Maine Post Game Thoughts & Discussion

[Kevin]

1) QB run.
2) I correctly predicted 90% of play calls today. Not joking.
2) QB run.
3) QB run.
4) Cole is electric. If this is the offense you want to run we should be a two qb system.
5) I swear on lakes children that up until like last week I thought Maine was a Canadian province.
6) QB run.
7) Williams deserves better than this. Not just the lack of Carries but when we do run the backs it’s all our of shotgun. Not bison football.
8) QB run.
9) Wisiensjekdbdjki is a stud. Please tell me he has enough eligibility to come back next year.
10) QB run.

[SoCalBison]

1. Abysmally slow start, but pleased the Bison still scored 44 points.
2. Too many stupid penalties.
3. Defensive backfield looks like it will be fine.
4. Cole Payton is a hell of a runner. And his passing game should get better.
5. Defense played big-time today.

[BisonCardinal]

Game ended like it was supposed to. Wasn't pretty, but this has been happening for how many years? Go Bison!!!

[Kevin]

How about some love for cam and that deep bomb that was dropped? Would love to see that kind of thing called more.

[louis13]

Roehl needs to be demoted. The play calling is abysmal. I am beyond sick of QB zone read. Please can we get back to a west coast offense? Dare I say pull up some old game film from the Vigen era and dust off that playbook. Also just retire all plays from the shotgun, run everything under center. This offensive play calling has been atrocious the last 5 years and I’m fed up. Roehl is best suited as a position coach (and I do think he is a good one), but he cannot coordinate an offense and there is no improvement, he is already at his ceiling and it’s not good enough. Time to move on (sadly, as I respect his dedication to the program)

[Kevin]

Roehl needs to be demoted. The play calling is abysmal. I am beyond sick of QB zone read. Please can we get back to a west coast offense? Dare I say pull up some old game film from the Vigen era and dust off that playbook. Also just retire all plays from the shotgun, run everything under center. This offensive play calling has been atrocious the last 5 years and I’m fed up. Roehl is best suited as a position coach (and I do think he is a good one), but he cannot coordinate an offense and there is no improvement, he is already at his ceiling and it’s not good enough. Time to move on (sadly, as I respect his dedication to the program)

roehl would be much better suited to be head coach than OC

i know that's weird to say but he brings a ton of value everywhere else. just can't call plays bro.

[heffray]

Roehl needs to be demoted. The play calling is abysmal. I am beyond sick of QB zone read. Please can we get back to a west coast offense? Dare I say pull up some old game film from the Vigen era and dust off that playbook. Also just retire all plays from the shotgun, run everything under center. This offensive play calling has been atrocious the last 5 years and I’m fed up. Roehl is best suited as a position coach (and I do think he is a good one), but he cannot coordinate an offense and there is no improvement, he is already at his ceiling and it’s not good enough. Time to move on (sadly, as I respect his dedication to the program)

Louis comin out of nowhere with solid post.

[heffray]

Should have been 35-0 after the first half. But no, we have an OC who thinks he’s still calling plays for West Fargo HS.

[Kevin]

Should have been 35-0 after the first half. But no, we have an OC who thinks he’s still calling plays for West Fargo HS.

there's a few issues with that.

but most glaring is eventually we're going to run into valley teams (plural) that can shut that shit down from the jump.

then what happens bro?

then.

what.

happens?

[heffray]

there's a few issues with that.

but most glaring is eventually we're going to run into valley teams (plural) that can shut that shit down from the jump.

then what happens bro?

then.

what.

happens?

Not just Valley teams… we won’t get past the Quarters with those types of play calls. Dumb as shit.

[mtoutfitter]

Honestly I'm much more concerned about O Line play the last 2 games...way more than play calling. Just my opinion. Roll Herd!!

[Kevin]

Honestly I'm much more concerned about O Line play the last 2 games...way more than play calling. Just my opinion.

hard to block when the entire defense knows the play bro

[tolnabison]

I agree Roehl's play calling is pretty questionable at times, but...

When Montana St runs Mellott and Chambers tonight 30+ times vs SDSU tonight and if they win, people will crown Vigen.

I know there is a difference in play calls and creativeness. But both mindsets are playing 11 on 11 rather then 10 on 11.

And I am one that's been anti-Roehl.

[KSBisonFan]

Short yardage conversions the first 2 weeks are terrible for a so-called physical, power run offense.

Congrats to Roehl for proving me wrong. I didn't think we could be any more heavy with QB run than last year.

If we continue with dumb penalties and poor execution on short yardage situations, we'll lose multiple games this year.

[HerdBot]

Props to the defense. Just a dominant effort

If half the runs are QB runs and 90% out of shotgun, might as well start the QB who is an electric runner. Cam is solid and steafy but CP is a threat to score everytime he touches the football

Yes, it works vs mediicre teams

[louis13]

roehl would be much better suited to be head coach than OC

i know that's weird to say but he brings a ton of value everywhere else. just can't call plays bro.

I definitely think he has the temperament and energy to be a head coach and agree he brings a ton of value other than play calling. I do question his ability to diagnose and fix schematic issues or make adjustments (as the head coach) if he can’t/doesn’t recognize the issues in his own offense. It’s tough though because not many people have been more dedicated to the program or more invested so it’s hard to be critical of him.

[mtoutfitter]

Props to the defense. Just a dominant effort

If half the runs are QB runs and 90% out of shotgun, might as well start the QB who is an electric runner. Cam is solid and steafy but CP is a threat to score everytime he touches the football

Yes, it works vs mediicre teams

Everyone realizes that Miller threw 20 times today right?

[Bisonator98]

Everyone realizes that Miller threw 20 times today right?

Should have been more really. Maine's run defense is legit, their pass defense is the weak link.

[louis13]

Props to the defense. Just a dominant effort

If half the runs are QB runs and 90% out of shotgun, might as well start the QB who is an electric runner. Cam is solid and steafy but CP is a threat to score everytime he touches the football

Yes, it works vs mediicre teams

It seems like the most explosive QB runs are generally from designed passes. QB takes off after the first or second read isn’t open and the DBs are already committed to coverage created some wide open running lanes (seems to generally happen vs man, but can be some big gaps vs zone at times as well). Just my observations.

[louis13]

Everyone realizes that Miller threw 20 times today right?

24 pass attempts and 23 QB rush attempts. I guess that’s balanced

[Bison03]

We score 44 points, rush for 264, pass for 192, and people still complain about the offense and the play calling. Never change Bisonville!! Lol.

[HerdistheWord]

We score 44 points, rush for 264, pass for 192, and people still complain about the offense and the play calling. Never change Bisonville!! Lol.

Our offense isn’t as bad as some make it out to be, but….our defense played a big roll in that scoreboard early on.

[Bisonator98]

We score 44 points, rush for 264, pass for 192, and people still complain about the offense and the play calling. Never change Bisonville!! Lol.

Do you watch the games or just look at the stats?

[Hammerhead]

We score 44 points, rush for 264, pass for 192, and people still complain about the offense and the play calling. Never change Bisonville!! Lol.

Like the guy at the game early in the 2nd half complaining that we were losing both sides at the line of scrimmage.

[NDSU92]

there's a few issues with that.

but most glaring is eventually we're going to run into valley teams (plural) that can shut that shit down from the jump.

then what happens bro?

then.

what.

happens?

Then what happens?

QB run

[Kevin]

Then what happens?

QB run

…fuck

(ten)

[KC_Hats]

You do realize that Tyler Roehl's mom passed away this week. It had to be a very emotional week for him. My prayers go out to Tyler and his family on the passing of his mom. Go Bison!

[TAILG8R]

You do realize that Tyler Roehl's mom passed away this week. It had to be a very emotional week for him. My prayers go out to Tyler and his family on the passing of his mom. Go Bison!

I didn’t know she also died every week for the past three years.


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[Bisonator98]

You do realize that Tyler Roehl's mom passed away this week. It had to be a very emotional week for him. My prayers go out to Tyler and his family on the passing of his mom. Go Bison!

I'm sure it was maybe Hedberg should have been calling the plays today. But this is pretty typical Roehl play calling every week!

[HerdBot]

Everyone realizes that Miller threw 20 times today right?

I think Cam was solid again. He threw 18. My point is if all we are going to do is the QB run, Cole needs more touches

67-33 run pass ratio

[KC_Hats]

Classy. Quite a guy you must be.


I didn’t know she also died every week for the past three years.


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[TAILG8R]

Classy. Quite a guy you must be.

Dude. Not one person was complaining today about him having one off game.

He’s been a crappy OC for years.


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[totoinfl]

roehl would be much better suited to be head coach than OC

i know that's weird to say but he brings a ton of value everywhere else. just can't call plays bro.

Maybe HC of SW NE Tech


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[Kevin]

Maybe HC of SW NE Tech


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Isn’t that where Phoenix sproles transferred to

[mtoutfitter]

I didn’t know she also died every week for the past three years.


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Wow. Just wow.

[HerdBot]

It seems like the most explosive QB runs are generally from designed passes. QB takes off after the first or second read isn’t open and the DBs are already committed to coverage created some wide open running lanes (seems to generally happen vs man, but can be some big gaps vs zone at times as well). Just my observations.

Thats called winning despite play calling lol

[TAILG8R]

Thats called winning despite play calling lol

How dare you!!! Tyler Rigel is the best OC in the country!!!


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[totoinfl]

You do realize that Tyler Roehl's mom passed away this week. It had to be a very emotional week for him. My prayers go out to Tyler and his family on the passing of his mom. Go Bison!

That stinks…surprised someone else wasn’t calling plays.


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[totoinfl]

Isn’t that where Phoenix sproles transferred to

That SE Vocational school for the dancing gifted


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[TAILG8R]

So much for that big sit down that Entz and all the coaches had about their shitty offenses last year after the championship game. Which he himself admitted happened. Although he didn’t use the word shitty

He did essentially say that Roehl buckles under pressure and calls too many “safety blanket” plays.

It was just a couple weeks before the season Entz was quoted as saying we need to spread the ball around and get the passing game going and attack all parts of the field.


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[totoinfl]

Bunnies and Kitties in a tight one. 13-10 hassenfeffer. Litter box users just threw INT deep into bunny land


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[HerdBot]

Bunnies and Kitties in a tight one. 13-10 hassenfeffer. Litter box users just threw INT deep into bunny land


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Then MSU gets the ball back at the 1 on a blocked punt and their vaginal offense in shotgun cant get a yard. Vigen has never heard of a QB sneak. Put the damn QB under center

[Kevin]

Then MSU gets the ball back at the 1 on a blocked punt and their vaginal offense in shotgun cant get a yard. Vigen has never heard of a QB sneak. Put the damn QB under center

He’s auditioning for Ndsu bro.

