tailgating

[runtheoption]

Anyone,

How did the tailgating go Saturday? Any problems with fans getting chippy with the police or vice-versa? Or was it business (fun) as usual?

[bisononce]

It's sad to see. Last time AFTER a loss, the West side was full and fun. Last night, after a win, there were just a few lonely outposts of folks. On a walk through twenty minutes after the game, it felt like a post game celebration at Northern Cass or someplace... Thanks to the authorities for saving us hard working, phlegmatic Noth Dakotans from ourselves. >:(

[BisonFan]

check out the Forum...http://www.in-forum.com. They have an article on it.

[Bisonguy]

Terry DeVine also did an editorial on it today- http://www.in-forum.com/columnists/index.cfm?page=article&id=41152&columnist=terrydev ine

Jeff Kolpack had one on Friday-http://www.in-forum.com/columnists/index.cfm?page=article&id=40976&columnist=jeffkolp ack


First and foremost, NDSU has to change their policy or make an exception for football games. That's still the major obstacle, not the police or mayor. After that, the permit issue can be adressed. The Fargodome might have that covered already, I don't know. I believe that each outdoor event needs a permit.

Once those steps are done, make the north end of the west lot the alcohol lot. Gate it off, check ID's of those that enter and hand out wristbands. Have security casually look for wristbands and report any offenders to law enforcement. Keep the south end of the lot alcohol free with all the kiddie games. If families want an alcohol free environment, they have it available to them. The entertainment (DJ, band, food, radio remotes, etc.) could be moved near the entrance of the west lot (i.e. in the middle).

[dnk]

Does anyone check the luxury boxes inside the dome
for alcohol.. Make an issue of that and things will
probably change in a hurry!.

[Till]

A really nice dome official actually walked up to us, all with mugs in hand, and said we'd be alright, just be discrete about it. He even said he had to put his cup away because he was afraid of being interviewed by one of the many members of the press there. And said something along the lines of, "Being a state employee is kinda shitty."

[JBB]

somebody, something or some group is behind this crackdown. Its an issue NDSU tried to win early this season but cant. As stated earlier its against the law/policy and it will have to be changed. It obviously doesnt affect beer sales at the hilarious or the hockey rink up there.

My guess is area bar owners that saw a drop in business, do gooders of the national temperance league, or und people have raised this unwinable issue behind the scenes. Its a blow to NDSU but it could be changed. Why not tailgate across 19th Ave. in the parking lot over there?

[Tatanka]

If I'm not mistaken, the old Sunmart/Osco drug building (now the Skills and Technology Center) is run by (or is part of) NDSCS. Would they have a similar issue as NDSU? Maybe, maybe not.

As far as who is behind this, at least one "do-gooder" fun nazi has been quoted in the paper--the director of orientation and student success ::) , Laura Oster-Aaland. This lady has a stick up her butt so large she could pole vault over the dome, if she could run. I don't know what role she has to play on this whole thing but she's quoted in the articles as trying to have NDSU be a "leader" in non-fun rather than attempt what works very well at other schools.

[Schemer]

Ya know how UND is always concerned about what we're doing in Fargo?

Well, couldn't NDSU pressure UND administration to also BAN any alcohol at sioux football games? And as we all know it's the right thing to do.

And did you know.....

I have a friend who is a journalist.........and not a sports journalist, mind you. In fact, this woman HATES football. UND PAID for her, some GF Herald journalists, and some athletic administration to travel to a KC Chiefs game earlier this month to see how they tailgate. Do you think they came back with 'dry' tailgating ideas? I think not.

I find it funny how UND administration is amazingly quiet on this subject........when, they usually like to meddle in our business. The one time it would be nice for them to stick up for us.....they're nowhere to be found. Go figure...I guess I should expect it from a sioux.

[Tuk]

ALL RIGHT FOLKS!! I hate it as much as everyone here, but enough discussing the problem; let's try to solve it!

Petition drives, TeamMakers, and any other strings that can be polled. I can only speculate, but for people who are weeks ahead of anyone else in the KNOW of the happenings of Bison football should be able to get some stuff going.

HOW ABOUT IT? LETS GET SOME STUFF ROLLING AND GET THIS STUPID RULE REVERSED. Lets work together....add suggestions, work the phones, whatever. I am willing to do anything to twart this neo-Prohibition movement that is taking over OUR football enjoyment.

DANG IT PEOPLE, COME ON!! Lets get this thing fixed before it ruins the University....

[wfduck]

where do i sign the petition?

