any other western DI conferences that don't already have TV contracts? I see this station picking up the Big Sky along the lines of Victory (RIP) picking up Mankato and SCSU games. Additional programming on the cheap. *:-/

I hate to quote myself, but jeezzzz....

The plot thickens, or possibly is thinned out, as this was posted on the Sunbelt board-

Denver already has signed a TV contract for all sports with Fox Sports Rocky Mountain, not Altitude.


Why would U of Denver sign a deal with Fox Sports Rocky Mountian if they would be covered on Altitude with the Big Sky?


The Big Sky has already humiliated SUU, NDSU, and SDSU by giving them very public rejections in the last few years. Why would they warm up to them so quickly? Northern Colorado, on the other hand, has played coy to the Big Sky and has never publicly pushed for Big Sky membership. So, by your logic, why is the other 'UNC' even being mentioned?
As far as Denver not being mentioned in the press, no reporter has been asking the right questions. They'll ask: is SUU being considered? SDSDU? NDSU? But they won't even think about asking about Denver.


Now, I KNOW it's star2city posting this.

[BisonInTexas]

The blurb on the Sunbelt board was started by none other than NDSU cynic/small-college fan star2city from the siouxsports board.

Does anybody know of any other western DI conferences that don't already have TV contracts? I see this station picking up the Big Sky along the lines of Victory (RIP) picking up Mankato and SCSU games. Additional programming on the cheap. :-/

The part about star2city is interesting if it is true. Since he lurks here often (just can't get enough Bison News) and then posts his doom and gloom on Siouxsports about NDSU's imminent failure in DI, I am sure he will come on this thread to deny it.

Although his appearance here might not be a good idea, since his conspiracy theory about DU and UNC to the Big Sky has more holes than the swiss cheese I had on my sandwich for lunch - as was ably pointed out by 89rabbit. Time will tell, but methinks star2city will be eating a lot of crow when NDSU lands a conference invitation...

Craig

[Bisonguy]

The original post on the Sunbelt board and star2city's post on the siouxsports board are only 12 hours apart. Add in the quirky username (fourwindscross -star2city), the spiteful comments about NDSU, the statement of NDSU being humilated (when the actually comment was "The Big Sky is not looking at expanding into the Dakotas at this time")-how can it not be star2city?


btw-star2city hasn't posted on this board for nearly two years.

[BisonInTexas]

And the fact that fourwindscross has only 4 posts on the Sunbelt board.

All I am waiting for on the Sunbelt board from "fourwindscross" is the claim that the Mid-Con would rather add TAMCC and UVSU than NDSU and SDSU and it's a lock that it is star2city.

Craig

[BisonInTexas]

The original post on the Sunbelt board and star2city's post on the siouxsports board are only 12 hours apart. Add in the quirky username (fourwindscross -star2city), the spiteful comments about NDSU, the statement of NDSU being humilated (when the actually comment was "The Big Sky is not looking at expanding into the Dakotas at this time")-how can it not be star2city?


btw-star2city hasn't posted on this board for nearly two years.



Yeah, I remember when he was posting here. He is always referring to Bisonville on Siouxsports when he posts there, though, so I know he still visits here on occasion.

[Sac_State]

BK: Just because a school is 580 miles from its closest neighbor doesn't mean it is leaving the conference. Look at the Dakota's and make that argument.

The Big West does not sponsor football. The crack about exploring all options was made because the President was new, came from a NCAA III school and didn't fully understand the lay of the athletic land at this level.

It was also a scare tactic to get the students to vote and have donors finally open their checkbooks. If the arena vote failed, the chances were better the Big West would be an option.

The arena vote passed resoundly 55.2%, 'so the direction the school needs to go in was decided by the students.' They voted 5-6 years ago to fully fund football in another election.

The comment made by Gonzalez is so out of context and accuracy that it is almost like saying 'we feel it wise for the Dakota's to look elsewhere for a conference.'