[totoinfl]

He’s auditioning for Ndsu bro.

Lol. I was thinking the same thing.


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[totoinfl]

Felines driving again


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[Kevin]

Bama and Texas is a good game too bros I keep hoping ewers will get concussed so I can see the manning kid

[totoinfl]

Bama and Texas is a good game too bros I keep hoping ewers will get concussed so I can see the manning kid

Can’t watch ESPN….Spectrum/Charter and Disney pissing in each other’s cereal so they all blocked here


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[totoinfl]

Play of the gaming coming. 4 1 from the 2 for furballs


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[mtoutfitter]

31 QB carries for Cats so far.

[totoinfl]

Kitties just shat the bed.


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[SoCalBison]

Exciting finish. SDSU is vulnerable. And what's with the new all-black uni's? Dirt is supposed to scare us?

[GreenfieldBison]

Do you watch the games or just look at the stats?

The data is all that matters.

[LefseBison]

Exciting finish. SDSU is vulnerable. And what's with the new all-black uni's? Dirt is supposed to scare us?

I was surprised it was this close and it could have gone the other way.

[BattleBorn]

1. Cole is slippery
2. Fantastic tailgate today
3. Why is it so hard to get people into the Dome before kickoff? The FFD staff have no problem hassling us to leave while the band is still playing. Why can’t they show the same urgency getting people in?
4. I’m really not sure what we have this year. D looks strong, o looks like it won’t handle a good team very well. Yet a couple blowouts to start the year.

[Bison03]

Do you watch the games or just look at the stats?
I watched every play from my seats inside the dome. Were there bad plays? Sure. Did we not finish drives with tds in the first half, absolutely. But we were still moving the ball in the first half, then we continued to move the ball and score 4 tds in the 2nd half. My standards are high for this team but good god. We dominated and blew them out!

[heffray]

I watched every play from my seats inside the dome. Were there bad plays? Sure. Did we not finish drives with tds in the first half, absolutely. But we were still moving the ball in the first half, then we continued to move the ball and score 4 tds in the 2nd half. My standards are high for this team but good god. We dominated and blew them out!

Bud, we ran 4 straight QB runs from the 2 yard line.

[HerdBot]

I watched every play from my seats inside the dome. Were there bad plays? Sure. Did we not finish drives with tds in the first half, absolutely. But we were still moving the ball in the first half, then we continued to move the ball and score 4 tds in the 2nd half. My standards are high for this team but good god. We dominated and blew them out!

Rewstched it and Cam was great. Take away thr dropped bomb and the TD on thr QB sneak and the 1st half is awezome. Just had poorly timed penalties

[GreenfieldBison]

Bud, we ran 4 straight QB runs from the 2 yard line.

Who won?

10c

[Son of a Bison]

Wish we would have punched it in for TD rather than get stopped at the 1 as makes me wonder who do we rely on to get that 1 yard when it’s crunch time.
Defense looks better than last year same time of season and I hope continues to improve. Best Bison defenses of past have gotten better every month and peaked in playoffs. Nice to see us getting turnovers as they result from team D but also athletes making plays. Defense wins championships.

Cam Miller interview on 1660 after game was very classy. He just says the right thing and seems genuine.

Phase 2 of IPF is pretty awesome. I hope out athletes stay humble and have hunger to get better.

[Bison03]

Absolutely the biggest takeaway from the first 2 games, other then Cole Peyton is a freak, has been the defense. Lots of question makes coming in, especially on the back end. But they have played pretty amazing. Definitely looking more like the usual dominating defense we are used to

[ndsubison1]

Roehl needs to be demoted. The play calling is abysmal. I am beyond sick of QB zone read. Please can we get back to a west coast offense? Dare I say pull up some old game film from the Vigen era and dust off that playbook. Also just retire all plays from the shotgun, run everything under center. This offensive play calling has been atrocious the last 5 years and I’m fed up. Roehl is best suited as a position coach (and I do think he is a good one), but he cannot coordinate an offense and there is no improvement, he is already at his ceiling and it’s not good enough. Time to move on (sadly, as I respect his dedication to the program)

The offense has opened up and we are spreading it out. We have more weapons. Not sure what more people want. The 2 QB system is here to stay. Cole has to be a part of the offense. Mathis is a true #1 wide out. I think the receivers are better. You adapt to your personnel. The TE look more involved? Im sure we will ground and pound at some point. Why give Williams a bunch of carries when we dont need him, we need him in December. The defense looks faster, but I dont think EWU or Maine are playoff teams. Edit: Apparently EWU took a decent Fresno State team to OT.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Bama and Texas is a good game too bros I keep hoping ewers will get concussed so I can see the manning kid

Manning kid ain't ready from what I've read. He needs time allegedly.. If Ewers is any good, he's gonna leave after this year anyway.

[MyOhMy]

I didn’t know she also died every week for the past three years.


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That's cold... but I still chuckled. :innocent:

[Bison03]

This offensive play calling has been atrocious the last 5 years and I’m fed up. Roehl is best suited as a position coach (and I do think he is a good one), but he cannot coordinate an offense and there is no improvement, he is already at his ceiling and it’s not good enough. Time to move on (sadly, as I respect his dedication to the program)

So during the timeframe of this “atrocious” play calling you claim to have seen. NDSU’s record has been 64-7 with 4 championship appearances and 3 titles. Seriously, the people on here bitching about play calling are absolutely 100% wrong and can be backed up by facts of the success. You are wrong. Simple as that.

[scottietohottie]

Wish we would have punched it in for TD rather than get stopped at the 1 as makes me wonder who do we rely on to get that 1 yard when it’s crunch time.


Teh quarter back duh eh.

[BisonHorns]

So during the timeframe of this “atrocious” play calling you claim to have seen. NDSU’s record has been 64-7 with 4 championship appearances and 3 titles. Seriously, the people on here bitching about play calling are absolutely 100% wrong and can be backed up by facts of the success. You are wrong. Simple as that.

Are we winning those games because of the offensive play calling or in spite of the offensive play calling? Nothing wrong with wanting a weak area to improve.

[BisonHorns]

Do you think we set out to have the two quarterbacks be the top running players for all those games when we have a plethora or receivers and running backs?

[heffray]

So during the timeframe of this “atrocious” play calling you claim to have seen. NDSU’s record has been 64-7 with 4 championship appearances and 3 titles. Seriously, the people on here bitching about play calling are absolutely 100% wrong and can be backed up by facts of the success. You are wrong. Simple as that.

You’re saying I can’t point to multiple specific play calls in multiple games since 2019 that either almost cost us games or literally did cost us games?

How much time do you have?

The “who won the game you bunch of whiners” line of bullshit is so maddening it makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a twig. Seriously? That’s what you’re going with? Fucking stupid.

[heffray]

Are we winning those games because of the offensive play calling or in spite of the offensive play calling? Nothing wrong with wanting a weak area to improve.

100% and the HEAD COACH even admitted during preseason pressers that Offensive playcalling needs to improve and we can’t keep going back to our safety plays (A gap QB power) when it’s not working.

Not sure what is so hard to understand about not being satisfied with 30 QB runs, especially when it’s NOT EFFECTIVE. Like seriously you’re calling me a whiner because I think that’s fucking stupid? I mean, fuck, that pisses me off.

[GreenfieldBison]

100% and the HEAD COACH even admitted during preseason pressers that Offensive playcalling needs to improve and we can’t keep going back to our safety plays (A gap QB power) when it’s not working.

Not sure what is so hard to understand about not being satisfied with 30 QB runs, especially when it’s NOT EFFECTIVE. Like seriously you’re calling me a whiner because I think that’s fucking stupid? I mean, fuck, that pisses me off.

According to this link Cam Miller averaged 4.5 yds/carry for 68 yds and 2 TDs while Cole Payton averaged 12.8 yds/carry for 105 yards and 2 TDs. Please advise the "NOT EFFECTIVE" part...

https://gobison.com/news/2023/9/9/football-bison-bury-black-bears-44-7-in-home-opener.aspx (https://gobison.com/news/2023/9/9/football-bison-bury-black-bears-44-7-in-home-opener.aspx)

Oh and, I'd rather see Joe Namath or Joe Montana back there too but they ain't on our team. Neither is Franco Harris.

[OrygunBison]

According to this link Cam Miller averaged 4.5 yds/carry for 68 yds and 2 TDs while Cole Payton averaged 12.8 yds/carry for 105 yards and 2 TDs. Please advise the "NOT EFFECTIVE" part...

https://gobison.com/news/2023/9/9/football-bison-bury-black-bears-44-7-in-home-opener.aspx (https://gobison.com/news/2023/9/9/football-bison-bury-black-bears-44-7-in-home-opener.aspx)

Oh and, I'd rather see Joe Namath or Joe Montana back there too but they ain't on our team. Neither is Franco Harris.

Right. "Not effective." What a joke. The Bison won by 37 and got 1-1/2 quarters of playing time for the second string.

[steelbison]

100% and the HEAD COACH even admitted during preseason pressers that Offensive playcalling needs to improve and we can’t keep going back to our safety plays (A gap QB power) when it’s not working.

Not sure what is so hard to understand about not being satisfied with 30 QB runs, especially when it’s NOT EFFECTIVE. Like seriously you’re calling me a whiner because I think that’s fucking stupid? I mean, fuck, that pisses me off.

You can’t reason with idiots my friend. Agree with everything you are seeing. How is the QB run working on 3rd and 4th down. I can point to multiple times the past two seasons it is been shut down. Main reason is it is so predictable. My wife can call the play ffs.


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[steelbison]

So during the timeframe of this “atrocious” play calling you claim to have seen. NDSU’s record has been 64-7 with 4 championship appearances and 3 titles. Seriously, the people on here bitching about play calling are absolutely 100% wrong and can be backed up by facts of the success. You are wrong. Simple as that.

What three championships has Entz and Roehl won?


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[GreenfieldBison]

You can’t reason with idiots my friend. Agree with everything you are seeing. How is the QB run working on 3rd and 4th down. I can point to multiple times the past two seasons it is been shut down. Main reason is it is so predictable. My wife can call the play ffs.


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It also seems difficult to inform "idiots" that data cannot lie. It just is what it is, non-subjective. Most prosecutors will tell you however how unreliable the testimony of an "eyewitness" is.

