Lennon on Sports talk

[KTF]

I heard but only a portion of the sports talk on WDAY tonight. I heard Lennon say that the sioux's lose to Mesa State will actually account for more points towards playoff seating then the Bison's lose to UC-Davis. I am confused, I thought losing to a D-1AA team gave you more points even if they are under .500? Can somebody explain how and why this is? I thought losing to Mesa State would be worse but.... Lennon also said that the selection committee can choose a team not based on their record but instead on the "strength of the schedule". If that is the case what is the point in scheduling Crookston, Newberry, and Mesa State?

[BisonFan]

Check out the most recent fan talk section on BisonInsider ( http://www.bisoninsider.com ). Its very funny and true with good use of sarcasm!

[Bisonguy]

KTF,

There are about seven or eight criteria that are used for playoff selection, with none receiving more weight than the other. If Mesa State stays above .750, the loss to Mesa would be worth one more point than the loss to a I-AA. If Mesa State ends up between .500-.750, the loss would be worth one point less than a loss to a I-AA. BUT I-AA and D2 games are considered seperately in other criteria so a loss to a D2 could affect a team more in one of the other critera. I have completely confused myself, and probably everyone else. Somebody please post the D2 playoff selection critera again. ??? ;D ::)

[Bisonguy]

Here's the link I was looking for-D2 Playoff Selection Critera (http://www.d2football.com/Notebooks/National/)

[Tatanka]

Geez, I can't imagine that D1-AA has anything worse than this jumbled mess. Let's hope this is the last year we have to even look at this silliness.

Again I'll say it would be absolutely pathetic to reward the Susies for loading up on powder puffs at the beginning of the year.

[Bisonguy]

I-AA actually gives 8 autobids to select conference champs and 8 at-large bids (which can be somewhat biased). It's a lot better than what D2 has.

[KTF]

Thanks for the clarification.

I remember seeing the point system on the board before but wasn't sure which post. When I heard Lennon talking on the radio I thought he was BSing everybody but I guess it is true. Guess we will have to wait until the end of the season to see how it plays out!

[JBB]

D2 has used an abused criteria so much, especially in awarding home field, Delta State being the last insult to NDSU anyway, that having a confusing and arbitrary system allowing for "interpretation" is not suprising. The new system is designed to keep D2 teams playing D2 teams, and to assure weaker teams that they will have "big" games. The increase in playoff spots is to assure all teams that may be thinking about jumping that they will have a spot in the lineup.

[99Bison]

First off, I have been following this message board quite a bit this year, and I have to say that it is great. So thanks to everyone.

I just signed up for an account, and this is my first post. :) I just had to share the email I received from the NCAA after inquiring about the Delta State game at that time...

After getting this and another discussion at the time the basis was that we were ranked lower(4?) in our region than they were in theirs (3?).

---------------------------------------------------
To Whom It May Concern:

The following is in response to the numerous e-mail messages that I have
received from North Dakota State University football fans regarding why
North Dakota State is not hosting the 2000 NCAA Division II Football
Championship semifinal-round contest with Delta State University. I
appreciate all of your thoughts on this matter, and I can tell that all of
you have a deep passion not only for North Dakota State, but for the overall
Division II Football Championship.

After talking earlier today with the chair of the Division II Football
Committee, he has authorized me to send you this response on behalf of the
committee to inform you of the stated criteria in the 2000 Divisions II and
III Football Championships Handbook that was used to determine the
semifinal-round hosts.

The host institutions for semifinal competition shall be determined after
quarterfinal competition, using seeding based on the selection criteria and
the Division II site-selection criteria.

Regarding the selection criteria, teams will be selected based upon
legislation outlined in NCAA Bylaw 31 (won-lost record; strength of
schedule; and eligibility and availability of student-athletes). In
addition, the Division II Football Committee has received approval from the
Division II Championships Committee to consider the following when
evaluating teams' won-lost record and strength of schedule:

1. Primary Criteria (in no specific order)

Head-to-head competition.
Common opponents.

