D2 loss may hurt Montana in playoffs... [Archive]

WYOBISONMAN

11-19-2003, 08:56 PM

There is an interesting discussion going on the Egriz board regarding how bad the NDSU loss is going to hurt them in the playoffs. From the discussion it would seem that there is almost no up side for a D1AA school to play a D2 school, but there is a huge down side. Something for us to consider as we approach playoff elgibility and whether or not to play UND.

Link:

http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/viewtopic.php?t=3041

IowaBison

11-19-2003, 09:23 PM

For heaven's sakes, I hope we don't turn into the ladies to north and start scheduling in order to make the playoffs. I would rather have 10 quality games and no playoffs than a perfect record with no challenge and getting crushed in the first division because we played Podunk U and never learned to excel through adversity.

tony

11-19-2003, 09:41 PM

Both UND and NDSU should do what's good for the state, not what's good for their playoff chances. If the series resumes though, I don't think NDSU should further jeopardize their playoff chances by playing games in Grand Forks - they should all be in Fargo.

Hopefully, DII will change its ridiculous playoff selection criteria so UND won't have to worry about that much longer.

Bisonfan1234

11-19-2003, 10:28 PM

I hope we don't play UND until they go to D1.

If it never happens...screw them...we won't ever play them again. Simple as that.

Win-win for us.

fight_on_sioux

11-19-2003, 11:49 PM

I guess I agree that NDSU is in a win win situation by never having to play UND. They won't have to take the strength of schedule hit by playing them, and they won't have to take the loss to a D2 team. ;D

I agree with you for the most part Tony, but I don't think UND would jeopardize their playoff chances by playing a DI team on the road. If UND plays the Bison again before they go DI (Not saying they will) I'm pretty sure the games will be in Grand Forks.

IowaBison

11-20-2003, 12:48 AM

We really can't help it if you guys won't play us, but for heaven's sakes grow up. The Sioux-Bison game is worth more to either school than a national championship, in pride but especially in the pocket book. This is even more true in Grand Forks where hockey completely eclipses any other entertainment and athletic talent.

somebison

11-20-2003, 12:52 AM

*If UND plays the Bison again before they go DI (Not saying they will) I'm pretty sure the games will be in Grand Forks.

I doubt it

IowaBison

11-20-2003, 12:59 AM

I agree. I think that if UND ever comes to the table, they are no better position than the Bison. The next game, if and when it occurs will be in Fargo.

tony

11-20-2003, 03:11 AM

I agree with you for the most part Tony, but I don't think UND would jeopardize their playoff chances by playing a DI team on the road. *If UND plays the Bison again before they go DI (Not saying they will) I'm pretty sure the games will be in Grand Forks.

I didn't say that UND would jeopardize its playoff chances by playing NDSU. I don't think it would. Roger Thomas and Dale Lennon are the ones saying so.

WYOBISONMAN

11-20-2003, 03:50 AM

But, according to this thread on Egriz there is nothing to be gained as a D1AA team playing a D2. The wins don't count towards your overall record when getting placed in the playoffs, but the losses do count against you. It all seems a little twisted to me. If a win doesn't count for you then how can a loss count against you.

The interesting spin this puts on the old argument coming out of Englestad U. is that in reality a game against the Sioux may be more negative for the Bison than the Sioux when looking at playoff potential. I too agree that the rivalry is bigger than any National Playoff and the people of North Dakota want the schools to play.

BisonMav

11-20-2003, 04:02 AM

Posted by: WYOBISONMAN Posted on: Today at 9:50pm
I too agree that the rivalry is bigger than any National Playoff and the people of North Dakota want the schools to play.

I was born and raised in North Dakota. Sometimes progress and change enter the equation. I am opposed to NDSU playing UND when they are in different divisions. Is it good for the state to have NDSU start a Hockey program and play UND? Not to me. Maybe I am a minority, but I feel the two Universities have come to a crossroads. Each is going it's seperate way.

JBB

11-20-2003, 01:12 PM

I have agreed with BisonMavs position for a long time.

Nest season, I believe we will count as DIAA teams when we play D2 and D2 when we play DIAA. Not helpful. As it should be, our schedule will probably be full of teams that dont feel they have a chance at the playoffs (DI or D2) and other transition teams. Just like anything else we are going to have to work our way up.

Today, McFealys column takes another very negative jab at our move up. McFeally dwells in the present. Next season may very well be rough with low attendance. The season will have little meaning and the games will be mostly on the road. Thats not a reason to condemn the move. Next season is not the barometer of success. The next decade is.