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think that all of us that are Team Makers and give money to the Development Foundation need to call Chapman and Taylor and weigh in on this. *We need to voice our opinion.

[bisononce]

Is it fair to ask our moderator, or some appointed rep. from these discussions to be a spokes'person.' Contact Gene Taylor to say the strong position of our posters is... (carefully crafted opposition to silly prohibition).

[Tatanka]

Where do I sign?!?

[roadwarrior]

The NDSU athletic dept and the Team Makers both are trying to figure out the best way to allow tailgating to happen, while somehow keeping those opposed to it happy at the same time.

[BisonFan]

Not to be an antagonist here or anything, but the way some people talk, tailgating seems more important to them than the game itself. *I don't mind having a cold one every now and then, but on Saturdays BISON FOOTBALL takes precedent in my mind over booze. *Quite honestly I'm happy with just having a good football game to watch...If people seriously think this no booze tailgating policy is going to be the end of fun at Bison Football games, maybe they should check into AA for a month or so...Seriously, Booze does not have to be part of everthing and its not the end of the world if a law doesn't allow it to be consumed on the Fargo Dome premises for the time-being. *Once again, I reiterate, I'm not an anti-alcohol person. I just think some people are failing to see the big picture here, *no booze on the Fargo Dome premises for the time being is not the end of the world. * * *

[bisononce]

By the powers invested in me, by Thundar, I hereby nominate Bisonguy - to contact Gene Taylor by phone or real letter; to relay our extreme displeasure with the attempts at saving Bison fans from eternal perdition.

Bisonguy: Tell us you will!! :o :o

[iamabison]

I disagree with you BisonFan. It's the experience as a whole that makes Bison football what it is. It's more about being harassed by Fargo's alcohol obsessed police force than anything else. It's about creating a big time atmosphere, and beers-n-brats is a big big part of that. Tailgating and beer, for 95% of the population, are inseparable, plain and simple.

[BisonFan]

Again, I remind you. Is this about football or is this just about Booze? Have you heard of AA?

[BisonFan]

p.s. I've been to quite a few games in which I was surrounded by intoxicated fans sneaking sips from flasks of what not hidden in their coat pockets. I've also witnessed numerous loud, obnoxious, intoxicated fans being escorted out of both Football and Basketball games. Is this about supporting the Bison on their playing field or is this about satisfying a dependency on booze? Not to harp on you IAMABISON, but aren't you the one who vowed never to be a bison fan when you shut down your site a couple of years ago? If that's the case, why do you even care today? A bit hypocritical are we?

[iamabison]

Sometimes you get the itch again, what can I say...

Anyways, why do .500 teams in I-A sellout games? It's because of the "party atmosphere", the "experience", the whole being greater than the sum of all parts.

When NDSU is .500, or god forbid 2-8 again, how many fans were there? I can recall Kevin Feeney's last game when they were 6-4, and it was around 6 or 7 thousand fans. Why? Because there is no "experience". Like it or not, the city and the university have removed the "experience" side of it.

If you think there is still an experience factor in people coming to Bison athletics, you're dreaming. You could hear someone burp across the dome 99% of the time it's so quiet.

And, it's not necessarily just tailgating with booze. It's the Sioux Suck t-shirt ban. It's removing the canon from the dome because a few people complained. It's kicking people out of the south endzone 3 years in a row because AARP said they were just too loud.

p.s. just because someone enjoys a beer now and then, you shouldn't throw the AA label around.

[BisonFan]

I'm just making a point with the AA thing...don't take it 100% literally. The way some people are talking its like they will not show up to Bison games just because they can't have a beer in the parking lot. Seriously, that's sad. Like I said, I'm not against tailgating with beer in the west lot...that alternative is a lot better than the thought of people tailgaiting elsewhere off the premises and possibly driving a little under the influence to the games. Even stumbling or walking across 19th Ave from BWW would be little risky with some booze flowing through one's veins.

[Bisonguy]

By the powers invested in me, by Thundar, I hereby nominate Bisonguy - to contact Gene Taylor by phone or real letter; to relay our extreme displeasure with the attempts at saving Bison fans from eternal perdition.

Bisonguy: Tell us you will!! * :o :o

I'm not exactly chummy with Gene Taylor, but I will definitely send him an email. What does everyone think? What are some suggestions?

How about my idea of separating the west lot- north end for alcohol permitted, south end for no alcohol. Kids games and stuff in the south end, wrist bands required in the north lot, with added security to watch for "unruly" behavior. I think it's a good compromise. Those that want to have a drink can, those that are worried about not having a family-friendly atmosphere are also accomodated.

