ST. CLOUD REFS

[thundar94]

anyone else think we got hosed????

[Tuk]

I am not for sure, but I think these are the same guys that came to the FargoDome and called every penalty as "this way" or "that way"....anyone else catch this during the game. What kind of ref calls penalties as "this way" and "that way"?

As far as the hosed part, i think there were 2 crucial calls for the game that we should have got overturned: 1. the clear possession we had of the ball in the later 4th quarter when Sheppard (?) took the ball out of Heckendorf's hands before the whistle blew to end the play 2. Lack of a pass interference call on the last play of the game (both of these going by the play-by-play on the radio)....

Good effort in the second half tho....and I am satisfied with our record so far, because we have shown we ARE that good to be contenders for the playoffs after a losing season the year previous. If it wasn't for the screwball rules of NCAA Div II, we would still be in the playoff hunt....oh well, that's what DIAA is for.

[huskies679]

Don't forget to mention the 5 missed pass interference calls NDSU should have had. And if you can't beat a DII school how the hell are you going to beat a DIAA school. If your kicker could make an extra point you would have been the winners instead of leaving DII with a loss.

[89rabbit]

Don't forget to mention the 5 missed pass interference calls NDSU should have had. *And if you can't beat a DII school how the hell are you going to beat a DIAA school. *If your kicker could make an extra point you would have been the winners instead of leaving DII with a loss.

huskies679,

Don't you read the papers or have a TV. *NDSU has already beat a I-AA school. *They beat the # 4 ranked Montana Griz at their place. *So that is how the hell they are going to beat a I-AA team. * ::)

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

P.S. *It was fun taking you dogs to the pound last week! *;D *Thanks for helping make it a GREAT Hobo Day!

[huskies679]

Ok I stand corrected but they also lost to a DII team that won make the playoffs. SDSU did not have a stellar year either. So if a Hobo day wvictory over SCSU made your year thats just great because our season was a disaster! And just because SDSU needs NDSU in your move to IAA you dont 't need to kiss their butts. GO NDSU, GO SDSU, whats that. They hate you and dont need you. I got that from my uncle who is a Team Maker.

[Bisonguy]

There was another fumble that should have gone for the Bison, as well. I taped the game, and it was clearly a fumble. NDSU recovered, but the ball was awarded back to SCSU, just as the other one.

The refs were by no means stellar, but NDSU had opportunities to put the game away, but didn't get it done .

[BisonMav]

author=huskies679 date=11/09/03 at 03:36:21]Ok I stand corrected but they also lost to a DII team that won make the playoffs. *SDSU did not have a stellar year either. *So if a Hobo day wvictory over SCSU made your year thats just great because our season was a disaster! *And just because SDSU needs NDSU in your move to IAA you dont 't need to kiss their butts. *GO NDSU, GO SDSU, whats that. *They hate you and dont need you. *I got that from my uncle who is a Team Maker.
The SDSU grads that I know are good people, and have respect for NDSU, and the feeling is mutual from me. I also work with people from SCSU and the same mutual respect is there. The only school we all mutually like to smack is UND. SDSU because of basketball, SCSU because of hockey.

Prior to the beginning of the year, most Bison fans were predicting 7-4 or 8-3 records, with possible losses to Montana, UC-Davis and SCSU. The early win over Montana changed a lot of expectations, and new predictions arose. I myself went from predicting 8-3 to 10-1. In the big picture, coming back from 2-8 to 7-4 or 8-3 is a great turnaround.

I realize there are a few SCSU fans that don't like NDSU. That's not my problem. Trying to stir up trouble between NDSU and SDSU is a evidence of one fans resentment of NDSU and SDSU leaving the NCC for I-AA.