So to answer your question wrt to yesterday's game:

there were 0 attempts to QB run on 4th down by NDSU
there were 6 attempts to QB run on 3rd down by NDSU, 4 by CM and 2 by CP. 2 of those resulted in 4th downs, 3 resulted in 1st downs and 1 resulted in a TD.

See for yourself. Data cannot lie. https://gobison.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=13761

[NDSU92]

16 play period where we ran the quarterback 12 times, even with cam taking a shot to the head and getting up slowly.

Pretty clear that playcalling was meant to send a message to someone, to whom I have no idea. It was like a Seinfeld bit lol

I don’t care if we beat bottom feeder Maine by 37 points. I would like to see offensive playcalling that gives us a chance against SDSU. They are our only peers at this level and we have lost to them four consecutive times.

[NDSU92]

Frustration with certain playcalling tendencies aside, I am very happy with everything else I’ve seen in all three phases. I was nervous about this season but we’ve got studs all over the place and we control the line of scrimmage. Best early-season NDSU team of Entz’s tenure besides 2019. Definitely seems like there’s a renewed focus there: less penalties and dancing around.

Utilize the offense to its capabilities and try to not get Cam killed by the end of October and we’re golden.

[TAILG8R]

I believe most including myself that are upset with the play calling are concerned with how it doesn’t work against real competition and not how we can beat our QBs against the wall and still beat a shit team like Maine.

How did the play calling work for us in what should have been a win at AZ?

Or when we were rolling SDSU and then crawled back under our blanky?


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[GreenfieldBison]

Frustration with playcalling aside, I am very happy with everything else I’ve seen in all three phases. I was nervous about this season but we’ve got studs all over the place and we control the line of scrimmage. Best early-season NDSU team of Entz’s tenure besides 2019. Definitely seems like there’s a renewed focus there: less penalties and dancing around.

Utilize the offense to its capabilities and try to not get Cam killed by the end of October and we’re golden.

Bison committed 9 penalties for 90 yards yesterday. Got to be "cleaned up".

[NDSU92]

Bison committed 9 penalties for 90 yards yesterday. Got to be "cleaned up".

Some of those were pretty soft so it is what it is. What I liked is that we didn’t pull a 2022 Indiana State game and lose our composure when things didn’t go our way on the first few drives.

The first couple drives show some room for improvement obviously but I liked the leadership I saw on the sideline and we got our shit together.

[GreenfieldBison]

Some of those were pretty soft so it is what it is. What I liked is that we didn’t pull a 2022 Indiana State game and lose our composure when things didn’t go our way on the first few drives.

The first couple drives show some room for improvement obviously but I liked the leadership I saw on the sideline and we got our shit together.

I'm with you 92. I realize that these two teams were not "stiff competition" but I like what my lying eyes see so far. Put me down as "cautiously optimistic." And while we all still have a bad taste in our mouths from last January we need to keep in mind that the previous three losses to SDSU were all games that could have gone either way. They are not Alabama. Shit, Alabama ain't even Alabama.

[WestCoastBison]

Honestly I'm much more concerned about O Line play the last 2 games...way more than play calling. Just my opinion. Roll Herd!!

I concur, being stopped on the 1 yard line 4 straight times was very concerning.

[GreenfieldBison]

Also, and relative to the discussion earlier this week regarding Cam Miller downfield passing, all of my questions were answered yesterday. If NDSU is not taking shots deep down the middle of the field it's apparently not because Cam can't execute.

[LefseBison]

100% and the HEAD COACH even admitted during preseason pressers that Offensive playcalling needs to improve and we can’t keep going back to our safety plays (A gap QB power) when it’s not working.

Not sure what is so hard to understand about not being satisfied with 30 QB runs, especially when it’s NOT EFFECTIVE. Like seriously you’re calling me a whiner because I think that’s fucking stupid? I mean, fuck, that pisses me off.

Well I am glad that he GETS it, that there are problems and he has to FIX those problems. That's his JOB and he gets paid BIG BUCKS to execute. Same with Tyler Roehl; he is paid to do his job and if there are problems, the head coach needs to acknowledge them and FIX them. Is he intimidated by Roehl, what's the problem. Doesn't the coaching staff read Bisonville. Don't you big shots who go to Teamaker luncheons speak up?

[louis13]

Just wanted to throw this historical data out there regarding QB running and offensive balance

Offensive QB Designed Run vs Pass
Coordinator Rush Att./Game * Balance
Pat Perles (2005 - 2008) Average 4.00 61.6%
Brent Vigen (2009 - 2013) Average 5.90 62.9%
Tim Polasek (2014 - 2016) Average 7.87 66.6%
Messingham (2017 - 2018) Average 7.27 69.9%
Tyler Roehl (2019 - 2022) Average 9.93 71.0%

* Approximate - cannot account for designed passes where QB scrambles for positive yards (Total QB rush attempts minus total sacks)

Something the track as the year goes along I guess.

[steelbison]

It also seems difficult to inform "idiots" that data cannot lie. It just is what it is, non-subjective. Most prosecutors will tell you however how unreliable the testimony of an "eyewitness" is.

So to answer your question wrt to yesterday's game:

there were 0 attempts to QB run on 4th down by NDSU
there were 6 attempts to QB run on 3rd down by NDSU, 4 by CM and 2 by CP. 2 of those resulted in 4th downs, 3 resulted in 1st downs and 1 resulted in a TD.

See for yourself. Data cannot lie. https://gobison.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=13761

Wasn’t talking just this year. Talking Roehl and Entz overall. Go back to AZ and SDSU last year and get back to me.


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[steelbison]

So during the timeframe of this “atrocious” play calling you claim to have seen. NDSU’s record has been 64-7 with 4 championship appearances and 3 titles. Seriously, the people on here bitching about play calling are absolutely 100% wrong and can be backed up by facts of the success. You are wrong. Simple as that.

Still waiting for what three championships Entz and Roehl have won exactly.


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[GreenfieldBison]

Wasn’t talking just this year. Talking Roehl and Entz overall. Go back to AZ and SDSU last year and get back to me.


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Bullshit. You make the claim? YOU back it up. Until you do put me down as a not convinced.

[steelbison]

Bullshit. You make the claim? YOU back it up. Until you do put me down as a not convinced.

Ok. When I have time I will put it together for you.

But you are right Tyler is the best OC we have ever had. He’s amazing!!!


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[heffray]

According to this link Cam Miller averaged 4.5 yds/carry for 68 yds and 2 TDs while Cole Payton averaged 12.8 yds/carry for 105 yards and 2 TDs. Please advise the "NOT EFFECTIVE" part...

https://gobison.com/news/2023/9/9/football-bison-bury-black-bears-44-7-in-home-opener.aspx (https://gobison.com/news/2023/9/9/football-bison-bury-black-bears-44-7-in-home-opener.aspx)

Oh and, I'd rather see Joe Namath or Joe Montana back there too but they ain't on our team. Neither is Franco Harris.

This is silly. Their runs were good when they were actually designed pass plays and they decided to run. That’s normally how it works. Most of the designed QB runs were not effective. They CAN BE EFFECTIVE if they are mixed in appropriately, but not effective when you do it 30 times per game.

[Kevin]

The issue isn’t efficiency especially against palookas.

The issue is predictability because it has killed us against good teams and it will again.

[NDSU2006]

Wow, there's still some people who are happy with what Roehl is doing? That's wild.

[BisonHorns]

Sdsu had a qb spy sit on qb runs for entire games because the qb runs 71% of the time. Predictable

[Kevin]

Sdsu had a qb spy sit on qb runs for entire games because the qb runs 71% of the time. Predictable

And we have zero wrinkles to keep them honest.

[heffray]

Wow, there's still some people who are happy with what Roehl is doing? That's wild.

Just look at the numbers, they don’t lie, 2006…

[GreenfieldBison]

Ok. When I have time I will put it together for you.

But you are right Tyler is the best OC we have ever had. He’s amazing!!!


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Did I say anything like that? If so, show me the post.

You made a claim, by inference, that QB runs for this coaching staff are not effective on 3rd and 4th down. I checked the data for a single game and that data disproved your assertion for that game. That throws the entire thesis into question. Does not say you are wrong, just means it is in doubt. Surely does not say anything at all about any one individual.
I never made any assertion about the quality of or my satisfaction with the performance of anyone. Don’t read what isn’t there.

[GreenfieldBison]

This is silly. Their runs were good when they were actually designed pass plays and they decided to run. That’s normally how it works. Most of the designed QB runs were not effective. They CAN BE EFFECTIVE if they are mixed in appropriately, but not effective when you do it 30 times per game.

I can’t tell from that box score play by play whether runs were designed or improvised. All I can tell is what the situation, play and result was. That’s it. Just data and no, it can not lie whether you like it or not.

What you say may be correct, incorrect or partially correct. I don’t know and neither do you. Proving its correctness would be impossible. Proving its incorrectness would be far more work than I care to do.

[reformedUNDfan]

I can’t tell from that box score play by play whether runs were designed or improvised. All I can tell is what the situation, play and result was. That’s it. Just data and no, it can not lie whether you like it or not.

What you say may be correct, incorrect or partially correct. I don’t know and neither do you. Proving its correctness would be impossible. Proving its incorrectness would be far more work than I care to do.

Data can absolutely lie. What a fucking rube statement that is.

[heffray]

I can’t tell from that box score play by play whether runs were designed or improvised. All I can tell is what the situation, play and result was. That’s it. Just data and no, it can not lie whether you like it or not.

What you say may be correct, incorrect or partially correct. I don’t know and neither do you. Proving its correctness would be impossible. Proving its incorrectness would be far more work than I care to do.

Greeny, you don’t strike me as someone who disingenuously argues to save face. It’s super frustrating to me when people do that. If I’m wrong I’m wrong and happily admit it, but not everyone is capable of doing that.

If the data can’t tell the difference between a designed QB run and a QB scramble on a pass play, then the data is literally useless (I won’t say “the data lies” since you seem to be averse to that phrasing). But that’s the point.

If you’re happy with 20-30 called QB runs per game when we have RBs and WRs and TEs who can also play football, then you’ve found your OC. I’m not. Many other people here aren’t. And we don’t think it will be an effective game plan against some Valley teams (one in particular)…

I feel like I’ve just described a perfectly reasonable position after that game, but you and others are making it seem like there’s nothing wrong with the playcalling.

[heffray]

Data can absolutely lie. What a fucking rube statement that is.

If data “can’t lie” that’s fine but it can be useless. Problem solved.

[GreenfieldBison]

Data can absolutely lie. What a fucking rube statement that is.

You might be confusing data with statistics. That’s your error, not mine.