[89rabbit]

I know this is a Fargo thing but I felt the need to jump in. *I live in Kansas City and have season tickets to the Chiefs. *Arrowhead is the Mecca of tailgating. *Heck our friends, and I use the term loosey, from UND sent a delegation to one of our preseason games to see how it is done (If you want more details about the Sue trip to KC go to the Jackrabbit board, under others, see UND fans not happy). *Tailgating does turn a football game into an event. *Events draw more people then just games. *It makes the good seasons better and the bad seasons bearable.

To me tailgating is like getting together with your neighbors on the deck, cooking out and having a couple of brews. *Then the best part comes because there is a football game at the end of the cook out. *What could be better? *

Having never been to the Fargo Dome, moved to KC in '91, I don't know how much space you have. *Here is KC the parking lots don't need to be separated, people kind of segregate themselves. *You can look at a group and have a pretty good idea of how they will behave during the pre-game. *If they don't look like your type you set up camp elsewhere. *I would say that folks for the most part don't get out of hand or stupid drunk here in KC. *If they do we have lots of orange shirted police to keep the peace, but really with crowds of 79,000 +, there are not many (I would say *there are not "any", but you know there has to be one or two with that many people. I just have not seen any.) problems. *

I have had my season tickets for 5 years now we tailgate with the same people week after week and we have never had a problem. *Quite the contrary people have always been friendly and nice (I will never forget the game my buddy left all the meat at his house and we begged for food).

Tailgating turns a football game into an event. *It only adds to the experience. *It takes nothing away from the game and I highly recommend it. *

A rabbit in KC

[Tuk]

Although I drink mostly Pepsi before the games, I believe the "experience" of tailgating has been greatly dulled by the ban on booze. I know where you are coming from BISONGUY, but like it or not many of the fans do enjoy that nice refreshment before the game. This is why we need booze to be allowed, not only to make the fans enjoy the game but to also make future generations enjoy the Bison football because of the pre-game, post-game, and most importantly gametime activities. If NDSU is to truly grow, we must build everything to attract bigger crowds and new fans. What I am trying to say is this: we don't need booze to get drunk, but it makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable.

Booze does have its unintended implications for the general audience, but I think the benefits of lifting the ban will far outweigh the negatives. We need to create a new atmosphere at NDSU, and not the one attempted by the administration presently. We need to have the atmosphere of tradition, pride, and loyalty similar to the Montanas, Nebraskas, and other programs of D1 football. More of a following the Bison get, the more funding comes in. Athletics are an essential part of getting money toward the university, and I am all for making NDSU the premier institution in the northland. If we don't do this, NDSU will have a more difficult time or outright fail in its attempt to go D1 and expand to better, more fruitful levels of recognition. I don't know about you, but I will be darned if I will let UND laugh at us for failing.

[Tuk]

Here are my ideas for getting this overturned:

Start a petition among the TeamMakers and Development Foundation that strongly encourages NDSU, City of Fargo, State Board of Higher Education, and State Legislature (submitted to those institutions as needed) to develop a resolution to this problem. This petition must also state that although alcohol is not encouraged, it is essential to the culture of NDSU tailgating and is allowed at other state university sanctioned events across the state. Remember the golden rule of politics, those with the cash have the loudest voices....
Begin a petition among NDSU fans for the overturning of the alcohol ban during NDSU football pre and post game tailgating
Develop alternative solutions to the ban. (ie-designated tailgating areas around the FargoDome, security/police checkpoints for those wishing to enter the designated drinking areas, a zero-tolerance rule for underage drinking at campus events--to discourage underage drinking before, during, and after the game)
A letter-writing/email campaign towards President Chapman in favor of lifting the ban. Letters should indicate how drinking @ tailgating affects the university and future development of NDSU
Letter to the Editor campaign to the Forum in favor of lifting the ban during tailgating. This would perhaps give more local support for a lift on the ban

If we do this, I think we may have a good chance of overturning this rule. Anyone up for being a coordinator? Anyone up for leading this bunch of hooligans into a coordinated campaign to overturn this rule? Tony: any chance of us getting a space so we can utilize BISONVILLE as a communication tool? Lets get something going.....

[imported_admin]

iamabison, if you did run that site (iamabison.com), I loved it and was sorry to see it go. That "dress UND's basketball coach" thing was hilarious.

Tuk, I'm of the view that the issue will get decided but it will have to be a slow process because that's how ND is. How long did it take NDSU to go from talking about DI to going DI? In comparison, this issue will get decided quickly, by the beginning of next year's season.