I-AA all the way. ;D

Go NDSU ;D
Go SDSU ;D

[Bisonfan1]

No I cant do a better job refing a football game, but that was one of the worst refed football games I have ever been to. Bisonguy if you watch your tape closley, (if you care to) You might have captured on a couple occassions when a ref went to grab a flag, had his hand on the flag and was looking at the other refs to see if they were going to throw, and when they didnt, he didnt throw his. Im glad you saw on tape what we saw live as far as the fumbles. Correct me if Im wrong, wasnt our reciever pushed out of the endzone BEFORE the ball reached him, it sure looked like a catchable ball to us from our vantage point.

[BisonWarrior]

huskie679

Your uncle does not speak for all Bison Supporters!

[Bisonfan1234]

C'mon guys....blaming the game on the refs?

If we had thrown that pass a little better, or ran a better route, or if *we* had done wwhatever better...then there would be no need to blame the refs.

Good job to the refs for going out there in the blistering cold and trying to call the game as they saw it.

[Bisonfan1]

Were not blaming the loss solely on the refs, the refs calls and lack of calls stunk - PERIOD. Thier performance should be reviewed without question. Were you there Bison1234, did you watch the game on TV ??? If you saw the game, you should certainly know what we are talking about.

[Tuk]

I wouldn't blame the refs for the whole game, but the officiating was not really great. I think the refs missed a few penalties during the game that could have won the game if they were reversed. BUT, NDSU did shoot themselves in the foot multiple times which costed precious yardage when it was needed and as such are at fault for the loss.

And to the Husky fan and the rest of the DII fans who can't believe NDSU and SDSU going DIAA with no national championship under our belts I have this to say: how many championships do you have under your belt in college hockey? Whats that? Zero championships? So why are you in DI hockey? NDSU fans feel the same about football as you guys do about hockey, and we feel that although we are not leaving as the victors of the NCC, the team made a good reversal of last years disasterous season and renewed our name in DII sports. SDSU is a fine program also, and their programs will do well in DI athletics. If we didn't like SDSU, i am sure all the NDSU fans, alum, and teammakers would be pushing the AD to drop the Bunnies from our running into a conference, but we like them and feel that an NDSU/SDSU package is a good thing. Have fun in DII, and good luck in hockey! :)

[Bisonguy]

The refs also missed a lot of offsides calls on the SCSU kickoffs. The player just to the right of the kicker was routinely 2 yards past the ball when it was kicked.

It was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen. Way too few holding calls for both sides(probably evens out).

The most effort put forth by the officiating crew was them sprinting off the field right after the game. ;D ;D

[BisonFan]

The Bison lost. Leave it at that. Refs make mistakes every game and the mistakes go both ways. Its sad that this excuse making/finger pointing starts the second the Bison lose. Where are critics of the Refs afer every Bison win? This is excuse making and it is sad. Refs make mistakes both ways. Refs make mistakes in games the Bison win. Stop blaming a loss on the Refs.

[Bisonfan1234]

Should i call the waaaambulence you guys? C'mon....

I'm mad that we lost too...but obviously the refs had nothing to do with the loss. It's our own fault that we performed only just good enough where it put the ref in a position to make a judgement call. And beyond all of that....don't you think part of the reason they call it home field advantage is because they are going to give the benifit of a doubt to the home team? C'mon guys get real...no excuses.

[Bisonguy]

BisonFan,

Did you see the game?

I think most Bison fans will aknowledge that the Bison missed opportunities to win the game. The Bison lost. The refs try to do their best. I feel that they didn't even try this game. They looked like a bunch of clowns.

[BisonFan]

BisonFan,

Did you see the game?

I think most Bison fans will aknowledge that the Bison missed opportunities to win the game. The Bison lost. The refs try to do their best. I feel that they didn't even try this game. They looked like a bunch of clowns.

I think you need to take a lesson on how bias influences perception.

[Bisonguy]

I know that my views are biased. If I didn't have the game on tape and rewatched some of the calls, I wouldn't have commented on it. The emotion of the game can distort perception (i.e. the first pass interference call all Bison fans wanted, when it was a tipped ball).

In your land of objectivity, were there any calls or no calls that were in favor of SCSU?

