UNO screws us

[Bisonfan1234]

UNO had the game won...all they had to do was hit a 30 yard kick and it basically was over. But instead they miss it, give UND momentem, and UND goes down and then kicks a 40 yarder to win.

.... God damnit....

[Bisonguy]

UNO probably would have vaulted ahead of NDSU in the regional rankings if UNO won. I think this was good for NDSU, and now the Bison may be able to avenge their loss.

[Bisonfan1234]

Yeah they probably would have vaulted right over us with their weaker non-conference schedule and losing to us 34-7..... ::)

Now we have to hope that either P State, E State, or W State loses.

I just looked at the schedules, E state plays some crap team...they won't lose and w state beat sw state by a bunch. However, P state plays MWSC, they might lose...but i can't find anywhere that has a score so we can see what's happening. If P state loses, then i think we might have a shot of cracking the top 4...and if that happens then if we win out we shouldn't leave.

[KTF]

I say we screwed ourselves! We had our chance to beat UND!!

[Bisonfan1234]

Obviously.

But UNO had an even better shot than us. Good job you moron mavs.

[Bisonguy]

Yeah they probably would have vaulted right over us with their weaker non-conference schedule and losing to us 34-7..... *::)

Now we have to hope that either P State, E State, or W State loses.

I just looked at the schedules, E state plays some crap team...they won't lose and w state beat sw state by a bunch. However, P state plays MWSC, they might lose...but i can't find anywhere that has a score so we can see what's happening. If P state loses, then i think we might have a shot of cracking the top 4...and if that happens then if we win out we shouldn't leave.


Actually, their SSI is probably higher than ours. Remember, UND's win over Crookston was worth one more point than NDSU's win over Montana. UNO had two wins over UMC types of schools, and their two losses were both to DII schools with good records. NDSU had a loss to a non-qualifying I-AA school, which counts the same as a DIII opponent.

Remember that Winona was ranked ahead of Concordia St. Paul when they had the same number of losses, but CSP beat Winona. The rankings don't make sense. ::)

[BisonFan]

If you want to be the best, you have to play and beat the best. That's why I'm glad to see NDSU leaving D2. If UND is content with beating Crookston, Newberry, losing to Mesa State so be it. If that's worth more than beating Montana and playing Cal-Davis tough, and playing UND into OT on the road before losing, D2 is not where the Bison belong. They have higher goals set for themselves. Just looking at UND's schedule they have been getting by on the slimmest of margins in the conference portion of their schedule. Maybe playoff selection criteria should include margin of victory too!

[Bisonfan1234]

If you want to be the best, you have to play and beat the best. *That's why I'm glad to see NDSU leaving D2. *If UND is content with beating Crookston, Newberry, losing to Mesa State so be it. *If that's worth more than beating Montana and playing Cal-Davis tough, and playing UND into OT on the road before losing, D2 is not where the Bison belong. *They have higher goals set for themselves. *Just looking at UND's schedule they have been getting by on the slimmest of margins in the conference portion of their schedule. *Maybe playoff selection criteria should include margin of victory too! * *

I think the BCS system does include margin of victory somehow with their "quality win" catogory...but not really sure how that works.

[Bisonguy]

Let's finally look at the SSI objectively:

NDSU
Tusculum(win at home over .700) -13 points
Montana (win over qualifying I-AA)-8 points
UC Davis (loss to non qualifying I-AA) 1 point
South Dakota State(win at home over .500)11 points
Minn. State - Mankato(win on road sub.500) 10 points
Nebraska-Omaha (win at home over .700) 13 points
North Dakota (loss on road over .700) 8 points
Augustana College (win on road sub.500) 10 points
South Dakota (win at home sub .500) 9 points *
St. Cloud State *
Concordia (St. Paul, MN)

non-conf- 7.333 (with CSP added as a W over .700 it would increase to 8.75)
full schedule- 9.222
Edit- My calculation on UCD was wrong, it's worth 6 points-NDSU's SSI for the season would be 9.77