Things have to change. Temperance rallies aren't going to attract people to come and watch the team during a rough season (or even a banner season). It just ticks people off.

[BisonFan]

If you are patient, you will get what you want. According to WDAY News at 6 tonight the City of Fargo is willing to grant a permit for tailgating in the West lot on the days of Bison games if NDSU changes its completely "dry" campus policy. We all know, that "dry" does not mean NDSU's campus is dry. In fact, it is far from it. Talk to, e-mail, do whatever to express your wants to Joe Chapman, Gene Taylor, or whomever at NDSU if you want to see "legal tailgating" with booze on saturdays in the west dome lot. Again, patience is the key. Bad mouthing and rebelling will not get very far, but if those that want tailgating back use the right channels and go about things in a democratic manner, I'm betting they will see tailgating back sooner than later without the police breathing down their necks..that being as long as they do it responsibly.

[BisonFan]

bisoninsider has the "Dress up Gene" game on its iamabison revisited link. I'm not sure its working correctly though.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Actually Bisonfan, change comes through being a rebel and getting pissed off about things. *If people give the Mayor, Police Chief, AD and President hell about this whole stupid thing there will be change. *I don't think people should be patient, they should be furious......and DEMAND change.

[Trainer]

Ya Bisonfan, the dressing gene game isn't working right, but I hope to get it working correctly soon. Just haven't had time. As for the tailgating, I hope some resolution is found soon. I'm not sure what the Fargo City Council can do, because I think it will be up to NDSU administration to change their policy. Optimistically, I think something will get worked out in the near future. Gene Taylor and Pres. Chapman know there is a problem, but like any thing involving change; it takes time.

[BisonFan]

Getting pissed off, WYOBISONMAN, does nothing. *Its like the whole assertive vs. agressive distinction. *If you are agressive in this case, you will alienate those that can change things to the way you want them to be. *If you are assertive, and make your points without yelling, screaming, raising hell, whining, etc...you will be surprised how soon tailgating will be accepted without resistance in the dome's west lot. * *

[BisonFan]

http://www.mikelehmann.com/rants/rants_sept03.html

Check out his September 28th entry

[dnk]

Make an issue out of alcohol being consumed in the
Fargodome suites and this whole problem will be
resolved sooner rather than later.

[Bisonguy]

Make an issue out of alcohol being consumed in the
Fargodome suites and this whole problem will be
resolved sooner rather than later. *

No, it won't. At most if there is alcohol being consumed in the suites, it will raise a concern for enforcement. At worst, NDSU and the Fargodome will lose a lot of money from supporters.

The best solution is discussion and offering suggestions to those that need to change some rules. First and foremost would be Joseph Chapman and Gene Taylor. If they do not decide to change the current policy, absolutley no progress can be made. It is NDSU's dry campus policy that is the first obstacle to overcome.

Next would be the city of Fargo. The city commish(?) stated on the radio today that he would have no problem giving the Fargodome an alcohol permit for NDSU games. There will be no permit for NDSU unless the current alcohol policy is changed, or an exception is made.

Gene Taylor had stated that if there is enough concern about the alcohol enforcement, he would look at possible options. If people keep pissing and moaning about it, there's a better chance that there will be no tailgating, than tailgating with alcohol. Explaining to Taylor and Chapman the benefits of having the option for alcohol at tailgating will help the cause much more than whining that there is alcohol in the suites. There's been a lot of media attention about this the last weeks, and most think there will be some resolution made. Whether or not it will be this year is another story.

On a sidenote, Joseph Chapman will be commenting about the TailgateGate in The Forum tomorrow.

[Bisonguy]

Lt. Keith Ternes of the Fargo Police Department was on FOX news, and said that the Fargodome and NDSU should make a compromise with the city of Fargo about allowing limited alcohol at tailgating. Ternes had never been to one of the Bison tailgates, and said the crowd before the SDSU game was well behaved and under control.

Gene Taylor was also interviewed and said there will probably not be any changes to the school's policy this year.