[BisonFan]

There were calls that went both ways. I can't say I saw them all because I'm a Bison Fan and I know that fact makes me biased toward the Bison and less likely to see calls that went against SCSU. This sport fan bias effect has been proven in academia. That's enough on this. I'm going to say it again. The Bison lost this game. Don't blame the refs for it.

[Bisonguy]

BisonFan,

Where have I blamed the refs for the loss? I haven't. I have stated repeatedly that the Bison had plenty of opportunities to win the game, but didn't. I can think of at least five plays that could have possibly sealed a Bison victory, but the plays( not calls or penalties) weren't made by the Bison.

The refs didn't win the game for SCSU, or lose the game for NDSU. I just feel they called a bad game. That's all, nothing else.

[BisonFan]

I'm making a comment on the whole thread, not just what you have been saying. This thread was started to blame the refs for the loss. That was not the case.

[gobison]

I was at the game on Saturday and even though I would never balme the refs for a win or loss, the fact remains that the officiating was horrible. Two instances fumbles were signaled the Bison way and then given back to St. Cloud. How does that work? And the last paly was Blatent interference. Sure, there are some missed calls, but how do you let that one at the end go when such playoff impilcations are at stake. Good job refs? (BFan1234) ?? Good job Bison for coming back the way they did after halftime and making for a great comeback. It's hard to keep the momentum going when the team isn't awarded the change of possesion (twice!) - How would the game have been different if the Bison had gotten the ball then. Yeah, good job refs for calling the game as they seen it. Trouble is they were standing right there and didn't see it - at least after they changed their minds -- signaled the Bison way and then signaled back the other way. Maybe if THEY had done "whatever" better, this post wouldn't be an issue. Good riddance DII.

[Bisonfan1234]

Unless you also provide examples of bad calls that should have gone the way of SCSU but didn't, it looks like you're blaming the refs for the loss.

Maybe they did do a bad job overall for both teams....but we always could have played better.

[Bisonguy]

Bisonfan1234,

That's part of the problem. It seemed one-sided. There may have been a holding or illegal block call missed on the Bison, but there was a lot of calls that were just bad (i.e. fumbles). They weren't just five or ten yard things, but turnovers. Then there were the basic calls that were missed- SCSU offsides on kickoffs, and a defensive offsides in the Fourth, where the nose of the ball was touching the 40, and the SCSU DE had his hand across the 40. If an officiating staff wants to be looser on inteference and holding, that's fine. If they can no longer call offsides on one team, but can call it on the other, that's just bad officiating.

[BisonFan]

Trend on this board:

Bison Lose, refs get blamed.
Bison Win, Bison get Kudos.
Where's the blame for missed calls when the Bison win?
Think about it. Blaming the refs is making excuses.

Refs miss calls both ways in every game. Its all part of the game.

[Bisonfan1]

Again, Bisonfan1234, were you at, or did you watch the game on TV?, homefield advantage, give me a break, officials calls should have nothing to do with home field advantage, what are you talking about. Any Bison win or Bison loss this year, this WAS the worst officiated game ive seen this year, or in recent past years. Even if the Bison would have won the game, this thread would probably still be here. So if you did not SEE the game, respect the comments of the rest of us that were there or watched on TV, because we know what we are talking about.

[Bisonfan1234]

FYI...i didn't make that last post you're referring to.

You still didn't give me examples of calls the refs missed that were good for NDSU, bad for SCSU.

If the refs truely did have a bad game then i will only believe it if they missed for both sides.

Examples!

[89rabbit]

Ok I stand corrected but they also lost to a DII team that won make the playoffs. *SDSU did not have a stellar year either. *So if a Hobo day wvictory over SCSU made your year thats just great because our season was a disaster! *And just because SDSU needs NDSU in your move to IAA you dont 't need to kiss their butts. *GO NDSU, GO SDSU, whats that. *They hate you and dont need you. *I got that from my uncle who is a Team Maker.

huskie679,

First let me start by saying we don't need NDSU. *However it is in both schools interest to work together, and personally I can't think of a better school to partner up with. *That being said lets talk football, most of SCSU seasons have been disasters at least as far as beating SDSU go. *The Jackrabbits lead the all time series 25-8. *:o *I am sure the Bison have a similar (if not greater lead over you all time). *You should be thrilled seeing us leave. *It will give you a chance to be successful in the NCC and D-II. *Have fun puppies.

