What would Gene Taylor & Joe Chapman Have Done?

[CaBisonFan]

Would Chapman and Taylor have been satisfied with the status quo... or would they have pursued an FBS conference and a move up? They ignored the naysayers and got NDSU into a position to win 9 straight FCS championships. And the naysayers were many. "Oh... we'll get demolished by Minnesota." That type of stuff. My feeling is that after 4 or 5 national championships they would have had NDSU on the move... with a vision for the future. They would have recognized the current environment as being a lot like the DII 90s situation. And... they wouldn't have sat on their hands concerning a potential conference. They would have been aggressive as hell. The current coaching and recruiting demise would never have been allowed to happen. There was great leadership in the 1960s when the dynasty was initially built. They brought Mudra and Erhardt to town to build a championship program. That dynasty isn't gone... but it's definitely taking a serious nap. Something needs to be done in the leadership aspect of things. Perhaps a new coaching staff is needed... but that's small thinking. I share the concern over going to toilet bowls. It's bothersome... but in a good conference there would be big-name programs coming to the Fargodome... and the travel to those programs would be great. The number of empty blue seats at the dome is alarming. I'm betting that the players are feeling it big-time.... and I'm betting that it's not helping recruiting. Whose fault is it? Perhaps it's the fault of the coaches... but I believe that the problem is much, much bigger. The program is in deep trouble. The apathy is deafening. And finally... I'm betting that Chapman and Taylor would have been pushing for a new on-campus stadium where the university could control the environment. Ask a Minnesota fan whether an on-campus stadium has made a difference there... and ask them how much fun it was to share the Metrodome with the Vikings.

[CaBisonFan]

Further thoughts... 1. New on-campus stadium with more comfortable larger seats for today's big (and elderly) people. A dome of course. Maybe 35K seats? San Diego State has a new stadium that size. It's working out beautifully. Make it just big enough to satisfy FBS standards. 2. Much better seating for the students. Not shoved up into a corner. Study Michigan and Missouri seating. No student support you say? Treat them like they're important. It's an egg and chicken problem. 3. In a new coaching staff don't be limited to hiring a former coach or player. Bohl was the perfect fit for the transition. 4. Get university leadership that wants to support a football dynasty and a great basketball program. Or pressure the current leadership to pull their heads out of their a.... 5. Move up to FBS. Preferably to a conference like the Mountain West... where there are very recognizable teams and great destinations. 6. Build a new from-the-ground-up basketball 'arena' with larger seats and leg room for adults. The renovation was a joke. People don't like going there. SDSU and USD have real DI state of the art basketball arenas. Earth to NDSU... you're competing for the same athletes. 7. Attach a marching band facility to the new football stadium with plenty of room for uniforms, equipment and a big rehearsal room. Have easy access to the equipment via a couple of big garage doors. Promote the marching band big-time. Give participation scholarships. That's how most of the big university programs do it. How do I know that? I went to Arizona State where the program was built with scholarship money. We had 350 in the band. Everyone was getting scholarship money. I went there on a full music scholarship to get my masters. A free ride... financed by state money. In return... I participated in several music groups. That was a part of the deal. We were treated the same as the athletes. 8. More support for the cheerleaders. Give them a practice-warmup room at the new stadium... and space for their uniforms. Same would apply to a dance team. 9. Make the football dressing room a palace. 10. Realize that Joe Chapman... the old president who made the FCS dynasty possible... was the victim of a political firing. It's important to understand the politics here. At the state level... he was viewed as an NDSU-only leader. The UND people at the state level resented him big-time... and the success that NDSU was having. They wanted to level the playing field. The president's house issue was 'used' as a way to get rid of him. A strong slap on the hand would have handled the situation. NDSU people actually bought into his firing. So... the person who stuck his neck out for the university was punished because of big influence from up north and the media that supported them. It's my opinion that NDSU didn't support him properly. Why do I bring this up? Because it's time to have... and to support... a real leader again... someone who bleeds NDSU. Someone with some guts and vision. This... addresses the real problem. The coaching staff problem is a symptom of what's happening in smoke-filled rooms at the state level. Losing to SDSU, UND, and USD is a symptom. Not the disease. We're attacking the symptom. Like sucking down cough drops to stop a cough... when it's really pneumonia. Do you treat a cough? Of course you do. But people are gonna have to get serious about what's happening. Or the dynasty 'will' be gone for good.

[BigHorns]

This feels like the FBS thread all over again. A couple quick thoughts.