[SDbison]

So Gene Taylor and Joe Chapman are the turds plugging the toilet. In part I disagree with BisonFan's go soft approach because it will definitely not do anything this year and it puts a bunch of tailgaters on the edge of a possible $100 ticket until something is done. Too bad NDSU doesn't have a big benefactor that could pull some weight like Ralphie did at UND. Face it, these power mongers, whether they are the mayor, police chief, university president or athletic director do not understand anything other than money and power. Two things will get them to change, either someone gets them more power or money in exchange for taking it easy on the tailgaters or someone can make them uncomfortable about their monetary situation or stability in office. Even if twenty or thirty of us small time teammakers threatened to drop our memberships the crusty duo of Gene and Joe would just sit back and laugh. If Gene and Joe were so determined to be big enough buttholes to enforce this crap in the first place then they are sure not going to back down just because some concerned citizens grumble. If anything these boys are loving every minute of pressing their thumbs down on the will of the people. This whole politically correct initiative just makes most people with any sort of a life want to puke. Too bad they ran out of the PC guide before I got to the tailgate lot on Saturday because I was going roll it up and return it to the university with a message where they can stick it. Gene and Joe could make something happen tomorrow if they wanted. Just a little compromise, to satisfy the adults of drinking age and put an end to this pathetic situation. Oh and by the way BisonFan, just because you have a couple drinks before the game doesn't make you a drunk or a candidate for AA. If anything, the real fans who make some noise and care about the outcome of the game are the tailgaters who live it up (i.e. have a couple drinks). Those who sit on their hands waiting to be entertained in the dome are the more likely the "dry" type. Sorry if I sound a little pissed but I am.

[Bisonguy]

President Chapman speaks out on Tailagating-Tailgating studied: NDSU president to form advisory panel
(http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=41317)

Looks like president Chapman is forming an advisory panel to recommend whether or not to allow alcohol at tailgating. Bad news- no recommendation until March.

[BisonFan]

So Gene Taylor and Joe Chapman are the turds plugging the toilet. *In part I disagree with BisonFan's go soft approach because it will definitely not do anything this year and it puts a bunch of tailgaters on the edge of a possible $100 ticket until something is done. *Too bad NDSU doesn't have a big benefactor that could pull some weight like Ralphie did at UND. *Face it, these power mongers, whether they are the mayor, police chief, university president or athletic director do not understand anything other than money and power. *Two things will get them to change, either someone gets them more power or money in exchange for taking it easy on the tailgaters or someone can make them uncomfortable about their monetary situation or stability in office. * Even if twenty or thirty of us small time teammakers threatened to drop our memberships the crusty duo of Gene and Joe would just sit back and laugh. *If Gene and Joe were so determined to be big enough buttholes to enforce this crap in the first place then they are sure not going to back down just because some concerned citizens grumble. * If anything these boys are loving every minute of pressing their thumbs down on the will of the people. *This whole politically correct initiative just makes most people with any sort of a life want to puke. *Too bad they ran out of the PC guide before I got to the tailgate lot on Saturday because I was going roll it up and return it to the university with a message where they can stick it. *Gene and Joe could make something happen tomorrow if they wanted. *Just a little compromise, to satisfy the adults of drinking age and put an end to this pathetic situation. *Oh and by the way BisonFan, just because you have a couple drinks before the game doesn't make you a drunk or a candidate for AA. *If anything, the real fans who make some noise and care about the outcome of the game are the tailgaters who live it up (i.e. have a couple drinks). *Those who sit on their hands waiting to be entertained in the dome are the more likely the "dry" type. *Sorry if I sound a little pissed but I am. * * * * *

You don't want to eat crow now do you SDBison. Chapman is going to study the issue. This is the first step to having Tailgating in the lot again. *Again, the best way to get what you desire is to be patient! *And by the way, the AA comments were made with a bit of sarcasm. *I find it funny that so many people act as though no booze for tailgating will be the end of the world. *They had been giving people an inch for the longest time by looking the other way at the whole issue, but once a keg(s) (people started taking feet rather than inches) started showing up look what happened. *The number one thing for me is whether or not there is football on saturday. I'll save the celebration until after the game. *Also, what makes you think you can't get into (i.e. raise some hell and cheer) the game without having a little liquid courage in you? *Just wondering...I have no problem cheering either way.

[BisonMav]

Like JBB said, enjoy the game ourselves, and not ask the people around us to live up to our expectations.

I support the tailgating, and think we should get back to the topic and work on a solution.

[mojobison]

BisonFan, I think it's more the principle of the thing more than the beer itself. If it was just an overpowering love of booze, people would just go to a bar instead of tailgating or they'd tailgate and break the rules.

Nobody likes to be told not to do something. When the reasons don't make sense to them, it's like being treated like a child. Some adults are more comfortable with that than others - mostly when it's somebody else's behavior being affected rather than theirs. *

[WYOBISONMAN]

I still say raise hell. I sent off my emails the day all this crap broke loose. Glad to se Chapman is moving on it and I am optomistic we will see some change. I assure you though, nothing would have happened if it were not for the public outrage and the outrage of those of us that give the bucks to support the programs at NDSU. Not to mention the frustration of the students. To all that raised a stink......Good job and lets watch how this unfolds.