[Bison_Kent]

Sac State,

NDSU would not join the Big Sky alone. SDSU would be coming along too. The two schools are 190 miles apart (a good driving distance). Now, if a California school close to Sac State was looking to join the 'Sky I would agree with your arguement. However, reports have shown that no California teams are being looked at now.

Who knows? Maybe Sac State will join the WAC. I am guessing they have about the same fan base as Idaho does and some how the Vandals were let into that I-A conference.

I am just quoting what I read in Sac State's own athletic advisery board. I have yet to read anything more up to date then that Feb. date.

[Sac_State]

It looks like all IAA conferences will soon be IA.

Besides, even when Sac joined the Sky in '96 their 'partner' was Northridge, which is about 350+ miles away. The Sky is big and spread out. Keeping it western oriented with SUU or UNC would be preferred.

[JBB]

How many times has the BSC passed on SUU?

[Star2City]

The part about star2city is interesting if it is true. *Since he lurks here often (just can't get enough Bison News) and then posts his doom and gloom on Siouxsports about NDSU's imminent failure in DI, I am sure he will come on this thread to deny it. *

Although his appearance here might not be a good idea, since his conspiracy theory about DU and UNC to the Big Sky has more holes than the swiss cheese I had on my sandwich for lunch - as was ably pointed out by 89rabbit. *Time will tell, but methinks star2city will be eating a lot of crow when NDSU lands a conference invitation...

Craig


After a self-imposed 2 year moratorium on posting here, I’ll respond. *Considering I live within one-mile of a Sun Belt school campus and had considerable previous interaction with another football-playing Sunbelt member, why wouldn’t I post on a Sunbelt board about a subject matter that would be of interest to them? *Bisonguy, a.k.a. known as SpaceRaider and an apparent Middle Tennessee State fan, posts there. *My original posting did not bring up NDSU. *Bisonguy ‘Space’Raider postings pushed his NDSU points. *

As I have stated numerous times, NDSU will have extreme difficulty in obtaining conference affiliation because of two main factors: *lack of a media base and geography. *UND would face the same difficulty, hence my stance on Siouxsports about UND going Div I unless a conference affiliation is secured. * All the emotion that you pour into your conference search isn’t going to change those facts.

One of the purposes of message boards is to use the information to connect dots of what is really happening behind the scenes that the press doesn’t have a clue about or refuses to report. *Paulie, a UNC fan, comes to this board and reports first hand what he has personally heard. *You guys flat out reject it, either because it’s against your conventional “wisdom” or you don’t trust Paulie’s source. *Come August, I can almost guarantee you guys that NDSU will not have a Big Sky bid. *My money stays firmly on UNC and Denver getting bids, against conventional wisdom of message board fanatics, most of whom have no clue about what they are talking about. *Right now, the Big Sky is only leading you guys on. *If they need more teams in 3-4 years, after Denver and UNC are in the conference, you’ll have a chance. *The statements from Sunbelt Commissioner, Wright Waters, implies in very polite diplomatic terms that Denver is in “play” with a western conference. *That can only be the Big Sky.

I know, I know, why listen to a UND fan? *Let me remind you of my track record:

1. *Predicted the formation of the Great West Conference one year before it happened.
2. *Predicted the rejection of NDSU and SDSU in Feb 2003 by the Big Sky well before it happened
3. *Predicted in 2003 the formation of an independent affiliation, to start “play” in 2005, of indy schools, including NDSU, SDSU, UNC, UVSC, TxAMCC, UTPA, and IPFW. *This was confirmed this spring.

Come August, yes, someone will be eating crow. *Up to now, that responsibility has been filled the regular posters on this board. * ;)

[TheBisonator]

Hmm, that's weird, because I heard that 1) The UNC AD publicly said he did not want an invitation to the Big Sky, because they don't offer baseball, and 2) That Denver is almost the LAST school the Big Sky would want, because they don't offer half the sports that the BSC requires.

