A GSU fans observation of why NDSU stays at the top of FCS! 4 main points

[GSUsTALON]

There are 4 basic things I envy about the NDSU football program from a GSU fan's observations.

1. Your choice of Head Coach and his staff
2. NDSUs consistency which mainly comes from #1 and your great execution on both sides of the ball.
3.NDSUs AD that stays with what works and doesn't, understands what works and doesn't change Offensive types change every 4-5 years which also leads to consistency!
4. Your Recruiting - The players that NDSU recruit understand what they are going to do on NDSUs offense, your winning tradition and that leads back to (consistency.) They don't have to worry that you're going to change to a *(completely new offense) * that they are not suited for and have to be retrained that takes time!

[HerdBot]

Good points. We actually kind of mirror Georgia Southern option days, running a unique offense. It's a pretty easy formula. When you get in the playoffs, trying to prep for a pro style, west coast offense or an option team in 7 days is quite a challenge. Even more so when you have to travel during the playoffs. That's why Kennesaw State had early success.
We used to run the veer and I don't think it's a championship winning formula these days with the crazy fast linebackers, but the uniqueness will guarantee being competitive on a short week. How do you even put together a practice squad to run the option or WCO?

We've done a good job of retaining our coaches and when we lose an entire staff like Bohl and Klieman, we keep a few guys and make sure they keep they systems in place. Make the coaches learn the systems, not the player learning a new system. Don't fix something that aint broken.

Recruiting has always been good but it's not like we go out and land 4 star kids. We develop players the old school way and redshirt most of them. We sprinkle in a few transfers but it's mostly 5 year players. A 23 year old red shirt senior will typically beat the shit out of an 18 year old 4 star kid. They are bigger, stronger, more experienced and smarter. It's almost like having dad strength.

[THEsocalledfan]

The geographic isolation, while terrible for an FBS invite, is a huge secret to success the national football landscape just doesn't understand. When you have only 1 D1 program in MN and WI, it opens a recruiting pipeline for those who don't get Gopher and Badger offers. Then, you couple that with the cream of the crop from ND and SD, and a few Frost/Husker misses in NE, and this is what you have!

[HerdBot]

The geographic isolation, while terrible for an FBS invite, is a huge secret to success the national football landscape just doesn't understand. When you have only 1 D1 program in MN and WI, it opens a recruiting pipeline for those who don't get Gopher and Badger offers. Then, you couple that with the cream of the crop from ND and SD, and a few Frost/Husker misses in NE, and this is what you have!

The Minnesota High School All Star Game had 7 Bison players. That's just crazy

[Hammerhead]

NDSU also seems to give non-starters more playing time like when we sub in all of the D-line at once like a hockey line change.

[IndyBison]

The geographic isolation, while terrible for an FBS invite, is a huge secret to success the national football landscape just doesn't understand. When you have only 1 D1 program in MN and WI, it opens a recruiting pipeline for those who don't get Gopher and Badger offers. Then, you couple that with the cream of the crop from ND and SD, and a few Frost/Husker misses in NE, and this is what you have!

Indiana (6.8m) and Minnesota (5.7m) have relatively similar populations. Indiana has 3 P5 schools and 1 G5 school. Granted one of the P5 schools doesn't recruit Indiana any heavier than other states so you could remove them from this analysis. That's still 2 more FBS schools theoretically getting first choice of recruits. Now add in Wisconsin (5.9m) and you have almost double the population and still 1 fewer FBS school. That's a huge advantage for NDSU over Indiana State (another others). If you compare Ohio (Youngstown State) to MN/WI you now have similar populations, but you have 7 FBS schools compared to 2. Ohio high school football is outstanding, but that's still a challenge for Youngstown State. UND, USD, and SDSU have the same geographic advantage as NDSU so they are the biggest threat to this advantage.

[OrygunBison]

Indiana (6.8m) and Minnesota (5.7m) have relatively similar populations. Indiana has 3 P5 schools and 1 G5 school. Granted one of the P5 schools doesn't recruit Indiana any heavier than other states so you could remove them from this analysis. That's still 2 more FBS schools theoretically getting first choice of recruits. Now add in Wisconsin (5.9m) and you have almost double the population and still 1 fewer FBS school. That's a huge advantage for NDSU over Indiana State (another others). If you compare Ohio (Youngstown State) to MN/WI you now have similar populations, but you have 7 FBS schools compared to 2. Ohio high school football is outstanding, but that's still a challenge for Youngstown State. UND, USD, and SDSU have the same geographic advantage as NDSU so they are the biggest threat to this advantage.