[BisonFan]

You can make a point without raising a stink....have you ever tried doing that?

[met1990]

You indeed can make a point without "making a stink." It's just that noone cares to listen to them.

If you are from the Fargo area I will point to those that want the Ten Commandments moved from the Civic Center as evidence.

[BisonFan]

Read Rich's message and then speak your mind politely to those listed below if you want to see tailgating permitted in the west lot...

Rich Stevens From http://www.bisoninsider.com
"Chapman and Taylor have been put in a difficult situation between die-hard tailgaters and the non-alcohol crowd. If you believe alcohol should be allowed for tailgating in the Fargodome parking lot make sure you send some sort of correspondence to the NDSU Athletic Department. Email, mail, phone.... whatever. I've already sent two or three emails stating my position. No need to get nasty, just politely tell the NDSU AD what you think, but all of us in support of a policy change allowing alcohol must realize that this will take time. Whether it's the Fargo City Commission or the NDSU administration, bureaucracy fills the air.... It sucks but join me in not letting this issue die. Keep the pressure on.... I'm sure BI will do it's part. Do you see Babich on the sideline?"

Message edited by: Rich Stevens on 10/01/2003 10:47:16[Server Time/GMT -8 Pacific Time]

| Report to admin | Speaking message |

Rich Stevens

Bison Diehard

Posts : 35
Reg : 12/19/2002
From : United States

Date Posted: 10/01/2003 2:23 PM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Want to make some noise concerning the tailgating issue? Try sending some email..... Good Luck!

Director of Athletics
Gene Taylor (701) 231-8985
Gene.Taylor@ndsu.nodak.edu

Director of Women's Athletics/Compliance/SWA
Lynn Dorn (701) 231-7807
Lynn.Dorn@ndsu.nodak.edu

Associate AD Development/External Relations
Erv Inniger (701) 231-8984
Erv.Inniger@ndsu.nodak.edu

Associate AD/ Team Makers Exec. Director
Pat Simmers (701) 231-9555
Pat.Simmers@ndsu.nodak.edu

Assistant AD Marketing/Media Relations
Troy Goergen (701) 231-7811
Troy.M.Goergen@ndsu.nodak.edu

Dr. Joseph Chapman - University President
PO Box 5167
University Station
Fargo, ND 58105

Phone: (701) 231-7211
Fax: (701) 231-8722
Email: joseph.chapman@ndsu.nodak.edu

[SDbison]

Come on BisonFan don't make me laugh. So Chapman wants to study the tailgate issue until March. Wish I had that long to decide how to proceed with the engineering projects I manage at work. I can practically get corporate approval to begin a project, gather requirements, design, develop and test new software and/or hardware in that time. What is Chapman doing, looking to solve the issue of world peace? What a bunch of BS. If you are so dry BisonFan go post messages about football on this site since everyone who wants alcohol at tailgating doesn't really care about the game. Leave us to worry about getting alcohol back in tailgating. By the way, I did not have a single alcoholic beverage prior to attending about 25 games in the 90's through 2002 and and I always cheer throughout the game. I was finally able to join the tailgate crowd this year and was enjoying what was OK for 10 years but now is taboo. There is no reason that a segregated area for tailgating with alcohol could not be set up for this years homecoming game. This is not rocket science. Wish these academic professionals and government workers who receive their salaries from the public could could start listeniing and responding to the majority of the people rather than those in the minority who whine and snivel. Hope you enjoy your crow BisonFan.

[Tuk]

Alright.....I think we all need to take some time and cool the jets. Lets try to refocus the topic upon the idea of getting some feedback to NDSU on our apparently various stances on the alcohol policy and its implications for future Bison football tailgating / fan enthusiasum ??? (sp?-hey give me a break, its 1:30 a.m.).....

I would like to thank BISONFAN for submitting the information on the people who are at the controls of the issue, and hope everyone sends off at least one email, call, or letter to these people to let them know your concerns.