2. Secondary Criteria (in no specific order)

Conference standing.
Late-season performance (last four games).
Opponents' season record.
Records against ranked teams based upon last regional ranking.
Division II won-lost record in region.

In addition, the following are the Division II criteria for regional site
determination. The top-seeded team, as determined by the governing sports
committee, shall be provided the opportunity to host first-round,
quarterfinal and semifinal competition, provided the specific criteria that
have been developed by the governing sports committee have been met as well
as the following general site selection criteria:

1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary
accommodations;
2. Revenue potential (e.g., a financial guarantee or guideline that
ensures fiscal responsibility and is appropriate for the particular event,
as recommended by the governing sports committee and approved by the
Championships Committee); and
3. Attendance history potential.

Please note that the NCAA does not release a national Division II football
poll. Any outside organization that releases a national poll has no bearing
on the NCAA selection process. The NCAA only releases regional rankings
throughout the regular season.

The Division II Football Committee awards playoff sites based on the stated
criteria above. After reviewing all of the criteria, the Committee decided
to award Delta State the opportunity to host this semifinal-round contest.

Please note that I will not respond to any further correspondence regarding
this matter.

I hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,

Randy L. Buhr
Assistant Director of Championships
The National Collegiate Athletic Association

[JBB]

I cant remember for sure, but I think Tuskgee was ranked 4th and Delta 5. When Tuskgee pulled out of the playoffs Delta was moved up. At any rate I believe Delta was moved up a notch because of the Tuskgee withdrawl. I dont know how we stacked up according to the rest of the criteria but I believe this was one of the big reason that is never mentioned for the NDSU move out of D2. Over the years it hasnt been that freiendly of a spot.

[tony]

The host institutions for semifinal competition shall be determined after quarterfinal competition, using seeding based on the selection criteria and the Division II site-selection criteria.

That's the problem in a nutshell. If the seeds were fixed and unchangeable before the playoffs started, they should have published them then. They didn't. Why not? My belief is that the semi-final home site is awarded using politics and all the criteria they supply is so much window dressing.

[Bisonguy]

1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary
accommodations;
2. Revenue potential (e.g., a financial guarantee or guideline that
ensures fiscal responsibility and is appropriate for the particular event,
as recommended by the governing sports committee and approved by the
Championships Committee); and
3. Attendance history potential.

Hmmmm..... Let's do a head to head comparison

1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary
accommodations;

DSU- Muddy field, kitty litter, outdoor stadium, possum stew for concessions, population of 13,000
NDSU-Indoor field, no kitty litter, no fried okra stands for concessions, indoor plumbing, population of 90,000

Advantage-NDSU

2. Revenue potential (e.g., a financial guarantee or guideline that
ensures fiscal responsibility and is appropriate for the particular event,
as recommended by the governing sports committee and approved by the
Championships Committee); and

Advantage-Draw Under the NCAA's version of welfare, a school only needs to provide a few thousand dollars to qualify. If they actually wanted to make money, NDSU would have the advantage.


3. Attendance history potential

One school has averaged over 12,500 over the past ten seasons and has consistently been one of the top schools for attendance. The other has not.

Advantage-NDSU

[Bisonfan1]

Thank you 99 Bison for sharing that, and good points Bisonguy, I care not to remember that much about that crock of - - - - that took place that year, I do remember the post game interviews of "how does it feel to be going home for a playoff game" and then to have that crap happens just burns me up. I know one thing, The Bison will run the board the rest of this season and we need to fill the stands for the last 2 games, Then we may just be all able to be together at the FargoDome after the 15th of November!! The March Is On !!!!

[BisonFan]

I seem to remember Delta State having a 165 lb starting linebacker that was knocking NDSU's *260+ TE (what did Tangen and Peck weigh? *Weren't they more like 275-280?) tightends off of their feet (decleating them). *That shouldn't happen. *Delta State was a lot better than some on this board are giving them credit for. *I'm not saying NDSU wouldn't have won it in the dome, but the whole kitty litter field excuse is kind of sad. Both teams had to play on the same field. *The fact is NDSU lost that day and that is the past. *Lets look forward to the future and stop making excuses for what happened in the past.