This is a great point that has occurred to me as well. It is also why we won't drastically upgrade our talent level by going FBS but will easily add more depth with those extra scholarships.

[JMB]

NDSU also seems to give non-starters more playing time like when we sub in all of the D-line at once like a hockey line change.

I think this is a massive advantage, and why we seem to ramp it up at playoff time. I suspect a fair number of our opponents run out of steam, or their backup players are a significant drop off.

Additionally, we are not often not a team of "stars". Meaning that we usually don't rely on one dude to carry the entire team. Hell look at our running back room this year.

[IndyBison]

This is a great point that has occurred to me as well. It is also why we won't drastically upgrade our talent level by going FBS but will easily add more depth with those extra scholarships.

That would remain to be seen. Since we are probably fairly competitive in the MWC or MAC with the current team even if there is only an increase in depth the Bison will still do pretty well. The question is can they improve enough to be a Boise State or UCF or Cincinnati or Houston type program. I think they very well could, but I'm also smart enough to know it's not automatic.

[HerdBot]

Indiana (6.8m) and Minnesota (5.7m) have relatively similar populations. Indiana has 3 P5 schools and 1 G5 school. Granted one of the P5 schools doesn't recruit Indiana any heavier than other states so you could remove them from this analysis. That's still 2 more FBS schools theoretically getting first choice of recruits. Now add in Wisconsin (5.9m) and you have almost double the population and still 1 fewer FBS school. That's a huge advantage for NDSU over Indiana State (another others). If you compare Ohio (Youngstown State) to MN/WI you now have similar populations, but you have 7 FBS schools compared to 2. Ohio high school football is outstanding, but that's still a challenge for Youngstown State. UND, USD, and SDSU have the same geographic advantage as NDSU so they are the biggest threat to this advantage.

That's some great insight.

[GSUsTALON]

NDSU also seems to give non-starters more playing time like when we sub in all of the D-line at once like a hockey line change.

That shows how well you recruited and how well the coaches did their job. Letting a freshman or even a junior the early games sub out for the starter means brings lot in trust that they can do the job knowing that the fans of both teams are watching you and the distraction of noise. GREAT TRAINING!

[EC8CH]

That's some great insight.

Feel like some kind of infographic with population density and D1 program density could illustrate this somehow.

[CyPanth]

Believe it or not, but I have become a Georgia Southern fan.

[GSUsTALON]

That would remain to be seen. Since we are probably fairly competitive in the MWC or MAC with the current team even if there is only an increase in depth the Bison will still do pretty well. The question is can they improve enough to be a Boise State or UCF or Cincinnati or Houston type program. I think they very well could, but I'm also smart enough to know it's not automatic.

NDSU would be competitive in any G5 Conference, and you would still do fine in recruiting

[TAILG8R]

NDSU would be competitive in any G5 Conference, and you would still do fine in recruiting

According to Sagarin at the end of this year there are only 4 G5 teams better than NDSU.

[EC8CH]

According to Sagarin at the end of this year there are only 4 G5 teams better than NDSU.

pfffffft, what 4?

[HerdBot]

NDSU would be competitive in any G5 Conference, and you would still do fine in recruiting

It's tough to say but I look at Marshall, who moved from D1-AA to the MAC and won the Conference Championship game 5 out of 6 years and got bored and moved to C-USA. Only 1 of those years was with Randy Moss. And it takes a few years for the increase in scholarships to show up on the field.

We beat a MAC school in 2006 with a mostly D2 recruited roster and beat Central Michigan a year later, 44-17. That CMU team won the MAC and eventually lost to Purdue in the Motor City Bowl by a field goal.

Our current teams are much better than the 2006-2007 versions.

[GSUsTALON]

Believe it or not, but I have become a Georgia Southern fan.

In the first 2 years of G5 FBS we did fine winning the conference in our first year as a G5 FBS taking the University of Georgia (UGA) into overtime and in the 2nd year GSU won our 1st Bowl game.
we did that with 85% FCS players. HC Fritz left after 2 years. we GSU went through 3 Head Coaches and had 2 different OCs in 6 years and GSU Stunk the G5 up. WE were using something called The Pistol Option that only used the QB Pitch read and it wasn't a true T-Option system - again we sucked!

I GUESS WHAT I"M SAYING- WATCH TO SEE IF GSU KEEPS GETTING BETTER AFTER 2 YEARS BEFORE YOU BECOME A GSU FAN. I WOULDNT WANT YOU KEEPING UP WITH A SUCKY TEAM!