"Lack of a media base"?? You say NDSU and Fargo is not enough of a media market for the BSC?? No offense, but that's one of the stupidest things I've heard all year, and I work in customer service. Lemme tell you some demographic info about some of the "big" media markets in the BSC: ::)

2003 estimated Big Sky "big market" populations:

Missoula - Pop. 60,722
Pocatello - *Pop. 51,009
Bozeman - *Pop. 30,753
Flagstaff - Pop. 55,893

But...

FM immediate area population

(Fargo-Moorhead-West Fargo-Dilworth-Oakport-Horace-Harwood-Frontier-Reiles Acres-Briarwood-Prairie Rose-North River combined):

147,776

Don't tell me that F-M is not big enough of a media market for the BSC. That is a REALLY fallacious argument.

[Bison_Kent]

The Big Sky has already humiliated SUU, NDSU, and SDSU by giving them very public rejections in the last few years. Why would they warm up to them so quickly? Northern Colorado, on the other hand, has played coy to the Big Sky and has never publicly pushed for Big Sky membership. So, by your logic, why is the other 'UNC' even being mentioned?
As far as Denver not being mentioned in the press, no reporter has been asking the right questions. They'll ask: is SUU being considered? SDSU? NDSU? But they won't even think about asking about Denver.


The main reason, I believe, that the Big Sky would consider teams that they might not have considered in the recent past is the West has been shaken in a way that most Big Sky schools did not think it would. Idaho (the Big Sky's #1 hope for expansion) will be going to the I-A WAC from the Sun Belt for all sports (just like New Mexico State and Utah State)).

You can argue all you want that NDSU (and SDSU) is out of geographical contents of the Big Sky but the only ones that will be picking any expansion schools are the current Big Sky presidents. They will be the true judges.

It will be interesting what comes of the August meetings. I just can't believe that the Big Sky will shy away from their All-sports stance. With all the teams moving conferences these days, there is little stability and not having All-sports members gives little a conference less stability.

Remember, the Big Sky picked Portland State in 1996 and forced them to get men's basketball as a sport. They also forced Cal State-Northridge out since they were dropping football in 2001. Having a travel partner for Sac State would have been nice if they would have accepted the non-football playing teams. Now, Sac State is over 500 miles from their closest Big Sky mate.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Kent is right on the money. If they Sky wants some presitige, they go for NDSU/SDSU and figure out that travel is an artificial issue created by Terry Wanless.

[Bisonguy]

Star2City,

As much as it pains me to admit it, I never posted on the Sunbelt board. SpaceRaider uses a link from the GF Herald in his post. You know I wouldn't do that, when I could use a feature from a much more reputable newspaper in ND. *::) ;)

btw- you can check IP addresses of posters on the Sunbelt board- Space Raider works for Wyle Laboratories in southern California (aerospace testing company *???). I live in Fargo and don't work for the aerospace industry. Nice try. *:P
Looks like you live in Alabama. *???

Middle Tennessee State fan? Nope- Bison and Buckeye fan. *;D ;D ;D

All that can be done until Aug. 9th is wait and speculate.

[Star2City]

Star2City,

As much as it pains me to admit it, I never posted on the Sunbelt board. SpaceRaider uses a link from the GF Herald in his post. You know I wouldn't do that, when I could use a feature from a much more reputable newspaper in ND. *::) ;)

btw- you can check IP addresses of posters on the Sunbelt board- Space Raider works for Wyle Laboratories in southern California (aerospace testing company *???). I live in Fargo and don't work for the aerospace industry. Nice try. *:P
Looks like you live in Alabama. *???

Middle Tennessee State fan? Nope- Bison and Buckeye fan. *;D ;D ;D

All that can be done until Aug. 9th is wait and speculate.



O.K. sorry, I do have to eat crow on that one. ;) Looks like there are Bison fans in places where you least expect them (and not just one).