I think it is essential to let the NDSU administration get as much feedback as possible, this way they are able to gauge the potential implications of the alcohol ban upon future fans and the NDSU tailgating culture as a whole. Remember everyone, it is up to the public to get this overturned or changed. :)

[BisonFan]

Come on BisonFan don't make me laugh. * So Chapman wants to study the tailgate issue until March. * Wish I had that long to decide how to proceed with the engineering projects I manage at work. * I can practically get corporate approval to begin a project, gather requirements, design, develop and test new software and/or hardware in that time. *What is Chapman doing, looking to solve the issue of world peace? *What a bunch of BS. *If you are so dry BisonFan go post messages about football on this site since everyone who wants alcohol at tailgating doesn't really care about the game. *Leave us to worry about getting alcohol back in tailgating. *By the way, I did not have a single alcoholic beverage prior to attending about 25 games in the 90's through 2002 and and I always cheer throughout the game. *I was finally able to join the tailgate crowd this year and was enjoying what was OK for 10 years but now is taboo. *There is no reason that a segregated area for tailgating with alcohol could not be set up for this years homecoming game. *This is not rocket science. *Wish these academic professionals and government workers who receive their salaries from the public could could start listeniing and responding to the majority of the people rather than those in the minority who whine and snivel. *Hope you enjoy your crow BisonFan. *

I'm not eating any crow and I'm far from a dry person. The weight I've added since I started college is proof of that! I'm just saying if this whole not alcohol tailgating thing is the end of the world to some of you, then I'm glad my priorities in life aren't in the same order as yours. I too think a segregated area for tailgating is what needs to be done. Just be patient and you will get it. If you can't live without beer at the football games until then, my best wishes to you because you are going to need them.

[tony]

Reading back over all the posts, I just don't like who a debate like this turns so quickly into personal attacks. Nobody on either side of the debate is evil, why not assume that they are, at worst, wrong?

Lots of people were criticized for doing their job, some for enforcing the law. For my part, I said Ed Schultz is a jackass. While I stand behind that 99% (1% of me is wondering if I'm besmirching the reputation of jackasses everywhere by including Schultz in their company), even the loudest, dumbest, most egregious jackass on the planet can, in theory, be correct on occasion.

That's why a little reflection can go a long way. Why does this issue tick me off so much? Does the other person have a point? Where is the other person coming from? Is there a middle ground?

The political reality is this (in my view): Chapman can't just arbitrarily change policy without going from one shitstorm to another.

If NDSU was a business, it'd be easy to change policy to please their customers. I really doubt the people complaining about the lack of enforcement of tailgating laws attend Bison football games, while the tailgaters most certainly do.

NDSU is not a business though, it's primarily a state institution and the people raising hell over booze in the parking lot or whatever have a say in how it is run.

Personally, I think they were objecting more to what they perceived as selective enforcement of city law than the demon rum. If it is clear that no law is being violated, then I doubt there'd be any significant objection to changing the rules to allow booze before Bison games. Clearly, there are other issues that Chapman is considering besides public opinion. Foremost, NDSU seems very concerned about alchohol abuse among the student population.

It's not just knee-jerk anti-NDSU and anti-alcohol fervor driving the no-tailgating-booze arguments. There are some principle-driven arguments to be considered. Chapman is right to take his time on this.

Just so you know, I've only been tailgating twice and didn't have any booze either time. To me having a beer and brat should be relaxing. I just couldn't relax while knowing I was breaking the law. I did sneak booze in the Dacotah Field for the Blizzard Bowl, but it was so frigging cold that I couldn't really drink much of it. OTOH, I've come to Bison games extremely drunk on more than one occasion, thanks to pregames at the Turf. I'm not proud of myself but there you have it.

Ne quid nimis.

[BisonFan]

Well said Tony!

[JBB]

thanks for putting it into perspective Tony.

I have never tailgated at an NDSU sporting event, but have on many occasions brought in booze, normally bacardi miniatures to mix with coke, and have rarely arrived without at least a glass of wine under my belt. Much more than that in the old days.

So far this year we have tailgated at the red lobster twice and in my Moms backyard with the BBQ. Its been a lot of fun. My aunt wants to go to wings next time. Its fun over there too. A great pre game spot and an easy walk if you imbide.

I enjoy the games emensly and did look forward to bringing my RV into the lot for the first 2 games but it didnt happen. Next year, booze or no. I am planning to bring it. I have the entire situation scoped out. Its almost 400 miles round trip and I cant leave it at the FFD overnight so I need a campground set up etc. Its going to be a hassle but it will be fun. Will I have booze in the camper. No way man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless NDSU changes the rules, but, Ill have to be sober as a judge to get that thing out of there.

Its all about responsibility and NDSU is in a big lose lose right now. Take it slow and easy. Enjoy yourselves at the game. Others will learn from you.