Former_Hitman

11-20-2003, 02:10 PM

I agree, also.

The decade will be the barometer of success, however we need to put in the seats with the additional scholies we need the additional finance.

As we all know, we are going to be traveling much more that costs a good deal of finances.

Hammerhead

11-20-2003, 03:12 PM

As I understand it, NDSU won't be eligible for the playoffs during the next few years so who cares if we play a few quality D-II opponents ???

footballfan

11-20-2003, 03:22 PM

i think some quality D2 teams would be good the next few years, but always keep looking for playing the highest level teams that we can find

JBB

11-20-2003, 03:39 PM

The money thing is going to have to come from team maker memberships (they raised it $50 last year) and I just contributed to an athletic excellence fund. I think it is set up to endow scholarships. Everybody should give something.

NDSU_grad

11-20-2003, 03:46 PM

I have agreed with BisonMavs position for a long time. *

Nest season, I believe we will count as DIAA teams when we play D2 and D2 when we play DIAA. *Not helpful. *As it should be, our schedule will probably be full of teams that dont feel they have a chance at the playoffs (DI or D2) and other transition teams. *Just like anything else we are going to have to work our way up.

Today, McFealys column takes another very negative jab at our move up. *McFeally dwells in the present. *Next season may very well be rough with low attendance. *The season will have little meaning and the games will be mostly on the road. *Thats not a reason to condemn the move. *Next season is not the barometer *of success. *The next decade is.

Actually, I didn't think McFeely's column today was that bad. If you can get past the anti-NDSU rhetoric, he's pretty much right on. Gene will have to schedule teams that fans can get excited about. That may include quality DII teams. If the sue don't want to play us, that's fine, but if they are willing to come to Fargo and play, then I say play them.

Bisonfan1234

11-20-2003, 03:52 PM

I say even if UND decides to play us we should say screw em.

Let's play some GOOD teams from D2.

Former_Hitman

11-20-2003, 04:26 PM

This is what I think,

As we know, we have signed the contract and we are waiting for the people up north to sign it.

The state of North Dakota would love to have this rivarly continue, however we should not wait for them.

Yeah, if we win, we are suppose to win. If we loose this will hurt us extremely.

Give them a deadline to sign the contract. If they don't sign we will not look back. This is a awesome opportunity for NDSU to establish new traditions and rivalries with other schools!!!

We must go in other directions. We have one agenda and they have another.

And in time, they will understand turning D-IAA would have been the best choice for them. At that time, we're going to be very successful, and we will continue not to look back at them.

IowaBison

11-20-2003, 06:11 PM

Absolutely,

I don't think it will take long to establish rivalries with Montana and Montana State if they choose to play us regularly. This while UND continues to work on their relationship with Crookston

wfduck

11-20-2003, 06:20 PM

Actually, I didn't think McFeely's column today was that bad. *If you can get past the anti-NDSU rhetoric, he's pretty much right on. **

the rhetoic is what gets old
i'm ready to cancel that newspaper and just read it on the web

all thanks to McSquirrely

Bisonfan1234

11-20-2003, 07:45 PM

Absolutely,

I don't think it will take long to establish rivalries with Montana and Montana State if they choose to play us regularly. *This while UND continues to work on their relationship with Crookston

Or West IL, Northern IA, and West KY.

WYOBISONMAN

11-20-2003, 08:14 PM

I really doubt that a game against UNI, Western Ill., or Western KY will have the same significance that games against Montana and Montana State will. Not even close to the rivalry potential that exists with the lead institutions from the state next door.

NDSU_grad

11-20-2003, 09:05 PM

WyoBison,
You're right. While those "directional" schools have great programs, they're not "University of" or "State U". There may be some name recognition with UNI since they used to be in the NCC, but it may take awhile for most fans to get excited about other great programs.

Bisonfan1234

11-20-2003, 09:27 PM

Well WYO, you said it yourself, you're from West ND. Of course you want to see NDSU in with MT guys. Fargo, however, is on the East side of the state next to MN, IA, and WI.

And we have more people.

Another fact, UNI is about half the distance to fargo than Bozeman is (449mi vs 756mi). Not only that, but Minneapolis is on the way to Fargo from Cedar Falls, so they will bring plenty of fans (certainly as many as Montana or Montana St would bring).

Also, to put UNI down because they are a "directional" school is utter nonsense. They have just as good as (if not better) football program as UMT or MTSU. Also, to raise up UMT or MTSU (or even NDSU) over UNI simply because they are "the" state u or U is complete nonsesnse. All that proves is that the state has hardly any people and thus the main colleges are small.I don't care if your school is called Southern Southwestern 2nd Teir University....if you play good ball you play good ball.

somebison

11-20-2003, 09:45 PM

Also, to put UNI down because they are a "directional" school is utter nonsense. They have just as good as (if not better) football program as UMT or MTSU.