UNO


Nebraska-Kearney(win on road over.500 )12 points
Indiana (PA) *(loss on road over .700 ) 8 points
Minn. State Moorhead (win at home under .500 )9 points
Western Washington (win at home under .500) 9 points
South Dakota (win on road under .500) 10 points
South Dakota State (win at home over .500) 11 points
North Dakota State (loss on road over .700)8 points
Augustana College (win on road under .500)10 points
St. Cloud State(win at home over.500)11points
North Dakota (loss on road over .700) 8 points
Minn. State - Mankato

nonconf. - 9.5
full schedule- 9.6


I have seen way too much of the old SSI quoted around here (myself included) This is the new SSI that they use this year:

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 on the road = 14 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 at home = 13 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than .500 on the road = 12 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than .500 at home = 11 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below on the road = 10 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below at home = 9 points

Win versus a team from a Division I or Division I-AA automatic-qualifying conference, or a Division I-AA independent opponent = 8 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 on the road = 8 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 at home = 7 points

Loss versus a team from a Division I or Division I-AA automatic-qualifying conference, or a Division I-AA independent opponent = 6 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater
than .500 on the road = 5 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than .500 home = 4 points

Win versus a team from a Division I-AA non-automatic-qualifying conference = 4 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below the road = 3 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below home = 2 points

Win versus a non-Division I or Division II opponent = 2 points *

Loss verses a team from a Division I-AA non-automatic-qualifying conference = 1 point

Loss versus a non-Division I or Division II opponent = 1 point

[airmail]

If UND is content with beating Crookston, Newberry, losing to Mesa State so be it.


Don't feel left out, we're content in beating you, too.

[TheByzantine]

"Screw" and "damn"? Not nice! The Bisons are so nifty!

[wfduck]

Is Newberry crappy? Isn't Mesa putting together a decent year? I hate the Sewage, but help me out. They are not on a total cupcake diet are they?

[NDSU_grad]

Let's finally look at the SSI objectively:

NDSU
Tusculum(win at home over .700) -13 points
Montana (win over qualifying I-AA)-8 points
UC Davis (loss to non qualifying I-AA) 1 point
South Dakota State(win at home over .500)11 points
Minn. State - Mankato(win on road sub.500) 10 points
Nebraska-Omaha (win at home over .700) 13 points
North Dakota (loss on road over .700) 8 points
Augustana College (win on road sub.500) 10 points
South Dakota (win at home sub .500) 9 points *
St. Cloud State *
Concordia (St. Paul, MN)

non-conf- 7.333 (with CSP added as a W over .700 it would increase to 8.75)
full schedule- 9.222

UNO


Nebraska-Kearney(win on road over.500 )12 points
Indiana (PA) *(loss on road over .700 ) 8 points
Minn. State Moorhead (win at home under .500 )9 points
Western Washington (win at home under .500) 9 points
South Dakota (win on road under .500) 10 points
South Dakota State (win at home over .500) 11 points
North Dakota State (loss on road over .700)8 points
Augustana College (win on road under .500)10 points
St. Cloud State(win at home over.500)11points
North Dakota (loss on road over .700) 8 points
Minn. State - Mankato

nonconf. - 9.5
full schedule- 9.6


I have seen way too much of the old SSI quoted around here (myself included) This is the new SSI that they use this year:

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 on the road = 14 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 at home = 13 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than .500 on the road = 12 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than .500 at home = 11 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below on the road = 10 points

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below at home = 9 points

Win versus a team from a Division I or Division I-AA automatic-qualifying conference, or a Division I-AA independent opponent = 8 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 on the road = 8 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 at home = 7 points

Loss versus a team from a Division I or Division I-AA automatic-qualifying conference, or a Division I-AA independent opponent = 6 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater
than .500 on the road = 5 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than .500 home = 4 points

Win versus a team from a Division I-AA non-automatic-qualifying conference = 4 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below the road = 3 points

Loss versus a Division II opponent with a record of .500 or below home = 2 points

Win versus a non-Division I or Division II opponent = 2 points *

Loss verses a team from a Division I-AA non-automatic-qualifying conference = 1 point

Loss versus a non-Division I or Division II opponent = 1 point


Not trying to dispute your numbers, but why were we ranked ahead of UNO prior to this week if our SSI is so low. I'm not positive, but I think you may be evaluating UC-Davis wrong. I've heard discussions that they're listed in DII in some statistical categories. Can anybody confirm exactly what their situation is?

[NDSU_grad]

Is Newberry crappy? Isn't Mesa putting together a decent year? I hate the Sewage, but help me out. They are not on a total cupcake diet are they?