Go SDSU!
Go NDSU!

D-I/I-AA all the way! * ;D

[BisonBizzo]

And the 'good boy' award goes to BisonFan... come on, it is ok to talk about bad calls on this message board... Everyone should know refs make mistakes... And it is ok to state both ways... Let's not fight over it... Listening on the radio it sounded like some calls were not right, or the refs were having a tough time making the correct decision. I have listened to espn analysts make more bold statements about refs then I have ever seen on this board... You should have heard Miami fans after last years Fiesta Bowl

[Tuk]

Wow, a few observations about the game explode into inner-fighting among the fans. I want to make my position clear to the folks on this board:

A) I am not blaming the loss on the refs, just saying their choices on the penalties/gameplay hampered the Bison's momentum and/or their attempt to get something going during the game.

B) I don't think that the Bison played as well as they could have which goes without saying. Craig and Co. just couldn't do the job, and we lost accordingly. :( The Bison should shrug it off and move on; the Bison should finish the game with a dignified win against C-St.Pl. and go out of the NCC with a good season finish.

C) I think this thread was more to do with commenting on the officiating, not blaming the officials for the loss. Although, I still wonder about the "this way" and "that way" when penalties were announced. Still don't understand that... ???

Good luck to the Bison next Saturday, and hopefully you work the problems of the last game out before playing C-St. Pl.

[BisonBizzo]

Tuk,

Well said!

[Bisonguy]

Tuk,

I agree. Very well stated.

[dnk]

huskies679
Either you, or your Bison Team-Maker Uncle, tells
juvenile fibs. Bison Team-Makers do not sit around
talking about how much they hate SDSU.

[BisonFan]

Wow, a few observations about the game explode into inner-fighting among the fans. *I want to make my position clear to the folks on this board:

A) I am not blaming the loss on the refs, just saying their choices on the penalties/gameplay hampered the Bison's momentum and/or their attempt to get something going during the game.

B) I don't think that the Bison played as well as they could have which goes without saying. *Craig and Co. just couldn't do the job, and we lost accordingly. :( *The Bison should shrug it off and move on; the Bison should finish the game with a dignified win against C-St.Pl. and go out of the NCC with a good season finish.

C) I think this thread was more to do with commenting on the officiating, not blaming the officials for the loss. *Although, I still wonder about the "this way" and "that way" when penalties were announced. *Still don't understand that... ???

Good luck to the Bison next Saturday, and hopefully you work the problems of the last game out before playing C-St. Pl.

The majority of thread is commenting on the officating and blaming the officials for NDSU's loss. I'm not blind and I can read between the not so blurred lines. *NDSU lost, leave it at that. *That ref was around last year, the year before, and yes in previous years he said "this way", "that way". *Why no comment on it then? Oh yeah, NDSU won so it didn't matter. *Serously, how desparate are Bison Fans getting to discredit officials and to find excuses for losing? *The Bison may as well never play any games because the fans on this board believe the Bison will win them all and when they don't its because someone screwed them over. *Is that what you want? *I didn't hear Coach Bohl mention anything about the officiating on the Coaches show. Take his example. *He said players were in position to make plays to win the game and they didn't make them. * I'm a Bison Fan but I'm also a realist and I refuse to resort to petty excuse making in all its disguised forms. * *

[huskies679]

DNK- I sis not say my uncle sat around doing that. He has a business to run. I said he did not like or care about SDSU. I should not have generalized.