Montana State yes, Montana no, Montana has 2 National Championships in the last 7? years and has 18,000 season ticketholders, UNI who I would love to play, does not have that.

IowaBison

11-20-2003, 10:40 PM

I had thought about adding Northern Iowa and even Western Illinois in my original post, but I really don't think that most fans will get excited about playing the Panthers or the Leathernecks. If you want to talk about location affecting interest, I LIVE IN IOWA! and would much rather see us play Montana and Montana State.

WYOBISONMAN

11-20-2003, 10:59 PM

North Dakota State is an asset for the entire State, not just the east. Heck, I still think that Bison1234 is really from MN originally....I am a native... ;)

C-Student

11-21-2003, 12:41 AM

UND is a fine University with solid athletic programs; however, the University is now more than ever insignificant to NDSU and Fargo. While UND will continue to be an asset to the State, it will have no impact on the lives of people who follow the Bison.

Bisonguy

11-21-2003, 12:41 AM

somebison,

your new avatar scares me :'( :'( :'(

C-Student

11-21-2003, 01:08 AM

Since 4 or 5 of our games annually will require flying, there is no reason we shouldn't schedule D1-AA teams from across the U.S. Why limit our shedule to the schools previously mentioned? The schedule should be wide open, at least until we are accepted in an area conference. Why not arrange a home & home with come California teams (Davis-CalPoly), or some teams from the Southeast. I would imagine travel costs would be very similar regardless of distance.

Bisonfan1234

11-21-2003, 02:43 AM

North Dakota State is an asset for the entire State, not just the east. *Heck, I still think that Bison1234 is really from MN originally....I am a native... ;)

...right....

You're lucky that the guys who started Fargo found a way to get accross that muddy stream. ;D

JBB

11-21-2003, 03:25 AM

UND is a fine University with solid athletic programs; however, the University is now more than ever insignificant to NDSU and Fargo. *While UND will continue to be an asset to the State, it will have no impact on the lives of people who follow the Bison.

Thats a sensible post! It echoes many of us and makes the point very clear. Its time to look into the new world.

Right now I would say our biggest rival is UCD. We have lost 2 in a row to a team that hung with us during our dynasty years. It hasnt always been pleasant either. Next year we should have the team that can beat them. We should have won this year. It is our biggest game. We absolutely have to beat them on their turf. I wouldnt want to see 3 losses in a row to the biggest and most influential, prestigious University that we play.

Bisonfan1234

11-21-2003, 03:27 AM

I read somewhere that UC Davis only takes the best students in the entire UC system (including Berkeley).

IowaBison

11-21-2003, 03:46 AM

You're a little of on the prestige of Davis, they are no Berkeley, but definitely as good as an Iowa State, Oregon State, Cornell, and UCLA.

They are definitely a full fledged research university putting both NDSU and UND to shame. They are a stone's through away from Sacramento (1 million plus) and about an hour from the Bay area. They are still called Moo U by most Californians, though they are far from the Ag School they were into the 50's (kind of like SU, but only on a bigger scale).

Bisonfan1234

11-21-2003, 03:53 AM

Kinda far...but we may have found a temporary replacement for UND!

But honestly i think SDSU will become our greatest rival in the future.

BisonMav

11-21-2003, 03:55 AM

That could very well be true. ;D

JBB

11-21-2003, 04:00 AM

I think we had better get TAMUK on the list too, even if it means traveling next season.

BisonInTexas

11-21-2003, 04:20 AM

BisonInTexas

11-21-2003, 04:38 AM

UND is a fine University with solid athletic programs; however, the University is now more than ever insignificant to NDSU and Fargo. *While UND will continue to be an asset to the State, it will have no impact on the lives of people who follow the Bison.

Kind of like how Ohio U has no impact on Ohio State fans... ;D

What I want Roger Thomas to answer is who is going to be his $27.50 game in the future if he doesn't play NDSU?

Craig

WYOBISONMAN

11-21-2003, 05:15 AM

Man.....how long do we have to look at that M. Jackson avtar.......it is making my kids nervous....... ;D

Charger

11-21-2003, 08:11 AM

I hope that the SDSU vs. NDSU game becomes more of a rivalry. I know it hasn't been in the past since you guys dominated, but hopefully we will both be great teams in the future and have some great games. I think this is the game that will bring the highest attendance to SDSU and I hope we bring a lot of fans when we play in Fargo.