1) almost 100% agree, with the caveat of joining a "good conference" as you mentioned being a requirement. There's some deader than dead FBS programs due to fan apathy, not a lock that it succeeds if you perform poorly and have bad conference mates. Fans want to see quality football. Look at UMass or FIU if you want to see mistakes. SHSU headed that way too, and there are others. MWC like you mentioned would be a homerun, with the right coaches.

2) 35k football stadium and brand new basketball arena would be awesome, but just don't know that the money is there now. We're likely talking over $500m for a 35k dome and new arena. I see the current Fargodome project as a good intermediate step, that will bring us up to modern standards, and create a good fan experience. Also, look at FAU as an example that made a huge splash in basketball (Final Four) with much worse facilities. Coaching matters, and has the biggest impact. Fans will support a winning product.

3) If we can't ante up and replace Entz, then nothing else matters really. That's terminal disease at this point. Would be like giving a deathbed patient a facelift. I wouldn't even consider donating to other items if they aren't willing to address the coaching.

[taper]

I strongly suspect Chapman and Taylor *did* reach out to the FBS conferences and the answer was universally "no".

[CaBisonFan]

I strongly suspect Chapman and Taylor *did* reach out to the FBS conferences and the answer was universally "no".
Possibly... but at that point in time NDSU didn't have the resume that it does now.

[CaBisonFan]

This feels like the FBS thread all over again. A couple quick thoughts.
. It's not. .......

[56BISON73]

I strongly suspect Chapman and Taylor *did* reach out to the FBS conferences and the answer was universally "no".

You would be correct. But lets not ruin another mental masturbation party.

[CaBisonFan]

You would be correct. But lets not ruin another mental masturbation party.Sorry that I interrupted yours.

[Hammerhead]

I don't think there is enough money for that long list of items you want to have at NDSU for new stadiums, dressing and equipment rooms, scholarships for the marching band, etc. Trying to compare NDSU to ASU with over 60,000 students on campus and another 60K attending online is a big stretch.




Further thoughts... 1. New on-campus stadium with more comfortable larger seats for today's big (and elderly) people. A dome of course. Maybe 35K seats? San Diego State has a new stadium that size. It's working out beautifully. Make it just big enough to satisfy FBS standards. 2. Much better seating for the students. Not shoved up into a corner. Study Michigan and Missouri seating. No student support you say? Treat them like they're important. It's an egg and chicken problem. 3. In a new coaching staff don't be limited to hiring a former coach or player. Bohl was the perfect fit for the transition. 4. Get university leadership that wants to support a football dynasty and a great basketball program. Or pressure the current leadership to pull their heads out of their a.... 5. Move up to FBS. Preferably to a conference like the Mountain West... where there are very recognizable teams and great destinations. 6. Build a new from-the-ground-up basketball 'arena' with larger seats and leg room for adults. The renovation was a joke. People don't like going there. SDSU and USD have real DI state of the art basketball arenas. Earth to NDSU... you're competing for the same athletes. 7. Attach a marching band facility to the new football stadium with plenty of room for uniforms, equipment and a big rehearsal room. Have easy access to the equipment via a couple of big garage doors. Promote the marching band big-time. Give participation scholarships. That's how most of the big university programs do it. How do I know that? I went to Arizona State where the program was built with scholarship money. We had 350 in the band. Everyone was getting scholarship money. I went there on a full music scholarship to get my masters. A free ride... financed by state money. In return... I participated in several music groups. That was a part of the deal. We were treated the same as the athletes. 8. More support for the cheerleaders. Give them a practice-warmup room at the new stadium... and space for their uniforms. Same would apply to a dance team. 9. Make the football dressing room a palace. 10. Realize that Joe Chapman... the old president who made the FCS dynasty possible... was the victim of a political firing. It's important to understand the politics here. At the state level... he was viewed as an NDSU-only leader. The UND people at the state level resented him big-time... and the success that NDSU was having. They wanted to level the playing field. The president's house issue was 'used' as a way to get rid of him. A strong slap on the hand would have handled the situation. NDSU people actually bought into his firing. So... the person who stuck his neck out for the university was punished because of big influence from up north and the media that supported them. It's my opinion that NDSU didn't support him properly. Why do I bring this up? Because it's time to have... and to support... a real leader again... someone who bleeds NDSU. Someone with some guts and vision. This... addresses the real problem. The coaching staff problem is a symptom of what's happening in smoke-filled rooms at the state level. Losing to SDSU, UND, and USD is a symptom. Not the disease. We're attacking the symptom. Like sucking down cough drops to stop a cough... when it's really pneumonia. Do you treat a cough? Of course you do. But people are gonna have to get serious about what's happening. Or the dynasty 'will' be gone for good.

