Polls this week

[Bisonguy]

NDSU busts into the top ten of Don Hansen's top 40:

October 12, 2003
NCAA II Top 40
1 GRAND VALLEY STATE MI 6-0 21 WINONA STATE MN 6-1
2 VALDOSTA STATE GA 6-0 22 BENTLEY MA 6-0
3 CARSON-NEWMAN TN 6-0 23 MESA STATE CO 5-1
4 TEXAS A&M-KINGSVILLE 4-1 24 KENTUCKY STATE 5-1
5 SAGINAW VALLEY ST. MI 6-0 25 NORTHWEST MISSOURI 4-2
6 PITTSBURG STATE KS 6-0 26 FAYETTEVILLE STATE NC 4-2
7 NORTH ALABAMA 6-0 27 EMPORIA STATE KS 5-1
8 NORTH DAKOTA STATE 5-1 28 ST. CLOUD STATE MN 5-2
9 CENTRAL WASHINGTON 3-2 29 CONCORDIA-ST. PAUL 5-1
10 CATAWBA NC 5-1 30 NORTH DAKOTA 5-1
11 DELTA STATE MS 5-1 31 MANSFIELD PA 6-0
12 TARLETON STATE TX 4-2 32 CHADRON STATE NE 4-2
13 INDIANA PA 5-1 33 EAST STROUDSBURG PA 3-2
14 TUSCULUM TN 5-1 34 SOUTHEASTERN OKLA. 5-1
15 CENTRAL OKLAHOMA 6-0 35 PRESBYTERIAN SC 2-3
16 SOUTHERN ARKANSAS 4-2 36 MARS HILL NC 4-2
17 CENTRAL MISSOURI 5-1 37 EDINBORO PA 4-2
18 NEBRASKA-OMAHA 5-2 38 BOWIE STATE MD 5-2
19 MISSOURI WESTERN 4-2 39 ALBANY STATE GA 5-2
20 MIDWESTERN STATE TX 4-2 40 EASTERN NEW MEXICO 5-1

[Tatanka]

As long as we stay ahead of Delta State, maybe this year we won't have to play in kitty litter...

Other than that, Sue at #30 is somewhat gratifying. Don't reward them for their candy-ass schedule.

[BisonMav]

NDSU is up to #7 now.

D2Football.com Poll

Rank Team Last Week
1 Valdosta State (6-0) 1
2 Grand Valley State (6-0) 2
3 Carson-Newman (6-0) 3
4 Saginaw Valley State (6-0) 4
5 Pittsburg State (6-0) 7
6 Texas A&M-Kingsville (3-1) 8
7 North Dakota State (5-1) 12
8 Catawba (5-1) 9
9 Central Oklahoma (6-0) 13
10 North Alabama (6-0) 15
11 Delta State (5-1) 16
12 IUP (5-1) 5
13 Tusculum (5-1) 17
14 Central Missouri (5-1) 6
15 North Dakota (5-1) 19
16 Emporia State (5-1) 11
17 Winona State (6-1) 21
18 Nebraska-Omaha (5-2) 10
19 Mesa State (5-1) NR
20 Central Washington (3-2) 20
21 St. Cloud State (5-2) 22
22 Bentley (6-0) 23
23 Southeast Oklahoma (5-1) 24
24 Eastern New Mexico (5-1) 25
25 Tarleton State (4-2) NR

[tony]

Tatanka, bad news is NDSU was ranked WAAAAAAY ahead of Delta State when NDSU got sent down to Delta State.

[Bisonguy]

Tatanka, bad news is NDSU was ranked WAAAAAAY ahead of Delta State when NDSU got sent down to Delta State.

What was the reasoning for that again? Are teams reseeded after the quarterfinals? I remember that DSU was the #5 seed in the south, but got in because Tuskegee doesn't participate in the playoffs.

Also, if two teams from the same conference are in the playoffs, does the selection committee make them play in the first round? Let's say a NCC team is the #2 and #4 seed, would they play in the first round even though they normally wouldn't have the #2 and #4 seed play?