[Bisonguy]

I've been called worse *:-[.

It looks like Altitude is also covering Air Force Academy football, boxing, and basketball. I wonder what a contract with Colorado or Colorado State would do to Big Sky programming?

Is the Big Sky meat and potatoes for Altitude sports, or just filler (the venerable corn flakes in the meatloaf) for their programming? Victory sports (RIP) was going to televise Mankato and SCSU football games this year. Television contracts may or may not have any meaning.

[Bisonfan1234]

FM immediate area population

(Fargo-Moorhead-West Fargo-Dilworth-Oakport-Horace-Harwood-Frontier-Reiles Acres-Briarwood-Prairie Rose-North River combined):

147,776


Nope. Census 2000 has FM CMSA at around 177000.

[WYOBISONMAN]

That would be some major population for the Big Sky.

[Bisonguy]

The Fargo metro area in the Government Census includes all of Cass and Clay counties.

The Bisonator is only including immediate surrounding areas around Fargo, not the sum of both counties.

[TheBisonator]

Nope. Census 2000 has FM CMSA at around 177000.

I know. I was talking about the immediate F-M urban area, not the metro.

The F-M metro area (latest 2003 figures) is actually a little more than that, at 179,121. But the Census Bureau counts all of Cass and Clay counties as the F-M metro area. In my example, I was only adding up the population of all the cities in the immediate area.

Those two categories can be easily confused. I get them confused sometimes too.

[BisonInTexas]

After a self-imposed 2 year moratorium on posting here, I?ll respond. *Considering I live within one-mile of a Sun Belt school campus and had considerable previous interaction with another football-playing Sunbelt member, why wouldn?t I post on a Sunbelt board about a subject matter that would be of interest to them? *Bisonguy, a.k.a. known as SpaceRaider and an apparent Middle Tennessee State fan, posts there. *My original posting did not bring up NDSU. *Bisonguy ?Space?Raider postings pushed his NDSU points. *

As I have stated numerous times, NDSU will have extreme difficulty in obtaining conference affiliation because of two main factors: *lack of a media base and geography. *UND would face the same difficulty, hence my stance on Siouxsports about UND going Div I unless a conference affiliation is secured. * All the emotion that you pour into your conference search isn?t going to change those facts.

One of the purposes of message boards is to use the information to connect dots of what is really happening behind the scenes that the press doesn?t have a clue about or refuses to report. *Paulie, a UNC fan, comes to this board and reports first hand what he has personally heard. *You guys flat out reject it, either because it?s against your conventional ?wisdom? or you don?t trust Paulie?s source. *Come August, I can almost guarantee you guys that NDSU will not have a Big Sky bid. *My money stays firmly on UNC and Denver getting bids, against conventional wisdom of message board fanatics, most of whom have no clue about what they are talking about. *Right now, the Big Sky is only leading you guys on. *If they need more teams in 3-4 years, after Denver and UNC are in the conference, you?ll have a chance. *The statements from Sunbelt Commissioner, Wright Waters, implies in very polite diplomatic terms that Denver is in ?play? with a western conference. *That can only be the Big Sky.

I know, I know, why listen to a UND fan? *Let me remind you of my track record:

1. *Predicted the formation of the Great West Conference one year before it happened.
2. *Predicted the rejection of NDSU and SDSU in Feb 2003 by the Big Sky well before it happened
3. *Predicted in 2003 the formation of an independent affiliation, to start ?play? in 2005, of indy schools, including NDSU, SDSU, UNC, UVSC, TxAMCC, UTPA, and IPFW. *This was confirmed this spring.