[Bisonguy]

Here's Chief Magnus' opinion submission is Today's The Forum:Other views: Tailgating dispute puts police in no-win situation
(http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=41325)

and here's Joseph Chapman's panel for tailgating:


Chapman names tailgating panel
Forum staff reports
The Forum - 10/02/2003

North Dakota State University President Joseph Chapman has named a committee to consider whether alcohol should be allowed at football games at the Fargodome.

Athletic Director Gene Taylor will be the chairman. The committee will make recommendations to Chapman by March 15, 2004. A final decision will be made prior to the 2004-05 school year.

Committee members include:

Prakash Mathew, dean of student life; Holly Bergo, health educator; Laura Oster-Aaland, director of orientation/student life; Karla Thoennes, residence life associate director; Nona Wood, associate director of student rights; Clayton Neighbors, assistant professor of psychology; Rob Sobolik, Fargodome; Troy Goergen, assistant director of marketing/athletics; Tim Sellnow, athletic faculty; Dan Mostad, student body president; Sherri Schmidt, alumni association associate executive director; Joan Deal, Team Makers; Jane Vangsness, student from athletics; and an as yet unnamed appointee by Fargo Mayor Bruce Furness.



Even Eddie Schultz is proclaiming that Bison fans should be able to crack a cold one at tailgating. :o

[bisonaudit]

Beginning with Prakash (who’s a great guy by the way) I’ve got the first 6 solidly in the ‘prohibition camp’ and the next 6 (Sobolik to Deal) in the ‘pro-choice, with reasonable controls to prevent the University from getting sued when kids who would be drunk in the parking lot anyway, get drunk in the parking lot, camp’. Looks like it’s a jump ball for the final two committee members, making the Mayor’s selection very interesting.

I don’t envy Jane, the student athlete representative. She’s going to be getting her ear bent by everyone in sight.

As Tony said this is an issue on which reasonable people can disagree. People on both sides have principled arguments for their position. Fortunately, that doesn't mean that they are right.

Adults in this country do not need to be protected from themselves. Children do. We need laws to protect innocent people from others who would do them harm. For me that's where this arguement begins and ends.

Allow tailgaiting with the necessary controls to ensure that the university doesn't get sued when someone, does something stupid. Which is inevitable, regardless of what the rules are.

The President is correct to take some time, go through the process and reach a principled decision supported by the university community and the city as reflected by the committee membership. In the mean time I don't think much has changed in the way of tailgating from this time last year.

[JBB]

Again!!! Hear, hear hear!!!!!!

[BisonBryce]

I hope they can make tailgating happen. Alerus this weekend i thought was awesome and really it was pretty tame, yet very fun. that was my first bison tailgating event of hopefully many more to come.

sue fans and bison fans mingled together and we all had a good time. i think if the school feels it will be like that (versus some of the stuff i've heard about from the past) then it would have a good chance passing.

und seemed to do a good job organizing everything and being prepared.

anyone know who owns the done-up RV with the bison paint job? im pondering doing something along those lines to my green ford. i was wondering how to get a hold of some stencil molds for the art work. any suggestions there? i forgot to ask them on saturday.

also, does SCSU (SCCC) allow tailgating?


thanks,
bryce

[JBB]

Yes, you tailgate just to the east of the stadium. There are a lot of BISON fans there. Its a great game in a horrible stadium.

[roadwarrior]

I believe you mean the west side of the st cloud stadium (using that word generously). Right across from the entrance.

[GFBison]

Congratulations to the Bison tailgaters that came to the game in Grand Forks. *I have a friend who works in security at the Alerus and he said the Bison Fans were better behaved than the Sioux fans. *

The biggest problem they have is getting people to leave after the game, he said when he asked the Fargo fans to go they did.

He also said UND promotesTailgating, but doesn't provide any security or take any responsibility for any incidents.

[BisonBryce]

yeah it was such a nice day that everyone wanted to just start up again where we left off before the game.

security/logistics would have to be an issue that is presented to get tailgating at the fdome.

tailgating i think is important for the school/program(obviously not do or die). while i still want to drive 3+ hours to catch a few games, fellow alums and others would find it more enjoyable of a weekend to be able to pack up their trucks/rv's with a couple coolers of food and beer and make a full day of it while getting into the spirit of things. yes, tailgating promotes school spirit and has potential to bring in lots of cash for a school/city i think.

i'd rather give (more of) my money to fargo/ndsu than to give it to places like st. cloud(community college) and und(pay em for the pizza).

is there anything i can do to help?

[Bisonguy]

Nothing real new on the tailgating issue, but there's a little news about what they're trying to figure out. From The Forum: http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=46888