[TAILG8R]

I can’t tell from that box score play by play whether runs were designed or improvised. All I can tell is what the situation, play and result was. That’s it. Just data and no, it can not lie whether you like it or not.

What you say may be correct, incorrect or partially correct. I don’t know and neither do you. Proving its correctness would be impossible. Proving its incorrectness would be far more work than I care to do.


Data can absolutely lie. What a fucking rube statement that is.

THIS so much this. HE has to be smart enough to know that.

Partial data is worth absolutely nothing and lies constantly.

In the given argument we don't know which runs were called and which were improvised but yet we are lead to believe the data about avg yards per run is the 100% truth about how well the QB run game as it's called is working. You sure have to mindfuck yourself to think that is accurate.

A simple test:
If 15 planned runs net 40 yards and 4 improvised runs net 76 yards then ....

If you love a 2.6 yards per carry over that many plays I don't know if anyone can help you.

[TAILG8R]

You might be confusing data with statistics. That’s your error, not mine.

Doubling down on data can't lie ... LOL wow

God I hope you don't work with or make data based decisions every day.

It's ok to say you are wrong or misspoke on an internet fan message board. You admit you don't have all the data but claim the data proves something it doesn't have all the data for. :innocent:

[reformedUNDfan]

You might be confusing data with statistics. That’s your error, not mine.

I have a master's in data science bro, you're entirely full of shit

[Kevin]

Bro science is the only science i respect.

[GreenfieldBison]

Unlike some of you apparently, I am much too old and much too educated to know everything.

Let's review for some of you who are either unable to read, unable to comprehend or just plain ignorant:

@steelbison made an inference that running the QB on 3rd and 4th down is not successful. I don't know if that is right or wrong but it was easy to check for yesterday. The data says that NDSU never ran the QB on 4th down. When they ran the QB on 3rd down it was successful on 2 of every three tries (meaning the goal of positive yardage was achieved.) Is that good? You tell me. It does not seem "bad" especially when you consider that those successes resulted in a TD and three first downs. Does it prove anything (nee even SAY anything) about the overall play calling, offensive strategy, offensive success/failure of the team? NO, it does not. Full stop. Some of you knuckleheads draw inferences and conclusions that are just mind boggling.

The play by play data from yesterdays game records 6 QB runs on 3rd down along with the existing game situation and the end result. It is not interpretable, or debatable. It is just simply the record. You want to conclude something from it? That's your game. I made no conclusion nor drew any inference. I just reported the data. Does it support or disprove @steelbison's assertion? Ask him/her/them/they.

Ah yes, and I also challenged @heffray's assertion that the QB run game is not effective by reporting the QB run data from yesterday's game. I didn't assert that it is either effective nor ineffective but just what the result from yesterday looks like. I just asked him to expound on the ineffective part. That he gets a little triggered by the question is puzzling. I did not call him any names, piss on his leg nor even insult his dead mother. Just asked what is the unsuccessful part. Apparently the question is silly. OK. So you don't have an answer. That's fine. It must be obvious and I'm just too old and/or educated to see it.

[GreenfieldBison]

I have a master's in data science bro, you're entirely full of shit

Not impressed. You must have failed to learn anything.

[GreenfieldBison]

Doubling down on data can't lie ... LOL wow

God I hope you don't work with or make data based decisions every day.

It's ok to say you are wrong or misspoke on an internet fan message board. You admit you don't have all the data but claim the data proves something it doesn't have all the data for. :innocent:

What is the claim I made again and can you show me the post in which it was made please?

[TAILG8R]

I can’t tell from that box score play by play whether runs were designed or improvised. All I can tell is what the situation, play and result was. That’s it. Just data and no, it can not lie whether you like it or not.

What you say may be correct, incorrect or partially correct. I don’t know and neither do you. Proving its correctness would be impossible. Proving its incorrectness would be far more work than I care to do.

Does this post show that you admit you don’t have all the data?


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[56BISON73]

Unlike some of you apparently, I am much too old and much too educated to know everything.

Let's review for some of you who are either unable to read, unable to comprehend or just plain ignorant:

@steelbison made an inference that running the QB on 3rd and 4th down is not successful. I don't know if that is right or wrong but it was easy to check for yesterday. The data says that NDSU never ran the QB on 4th down. When they ran the QB on 3rd down it was successful on 2 of every three tries (meaning the goal of positive yardage was achieved.) Is that good? You tell me. It does not seem "bad" especially when you consider that those successes resulted in a TD and three first downs. Does it prove anything (nee even SAY anything) about the overall play calling, offensive strategy, offensive success/failure of the team? NO, it does not. Full stop. Some of you knuckleheads draw inferences and conclusions that are just mind boggling.

The play by play data from yesterdays game records 6 QB runs on 3rd down along with the existing game situation and the end result. It is not interpretable, or debatable. It is just simply the record. You want to conclude something from it? That's your game. I made no conclusion nor drew any inference. I just reported the data. Does it support or disprove @steelbison's assertion? Ask him/her/them/they.

Ah yes, and I also challenged @heffray's assertion that the QB run game is not effective by reporting the QB run data from yesterday's game. I didn't assert that it is either effective nor ineffective but just what the result from yesterday looks like. I just asked him to expound on the ineffective part. That he gets a little triggered by the question is puzzling. I did not call him any names, piss on his leg nor even insult his dead mother. Just asked what is the unsuccessful part. Apparently the question is silly. OK. So you don't have an answer. That's fine. It must be obvious and I'm just too old and/or educated to see it.

Welcome to Bisonville :D

[CaBisonFan]

Two good quarterbacks... several good running backs... great athleticism and quickness on defense... lines are both strong... improvement at linebacker... more aggressive defensive play calling, which has produced many rushed passes. I'm impressed.

[heffray]

Unlike some of you apparently, I am much too old and much too educated to know everything.

Let's review for some of you who are either unable to read, unable to comprehend or just plain ignorant:

@steelbison made an inference that running the QB on 3rd and 4th down is not successful. I don't know if that is right or wrong but it was easy to check for yesterday. The data says that NDSU never ran the QB on 4th down. When they ran the QB on 3rd down it was successful on 2 of every three tries (meaning the goal of positive yardage was achieved.) Is that good? You tell me. It does not seem "bad" especially when you consider that those successes resulted in a TD and three first downs. Does it prove anything (nee even SAY anything) about the overall play calling, offensive strategy, offensive success/failure of the team? NO, it does not. Full stop. Some of you knuckleheads draw inferences and conclusions that are just mind boggling.

The play by play data from yesterdays game records 6 QB runs on 3rd down along with the existing game situation and the end result. It is not interpretable, or debatable. It is just simply the record. You want to conclude something from it? That's your game. I made no conclusion nor drew any inference. I just reported the data. Does it support or disprove @steelbison's assertion? Ask him/her/them/they.

Ah yes, and I also challenged @heffray's assertion that the QB run game is not effective by reporting the QB run data from yesterday's game. I didn't assert that it is either effective nor ineffective but just what the result from yesterday looks like. I just asked him to expound on the ineffective part. That he gets a little triggered by the question is puzzling. I did not call him any names, piss on his leg nor even insult his dead mother. Just asked what is the unsuccessful part. Apparently the question is silly. OK. So you don't have an answer. That's fine. It must be obvious and I'm just too old and/or educated to see it.

Greenfield, I explained my position in a post after this pretty succinctly. Also, next time you intend to “just show data without any assertion and just ask follow-up questions,” maybe try not posing like you did because it really came off as you espousing the opposing viewpoint. In kind, I’ll be sure to give more benefit of the doubt to any post siting data and asking follow-up questions, to you specifically, because 90% of people are doing so to actually make a point and not what you were (apparently) doing. Call me skeptical (I am), but here’s my benefit of the doubt because I like you.

[scottietohottie]

As long as the qb is running inside the ten I don't care what play was called bros. That's science.

[scottietohottie]

And remember how tough this fcs competition is bros and just how much of a genius Tyler Roehl actually is eh. He'll probably be head coach of Clemson by this time next year. Enjoy it now.

That's bro science eh.

[El_Chapo]

40 QB runs vs EWU & awful Maine team is what's embarrassing for this offense.

[scottietohottie]

40 QB runs vs EWU & awful Maine team is what's embarrassing for this offense.

Trust the science bro.

[GreenfieldBison]

Does this post show that you admit you don’t have all the data?


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All the data for what?

[GreenfieldBison]

Greenfield, I explained my position in a post after this pretty succinctly. Also, next time you intend to “just show data without any assertion and just ask follow-up questions,” maybe try not posing like you did because it really came off as you espousing the opposing viewpoint. In kind, I’ll be sure to give more benefit of the doubt to any post siting data and asking follow-up questions, to you specifically, because 90% of people are doing so to actually make a point and not what you were (apparently) doing. Call me skeptical (I am), but here’s my benefit of the doubt because I like you.

heff, first of all thanks for the posting parameters. I'll try to keep my sorry ass in line. Second, if I'm totally honest about it my impression of the QB run game seems parallel to yours, @steelbison's and others. But curiosity got the better of me so I went shopping for evidence. What I found in an admittedly brief search seemed contrarian on its face. You however appeared to be quite emphatic. So I threw the data I found at you and asked for your analysis/explanation. Still eager to read it btw.

Unlike others I do not feel qualified to second guess paid coaches but I recognize that it is everyone's right to do so. Not criticizing anyone for doing so and I'm not arguing with anyone about the relative success or failure of the staff and particularly the play calling. I have never played Madden anything and it has been a looooooooooooong time since I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. But if you or anyone take a strong stance I will feel free to ask questions. Fair enough?

If I disagree with you trust me you will not be wondering what I meant. I will say I disagree with respect and with my reasoning*.



* Yeah right. If its after 9:00 pm and the scotch bottle is open all bets are off.

[TAILG8R]

All the data for what?

Ok put the shovel down.

I’m convinced greenfield is Chapo posting when he’s taken his adderall.


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[bruinbison]

Bison Report
@BisonReport
·10h
.
@PFF_College
has graded 134 FCS QBs who have taken at least 10 dropbacks

Their grades?

Cole Payton - 90.8 (elite) - 2nd/134
Cam Miller - 88.7 (elite) - 6th/134

[thunderingherd]

@BisonReport

NDSU offense through two games

39.5 ppg
484.5 yards per game
5 punts in 22 drives
8.1 yards per rush
7.2 yards per passing *attempt*
0 turnovers

[heffray]

heff, first of all thanks for the posting parameters. I'll try to keep my sorry ass in line. Second, if I'm totally honest about it my impression of the QB run game seems parallel to yours, @steelbison's and others. But curiosity got the better of me so I went shopping for evidence. What I found in an admittedly brief search seemed contrarian on its face. You however appeared to be quite emphatic. So I threw the data I found at you and asked for your analysis/explanation. Still eager to read it btw.