Come August, yes, someone will be eating crow. *Up to now, that responsibility has been filled the regular posters on this board. * ;)



You also predicted that SDSU would not move up due to USD staying DII on this very board, and you predicted it was unlikely NDSU could get more than a few home games this year in football. You certainly can connect those dots on message boards... ::)

Now you are presenting hearsay by a conference commisioner as to what Denver is exploring and connect the dots that it must be the Big Sky, ignoring the fact that DU does not field teams in 7 of the 15 sports required by the BSC! Their basketball team, which the BSC so desperately covets (at least by your reasoning) averages about 1500 fans a game. And this is because of a television deal for a network based in CO for a whopping 12 games that the BSC has already inked with the current conference membership. All the while ignoring what the BSC commissioner stated as to candidate schools for expansion in which he did not mention DU. That was because the stupid reporters didn't ask about DU. Right.... There are so many loose ends in your logic that it would make a good Michael Moore movie...

I don't expect any firm decisions to be made on 8/9 for any of the candidates, so you won't have to eat crow that soon. In the meantime, keep connecting those dots. ;D

[JBB]

The most predictable thing about star2s predictions is their predictability. Each and everyone of them takes a classical und* negative slant. One way or another his predictions always deliver a negative sentiment towards Decision I. The sky is falling......

[Bison_Dan]

The most predictable thing about star2s predictions is their predictability. *Each and everyone of them takes a classical und* negative slant. * One way or another his predictions always deliver a negative sentiment towards Decision I. *The sky is falling......

Right on JBB - Star2 is hoping (like all sue fans) that NDSU won't get into a conference, because if they do with SDSU, und will be delegated to DII forever with the crookstons of the world. With no travel partner their chances are about zero for moving up.

[Bisonfan1234]

I know. I was talking about the immediate F-M urban area, not the metro.

The F-M metro area (latest 2003 figures) is actually a little more than that, at 179,121. But the Census Bureau counts all of Cass and Clay counties as the F-M metro area. In my example, I was only adding up the population of all the cities in the immediate area.

Those two categories can be easily confused. I get them confused sometimes too.


Why wouldn't you just use the census data?

FM is not even close to the Twin Cities.
You CAN (and people do) drive into Fargo to work from all over Cass and Clay counties. That's probably why they did it that way. Weird.

[IowaBison]

I would actually think that the regional service area, which has nearly 1/2 million people would be a more appropriate measure.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I am with NorthDakotaBison on that one....(or IowaBison or what ever the name is this week.... ;))

The media reach of the Fargo media is significant when looking at a "rural" conference like the Big Sky. And, with in that Fargo media reach, the Bison and the Big Sky would get top billing. Unlike the cold shoulder in Sacramento and Portland.

[IowaBison]

sorry about the name changing, i got a job at ndsu and couldn't continue referring to myself as iowabison being in fargo

[89rabbit]

You also predicted that SDSU would not move up due to USD staying DII on this very board, and you predicted it was unlikely NDSU could get more than a few home games this year in football. *You certainly can connect those dots on message boards... *::)

Now you are presenting hearsay by a conference commisioner as to what Denver is exploring and connect the dots that it must be the Big Sky, ignoring the fact that DU does not field teams in 7 of the 15 sports required by the BSC! *Their basketball team, which the BSC so desperately covets (at least by your reasoning) averages about 1500 fans a game. *And this is because of a television deal for a network based in CO for a whopping 12 games that the BSC has already inked with the current conference membership. All the while ignoring what the BSC commissioner stated as to candidate schools for expansion in which he did not mention DU. * *That was because the stupid reporters didn't ask about DU. *Right.... There are so many loose ends in your logic that it would make a good Michael Moore movie...

I don't expect any firm decisions to be made on 8/9 for any of the candidates, so you won't have to eat crow that soon. * In the meantime, keep connecting those dots. *;D

You would also have to ignore what a Big Sky President has said in the Sioux Falls Argus Leader.

http://www.argusleader.com/sports/Saturdayarticle2.shtml

"From my perspective, the Dakota schools have always been in the packages I've been interested in," Gamble said Friday.