[tony]

My point, imperfectly stated, was that NDSU was rated at least ten spots higher than Delta State in every national poll. However the NCAA regional committees decided that Delta State should get the home game.

[Bison_Kent]

Also, if two teams from the same conference are in the playoffs, does the selection committee make them play in the first round? Let's say a NCC team is the #2 and #4 seed, would they play in the first round even though they normally wouldn't have the #2 and #4 seed play?


Actually, usually it is the opposite, if we base things on the past. Before the NSIC got a team in, the NCC and MIAA champions would always host and it almost always was the opposite conference team in the Midwest Region.

However, with the new rankings based on points, I am sure it is possible that two conference members meet in the opening round.

[Bisonguy]

Here's the Dopke poll:
The Bison have been #6 for the past couple weeks in this poll.

Dopke 2003 Division II Route 66 Rankings

October 13, 2003
1 Grand Valley State (6-0) Lakers roaring through GLIAC foes.
2 Valdosta State (6-0) Blazers have their hands full in the rugged Gulf South.
3 Pittsburg State (6-0) Gorillas top the MIAA.
4 Carson-Newman (6-0) Eagles nesting atop the SAC.
5 North Dakota State (5-1) Bison charging through the NCC.
6 Saginaw Valley State (6-0) Cardinals flying towards a GVSU showdown.
7 North Alabama (6-0) Lions roaring past the Gulf South.
8 Texas A&M-Kingsville (4-1) Tough scheduling can't stop the Javelinas run.
9 Delta State (5-1) Statesmen can still make a statement.
10 Central Oklahoma (6-0) Bronchos poised for something big.
11 Mansfield (6-0) Mountaineers climbing atop the PSAC.
12 Tusculum (5-1) Pioneers chugging through the SAC.
13 Winona State (6-1) Warrior bounced back in fine fashion.
14 Catawba (5-1) Indians lone loss is to I-AA Wofford.
15 Mesa State (5-1) Mavs are having a fantastic season.
16 Indiana, PA (5-1) Indians felt the sting of a competitive PSAC.
17 North Dakota (5-1) The Sioux can still make a stand in the NCC.
18 Southern Arkansas (4-2) Muleriders back on their fighting feet.
19 Tarleton State (4-2) Texans took the whipping stick to I-AA Sam Houston.
20 Central Missouri (5-1) Mules found out there are no time outs in MIAA play.
21 Northwest Missouri State (4-2) Bears bouncing back into lethal form.
22 Southeastern Oklahoma (5-1) Savages are in the Lone Star mix.
23 Emporia State (5-1) Hornets will need to get their sting back quickly.
24 Edinboro (4-2) Scots did some plundering at IUP's expense.
25 Central Washington (3-2) Wildcats still have a chance to make a run in the West.
26 Nebraska-Omaha (5-2)

[JBB]

Look at the hit UNO took.

[Bisonguy]

That's the one thing I like about the Dopke poll. If someone doesn't perform, they aren't afraid to drop them unlike some other polls (ex. NWMSU on the D2football poll) more than four or five spots.

[BisonFan]

What's the scoop on Texas A&M Kingsville?

[Tatanka]

Tatanka, bad news is NDSU was ranked WAAAAAAY ahead of Delta State when NDSU got sent down to Delta State.

Indeed we were. But we were screwed from the get-go. I'll never forget riding the fan bus back from Omaha and someone bellowing out "we're going to Mississippi". What a crock. Why the NCAA D-2 powers that be would award a team with a kitty litter field and 3000 fans on a good day a home game over a guaranteed 19000+ at the FargoDome is totally beyond me.

An interesting side note would be who represented the NCC (from the administrative point of view) that year? If I'm not mistaken it was the man with two first names up to the north.

[Bisonguy]

NEVER, EVER trust anyone with two first names. ;D

[Tatanka]

Or anyone that looks like this: http://www.fightingsioux.com/info/administration/images/rthomas.jpg

[cbline]

Regarding the Delta State game: If I remember correctly, Delta hosted the game because they were rated higher in their regional ranking than the Bison were that year. The Bison were #4 in the Midwest and pulled off the two wins, but the goofy rules gave the home game to the team with the higher region rank, regardless of national rank.