Unlike others I do not feel qualified to second guess paid coaches but I recognize that it is everyone's right to do so. Not criticizing anyone for doing so and I'm not arguing with anyone about the relative success or failure of the staff and particularly the play calling. I have never played Madden anything and it has been a looooooooooooong time since I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. But if you or anyone take a strong stance I will feel free to ask questions. Fair enough?

If I disagree with you trust me you will not be wondering what I meant. I will say I disagree with respect and with my reasoning*.



* Yeah right. If its after 9:00 pm and the scotch bottle is open all bets are off.

Cool. I’m willing to move on. Enjoy the scotch. I hope it’s a Macallan 12 or 15.

[GreenfieldBison]

Ok put the shovel down.

I’m convinced greenfield is Chapo posting when he’s taken his adderall.


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https://youtu.be/qfTg0SQVvwE?si=bjv_Uj5C0wkol-dL

[TAILG8R]

https://youtu.be/qfTg0SQVvwE?si=bjv_Uj5C0wkol-dL

Now I know it. Lol.


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[GreenfieldBison]

So I was telling my wife about this convo and she said well you know this quote:



Don’t blame a clown for being a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going back to the circus.

[Bison Chief]

I think a great example of this conversation is the 61 yard TD run by CP. It's 2nd & 12 and clearly a pass is called. Cole evades pressure and makes an excellent run for the touchdown. That's a playmaker improvising to make a play. How much credit should the playcaller get for that? Play at 10:50 of link.

https://youtu.be/wh6Oq5EtO7I?si=imDO_oRg_IpEABNA

It's probably my lying eyes but I saw marginal success on designed QB runs and great success with improvised QB scrambles.

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[TAILG8R]

I think a great example of this conversation is the 61 yard TD run by CP. It's 2nd & 12 and clearly a pass is called. Cole evades pressure and makes an excellent run for the touchdown. That's a playmaker improvising to make a play. How much credit should the playcaller get for that? Play at 10:50 of link.

https://youtu.be/wh6Oq5EtO7I?si=imDO_oRg_IpEABNA

It's probably my lying eyes but I saw marginal success on designed QB runs and great success with improvised QB scrambles.

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Watch out, data never lies!!!


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[GreenfieldBison]

It’s just so very frustrating to have to pull your punches.

Not a fair fight though so I’ll keep pulling.

[NDSU_grad]

I think a great example of this conversation is the 61 yard TD run by CP. It's 2nd & 12 and clearly a pass is called. Cole evades pressure and makes an excellent run for the touchdown. That's a playmaker improvising to make a play. How much credit should the playcaller get for that? Play at 10:50 of link.

https://youtu.be/wh6Oq5EtO7I?si=imDO_oRg_IpEABNA

It's probably my lying eyes but I saw marginal success on designed QB runs and great success with improvised QB scrambles.

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I agree with this but there’s also great play calls that fail because of poor execution. But yet the play caller also gets blamed for those.

[TAILG8R]

It’s just so very frustrating to have to pull your punches.

Not a fair fight though so I’ll keep pulling.

Lol doh k.

Anyway. Roehl’s play calling is still very questionable. The oline isn’t getting the push they have in years past which as a coach you should know since you see them in practice everyday and adjust. But he’s proven year after year he doesn’t adjust he just beats his head against the only playbook he knows.

After the first two games it sure looks to me like we could have ourselves a championship level D. That will win us most games. If the play calling doesn’t change we will lose one or two games because the D can’t keep every team out of the end zone every game.

My prediction is we lose 2 still get a top 4 seed and fall just short of a championship. It actually kind of sucks when win it all is pretty much the standard.


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[Bison Chief]

I agree with this but there’s also great play calls that fail because of poor execution. But yet the play caller also gets blamed for those.True; Indy made a good post about this in the fire vigen thread. The playcalling seems predictable though and that is on the play caller. He might even get credit for that if it were working better, but I'm not sure it is. It doesn't feel like it.

This is my preference but I'd rather see 3-4 yard grind carries by the RBs, not the QBs. I dunno, something about the designed QB runs seem unsustainable, no evidence will be given to support that view.

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[GreenfieldBison]

True; Indy made a good post about this in the fire vigen thread. The playcalling seems predictable though and that is on the play caller. He might even get credit for that if it were working better, but I'm not sure it is. It doesn't feel like it.

This is my preference but I'd rather see 3-4 yard grind carries by the RBs, not the QBs. I dunno, something about the designed QB runs seem unsustainable, no evidence will be given to support that view.

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Thank you for this viewpoint. I also would prefer to see RB runs but we do not seem to enjoy a plethora of RB studs. We know they will get hurt over a 15 game season. A QB runner gets some protection if they give themself up whereas a RB does not. We will need a healthy T-Mac in December.

[Snowgoose]

True; Indy made a good post about this in the fire vigen thread. The playcalling seems predictable though and that is on the play caller. He might even get credit for that if it were working better, but I'm not sure it is. It doesn't feel like it.

This is my preference but I'd rather see 3-4 yard grind carries by the RBs, not the QBs. I dunno, something about the designed QB runs seem unsustainable, no evidence will be given to support that view.

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We used to have stud rbs everywhere now it seems our former stud rb is turning our plays into only a qb game which is odd. I am fine with a qB run every now and then but as someone posted our reps are way up and that is what most are frustrated with as it shows a lack of innovation. We used to be difficult to defend for different reasons now it seems we just want to play rugby sometimes.

[Bison03]

@BisonReport

NDSU offense through two games

39.5 ppg
484.5 yards per game
5 punts in 22 drives
8.1 yards per rush
7.2 yards per passing *attempt*
0 turnovers

How can anyone read these stats and think there is an issue with out offense or the play calling. I mean seriously. If you are complaining, you either are frustrated when a bad play happens. Ok, that is normal, welcome to football. Or the standard you set is so unreasonable.

[IndyBison]

Thank you for this viewpoint. I also would prefer to see RB runs but we do not seem to enjoy a plethora of RB studs. We know they will get hurt over a 15 game season. A QB runner gets some protection if they give themself up whereas a RB does not. We will need a healthy T-Mac in December.The protection a QB gets when they slide applies to any runner. The only protection a QB gets is if he's on a passing posture and that applies to any back who receives the snap. I don't believe the word QB appesrs anywhere in the rule book. The benefit of a QB run is you have an extra blocker. Usually when the QB gives the ball to a RB, he doesn't get involved in the blocking.

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[Alsen]

It also seems difficult to inform "idiots" that data cannot lie. It just is what it is, non-subjective. Most prosecutors will tell you however how unreliable the testimony of an "eyewitness" is.

So to answer your question wrt to yesterday's game:

there were 0 attempts to QB run on 4th down by NDSU
there were 6 attempts to QB run on 3rd down by NDSU, 4 by CM and 2 by CP. 2 of those resulted in 4th downs, 3 resulted in 1st downs and 1 resulted in a TD.

See for yourself. Data cannot lie. https://gobison.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=13761

You couldn't be more wrong, and you are making a fool of yourself trying to defend the undefendable.

[heffray]

How can anyone read these stats and think there is an issue with out offense or the play calling. I mean seriously. If you are complaining, you either are frustrated when a bad play happens. Ok, that is normal, welcome to football. Or the standard you set is so unreasonable.

Buddy, there are pages and pages of people arguing about how exactly you can read these stats and think there is an issue with play calling. I mean seriously… here’s how:

Roehl call QB run… 2 yds.
Roehl call QB run… -1 yd.
Roehl call pass play, no one open, QB scrambles for 20yds.

Stats show Roehl’s playcalling gets an average of 7yds per carry when the QB runs, but in REALITY, Roehl’s QB run play call avgs 1 yd, and QB scrambles on pass plays are much more fruitful.

If you either don’t understand that concept or are unable to yield this point, then I’m done taking to you about this.

[GreenfieldBison]

Buddy, there are pages and pages of people arguing about how exactly you can read these stats and think there is an issue with play calling. I mean seriously… here’s how:

Roehl call QB run… 2 yds.
Roehl call QB run… -1 yd.
Roehl call pass play, no one open, QB scrambles for 20yds.

Stats show Roehl’s playcalling gets an average of 7yds per carry when the QB runs, but in REALITY, Roehl’s QB run play call avgs 1 yd, and QB scrambles on pass plays are much more fruitful.

If you either don’t understand that concept or are unable to yield this point, then I’m done taking to you about this.

So, what is the source of this highlighted data? Where do you find that? I don't think that is in the PxP. Not saying you are wrong heffy. Just want to know where you are getting that from.

[GreenfieldBison]

You couldn't be more wrong, and you are making a fool of yourself trying to defend the undefendable.

As discussed, I'm neither defending nor impugning anything. Looks like you are the fool.

[GreenfieldBison]

The protection a QB gets when they slide applies to any runner. The only protection a QB gets is if he's on a passing posture and that applies to any back who receives the snap. I don't believe the word QB appesrs anywhere in the rule book. The benefit of a QB run is you have an extra blocker. Usually when the QB gives the ball to a RB, he doesn't get involved in the blocking.

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Thanks. I feel like I keep hearing in game broadcasts however where the commentators say something like "he gave himself up" when a QB is running the ball and then slides just prior to contact. Is it not true that in this situation the defender is not allowed to hit that player who is sliding whereas with any other ball carrier they are allowed to make contact while the player is in the process of going to the ground? Am I thinking of an NFL rule maybe?

[heffray]

So, what is the source of this highlighted data? Where do you find that? I don't think that is in the PxP. Not saying you are wrong heffy. Just want to know where you are getting that from.

I thought it was entirely obvious that I just made that up to illustrate the point. But sorry. Here:

I made that up to illustrate the point.

I’m getting really close to re-watching the entire game and logging every play call and yardage…

[Kevin]

How can anyone read these stats and think there is an issue with out offense or the play calling. I mean seriously. If you are complaining, you either are frustrated when a bad play happens. Ok, that is normal, welcome to football. Or the standard you set is so unreasonable.

Because it’s EWU and Maine?

[TransAmBison]

I thought it was entirely obvious that I just made that up to illustrate the point. But sorry. Here:

I made that up to illustrate the point.

I’m getting really close to re-watching the entire game and logging every play call and yardage…I prefer photo illustrations.*






*If anyone remembers...that was lying data.