PARTY ON CyPanth

TALON

[Hammerhead]

Another plus related to lack of nearby FBS schools is we can attract better walk-ons in a Rudy-type scenario where their dream is to be a Bison even if they could get more playing time somewhere else with a partial scholarship. I doubt there are many kids in Ohio who dream of playing for Youngstown State over Ohio State.

[ByeSonBusiness]

Another plus related to lack of nearby FBS schools is we can attract better walk-ons in a Rudy-type scenario where their dream is to be a Bison even if they could get more playing time somewhere else with a partial scholarship. I doubt there are many kids in Ohio who dream of playing for Youngstown State over Ohio State.

There aren't many kids in ND period though.

[Bisonator98]

I'd take the MAC invite if it came, run that conference for a few years and hopefully get a better offer! Best part of the MAC would be staying near our recruiting base. Worst part is obviously maction, tuesday night FB........yuck

[IndyBison]

I'd take the MAC invite if it came, run that conference for a few years and hopefully get a better offer! Best part of the MAC would be staying near our recruiting base. Worst part is obviously maction, tuesday night FB........yuck

MACtion is only 3-4 games of 12. I'd be willing to bet NDSU would be the ideal team for ESPN to feature especially at home in those games. The games may not sell out but even a 10-12k crowd would be awesome for them.

[Bisonator98]

MACtion is only 3-4 games of 12. I'd be willing to bet NDSU would be the ideal team for ESPN to feature especially at home in those games. The games may not sell out but even a 10-12k crowd would be awesome for them.

Yeah I could live with it, would be nice to get some ESPN games during the regular season. I think we'd be able to get some games scheduled with B10 and B12 teams if we were in the MAC too.

[IndyBison]

Yeah I could live with it, would be nice to get some ESPN games during the regular season. I think we'd be able to get some games scheduled with B10 and B12 teams if we were in the MAC too.

Definitely and possibly even host. IU and Purdue occasionally do home and home with local MAC teams. Looked at a few of the MAC teams from last year:

Kent State - at Texas A&M, at Iowa, at Maryland
Miami - at Minnesota
Ohio - vs Syracuse, at Northwestern
Northern Illinois - at Georgia Tech, at Michigan
Central Michigan - at Missouri, at LSU
Toledo - at Notre Dame, at Colorado State

The benefit of the current MAC schools is they are fairly close with Northern Illinois and Buffalo being the outliers. But Buffalo is only 3 hours from Akron/Kent State. Ball State is within 4-5 hours of every other school. Northern Illinois to Ohio U is about 8 hours and NIU to Buffalo is 9.5 hours. NDSU is just under 9 hours from NIU. That will be the challenge.

[ndsubison1]

Jim Kramer and some of the best OL prospects in the country are in the midwest!

[TAILG8R]

pfffffft, what 4?

Louisiana(1 spot ahead)
Houston(4 spots ahead)
Boise State(10 spots ahead)
Cincinnati(which will be P5 next year)

[ByeSonBusiness]

Jim Kramer and some of the best OL prospects in the country are in the midwest!

I think its important that North Dakota is remote. Nobody recruits here. That means we will get some kids (Wentz) that would probably end up FBS/P5 if he was from somewhere else.

Then you got the surrounding states with 1 FBS school at most. They aren't going to identify every good kid and some kids are good enough for what NDSU needs but not for what the P5 schools are trying to do.

This positions NDSU pretty well. Keep the best kids at home + identify hidden gems/P5 misfits/etc

[Kevin]

5. the playbook thread

[GSUsTALON]

Another plus related to lack of nearby FBS schools is we can attract better walk-ons in a Rudy-type scenario where their dream is to be a Bison even if they could get more playing time somewhere else with a partial scholarship. I doubt there are many kids in Ohio who dream of playing for Youngstown State over Ohio State.

I don't think you would have to place a lot of worries on walk-ons.

1. NDSU because of their coaching, offensive, defensive, talent and WINNING CONCISTANCY would still be able to recruit in the same areas you have been and for players that want a shot at a great regular season and a bowl game, NDSU would be very enticing to them outside your standard recruiting area.

2. NDSU also has the advantage of beating G5 & P5 FBS schools with FCS talent. When recruiting you can say- "If the Bison can beat FBS schools with superior coaching and FCS talent Imagin what we could do with your talent!!!"