[Bison_Kent]

Here is a link from the Honolulu paper on the WAC. Could the WAC go after Denver, just as they went after three other soon-to-be Sun Belt teams (Idaho, Utah State, and New Mexico State)? Denver to the WAC makes more sense then Denver to the Big Sky. The WAC is apparentley looking at one non-football playing school, just as Star2City thought on the Big Sky.

I can see it for the WAC Denver addition though. Denver would stay in a conference that is roughly equal to the Sun Belt in RPI (not lower like the Big Sky). Plus, many of the WAC schools have more of the sports that Denver plays.

Here is the link:
http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=2814

[Bisonfan1234]

Here is a link from the Honolulu paper on the WAC. *Could the WAC go after Denver, just as they went after three other soon-to-be Sun Belt teams (Idaho, Utah State, and New Mexico State)? *Denver to the WAC makes more sense then Denver to the Big Sky. *The WAC is apparentley looking at one non-football playing school, just as Star2City thought on the Big Sky. *

I can see it for the WAC Denver addition though. *Denver would stay in a conference that is roughly equal to the Sun Belt in RPI (not lower like the Big Sky). *Plus, many of the WAC schools have more of the sports that Denver plays. *

Here is the link:
http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=2814

Or perhaps CSU-S to the WAC.

[Bison_Kent]

Sac would have to drop football then.

[Bisonfan1234]

Sac would have to drop football then.



If they only wanted a non-football member.

But that's very possible anyway.

[BisonInTexas]

If they only wanted a non-football member.

But that's very possible anyway.

Read the link.

[Bisonguy]

I wonder if the $1.2 million from ESPN for the WAC is more than what Altitude Sports Network is paying the Big Sky? ::)

Denver is supposedly very good at negotiating TV contracts (or so I've heard), so I would think they would lean towards the conference with more $$$$$.


Good find Kent, good find.

[Bisonguy]

[Rhetorical question]Where's the headquarters for the WAC located?[/rhetorical question]




answer: *Denver

I wonder if they might want a team in one of the area's largest media markets and where the conference HQ is?

[Bisonfan1234]

[Rhetorical question]Where's the headquarters for the WAC located?[/rhetorical question]




answer: *Denver

I wonder if they might want a team in one of the area's largest media markets and where the conference HQ is?

Probably because the WAC and the MWC used to be the same conference.

[Sac_State]

Sac would have to drop football then.



Why? Play as an idenpendent until the stadium is built and then join as a full member.

[NDSU_grad]

I think one thing working against Denver getting into the WAC is their lack of a baseball program. Isn't the WAC worried about losing their autobid with the departure of the Texas schools (all of who sponsor baseball)?

[WYOBISONMAN]

That is an interesting observation.....and Gonzaga does have baseball. The plot thickens.....

[BisonInTexas]

Why? Play as an idenpendent until the stadium is built and then join as a full member.


The article that Bison_Kent referred stated that the WAC is happy with 9 members for football (makes for an even home/away conference schedule). They are only looking at adding a BB school at this time. Thus the talk about Gonzaga and Denver.

Craig

[Bisonfan1234]

I think Gonzaga is quite happy waltzing through their conf. tournement on route to the NCAA tournement.

They could win the WAC, but not for sure every year.

[IowaBison]

that sounds like the logic of UND



big fish, little pond

[Bison_Kent]

It looks like the WAC and Denver are talking. In the Honolulu article (last bullet), it says that Denver officials have talked to WAC officials, but no offer has been made yet.

If they are talking, it confirms the WAC has interest in Denver.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Jul/30/sp/sp06a.html

[Bisonfan1234]

I think SUU UNC have a better chance if they only want 1 team.

If 2, then NDSU SDSU should be pretty for sure.

[Paulie]

Not that it matters, but confirmation my source was correct.

Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton said he considered DU as a prospective new member, but the Pioneers pulled out of the discussions. "They didn't want to carry forward," he said."

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~87~2671931,00.html