[heffray]

I prefer photo illustrations.*






*If anyone remembers...that was lying data.

My favorite kind.

[GreenfieldBison]

I thought it was entirely obvious that I just made that up to illustrate the point. But sorry. Here:

I made that up to illustrate the point.

I’m getting really close to re-watching the entire game and logging every play call and yardage…

Yes that was obvious but you seemed to infer that you had the data for real games. So you don't have it but you intend to capture it.

- How will you record a read option play where CM or CP keeps? Is that a designed run or an improvised one? Designed right?
- How will you know for sure that an improvised run was not in fact a QB draw with a damn good fake? I saw one good run fake by CP on Saturday that fooled the cameraman as well as me and I bet some others. Went for a big gain too (maybe a TD?) Anyway, there is a possibility for some interpretive error here. Your eyes (just like mine to be clear) may show you what you expect to see. Doesn't make you feeble if that happens, just human. But there is a hazard there.

[GreenfieldBison]

I prefer photo illustrations.*






*If anyone remembers...that was lying data.

Don't remember. Enlighten me please.

[NDSU92]

Because it’s EWU and Maine?

Some people just love arguing against points that nobody is making lol

[BigLakeBison]

How can anyone read these stats and think there is an issue with out offense or the play calling. I mean seriously. If you are complaining, you either are frustrated when a bad play happens. Ok, that is normal, welcome to football. Or the standard you set is so unreasonable.

I distinctly remember many times over the past decade where FCS teams have had ridiculous offensive stats, only to find out it was only smoke and mirrors when they faced stiffer competition. I have a feeling that our offensive production is going to go down significantly as we play stiffer competition. Running the QB as much as we are feels like a 9 man football offense. We have the talent to be much more diverse than we are.

[TransAmBison]

Don't remember. Enlighten me please.Teh Foolem had a photo illustration from out at tailgating where they photoshopped signs they wanted in the picture to give the message they wanted to be given. The original picture was found. Teh Foolem got called out on it and they said it was a photo illustration, so didn't have to be factual.

[El_Chapo]

NDSU played the #77 and #56 defense in FCS..... so lets not get a boner over our offensive stats just yet.

UCA defense is better #14

[BISONBRI53]

Frustration with certain playcalling tendencies aside, I am very happy with everything else I’ve seen in all three phases. I was nervous about this season but we’ve got studs all over the place and we control the line of scrimmage. Best early-season NDSU team of Entz’s tenure besides 2019. Definitely seems like there’s a renewed focus there: less penalties and dancing around.

Utilize the offense to its capabilities and try to not get Cam killed by the end of October and we’re golden.


WHAT???? We had 9 penalties for 90 yards... At least 2 TD's called back because of it. This team has been sloppy under ME. It has gotten worse each year under him.

[BISONBRI53]

well i am glad that he gets it, that there are problems and he has to fix those problems. That's his job and he gets paid big bucks to execute. Same with tyler roehl; he is paid to do his job and if there are problems, the head coach needs to acknowledge them and fix them. Is he intimidated by roehl, what's the problem. Doesn't the coaching staff read bisonville. don't you big shots who go to teamaker luncheons speak up?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[Bison Dan]

Because it’s EWU and Maine?

EWU took Fresno into double overtime. Maine will win some games in their conference.

[GreenfieldBison]

Teh Foolem had a photo illustration from out at tailgating where they photoshopped signs they wanted in the picture to give the message they wanted to be given. The original picture was found. Teh Foolem got called out on it and they said it was a photo illustration, so didn't have to be factual.

Oh, OK. Thanks. I was unaware of this. In the age of Photoshop I agree that no photograph can be taken as "fact" with any degree of certainty.

That's not the kind of data I'm referring to however when I assert that it cannot lie. I'm talking about the kind of objective observable atomic data such as the game PxP, or my outdoor temperature gauge. The kind of stuff that could be used for statistical analysis. Could whoever records that make an error here or there? Sure. I suppose so. That would be bad data and if undetected then any inferences drawn could be errant. I think that is pretty unlikely though in the context of game data.

[IndyBison]

Thanks. I feel like I keep hearing in game broadcasts however where the commentators say something like "he gave himself up" when a QB is running the ball and then slides just prior to contact. Is it not true that in this situation the defender is not allowed to hit that player who is sliding whereas with any other ball carrier they are allowed to make contact while the player is in the process of going to the ground? Am I thinking of an NFL rule maybe?

They are giving themselves up with a feet first slide. The ball is considered dead as soon as he starts the slide. It can be done by any runner, but it's almost always the player who receives the snap (commonly known as the quarterback). If the QB runs and doesn't slide, he has no more protection than anyone else.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[KSBisonFan]

NDSU played the #77 and #56 defense in FCS..... so lets not get a boner over our offensive stats just yet.

UCA defense is better #14

Maine and EWU have also played better teams so far. Feel free to crown UCA's defense after beating the Texas College Steers (not joking). They're an NAIA school.

It's almost as if some comparison statistics are not trustworthy after 2 games.

[heffray]

Yes that was obvious but you seemed to infer that you had the data for real games. So you don't have it but you intend to capture it.

- How will you record a read option play where CM or CP keeps? Is that a designed run or an improvised one? Designed right?
- How will you know for sure that an improvised run was not in fact a QB draw with a damn good fake? I saw one good run fake by CP on Saturday that fooled the cameraman as well as me and I bet some others. Went for a big gain too (maybe a TD?) Anyway, there is a possibility for some interpretive error here. Your eyes (just like mine to be clear) may show you what you expect to see. Doesn't make you feeble if that happens, just human. But there is a hazard there.

The answer to your question is that IF I decide to rewatch all of our offensive plays from the game and log called run v pass and yardage result, then I GET TO FUCKING DECIDE what the play was because I’m putting in the work to make a pretty easy point that you bozos are making tiresome: The designed QB run calls were minimally effective on Saturday, and they will be exponentially less effective when we get to Valley play. Agree or disagree. I’m done caring.

[TAILG8R]

I prefer photo illustrations.*






*If anyone remembers...that was lying data.

I finally gave TAB positive rep again after like two years. Apparently my standards with all things Bison(ville) ARE too high.

Or TAB has gotten weak in his old age.

[GreenfieldBison]

They are giving themselves up with a feet first slide. The ball is considered dead as soon as he starts the slide. It can be done by any runner, but it's almost always the player who receives the snap (commonly known as the quarterback). If the QB runs and doesn't slide, he has no more protection than anyone else.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Yep that is consistent with my understanding then. Thanks.

[TAILG8R]

Maine and EWU have also played better teams so far. Feel free to crown UCA's defense after beating the Texas College Steers (not joking). They're an NAIA school.

It's almost as if some comparison statistics are not trustworthy after 2 games.

Can I? Can I please comment on this the way I REALLY want to??

And that is nothing against you KSBisonFan. Just had me laughing reading this comment in context of all the post the last 24 hours. :)

[GreenfieldBison]

The answer to your question is that IF I decide to rewatch all of our offensive plays from the game and log called run v pass and yardage result, then I GET TO FUCKING DECIDE what the play was because I’m putting in the work to make a pretty easy point that you bozos are making tiresome: The designed QB run calls were minimally effective on Saturday, and they will be exponentially less effective when we get to Valley play. Agree or disagree. I’m done caring.

Well since you are clearly irritated let me keep pushing. I think what is REALLY bothering you (and me frankly) is that the NDSU power run game is not working like it used to, no matter who the runner is. OK, Cole Payton is an outlier.

I have no idea if the data would support that but it is the impression I have beginning with all of last year. All of the QBs during the D1 era have been runners first except for Carson in my mind. Again, not sure the data supports that but it is the impression in my head. So QB run game is not new. Unsuccessful runs between the tackles by any runner is the new feature/bug as I see it. But then there is that inconvenient box score from last Saturday. Maybe I'll rewatch that game too with a notepad and see how often I can identify a read option qb keep. If there are a lot of those who gets the credit/blame and in what ratio? Entz? Roehl? Hedberg? Miller? Payton?

[Hammerhead]

EWU put up 31 points at Fresno who has a Sagarin rating is higher than all but 3 FCS teams.


Maine and EWU have also played better teams so far. Feel free to crown UCA's defense after beating the Texas College Steers (not joking). They're an NAIA school.

It's almost as if some comparison statistics are not trustworthy after 2 games.

[scottietohottie]

Well since you are clearly irritated let me keep pushing. I think what is REALLY bothering you (and me frankly) is that the NDSU power run game is not working like it used to, no matter who the runner is. OK, Cole Payton is an outlier.

I have no idea if the data would support that but it is the impression I have beginning with all of last year. All of the QBs during the D1 era have been runners first except for Carson in my mind. Again, not sure the data supports that but it is the impression in my head. So QB run game is not new. Unsuccessful runs between the tackles by any runner is the new feature/bug as I see it. But then there is that inconvenient box score from last Saturday. Maybe I'll rewatch that game too with a notepad and see how often I can identify a read option qb keep. If there are a lot of those who gets the credit/blame and in what ratio? Entz? Roehl? Hedberg? Miller? Payton?

So you spread the field and open it up. Tight end down the seam. A pass or 2 on a obvious running situation. A play action. A screen. Keep the defense honest. I think opponents sellout on the run against ndsu now and preach that all week prior. It's not that what they are doing isn't working now. It's the fact that you're going to need to do this stuff against a better opponent later that bothers some of us. Maybe the coaches are playing the long game and just setting it up for sdsu later eh!

[KSBisonFan]

Can I? Can I please comment on this the way I REALLY want to??

And that is nothing against you KSBisonFan. Just had me laughing reading this comment in context of all the post the last 24 hours. :)

Go for it. The last comment was intended as a smartass statement to poke some bears.

[GreenfieldBison]

So you spread the field and open it up. Tight end down the seam. A pass or 2 on an obvious running situation. A play action. A screen. Keep the defense honest. I think opponents sellout on the run against ndsu now and preach that all week prior. It's not that what they are doing isn't working now. It's the fact that you're going to need to do this stuff against a better opponent later that bothers some of us. Maybe the coaches are playing the long game and just setting it up for sdsu later eh!

I was thinking that I don't recall a single screen play last Saturday. Were there any? Why aren't they doing what you suggest? All speculation. Who knows?

[Bisonator98]

So you spread the field and open it up. Tight end down the seam. A pass or 2 on a obvious running situation. A play action. A screen. Keep the defense honest. I think opponents sellout on the run against ndsu now and preach that all week prior. It's not that what they are doing isn't working now. It's the fact that you're going to need to do this stuff against a better opponent later that bothers some of us. Maybe the coaches are playing the long game and just setting it up for sdsu later eh!