[CyPanth]

In the first 2 years of G5 FBS we did fine winning the conference in our first year as a G5 FBS taking the University of Georgia (UGA) into overtime and in the 2nd year GSU won our 1st Bowl game.
we did that with 85% FCS players. HC Fritz left after 2 years. we GSU went through 3 Head Coaches and had 2 different OCs in 6 years and GSU Stunk the G5 up. WE were using something called The Pistol Option that only used the QB Pitch read and it wasn't a true T-Option system - again we sucked!

I GUESS WHAT I"M SAYING- WATCH TO SEE IF GSU KEEPS GETTING BETTER AFTER 2 YEARS BEFORE YOU BECOME A GSU FAN. I WOULDNT WANT YOU KEEPING UP WITH A SUCKY TEAM!

PARTY ON CyPanth

TALON



Hoping to make a few games, starting with the one in Week 2 at Nebraska. I'll be missing the Iowa State/Iowa game for the second year in a row to attend a game in Lincoln. That's a big hint of why I'm now a GSU fan. But just for next year.

[GSUsTALON]

Hoping to make a few games, starting with the one in Week 2 at Nebraska. I'll be missing the Iowa State/Iowa game for the second year in a row to attend a game in Lincoln. That's a big hint of why I'm now a GSU fan. But just for next year.

I thank you for considering going to the Nebraska vs GSU game in Nebraska, but you must remember the whole GSU coaching staff has been replaced\ to run a west coast offense. I don't know if we have a QB or players to run that offense in the first year. If you live more than 5 hours away, I would just watch it on one of the ESPN sites un;ess you just want to have a night out and party.

I do plan on going because my x-wife's family lives in Omaha.

WARNING ABOUT NEBASKA TICKETS IN LINCON.

If youre really going to go to the Nebraska game get your tickets from the official GSU site. Ive been to Lincon before, and they sell out their stadium every year. If you are positive youre going let me know and we will try to get seats together.

[Bison Dan]

I thank you for considering going to the Nebraska vs GSU game in Nebraska, but you must remember the whole GSU coaching staff has been replaced\ to run a west coast offense. I don't know if we have a QB or players to run that offense in the first year. If you live more than 5 hours away, I would just watch it on one of the ESPN sites un;ess you just want to have a night out and party.

I do plan on going because my x-wife's family lives in Omaha.

WARNING ABOUT NEBASKA TICKETS IN LINCON.

If youre really going to go to the Nebraska game get your tickets from the official GSU site. Ive been to Lincon before, and they sell out their stadium every year. If you are positive youre going let me know and we will try to get seats together.

Should be a easy game for you as the Hawkes play them the week before and will soften them up!

[El_Chapo]

it's easy to get Nebraska tickets now. Lawrence Phillips or Rozier aren't playing

[GreenfieldBison]

it's easy to get Nebraska tickets now. Lawrence Phillips or Rozier aren't playing


Have you actually TRIED to purchase a ticket there or is this just some weak ass assumption? According to this site: https://collegefootballnews.com/gallery/college-football-attendance-5-year-average-for-every-school you are full of ... the usual.

Notice it says "attendance", not "sales".

[CyPanth]

I thank you for considering going to the Nebraska vs GSU game in Nebraska, but you must remember the whole GSU coaching staff has been replaced\ to run a west coast offense. I don't know if we have a QB or players to run that offense in the first year. If you live more than 5 hours away, I would just watch it on one of the ESPN sites un;ess you just want to have a night out and party.

I do plan on going because my x-wife's family lives in Omaha.

WARNING ABOUT NEBASKA TICKETS IN LINCON.

If youre really going to go to the Nebraska game get your tickets from the official GSU site. Ive been to Lincon before, and they sell out their stadium every year. If you are positive youre going let me know and we will try to get seats together.



Perhaps I know a little something about the new offense for GSU. And maybe I will have a ticket waiting for me at Will Call. I've enjoyed bantering with Talon over the years, but now it may get personal!

[GSUsTALON]

Perhaps I know a little something about the new offense for GSU. And maybe I will have a ticket waiting for me at Will Call. I've enjoyed bantering with Talon over the years, but now it may get personal!

CyPanth -"I know a little something about the new offense for GSU. And maybe I will have a ticket waiting for me at Will Call. I've enjoyed bantering with Talon over the years, but now it may get personal!"


So, you're a Nebraska fan like my wife? This is not a putdown Cy! Knowing the Xs & Os on paper is a lot different than executing them with a new Head Coach, offensive coordinator staff, and teaching it to the players in the short spring and summer practices. This offense is totally different than GSU has ever run. If you know what we are running can you tell me what sites that you know of that diagrams the offensive plays??? This is just for me to keep up with you Cy so you dont beat me to death with your BANTER! [-)