WYOBISONMAN

11-21-2003, 03:09 PM

Back when I was in undergrad school we had a great rivalry with SDSU going in Basket Ball. However, the Bison did not keep playing the quality of BB the Jacks did.

Jav_Fan

11-21-2003, 03:26 PM

I think we had better get TAMUK on the list too, even if it means traveling next season.

That would be a game I would be interested in (even if it still is an 8 hour drive and I live in Texas)!

Craig

I cannot think of a better game to put on the Javelina schedule. We would welcome you down to Kingsville and show your fans some good Texas hospitality...until kickoff. After the game, we could become civilized again. Just kidding, I think our fans are pretty tame. We reserve most of our obscenities for the officials.

I'm pretty sure we still have an open date on our schedule, and will need a home game, so let's get on our ADs and head coaches and get it done.

And wouldn't it be great to say that the Bison are playing the defending national champions? Go hogs all the way to Florence!!!

somebison

11-21-2003, 05:38 PM

Man.....how long do we have to look at that M. Jackson avtar.......it is making my kids nervous....... ;D

Admit it you like it 8), you let your kids read these message boards... I hope you keep them away from the smack talk ;) I think you will be fine as long as your don't let your kids spend the night at his house ::) ::)

IowaBison

11-21-2003, 06:48 PM

That photo scares the hell out of me. The guy doesn't even look human anymore.

Jav_Fan

11-21-2003, 07:36 PM

That photo scares the hell out of me. The guy doesn't even look human anymore.

Anymore? That would imply that at one time he did look human.

Bisonguy

11-21-2003, 08:21 PM

JavFan,

I doubt NDSU wants to pick up another road game. The only three confirmed games next year are on the road, and it isn't looking like a lot of I-AA's want to start a home/home in Fargo. Any DII's will probably be at home, because that may be the only home games we get. :'(

IowaBison

11-21-2003, 08:24 PM

What's wrong with playing d2 games at home, we've been doing it for a hundred years.

Bisonguy

11-21-2003, 08:37 PM

Jav_Fan said TAMUK is looking for a game at home. NDSU would be reluctant to play a DII on the road next year, because DII opponent are probably the only chance to get any home games next year (much like UNC this year). I-AA's don't want to play at the Fargodome next year, as witnessed by where NDSU is playing UNC, UCD, and St. Mary's.

Nothing is wrong with playing DII's at the Fargodome.

C-Student

11-21-2003, 08:38 PM

Why not take some risk. I think we would surprise ourselves by "running" instead of "walking first". Just a thought.

Bisonguy

11-21-2003, 08:40 PM

Why not take some risk. *I think we would surprise ourselves by "running" instead of "walking first". *Just a thought.

Run where?

somebison

11-21-2003, 08:42 PM

C-Student

11-21-2003, 08:43 PM

As in, why play down a division? Unless, of course, it is absolutely necessary to ensure a couple home games......or, buy a home game, or two ??

IowaBison

11-21-2003, 08:48 PM

I can't stand that face looking at me!!!

I think that the Bison will get as full of a house playing an NCC team as they would playing a DIaa team that most fans are unfamiliar with- no big name team will play us in Fargo first.

Bisonguy

11-21-2003, 08:58 PM

Bisonfan1234

11-21-2003, 09:02 PM

We need home games....we need money!

somebison

11-21-2003, 09:03 PM

C-Student,

NDSU will have to schedule a couple of DII's next year to get home games. If St. Mary's won't start a home/home in Fargo, nobody probably will. NDSU will still count as a DII opponent for I-AA schools next year, so that may also be part of the equation. The 2005 schedule should be easier (already have three I-AA home games). Without a conference, any home games will have a guarantee or a home/home contract, even for DII's.

Next year will definitely be our most difficult year of scheduling. However in '05 we may have a great home schedule with Davis, UNC, and hopefully some "big-name" schools ie Montana State, that we will start home and home contracts with in '04. Also other than UND, I don't see many other D2 teams with which we would schedule home and homes. (SDSU has gone a bit farther, I beleive SDSU has said that all future FB games with Augie and USD will be in brookings) The rest of the home d2 games would probably be guarantee games.

Bisonguy

11-21-2003, 09:10 PM

somebison,

I also doubt there would be any DII home/homes. My thoughts rambled together about how any home games would have to be guarantees or home/homes because there will not be any conference games next year. I should have differentiated guarantees for DII and I-AA, home/homes for I-AA only.

somebison

11-21-2003, 09:46 PM