[Bisonfan1]

bisonfan and bisonfan1234 (who were not at the game) After the game we spoke with numerous Huskey fans/parents in the tailgating area, THEY brought the subject of the officiating up and we of course agreed that it stunk. The people we talked to were a class act and we hope they felt the same about us, in fact we invited them to the Fargodome this weekend to join us at the tailgate/game as they are done now, I wouldnt be surprised if they show up, YOU two mister criticals can speak to the other side in person and get their take on it first hand if you wish. Let me put this to you, do you want that same officiating crew refing our possible longshot playoff game. I would think not. About 1/4 of the Huskey team walked through our area after the game, we even shook some hands, they did play a good game and we told them so, they had nothing to do with the officiating. Read b/w the lines all you want bisonfan, next time show up at the game before you jump all over everyone here who was there.

[BisonFan]

Both sides had the same Refs. The fact remains this thread is making excuses.

[BisonFan]

I think its time to lock this thread Tony.

[Bisonguy]

Steve Halstrom, Jack Michaels, and Stacey Anderson all commented on the officiating on Prime Time Sports tonight. There weren't too many kind words for the officials efforts, to say the least. I have never heard them say anything bad about officials before.

Stacey Anderson stated he watched the "fumble" in the fourth repeatedly, and it was indeed a fumble. Heckendorf was never down before Zimmerman had the ball, and by the time a whistle blew Zimmerman was already 20 yards downfield. It was like the refs thought the ball was still in the pile.

[BisonFan]

Refs are human. Refs make mistakes. Its all part of the game. I'll believe your point of view when you complain about a bad call that goes in NDSU's favor.

[Bisonfan1]

To change gears here somewhat, I know some refs who officiate NAIA Div II games, they dont do it out of the kindness of their heart, they are payed to do it, they usually work with the same guys and officiate outside of their immediate home area. Somewhere there has to be some accountability and review of performance. This wasnt the standard the ref missed a holding call, missed an offsides etc, they did on both sides, and other crews do every game, what we are talking here is turnover possessions, signaling our ball, then signalling the other way etc, not just once, numerous times. I would venture to say a tape of the game has quietly allready been sent to the head of officials for review. The officiating was terrible. This crew needs to go back to "ref school" Bison players, St Cloud players, fans did not get their moneys worth from those guys, they are supposed to be in the upper level of officiating and be at the top of their game, and again, I would rather this crew not be anywhere around a possible playoff game for any team/s until they are reviewed.

[Bisonguy]

Refs are human. Refs make mistakes. Its all part of the game. * I'll believe your point of view when you complain about a bad call that goes in NDSU's favor. *

Yes, refs are human and they make mistakes. If you actually saw the game, your point of view would change. When a media crew that is probably the least biased and homer voiced in D2 states that the refs were bad, they probably were bad. It wasn't just the calls that were made, it was how they were made. On the "fumble" the ref didn't look or talk to any other officials about whether or not Heckendorf was down. He was out of position, about 15 yards behind the play with five SCSU and three NDSU players between himself and Heckendorf. The umpire, however, was two yards away from Heckendorf and Zimmerman, with a clear view of the play(he had his eyes locked on the ball). The ref ran in after the play, in which no whistles were blown and signaled that Heckendorf was down before the ball was taken away. There was no way he could tell what happened on the play, yet he's the one making the call. btw- I made this observation for the fourth time minutes ago watching it in slo-mo. *

The Bison still lost. The Bison still had chances to win. The officiating was bad, that's all, nothing else. Anybody that did not see the game can only speculate and guess what everybody else is talking about.

[BisonFan]

You want to read the real reasons the Bison lost, read this:

http://www.in-forum.com/columnists/index.cfm?page=article&id=43773&columnist=mikemcfe ely

[Bisonguy]

BisonFan,

This has never been a "This is why the Bison lost" thread. It has been a "The officials at the SCSU game were very bad" thread. Please show me where anyone has blamed the loss on the officials in this thread. If you're reading between the lines, you are assuming things.

The outcome of the game wasn't determined by the officials. The officials at the SJSU/Hawaii game were probably better overall, and they were suspended and banned from postseason asignments for essentially one play. These officials should have their game tape watched very closely, if nothing else.