Newberry's horrible, and yes Mesa State is doing ok but the RMAC isn't exactly a power conference.

[BisonFan]

Don't feel left out, we're content in beating you, too.

That you did, in OT by the two hairs on your chinny chin chin. *The Sioux have pretty much been playing to the level of their oponent this whole season and getting by by thin margins in a majority of their games. *You did beat the Bison, yes, but I would still have to say the Bison with 2 losses on their season record to date have put together a much more impressive season than the Sioux. *Your AD has admitted he's content playing the Crookston's of DII because it helps you out more getting to the playoffs. *So, its not about challenging yourselves for the Sioux. Its about taking the easiest route possible to the playoffs. *That just diminishes the value of the DII championship which is why I'm glad the Bison are leaving those less lofty aspirations to those like the Sioux content to feast off the should be DIII and NAIA teams now in D2. *

[Bisonguy]

NDSU_Grad,

I might be ranking the UCD loss too low, I guess I took some interpretation there. They can fund up to 61 scholarships this year, are DII playoff ineligible, but their stats are recorded in the DII record books. I know they aren't even funding 36 scholies this year, but I would think that's the biggest qualifying factor there. If they are allowed to fund 61 scholies (36 DII + the 25 you can add per year), that wouldn't be a fair DII opponent. They also aren't in a I-AA playoff autobid conference. Some Davis fans earlier said they were considered a I-AA opponent for DII schools, and a DII opponent for I-AA schools this year.

I would say that NDSU was ranked ahead of UNO because of the head-head, but Winona being ranked ahead of CSP earlier throws that theory out the window. Unless the Winona AD is on the selection committee. Anybody know who is on the committee this year?

[Trainer]

UC-Davis is considered a I-AA opponent for DII schools, and a DII opponent for I-AA schools this year. All statistics are recorded as Division II statistics.

As for why NDSU's SSI was lower than UNO's, but yet NDSU was rated higher than UNO in the region rankings. The committee does not have to rely on the SSI totally. The committee is given subjective power to change or rearrange the order after ranking the team based on the SSI based on the other criteria. So no matter how you look at it..... the committee can still do what it wants and to WHO it wants. It's called politics.... All depends on which of the secondary criteria you make a decision based upon.

I know that the AD from NW Missouri State is the chairman of the Region and Gene Taylor is a committee member, but the other four members I'm not sure about (2 committee members from each conference).

[Bisonguy]

I thought SSI was just one of the criteria that's used, and they can put more importance on whatever criteria that they see more (politically) fit.

[iamabison]

The playoff picture isn't worth getting your panties in a bunch yet. Obviously, NDSU cannot pass UND in the regional rankings. But of the other 3 teams, they play a lot of "lose-able" games the next 2 weekends.

Next Weekend
Pitt St at Ctrl Missouri (Ctrl Miss is 8-1)
Winona vs Northern St. (NSU woodshedded UMD)
Weekend After That
Winona vs UM Duluth
Pitt St vs NW Missouri St (always a good game)
Emporia vs Ctrl Missouri

Who knows, if Central Missouri wins out, both PSU & ESU could be out and CMSU is in.

iamabison

[Bisonfan1234]

Yup, you gave the wrong point total for our loss to UC-Davis.

That loss is worth 6 points, not 1. UC-Davis is not in a conferences for D1AA football...so how can you say they were a "non-qualifying conferences D1AA opponent"? They ARE a D1AA independent...which a loss to is worth 6 points.

That brings our season average to 9.77. But, if UNO had won their average would have jumped to 10.2. So maybe it was for the better that they lost...maybe it wasn't.

I hope we win out (SCSU looks to be flopping late in the season).

** Also, i just checked and Pitt State anihilated MWSC...so it looks like we'll be number 5 for another week. I think our best bet is for either a Winona State or Pitt State loss (i'd much prefer Winona state because the NSIC doesn't deserve a play-off spot this year).