[Bisonguy]

I'm not using a kitty litter excuse for the play of the team. I'm using it as a point that DSU should not have hosted a semifinal game. The condition of the field is just another reason why they should not hosted. Maybe one of the semifinal games this year will be in the Pamida parking lot in Bemidji. They can paint some lines and put up field goal posts and it will be a championship caliber surface.

[BisonFan]

I'm not disagreeing with you NDSU should have hosted it. I'm just not going to blame the loss on playing at Delta State's Kitty Litter field. The truth is a 165 LB linebacker knocked the snot out of the nostrills of guys from NDSU twice his size. They deserved to win with that being the case!

[Tatanka]

Maybe one of the semifinal games this year will be in the Pamida parking lot in Bemidji. They can paint some lines and put up field goal posts and it will be a championship caliber surface. ;D ;D ;D

And if they would put a roof over it, it would be the Alerus Center. :D

Seriously, though, I don't think for a second that the game being played in kitty litter was the only reason for a Bison loss. They lost to a great team. It was clearly evident, however, that the crappiness of the field was part of what decided the game, and there's no way that should be OK. Whatever jackass (or group of jackasses) decided (even using the BS criteria listed above) that Delta State should have hosted a championship game should be shot with one of their own 'coon rifles.


1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary
accommodations;

DSU- Muddy field, kitty litter, outdoor stadium, possum stew for concessions, population of 13,000
NDSU-Indoor field, no kitty litter, no fried okra stands for concessions, indoor plumbing, population of 90,000


You forgot all about the half-in-the-bag pickup drivers with their confederate flags and coon dogs hanging out the back. That's got to be worth something. What better to promote the NCAA Division II than kitty litter, sand, mud, and a drunk coon dog?

Maybe that's where it's all headed. Enjoy yourselves, Susies! It's all yours.

[JBB]

The idea that a terrible field is ok because both teams have to play on it is absurd. Its just like the old weather argument. Sure they both play in the same conditions but how those conditions affect a teams style of play, or when the conditions become a factor for each team is not the same.

If you fumble a wet ball on your one yd line and they get their mistake at midfield the impact is different. If its raining and your a running team playing a passing team the impact is different. If you never have to punt against a stiff wind but the other team has to punt twice against it the impact of the weather is not the same.

If your primarily a running team and are stuck between the hatch marks where there is no traction and your opponent is primarily a passing team that can get receivers to the sidelines where there is still some turf and traction the conditions dont have an equal impact.

When you can start defenders on the good turf, like a 165 lb LB, and the offensive player, like a 260 lb TE has to start in kitty litter, the LB has a huge advantage and can look real good.

The bottom line is this, Delta may have had the better team, especially since we were down to a third string QB, but its hard to tell. The field simply shouldnt have been used for a game of that magnitude. The NCC should have stepped in and moved the venue. Northwest Missouri State lost a home playoff game for that exact reason.

The corallary argument is of course, Football is best played inside. Weather and field conditions should not be a factor in a game that is based on athleticism, teamwork and game plan.

[Bisonfan1]

It wasnt the fact that we got beat that really burned me up, it was the fact that we got robbed of a home playoff game, sure I was upset about getting beat, but when everyone thought the game was coming home and then the rug gets pulled out is what hurt the most. I think if we fill the stands the final 2 games, and the team keeps winning, we will have our home playoff game. If someone can provide a contact on the playoff selection commitee I want to be ready to e-mail, call etc. towards the end of the season if things are looking like a toss-up of where the game could end up. We simply cannot allow a farce like that to happen again.

[JBB]

NDSU isnt going to get a home playoff game no matter what you do, unless it is almost if not completly impossible for the "honorable" committee to shut us out. There is a lot of resentment towards NDSU in division 2 and in the NCC. Now that we have left its even stronger among certain NCC schools. Look at the suck. There are others.

[BisonMav]

Resentment is a good word. That is the word I have been looking for. UND does have a lot of resentment towards NDSU over the Division I move. :-*