[Kevin]

Further thoughts...

1. New on-campus stadium with more comfortable larger seats for today's big (and elderly) people. A dome of course. Maybe 35K seats? San Diego State has a new stadium that size. It's working out beautifully. Make it just big enough to satisfy FBS standards.

2. Much better seating for the students. Not shoved up into a corner. Study Michigan and Missouri seating. No student support you say? Treat them like they're important. It's an egg and chicken problem.

3. In a new coaching staff don't be limited to hiring a former coach or player. Bohl was the perfect fit for the transition.

4. Get university leadership that wants to support a football dynasty and a great basketball program. Or pressure the current leadership to pull their heads out of their a....

5. Move up to FBS. Preferably to a conference like the Mountain West... where there are very recognizable teams and great destinations.

6. Build a new from-the-ground-up basketball 'arena' with larger seats and leg room for adults. The renovation was a joke. People don't like going there. SDSU and USD have real DI state of the art basketball arenas. Earth to NDSU... you're competing for the same athletes.

7. Attach a marching band facility to the new football stadium with plenty of room for uniforms, equipment and a big rehearsal room. Have easy access to the equipment via a couple of big garage doors. Promote the marching band big-time. Give participation scholarships. That's how most of the big university programs do it. How do I know that? I went to Arizona State where the program was built with scholarship money. We had 350 in the band. Everyone was getting scholarship money. I went there on a full music scholarship to get my masters. A free ride... financed by state money. In return... I participated in several music groups. That was a part of the deal. We were treated the same as the athletes.

8. More support for the cheerleaders. Give them a practice-warmup room at the new stadium... and space for their uniforms. Same would apply to a dance team.

9. Make the football dressing room a palace. 10. Realize that Joe Chapman... the old president who made the FCS dynasty possible... was the victim of a political firing. It's important to understand the politics here. At the state level... he was viewed as an NDSU-only leader. The UND people at the state level resented him big-time... and the success that NDSU was having. They wanted to level the playing field. The president's house issue was 'used' as a way to get rid of him. A strong slap on the hand would have handled the situation. NDSU people actually bought into his firing. So... the person who stuck his neck out for the university was punished because of big influence from up north and the media that supported them. It's my opinion that NDSU didn't support him properly. Why do I bring this up? Because it's time to have... and to support... a real leader again... someone who bleeds NDSU. Someone with some guts and vision. This... addresses the real problem. The coaching staff problem is a symptom of what's happening in smoke-filled rooms at the state level. Losing to SDSU, UND, and USD is a symptom. Not the disease. We're attacking the symptom. Like sucking down cough drops to stop a cough... when it's really pneumonia. Do you treat a cough? Of course you do. But people are gonna have to get serious about what's happening. Or the dynasty 'will' be gone for good.


Fixing this so I can read it when I have time later because CABisonFan is an unironically great football mind.

[CaBisonFan]

I don't think there is enough money for that long list of items you want to have at NDSU for new stadiums, dressing and equipment rooms, scholarships for the marching band, etc. Trying to compare NDSU to ASU with over 60,000 students on campus and another 60K attending online is a big stretch.Yeah... I went there. It's really big. Arizona is a pretty conservative state... but they spend their money on education for all. Anything like that at NDSU would have to be on a smaller scale... of course. If Mayville State can spend 50 million in taxpayer money to renovate its Old Main... then NDSU could expect to get 2 or 3 hundred million for a major project. And of course other funding would have to be sought after.

[Hammerhead]

That's the problem. Our legislature has an anti-NDSU bias and they aren't going to appropriate money for NDSU athletic facilities.



Yeah... I went there. It's really big. Arizona is a pretty conservative state... but they spend their money on education for all. Anything like that at NDSU would have to be on a smaller scale... of course. If Mayville State can spend 50 million in taxpayer money to renovate its Old Main... then NDSU could expect to get 2 or 3 hundred million for a major project. And of course other funding would have to be sought after.

[CaBisonFan]

That's the problem. Our legislature has an anti-NDSU bias and they aren't going to appropriate money for NDSU athletic facilities.Yup... the political power is up north.