I couldn't agree more...........eh!:bowdown:

[Kevin]

I was thinking that I don't recall a single screen play last Saturday. Were there any? Why aren't they doing what you suggest? All speculation. Who knows?

I don't recall a screen play all of last year bro.

[cbline]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the wide receivers seemed to be more aggressive going up for the ball on contested throws. That was good to see.

[GreenfieldBison]

I don't recall a screen play all of last year bro.

Maybe our guards can't pull eh?

Weird though. I could swear I saw one from last year* doing just that while wearing a Tampa Bay costume yesterday.


* ok, he was a tackle last year, guard now

[Bison Dan]

I don't recall a screen play all of last year bro.

Need to have a short passing game. Bubble screens and whatever happen to our slot receiver passes over the middle?

[GreenfieldBison]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the wide receivers seemed to be more aggressive going up for the ball on contested throws. That was good to see.

Mathis for certain looks better to me in this regard than I was expecting. Encouraging.

[El_Chapo]

Need to have a short passing game. Bubble screens and whatever happen to our slot receiver passes over the middle?

WE DONT RUN THE WCO anymore apparently...

[Snowgoose]

Need to have a short passing game. Bubble screens and whatever happen to our slot receiver passes over the middle?

This is what most have been begging for because it does fit Cams game the best or it sure seems. I would compare Cam to a Brock Purdy for instance and not a Carson Wentz or Justin Fields. Get the ball out on short to medium passing and into your playmakers like Eli Green and our RBs. Its a long season and these were the games to work on this stuff not run the QB alot. Roehl is a good coach but his playcalling is in a rut and has been for a while and he resorts to his tecmo bowl chart of just four plays.

[Kevin]

WE DONT RUN THE WCO anymore apparently...

Which is weird because we had three QB's drafted in large part because of the WCO system. Now we run between the tackles from shotgun lol*

And we also won like 36 titles running it but as lakes has proven the draft picks are more important.





*this is a sad lol. like a joker lol. like an lol wtf it's so over lol pls do not neg rep me saying that I'm laughing at our anemic offense. I'm not. so stop. tab.

[scottietohottie]

It's not west coast offense It's west Fargo offense eh.

[KSBisonFan]

Here are the rushing stats comparing QB carries through 2 games, 2022 vs 2023:

2022: Cole & Cam accounted for 11 out of 68 rushes. 16.2%

2023: Cole & Cam have accounted for 38 of 86 rushes. 44.2%.

[GreenfieldBison]

Here are the rushing stats comparing QB carries through 2 games, 2022 vs 2023:

2022: Cole & Cam accounted for 11 out of 68 rushes. 16.2%

2023: Cole & Cam have accounted for 38 of 86 rushes. 44.2%.

But there is no way to tell from the raw data whether any were read option type plays though correct?

[Bisman]

Need to have a short passing game. Bubble screens and whatever happen to our slot receiver passes over the middle?

A quick slant over the middle is an easy pass for a quarterback to make. SDSU does it a lot.

[scottietohottie]

Here are the rushing stats comparing QB carries through 2 games, 2022 vs 2023:

2022: Cole & Cam accounted for 11 out of 68 rushes. 16.2%

2023: Cole & Cam have accounted for 38 of 86 rushes. 44.2%.

So has the o line taken a step back? Some of those runs are scrambles.

[GreenfieldBison]

A quick slant over the middle is an easy pass for a quarterback to make. SDSU does it a lot.

Yeah but all their TEs go to the NFL though.

[KSBisonFan]

So has the o line taken a step back? Some of those runs are scrambles.

Heffray is watching replays of all 4 games and will be giving a PowerPoint presentation at the presser later today.

[Kevin]

But there is no way to tell from the raw data whether any were read option type plays though correct?

it doesn't matter bro that's like a 5x increase that's *crazy*

[totoinfl]

Exciting finish. SDSU is vulnerable. And what's with the new all-black uni's? Dirt is supposed to scare us?

The QB power run was eating them all night. Both QBs for MSU could throw the ball, but Chambers was more Cole and Meliotte was more of a Cam. I would think after playing us every year, the defense would be ready for that. I also have questions about the bunnies secondary...

The biggest disappointment was when MSU took the lead with 2 minutes, then let SDSU go down the field in 2 plays for the score that won the game.

Somebody messed up the defense calls .

[GreenfieldBison]

it doesn't matter bro that's like a 5x increase that's *crazy*

Yeah well what does it look like if broken out by QB? I assume @ks has that…

[KSBisonFan]

Yeah well what does it look like if broken out by QB? I assume @ks has that…

2022: Cole 7 carries, Cam 4 carries through 2 games.
2023: Cole 14 carries, Cam 24 carries through 2 games.

[TAILG8R]

2022: Cole 7 carries, Cam 4 carries through 2 games.
2022: Cole 14 carries, Cam 24 carries through 2 games.

Good to see we have our best passing QB taking all the carries. SMH

I'm not sure what the data says but Cole getting 100% more carries and Cam getting 500% more carries than last year at this time says something to me and I don't like it.

But they were probably all well designed passing plays that our underdeveloped minds can't comprehend that broke down because of lack of execution by the players.

[GreenfieldBison]

2022: Cole 7 carries, Cam 4 carries through 2 games.
2022: Cole 14 carries, Cam 24 carries through 2 games.

Thanks. Second line is ‘23 I assume. Sure would be nice to know if the qb run was called on the sideline or on the field. What did heffy say at the presser?

[KSBisonFan]

Thanks. Second line is ‘23 I assume. Sure would be nice to know if the qb run was called on the sideline or on the field. What did heffy say at the presser?

Yes, my bad. Heffy said to look for NDSU to abandon the forward pass so we don't have to disect QB runs to death.

[heffray]

Yes, my bad. Heffy said to look for NDSU to abandon the forward pass so we don't have to disect QB runs to death.

We may as fuckin well…

[thunderingherd]

What an offensive performance by greenfield today in this thread.

485yds per game. 40pnts per game. Zero turnovers? Sounds like we need MORE qb run.

[Professor Chaos]

It's not like this over-reliance on the QB in the run game is a necessity either. Career rushing numbers for the top RBs:

Tamerick Williams: 240 rushes for 1582 yards (6.6 ypc)
TK Marshall: 90 rushes for 652 yards (7.2 ypc)

Those are better yards per carry numbers than plenty of all-conference/all-American RBs that came before them. #FreeTheRBs

[KSBisonFan]

It's not like this over-reliance on the QB in the run game is a necessity either. Career rushing numbers for the top RBs:

Tamerick Williams: 240 rushes for 1582 yards (6.6 ypc)
TK Marshall: 90 rushes for 652 yards (7.2 ypc)

Those are better yards per carry numbers than plenty of all-conference/all-American RBs that came before them. #FreeTheRBs

Exactly. I also think our offense has lost it's identity. We don't remotely resemble the teams who punched FBS teams in the mouth.

[mtoutfitter]

Saw a replay of the long Cam Miller pass that was dropped. Ball went nearly 60 yds in the air and was right in the bucket. I'd say he's got plenty of arm.

[td577]

Saw a replay of the long Cam Miller pass that was dropped. Ball went nearly 60 yds in the air and was right in the bucket. I'd say he's got plenty of arm.He is getting stronger. Didn't seem to have to load up as much as last year. That should make it easier as it won't take as long to make those throws.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[Professor Chaos]

Saw a replay of the long Cam Miller pass that was dropped. Ball went nearly 60 yds in the air and was right in the bucket. I'd say he's got plenty of arm.
He made a couple other throws that were incomplete that were fantastic I thought - just too good of coverage for his receivers to have enough room to make the catch. He's got all the arm strength he needs and his accuracy is plenty good even with some lapses every so often. If he can figure out how to work through progressions and read the whole field he'd be a tremendous passer for the FCS level IMO.

[heffray]

Alright, you bozos. Here is every Offensive play from the Maine game. I took the liberty of calling out when it was a clearly designed run call, a clearly designed pass call, or an RPO where the QB had an option to hand it off, keep and run, or keep and pass (any playaction from under center was a designed pass play)…

Note: I also included a few plays where a penalty (and even 1 time out) negated a play, because I thought it would be interesting to see that data included.

Drive 1: 1st Quarter, 13:29-12:46 - Resulting in a Field Goal - NDSU 3, Maine 0
1st & 10 - Maine 14 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff middle to T. Williams for 3 yds - Run
2nd & 7 - Maine 11 - Shotgun - Fumbled Snap, C. Miller Recovered for -4 yds - N/A
3rd & 11 - Maine 15 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to J. Lippe for 6 yds - Pass

Drive 2: 1st Quarter, 9:41-8:57 - Resulting in a Punt - NDSU 3, Maine 0
1st & 10 - NDSU 21 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff left to T. Marshall for 0 yds - RPO Run
2nd & 10 - NDSU 21 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass deep middle INCOMPLETE to B. Henderson for 0 yds - Pass
3rd & 10 - NDSU 21 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right INCOMPLETE to E. Green for 0 yds - Pass

Drive 3: 1st Quarter, 5:52-4:06 - Resulting in a Field Goal - NDSU 6, Maine 0
1st & 10 - Maine 23 - Center - C. Miller handoff middle to B. Kpeenu for 1 yds - Run
2nd & 9 - Maine 22 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep left (Maine Penalty, Neutral Zone Infraction) for 5 yds - RPO Run
2nd & 4 - Maine 17 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 3 yds - RPO Run
3rd & 1 - Maine 14 - Center - C. Miller toss left to T. Williams for a TOUCHDOWN (NDSU Penalty, Holding) for 14 yds - Run
3rd & 9 - Maine 22 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right INCOMPLETE to J. Lippe for 0 yds - Pass

Drive 4: 1st-2nd Quarter, 1:24-11:37 - Resulting in a Turnover on downs - NDSU 6, Maine 0
1st & 10 - NDSU 17 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to E. Green (Maine Penalty, Personal Foul) for 16 yds - RPO Pass
1st & 10 - NDSU 48 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass middle COMPLETE to Z. Mathis for 21 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 31 - Center - C. Miller handoff sweep right to R. Nelson for 12 yds - Run
1st & 10 - Maine 19 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass middle COMPLETE to J. Stoeffel (NDSU Penalty, Personal Foul) for 17 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 17 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 4 yds - RPO Run
2nd & 6 - Maine 13 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPELTE to O. Johnson for 9 yds - Pass
1st & G - Maine 4 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 3 yds - Run
2nd & G - Maine 1 - Center - C. Miller keep middle for 0 yds - Run
3rd & G - Maine 1 - Center - C. Miller keep middle for 0 yds - Run
4th & G - Maine 1 - Center - C. Miller handoff middle to T. Marshall for 0 yds - Run