[met1990]

I don't think the UND win over UN-O hurts SU as much as everyone thinks it does. How does having a definite No. 1 in the NCC over a definite No. 2 hurt SU? If UND loses that game we have three teams tied for first. Yes, you can say "Hey, the Bison beat Montana!" but according to Regional rules that doesn't mean as much as pounding Minnesota-Crookston. Strength of schedule doesn't help SU. Now, Omaha is out of the picture. The key is in the MIAA (unless Duluth beats Winona). Pitt State has a couple games left. If everyone runs out then SU is probably done.
However, if you look at it this way- beating UMC means more than beating Montana, look at how many fans were at the USD game tonight, look at how USD basically gave up (kicking a field goal late in the first half when you have nothing to lose?). If there was a better reason for leaving D-II I'd honestly like to hear it.

[Bisonguy]

BisonFan1234,

Thanks for the correction, I thought it was a little low to only get one point. I just saw the "automatic-qualifying conference" and quit reading. ::)


I was just trying to state my opinion that UNO losing to UND was actually better for NDSU's playoff chances. If UNO would have won, who knows what criteria the committed would use. They may even have stated that UNO had more "mo" as they just had knocked off the #1 team, but NDSU had beat them earlier in the year and it didn't count as much. ???

All I know is if Winona gets in, and can barely beat a middle of the pack NCC team, it doesn't say much about the selection criteria.

[Bisonguy]

Doing some real quick calculations, it does look like it would be possible for NDSU to have a better SSI than Pitt State, even if both teams win out. Their win against NAIA Lincoln may come back to haunt them. That's only worth two points.

[Bisonfan1234]

BisonFan1234,

Thanks for the correction, I thought it was a little low to only get one point. I just saw the "automatic-qualifying conference" and quit reading. *::)


I was just trying to state my opinion that UNO losing to UND was actually better for NDSU's playoff chances. If UNO would have won, who knows what criteria the committed would use. They may even have stated that UNO had more "mo" as they just had knocked off the #1 team, but NDSU had beat them earlier in the year and it didn't count as much. *???

All I know is if Winona gets in, and can barely beat a middle of the pack NCC team, it doesn't say much about the selection criteria.

I think SDSU is better than their record indicates. Also, didn't they beat them like 30-0?

[Bisonguy]

30-23 at Winona.

[Bisonfan1234]

Oh..i thought it was like 30-0...but SDSU isn't that bad either.

They also beat MWSC .. which to me is an SDSU of the MIAA....i still don't think WSU deserves a play-off spot though.

[SDbison]

Any thoughts on the possibility that the Sioux have a letdown, or possibly some misfortune, against the Coyotes next week in South Dakota? Seems the Sioux have pushed the limit on winning games late. USD did put up some pretty big numbers (yards) against the Bison but could not get in the endzone due to some great Bison plays and some of their own mistakes. I just have a feeling the Sioux could lose next week and give the Bison a chance at a share of the NCC title. Of course, the Bison have to take care of their own game next week at St Cloud.

[Tatanka]

Would be nice, but somehow I doubt that this USD team has anything in them for an upset, even at home.

The D-II regional rankings and playoff picture is a complete sham. Really. It's so disheartening to see "power" teams load up on known powder puffs, beat the bejezzus out of them, and somehow that makes them better than teams that actually seek more even competition. Absurd. >:( Winona State ahead of the Bison. Absurd. >:( UND losing to the only non-conference team they played that was worth a damn, but still ranked #1. Absurd. >:( NDSU's only D-2 loss coming in overtime on the road to their arch-rival, and yet they're #5? Absurd. >:( >:(

Myself, I'll pay good money to see a good game. Sorry, vs. Crookston and vs. MSU-Moorhead don't qualify. (for that matter, vs. Mankato and vs. USD don't qualify, but hey, they're in the conference). Can't wait 'till next year.

Ok, I'm done now. :-X

[Bisonfan1234]

Any thoughts on the possibility that the Sioux have a letdown, or possibly some misfortune, against the Coyotes next week in South Dakota? *Seems the Sioux have pushed the limit on winning games late. *USD did put up some pretty big numbers (yards) against the Bison but could not get in the endzone due to some great Bison plays and some of their own mistakes. * I just have a feeling the Sioux could lose next week and give the Bison a chance at a share of the NCC title. *Of course, the Bison have to take care of their own game next week at St Cloud. *

You guys have a good offense. #3 is a very fast running back and #4 and #6 are both good receivers. Also you have a good line and a good, tall qb. I hope you can put up a bunch of points against UND and hopefully your D can hold. Good luck!

I don't think USD will win, however. Sorry...just being realistic.