[BisonFan]

BisonFan,

This has never been a "This is why the Bison lost" thread. It has been a "The officials at the SCSU game were very bad" thread. Please show me where anyone has *blamed the loss on the officials in this thread. If you're reading between the lines, you are assuming things.

The outcome of the game wasn't determined by the officials. The officials at the SJSU/Hawaii game were probably better overall, and they were suspended and banned from postseason asignments for essentially one play. These officials should have their game tape watched very closely, if nothing else. *

This has been the officials were terrible and that's why NDSU lost thread! As McFeeley put it in his article and as Coach Bohl has been quoted saying, the Bison didn't make the plays they needed to make to win the game. And finally, as BisonFan1234 put it:


Should i call the waaaambulence you guys? C'mon....

I'm mad that we lost too...but obviously the refs had nothing to do with the loss. It's our own fault that we performed only just good enough where it put the ref in a position to make a judgement call. And beyond all of that....don't you think part of the reason they call it home field advantage is because they are going to give the benifit of a doubt to the home team? C'mon guys get real...no excuses.

No more excuses. This thread is blaming the refs for the loss, which isn't the case.

[Bisonguy]

Where did anybody say the refs were responsible for the loss? Neither you nor Bisonfan1234 were at the game and saw what happened on the field. Both of you are the only ones that are saying the refs are getting the blame for the loss, while nearly everybody else has admitted that NDSU had the opportunities to win, but did not.

It's two separate events. NDSU was outplayed by SCSU. The officials were very bad. They're not related. You're the only one making the conclusion that the two are related. They aren't.

Please read the posts and find the one that states the Bison lost because of bad officiating. Everyone agrees that the refs didn't cause the Bison to lose. The only disagreement is the quality of the officiating, which you did not see.

[Tuk]

The majority of thread is commenting on the officating and blaming the officials for NDSU's loss. I'm not blind and I can read between the not so blurred lines. *NDSU lost, leave it at that. *That ref was around last year, the year before, and yes in previous years he said "this way", "that way". *Why no comment on it then? Oh yeah, NDSU won so it didn't matter. *Serously, how desparate are Bison Fans getting to discredit officials and to find excuses for losing? *The Bison may as well never play any games because the fans on this board believe the Bison will win them all and when they don't its because someone screwed them over. *Is that what you want? *I didn't hear Coach Bohl mention anything about the officiating on the Coaches show. Take his example. *He said players were in position to make plays to win the game and they didn't make them. * I'm a Bison Fan but I'm also a realist and I refuse to resort to petty excuse making in all its disguised forms. * *


Whooaa now....let me get this right. Please advise me if I am misinterpreting your earlier comments. Here are some points I think you make and my responses:

BISONFAN: (in short) Tuk thinks the game was lost due to the officials.
RESPONSE: Can you read? Please go back through my threads and tell me where I am blaming the officials solely for the loss. All I am saying is that they made a few bad calls in my opinion and those call just happened to be on crucial drives. Could the Bison have won even if the calls stood? Absolutely. Could these calls have saved the game? No, probably not with how the team was playing. The Bison lost, and now must dust themselves off and move on. They have played better than that, and last Saturday was perhaps their worst day of playing for this season. We all have our days, and this just happened to be the Bison's.

BISONFAN: No one mentioned the "this way" or "that way" last year, but since the Bison lost Tuk is making a stink about it on the board. He is thus using petty comments and excuses for the Bison's loss.
RESPONSE: Well, since I have been a member of this board since July 22, 2003, I guess I should have commented last year when I didn't even know about this great site. Thanks BisonFan, you are right. I should have said something last year after the game. >:(

BISONFAN: The fans of the Bison athletics shouldn't discuss reasons for losses, and perhaps critique the games (such as officiating) because no one does it when Bison teams win. This is a double standard and as such everyone is hypocrites for acting as such.
RESPONSE: Well, count me guilty! I guess I look at wins as moments when things go right, and look at failures a little more closely so they are hopefully not repeated. I guess has nothing to do with human nature, but is my hypocracy showing through to all the people on this board. Thanks for exposing my weaknesses. I think most people feel the same way I do about losses, and look at wins with enthusiasum and excitement for the next game. No one likes to lose, and as such losses require intospection and dialogue to figure out what went wrong. BTW--I noticed last year when this fellow ref-ing last Saturday made his confusing calls, and I guess pointed it out this year to see if anyone else noticed. Does anyone still have an explanation?? ???