[GCWaters]

Yeah... I went there. It's really big. Arizona is a pretty conservative state... but they spend their money on education for all. Anything like that at NDSU would have to be on a smaller scale... of course. If Mayville State can spend 50 million in taxpayer money to renovate its Old Main... then NDSU could expect to get 2 or 3 hundred million for a major project. And of course other funding would have to be sought after.

When's the last time the legislature gave any state school 2-3 hundred million for any project? This is a nice list, but it's a pipe dream, especially when we continue to lose enrollment with no end in sight....

[abc123]

That's the problem. Our legislature has an anti-NDSU bias and they aren't going to appropriate money for NDSU athletic facilities.


Yup... the political power is up north.

LOL. No it isn't and no one is getting money for athletic facilities.
Any given year, the legislature has roughly 25% with NDSU ties and 25% with UND ties give or take a few percentage points either way. And some of those are pretty loose ties. Neither school has anywhere near enough representation to dictate legislation.

[El_Chapo]

Chapman resigned in 2009 you dumshits. so NO he didnt contact FBS conferences and neither did Gene Taylor because at that time it was a wet dream.

Taylor was gone in June 2014

if CHAPMAN/TAYLOR were together in 2015-2019 10000% they'd have NDSU in Mountain West and maybe in the BIG 12 kicking ass with a 40,000+ outdoor stadium on campus.


and yes, way too many und legislators and media dipshits who wouldn't lift a finger for NDSU to get in.

[56BISON73]

Chapman resigned in 2009 you dumshits. so NO he didnt contact FBS conferences and neither did Gene Taylor because at that time it was a wet dream.

Taylor was gone in June 2014

if CHAPMAN/TAYLOR were together in 2015-2019 10000% they'd have NDSU in Mountain West and maybe in the BIG 12 kicking ass with a 40,000+ outdoor stadium on campus.


and yes, way too many und legislators and media dipshits who wouldn't lift a finger for NDSU to get in.

Youre full of shit. Gene Taylor was quoted in the paper and on the radio that he contacted the MWC and told them----"""" when you guys start discussing expansion WE want to be in the discussion""""

So quit lying you little twerp.

[CaBisonFan]

Most big progress starts with a dream... or a vision.

[Grizzled]

Chapman resigned in 2009 you dumshits. so NO he didnt contact FBS conferences and neither did Gene Taylor because at that time it was a wet dream.

Taylor was gone in June 2014

if CHAPMAN/TAYLOR were together in 2015-2019 10000% they'd have NDSU in Mountain West and maybe in the BIG 12 kicking ass with a 40,000+ outdoor stadium on campus.


and yes, way too many und legislators and media dipshits who wouldn't lift a finger for NDSU to get in.

Big12. Lol lol lol

[DCinOK]

Yes, it is officially time to panic. Apathy has indeed set in for everyone, from the top on down. Perhaps we missed our "window" to move up. All one can do now is get their crap together and change for the better. So many of you have come up with helpful suggestions, but The Top of the pyramid does NOTHING.

[SDbison]

Yes, it is officially time to panic. Apathy has indeed set in for everyone, from the top on down. Perhaps we missed our "window" to move up. All one can do now is get their crap together and change for the better. So many of you have come up with helpful suggestions, but The Top of the pyramid does NOTHING.. Long past time for Matt Larsen to go. Never liked him and he is a fake. He is responsible for the drop in expectations and performance of nearly every program except woman's basketball that had already hit rock bottom. Matt Larsen is a joke and a total loser. Get him the fuck out!

[LefseBison]

When's the last time the legislature gave any state school 2-3 hundred million for any project? This is a nice list, but it's a pipe dream, especially when we continue to lose enrollment with no end in sight....

The whole enrollment dips are really making me lose sleep. And wait until the school year 2024 when Minnesota's free college tuition program for families making under $80K kicks in and now we heard a private school, Concordia, is offering free tuition for those families under $90,000 and this is offered to students in all 50 states. I read an article that they are focusing in particular on NDSU, UND, MSUM to get students to come to Concordia instead. This is flipping nuts. My alma mater can't catch a break. A bad year for NDSU, some of it self-inflicted, of course. :evil:

[WYOBISONMAN]

Enrollment is a huge issue. Without the students, it is hard to make a move to FBS. Also, we have no geographic fit with a FBS conference. It's not happening, but we ought to be putting a product on the field that is the best in the Dakotas. This season has been a joke and highlights the short comings of our AD and coaching staff.