Drive 5: 2nd Quarter, 9:24-4:23 - Resulting in a Field Goal - NDSU 9, Maine 0
1st & 10 - NDSU 47 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff sweep right to E. Green for 1 yds - Run
2nd & 9 - NDSU 48 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to R. Nelson for 7 yds - Pass
3rd & 2 - Maine 45 - Shotgun - No Play (NDSU Penalty, False Start) for 0 yds - N/A
3rd & 7 - 50 - Shotgun - C. Miller scramble middle for 10 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 40 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff to C. Payton pass deep left INCOMPLETE to J. Lippe for 0 yds - Pass
2nd & 10 - Maine 40 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 3 yds - RPO Run
3rd & 7 - Maine 37 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass left COMPLETE to Z. Mathis for 11 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 26 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to J. Stoeffel for 12 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 14 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass left COMPLETE to Z. Mathis (NDSU Penalty, Ineligible Reciever downfield) for 5 yds - Pass
1st & 15 - Maine 19 - Center - C. Miller pass left INCOMPLETE to C. Williams for 0 yds - Pass
2nd & 15 - Maine 19 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff middle to T. Marshall for 6 yds - Run
3rd & 9 - Maine 13 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right INCOMPLETE to J. Stoeffel for 0 yds - Pass

Drive 6: 2nd Quarter, 2:29-0:55 - Resulting in a Touchdown - NDSU 16, Maine 0
1st & 10 - Maine 48 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff sweep right to R. Nelson for 2 yds - Run
2nd & 8 - Maine 46 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to Z. Mathis for 10 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 36 - Shotgun - C. Miller scramble middle for 14 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 22 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff middle to T. Williams for 5 yds - RPO Run
2nd & 5 - Maine 17 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 10 yds - Run
1st & G - Maine 7 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right INCOMPLETE to Z. Mathis (Maine Penalty, Pass Interference) for 0 yds - Pass
1st & G - Maine 2 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep left for a TOUCHDOWN for 2 yds - RPO Run

Drive 7: 3rd Quarter, 15:00-8:27 - Resulting in a Touchdown - NDSU 23, Maine 0
1st & 10 - NDSU 25 - Center - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to J. Lippe for 11 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - NDSU 36 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to B. Lance for 7 yds - RPO Pass
2nd & 3 - NDSU 43 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass left COMPLETE to E. Green for 12 yds - RPO Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 45 - Shotgun - C. Miller handoff right to T. Marshall for 12 yds - RPO Run
1st & 10 - Maine 33 - Center - C. Miller handoff middle to T. Marshall for 6 yds - Run
2nd & 4 - Maine 27 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass left COMPLETE to R. Nelson for 8 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 19 - Shotgun - C. Miller pass right COMPLETE to J. Stoeffel for 5 yds - RPO Pass
2nd & 5 - Maine 14 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 2 yds - RPO Run
3rd & 3 - Maine 12 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 8 yds - Run
1st & G - Maine 4 - Shotgun - No Play (NDSU Penalty, False Start) for 0 yds - N/A
1st & G - Maine 9 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 3 yds - Run
2nd & G - Maine 6 - Shotgun - C. Miller keep middle for 5 yds - Run
3rd & G - Maine 1 - Shotgun - C. Miller scramble middle for 1 yds - Pass

Drive 8: 3rd Quarter, 6:46-4:21 - Resulting in a Fake Punt and Turnover on downs - NDSU 23, Maine 0
1st & 10 - NDSU 45 - Shotgun - C. Payton keep middle for 14 yds - Run
1st & 10 - Maine 41 - Center - C. Payton handoff middle to T. Marshall for 1 yds - Run
2nd & 9 - Maine 40 - Shotgun - C. Payton scramble middle (NDSU Penalty, Holding) for 40 yds - RPO Pass
2nd &18 - Maine 49 - Shotgun - C. Payton keep middle for 17 yds - Run
3rd & 1 - Maine 32 - Shotgun - C. Payton keep middle (NDSU Penalty, Illegal block to the back) for 5 yds - RPO Run
3rd & 5 - Maine 36 - Shotgun - C. Payton pass middle INCOMPLETE to E. Green for 0 yds - Pass

Drive 9: 3rd Quarter, 4:00-1:22 - Resulting in a Touchdown - NDSU 30, Maine 0
1st & 10 - Maine 30 - Shotgun - C. Payton pass right COMPLETE to Z. Mathis for 20 yds - Pass
1st & G - Maine 10 - Shotgun - C. Payton handoff middle to T. Williams for 7 yds - RPO Run
2nd & G - Maine 3 - Shotgun - C. Payton keep left for -3 yds - RPO Run
3rd & G - Maine 6 - Shotgun - C. Payton scramble middle for 4 yds - Pass
4th & G - Maine 2 - Shotgun - C. Payton keep middle (NDSU Timeout called as play started) for N/A yds - Run
4th & G - Maine 2 - Shotgun - C. Payton keep left for a TOUCHDOWN for 2 yds - Run

Drive 10: 4th Quarter, 13:46-13:10 - Resulting in a Touchdown - NDSU 37, Maine 0
1st & 10 - NDSU 41 - Shotgun - C. Payton handoff left to T. Williams for -2 yds - Run
2nd & 12 - NDSU 39 - Shotgun - C. Payton scramble right for 61 yds - Pass

Drive 11: 4th Quarter, 5:59-0:27 - Resulting in a Touchdown - NDSU 44, Maine 7
1st & 10 - NDSU 41 - Shotgun - C. Payton handoff middle to B. Kpeenu for 6 yds - Run
2nd & 4 - NDSU 47 - Center - C. Payton pass left COMPLETE to F. Diggins for 8 yds - Pass
1st & 10 - Maine 45 - Center - C. Payton handoff left to B. Kpeenu for 18 yds - Run
1st & 10 - Maine 27 - Shotgun - C. Payton handoff middle to O. Johnson for 3 yds - Run
2nd & 7 - Maine 24 - Center - C. Payton handoff middle to B. Kpeenu for 3 yds - Run
3rd & 4 - Maine 21 - Shotgun - C. Payton pass left COMPLETE to C. Harris for 12 yds - Pass
1st & G - Maine 9 - Center - P. Anderson handoff middle to B. Kpeenu for 7 yds - Run
1st & G - Maine 2 - Center - P. Anderson handoff middle to B. Kpeenu for 1 yds - Run
1st & G - Maine 1 - Center - P. Anderson handoff middle to O. Johnson for a TOUCHDOWN for 1 yds - Run

With the benefit of a spreadsheet, I broke down some of the data I’m interested in:
Total Run plays: 41 for 190yds, 4.75yd avg
Designed Run plays (not RPOs): 28 for 145yds, 5.17yd avg
QB Run plays: 18 for 83yds, 4.61yd avg
QB Designed Run plays (not RPOs): 10 for 62yds, 6.2yd avg
QB scrambling Pass plays: 6 for 130yds, 21.67yd avg

I also broke them down by QB vs other runners:
Miller - RPO Runs: 6 for 19yds, 3.16yd avg | Designed Runs: 7 for 29yds, 4.14yd avg | Scrambles: 3 for 25yds, 8.33yd avg
Payton - RPO Runs: 2 for 2yds, 1yd avg | Designed Runs: 3 for 33yds, 11yd avg | Scrambles: 3 for 105yds, 35yd avg
Other (RBs or WRs) - RPO Runs: 4 for 24yds, 6yd avg | Designed Runs: 18 for 83yds, 4.61yd avg

Some other interesting data points:
1. During our 17 called RPOs, the QB decided to pass it 5 times, 4 of those times were Miller, who went 4-4 for 40yds in those plays, and the other was Payton who scrambled 40yds for a TD that was called back due to holding (and a questionable call at that).
2. During the other 12 RPOs, the QB decided to hand it off 4 times for 24yds (6yd avg), and when they kept it the other 8 times, they went for 21yds (2.62yd avg).
3. When we call run plays without RPO, Roehl designed that the QB run the ball 10 times, and the RB or WR run it 18, 35% of our designed runs are QB and mostly to the inside. When a QB decides to run it because no one is open, the results are much better at 21yds per play.

...

[heffray]

Here’s what I’m willing to say based on the data:

35% of QB designed run plays is too much when you have RBs and WRs who can play. RPO QB keepers seem less effective than RPO handoffs or pass plays, so when RPO is called, our QBs should be coached to lean on other players or pass plays.

Some other things I noticed rewatching that game… The halftime score should have been much bigger, but not 35-0 as I may have said in a post or 2… that said, the halftime score would probably have been a lot worse if our Defense hadn’t started our 2 of our first drives inside Maine’s redzone (or just outside it). Take away those 3 points and it’s a 10-0 halftime lead and for some reason that seems WAY worse than a 16-0 halftime lead. That said, the although there were situational play calls that were atrocious during drives 4 and 7, Roehl’s playcalling was definitely not as bad as I was feeling while watching the game from section 2. I’ll gladly own up to that. I still do not think what we saw on Saturday was good enough to beat SDSU and probably 1 or 2 other Valley teams, so I’ll also say that.

Last thing… Cam was great, reliable, effective, I love the guy. But in rewatching the game, Cole really stands out. He’s got something special, and he CAN throw the ball. It really just reinforces my belief that he should be the starter.

Alright. Flame away…

[TAILG8R]

All I can say right now is holy hell Heffray. Lol

You did it. You crazy son of a bitch you did it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXBJRz_33Y8&ab_channel=CanberkTunakan



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[TAILG8R]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0Wf2RbjSl4&ab_channel=MovieQuotables

[GreenfieldBison]

Where can we download the PowerPoint deck?


Nice work heff!

[Professor Chaos]

I will say if there was ever a week to give Tyler Roehl a break for being less than at his best last week would've been the one.

[Son of a Bison]

And our offense was fantastic this week. Bison will build on it.


I will say if there was ever a week to give Tyler Roehl a break for being less than at his best last week would've been the one.

[steelbison]

And our offense was fantastic this week. Bison will build on it.

2nd half was very good. 1st half? Not so much.


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[bruinbison]

Maine trails Rhode Island 34-17 in the 4th quarter.
Rhode Island lost 42-35 to Georgia State last weekend

[El_Chapo]

game over. 0-3

0-5 for our opponents now