But I am glad there are rightous "realists" like you BisonFan to put us all into shape 8). I usually agree with what you post everyday and think you make good points/comments, but this time I am afraid you are misguided in your outlook. Sport fans question losses to figure out what happened, and I think that is what most are trying to do here. Please don't label everyone here as a sub-standard Bison fan because we question reasons for losses. On the officiating question, I think my position is perfectly clear and if not I am not sure what else to say to make it any clearer.

Good luck next week Bison. Lets get a win against C-StP.

[tony]

Sorry BisonFan, I won't lock this thread. If the refs blew calls, they should get called for it.

It doesn't do any good to complain about them though. I wouldn't want Bison fans to get the rep as being whiners about this sort of thing.

[JBB]

In the NCC coaches are prohibited from comment on officiating. There is no rule about fans commenting, complaining or whining. If they miss a call they miss it. It deserves comment.

I think the BISON would have won if some of those bad calls, especially the late fumble, had been made the way I saw them.

I also think the BISON would have won if we had made the extra pt.

I also think we would have won if we hadnt dropped a late pass.

Its tough enough to be a BISON fan with no cheering or standing allowed in the FFD, no tailgating and no commenting on player performance. I think not commenting on officiating will make the task almost impossible. In my mind every comment, complaint whine and observation about a game is valid and welcome. Stoic sportsmanship is admirable but it lacks vitality, color and human compassion for the game... It is polite though... I havent forgotten the kitty litter either. 8)

[SDbison]

Good points JBB. As for BisonFan I don't don't know what his problem is, but all he ever does is come down on people who are frustrated with an issue and want to talk about it on this message board. Maybe tailgating with alcohol is wrong but people are pissed and want to talk about it. Maybe the officials for the St Cloud game were not all that bad, but some fans were disappointed in their performance. I don't think everything posted on this board has to be worthy of a pulitzer prize, nor be politically correct. If tailgating with alcohol brings in 2000 more fans per game and the tailgate area is monitored (for underage / out of control people) then the university should be for it. If fans can get the NCC to look at video tapes and get rid of a consistently bad referee then more power to them. As for tailgate issue here is a great link to a story about how DI-A fans tailgate. Fargo, NDSU and the dome are really into making the whole game atmosphere so politically correct that we could just as well be at a church service. Maybe some day the so called leaders in Fargo and at the university can pull their heads out of their butts to see what a real game atmosphere is like.
http://msn.espn.go.com/page2/s/neel/031106ohiostate.html?partnersite=espn

[BisonFan]

No matter what all of you may think, this official bashing makes you all look like poor sports and sore losers. *It is excuse making. *I'm done with this thread. *False Starts, Dropped Passes, lack of Bison execution lost this game for the Bison. *If the Bison hadn't done those things, the officiating wouldn't even be an issue. *Have fun looking like sore losers as you continue to propagate the excuse making on this thread. * * *

[SDbison]

OK. BisonFan, you made your point about 12 times in this thread. Apparently a majority of those posting in this thread don't agree with you. So let it go and start a new thread about some topic that is more in line with your idealistic views. Fans will complain about the coaches, the referees, the game plan, and the team or individual players execution. An avid fan will do this, but he will also scream his head off at a game, talk his team up even when they don't have a chance, and forget the bad things that happen when things go great. God I love football......especially NDSU Bison football. Sometimes I can't understand why I put myself through the emotional swings, take criticism from my South Dakota neighbors, or humiliation from the too often lately celebrating UND fans at the local satellite site I coordinate. But through and through I bleed green and yellow and I am damn proud of it. Even if I get a little carried away sometimes.