[NDSU_grad]

I think under that old system, it didn't take into account a "quality" loss. Our only loss that year was to a very good UNO team, while Delta State lost to one of the Arkansas teams I think. So when the committee looked at records against ranked opponents, Delta State was undefeated while we had one loss. If I am wrong about this someone please correct me.

[tony]

NDSU went to Delta State because of politics. The excuses were nothing more than shoddy rationalizations.

What's more, I think NDSU got screwed by the people who should have had our backs on this.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Since NDSU is moving to D1AA and leaving D2, i am sure we will get screwed again when it comes to setting the locations for the playoff games. The politics are not with us this year at all.

[BisonMav]

I could see them sending the Bison to Tusculum even though NDSU won the head to head.

[NDSU_grad]

Tony,
I completely agree with you. I think that was the rationale the committee tried to use. Since we got all those "underserved" (yeah right) home playoff games in the 80's, they figured turnabout was fair play.

[Bisonguy]

Regarding the Delta State game: *If I remember correctly, Delta hosted the game because they were rated higher in their regional ranking than the Bison were that year. *The Bison were #4 in the Midwest and pulled off the two wins, but the goofy rules gave the home game to the team with the higher region rank, regardless of national rank.

Nope, Delta State only made the playoffs because the #4 team, Tuskegee, doesn't participate in the playoffs and forfeited their spot. Delta State was the #5 seed in the South Region.

[blitzer]

Nope, Delta State only made the playoffs because the #4 team, Tuskegee, doesn't participate in the playoffs and forfeited their spot. Delta State was the #5 seed in the South Region.


Wrong... Tuskagee(10-0) was the #3 *team, Delta State(10-1) was the #4. #5 West Georgia made the playoffs because of Tuskagee's forfeit, and Delta State moved from the 4 seed to the 3 seed. #3 Delta State beat #2 Valdosta @ Delta State (because #2 Valdosta State didn't submit a bid to host) and then beat #1 seed Catawba @ Cat. Delta State then hosted the semi's because they were the higher seed (a #3 vs. the #4 NDSU Bison). If Delta State was the 4 seed then why didn't they play Catabwa in Round 1?

That was the year the Midwest region had 3 of the top 5 teams in the country (#1 NWMS, #3 UNO and #5 BISON OF NDSU) We ran through the Midwest's toughest but just got beat by a better team that was cruising through the playoffs.

cbline was right.

[Tatanka]

Well, reading the article in the Forum this week, it shows that using DII criteria, a Sioux win vs Crookston is worth more in the playoff picture than a Bison win at Montana. ::) Then again, the Cubs might go to the World Series, so anything's possible. What a world.

[blitzer]

HAHA!! Almost anything.. looks like the Cubs are going to finally show their true colors.. Wood is blowing it, 6-5 Marlins.

[Bisonguy]

blitzer,

Thanks for the correction.

[bisonaudit]

Blitzer's got the regional seeding right to the best of my recollection.

But all that says is that the whole regional system is bunk. Because Blitzer was also correct in stating that NDSU was ranked 5th in the Nation and ended up on the road against a lessor ranked opponent in pursuit of a National title.

Bottom line it's our own fault, and by that I mean the NCC. If we hadn't of ended played South Dakota (State?) for the National title back in the day, they never would have regionalized the playoffs and the system we're dealing with presently wouldn't exist.

I guess it's the price a conference pays for putting the best product on the field every year.

Women's basketball has a similar problem. No one thought it was fair that NDSU or UND got to play for the title at home every year. So now, in the name of fairness they play the championship game in an empty gym instead.

[JBB]

NDSU dominated D2 ball and the suck. Roger Thomas is a great enemy of NDSU and during his years of frustration not only worked against us in the conference, his annual winter meeting formal complaints were legendary, but also on the national and region division committees. Make no mistake about this und and D2 are no friends of NDSU.