[kab1one]

The whole enrollment dips are really making me lose sleep. And wait until the school year 2024 when Minnesota's free college tuition program for families making under $80K kicks in and now we heard a private school, Concordia, is offering free tuition for those families under $90,000 and this is offered to students in all 50 states. I read an article that they are focusing in particular on NDSU, UND, MSUM to get students to come to Concordia instead. This is flipping nuts. My alma mater can't catch a break. A bad year for NDSU, some of it self-inflicted, of course. :evil:

Interesting what Concordia is doing. They want to get back up to at least 2k in attendance. Currently around 1,700. In essence what they are doing is becoming a property management/property owner company. Kid comes to Concordia they have to live on campus for two years. Pay room and board. This isn't part of the free program being offered. So Concordia is using free tuition to fill the dorms.

You have to wonder the quality of student and financial impacts going forward. They are able to do this as they have capacity and not having to add programs, instructors or buildings. Just a way to cover fixed costs through increased rents.

As for ND I don't know how big the impact is going to be with free Minnesota tuition. The good programs as SU, Ag, engineering and business are still going to attract talent. At 80k a year of income you are still getting plenty of aid to attend NDSU and the rest of the cost isn't as high as a Concordia or Minnesota system school.

If you lose the "right" students from lower rung programs it may not be a bad thing except for the perception of lower enrollment as those programs are way subsidized already.

[LefseBison]

Interesting what Concordia is doing. They want to get back up to at least 2k in attendance. Currently around 1,700. In essence what they are doing is becoming a property management/property owner company. Kid comes to Concordia they have to live on campus for two years. Pay room and board. This isn't part of the free program being offered. So Concordia is using free tuition to fill the dorms.

You have to wonder the quality of student and financial impacts going forward. They are able to do this as they have capacity and not having to add programs, instructors or buildings. Just a way to cover fixed costs through increased rents.

As for ND I don't know how big the impact is going to be with free Minnesota tuition. The good programs as SU, Ag, engineering and business are still going to attract talent. At 80k a year of income you are still getting plenty of aid to attend NDSU and the rest of the cost isn't as high as a Concordia or Minnesota system school.

If you lose the "right" students from lower rung programs it may not be a bad thing except for the perception of lower enrollment as those programs are way subsidized already.

Here is a quote from Ben Iverson of Concordia which touches on how Concordia can afford this: "As for affordability for the college, federal and state aid are contributing, as well as existing Concordia scholarships and payments from students for housing, food, fees and other costs.

“We’ve done the math and we are definitely banking on the fact that we think this will be attractive to more students,” Iverson said. He says having more students on campus is more sustainable: “As opposed to a smaller number of students who pay more.”

So what he says is akin to what you are saying - getting students to fill dorms. Should be "interesting" to see how NDSU's enrollment is responding to these 2 free tuition programs. The mid- and western North Dakota schools will not be impacted as much due to proximity and I doubt UND quite as much as NDSU. NDSU is absolutely stuck in this due to our stones'-throw from the Minnesota border. I recall earlier this summer when the Minnesota State Legislature approved the free-tuition program and there was a big headline in the Forum by President Cook - calling it "catastrophic" for NDSU. Of course, the drama-filled word made headlines.

I did talk to an NDSU person who said they were calling donors of North Dakota students-only scholarships, asking them to consider adding Minnesota students to their scholarship recipients (If they had not already).

[GCWaters]

Interesting what Concordia is doing. They want to get back up to at least 2k in attendance. Currently around 1,700. In essence what they are doing is becoming a property management/property owner company. Kid comes to Concordia they have to live on campus for two years. Pay room and board. This isn't part of the free program being offered. So Concordia is using free tuition to fill the dorms.

You have to wonder the quality of student and financial impacts going forward. They are able to do this as they have capacity and not having to add programs, instructors or buildings. Just a way to cover fixed costs through increased rents.

As for ND I don't know how big the impact is going to be with free Minnesota tuition. The good programs as SU, Ag, engineering and business are still going to attract talent. At 80k a year of income you are still getting plenty of aid to attend NDSU and the rest of the cost isn't as high as a Concordia or Minnesota system school.

If you lose the "right" students from lower rung programs it may not be a bad thing except for the perception of lower enrollment as those programs are way subsidized already.

All of those "good" programs, except business, are down significantly in the last five years...

[primespareribs]

Meanwhile...

Undefeated James Madison appeals to NCAA Board of Directors chair to play in bowl game:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/undefeated-james-madison-appeals-to-ncaa-board-of-directors-chair-to-play-in-bowl-game/ar-AA1jxtSa?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=d8672630d3e74169aaf0ff605650f831&ei=33